Crass turned capitalist sell-out fuckheads

[Kim Chee]

I didn't mean for people to take it literally when I say "artists have to eat too". Yes, they can get on foodstamps, fly cardboard and beg as well to get that food. They also are going to want a place to live, a nice car, boob job for the old lady and a vacation. Also, even if the music is old, they should be able to sell it. Royalties, yes! I wonder how much awesome music is out there that you will never hear because it sits in somebody's private collection and somebody out there is saying, "fuck the fans" and is all pissed off at how their art is being distributed their seeing a dime. Sure, I think an artist as well as a doctor, politician and holy men should be the financially poorest people on the planet, motivated not by cash but by the sheer joy of the impact they can have on their fellow man. Unfortunately, I don't run shit here.

 

[ipoPua]

That moral judgements are the foundations of governments. And not just pragmatic, situational ethics. But an absolutist and fascist slave morality. That greed is wrong not merely in case where it has negative consequences, but always wrong even if benign not matter what.

In essence you are the glarring hypocrite for applying a protestant, fundementalist morality to an artist whos primary thesis is anarchism in which they are exemplifying. Who made you the authority of right and wrong?

So you either renounce anarchism in which you would be completely illogical in associating with the band itself and thus pointless in caring about the matter at all, or renounce your demands for conformity.

Que the vapid banality of punk rock politics.

firstly, this is not a case of benign greed, this is case of one small group of individuals completely destroying an ideal, happy, established exchange between fans and artists who don't have a problem with free distribution of their music. that is not benign. secondly, there's a difference between anarchy as a sociopolitical system based in self-governance and freedom from the destructive consequences of industry, and anarchy as a nihilistic concept of aimless chaos. both have merit, the first is an ideal and the second is a fact, but just because we all have the option of being scumfucks within the fundamental self-devastation of life doesnt mean we can expect not to be held to the moral standards of people who understand the idea of the golden rule, and minding your own business when it comes to the harmless actions of others that have no real impact on your own life. anyone observing this example of selfcontradiction and hypocrisy has the right to spout venom at the name of crass, because it goes against everything theyve always claimed to stand for, and everything true punk is about in general. thirdly, i am not an anarchist and never claimed as much, i'm a fourier communist and i dont have to agree with an individual's stated morals to have an issue with them going completely against said morals in their actions. hypocrisy is a wrong that transcends belief. and i'm not demanding conformity, if they wanna take down their music from the site they have every right to do so, what they do not have the right to do is dismantle a strong system of free trade from bands who are more interested in having their music heard and positively impacting lives than lining their pockets with benjamin and co. THAT is fascism my friend, tearing down a society(and society this site was) because you see it as a threat to your personal interests. THAT is demanding conformity, THAT is hypocrisy, THAT is the foundation of amoral governance. calling them dicks for fucking with something completely harmless and -actually- benign, is not.



and mmmichael, they still do sell their music. as i've said several times by this point, they absolutely had the right to demand their music be taken down. getting the whole site shut down is where i have a problem. also see what thirtydollar said, they recorded some shit for fun three decades ago, its pretty pretentious to think they ought to be able to live highclass off something they did so long ago, that a billion other people have done without demanding such egregious compensation for it. but still, if they wanna be stuckup pennypinching twats they have the right. its fucking with the system of free share by other groups that dont need the dollar where they go beyond that right and earn the title of self-centered shitbags.

p.s. mad respect, just cos we disagree doesnt mean i have a problem with either of you. snoogans

 

[ped]

firstly, this is not a case of benign greed, this is case of one small group of individuals completely destroying an ideal, happy, established exchange between fans and artists who don't have a problem with free distribution of their music.

So you're cool with greed in some instances? Could you give an example?

doesnt mean we can expect not to be held to the moral standards

Whos moral standards and why?

and minding your own business when it comes to the harmless actions of others that have no real impact on your own life.

Why?

true punk is about in general.

True punk? Circle A? Selling impressionable teens culture?

thirdly, i am not an anarchist and never claimed as much

That is this bands prima facie. Why bother with them in the first place then?

i'm a fourier communist and i dont have to agree with an individual's stated morals to have an issue with them going completely against said morals in their actions.

You're moral expectancy is consistancy and rational purity. Theirs is not.

what they do not have the right to do is dismantle a strong system of free trade

What free trade? You're taking everything and giving nothing.

from bands who are more interested in having their music heard and positively impacting lives than lining their pockets with benjamin and co.

They're not living up to your standards. You don't live up to Muslim standards. That's cool but why be mad about it?

THAT is fascism my friend, tearing down a society(and society this site was) because you see it as a threat to your personal interests. THAT is demanding conformity, THAT is hypocrisy, THAT is the foundation of amoral governance. calling them dicks for fucking with something completely harmless and -actually- benign, is not.

And yet they were pioneers in molding and selling punk identity.

 

[ipoPua]

did you read anything i said or are you just scanning for little snippets, halfsentences that you can misrepresent and ignore the actual meaning behind? cos it's clearly the latter. everything you asked and said in that last post was either already answered, or a complete misinterpretation of the bits you quoted from me. im cool with greed where it doesnt hurt anyone. if someone wants to build up their dragons lair by making a bunch of crap and selling it at no harm to anybody else, i couldnt give a shit. like i already said a million times and i hate repeating myself, the infringement of rights is in shutting down the site and blocking the trade between less materialistic bands and their fans. who's moral standards was answered in the end of the sentence you cut in half. crass is not practicing self-governance, they're practicing fascist governance in shitting all over the trade of others. like i already said, im not talking about them taking down their music, can you read a sentence of more than 5 words or what? im talking about them getting the site shut down. and the free trade of the other bands. the exchange is this-the band gives the music, the fans give the support in going to shows, spreading the word, etc. and when i say true punk i mean being more interested in freedom and self-expression than in mindless profit. read a full fucking sentence next time, you completely misread almost everything you quoted.

 

[ped]

did you read anything i said or are you just scanning for little snippets, halfsentences that you can misrepresent and ignore the actual meaning behind? cos it's clearly the latter. everything you asked and said in that last post was either already answered, or a complete misinterpretation of the bits you quoted from me. im cool with greed where it doesnt hurt anyone. if someone wants to build up their dragons lair by making a bunch of crap and selling it at no harm to anybody else, i couldnt give a shit. like i already said a million times and i hate repeating myself, the infringement of rights is in shutting down the site and blocking the trade between less materialistic bands and their fans. who's moral standards was answered in the end of the sentence you cut in half. crass is not practicing self-governance, they're practicing fascist governance in shitting all over the trade of others. like i already said, im not talking about them taking down their music, can you read a sentence of more than 5 words or what? im talking about them getting the site shut down. and the free trade of the other bands. the exchange is this-the band gives the music, the fans give the support in going to shows, spreading the word, etc. and when i say true punk i mean being more interested in freedom and self-expression than in mindless profit. read a full fucking sentence next time, you completely misread almost everything you quoted.

You gotta expect that with anarchists. That's why most people want goverment....to prevent that kind of thing.

Makes you rethink those cool punk patches doesn't it!

 

[ipoPua]

how many times you gonna edit your post, guy? your argument is empty. youre more focused on ostensibly witty little quips about patches i dont wear than responding to anything i've actually said.

edit- and the reason im mad about it, as ive said far too many times by now, is because theyre fucking with other peoples lives by shutting down this site. blather all you want about the relativity of morality, its a pretty little notion but the fact remains that screwing other people over for personal gain is just plain douching. im talking reality, not theoretical ideas of 'noone gets to say whats right and wrong'. youre right, i cant force my opinion on anyone that theyre assholes for fucking over all those other bands, but i -can- express it and anyone with any sense of idealism can agree.

 

[ped]

Yes sir massa I beez good fer ya, don't yell at me!

edit- and the reason im mad about it, as ive said far too many times by now, is because theyre fucking with other peoples lives by shutting down this site.

Probably because they see themselves as the victims fighting against the assholes.

 

[ipoPua]

Yes sir massa I beez good fer ya, don't yell at me!

clever. obviously i'm such a fascist for suggesting that crass mind their own business and leave the rest of the site alone

 

[ped]

Thanks. I hear that chic from Nausea is a big republican now too.

 

[graven]

Crass was a movement. It's over.

For them to be acting like this just proves that.

 

[Matt Derrick]

@ipopua & @ped, please keep the conversation civil and refrain from being so combative. it's just a discussion

 

[ped]

He started it

 

[Rotten Falafel]

Why?


They made art instead of growing food. You grew food instead of making art. You two can trade your efforts if you wish. If the artist doesn't trade he doesn't eat so you have the upper hand.

You want a feast of consumption without giving artists anything in return. And then they're the greedy bastards?

you can always make a trade or pay free price for something that you want. i think this will be the best from my point of view.
some people cant afford buying the records or in the places they are living is not possibile to find them and ordering them from the internet it is not an option also if you dont have a house and a bank account.
keep bussines out of punk.if u want to make bussines play something else.

 

[ped]

keep bussines out of punk.if u want to make bussines play something else.

Does punk really need more rules and regulations though?

Do they owe us a living? ......Punk rock consumers that is...lol. Maybe they've found ghetto life ain't so bad in their old age?!

 

[kickthatshit]

We act as if it's normal to be paid for your recorded music, but in fact, it's a tiny blip of history, beginning, and ending in the 20th century. Before that, musicians had to go out and perform, and today, the same is true - plus other options such as selling merch, etc. I have no pity for 'artists' who want to sit around and collect royalty checks. Get a job or learn to live without one; you're not special because you make art.

 

[bIackswan]

@ipopua & @ped, please keep the conversation civil and refrain from being so combative. it's just a discussion

this post is pathetic ^^

 

[DFA]

Yeah what about the artists who wanted to distribute their music for free on the anarcho-punk.net? And now they can't because crass fucked up hours and days of server uploads .
It just seems like they acted out of spite against forum users who just talk bad about them.
Steve charging 25 bucks for tickets at Slims (a clear channel owned venue mind you) was annoying, but this shit takes the cake.

 

[kevlar]

Everyone that has the albums should nuts make more copies and give them away. I'll even pay you for them.
Everyone sells out eventually...

 

[Earth]

wow, where does one even begin here??
fortunately or unfortunately... thirty years ago, i was buying Crass records as they became available at places like Ratcage Records in new yorks lower east side.
those recordings... especially the Bullshit Detector comps really opened our eyes and ears to say the least.
keep in mind, back then you got beat up for not being like everybody else.
today, with all this diversity bullshit, everthings become safe, homonginized... and its like, i mean we were still talking about the sex pistols back in 80, 81 and we felt punk was already dead then.
but Crass was more than just music, it was art, it was telling the truth, and they paid dearly for it.
by 1985, the dream was dead.
actually, movement... as correctly stated earlier here.
i still got all my Crass vinyl, and several CDs which were generously presented to me maybe 2, 3 years ago (along with another great band, The Subhumans) for safe keeping in this studio.
i suspect there was a very good reason for that.....
anyway, so let me get this straight:
someone decides to put all of the listed Crass records on line so anyone could have them for free.
steve or someone else finds out and doesnt like it, so they file some sort of old school complaint, and now the whole thing is shut down??
something is not kosher with this whole thing........
such an ungrateful generation, wanting everything for free.....
something we never got

 

[Benny]

Who cares!? There not 19 years old anymore! Eventually your liver gives out and you need healthcare. Once you get older and realize that you have to pay bills and you cant squat the rest of your life, it's fucking time to collect royalty checks. Do you think they are getting rich.........NO.

Look at all the hippies that grew up from the 60's and then joined the system. History repeats itself.