A reaction to the "Love is an Illusion" Thread.

[varis]

Making a separate thread because it kicked off some old thought patterns and I actually want advice.

Love... I've loved alot. I spent alot of my life trying to teach others how to love... I grew up reading love poems, my favorite play was Romeo and Juliet.

I had many loves.
Then I had this... Period of self exploration and self awareness. Of... Introspection that was triggered by achieving a Level of intamicy within someone's mind that most may never know or understand.

I studied psychology, neurology, biology, sexuality, flirting, gender, relationships, hypnosis, bdsm, cults, CEOs and companies, corporations, religion education infrastructure, and the military. Every structure I could think of I picked apart. I read alot of self help books and psychology texts.... And found common threads... And it completely destroyed my ideas of love.

When you can completely classify human behavior, predict outcomes of actions, change someones literal brain with words and images and locations and smells and tastes and touch. Create associations and attach yourself to them so that person only thinks of you... And you can do it it at will.... And you've realized this is what you've been subconsciously doing your entirely life... That you've systematically brainwashed people... That you have followed a formula that is tried and true and tested without realizing it... That you can do this with any person... Anyone...

What is love anymore?
What is life when everyone around you becomes... "Programmable" and classifiable.

When you know ALL the right words to say... All the right move to make, tailored to a person's individual psychology. When you can make a blank slate of someone separate then from the state they existed in before... make them want more of you. Make them addicted to you...

And you don't want any of this... You don't want to know that what you are doing is taking a person... And changing their mind. You are triggering chemicals in the brain with actions that you are now, entirely aware of...
What is love then...
What is life then...
I wish I could forget everything, but at the same time, I want to forget nothing.

The best times in my life, were before I knew exactly what we are doing to each other, and exactly how to replicate it with anyone.
And I no longer want o know that I know.

It all became meaningless. Empty.
Help me.

 

[Colinleath]

Maybe try

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As food for thought.

But at a minimum, keep sharing your story for those of us who have difficulty getting lovers to participate in our odd lifestyles. . .

You can help us think oh love isn't that great anyways.. . Or maybe help us figure out how to be more successful!


But if it's unconditional love, that's different than getting someone to love you.


So maybe go around doing that instead?

 

[phencyclidineenthusiast25]

I am puzzled by this. Are you reffering to an uncontrolable desire to purposefly mold people via manipulation, or an involuntairy influence that occurs in any relationship due to the nature of how humans socialize, learn, and interact. If this is a thing you just think you can't find love that will not turn into something else due to their proximity to you, then I think you should accept this is the nature of relationships.

Are you familiar with void/form duality that is so important to understanding the esoteric truths associated with Buddhist teachings? We are all contained within this dichotomy, so you can't really escape the fact that your lover and you are already contained within one another. It's honestly beautiful if you can learn to see it that way.

If you're just finding it difficult to not manipulate people into loving you or desiring you more.. uh.. that's probably not a thing you need to do at all, and if it's a habit it can be broken. Manipulation is a hindrance to finding love, not an asset.

All I know is, if love is an illusion, my partner and I are deeply wrapped up in this illusion with no desire to leave. I would not be the person manipulating her, but her manipulating me, if this were a thing ocurring, but I mean, what is manipulation? Is her becoming even further my idealized dream girl than she initially was a form of creating a fake love held up by lies? Nah. she's psychic and knows what to say to appeal to my deepest and most long-standing desires, inside and out of intimate physical stuff.

Those who decide love is nonsense , fake, illusory, and not worth a real discussion, are usually the real hopeless romantics in the room. I am lucky that I experinced a lot of unrelated hardship in losing everything I had, just to be completely ripped out of my miserable lonely confusion by a kindred spirit who may have well been a childhood friend, or a lover in a previous life. Is this an illusion, though? If this is an illusion, then everything is, I know that at least. The only reason I live this lifestyle is because she reinforced my instinct that my desire to reject the normal societal responsibilities, and instead just live and get as high as I want without feeling shame or guilt. Lack of judgment is such a powerful thing to hand someone, especially when it's such a foreign thing to not feel judged that you instantly realize this person is the only one in my life who is actually seeing the real me and not the weird annoying methed out trans girl with one eye who really should just leave town instead of finding solace in degenerate sex/drug parties with my only friend and not leave my room for 3 days straight, only coming out to declare how goddamn happy I am after the hedonism I experienced.

Love is so powerful it's hard to see it as illusory. I love intensely and passionately, so much so that people don't even like being around me sometimes bc I am just an intense person who is constantly in a state of existential confusion, wonder, bliss, or frustratingly trying to make sense of it. I use other people to process all this, so love and companionship are nessecary for me to stay at least partially sane. Don't fall into isolation, it's suicide for anyone like me, and you kinda sound like you might be maybe.

 

[Korvina]

Love is a really vague term, and means something different to everyone. The feelings many call love are just hormone reactions to stimulation, but the "love" you are describing that causes us to make choices to try not to hurt someone, to take care of them and have compassion for them is more about the choice and therefore should maybe be described as respect. We can choose to respect people and to continue respecting people the same way we can continue to trust even when someone is dishonest. No ones emotions/hormones can be stimulated into staying forever without respect being an equal part.

I think those who cannot seem to understand that love, respect, empathy and compassion are the ingredients to make what we deem "love" are those doomed to never find "true" "love".

 

[lazerskull]

I feel like "unconditional love" doesn't exist. Every single damn human is self motivated in some way.
The closest thing is maybe a mother's love for a child.
BUT... Even in my case... my mother's love is not unconditional. It is all conditional on the premise you do shit for her.
My Dad sort of ruined / spoiled her in that regard.

I think when it comes to adult relationships. The closest thing to "love" you can get is when two people are happier with each other than without each other. So they continually look for ways to make the other person happy.
As long as both are sincere then both will be satisfied and loved enough.
Furthermore we are all responsible for loving ourselves number one.
Try changing / loving yourself first. And you'll see how hard that is. Before trying to change / love someone else.