You are NOT a crusty.

[Adnil]

And I've heard way too many self-proclaimed "crusties" say "I don't care about labels, this is dumb, who cares, etc" when ive brought this point up elsewhere, but there's a simple solution for that: if you hate labels so much, well maybe stop labelling yourself? They could always start there lol

Labels are limiting and dividing us, so frankly I can support the typical "don't label me for I am an individual", because in reality we are all born as an original .
I don't necessarily believe that we naturally want to be liked by others therefore conform, but that we'd like to be accepted as who we are/choose to be and that is why we group up. People place themselves into these sub groups to avoid the negative feedback from those who don't agree to their lifestyle, appearance, music, etc. We place ourselves with those who understand, agree, and support us for the sake of being our inner selves in a safe environment. By creating more herds and placing guidelines and regulations to these herds we are merely teaching the young to modify themselves in order to hold a friend or two instead of learning to respect all for who they are. Yes, the scene was different back when I was still in diapers, but perhaps that can be seen as a high five for mankind. More people are becoming aware that not all dread kids in black are a threat, they have become so accepting to this and finding "the culture" interesting enough to learn more about it and want to hang with the kids. Maybe one day it's not going to be "oh look, here comes the crustie", but instead "Whoo, it's motherfucking Jerry!".

(I'm terrible at getting my point across so I'll stop at these two cents).

 

[Primitive]

Not this guy with the "crusties and a crust punk are different things" bullshit, I knew this was coming eventually. Crust punks have been called crusties ever since hellbastards ripper crust demo started the name, it's not until these mimicking dress up copycats came along that some people began thinking crustie and crust punk are two different things. Just cause someone is such a copy cat fake they don't actually want to be considered "a punk", doesnt mean they can just hijack that term. This world is just fucking insane seriously, idiocracy here we are!

 

[OstrichJockey]

Not this guy with the "crusties and a crust punk are different things" bullshit, I knew this was coming eventually. Crust punks have been called crusties ever since hellbastards ripper crust demo started the name, it's not until these mimicking dress up copycats came along that some people began thinking crustie and crust punk are two different things. Just cause someone is such a copy cat fake they don't actually want to be considered "a punk", doesnt mean they can just hijack that term. This world is just fucking insane seriously, idiocracy here we are!

So what would you call the crusties that don't want to be considered punk? Name it.

I'm simply here to learn.

 

[Primitive]

Surely not a crusty, it's a style of punk music. The term does not and has never actually meant "crust that builds up on yourself after going a long time without a bath" or whatever, that's always just been an inside joke that's always been around, was not supposed to be taken literally!! Lol

 

[Hillbilly Castro]

Got to say, going to guess you are a primitivist by your username, and should point out that intensely well defined words, labels, cultural borders is a distinctly civilized phenomenon. I do agree that there is something to be said for maintaining punk culture that isn't watered down.. punk is the antidote to the depression and displacement of being born into systems of power that are unreal, that deprive you of cultural meaning - whiteness, suburban life, middle class, masculinity, straightness. By being ugly, weird, trangressing the norm, you negate the powers you inherited and become a sissyboy, a class traitor, a white 'negro', etc. And when you have an economic system that turns this into a commodity, a fashion item, it deprives it of its power - creating genuine COUNTERculture. So I agree, we have to find ways to push that stupid shit out.

Generally this has manifested in calling people poseurs, endlessly arguing genre and labels in a useless way, etc. I think OP is in that category. I understand why you feel that way, and at the beginning of crusts cooptation in the 90's, I might have said the same thing. But now it's too late. We aren't the same crust punks that existed when Amebix was touring. It's a different time and place, and endlessly rehearsing some other time like theatre is useless and frankly, contrary to the same spirit of punk, in my opinion. I think we would do well to reflect a great deal, evolve, and start having discussions in the punk venues, houses and crews we inhabit about our history. How did fashion suck away a lot of punk spirit? Where are the crusties of yesterday? Why are they there? What has changed since Antischism? And most of all, where's the music? There aren't that many crust bands anymore. It may be time to take what we can - like scavengers, the species that will do the best when civilization falls - from crust and put it toward some new style made for NOW. Experiment, see who is awake and who is on the brink, and throw down at the shows and hold hard for your crew.. this world is doomed and we can do some cool shit anyway, even keep it limitedly positive. Don't stop what your doing.. just keep reflecting.

There is a good critique of ideology in here:https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jason-mcquinn-post-left-anarchy-leaving-the-left-behind#toc6

 

[Primitive]

Ironically I've been using the name "primitive" as an online alias before I actually got into anarcho-primitivism lol in fact I wasn't exclusively an anarcho-primitivist when i started this account lol strange how that worked i know but actually amebix *is* still touring. And there are actually *more* crust bands nowcthen there ever has been. The scene is actually pretty big. It's just that most of these so called crusties ain't trying to be part of it. The majority of actual crust punks live in doors and have jobs now unfortunately. Rather than starting a new style Id rather start a new scene (called warfux) but I the plans for that are stretched relatively long term. Another reason the scene isn't as tight as it should be: no real zine anymore. No zine no scene! Profane existance is still flourishing, but they've pretty much stopped issuing the zine (they have been signing anarcho-primitivist crust bands which shows a healthy new direction tho!) The crust scene was meant to be a culture of resistance however.

 

[Primitive]

But now that I actually am anarcho-primitivist I would change my name on here if I could :/

 

[MolotovMocktail]

Labels might be useful or bullshit or both. I don't claim to know much about crust punk or crusties but I am kind of a nerd so I'm going to analyze this issue from a linguistic standpoint.

"Crusty" may have originally meant someone who's into crust punk but now most people believe that crust punks and crusties are two different groups. Language evolves and words, especially slang, change meaning throughout history. If enough people think that "crusty" is a synonym for a traveling kid, that becomes the meaning.

I think instead of arguing about what "crusty" once meant, it makes more sense to accept the fact that the word now has a different meaning. You don't have to use the word but insisting that nearly everyone's usage of the word is incorrect seems kind of goofy.

 

[Hillbilly Castro]

"Correct language" has a very racist, classist, and colonialist history. It's like "get like us - because we know The Answer" . The person who claims to have the "real" definition positions themselves as a Lord of truth..

 

[Primitive]

It's easy to call it a "label" but really it's an entire music scene, culture, and community rooted in anarchist politics. It's not like "oh I'm a cowboy" or "oh I'm a hippy" or whatever the hell, it's a tight knit global scene. And that "correct language having racist and colonial roots" sounds like something you just pulled out of your ass. Correct language is primarily a fairly large focus and issue of importance for most marginalized groups actually, I have no idea where your idea is rooted in. Skinheads face a similar problem, most people think skinhead is synonymous with racism, but has a long history rooted in Jamaican culture. But that's also scene that will never give up its name, just like I don't think we should either.

 

[Hillbilly Castro]

Consider this article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/10/ghana-calls-end-queens-english
I am by no means "pulling it out of my ass" when I say that the obsession many westerners have with correctness is consistently used to oppress people, and this article is one example. In the case of hardline stances about words like "crusty" you aren't oppressing anyone, but there is a sort of holier-than-thou attitude underneath going around "correcting" people. Like I said, in the face of what crust punk has gone through since the 90's, it makes sense. But language is always correct. Always. You don't go around correcting people who say ACAB became the cops they say that about are not literally bastards / fatherless children. They use it that way and the word bastard took on a life of its own and no one has any ground to stand on if they say otherwise. Language is a breathing evolving thing that always changes.

It can be a tough call. I wouldn't say I was a skinhead in most of the US - England is different - because to most people that means racist thug. Finding a new word ain't so bad sometimes. It's like anarchist - I'm careful who I say I am an anarchist to, and when I say it. While I don't think we should disavow the use of the word crust, the fact is, the word has a life of its own that we exert relatively little control over.

 

[Primitive]

It's always had the same meaning, of course there be a motive to water down and abolish the crust scene, because it posed a major threat, and still can. If people are ignorant to what it means, well I'll do my best to correct that. And it really is an identity and a culture plus let alone an actual music genre not some kind of dictionary term people don't get right.

 

[Primitive]

And it's not like people are born incapable of actually checking out the music and bands, you'd think people's response would be "wow didn't even stop to realize that, got any good band recommendations? I guess I should at least check out the bands." How hard is it to look up bands these days, seriously! More people should get into crust period anyways.

 

[Primitive]

List of some good ones for the record: axegrinder, dystopia, skaven, instinct of survival, swordweilder, consume, state of fear, hellshock, warcollapse, guided cradle, wolfbrigade/Wolfpack, his hero is gone, nux vomica, misery, doom, extinction of mankind, hellkrusher, hiatus, ABC diablo, after the bombs, Appalachian terror unit, behind enemy lines, deviated instinct, visions of war, effigy, phobia, voidfiller, antimaster, cop on fire, disrupt, contagium, bombanfall... To name a small few. There are endless amaxing crust bands, and it's a damn good scene to get into!!

 

[Anagor]

I agree with @MolotovMocktail ... to the general public a word means what the general public thinks it means. You can fight that, explain what it really means, etc. Won't change a fuckin thing.

For example: for the general public a "hacker" is someone who breaks into computer systems, steals information, your credit card number, writes viruses and trojans, etc. In fact, "hacker" has a totally different meaning. But I gave up explaning that to people, it leads to nothing ...

When it comes to labels, ffs, I like to listen to Metal, Punk Folk, Rhythm&Bass, Dubstep, even Classical stuff sometimes. I wear stuff like I wore as I took my avatar picture, sometimes I wear all black, whatever. Why do you need a label or "conform" to some dresscode. When I would like to do I would wear a suit. What about it?

Just my 2 cents ...

 

[Tony Pro]

As a certified Babylonian, I'm learning a lot from this thread.

 

[WanderLost Radical]

Fuck labels I say. Why would I want to force myself to live only one way.

I consider them more of adjectives than labels. That being said, fuck labels, but thank god for adjectives!!

Labels have this restrictive meaning to it, while adjectives are merely used to describe something. Just because you say you're a punk, or a crusty, or a hippy doesnt mean you plan on always being one, or that you got all your punk/crusty/hippy points. It's just convenient to have a word describing what you are, or dress like.

 

[Odin]

I don't enjoy using labels on myself... or others because I see that as giving to much power to a word over a human life.

I try to remember that underneath all that "identity" people clothe themselves with, is a human being surviving in a world we all seem to be part of.
(I'm on planet earth most dayz...:

Words can be powerful.

They can change the perception of the masses, inspire good and bad,... start wars.

I have also been pondering the fractal nature of reality and even group behavior... such as the problem of racism, discrimination and bigotry at different levels of society and globally. I will try not to go to far off topic here but as see it relates to group discrimination and labels.


Well, I watched a documentary lately. About Albino's in African countries. (I forgot the specific one)...

It was a gut wrenching documentary. Stories of children who had arms cut off because "witchdoctors" said the albino parts have magical powers and will bring you wealth and success. Isolating the children on an island... calling them "white devils" and so forth. People even went as far as digging up graves and measures have to be taken such as sealing the resting place with concrete and rebar.

I found it confusing at first because I was trying to compare and understand it in terms of racism in other developed countries be it the states or wherever.

Yet this is an example where the power of words, of an insane "witchdoctor" or public figure who "takes authority" of labeling someone has caused evil and pain. If you take a label to seriously. If you delude yourself into believing in someone else's authority... you walk a thin line and hazard some horrible shit man.

Diving to far into that search for self identity... beyond the basic identity of being human is a very tricky process and can lead to some horrible stuff. Especially when large groups of people take someone else's word for authority against another group of people.

So I suppose that is why I say I don't "belong" or "identify". To me it is a process... that sooner or later has a potential to divide people, possibly in some horrible ways. I would rather a person take me as I am... and try to get to know me beyond something like appearance, culture, or music/scene.

Thats not to say people should all put on gray jumpsuits and call ourselves the neutral planet... (guess the reference?)

For someone that wants to identify as crust punk... sure those that are more grass roots and know the music and scene have more legitimacy for that particular time and place perhaps. Still like Carl Wander here says... it's more proper to use those sorts of identifications as adjectives. To be discarded once done.. IF done. People grow and change throughout life. Culture grows and changes and merges with others. Nobody needs judge someone else for the path they have walked. Your own path could easily have be very different as well in life.

And when it comes to music... that is also an ever evolving beast I'm afraid... And what was Crust Punk one day might just be a Wagon Wheel the next.

(srry bd jk...You know nothing about Crust Jon Snow. ::drinkingbuddy:

PS: I can respect primitives search for a specific Crust identity... but I don't believe everyone needs to or wants to confine themselves by such boundaries.

 

[RnJ]

Labels have this restrictive meaning to it, while adjectives are merely used to describe something. Just because you say you're a punk, or a crusty, or a hippy doesnt mean you plan on always being one, or that you got all your punk/crusty/hippy points. It's just convenient to have a word describing what you are, or dress like.

I agree with this adjectives things being good, and labels tend to be limiting -- but I don't think most people know the difference.

To deal with this, when people ask me about something, I try to answer in a way that makes it impossible to have be pinned. I prefer also to not be evasive and weird while doing it, but I do think it help to have a strategy for not falling into the yes/no pattern. When somebody dresses like a _______ and you bring up that fact and they start getting super defensive and saying "NO I'M NOT" it doesn't make me thing they're a more dynamic individual; they just sound defensive and in denial.

So, if you're not to be labeled and easily categorized, try to move past being defensive and relying on the word "no" to change peoples minds.

Example: "Are you ________?"
Possible answers:
-Among other things, yes!
-Yes, but not a very good one.
-I do have that influence.
-Some days.

For questions that you feel yourself leaning towards saying "no" to about who you are and what you're like, try to avoid saying "no" if it seems like that person is trying to make sense of you. We all do that of the world and others. Focus on unpacking their question.

Example: "So, would you say you're __________?
Possible answers:
-I'm not sure. How can I tell?
-What do you mean by ______?
-I enjoy parts of what ______ people have to offer

One time I was working the tubing run at a nearby skihill, and an 8ish year old girl waiting in line point blank asked me: "So would you consider yourself a hippie?"
I sort of choked up and paused and thought and then said "Well gee, I'm not sure. How can I tell?"
She paused and mulled it over and said "Well, I guess, if you and your brother were mad at each other and then you said I would rather not fight about it." So I told her that I actually don't really like fighting, because it doesn't make me feel good, and so that, yeah, then maybe I am a hippie.

 

[Primitive]

Whoa - long thread. After a brief overview, from someone that has never been thoroughly immersed in the culture: Crusty ideology and crust punk ideology is definitely two different things, no?

Actually sorry for the seemingly rude reply I was extremely annoyed with this at first because I misread and thought you were saying *you were* thoroughly immersed in the culture lol OK I see now misunderstanding