Why so serious (1 Viewer)

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Maxnomad

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"More troubling is how Joker distorts its real-life references. Arthur’s shooting spree is a nod to Bernhard Goetz, a white vigilante gunman who, in 1984, shot four young men who were panhandling on the New York subway. Like Arthur, Goetz was hailed as a hero. The crack epidemic and an economic crisis contributed to tripling the city’s crime rates over the previous two decades, and Goetz was lauded by his frustrated and frightened fellow citizens for taking justice into his own hands. Unlike Arthur, though, whose targets were greed-is-good Gordon Gekko-types, Goetz’s were Black teenagers. And the support for Goetz was, in part, driven by stereotypes and a racist fear that all Black men pose a threat. These same fears were in play a few years later when five young Black and Latino men were falsely arrested and imprisoned for the rape of a jogger in Central Park. Donald Trump, then a real estate greed-is-good Gordon-Gekko–type, took out a full-page newspaper adcalling for the innocent teenagers to be executed. He has yet to apologize."

Is ‘Joker’ about angry white men or for them? It’s still unclear - https://www.dailyxtra.com/is-joker-about-angry-white-men-or-for-them-its-still-unclear-163084?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=smad&utm_campaign=fbad&utm_content=Traffic%3A+Joker&fbclid=IwAR1wV1COXQqI_JVioTdBku_kx-K_24IYfUQMwpqsKdnOiR4ZSIyBIh5EdDs
 
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Maxnomad

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I think the article speaks pretty eloquently to the typically unselfaware dude tendency to center our own pain at the expense of others, and to turn dialogue into territoriality by simultaneously refusing to acknowledge our own bad behaviour and demanding that our wounds and feelings be respected. I don't leave myself out of this, but i include a lot of the male socialized-and-identified posters on this wacky forum. I'm sure i myself am a perfect example, but what comes to mind is engineer j lupo's behaviour towards the end of that thread about (ironically) trash islands. The developement in his rhetoric from kooky wingnut who hasn't thought this through to cult leader who literally threatens 3 percent of the readers of that thread was a bizarre rationalization, an escalation which was necessary not because it was called for but because it justified his increasingly aggressive behavior. I also had slight friction w him recently, in perhaps the pronoun thread or the porn thread. He said something to the effect of "here's an explanation, now that i've broken it down do you really wanna get into it w me bro do we have to take this outside i'm a mod etc". The thing that struck me about it was that he could have copypasted pasted it from other threads i've read that he's participated in, which i'm not prepared to cite, and that noticing that actually cooled my own feels down a little, cause frankly it's really relatable. Again, i'm only picking on him because it's a pretty recent and clear example, i've done the exact same thing.
 
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Matt Derrick

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Well, here's the thing; we don't tolerate nonsense threads with links and no explanation. That's spam, and it's against the rules.

If you had explained yourself in the first post along with the link like you had in the second, I wouldn't have an issue with this thread.

I also don't care what perceived beef you have with @Engineer J Lupo, your original post has no correlation to that and basically nothing to do with your beef, so this is your only warning to keep it to yourself, and stop wasting our fucking time with bullshit like this.
 

MFB

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Just read the article.
That lady seemed more interested in pushing the 'all straight white males are bad' rhetoric rather than enjoying a movie.
I was kind of excited about it, I like the Joker and that Jaqouin Phoenix cat.
Anyhow, I dont understand why people on this site are so bad about disagreeing w people. Didnt you guys ever see Different Strokes?

EJ Lupes, you wanna take it outside, big daddy!?! 😤😉
 

MFB

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Tongue in cheek, Max; just being a smart alec, my friend. 😊
 

Engineer J Lupo

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I tried to be fairly clear that i have no beef w lupo
Yeah likewise. I got no beef with you whatsoever. Sometimes it feels like you're coming at me or trying to make some sort of point against me but I got no beef with you. I'd rather people air their grievances(even if they're in my direction) than not. By all means, make your case. I wanna hear it if you got something to say. All I ask is that you keep it accurate if you're quoting me and if you're reciting other threads or posts.. links are helpful.

I don't want to leave this world having people bummed at me or thinking negatively about me. But I can't work on a shitty behavior someone else perceives and try to be the best version of myself that I can be if you're not presenting it well. If your presentation is weak(which I feel both of your previous call outs were) I have a hard time taking those seriously. If you don't like the way I interact with people, call that shit out.

Quote me verbatim and link the sources and let's have a real discussion about it. Don't do this "he said something to the effect of" bullshit. Present it like you're in a courtroom, really fucking hammer me or gtfo all together. Don't half step that shit.

Also, I think you'd be wise to ask yourself why you're standing so alone on this. I don't receive a whole lot of negative ratings really. Doesn't that sort of indicate something? 9 years I've been talkin shit on this site & I got 3 negative ratings and you're probably 2 of them and the other is your friend back in the pronoun thread I'm sure. It's definitely something to ponder. Who knows though, maybe you're the chosen one. Maybe you'll open everyone's eyes and they'll all be like yeah, fuck Lupo! It could happen. I got faith in you, make me proud.
 
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Maxnomad

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Thing is, its hard to talk about broader social patterns without pointing to specific incidents, but its hard to get up someones ass with a microscope without pissing them off too. I guess, or i hope, i stand to learn in that regard. I didnt @ you, and im not gonna bother to quote you, cause i dont think the particulars matter as much as the pattern, which, read the article? Maybe we'd get more out of this discussion looking at a piece of fiction that kinda resembles us, rather than us. Unless you really want me to, if you really wanna hash this out thats legit, but that would be tomorrow cause im tired an this phone is a pos.

Afa far as ratings, i dont care. I havent looked at mine, but i obviously will now. I thought the article did a better job of breaking down some social dynamics than your thumbs an poops. You cant express nuanced emotions and complex feelings wIth an emoji, and you cant hear them if youre ridiculing people or defending your own conception of your self in your head. Again, not gonna point to specifics cause im tired, dont give a shit if you think im punking out, cause i wasnt talking to you, i was talking to literally everyone who reads this thread, whether they care to emoji poop on my head or not, and with no particular interest in whose hearts and minds i win over, unless someone tells me im being hurtful or reopening old traumas, not just being annoying. (But id still give you my last cig or whatever if i ran into you; i'd probably try to have this conversation again, and then again later, so be warned; i'm the kinda teal one w purple stripes)

(I kinda lied, im actually curious how much of the stuff i link or post gets read. But ive got a whole pile of pdfs im sitting on so its not like im in any position to complain if noone wants to read some denseass shit i probably punched myself in the head while reading)
 

Engineer J Lupo

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That's fair enough. I'll read the article you linked. I don't think you're punking out, you have all the right in the world to be tired. Plus I'm sure you have a life and this really isn't that important in the first place right. I'm not fussed either way. If you wanna get into my ass, dive right into it be my guest. If you don't, and you'd rather flare up again on another date, that's cool too. Also, I know I haven't exactly surrendered but just having my name tossed around like this whether it's @ me or not.. it's got my attention and it's got me reflecting on some shit.

I can't stand seeing a person being told they're an asshole and they're like "nah, that's not true" then someone else comes along and says "no, it's really true.. you're an asshole" and then again they're like nah, that's another lie about me. Then like 5-6 people are all chiming in agreeing they're an asshole and they still refuse to even allow for the possibility that their shit stinks. It actually just happened in a fairly popular thread within the last month or so.

So I won't be that person. Right now it's only you, but I know I ruffled a few other feathers in the pronouns thread. I don't need 5-6 people telling me I'm a douche bag, I wanna start investigating that shit the first time I'm told. So I'm taking what you've said to heart and at very least considering it. Maybe I could stand to be a little less antagonistic. I'll see what I can do, but no promises! ;)
 
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Maxnomad

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@Matt Derrick , it seems like you dont tolerate things that are annoying or confusing, but youre fine tolerating things that marginalized folks repeatedly explain are like, actually bad. This is, again, from my perspective. And i really cant speak to queer or other marginalized perspectives, but i can speak somewhat to an alienated edgy white dude perspective. And i came across an article that discusses violence coming from men who have legitimate traumas, that tries to take a "radical" perspective, fails, and ends up reproducing the same patterns of abuse they themselves were subject to. Its also about the joker, thats a little embarassing, but after all we live in a society. thats a foucault reference, by the way, but where heath ledger stopped at "we live in a society of control", foucault understood that there are degrees of control inherent in every society, but its the concentration or capture of power in prison systems, churches, and graffiti bros like obeygiantdude who get to be mediocre and still expect praise when he puts up dumb murals in communities that have already told him fuck off cause he knows theyre "radical" or whatever. Power as in telling someone "pass the salt" vs power as in telling someone "youre experiences arent valid and if you keep talking were gonna ban you" whether thats talking about our own lives or posting detailed (and pretty impressive imo) maps of currents cross referencing mercury and micro plastics exegetical discourse on brendan frasiers the mummy (brodiesel wanted to know what gets me to nut, thats it btw)
 

Matt Derrick

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@Matt Derrick , it seems like you dont tolerate things that are annoying or confusing, but youre fine tolerating things that marginalized folks repeatedly explain are like, actually bad. This is, again, from my perspective. And i really cant speak to queer or other marginalized perspectives, but i can speak somewhat to an alienated edgy white dude perspective. And i came across an article that discusses violence coming from men who have legitimate traumas, that tries to take a "radical" perspective, fails, and ends up reproducing the same patterns of abuse they themselves were subject to. Its also about the joker, thats a little embarassing, but after all we live in a society. thats a foucault reference, by the way, but where heath ledger stopped at "we live in a society of control", foucault understood that there are degrees of control inherent in every society, but its the concentration or capture of power in prison systems, churches, and graffiti bros like obeygiantdude who get to be mediocre and still expect praise when he puts up dumb murals in communities that have already told him fuck off cause he knows theyre "radical" or whatever. Power as in telling someone "pass the salt" vs power as in telling someone "youre experiences arent valid and if you keep talking were gonna ban you" whether thats talking about our own lives or posting detailed (and pretty impressive imo) maps of currents cross referencing mercury and micro plastics exegetical discourse on brendan frasiers the mummy (brodiesel wanted to know what gets me to nut, thats it btw)

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