The threat of Nuke War between US and Russia is keeping me up at night again

[FredSanders]

Not since the Reagan 1980s when we were at the brink of Nuke War and movies like "Wargames" and "The Day After" have we come this close. The fact that Biden and the US Miiitary have never renounced first strike is noted. A cyber attack could be countered by a nuke strike by the US

 

[Matt Derrick]

I don't think we're anywhere near 'cuban missile crisis' levels yet. it's a lot of posturing to see who will back down first, a nuclear strike at this point would be like using a sledgehammer for a nail. there's no real advantage to it for either side.

 

[josh09]

Turn off the TV and get some rest man. LOL

 

[Big George W]

Don't forget Trinitys Child/By The Dawns Early Light !!

Yeah, I've been watching alot of the overseas stuff as I have no use for any US media/news, and it's like Biden is really pushing for this to happen.

Every damn day for weeks now, it's been "Russia is going to invade tomorrow..." while Mr Putin is more or less just against the idea of the Ukraine joining NATO but at the same time showing a mighty strength of force, and that he means business.

War is hell.

 

[CouchPunx]

sounds like we could cut off russia from SWIFT but we refuse to do it because the US would lose some money, gas prices would go up etc. I have lots of friends in latvia and other post-soviet states, they're all terrified right now. def not fun to be making light of the situation, shit is very heavy right now

 

[Big George W]

I just watched BBC's live coverage of their government hearings, and the amount of support everyone is giving their prime minister is beyond belief.

England will cut Russia out of SWIFT and also freeze all their assets, and cease all trading as well.

I was proud to hear the English government at work !!

This is by far the most serious conflict that I can remember, besides Vietnam - but this is far far worse, because nobody knows how vast it may become.

They must be so terrified over in Europe and Asia as well, for they understand what War is really like.

Praying for Peace !!

 

[Big George W]

CouchPunx, deep breaths.... I see the ban hammer falling sooner rather than later with this one.

I'm off to work soon myself....

 

[Matt Derrick]

CouchPunx, deep breaths.... I see the ban hammer falling sooner rather than later with this one.

I've banned that person's account and removed their content from the site.

 

[Big George W]

Yup, I saw that coming.... it's one thing to disagree on the current political climate, but to start really pushing an agenda like that, not too mention the way it was being done - well... I found that to be not cool, and very insulting to those overseas.

[*I edited my original comment, since you have banned their account....}

 

[khonjin]

sounds like we could cut off russia from SWIFT but we refuse to do it because the US would lose some money, gas prices would go up etc. I have lots of friends in latvia and other post-soviet states, they're all terrified right now. def not fun to be making light of the situation, shit is very heavy right now

The reason US is hesitant to cut Russia from SWIFT is because Russia has stated they will interpret that as a declaration of war.

 

[Wytukay]

This is from a recent essay by Charles Eisenstein:

Will the ancient pattern continue forever? Has anything in human nature changed that will deliver us from the cycle of war begetting war and hate begetting hate? Actually, something has changed. We are in a new age of humanity—call it an age of compassion, of reunion, of interbeing—inaugurated, paradoxically, by the most murderous human invention ever: nuclear weapons. Radioactive blowback and mutually assured destruction offer a stern lesson in interconnection: I cannot escape the consequences I visit upon the Other. A corollary is that matters of right and wrong are no longer to be solved by force. Paradoxically, the mightiest force ever conceived has made force obsolete as a final solution. Before the nuclear age, war carried the prospect of total victory over an annihilated enemy. No longer. The age has turned. Nukes limit the degree to which even the most bloodthirsty are willing to escalate conflict, but the principle extends to non-nuclear conflicts too. Even when the United States faces a puny opponent, still total victory eludes its grasp. All the more so with a powerful opponent like Russia. Regardless of who is good and who is evil in this conflict, the traditional solution of victory over evil by force is not possible. We face the necessity of another kind of solution, a new and unfamiliar storyline.

 

[Big George W]

From what I am gathering now, it sounds like a no win situation....

The other day, I watched a video of two Chabad women, one in Crown Heights, the other a Ukrainian who has since fled to - Poland ?? - with her family.
It was a very interesting conversation, and the Ukrainian woman stated as a matter a factly, real calm... how she thought the Russians would show up and the next day Ukraine would be a part of Russia.
She said it like it was going to be that simple, and that life would go on.

That's the part that bothers me, because now - especially since learning how useless NATO is, and how NATO has that "gang" mentality of "well, we're not going to help you because you are not in the gang..." for fucks sake, even Brooklyn NY street gangs had some level of decency !!

I don't like saying this, but I'm starting to feel that this is going to end very badly for the people of Ukraine.

Had they simply allowed the Russians in, perhaps the Chabad woman from Ukraine was right, they would have become a part of Russia and life would go on.

Now, their country is being pulverized, the western world is doing nothing, and there's a very good chance that Ukraine will fall to Russia, and so many lives will have been lost or displaced, for what !!

It kills me to say that, but that's how I feel, and yes I know a couple of people who are Ukrainian, one lives in Brooklyn, the other - well, I don't know - she was living in Odessa prior to all this, and I've since lost contact with her.......

The one good thing which has come out of this is my eyes have been completely opened as to how U.S. policies work - actually I should say don't work - and how full of shit the Libertarian Party is, as I just recently left them and returned to the Working Families Party.

All these sanctions will do nothing but hurt the people.

I sit here now, with a cat by my side, watching the snow fall.

I wonder what will happen next.

Would Russia eventually invade the U.S. ??

Man, that would be something if it came to that !!

Steve ignorant, from Crass said it best: Freedom ain't worth it, if violence is the price you pay.

Well, I no longer think this will go nuclear, as NATO is showing themselves to be truly useless in a time when they should indeed do something, if nothing else on humanitarian grounds.

The Pentagon is also showing a lack of being able to make any kind of command decision, I mean what a surprise that is............... !!

I still have my East German flag, that's where I suppose I could say I'm from as W. Berlin w as in E. Germany, so we were free but we were watched.

I got to actually spend time in E. Berlin, and that made a real impression on me as well, considering it was 1981 and I was 16 years old back then.

I'd discover Crass through a friend two years later, further cementing my views.

I know one thing, if the Russians show up here, I have two bottles of vodka that have been in my freezer for over 20 years, one from Russia, one from Finland.

I'll have no problem getting glasses and opening them both up should that day come.

 

[Matt Derrick]

From what I am gathering now, it sounds like a no win situation....

The other day, I watched a video of two Chabad women, one in Crown Heights, the other a Ukrainian who has since fled to - Poland ?? - with her family.
It was a very interesting conversation, and the Ukrainian woman stated as a matter a factly, real calm... how she thought the Russians would show up and the next day Ukraine would be a part of Russia.
She said it like it was going to be that simple, and that life would go on.

That's the part that bothers me, because now - especially since learning how useless NATO is, and how NATO has that "gang" mentality of "well, we're not going to help you because you are not in the gang..." for fucks sake, even Brooklyn NY street gangs had some level of decency !!

I don't like saying this, but I'm starting to feel that this is going to end very badly for the people of Ukraine.

Had they simply allowed the Russians in, perhaps the Chabad woman from Ukraine was right, they would have become a part of Russia and life would go on.

Now, their country is being pulverized, the western world is doing nothing, and there's a very good chance that Ukraine will fall to Russia, and so many lives will have been lost or displaced, for what !!

It kills me to say that, but that's how I feel, and yes I know a couple of people who are Ukrainian, one lives in Brooklyn, the other - well, I don't know - she was living in Odessa prior to all this, and I've since lost contact with her.......

The one good thing which has come out of this is my eyes have been completely opened as to how U.S. policies work - actually I should say don't work - and how full of shit the Libertarian Party is, as I just recently left them and returned to the Working Families Party.

All these sanctions will do nothing but hurt the people.

I sit here now, with a cat by my side, watching the snow fall.

I wonder what will happen next.

Would Russia eventually invade the U.S. ??

Man, that would be something if it came to that !!

Steve ignorant, from Crass said it best: Freedom ain't worth it, if violence is the price you pay.

Well, I no longer think this will go nuclear, as NATO is showing themselves to be truly useless in a time when they should indeed do something, if nothing else on humanitarian grounds.

The Pentagon is also showing a lack of being able to make any kind of command decision, I mean what a surprise that is............... !!

I still have my East German flag, that's where I suppose I could say I'm from as W. Berlin w as in E. Germany, so we were free but we were watched.

I got to actually spend time in E. Berlin, and that made a real impression on me as well, considering it was 1981 and I was 16 years old back then.

I'd discover Crass through a friend two years later, further cementing my views.

I know one thing, if the Russians show up here, I have two bottles of vodka that have been in my freezer for over 20 years, one from Russia, one from Finland.

I'll have no problem getting glasses and opening them both up should that day come.

Overall I think you're waaaay off base here, and in general have a severe lack of understanding of what NATO is and does.

I'm not going to write a novel here explaining it to you (google it) but the reason NATO isn't 'helping' (direct insertion of troops) is because this would likely trigger the WW3 you're talking about. Please remember that Russia is a dictatorship, and to keep what happened in WW2 from ever happening again, NATO was formed so that the collective powers of Europe combined could ward off potential invasion from countries like Russia. Collectively, NATO has more firepower than Russia in everything except straight tactical nukes. This is basically the only thing keeping Russia from just taking whatever they want and saying "well, what are you gonna do about it? nothing? yeah we thought so".

Not to mention that most NATO countries are in fact helping by sending weapons. At this time they can't send direct troops since Russia would take this as a sign of war against their country. Putin very very much does not want Ukraine to be part of NATO, since then it's chances of taking that country back into it's borders becomes almost non-existent without triggering a WW3 scenario, which, believe it or not, no country wants, even Russia, due to mutually assured annihilation.

Had they simply allowed the Russians in, perhaps the Chabad woman from Ukraine was right, they would have become a part of Russia and life would go on.

Now, their country is being pulverized, the western world is doing nothing, and there's a very good chance that Ukraine will fall to Russia, and so many lives will have been lost or displaced, for what !!

Your entire argument is predicated on blaming the victims, who are the Ukranian people. You're basically saying it's their fault for wanting freedom and to not live in a dictatorship. Kind of makes you sound like a huge asshole.

I know one thing, if the Russians show up here, I have two bottles of vodka that have been in my freezer for over 20 years, one from Russia, one from Finland.

I'll have no problem getting glasses and opening them both up should that day come.

So you're basically saying, "I for one, welcome our new Russian overlords!". This is some serious Tucker Carlson shit... so basically, you don't think democracy or freedom is worth it. Awesome /s

It appears that your 'knowledge' of NATO, foreign policy, and generally how national powers work is more predicated on Fox News than it is on actual, book reading knowledge and documented facts. I'd really encourage you to do some more research and self-analyze and hopefully realize why living in a dictatorship would fucking suck ass.

Or heck, maybe it wouldn't (for you). You seem strangely comfortable with the idea of living under Putin's thumb. I don't know if that makes you just ignorant or a coward, but neither is a good look.

 

[Big George W]

Matt, with all due respect, your comment here - I don't even know where to begin !!

I mean please, I'm about as left wing as they get, I'm also very much anti war - but at the same time if the rest of the world can watch Russia invade the Ukraine, and not want to jump in - to put a stop to this, that bothers me, and I am sorry if that bothers you.

It's interesting, because there's a huge amount of people out there who state that Russia is in fact doing a good thing, God knows why....

If I am about to be overtaken and I know that my chances of winning are very slim, I am going to do the best I can not to anger those who are going to over take me.

If anything, I would do my best to work with them.

That logic has saved my ass more than once when in a fight situation back in my youth in 1970s/80s Brooklyn.

I'd be very curious what travelers who have been to Russia recently think of Russia today.
Not the USSR - but Russia, because my understanding is that life is far better in Russia than it was in the USSR.

But I could be wrong there too,

I do have one question though - where did FredSanders the OP go ??

 

[Big George W]

*also, Matt, excellent job posting this link on top of where the forums are https://war.ukraine.ua/support-ukraine/ as I was not aware of this website directly from Ukraine.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is how horrible this is for the people of Ukraine, and that hopefully a peaceful resolution will happen soon that benefits all.

 

[Matt Derrick]

If I am about to be overtaken and I know that my chances of winning are very slim, I am going to do the best I can not to anger those who are going to over take me.

If anything, I would do my best to work with them.

I don't know how to put this without being insulting, but your statement is basically the definition of cowardice, and that's troubling.

 

[Big George W]

I won't deny that, in fact I'm surprised I'm not considered a traitor with my pacifist views

But seriously, I'm older now.

I'm just a few years shy of being able to fully retire and collect social security, so I'm thinking more like a broken old man than a strong young one, because that's exactly what I've become.

When I was young, I was very proud to work at a defense plant.
I considered myself very patriotic, until the first Gulf War...

By the time 1993 rolled around, with the whole Somalia thing going wrong, I really started to question life, as that kind of affected me personally [another story for another day...] but when I watched Colin Powell try and sell us on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and you could tell by his own expression that he wasn't buying it, this whole war thing started to get very old [I did fully support us going into Afghanistan....]

I've had the experience of being able to work with Korean War Vets, also Vietnam Vets, and Veterans of more recent conflicts, and their stories have also been a huge factor in how I think today.

I grew up during the Cold War, and in elementary school [public] took part in the air raid drills [mid 1970s] and by the 8th grade [Catholic school] we were taught how we were right on the edge of the 6 mile blast radius if a nuclear bomb was to be dropped on Times Square [very comforting as a kid to know !!]

So, between that and spending time back in West Berlin, East Germany.... I have come to have both a great respect and fear of the Soviet Union/Russia.

It kills me what the Russians are doing to the people of Ukraine, and I would not be surprised if many of the Russian troops are not happy about this either.

The people of Ukraine have been very generous towards those being captured, shot down.... as in a way they are fighting their own kind... and what is their reward ?? More bombing of civilian targets...

I'll agree Matt that my comment which you labeled stupid is probably out of line, but I did not think it was stupid.

Yesterday I turned 35 years since I walked into that defense plant, just shy of age 22

I no longer work on military helicopters due to repetitive trauma injuries sustained over time, and now spend my nights riding around on a forklift delivering parts, etc...

Today is St Paddys Day, and tomorrow is my birthday [57 !!]

My dog is now 14, which for a pitbull whose first two years were anything but good is quite a remarkable age to achieve, and she has not only been my best friend, but a great teacher as well, and I am very sad in knowing that someday she will cross over the rainbow bridge so I make every day count with her.

Soon, it will be my turn to go into the clay, and once I save up a few more coins, I can get "The Lord is My Shephard" engraved on my headstone, along with my name, date of birth, etc.... as I want everything to be ready once I go, which is something that I am quite comfortable with now.

Yes, perhaps I am a traitor/coward..... and yes, I am still upset that Russia is not being stopped from committing their illegal invasion on Ukraine.

But I also know that Russia is a mighty super power, one that I still both respect and fear.

Thanks for not dropping the ban hammer on me.
While we may disagree on many things here, the one thing we both want is peace in Ukraine, and no WW III

Cheers.....

 

[ali]

I hope the people who were worried about nuclear war are feeling a bit less stressed now than they were a couple months ago, but here is a video that hopefully will go a little further to explain how unlikely it is that Russia will employ nukes in the Ukraine conflict as it stands.



If you are interested in the economics and logistics of the military, i highly recommend this guy's channel. He has some very level-headed analysis of this war, and it's far more illuminating and less sensationalistic than what you read in most other outlets.