seeking advice on how to live, stay, travel europe longer than 90 days

[oscarwild]

used to hitchhike in the states, hopped a train or two. that was almost a decade ago now. in school, have some scholarship money. trying to figure out ways to stay, work, eat, and continue my cigarette addiction. read thru alot of the threads here. all stories and advice welcome.

 

[ali]

Easiest way is go in and out of Schengen zone every 90 days. You then need to stay 90 days in the other place before you come back. Some examples of places you can go include UK (England, Scotland, Wales), North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt), Balkans (Bosnia/Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia) and possibly Bulgaria or Romania (not sure if they count as outside Schengen still) plus Turkey. Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine are options too, but might be a bit risky at the moment because of the war. I would ask around some people who have spent a lot of time in these countries (i've only spent longer periods in UK and Turkey) to see if they have any recommendations.

 

[Matt Derrick]

thank you for having a descriptive title, that will help more people answer your question.

like @ali said, you're basically going to have to play a game of 'touch and go' with countries that are and are not in the Schengen zone. Just keep in mind you only get 90 days in any EU country within a 180 day period. What's useful is that the UK allows stays (for US citizens) up to 180 days, so you could theoretically spend 90 days in a few EU countries and then 90 days (or more) in the UK, then come back to a few more EU countries for another 90 days, which would be around 9 months total. I'm not sure if you can bounce back to the UK for another 90 days and repeat, someone would have to check on that for me.

 

[laughingman]

Wow. Clear and consice answers to questions I didn't know I had. Awesome you two. Thanks for asking Wild.

 

[borek921]

I would have the same question but other way around, about US. How would I tackle that? Do I just jump around between US and Mexico every 90 days or what?

 

[AestheticTramper]

used to hitchhike in the states, hopped a train or two. that was almost a decade ago now. in school, have some scholarship money. trying to figure out ways to stay, work, eat, and continue my cigarette addiction. read thru alot of the threads here. all stories and advice welcome.

The answers above already cover really well how you can stay in Europe pretty much indefinitely by hopping in and out of the Schengen zone so I will focus on the living and working part. In Europe workways, volunteering in exchange for food and accommodation, is quite common. Sites like HelpX and Workaway are your friend here. (if that's your thing). Potentially a good option during winter. Otherwise wild/urban camping is pretty safe everywhere. (Although there are often laws against it in most countries - I have personally never been fined or moved on, but I guess it depends on how long you stay/visability. In the Balkans and Eastern Europe there are so many empty buildings in every city. Even in the centres.

Additionally, hitchhiking is easy going pretty much everywhere with the exceptions of Spain, Italy, and Austria...North Croatia, Montenegro and northren Greece are difficult sometimes. Freight hopping (which I personally haven't done yet) may be harder in a sense because there is no culture of it here and little information. On the other hand, security is lax or near non-existent for the the same reason. (Almost definitely not true for south-north/west migrant routes though).

Busking is tolerated in most places, although some large or touristy cities require you to buy day permits. Up to each individual if this is actually worthwhile.

 

[oscarwild]

Thanks everyone! Appreciate the advice!

To answer your question, borek: I don't know the answer to that. What I do know is I've met many Europeans that are here past their visa date and continue to hitchhike and travel. One dude I knew hitched from Romania to Portugal, worked in a seafood restaurant, talked his way onto a boat, and worked the boat until it went to port on the east coast of the USA. Then he hitchhiked across the US to where I met him in Oregon, all illegally. He never went to jail as far as I know and finally went back to Romania without incident. So it's possible. He kept himself clean and stole endless amounts of food from Fred Meyer.

I would have the same question but other way around, about US. How would I tackle that? Do I just jump around between US and Mexico every 90 days or what?

 

[juniormustache]

The answers above already cover really well how you can stay in Europe pretty much indefinitely by hopping in and out of the Schengen zone so I will focus on the living and working part. In Europe workways, volunteering in exchange for food and accommodation, is quite common. Sites like HelpX and Workaway are your friend here. (if that's your thing). Potentially a good option during winter. Otherwise wild/urban camping is pretty safe everywhere. (Although there are often laws against it in most countries - I have personally never been fined or moved on, but I guess it depends on how long you stay/visability. In the Balkans and Eastern Europe there are so many empty buildings in every city. Even in the centres.

Additionally, hitchhiking is easy going pretty much everywhere with the exceptions of Spain, Italy, and Austria...North Croatia, Montenegro and northren Greece are difficult sometimes. Freight hopping (which I personally haven't done yet) may be harder in a sense because there is no culture of it here and little information. On the other hand, security is lax or near non-existent for the the same reason. (Almost definitely not true for south-north/west migrant routes though).

Busking is tolerated in most places, although some large or touristy cities require you to buy day permits. Up to each individual if this is actually worthwhile.

All of this is so helpful! Thank you everyone!

I just bought tickets into Dublin in late August and I'm looking into some of these websites. Is it advisable to not mention volunteering on a farm when entering the country if you don't have a visa?

 

[AestheticTramper]

All of this is so helpful! Thank you everyone!

I just bought tickets into Dublin in late August and I'm looking into some of these websites. Is it advisable to not mention volunteering on a farm when entering the country if you don't have a visa?

I believe typically a tourist visa rules out any paid work, or any volunteering on a commercial basis . (I assume not to displace local workers.) Additionally, some countries like the UK might designate free accommodation and food as a form of 'pay' too. Working in hostels for instance can be tricky in some countries for exactly that reason - instead requiring the correct visa for volunteering or working. Although many other countries in Europe frankly don't care that much. On a visa application I honestly wouldn't mention it - since these arrangements are generally short-term and informal. If in doubt, ask the potential hosts what they find acceptable.

That said, people often get around this concern by volunteering on non-commercial farms or homesteads. Such as those found on websites like WWOOF. They kind of fall outside such rules.

 

[juniormustache]

I believe typically a tourist visa rules out any paid work, or any volunteering on a commercial basis . (I assume not to displace local workers.) Additionally, some countries like the UK might designate free accommodation and food as a form of 'pay' too. Working in hostels for instance can be tricky in some countries for exactly that reason - instead requiring the correct visa for volunteering or working. Although many other countries in Europe frankly don't care that much. On a visa application I honestly wouldn't mention it - since these arrangements are generally short-term and informal. If in doubt, ask the potential hosts what they find acceptable.

That said, people often get around this concern by volunteering on non-commercial farms or homesteads. Such as those found on websites like WWOOF. They kind of fall outside such rules.

Thank you so much for this! Just to clarify, you're saying getting a tourist visa is advisable in general, even if WWOOFing? Or is it not necessary to even apply for a visa if the only 'work' would be WWOOFing?

Definitely want to respect/not displace local workers too, so thank you for this detailed response!

 

[AestheticTramper]

Thank you so much for this! Just to clarify, you're saying getting a tourist visa is advisable in general, even if WWOOFing? Or is it not necessary to even apply for a visa if the only 'work' would be WWOOFing?

Definitely want to respect/not displace local workers too, so thank you for this detailed response!

It's not necessary. It's not even necessary to mention such things when crossing borders etc....

Don't know if I'm allowed to post links but here is some info to clarify: What visa do I need? - WWOOF - Help Center - https://help.wwoof.net/en/articles/161858-what-visa-do-i-need

 

[juniormustache]

Amazing th

It's not necessary. It's not even necessary to mention such things when crossing borders etc....

Don't know if I'm allowed to post links but here is some info to clarify: What visa do I need? - WWOOF - Help Center - https://help.wwoof.net/en/articles/161858-what-visa-do-i-need

Amazing! Thank you so much

 

[oscarwild]

Easiest way is go in and out of Schengen zone every 90 days. You then need to stay 90 days in the other place before you come back. Some examples of places you can go include UK (England, Scotland, Wales), North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt), Balkans (Bosnia/Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia) and possibly Bulgaria or Romania (not sure if they count as outside Schengen still) plus Turkey. Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine are options too, but might be a bit risky at the moment because of the war. I would ask around some people who have spent a lot of time in these countries (i've only spent longer periods in UK and Turkey) to see if they have any recommendations.

What's up with Turkey? Considering it as a place to chill for a few months. Istanbul probably.

 

[ali]

I was only in Turkey briefly and only in Istanbul. It was also still in the earlier years of Erdoğan's presidency when there was some optimism among young people. From what I understand things got quite a bit worse there since, although there is some hope his party will be defeated in upcoming elections. I guess it depends on your personality how much you notice or care about this stuff when you're traveling. I perhaps tend to be more conscious of local politics than I need to be. As usual if you just keep your head down and don't make any waves you can probably ignore most of it as a traveler.

Practically speaking, I can say that Turkey is the only place in the whole world I have been where I got scammed. Typical restaurant scam where they massively overcharge you and then have a bouncer at the door who won't let you leave unless you pay. It made every subsequent eating out experience much more awkward as I ended up grilling everyone for a price list before even walking through the door, so those assholes did a great job ruining it for all the legit small businesses. It's also the only country in the world where I was tut-tutted and abused by passing Arabs for not dressing as modestly as they would like, which pissed me the fuck off because I was already wearing long sleeves (which I hate) and Turkey isn't even their country, they were just tourists like me. Really turned me off ever going to visit the Middle East even though I am very interested in the history and the landscape of the region.

That makes it sound like it's an awful place, but at the same time Istanbul kinda feels like the most futuristic, cyberpunk city in Europe. It's really big, like an Asian city, it's right on the seaside, there is a great mash of modern and ancient. You can take ferries around the place. There's wild cats everywhere. The atmosphere is electric. There is a decent club scene with a fair bit of cross-pollination with Germany/Berlin. The food is pretty great. The coffee is awesome.

I think if I went to Turkey again I would try stay as far away from even vaguely touristy areas in an effort to avoid scams and rich, conservative foreigners. But also in the countryside there is its own kind of conservatism, so not sure how that goes. If you pass as a masculine man, you will probably have much less problems.