What is the pure definition of Fascism?

[David1]

Is it sacrificing your individuality for the good of the whole or state? Is it like Borg Cube? Of so then far left communism and far right police states are one and the same?!!!?? Now that being said there might be times when the whole in under such extreme threat that such a system may be necessary for mutual defense.

 

[Matt Derrick]

Now that being said there might be times when the whole in under such extreme threat that such a system may be necessary for mutual defense.

What are you saying or trying to convey? I keep re-reading that sentence and it still means nothing.

 

[blank]

I think they mean some kind of emergency situation that would require some degree of fascism to solve. Like, I dunno, a suspension of some rights in a country that gets invaded or if someone pours tons of LSD into the water supply.

 

[Maxnomad]

Its funny you mention purity, thats traditionally a pretty strong concern of totalitarian tendencies that fascists didnt actually care much about. I posted an article on the subject of fascism in partucular, as opposed to say nazism or the ideology of the romanian iron guard, in the fascism thread recently

And no. Its never justified

 

[feralautistic]

I haven't seen any simple definition of fascism that adequately describes it, it's a complicated phenomenon.

I think the primary goal of fascism is control, and its primary method is fear of the other. the fascist project always includes a centralization of power in the name of safety, and leads to genocide of that other. But there's a lot more to the dialogue and ideology, really if you start pulling at that thread you find it runs throughout our society.... It has much stronger ties to liberal democracy than most people will acknowledge

I think ultimately you believe fascism is unjustifiable, or you support it to some extent. There is no moderate or conditional fascism. if you give it any ground it will try to take more, because it seeks to control or exterminate everything.

 

[Coywolf]

I think this explains the actually history quite well. However, yes it is definitely possible for far left leadership to transform into Fascism. Look at how Hitler gained power.

Fascism - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

 

[Coywolf]

Also, see this thread I posted awhile ago:

Fascism Discussion Thread | Squat the Planet - https://squattheplanet.com/threads/fascism-discussion-thread.37666/

 

[Coywolf]

I haven't seen any simple definition of fascism that adequately describes it, it's a complicated phenomenon.

I think the primary goal of fascism is control, and its primary method is fear of the other. the fascist project always includes a centralization of power in the name of safety, and leads to genocide of that other. But there's a lot more to the dialogue and ideology, really if you start pulling at that thread you find it runs throughout our society.... It has much stronger ties to liberal democracy than most people will acknowledge

I think ultimately you believe fascism is unjustifiable, or you support it to some extent. There is no moderate or conditional fascism. if you give it any ground it will try to take more, because it seeks to control or exterminate everything.

The Patriot Act is a very good example of this.

 

[David1]

Fascism is the bundling of smaller sticks(Units) by tying them together to create a stronger unit. If anyone here has tried to build a survival structure in a hobo jungle and all you have is thin long branches then you use chicken wire to hold a bundle together. If my reading/oral history of Italy was like before the rise of Mussolini was there was a dozen "Nation States" and "Papal States" aka fiefdoms that were run by the local warlords "The Borgias" who brutalised there own people and fought against each other which left Italy in a weak position at about 1900. Mussolini (who by the way got tossed from the Italian Socilist Party) united the Nation States under his idea of Fascism and creating the cult of power under a new kind of nationalism that emphasized unity and state control of unions to attempt to industrialise Italy which was left behind by the Industrial Revolution and hurt by the mass migration out of Italy to America. He ran Italy for 28 years under Fascism... Did it work? Well considering the alternatives Italy could have been split under the spoils of war by the Germans, Americans and the French and the Russians but after WW2 Italy was left intact and the people of Italy could have been left in perpetual poverty and be a debtor slave nation indefinitely.

 

[David1]

Simon Whistler is a fav of mine love his accent and his not taking sides so here is a youtube vid on Mussolini

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[David1]

and BTW I am not defending fascism or any ism for that matter because they tend to make me late for supper- "We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!” Bilbo Baggins,

 

[Gonzo Dobbs]

I think they mean some kind of emergency situation that would require some degree of fascism to solve. Like, I dunno, a suspension of some rights in a country that gets invaded or if someone pours tons of LSD into the water supply.

Someone really needs to pour LSD into my water supply

 

[David1]

Actualy using LSD as a weapon has been studied for 60 years by us and the the Russians with the conclusion that it would be too messy to work and have collateral damage

 

[David1]

The US Army used LSD on our own soldiers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28686061

 

[Gonzo Dobbs]

Actualy using LSD as a weapon has been studied for 60 years by us and the the Russians with the conclusion that it would be too messy to work and have collateral damage

LSD was used as a weapon by shitty people to REALLY fuck up my head! Got terrible PTSD from it

 

[Maxnomad]

and BTW I am not defending fascism or any ism for that matter

Ok boomer

 

[Hibiscus]

Umberto Eco wrote an essay called "Ur-Fascism" that lists 14 traits that are commonly found in fascism. If you have the time, the whole thing is definitely worth the read.

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

 

[Maxnomad]

@Hibiscus yooooooo!

Of course none of these points are by themselves definitive, and can be present in a lot of other shitty thought or social patterns. I feel point 11 is worth expanding upon, as "education" is a.tiny bit misleading, when all education necessarily begins with someone who knows nothing (a literally baby) and this requires indoctrination

Indoctrination is built on recognition of group membership, and always necessarily implies both a threat, and a promise (hey, new kid! Come with us! You seem cool, and we have food and shelter! Or you can freeze, and starve)

This is called "interpellation", or hailing. Think of the sieg hail. Anyone who presents you with a sieg heil or similar salute recognizes you as a brother, but, of course, as with the nazis, its join or die (in many cases the death is more social than literal).

While interpellation sounds sinister, as what sounds like a warm welcome hides a knife, its important to remember that this is a feature of all group formation, and need not be any more threatening than the command "pass the salt". The manner of performance is as, if not more, important as the content of said performance. This is why its imperative that those of us who have been socialized to be commanding personalities examine not only the semantic, or literal, meaning of our statements, but also the semiotic, or implied content. Because violence doesnt beget violence by way of violence alone