# Ukraine protests, what are your views?



## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

Strange Topic.... What do people actually feel about the situation in Ukraine? In Europe its not so widely talked about, even amongst the radical folks here where I live (Germany). It is a sensitive point, and I think you have to be quite sure of yourself to take a stance. There is a lot of things happenning on the ground over there, and I think the important question to me, is can you take a position in support of westernization, when the rest of your politics may lean against that? Here is more like, can you be pro EU for outsiders, but anti-eu for insiders... As well, how do you view the red and blacks in Ukraine, seeing as they are extreme right wing nationalists (fought alongside the Nazis in WWII), but are a big part of the forefront of this movement? I know there are many individual reasons why it is happening, and a lot of history we cannot understand as outsiders, but in the current situation, it creates such a contradiction in my head...


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## Ristoncor (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm glad people in Ukraine are standing up for their right to protest. And I don't think you have to agree with their other views to appreciate their actions. As far as I know, the reasons for the protests were because the.government was trying restrict them. If you share the view that protest should not be restricted (to a reasonable degree; you can't kill people because it's "protest"); then appreciate the protests. You can vehemently disagree with the party's other actions or beliefs but still admire them for this particular event.


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

The recent protests were inflamed by a recent set of laws implemented on the 16th of January this year. These laws were a counter measure to protests which started in November last year of mainly pro EU citizens that were upset that the govt sold out to Russia, rather than the EU. There may be more anger and some more people, but there have been reports of 100's of thousands on the streets for the last few months.
So I would not agree that "the reasons for the protests were because the.government was trying restrict them." Mainly because this was not one particular event, but an ongoing thing.
In any case I think it showed a positive view for both sides, as the president has also now annulled the anti protest laws, after 12 days (which is a pretty progressive change for a government in any place). It also shows that the severity of the protests was effective in making some (near immediate) change.


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

I am also curious when people will start with the idea that this is fueled by western brainwashing and propaganda, as this became a major theme for Libya and Syria (of conspiracy theories), and a proven conspiracy theory of the past (I.E. Contras). When a government wont bend to the political influence of the west, its not so hard to overthrow them with their own people.
I wouldnt claim this is the case in Ukraine, but only because there isnt much supporting it (yet). However, it is in a pretty crucial position (economically and geographically), to provoke Russia.


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## Matt Derrick (Jan 29, 2014)

Cardboard said:


> As well, how do you view the red and blacks in Ukraine, seeing as they are extreme right wing nationalists (fought alongside the Nazis in WWII), but are a big part of the forefront of this movement?



i'm a little confused by this statement. do you mean 'red and blacks' as in, anarchists? it seems like it would be difficult to be an anarchist and be a right wing nationalist at the same time.


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

Matt Derrick said:


> i'm a little confused by this statement. do you mean 'red and blacks' as in, anarchists? it seems like it would be difficult to be an anarchist and be a right wing nationalist at the same time.


No, The people who might be wearing black block, and flying red and black flags, are not anarchists. Sorry, that was worded strange. There are a lot of photos of these folks circulating the web, but the red and black flag is the flag of the Ukranian Insurgent Army, a right wing nationalist group. There has been some confusion from folks I know about these images of the protest, imagining that there is a huge anarcho-communist presence.


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## Matt Derrick (Jan 29, 2014)

Cardboard said:


> No, The people who might be wearing black block, and flying red and black flags, are not anarchists. Sorry, that was worded strange. There are a lot of photos of these folks circulating the web, but the red and black flag is the flag of the Ukranian Insurgent Army, a right wing nationalist group. There has been some confusion from folks I know about these images of the protest, imagining that there is a huge anarcho-communist presence.



ahhh... ok. interesting. do they look like anarcho-syndicalist flags?


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## Matt Derrick (Jan 29, 2014)

oh wait, no, found one on wikipedia:


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

I guess they are traditionally horizontally striped, but you see both types, even in the UIA specific marches-


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

I have to admit they look pretty similar to punk demos...


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## Matt Derrick (Jan 29, 2014)

ha, crazy...


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## Cardboard (Jan 29, 2014)

Here is a pretty good article from the anarcho side of things over there,
http://avtonomia.net/2014/01/23/awu-statement-current-political-situation/


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