# Need Some Advice



## mkirby (Oct 14, 2009)

Here's the situation in my life right now.

So basically after traveling all summer, I accomplished what has been my goal for a really long time. I learned to live happily for an extended period of time with virtually nothing. I reduced what I owned to about the contents of regular school-sized backpack. I basically had a spare outfit, a sleeping bag, a tarp, a couple knives, a bag full of shiny rocks (for trade, I've been living with hippies) to my name. Then I decided to make a visit to my hometown.

Right now I'm spending the winter working a shitty job (Taco Time cashier, ugh.) In order to save up for a van and some other stuff. My logic to going back to living indoors and becoming the corporate wage slave I've always hated, is that now that I've sort of awakened myself and had some adventures, now it's time to be an activist. 

I want to take some of my friends out of a bad situation here, and teach them to travel because they're curious about it. I want to set up free kitchens, and communal squats all over the country, liberate all the food and property. I want to distribute psychedelic drugs freely, make crazy artwork, make zines and write songs/poems/stories to talk about m y ideas. I have all these plans and aspirations, and I've gotten it into my head that this'll be much easier if I've got a place to keep all my stuff, and a way to get people from place to place (i.e. the van idea.)

The thing is that I'm probably right to a certain degree. Always having a warm place to sleep and a place to lock up my possessions would be comforting. 

But is what I'm doing compromising all the freedom I've fought for? I'm the chick who has a nervous breakdown every couple of months and throws out everything she owns. I'm scared of having stuff. I've lost so many wallets over the years that I'm beginning to think my subconscious forbids me from using money. And this isn't a bad thing. Morally, I'm very antimaterialistic, and I'm sort of glad I've developed this paranoia about having things.

Now I'm worrying about how I'm going to be tied down by needing money for gas and car insurance, with all my _things_ piled all around me. 

So right now I'm debating scraping the whole idea. Forgetting about filing for taxes, and my polyester uniform, and how I'm going to get gas money, and the goddamn motherfucking DMV and just winging out of here before snow flies. 

I've got some money saved right now, which could being an investment in doing some interesting things. It all sounds pretty appealing at the moment.

But is it just my phobia about becoming one of "them" that's making me consider this? Am I just running away before I accomplish my goals here because I'm afraid? I don't want to quit my job and get fifty miles down the road and go "oh, shit", you know? 

I'm just not sure what I want to do with myself. What do you think?


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## Livingpastense (Oct 14, 2009)

id say maybe stick with your job for a bit see what happens. Im just about at the same crossroads as i got back from travelling all summer and dont even have a job yet. Im about to say fuck a job and keep travellin through winter too. i dunno, if i were you id keep the work and save up a bit then do what you really wanna do. Im not the best at giving advice hope i helped.


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## KoffinKat (Oct 14, 2009)

Relax. which sounds stupid but just chill out and think. I know how you feel in fact i would venture to say there's nigh a person in here that doesn't. But I wouldn't say to scrap a whole idea outta frustration. The downside to traveling and living like this is it very much gets into your head and changes what you know about yourself. You have the burden of knowledge. Yes I can survive, Yes I can do this, its easy for me. And instanly gratifying. Activism takes longer and yes some part of that life and this one which would be difficult to balance. But thats not to say it's a bad idea at all. I very much like the idea of another "ungeren" a people's house. I would say you might want to travel a bit more and meet more people and find out what they know about such things go out and find people who could help with locations, money, information, whatever else even just advise they could lend to your cause.


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## mkirby (Oct 14, 2009)

Yeah I'm thinking stick it out til the New Year then reevaluate with a big pile of cash in the bank...the trick is not going wingnut and skipping town in the meantime.


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## hartage (Oct 14, 2009)

By staying a bit your not building up money. Your building up OPTIONS. If after a while and you have a pile of money you feel you are more happy broke, burn it. If after you buy a van you decide it's not for you burn it. These are options. Having those are better than being forced to do (or not) something because you don't have the choice to do what you really want to do. Being poor and broke is only cool if it was a choice. Not if it is a result of your own personal failures or self-deception.


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## Ravie (Oct 14, 2009)

know what? i used to pop up with rants similar to this one on here all the time. then i realised... ALL of us on here are confused and dont realy know right from wrong, up from down, sane from "sane". ...what I'm getting at, is sit down and get into your head for a couple minutes in silence. drop everything youve learned and know and whatever anyone has ever told you. then, ask yourself what you want. and allways remember to never be afraid of doing anything that feels right to you. and maybe you wont know what you want until you do it, i'm the same way, fuck, there's not very many things i have left to do on my "try shit" list. yet, i'm still sitting here asking myself the same questions i had before i even stuck out my thumb for the first time or even before i had my first beer. none of us know what to do with our selves, we just keep trying different things until something feels right. try working, if you hate it, quit. try rubber tramping, if you cant afford it, sell the van. try college, if its not your thing, oh well. you can do ANYTHING you put your mind to in this world, as long as you know how to pick yourself up when you fuck it up  thats the trick. if that made any sense to you at all and if you ever want to talk give me a pm. ide be glad to rant


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## finn (Oct 14, 2009)

You're not compromising your freedom unless you're getting yourself stuck somewhere, like getting arrested or something similar to that. And I guess there is the fear of getting weighed down with stuff, but you always have the choice to walk away from it. I guess part of the point is that freedom isn't really free, if there are these things you want to do, you're going to have to set down to a degree to do them. For me I really couldn't have a workshop with expensive equipment without having a legit place for them. A single project like a worker-owned collective is a huge undertaking that requires a lot of dedication. You just have to figure out your priorities.


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## oldmanLee (Oct 14, 2009)

Built up a pile of stuff and walked away or used it up or given it away quite a few times,and have come up with the following idea:If you need a hammer,and have one available,would you pick up a rock to do the job?The only thing to remember is what you own verses what owns you,as trite as that may sound.May as well winter up and think on your future projects,plan 'em out a bit,and come spring go for it.The worst thing about money is desiring it,the best thing about it is it can be handy(and easier than toting a dozen live chickens).


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## hartage (Oct 14, 2009)

oldmanLee said:


> best thing about it is it can be handy(and easier than toting a dozen live chickens).



Lol, it's such an easy concept. Money = chickens AND chickens = money as in interchangable or the same thing. But somehow some people think if you have a dozen live chickens your cool and a rebel but if you have money you're a sellout. Well shit, I haven't seen any travlers walking down the street with a dozen live chickens so I guess we're all sellouts eh ?


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## mkirby (Oct 14, 2009)

I think the difference between having money and having a bunch of tradeable shit, is that a dozen live chickens is something tangible. You can aways eat their eggs, or eat them, or pluck out all their feathers and make a pillow, etc. You can't eat money.

The problems begin to occur in the trade system when you replace goods with abstract concepts like the dollar.


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## Ravie (Oct 14, 2009)

i think money was made up as a joke. some guy did a bunch of work for someone and they didnt have anything to give him so they gave him a piece of paper telling him it can buy anything.


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## hartage (Oct 15, 2009)

Money is efficient. I can carry the value of 5,000 or more live chickens in my pocket in money. I can't carry 5,000 live chickens


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## hartage (Oct 15, 2009)

mkirby said:


> I think the difference between having money and having a bunch of tradeable shit, is that a dozen live chickens is something tangible. You can aways eat their eggs, or eat them, or pluck out all their feathers and make a pillow, etc. You can't eat money.
> 
> The problems begin to occur in the trade system when you replace goods with abstract concepts like the dollar.



You can eat money. I do it all the time. Just convert money back to tangible goods then you can consume it. 


The trade system WAS the barter system. Until we got smart enough to figure out that walking around with a dozen live chickens looking for someone else that needs a dozen live chickens that just happens to have what YOU want is just stupid.

Try it yourself. Swear off money period. Go walk around with everything you have and try to trade those for things you need. Let me know how well that works for you.


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## mkirby (Oct 15, 2009)

Assume it becomes impossible to convert your money back into tangible goods? What if I'm the one with all the goods and I refuse to accept it? Or I say you don't have enough?

Stranded in the wilderness I'd be much happier with a sack of rice than a fat wallet.

Money might be convenient, but that's about the only point it scores in my book. A barter system is infinitely better, regardless of what our modern capitalist society has brainwashed you into thinking.


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## hartage (Oct 15, 2009)

mkirby said:


> Assume it becomes impossible to convert your money back into tangible goods? What if I'm the one with all the goods and I refuse to accept it? Or I say you don't have enough?
> 
> Stranded in the wilderness I'd be much happier with a sack of rice than a fat wallet.
> 
> Money might be convenient, but that's about the only point it scores in my book. A barter system is infinitely better, regardless of what our modern capitalist society has brainwashed you into thinking.



First of all it's not brainwashing, it's pure practicality. I just don't want to carry chickens, goats, rabbit pelts or whatever. Too heavy/bulky.

Now in the wilderness you would be right money is worthless. If people refuse to have confidence in money it is worthless. Money is nothing more than a promissory note. Your word if you will. If you tell me you don't/can't believe in money then you also can't believe in trust or someone's word. That is all what money is, someone's word nothing more. But it is also extremely practical. It's just a piece of paper and in electronic form not even that.

Hey, why are we having this conversation ? Burn all your money and refuse to earn any. That is the best way to understand the practicality of money. You really believe in what your telling me then do it. Put your words into practice. Don't be a cheap hypocrite and tell me money is bad while you still use it yourself. Don't tell me I'm brainwashed when you use it too.

I'm serious about this. Just stick to your word and have nothing to do with evil money. I've read about people doing that for a whole year and I thought they were incredible going that long without using money. It would be great to see what your experiences are if you tried the same thing. 

You know what ? screw a year. Can you do it for 6 months ? No, forget about 6 months. How about just through the winter ? Just through the winter have nothing to do with money no earning or using it. Just barter and trade for everything you need. This means no staying under a roof that takes money for rent. It would be incredible to hear what you experienced and what you did. Show me how unbrainwashed you are and how I can improve my life by listening to you and not using money.


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## Ravie (Oct 15, 2009)

i dont know man. I would definately prefer $1000 to 1000 chickens. money doesnt poop in your car and peck at your eyes.

P.S.-dont burn your money, I'll take that devil paper off your hands for you.


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## mkirby (Oct 15, 2009)

You seem to have misunderstood me. 

I'm not attacking you or anyone else to using money. In the present system we have set up it's pretty difficult to live without it. 

I'm just saying that money isn't something I'd include in the kind of world I want to live in, or the one I want to help build.

I don't think it's hypocritical to use money and think it's bad. I think a lot of us make compromises on the way we live our lives in order to get things done and/or avoid jail, stay warm, etc. It comes from having a difference of opinion from the bulk of people in the world about the way we should be doing things.

I agree with you, all money is is someone's word and nothing else. But therein lies the problem. People don't always keep their words, and it's not always your fault when it becomes problematic for you.

Have you seen whats happening with foreclosures in this country? How snake-oil salesmen have tricked people into these adjustable mortgage rates, causing them to lose their homes, thereby causing windows to be boarded up and driving down the property values of other peoples homes, causing more foreclosures and rampant homelessness? This can't happen in a system where we don't use money. 

When you replace food, clothing, shiny things, whatever with little slips of paper that represent them, it opens up all these possibilities for how those slips of paper are handled, and used by certain individuals to accumulate massive amounts of wealth for themselves while leaving other people painfully poor. It creates the kind of fucked-up caste system where the top 1% controls 95% of the wealth. Where a CEO earns 350 times what a blue-collar worker does. 

So don't tell me money is "practical". It's convenient hanging around in your pocket, waiting to be traded for your pack of cigarettes or new coat, perhaps, but not when it's helping to enslave you and further generations.


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## WindWalker1970 (Oct 15, 2009)

Eat the Rich!


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## Rash L (Oct 15, 2009)

do the rich taste good with cock sauce?


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## mkirby (Oct 15, 2009)

Anything tastes good with cock sauce.


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## hartage (Oct 15, 2009)

mkirby said:


> You seem to have misunderstood me.
> 
> I'm not attacking you or anyone else to using money. In the present system we have set up it's pretty difficult to live without it.
> 
> ...



I don't totally disagree with you. The top 1% really does control just about everything. There are issues there but the problem is not in money itself. It's in the laws that govern accumulation of money. Kind of like a dam blocking a river. Don't blame the water, blame the regulation of that water, the dam, for problems.

On the other side I don't totally agree with you either. On enslavement.... I've seen a person go from dad died, mom goes nuts so he gets a foster home. From nothing he puts himself through school with loans. Gets his shit together with a degree in accounting and now has a nice life. Homeowner, and everything. So it can be done. Enslavement isn't totally external. A good part of enslavement is from internal reasons. (our own fuckups)

The barter system. Lets say YOU have a job working at a fast food joint. Will you barter burgers as trade for your labor ? Now you have 30 burgers. Tomorrow you'll have 60 burgers. By the end of the week you'll have 150 burgers. Now what ? Are you gonna haul around 150 burgers looking for a place that wants to take burgers for something YOU need ? Burgers are heavy, gets cold (looses value) and quickly rots (really looses value). Money just sits there untill you're ready to convert it to whatever you need. That is pretty damned practical. There is damned good reason why we left the barter system behind. 

If the barter system is infinitely better, we would still be using it today.


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## hartage (Oct 15, 2009)

Lol, "eat the rich" "cock sauce" you guys are a riot.


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## RenegadeGypsy (Oct 15, 2009)

man o man, do i know how you feel! I am in the same position (except...i dont have a job but am looking), tied down by materials i dont even want but apparently need. The thing is, you gotta look into your brain and see how bad you want this. Life is going to be complicated either way...you could stay at your job get trapped in it or just save enough a split. Or you could split right now and have complications later. I love your ideas about what you want to do...but unfortunately, it will cost some cash. BUT if you're serious about it, the sacrifices will pay off.

Im sorry i didnt give you an answer...but i think you could find it on your own.

I sure hope i do.

Best of luck to you and maybe one day we'll meet and work together on our common goals. 

See you out there :]


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## desaparecido (Oct 16, 2009)

in regards to advice, i'd suggest that you do what i do, and flip a coin. and then when the coin comes up with whatever you'd rather not do, you'll instantly realize that you'd rather not do it and you can go against the coin flip, cause that's what always happens.


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## logan714 (Oct 16, 2009)

Be careful what you ask for.

You know what I hear? I want to do all this shit. But what the fuck do you actually know how to do? How do you plan to obtain the knowledge that is required to do all of the things you say you want to do? 

Now, free food, mobile. DO you know what it actually takes to feed people in a mobile situation without getting them sick? Well, I do. I've been doing it on and off since 1980. It's a very highly specialized skill set. Do you want to learn it? Some of my friends were just in Pittsburg for the G20 feeding people for free. Maybe you saw them on the news. The two diesel school buses. Would you like to go work with them and learn how to do it? I can send an email and make a couple of calls and you can be with them in a couple of days. After you hang out with them for a year and learn what's going on, maybe you'll be prepared to go forward. Some of the other things that you've expressed interest in occur around them also. 

So here is one of those things that happens in life. You're presented with a left turn on the highway of life. Do you wish to take the left?

Logan


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## Ravie (Oct 16, 2009)

i like money. its the only way to buy beer. I tried taking 3 chickens in to get a 40 and they freaked out and called the cops...not sure why...


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## Ravie (Oct 18, 2009)

haha! aww...poor goat.


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## hartage (Oct 18, 2009)

Lol, barbuchon, ravie you guys are a riot


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## Ravie (Oct 18, 2009)

Yeah, I try. *shines nails on shirt*


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## LovelyAcorns (Oct 19, 2009)

hartage said:


> I can carry the value of 5,000 or more live chickens in my pocket in money.



Where do you live? Sounds like a great pickpocketing place.



Mkirby, if one of your goals is to distribute drugs freely, why not just sell a portion of it cheap? Most psychedelics, especially LSD, have a huge profit margin. You could easily make enough to live off of while still dropping the market price of it. Or, sell a less useful drug, like MDMA so that you can freely give out mescaline and LSD.


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## Beegod Santana (Oct 19, 2009)

LovelyAcorns said:


> Mkirby, if one of your goals is to distribute drugs freely, why not just sell a portion of it cheap? Most psychedelics, especially LSD, have a huge profit margin. You could easily make enough to live off of while still dropping the market price of it. Or, sell a less useful drug, like MDMA so that you can freely give out mescaline and LSD.



LSD is free as long as you're real good at telling the person who's selling it that its supposed to be free. Works for me all the time.


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## mkirby (Nov 24, 2009)

Beegod Santana said:


> LSD is free as long as you're real good at telling the person who's selling it that its supposed to be free. Works for me all the time.



Yeah...pretty much. 

"I don't pay for acid anymore, acid comes to me."

"Oh! You figured it out! Awesome, how about a free ten strip."

Idk how many times some verison of this has happened to me in northern California.


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