# WTF is up with" Occupy" Wall Street?



## Redd Capp

I am thinking of going via the next train. I talked to the local protesters in Bing. NY and they seem to want-
1.No Fracking- Local Issue about gas drilling which injectes water into the ground with a cocktail of other chemicals and sand to break shale to get the gas out.
2. Tax the rich- Increase taxes on the 1% who make up the millionares in this country---gee that would be about 3 million or so since we have a population of 300,000,000. Problem is that they are probaly smart enought to know all the tax shelter and havens like Grand Caymen Islands and dummy corperations
3. Abolish Coperate Personhood--Citizens United verses Federal Election Commision ruled that INC.s are people and have the right to free speech and therefore can make unlimited campaign contributions
Okay then if INCs are people then that would mean that if anyone owns a corperation then they are owning another person and owning another person is slavery? Also this might turn around and bite them in the ass because non-profit corps are also people and if they get what they want then non-profit activist groups could not influnce or lobby to get the grants that keep them alive.
4. Roll back the bank baleouts----Where were these guys when the bank baleouts were being given out in the first place? What the feds should have done is takeover the banks and then sell off there assets just like they did with the Savings and Loans in the 1980s
5. 1% sales tax on stock trades----This would raise a lot of revenue but also put a kabash on instutional investors like major university endowment funds that trade a lot that in turn back the schools where these protestors are students in the first place. Yes it would encourage long term investing. My problems with taxes is the more money the Gov has the more creative they are in wasting it.
6. End the war in Iraq and Afgansitan and get our troops the fuck out....Yes I could agree with that but once they get home how do you find jobs for them...You dont want to piss off 150,000 solders who know how to kill at least 70 diffrent ways.


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## Pheonix

What the feds should have done is takeover the banks and then sell off there assets just like they did with the Savings and Loans in the 1980s

bad idea, they assets aren't worth what they claim. if we would have done that the taxpayer would have lost even more money then they did.

what should have happened is nothing at all. we should have let the banks go bankrupt.


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## Earth

Yup, totally agree there....
LET THE POWER FAIL !!!!!!


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## rezmutts

decolonize.. not hard to relearn what we've been taught from family and state.. respect our mother earth and the first nations..


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## Redd Capp

The 1% or more like 5% have enough extra capital to invest in new buisness and infrastructure. None of us as individules have the money to go start our own railroad or airline or computer company. Even those with great ideas like Steve Jobs had to go to the Investment Banks who in turn went to the 1% to give him the money to start up. It is the 1% who have enough money that they can afford to lose to take a chance on a new buisness. Those who ride trains here ride on Warren Buffets railroad. aka Burlington Northern & Santa Fe. Warren Buffett is investing billions of his own cash to rebuild a industry that had been neglected for years. I think it is a simple law of commen sence that you are going to have the cream rise to the top and thats how you have the 1% and that the poor wiill always be among us. You are going to winners and losers. As for the 0% if you can drop off the grid and stop playing the game more power to you. I have a special place in my heart for Monastics and Intentional Communitys like the 12 Tribes. (Good Food! at there cafes!). Those who ride the rails here via Freight and Passenger-Someone has to invest in the tracks and underwrite the bonds that pay the bills and Wall Street makes that happen. What I am afraid of is that if Wall Street goes under someone else in the world will be the center of the Finance World and trading will be done there and they will then turn around and tell us what to do. Already New York City and Chicago downtowns Finance Districts have less people working for them then 10 years ago.I see more tourists then men in suits.


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## Earth

Wall street tells the parent Corp for the factory I labor at that they've increased their earnings expectations 
And the Corp tells the factory to lay off x amount of workers / vend out x amount of jobs because wall st demands it.
Everytime wall st speaks I get the shaft.
Good. I hope they do move, because they aint helping me any.....


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## Earth

ok, I just flashed on something while rocking the pot and figure I should properly qualify my previous comment above.
It's rare I ever re-visit any thread here again a second time, so consider this a treat....

The human who wrote this original post made mention of two brilliant visionaries who have truly done wonderful things, and it can honestly be said that they have made the world a better place.

Now, I am not against anyone making money, even if it's substationally more money than I - but when it becomes criminal,
then I have a problem with it.

The rich need to remember who made them rich: the working man and woman, be it building Blackhawks or Dreamliners or laying down rails, building diesels, computers - anything - it's the worker - the laboror - who makes it happen.

Sure, capital is needed - but so is the talent to make the product, build that railway, etc....
There also needs to be ethical practices in place too, so the little person is not forgotten in the process.

What angers me is when these rich pigs forget who made them rich in the first place and see fit to get rid of their own factory workers etc in favor of using foriegn - even illegials - so they don't have to pay benifits, or pensions, or have epa regs - osha regs etc.... so yeah,

Maybe if Wall St leaves, real estate / cost of living levels will drop back to affordable levels like they once were 

I remember a while back, maybe 25 years ago - there was talk about kicking out the UN from NYC, and we were like yeah - hit the bricks, let the homeless move into that large rectangular building and the rest of the complex be used for the performing arts.

Ah, the glory days...................... gone, but not forgotten !!

Good Post Redd Capp, Respect........................


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## Pheonix

the 1% don't invest their money they invest YOUR money, that's why this happened when they lost money on their risky investments it was YOUR money that was lost and THEY got a bailout.


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## dolittle

Yeah, the 1% hold all the money to keep this country running & moving forward. And just LOOK where it got us. Those corporate do-gooders evicted a 78 yr old woman with the onset of dementshea from her home. Cousing her to loose every item that held her life time of memorys.
Those moneyed angels threw a 54 yr old man with 3rd stage parkasens out on the street. AFTER swendelling him out out of his property.
I know this to be Fact becouse it happened to my Mom & my brother.
Back in the day, the clan or tribe took care of their own. Respecting the elderly. In todays modern, enlightend, Civalized sociaty, if U don't have money to pay for the basics, they take away the things U care about & throw U in a home to be treated like cattle or something.
Yeah, those 1%'ers do a WHOLE LOT of good for this country. 
Oh, did I mention the $7000. I lost when I tryed to invest for our future? $7000. it took me 15 months of scraping & doing with out to save up. Where is our government bailout???? 
Hang the sonabitches!!!


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## Puck

i've been at occupy san antonio for over three weeks and as of last week been hoppin in and out of austin. houston, and new orleans, and i have to say, though i dig the whole autonomous space deal, pacifism (along with liberals, cop-callers, and non-violent elitists) will be the death of occupy. jus sayin.


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## Puck

and fuck reformists


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## Land pirate

All Occupy Ann Arbor did is run the bums out of the park and sleep outside... Not really sure what this proves but at least it smells better..


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## rezmutts

Yeah the one in Abq. is leaning into a more liberal acts. getting permits, thinking cops are there to protect them and double speaking about all indigenous as drunks and threats to the cause.. I had the most interesting talks with my native brother and sisters then the occupiers.. and fuck reformist..


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## Gudj

I'm in Oakland right now and there is actually a large group of non-reformist folks.
Too bad occupyPortland


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## Sjaan

Here in Nebraska we're doing really well, especially with local cops... All I know is that we're in solidarity with OWS but we're also taking local issues into our own hands and working with what we have


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## Redd Capp

What did you invest in that lost 7000.00? My take here is that intrest rates need to rise to a more sane 5-6% low intrest rates are pushing eldery and fixed income into risky stocks and the casinos...at 5% you get 5,000 on a 100,000 in savings which on top of social security could help.(100,000 comes from sale of house and other investments)


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## Draco

Without the 99% the 1% would have no money to invest. Wealth comes from the bottom up not from the other way around as they would have you believe. The 1% is not the job creators. Jobs are created out of need. That need is when the current employees can't keep up with demand. The reason they can't keep up with demand is that the 99% have money and are buying the goods and services. The wealthy never created a job in their lives. No wealthy person has ever said "Oh I am getting a big tax break I don't need I think I will hire someone I don't need just to do something nice for a poor person."


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## TheUndeadPhoenix

Since when is this a political website? OWS I can understand, that's fuckin anarchy. This IS NOT.


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## Strang3RXRMous3

here in occupy tucson we r doing alright... we r gathering people for underground foot soldiers.... so that all aspects and views of the occupiers are covered... we have narks and right now im trying to uncover them from their own issues and run em out.... we have right now people that have their hands to close to those damn rabid doggs mouths because they trust the police too much.... undereducated on how police minds work are leaving our people vulnerable.... as of right now they are trying to run us out and they keep all parks covered with police watch... direct action is being taken to a new level.... we have anarchists and all levels of people on camp site.... at least two weeks ago we had a woman snatched and she was alright we found her after she was pushed out and another young woman dealing with a violent act from two wingnuts... still going on.... a gun was pointed towards myself and another occupier... found out it was unloaded so that went down...... we have people going against corporations and banks.... again direct action.... anyone with fb can see news about occupy tucson foot soldiers on Anon-UnderCity GutterAngel Punxx.... thank you have a goodnight... CAR SICK AS HELL!!!!


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## Puckett

TheUndeadPhoenix said:


> Since when is this a political website? OWS I can understand, that's fuckin anarchy. This IS NOT.



there is a section for anarchism and politics.


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## katbastard

TheUndeadPhoenix said:


> Since when is this a political website? OWS I can understand, that's fuckin anarchy. This IS NOT.


this IS a political website, where the fuck have you been? and it happens to be based on anarchism, at that.


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## dolittle

I had a mix portfolio. From *all most* no risk to hi risk. I'm the only one stupid enough to buy stock. Nither my Mom nor brother has Ever set foot in a casino. Where did we get that $100,000 u mentioned & what house did we sell?? Simple fact, dude. When they were no longer able to work, their income drop below their out going. (house, car payments, food, med's, ect ect...) Along comes the bank to take every thing they had & kick them to the curb. Again, where was their gov bail out? Oh, & did I mention... HANG the sonabitches!!!!!!!


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## Redd Capp

Land is a intresting investment. There are 1 acyer survival farms where you could have goats(far more efficicant then cows for milk and cheese) chickens and a vegi plot. I would not do it in the US though....Canada in BC or Qubec....US gov wants to take your guns away or suspect that you are plotting the next Unabomber plot....Canadians are cool peopl anyway....


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## Nelco

all i read was the thread title..
..no money would be a dream come true


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## TheUndeadPhoenix

Nelco said:


> all i read was the thread title..
> ..no money would be a dream come true


^^^^^^ THIS


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## Redd Capp

Back on track here, I am trying to play the devils advocate here and say that despite what some would assume here the founding fathers were anything but anarcists. They had a investment in this country in land and slaves-(A good healthy slave would be worth a Lexus in todays dollars.)
Being a farmer or plantation owner was a risky buisness(Thom. Jefferson) or a Industrialist (Sam Adams- Brewer) or a Entrapranuier (Benjiman Frankilin-Not just a printer but invented a a way to start the first printing franchise aka the first Kinkos of his day..Or a Banker (John Handcock).
What they wanted is to be able to run there own show and set the profits without the king limiting what they could charge or sell too.
Now on the other hand there were Religuise Communes like the Shakers and the Amish where things were shared in common. But they had strict rules on personal behavoir in there commnitys and how they could relate with the outside or the english. Those of you (including myself) who have spent time working in 12 Tribes houses know or should know what I am talking about here.
What happens either invidualy or collectivly is that when someone takes a risk (like our founding fathers did or when someone buys a share of stock in a new company) they expect to collect the rewards of that risk in the form of a sort of rental payment for lending out there money and time.
Up unitill the time of Karl Marx the workers were just putting there time in and collecting there weekly paycheck and they had not invested there gold in to the operation or the start of the buisness. If there mill went under they just went across the street to the next mill and worked there . They did not lose there house and there shirt........Where we fucked up in 2008 is that employees 401 k were invested in there own companys stock (like enron was)
and that was a conflict of intrest.....On the other hand those with 401ks were ignorant of the fact that they could ask questions and have some say in how there companys were run. (Just as Karl Marx intended) because they were part owners. It is a ethical issue as to if the management took avantage of that ignorance. The 1% looks at themselves as the enlighted ones whoes job is to invest and shepard the capital by giving to Philatraopy and investing the public money in the right companys. They beileve if they wernt around the working class would spend all there money on beer potato chips and porn!!........We need to bring back the Carnegies and the Rockfellers and Pew Foundation and send the yuppies to the doghouse. We need capailists who build hospitals railroads and Colleges.


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## Redd Capp

In AZ do something about humane prison condistions and private prisons


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## Strang3RXRMous3

you know we r getting there as well its just a matter of time before that can happen... right now we r dealing with foreclosed homes... i do agree with you definitly but as one person without other consensus there is nothing i can do as one person... i would love to have people volunteer to help out with that because the prison conditions are terrible and even juvenile prisons, jail, etc. are awful and something needs to be done about it... as direct action being taken about it there would need to be consensus about such along with volunteers to protest along with others... right now we r dealing with many other issues along with foreclosures...


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## Redd Capp

Yes but in AZ Maricopa County Sheriff needs to go to jail for what he is doing to those prisoners out there....some poor drunk gets busted on the light rail without a ticket and he ends up in that hell out there.


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## Redd Capp

http://www.rootsontherails.com/roots-on-the-rails-trips-2012-portland-rose-with-tom-russell

Gee 4,000.00 ---- thats worth at least 4 ocean cruises and a whole year riding the cushions on Amtrak and Via Rail


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## CXR1037

Good for them, glad they enjoyed it!


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## nuckfumbertheory

invest in a garden, invest in your family, invest in some good tools, invest in learning new skills. thr money bullshit skeems will come to an end some day, be ready.


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## nuckfumbertheory

OWS is the most important thing going on. (all the small town versions included) Everybody get out in the streets.


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## shiftingGEARS

abolish the whole fucking system, be self reliant and stop sucking the governments dick !


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## Yell

as a first day-er of the occupation on wall street, my goal is to smash the state. and to end corporate personhood.


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## katiehabits

the occupy in Montreal is being run by the "People's militia of Quebec" a right wing neo-fascist separatist group who is trying to push out the anarchists and the sharp skins. the GA's are NOT being run by consensus big decisions can be made by a group of 75 but the camp has at least 250 or more currently. the militia is threatening the sharp skins with violence; they know their full names and where they live. it's fucked!

AND occupy toronto is full of bat-shit CRAZIES! the camp is grouped up by the drugs folks are useing and the level of neo-liberalism they live by. the organization of the camp it's self is well put together but the level of control that folks within the camp try to exersie on others is fucked. my friends and me where allmost beat up for leting people express themselves around us while we stated that the rest of camp was not a free speech zone, cuz well it just isn't. the bat-shit crazies allso wake you up at all times in the night and morning playing fucking hippy drums screaming it's an emeremce. the mayor of toronto Rob Ford who is a fat selfish pig elected by the suburbs and not the people who live in toronto proper gave out an eviction notice on the 17th. the actual eviction is going to take place tonight.


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## Ash Ketchum

I've been to NY,DC, Orlando, and now I am in San Antonio. What seems to be the story from my perception is that we're basically protesting everything in our current system. It varies from person to person, but most people at the occupations that I've spoken to would agree that nearly every aspect of our system is corrupt and that it needs to be changed or just abolished. Also MOST people at the occupations that I have met are intelligent and know how to share ideas and listen to others.
There are of course people at occupations who are just ignorant. People who get into petty shit with other people that has nothing to do with our occupation....these are usually the people who have no idea why they are at the occupation and if you ask them why they are there they'll say something like "I agree with the cause... its a good cause." If you attempt to inquire more you'll get nothing. They are there for the party. Then there are the people who think that just because they are the most comfortable facilitating General Assemblies they have the right to act like they have superiority in every other aspect of the occupy.
This movement is VERY important, but there is not enough balance in the movement. I've noticed a lot of people are either apathetic or egotistical. Part of the idea behind the movement is that we are working as one. We are the 99%. The movement will get stronger once people become more educated and people get past the silly shit.
I'm very optimistic, but I do realize that this could all just go the opposite way and then I'll just be fucking sad.


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## Strang3RXRMous3

Redd Capp said:


> Yes but in AZ Maricopa County Sheriff needs to go to jail for what he is doing to those prisoners out there....some poor drunk gets busted on the light rail without a ticket and he ends up in that hell out there.


yes i definitely agree with you on that one... Joseph Arpaio is a sick demented bastard that i have been following up on. I mean his background history which would be military, childhood, etc. backgrounds. It looks pristine but looks can be deceiving as well. My personal interest is to take him out from any possible governmental job which is to find a weak link in the chains of his past history. If I can find that and put it in front of the public eye, maybe that would be a start in demolishing this government. I have a strong belief that he is one of the main links to an intricately woven deception that looks to be impossible to break through.


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## Redd Capp

http://freemasonry-watch.blogspot.com/2008/11/barack-obama-prince-hall-freemasonry.html
BTW Skull and Bones is a branch of freemasons and Prince Hall is the black section of freemasons


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## Redd Capp

He was acosted in DC by the white house by a protester see-
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-ore...ed-himself-i-mightve-invited-him-on-the-show/

Bill refered to the protester as an anarchist and the Occupy movement as an anarchist movement.
Well....If the right wing Republicans truly believe in less Gov. then you would think that they would embrace such a movement,
from Wikipedia-
*Anarchism* is generally defined as the political philosophy which holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful,[1][2] or alternatively as opposing authority in the conduct of human relations.[3][4][5][6][7][8] Proponents of anarchism (known as "anarchists") advocate stateless societies based on non-hierarchical[3][9][10] voluntary associations.[11][12]


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## Redd Capp

As for me..I like having some Gov.--Having the streets,subways,power and light and welfare when things get tight.(Have not had a a EBT card for 5 years). Hell having a warm clean jail cell to sober up is a gov. service that I use from time to time...My vote for the sherrif who wants to replace any jail thats 50 years out of date that is inhumane. anarchist assumes that the general pop will do the job of gov. Well imagine that the populace has decided to drag you out of bed at 5 am and tell you that it is YOUR turn to do trash collection this week. Public Works would be like a draft system under an anarchist system. Police,Bus drivers,teachers,sewer cleaners, its your town you get to do the dirty work.


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## NM Black Cross Medic

rezmutts said:


> Yeah the one in Abq. is leaning into a more liberal acts. getting permits, thinking cops are there to protect them and double speaking about all indigenous as drunks and threats to the cause.. I had the most interesting talks with my native brother and sisters then the occupiers.. and fuck reformist..


Yeah, Burque was kind of fucked, you pretty much nailed all the issues we had here. I use "had" because we've actually handled most of them (to some extent). Radicals have actually started to be much more vocal and as a result, reformists have had much less success convincing us to back reforms or candidates (a move called "co-opting"). We've actually got plans in the works, which I won't give to many details for, to start a new encampment by the end of February, no permit, no police, no bullshit.

Most people in the local movement are pretty clear about the true nature of capitalism, but we've still yet to cross the "fuck corporate media" hurdle.


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## NM Black Cross Medic

Redd Capp said:


> Yes but in AZ Maricopa County Sheriff needs to go to jail for what he is doing to those prisoners out there....some poor drunk gets busted on the light rail without a ticket and he ends up in that hell out there.


Occupy Phoenix has been giving Arpaio shit since day one. They're actually one of the better encampments I've seen as far as people go and the Phoenix Urban Health Collective kicks ass and is fully behind OPHX. Radicals in Phoenix don't come out to play much, but when they do the cops start to shit themselves.


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## Strang3RXRMous3

NM Black Cross Medic said:


> Occupy Phoenix has been giving Arpaio shit since day one. They're actually one of the better encampments I've seen as far as people go and the Phoenix Urban Health Collective kicks ass and is fully behind OPHX. Radicals in Phoenix don't come out to play much, but when they do the cops start to shit themselves.


if there was a button that says i just love the hell out of what you said i would not be clicking like!!! im glad you think so highly of occupy phoenix... our 24/7 has shut down and g.a.'s cut down to a quick... and arpaio ha!!! that ass has been getting more than shit... especially from those who dealt with him on a rather personal level or just the fact that they got thrown into his jail and got treated like shit... and marty atencio that poor guy.... *shakes head* got killed in his jail... and the phoenix urban health collective are amazing... they have amazing training sessions... i hope to go to the next one myself.... the last time i went went through the 20 hours and applied it... felt a hella better knowing they taught me something and they did pretty damn well... i even have friends amongst them myself... thanks for all those compliments for ophx!!!


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## NM Black Cross Medic

The compliments are well-deserved. I spent a week with that crew for the ALEC conference. I'm so stoked to see the PUHC and the Phoenix radicals for G8. I decided to say goodbye with "see you at G8" in the tradition of seattle WTO's "see you at IMF".


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## Strang3RXRMous3

i was at the alec conference for the second day not the first i was too sick for that... puhc is amazing they were helpful in what i know today thats for sure!!!


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## NM Black Cross Medic

Strang3RXRMous3 said:


> i was at the alec conference for the second day not the first i was too sick for that... puhc is amazing they were helpful in what i know today thats for sure!!!


Damn, the first one was intense. The Black Bloc saved all our asses. I've since developed a personal vendetta against ALEC, which has lead to a natural talent for getting the shit kicked out of me without getting incapacitated. That should come in handy running as a frontline medic in Chicago. I have every intention of Going to DNC and ALEC's next conference in DC (N28). I've gotten REALLY good at radical activism and I highly recommend summit hopping as a way to travel.


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## Raging Bird

You can't own a corporation, you just serve some function within one.


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