# The modern american liberal



## Deleted member 3948 (May 14, 2020)

I know opinions are like assholes and, everyone has one. Beside that point, i decided to share mines anyway. When i first met the modern american liberal, we agreed. They spoke about gender equality, and respect for gender identity, and i respect, respect. Then i met WOKE, and terms like cis white male, and white privilege. I think even before that the term cultural appropriation was prevalent. At these points in my life i realized the fascist temperaments and tendencies that tend to tag along with these doctrines. If you do not agree, then you are in the wrong. If you do not act the way we think is proper, then you are in the wrong. You see, i am not saying things like racism do not exist, i am saying that i have listened too more racism coming out of the mouths of new liberal's towards "white" people and the privilege that they ALL supposedly have, than i have heard in my life. So during Co-vid i have watched more t.v than i think an anarchist ever should. I now know woke culture is within popular culture. Great. Now the sheep like aspects of human kind can add this new form of hate speech to their ideals. I probably sound harsh, and maybe these liberal types are not all facsists shoving what they believe is right down the throats of the unsuspecting victims of american culture. Yet, as a brown, omnisexual, anarchist, who believes in freedom, i know that the n word is apart of the jargon of some and detested by others. Faggot can be used facetiously without a person meaning no harm or could be used as an attack on someone. I know that growing up with shows like family guy and the simpsons has made some violently sarcastic mother fuckers who dont want to change their sense of humor. I think its not what you say its what you mean, and i believe in meeting people where there at, and WOKE culture is not where every one wants to be. My problem with this culture is the fact that, i have noticed alot of people who want others to see their point of view, but do not want to see other peoples because anything other than their point of view is incorrect. 

Whateva, Whateva 
This is my fault for watching t.v UGHHHHHH


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## Coywolf (May 14, 2020)

Ya, the left is pissing me off almost as much as the right ATM....Especially with the division within our own ranks, and the competition to be 'more liberal' like it's some sort of contest. I feel this was a big reason for the dow fall of the Sanders campaign...again.

But seriously. The privilage is fucking real. Karen and Kyle have been in the spotlight recently for pretty substantiated reasons.

All I know is, showing obvious biased hate against a group of people, for any reason other than them oppressing the masses, is going to be met by me with logic and embarrassing sarcasm, until those fuckers either see the other side of their argument, or get laughed out of the room.

That is how fascism begins...on the right OR left.


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## Beegod Santana (May 14, 2020)

Neo-liberalism has failed sideways. Everyone knows it's fucked but the best alternatives we seem to be offered are failed ideologies from 160 yrs ago.


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## Deleted member 3948 (May 14, 2020)

The idea of white privilege, i think, is a reflection of american culture that could afflict anyone born within certain circumstances. I once worked as a janitor at a all brown college, where a brown man hosting a college ceremony treated me like donkey shit because i did not know the dining hall was closed. He could simply of said, im sorry m'am the dining hall is closed, but instead he treated me like i was feces.

White priviliege constitutes the idea that only "white people" have access to american privilege which is incorrect. Their are probably more brown people in america dealing with poverty and violence, racism is still prevalent in some american communities. Change in america for brown communities is a slow progression, but we must remember that segregation ended in 1954 and america has come a long way since then,. It still has a ways to go, while america changes more people are accessing Americas wealth. More people are developing the classist attitudes of superiority and entitlement, these people come of many different skin colours. I believe that future bridges to American wealth will reach even more communities, and more assholes will be born.


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## roughdraft (May 14, 2020)

Coywolf said:


> Karen and Kyle have been in the spotlight recently for pretty substantiated reasons.
> 
> All I know is, showing obvious biased hate against a group of people, for any reason other than them oppressing the masses, is [.....] how fascism begins



so how is it that this entire Kyle and Karen demographic show obvious biased hate against a group of people? 

Is that not what you're showing by alluding to this "Kyle and Karen" group in this sequence? 

Maybe it'd be out of line to assume 'obvious biased hate' is your intention here, maybe that's a stretch and my reading comprehension is flawed - but maybe too, that's what you wanted to express. I'd be interested to know.


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## Coywolf (May 15, 2020)

....I think you are reading waaaay more into Kyle and Karen than you should.

Anyone can be named Kyle or Karen. It is a term used to describe dumbass, ignorant, privilaged, people.

Privilage doesnt just come from white people. Privilage comes from wealth, childhood experience, access to healthcare, access to education, ect.

Hence me 'the privilage is fucking real' I've experience that shit way more than I ever would have cared to.

And no, it isint showing hate towards them, it is a form of public shaming when reason and logic fail to educate them on why people view their opinion as ridiculous.


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## roughdraft (May 15, 2020)

Coywolf said:


> ....I think you are reading waaaay more into Kyle and Karen than you should.
> 
> Anyone can be named Kyle or Karen. It is a term used to describe dumbass, ignorant, privilaged, people.
> 
> ...



Was i reading way too much into it? Or were you being way too vague? I feel like it's pretty obvious that you were being vague, at least for my slow ass ;-) so i asked for clarification, which was reasonable, again IMHO. I didn't intend to be rude or smarmy about it.

So for you "Kyle and Karen" represent hyper-privileged folks. I hadn't heard these terms before.

Yes, of course all people aren't the same based on their skintone, it's all the things you mentioned and more, it's complex enough. Nepotism, a panorama of tangible and intangible resources, mental health, physical features.. etc..

Yeah the whole "ignorance is bliss" gets pretty fuckin problematic, and how people would rather fiercely protect their own ignorance than open up to other people's issues. It seems to me backwards and even self-defeating.

One problem is though, my observation - the kind of rhetoric that "its the privileged who are oppressing me!!" leads to some innocent people, or to say people who are also oppressed, being targeted and abused - or worse, which is exactly what the real oppressors want - the oppressed eating each other alive, puppetry, you know?

Anyway, I'm not here to make enemies, I'm genuinely curious about how other people see this shit.

EDIT: Privilege is probably the word I've butchered spelling the absolute most in my life, fuckin hell


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## townes (May 16, 2020)

Roxy said:


> I know opinions are like assholes and, everyone has one. Beside that point, i decided to share mines anyway. When i first met the modern american liberal, we agreed. They spoke about gender equality, and respect for gender identity, and i respect, respect. Then i met WOKE, and terms like cis white male, and white privilege. I think even before that the term cultural appropriation was prevalent. At these points in my life i realized the fascist temperaments and tendencies that tend to tag along with these doctrines. If you do not agree, then you are in the wrong. If you do not act the way we think is proper, then you are in the wrong. You see, i am not saying things like racism do not exist, i am saying that i have listened too more racism coming out of the mouths of new liberal's towards "white" people and the privilege that they ALL supposedly have, than i have heard in my life. So during Co-vid i have watched more t.v than i think an anarchist ever should. I now know woke culture is within popular culture. Great. Now the sheep like aspects of human kind can add this new form of hate speech to their ideals. I probably sound harsh, and maybe these liberal types are not all facsists shoving what they believe is right down the throats of the unsuspecting victims of american culture. Yet, as a brown, omnisexual, anarchist, who believes in freedom, i know that the n word is apart of the jargon of some and detested by others. Faggot can be used facetiously without a person meaning no harm or could be used as an attack on someone. I know that growing up with shows like family guy and the simpsons has made some violently sarcastic mother fuckers who dont want to change their sense of humor. I think its not what you say its what you mean, and i believe in meeting people where there at, and WOKE culture is not where every one wants to be. My problem with this culture is the fact that, i have noticed alot of people who want others to see their point of view, but do not want to see other peoples because anything other than their point of view is incorrect.
> 
> Whateva, Whateva
> This is my fault for watching t.v UGHHHHHH



Well put. You have articulated the feelings of many people in re: to the toxic effects of identity politics.

As a white person I have learned that whenever the holy trinity of the terms "person of color" "cis white male" and "cultural appropriation" come into play during a conversation it's time for me to slowly back away and quietly shut the door behind me. (On the feminist topics: I have the same reaction to "mansplaining" and "manarchist" ) Just put your hands where they can see them and slowly. Back. Away. From the conversation.

This attitude is driving so many young white men into the far right extremist circles of influence.


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## sewerowl (May 16, 2020)

There are many critiques of identity politics from an anarchist perspective. We just have to get those into kids hands before the far right pushes their answers onto them. Bcuz if a kid rightly critiques an overly simplified political analysis and they see our side maintaining the poor logic while another side critiquing it, they'll naturally go to the side that they see making better arguments.


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## LuckyMinnie (May 16, 2020)

Roxy said:


> I know opinions are like assholes and, everyone has one. Beside that point, i decided to share mines anyway. When i first met the modern american liberal, we agreed. They spoke about gender equality, and respect for gender identity, and i respect, respect. Then i met WOKE, and terms like cis white male, and white privilege. I think even before that the term cultural appropriation was prevalent. At these points in my life i realized the fascist temperaments and tendencies that tend to tag along with these doctrines. If you do not agree, then you are in the wrong. If you do not act the way we think is proper, then you are in the wrong. You see, i am not saying things like racism do not exist, i am saying that i have listened too more racism coming out of the mouths of new liberal's towards "white" people and the privilege that they ALL supposedly have, than i have heard in my life. So during Co-vid i have watched more t.v than i think an anarchist ever should. I now know woke culture is within popular culture. Great. Now the sheep like aspects of human kind can add this new form of hate speech to their ideals. I probably sound harsh, and maybe these liberal types are not all facsists shoving what they believe is right down the throats of the unsuspecting victims of american culture. Yet, as a brown, omnisexual, anarchist, who believes in freedom, i know that the n word is apart of the jargon of some and detested by others. Faggot can be used facetiously without a person meaning no harm or could be used as an attack on someone. I know that growing up with shows like family guy and the simpsons has made some violently sarcastic mother fuckers who dont want to change their sense of humor. I think its not what you say its what you mean, and i believe in meeting people where there at, and WOKE culture is not where every one wants to be. My problem with this culture is the fact that, i have noticed alot of people who want others to see their point of view, but do not want to see other peoples because anything other than their point of view is incorrect.
> 
> Whateva, Whateva
> This is my fault for watching t.v UGHHHHHH


I think a lot of people have just forgotten how to have a civil discussion. And I think many, not all, modern liberals tend to feel like they are fighting a battle of good vs evil. Therefore they have demonized those who disagree or even just ask a simple question. Since they perceive those who dare to question as being downright evil, they don't bother to have a rational discussion. Instead it just turns into name calling, and automatically dismissing anything the other person says. And then add white supremacists to the mix. It really does look like there's been a rise in white supremacist groups the past several years. And look at the hate speech on the internet. It used to be where if you give someone a few shots of whiskey, their true nature will come out. Now you just need to give them a keyboard. These white supremacists give the extremists on the left a lot of ammo. Pretty soon you've got people on the far left attacking people on the far right and vice versa. Those who would just like to reasonably talk about a few issues are left sitting on the sidelines in utter disbelief of the shitshow political debate has become. Frankly, I just don't do politics. I don't talk about politics. I don't care about politics. My life is happier without politics. And really, if you get caught up in politics, you are submitting to this bullshit government. I'm not going to argue about who I want to rule over me, because I don't think any human should rule over another human.


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## LuckyMinnie (May 16, 2020)

Roxy said:


> The idea of white privilege, i think, is a reflection of american culture that could afflict anyone born within certain circumstances. I once worked as a janitor at a all brown college, where a brown man hosting a college ceremony treated me like donkey shit because i did not know the dining hall was closed. He could simply of said, im sorry m'am the dining hall is closed, but instead he treated me like i was feces.
> 
> White priviliege constitutes the idea that only "white people" have access to american privilege which is incorrect. Their are probably more brown people in america dealing with poverty and violence, racism is still prevalent in some american communities. Change in america for brown communities is a slow progression, but we must remember that segregation ended in 1954 and america has come a long way since then,. It still has a ways to go, while america changes more people are accessing Americas wealth. More people are developing the classist attitudes of superiority and entitlement, these people come of many different skin colours. I believe that future bridges to American wealth will reach even more communities, and more assholes will be born.


White privilege exists, even among very poor white people. Although, it's pretty sad that we consider not being abused by the police to be a privilege. I remember when I was about 13 in Dallas. I was loitering and bored. A black boy from a nearby apartment complex started a conversation with me. We wound up stealing some cases of soda that was stacked up outside a convenience store. I know, it was a stupid thing to do. We were young and stupid. The cops were called. The boy was able to jump over a fence. I wasn't. I didn't get into any trouble, though. The cops dumped out my weed. They gave me a lecture and went on. I have no idea what happened to the boy. I hope he made it home safely. If they ever caught up to him, would he be treated as kindly by the officers as I was? I don't know. I can only speculate. I suspect he would have been treated differently.


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## LuckyMinnie (May 16, 2020)

LuckyMinnie said:


> White privilege exists, even among very poor white people. Although, it's pretty sad that we consider not being abused by the police to be a privilege. I remember when I was about 13 in Dallas. I was loitering and bored. A black boy from a nearby apartment complex started a conversation with me. We wound up stealing some cases of soda that was stacked up outside a convenience store. I know, it was a stupid thing to do. We were young and stupid. The cops were called. The boy was able to jump over a fence. I wasn't. I didn't get into any trouble, though. The cops dumped out my weed. They gave me a lecture and went on. I have no idea what happened to the boy. I hope he made it home safely. If they ever caught up to him, would he be treated as kindly by the officers as I was? I don't know. I can only speculate. I suspect he would have been treated differently.


I know there can be classism and racism among brown and black people. That should be addressed, too. But white privilege is a real thing. Even among poor white people. When I see a well educated black man getting treated worse than I know I would have in that situation, I know I have privilege. I am a petite white woman, and always perceived to be harmless. That is privilege based not on anything I've earned, but simply by how I was born.


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