# Getting money on the road, do ethics matter?



## Kim Chee (Jul 23, 2014)

After awhile on the road, you're sure to notice people who don't get their money, food, gas, drugs or clothes like you do. Some of these ways may go against what you know to be right as you see it. 

I was wondering:
What do you do/others do that is unethical?
Do you feel guilty about how you get what you need/want?
Have your methods ever caused problems to yourself or others?
Do you justify your methods with the excuse that you are poor?


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## Kim Chee (Jul 23, 2014)

I have been in a variety of different situations on the road which required me to do things I would otherwise consider unethical. I don't have any vices and am fairly tough, so I normally don't give in to simple wants. Needs are a different matter and I do know the difference between wants and needs. 

I'll add more if this thread goes anywhere.


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## urchin (Jul 23, 2014)

I will steal from a big box store but never from a small or regional chain. I don't deal drugs nor do I just take what someone gives me if I don't need it or won't use it (I'm a vegan so food is one area). I definitely refuse sex offers of any kind. Beyond that I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.


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## Traveler (Jul 23, 2014)

My ethics... Stealing from corporations is fine. Stealing from individuals is not. Though I always try to find ways to not steal at all as it puts me at risk of becoming govt property.


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## Dameon (Jul 23, 2014)

I've never really made money while traveling in any way that violates my ethics. My signs are honest when I fly ("Travelin' broke and hungry", at least one of those is true, and the others will be true in the near future), and if somebody tries to give me money while I'm on my way to get beer, or have just gotten beer, I've always told them. Strangely, that's never stopped them from giving me money. 

I've shoplifted, and I have no problem stealing from the Wal-Marts and Targets of the world. They've stolen plenty from me, in their own way, and are soulless, heartless entities. That are now apparently as valid a person as me. Never stolen from anywhere for profit, though, so that doesn't even really fall under the thread's subject.

Never stolen from an individual, or a small store. Never had to hurt anybody else to get mine.

Ethics definitely matter; I don't trust people I see scamming others or stealing for money. What they're willing to do to somebody else, they're willing to do to me, within limits. Of course, ethics cost, too...lord knows I've seen enough good, simple scams now that I could use to make a lot more money than I do busking. But I've never needed money enough to have to do more than ask for it.


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## buffalobill (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm now a hobo yet or doing much traveling besides were I can get I'm my neighbor hood but I've done my share of reasonable unethical crimes and it is common for me to only feel bad more blundered after I was caught but I'm reasonable and I hardly take anything I can't use and I see my self as a fairly simple person so I don't use much but it is easy to get greedy and sometimes you take wayyyy to much candy haha and none of my crimes really turn a profit I've found those ones are much riskier.


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## Kim Chee (Jul 23, 2014)

urchin said:


> I don't deal drugs nor do I just take what someone gives me if I don't need it or won't use it (I'm a vegan so food is one area).



So you don't follow the unwritten street rule that you always accept anything offered?
Neither do I.



Traveler said:


> My ethics... Stealing from corporations is fine. Stealing from individuals is not. Though I always try to find ways to not steal at all as it puts me at risk of becoming govt property.



I don't typically resort to stealing. I'd like to think that if I needed something that I'd steal from whomever...large corporations being high on the list with little old ladies being last with preference given in that order. In all honesty, I think stealing is a bad idea anyway. If the corporation is not available, but an individual has an item you need, would you then steal from an individual or decide that you don't need something so bad?



Dameon said:


> ?..and if somebody tries to give me money while I'm on my way to get beer, or have just gotten beer, I've always told them. Strangely, that's never stopped them from giving me money.



Sounds like people are rewarding your honesty...awesome.



buffalobill said:


> ...I don't use much but it is easy to get greedy and sometimes you take wayyyy to much candy haha and none of my crimes really turn a profit I've found those ones are much riskier.



@Dameon mentioned stealing for profit as well. I'll agree that it is greed, which in my book is continually wanting more than you need or have.


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## Traveler (Jul 23, 2014)

mmmmmmmichael said:


> I don't typically resort to stealing. I'd like to think that if I needed something that I'd steal from whomever...large corporations being high on the list with little old ladies being last with preference given in that order. In all honesty, I think stealing is a bad idea anyway. If the corporation is not available, but an individual has an item you need, would you then steal from an individual or decide that you don't need something so bad?



Stealing is never for wants. If it's something I need and stores don't have it but an individual does, I ask. If they say no then I'm willing to suffer for morals. I find an honest tact will usually work though.


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## Tude (Jul 23, 2014)

Cool and interesting topic thar mmmmmmmmmmmichael!


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## crow (Jul 23, 2014)

The way i see it, major corporations can handle a nibble. Stealing from an individual is absolutely wrong. But either way, my conscience wont let me do it. Id rather ask for what i need. Its humialating (sp?) But a beggars pride is in knowing they are not a theif. Granted, i wont judge friends for ripping off major chains, may even take joy in the spoils. But i will not tolerate "purse snatchers". Eh, ethics are tricky. If im flying, or spanging, i will be honest. But many ppl have screwed it up (3 kids n hungry) and noone rly believes what youre saying


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## Kim Chee (Jul 23, 2014)

Tude said:


> Cool and interesting topic thar mmmmmmmmmmmichael!


I was amazingly inspired by some discussion earlier, thanks



crow said:


> But a beggars pride is in knowing they are not a theif.



The lesser of two evils, I suppose. I'm not sure if it is pride, but I actually feel better when I work for what I get. 
Too bad itinerant work is getting more and more difficult to come by, just like decent paying jobs are for the mainstream.


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## urchin (Jul 24, 2014)

Michael: Nope. If someone wants to help they can ask if I need it and if so, they should ask how. Otherwise they are making it about them. For all they know I can have a life-threatening allergy. Just because I am poor doesn't mean I have to take someone's scraps, especially if don't need them.


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## EphemeralStick (Jul 24, 2014)

I find my ethics can be a bit self serving. At least they were while traveling. While on the road I would sometimes fall back on turning a trick when I'm in need. Depending on the type of person I was dealing with I would either be grateful or a total ass. I'd steal from the rotten guys who would pick me up but if they were genuinely nice folk I'd do my best to resist being a thief. I'll admit sometimes I'd slip up and steal from those who didn't deserve it but I would always justify it with the logic of "well they paid me for sex so they must suck at life".


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## Kim Chee (Jul 24, 2014)

@EphemeralStick: while stationed in Germany, a friend of mine went to the brothel indicating he'd like two women. When they settled into a room, he had one of them riding cowgirl (yehaaa) and the other was squishing sloppy ninths in his face. While they had him pretty well distracted, his wallet was gone through and they got what they wanted. I think stealing from clients might not be an uncommon practice amongst sex workers.


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## MEOW (Jul 24, 2014)

How do you guys feel about pickpocketing yuppies? 

I've dabbled in pickpocketing several years ago when I was really into magic for some reason (lol)

I've been unsure on practicing this again and taking it to the streets for ethical reasons.


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## Deleted member 2626 (Jul 24, 2014)

Walk around neighborhoods and ask if any cheap.help is needed. Drive thru for laying change. Dropped money at fairs - learned that from a young kid and his cane walking grandma while hitch hiking a couple of weeks ago


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## Kim Chee (Jul 24, 2014)

MEOW said:


> I've been unsure on practicing this again and taking it to the streets for ethical reasons.



Haha. You mean jail time or getting your ass kicked isn't good enough reason?



Tatanka said:


> Walk around neighborhoods and ask if any cheap.help is needed. Drive thru for laying change. Dropped money at fairs - learned that from a young kid and his cane walking grandma while hitch hiking a couple of weeks ago


The good old-fashioned groundscore. Yes!
I've found change in drive throughs...be aware that your image will likely be recorded (not that they'll hand it to the police, but you never know).

...I also like the idea of drumming up work. I bet you have a ton of stories where it worked out better than you expected.


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## Deleted member 2626 (Jul 24, 2014)

Down for pick pocketing. Heard NYC was bad for that never had it happen but I also am no yuppie and probably never sufficed for target


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## Kim Chee (Jul 24, 2014)

Tatanka said:


> Down for pick pocketing. Heard NYC was bad for that never had it happen but I also am no yuppie and probably never sufficed for target



Down as in you'd do it or down as in you disapprove of the activity?


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## Dameon (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't think pick pocketing is generally cool...you don't know what you might be taking from the person you're stealing from. Even if they look classy, I've managed to look yuppie-ish many a time while traveling just by groundscoring nice clothes in nice neighborhoods. You might be taking their last bit of cash, and what about the pain of losing the stuff in your wallet?

If you're going to steal from other people, and use sleight of hand, just get a partner to be your shill, and do the shell game. At least then the marks are volunteering. I've watched people literally rack up hundreds of dollars in under an hour doing it. I wouldn't do it myself, because it's a con and I hate cons, but at least it's slightly more honest than straight up theft.


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## Deleted member 2626 (Jul 26, 2014)

pick pocketing . . i dont know. . Ill never do it but anyway, yeah mmmmicahel I found steady everyday work for a lesbian dentist from walking around and asking for work. the first time I worked for her I worked a few hours, got paid cash and a free sub for dinner and she let the dog hang out. then she gave me steady work at her dentist office. It turned sour kind of but was a neat experience and money producer


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## notOK (Jul 28, 2014)

Ain't a damn thing wrong with a con, cause like P.T.Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute. People wanna blow cash everyday on scratch offs, but only the gov't gets that low-hanging fruit? Fuck that noise, says I! I always got dice and they ain't even loaded usually. 

Slanging random bits of junk with a story, no harm in it. Tend not to steal shit, but I won't deny jacking a preg test to shut a gal the fuck up. But I don't steal, even from corporations, cause I can always find a way to get mine. Way I figure, I'm a dadgum millionaire, just having a buncha folks hold a little bit of my scratch til I need it. Likewise, the cash in my pocket is some other cat's so I gotta throw it back to 'em, else the whole cipher implodes.


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## Corinne (Jul 30, 2014)

i steal water to prevent dehydration


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## Traveler (Jul 30, 2014)

Corinne said:


> i steal water to prevent dehydration


Where do you steal it from?


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## Corinne (Jul 30, 2014)

public buildings and houses


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## Kim Chee (Jul 30, 2014)

This thread is entitled: getting money on the road, do ethics matter?

I'm sure you have experiences to share which are actually about money.

If not, thanks.


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## Kim Chee (Jul 30, 2014)

Ma'am, @Corinne, kindly accept your licks for not staying on topic here.
If you'd like to discuss how you steal water, perhaps you can start your own thread.

Your understanding is appreciated.


***edit***
I apologize...

I should have mentioned water....
Physical space,,,,
Oxygen...
Tardedness...


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## Anagor (Jul 31, 2014)

mmmmmmmichael said:


> Ma'am, @Corinne, kindly accept your licks for not staying on topic here.


I fail to see how her post was off topic. Okay, the title speaks about money only. But you wrote: *[...] notice people who don't get their money, food, gas, drugs or clothes [...]*
Okay, tap water is very cheap. But so is a pack of ramen for a company like Wal-Mart. 
Anyway. Ethics do always matter, in my opinion. Isn't important if you are a homebum or a millionair. But ethics is a very personal concept. What is ethical for me is perhaps unethical for you and vice versa.
I was never in the position (yet) to have to steal or to beg for money. So I theorize here, I admit. I wouldn't have a problem to panhandle, fly a sign, etc. (But that's in no way unethical, I think). When it comes to stealing or scamming ... I wouldn't do scamming and I would steal only if I have to and the consequences for the person/company I steal from would be low.
Example: stealing a can of soup from a large supermarket when you are really hungry and no other option is available isn't unethical in any way I think. Stealing a can of soup from another guy on the road who also doesn't have much more definitely is.
I wouldn't steal money to get food, gas, drugs or clothes. I would search for alternatives to get what I need (asking, dumpster diving, etc.) and if there were no alternative I'd try to steal only what I really need (like a can of soup while starving or a jacket while freezing). And I'd always see that I steal from someone who can easily cope with it.
I very much agree to the words uttered by a catholic cardinal after world war two in Germany (Cologne):

*We live in times where the single individual, in his need, ought to be allowed to take what he needs to preserve his life and health, if he cannot obtain it through other means, work or bidding.
*
_Cardinal Frings is eternalised in the Kölsch language with the word "fringsen" (verb, literally translates as "to Frings") which became synonymous for "stealing food" and other low-value consumables out of need. The expression dates back on his New year's Eve sermon which he held on 31 December 1946 in the St. Engelbert church in Cologne-Riehl, in which he referred to the looting of coal trains and the bad supply situation in the grim winter._
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Frings)


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## Kim Chee (Jul 31, 2014)

mmmmmmmichael said:


> I apologize...
> 
> I should have mentioned water....
> Physical space,,,,
> ...



I left out some of the obvious things are often taken for granted. Stealing (a drink?) of water shouldn't be confused with things which may or may not be ethical. It is vital for human life and hopefully there is no question of ethics in obtaining H2O to live. 

...or maybe I'm being simply too controlling and should ignore apparent off topicness.


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## Deleted member 9462 (Aug 18, 2014)

i would never steal from an individual but out of curiousity, what is the shell game? 

my ethics won't allow me to fly a sign unless i am busking or providing something in return. i like to take art with me and sell it wherever i go too!

was thinking about gas canning for my trip out west but will probably only ask truckers because they usually have a company card.


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## Dameon (Aug 19, 2014)

The shell game is one of the oldest cons. Three shells, one of them hides a pea, and you bet the mark they can't guess the right one. Mostly done with cards these days. Of course, the mark always loses, but a shill in the audience makes it look like you can win.
Even if the mark realizes they've been duped, they'll walk away $200 poorer rather than acknowledge they were dumb enough to get conned.


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## Anagor (Aug 19, 2014)

Yeah, and I don't understand how you can be taken in by that ...

Especially since it's (as you mentioned) one of the oldest cons and there are constantly warnings about this in television (around holiday time).
But I think it's like that:





Left side guy says like: "You are millionst passant. You here enter your credit card number to getting an iPad,"
Right side guy says (edit:thinks): "Seems legit"


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## Cirno9 (Aug 22, 2014)

Personally I usually go to my homebase to make money and hit the road again, but sometimes I DO fuck up and blow it all and I have stolen from major retailers for things like food and shit I need, or think I need. I can con but I have not in a long while, I am not scared of jail time or any of that noise but just my inner voice tells me what a fuckin shit head I am for doing it. I am not opposed to selling the drugs I myself would take like MDMA, pot, or shrooms but anything other than that I villanize personally especially if the drug is known to cause severe addiction like heroin or cocaine. If I were desperate enough I might steal from a person but I would have to be close to dying for that to go down just for the simple fact I know what its like to go with out and if I am going with out why would I cause the same to another person unless they were a thief themselves? I guess its like "If I have nothing else at least I can still have my pride." but pride cant feed you so sometimes you might have to trade it in for some food.


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## zea mays (Sep 4, 2014)

yeah I was just thinking of anarchist ethics tonight. This whole "steal from wallmart" thing seems pretty thin to me, just like polyamory can go from being "liberating" to "total shit show". Its fucking impossible to starve in a western city/country so the person who steals is not acting out of pure necessity. Unless they have checked all the dumpsters and there are no jobs or anyone to beg off of and they have just walked out of the desert, there is some amount of greed or laziness or thoughtlessness. 

then again I live in Canada where the streets are paved with candy.

I dont knock stealing, dont think any less of people who do, and I always appreciate a good scam. Stealing, eating meat, driving cars, etc you can get very abstract and very annoyingly rational with these sets of ethics. I have just shoplifted so much life in my that it has messed with my inner moral compass. I think its because creating exceptions has blurred my sense of right and wrong and somehow I slippery sloped into doing other unethical things, and now I feel like there is no truth or sincerity anywhere. But being poor is not always an excuse. No one steals in Africa or Mexico but politicians.


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## zea mays (Sep 4, 2014)

As for the line "I steal from walmart because walmart steals from communities, emplyees, etc", do you realy want to use the same tactics as something you hate?


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## Dameon (Sep 5, 2014)

God forbid rationality should have anything to do with ethics...

And nobody in Mexico or Africa steals from each other? Are you serious? What world do you live in? Look up the accounts of banditry in both. Shit, if you built a Wally world in Mexico or most of Africa, it would be empty of merchandise within an hour. Heh, you go down to Mexico and tell them that stealing from a multi-billion dollar company is a slippery slope.


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