# Against automation against UBI



## Cheeks (Apr 27, 2019)

Against automation against UBI

The futures looking more and more bleak everyday.


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## Deleted member 21429 (Apr 27, 2019)

Yes it does. Great article, combines everything I've been telling my friends and coworkers but.. they don't really give a shit about anything but the here and now. People don't do shit till their hair is on fire is what I always say. Throw climate change and overpopulation into the mix, stir in food shortages and drug resistant infections, and top it off with a coronal mass ejection from the sun for an even bleaker future. 
~ peace and hope everyone reads your link and takes it seriously. Because it IS


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## roguetrader (Apr 28, 2019)

just wait for the Robo Hobo !


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## blank (Apr 28, 2019)

That's a pretty doom and gloom article. UBI seems to be just an idea representing the US considering shifting towards a more Scandinavian style welfare state now that we're seeing the problems with balls to the wall capitalism forming with people getting kind of poor and crazy and drug addled and politically radicalized. 

Freedom Dividend seems like it's probably also designed to encourage people to work in low wage jobs instead of using welfare programs, since any welfare spending received is (I think) subtracted from the monthly dividend. Better idea than trickle down economics, at least.


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## Deleted member 20 (Apr 28, 2019)

Automation seems to be an inevitable byproduct of technological evolution. I am all for socialism but bet that UBI will be administered by the same greedy elites that ensure the poor stay poor. We have all known families that recieved cash assistance, public housing, free healthcare and food stamps. Regardless of the program and benefit amount, they are designed to help people exist on the edges of despair. If first world comfort is desired on first world poverty benefits then one must be really resourceful. Strict budgeting, hustling must be adheered to. I think the secret to an existence of surviving is knowing how to balance it all.

Desire, exploitation and greed are at the core of capitalism but what if through simplicity we all simply ended our individual consumerism? I know that as I raise my family in voluntary poverty or while working that it requires the correct mindset. I know that regardless of how much resources I have, my quality of life never suffers. I always find the resources to survive up to our living standards of renting a cheap apt, buying almost everything second hand and keeping my creature comforts in check. Having our basic needs of shelter, food, toiletries, utilities as primary and all else as secondary allows for us to agree on whats needed versus whats wanted. Having cable/phone/internet is a luxury that we have grown accustomed to so we do not go without but its not essential to our survival. We have a crappy car +fuel, basic car insurance, dog license, cheap cell phone bill that eat up resources too. I try to repair our car with used/discounted parts with me doing much of the labor. I think many of us live this way, not filled with anxiety but ever vigilant over ever expense and purchase.

I know the american dream is a lie. I know that I do not deserve wealth as my birthright. I know that the newest gadgets, fancy clothes, expense meals and overpriced coffees will always have consumers to buy. I wont be one of them. I hope to stay right sized in my ecosystem of commerce. When I work, I increase my access to capital but lose some needed resources from benefits and subsidies. The greatest finite commodity lost is time away from what is yours when working. Will UBI unlock more freedom for us or will it further enslave?

Nothing yet shows me that adding a universal basic income will do anything but provide a stable level of universal poverty. I do not believe that living a minimalist life on poverty levels is actually a bad thing but theres always a catch. The ongoing bureaucratic red tape, reviews and subsequent paperwork thats required takes up a lot of time. The government always makes us jump through hoops for benefits then requires constant massaging to retain benefits. If reported income is acquired then theres a monkey wrench in the system.

Think of all of the unnecessary working drones that administer all of the benefits that we recieve. I say automate these wage slave, bureaucratic bean counter drones first. We have too many people wanting more than they need because they feel entitled. I say that carbon taxes should be levied based on ones lifestyle to offset the income levels of the worst polluters. Every plastic walmart doohickey and upgraded iphone to every ingredient in ones diet, to energy used should have a cost benefit analysis where we pay to play. This way us minimalist types who buy little, pay little in carbon taxes and survive simply on our UBI, free health care, food stamps and housing assistance.

The haves who live in luxury and excess who benefit on the greed and exploitation over the people and environment, pay carbon taxes above the estimated anual resource allocation of the majority. Capitalism kills. It is the greatest evil that man has ever known ad it has no limits to its wrath, even destroying our only habitat. As the masses now seek "more" resources with creature comforts and the leisure time to spend it; the human drones will now be obsolete. Many workers are useless and unproductive yet recieve income, get vacations and pretend they are needed.

On march the computerized machines as cars and tractors replaced animals and slaves. Hopefully the creative class and socially conscious entrepreneurs can benefit the most from a UBI. Many people waste their talents, passions and lives while working nowhere jobs. Perhaps this will help some live better and more meaningful lives?


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## Deleted member 21429 (Apr 28, 2019)

roguetrader said:


> just wait for the Robo Hobo !


Already been done. A robot hitchhiked across canada and into the us before being ripped apart in philly. Hitchbot was its name. ~ peace


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## Cheeks (Apr 28, 2019)

The majority of jobs are absolutely unnecessary and only exist to provide a menial living to keep people on the edge of poverty so they don't revolt. But capitalism requires the exploitation of labor, land, resources, and capital itself in order to exist. Automation is the perfected exploitation of labor thus at such a stage in its life cycle requires a UBI to keep us in line. The next stage of capitalism is inevitably state capitalism.


I also live within my means and try to alleviate the dictates of capitalism within my existence, but for a lot of us the price of doing so can be alienating. I think that most of us would benifit from collective co-housing environments. Environments where the burdens can be spread amongst a core group of a dozen to several dozen. This can make rent and food much cheaper compared to the standards of our given cities. But I believe we need to make these living situations not only multi generational but comfortable for the elderly as well as the young. The concept of the nuclear family is an invention of capitalism and needs to die. We need to start living not only together but also for each other. It's the only way for us to realize our potential beyond leases, careers, and arbitrary borders drawn on maps.


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## Cheeks (Apr 29, 2019)

Oh yeah... I remember hitchbot! And I miss Philly even more after it's dismantling is brought up.


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## benton (May 1, 2019)

It is my contention that the general public is unconscious (unaware) the majority of the time.

In general, it seems to me that humans misunderstand our creative force. Humans collectively are the ones who are creating all of this. Smashing it won't work (as it will continue to be created). Humans must collectively discontinue the creation of these phenomena, or they will continue unabated, which is exactly what I expect to happen (the latter not the former)
completely different.

I am optimistic with respect to the transcendent potential of individual humans and pessimistic with regards to humanity figuring it out and changing the world.

I'd like to be wrong.


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## Cheeks (May 1, 2019)

Hey man... I'm not bashing on you here but youre exhibiting incomplete thoughts. All I'm getting out of this is, "people made this so people will make this."


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## Deleted member 21429 (May 2, 2019)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/opinion/internet-privacy-project.html

need a subscription after 3 articles but if you wipe your cache, browser, and history you can get back in. ~ peace


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## Irate Pirate (May 13, 2019)

Cheeks said:


> Against automation against UBI
> 
> The futures looking more and more bleak everyday.



*Fuck Robots!* 
Amirite, Cheeks from Gainesville?


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## Cheeks (May 13, 2019)

Irate Pirate said:


> *Fuck Robots!*
> Amirite, Cheeks from Gainesville?



Yes and yes!!!


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