# daily interactions



## Lichenthropy (Oct 25, 2019)

i had a really sobering interaction the other day that i cant stop thinking about. i was killing time in a border town in NM (if ya dont know, border towns are spots just on another side of a Native indian reservation) while two of my homies were getting traditional midwife trainings. theres a transit system that allows us to get from the capital of our reservation to the nearest town, this town is known for 2 things among natives and the people who exploit us; being the 'most patriotic town in america' and for mad amount of drunk indians. im at the transit waiting for the next bus and this older clearly drunk man started chatting with me about his day, he had 2 bags on him filled with halloween candy and the other stuffed with a playstation 4. so im listening to this guys life story about how his son is embarrassed about his fathers alcoholism and poverty so the father busted his ass to get his son something rad to play with. soon a couple who were also drunk started talking to the man im talking with about how he should check out a shelter since the sun was going down because it wouldnt be a problem for him to get robbed in his condition. they argue about maybe stealing from the guy and almost get into a fist fight when neither decided to drop it since it would end up going to jail for everyone invlolved. earlier that day i was skating downtown when i ran into 2 drunk white people who got pulled off a train and were panhandling, i started talking with them because why not, right? so they asked about authentic mexican food and how much it would cost, i said probably $20 a plate and they said that isnt too bad and they could afford it. they continued asking for change and i skated off. 
so the reason im typing this is because i cant stop thinking about struggling. the real struggle of the two forms of poverty i witnessed. one being the drunk father and his coping with personal, economic, and social struggle that he faces everyday, and the other being the homeless train riding drunk white folx who could afford a killer meal but were trying to get money off of natives who make $20 last for a weeks worth of food. struggle is struggle of course and dying is color blind. im not sure if im trying to say something, but i had to type this out and hopefully get a message out there about where we are at near the end of 2019. take care and think!


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## roughdraft (Oct 25, 2019)

yeah man, appreciating yr words as always

dignity and all that is relative, especially relative to one's own awareness along with what they genuinely care about….interesting topic...


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## Deleted member 26656 (Oct 25, 2019)

fetidnotfaded said:


> i had a really sobering interaction the other day that i cant stop thinking about. i was killing time in a border town in NM (if ya dont know, border towns are spots just on another side of a Native indian reservation) while two of my homies were getting traditional midwife trainings. theres a transit system that allows us to get from the capital of our reservation to the nearest town, this town is known for 2 things among natives and the people who exploit us; being the 'most patriotic town in america' and for mad amount of drunk indians. im at the transit waiting for the next bus and this older clearly drunk man started chatting with me about his day, he had 2 bags on him filled with halloween candy and the other stuffed with a playstation 4. so im listening to this guys life story about how his son is embarrassed about his fathers alcoholism and poverty so the father busted his ass to get his son something rad to play with. soon a couple who were also drunk started talking to the man im talking with about how he should check out a shelter since the sun was going down because it wouldnt be a problem for him to get robbed in his condition. they argue about maybe stealing from the guy and almost get into a fist fight when neither decided to drop it since it would end up going to jail for everyone invlolved. earlier that day i was skating downtown when i ran into 2 drunk white people who got pulled off a train and were panhandling, i started talking with them because why not, right? so they asked about authentic mexican food and how much it would cost, i said probably $20 a plate and they said that isnt too bad and they could afford it. they continued asking for change and i skated off.
> so the reason im typing this is because i cant stop thinking about struggling. the real struggle of the two forms of poverty i witnessed. one being the drunk father and his coping with personal, economic, and social struggle that he faces everyday, and the other being the homeless train riding drunk white folx who could afford a killer meal but were trying to get money off of natives who make $20 last for a weeks worth of food. struggle is struggle of course and dying is color blind. im not sure if im trying to say something, but i had to type this out and hopefully get a message out there about where we are at near the end of 2019. take care and think!


while I greatly greatly agree with everything you're saying I just want to let you know that in my opinion those drunken white train rider kids are pretty much going to beg off of anybody so I really would not take that personally and they'll probably be out of your town within two or three days.


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## Deleted member 24782 (Oct 25, 2019)

Damn, this actually says a a lot, maybe about your integrity? Struggle is struggle. You were obviously not really judging either party, but more so taking notes about life choices. Gettin' existential bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Coywolf (Oct 26, 2019)

Dude, I grew up in Flag, as I've mentioned before. And have spent the majority of my life in the border towns of AZ NM UT.

Most of the people that pass through Gallup/Belen/Clovis on trains are not thinking about the struggle of the people in the area....most travelers out there are not aware of the social/economic status of the southwest's Native communities.

Not saying that I'm an expert, either. I just happened to grow up here, and have seen how FUCKED Flagstaff is when it comes to being a bordertown and how the rich white douchebags treat the people who come from the rez and rely on Flagstaff as an amenities center for like WalMart, HomeDepot, and shit like that.

Have you been in Flagstaff for an event called Tequila Sunrise? Where they arrest drunk Native people who are just tryingto survive on the streets, at higher rates than the THOUSANDS of drunk college kids (one of whom was jumping up and down in a cop car, white, frat guy, got a warning) who participate in the event?!

I dunno. I think that the uninformed will continue to make uninformed decisions until we get the fuck up and start educating them.

...and then that isint even a guarantee they will give a shit =/


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## MFB (Oct 26, 2019)

To me, the point or theme of this little vignette is obvious; entitlement.

OP, as Bro D stated, good on you for not judging and being positive. 😉


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## Lichenthropy (Oct 26, 2019)

roughdraft said:


> yeah man, appreciating yr words as always
> 
> dignity and all that is relative, especially relative to one's own awareness along with what they genuinely care about….interesting topic...



i feel like dignity is all my people on the streets have left for sure, the most simple n honest way to let someone in that state know you recognize their humanity is to say hey n start a little conversation. thx for the words, g.


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## Lichenthropy (Oct 26, 2019)

Travelisinvigorating said:


> while I greatly greatly agree with everything you're saying I just want to let you know that in my opinion those drunken white train rider kids are pretty much going to beg off of anybody so I really would not take that personally and they'll probably be out of your town within two or three days.


 
fo sho. they had been here before so they probably know what theyre up to. it isnt a personal thing as much as it is a business as usual type of thing, and panhandling is a business. i just had to share the story, shit gets a little too real sometimes.


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## Lichenthropy (Oct 26, 2019)

Coywolf said:


> Dude, I grew up in Flag, as I've mentioned before. And have spent the majority of my life in the border towns of AZ NM UT.
> 
> Most of the people that pass through Gallup/Belen/Clovis on trains are not thinking about the struggle of the people in the area....most travelers out there are not aware of the social/economic status of the southwest's Native communities.
> 
> ...



nah ive never seen one of those, a homie was talking about that 2 weeks ago when we were in flag tho, sounds about w h i t e. seriously tho, its disheartening bordertown politics. i get it tho, folx gotta cope somehow n most people dont seem to think n some people dont think at all. thx for the words!


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## MFB (Oct 26, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> I have empathy & compassion for all who struggle
> but at the end of the day struggling is a choice-a mindset
> Poverty consciousness is a real thing
> rich people are not assholes, they can be sure so can poor..but money doesn’t make u a bad person..it’s neutral.
> ...




I think youre on the right track.
Poverty, when measured by the goals that nature has set for us does not equate to suffering. I think it starts w gratitude for what you do have, rather than worrying about what you dont have.

On average, I make about 15k a year, and Im very content w my life. In the end, its about knowing whats right for ypu.

That being said, I dont doubt the struggle is real for some, and consider myself lucky to have the things I have. And not things. But a good head, healthy body, funny friends, dope dog.


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## Maxnomad (Oct 26, 2019)

Jesus christ. No. Money = calories, a roof, medicine, education, transportation, access to the rest of the world, and unfortunately respect in the eyes of many to most folks, regardless of if any of that means anything to you. That one guy got his arm stuck in a rock and cut it off with a leatherman, would you stand there and yell encouragement and james franco quotes at someone in a similar situation?

Try and eat bootstraps


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## Coywolf (Oct 27, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> I have empathy & compassion for all who struggle
> but at the end of the day struggling is a choice-a mindset
> Poverty consciousness is a real thing
> rich people are not assholes, they can be sure so can poor..but money doesn’t make u a bad person..it’s neutral.
> ...



Jesus fucking christ. Ok....I have to take this from an angle where I dont scream BULLSHIT.

ok. Look ya, for a long time the American dream of 'work hard, save money, get a white picket fence' was feasible...

J/K THERE WAS NO SUCH A TIME.

Naw man, you have to look at the wealth inequality history in this country. At NO POINT was there ever a time when anyone but well off, white folk could live that dream.

Are there exceptions? Of course. But on the whole, the history, free market capitalism age or not, have precipitated a culture oh the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.

And dude, if you wanna get into Native American cultures, and how they have 'had a choice' in their social status in America....just keep commenting. I'm sure you will get a history lesson.

NOW. that being said. Your comments of 'some people make a choice'. That is absolutely true. And I know ima get aome shit for this.

People do make a choice. When it comes down to it, everyone does. I live houseless by choice, now. I've also lived houseless not by choice. And to be able to use that grey line between the two is a very sketchy alley that I would advise against any person to go down.

You dont know me. You dont know anyone, especially that you haven't met. DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DO NOT KNOW.

that is the simple rule. 

Some people are fucking terrible. Some people are in a terrible situation. Some people are just in a situation they have been put in against their will 


Look, I'm not going to lie. I know alot of helpless street kids and homebums. They are going to shoot heroin and drink vodka till they die in an alley, no matter what anyone says to them.

I have also met many a person who is just fucked, and with the right kinda support they will be able to get out of a hole.

I've ALSO met people like me, who just wanna do their own thing and be left alone.

So please. PLEASE. Hold judgement.


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## roughdraft (Oct 27, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> You must have forgot your history that you agreed to come to this earth & born into the specific circumstances u r in
> We all choose our lives based on past lives (and other factors )
> So if u wanna talk about history
> Mustn’t forget to mention what the ancients knew and practiced preserving



howdy

can you expand on this? and "you have to look within yourself" is not an acceptable answer. I want to know more of *your* understanding of this. 

the thing is people can break down 'beyond the shadow of a doubt' (or close enough to it) the current economic-social-political systems and put the pieces together with the less-controversial parts of less-distant recorded history.

I would *like* to understand more broadly than that so can you enlighten all of us with a more practical breakdown?


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## Coywolf (Oct 27, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> Money=energy
> Ask yourself,
> Do I live in abundance? Am I living my best life to my highest potential?
> Playing a victim & blaming others or the situation one is in = a result of lack & disharmony with the universe



^^^That, right there? Ya is one of the most ignorant, judgemental things I have ever heard. 

It kinda makes me think you dont travel, because spend one minute in any downtown area in a large city, and the wealth disparity will shock you.

This country has been sculpted into a society where a certain class holds onto, and begets more wealth, while systematically making sure the rest are held down into their convienent proletariat status.

Like I said, some people are bums because they whine and cry about how unfair life is. And some are just bound to be fucked by karma, or the black hole of free market capitalism. 

So blanket statements like the one you made in the quote above dont really work they way you expect them to


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## EphemeralStick (Oct 27, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> You must have forgot your history that you agreed to come to this earth & born into the specific circumstances u r in
> We all choose our lives based on past lives (and other factors )
> So if u wanna talk about history
> Mustn’t forget to mention what the ancients knew and practiced preserving



Excuse me? Like seriously, EXCUSE ME?

No one agrees to be born, they just are. To say that people choose the lives they are born into is the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard.

So your saying I chose to be born a queer individual with emotionally negligent Mexican Roman Catholic parents? You honestly think that anyone given the choice by whatever cosmic-jargan you have to explain this would actively choose to be born into a life of poverty, discrimination, and trauma?

What the hell is wrong with you?


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## EphemeralStick (Oct 27, 2019)

Well, there it is folks. The new record for the most entitled and delusional mindset I've ever seen on here. 

I can't even figure out where to begin to point out the fallacies in that.


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## roughdraft (Oct 27, 2019)

EphemeralStick said:


> Well, there it is folks. The new record for the most entitled and delusional mindset I've ever seen on here.
> 
> I can't even figure out where to begin to point out the fallacies in that.



i can definitely see how what he's on about is delusional, but how so entitled..? crazy as it is - he seems to just be looking for answers


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## EphemeralStick (Oct 27, 2019)

@roughdraft We're all looking for answers. But to believe that people who are struggling made some predestined choice to live in such a way is to completely discount the very real socio/economic problems that are rampant in our world. 

Someone who believes that sort of thing to me seems like someone who never had to empathize with or analyze any person's experience outside of their own. Hence, entitled.


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## roughdraft (Oct 27, 2019)

EphemeralStick said:


> @roughdraft We're all looking for answers. But to believe that people who are struggling made some predestined choice to live in such a way is to completely discount the very real socio/economic problems that are rampant in our world.
> 
> Someone who believes that sort of thing to me seems like someone who never had to empathize with or analyze any person's experience outside of their own. Hence, entitled.



appreciating your response


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## roughdraft (Oct 27, 2019)

ScarletMountain said:


> I’m far from enlightened but I have came to these realizations thru research ..internal research mostly so looking within was how I came to such understandings
> Which are solely that..experiences beyond words if I could try to describe but would be irrelevant & unrelatable
> But I will elaborate briefly on the practical
> 
> ...



ya I don't believe in enlightenment as something you can achieve, more like a way of describing…a means of conveying 'lightbulb' quality information…..but yeah man, interesting stuff. appreciating your response


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## Coywolf (Oct 27, 2019)

*faceplam*

Whatever man, to each their own, good luck with all of that.


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## dumpster harpy (Oct 27, 2019)

@ScarletMountain Way to derail _this _thread (of all the fucking threads) with your entitled white culture-vulture hippy bullshit


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## dumpster harpy (Oct 27, 2019)




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## Maxnomad (Oct 27, 2019)

Hoo boy

So by now everyone knows im the one whos just always gonna argue, so im gonna go forward w this. @ScarletMountain theres the tiniest bit of truth in what you say. Really, really, really fucking tiny. I got into a conversation with a couple folks the other day, two buddhists and one guy who seemed like a suffi or something else kinda far out, he had a guru rather than a congregation or a sangha if that tells you anything. They, we, were arguing about what constitutes religion. The one (madhyamaka) buddhist was saying that meditation followed by a talk mostly on the subject of ethics in a community setting constitutes a religion. The other, whose name i couldnt even begin to pronounce, argued the opposite, that since buddhists reject the idea of a deity and indeed the *inherent* (in favor of dependantly originating) existance of any thing in its particularity, they are not religious, but certainly qualify as mystical. My contribution, which seemed to piss everybody off, across borh nationality and creed, was this: the word religion is very old, and seemingly has secular origins. It seems to have originally been used by romans at the conscription of soldiers and officers. Ligo has the same origin as ligament, that which connects. Sacrality, coming from sacrare, has the opposite meaning, to seperate. Becoming sacred is the process of leaving the fold, cleansing, strengthening, wandering in the desert, etc (which we should all appreciate). The forgetting of what you know, and the disavowal of all that can be known, is the essence of this stage of the process. "I blind myself that i may see, i mute myself that i may speak". Religo, the reconnection, is something none of us can accomplish alone. It's worth noting that many of the worlds religions, and i only have a little knowledge of some of the best known ones, follow a pretty strict schedule. Youre inducted into monestary life at a young age, taught discipline, ethics and philosophy. At some point youre expected to hit the road, mend your spirit, be a mendicant. You beg for alms, and you give aid and teaching to anyone who wants it. And then, you either return to society or religious life, in either case hopefully a better (and more useful) person. "First there was a mountain, then there was no mountain, then there was a mountain" doesnt only refer to way our perception is shaped by our meditative practices. None of the stages can be skipped. gods work is not like the bullshit work that weve all been mostly smart enough to duck

I suggest you find a community with a solid practice, good ethics, and a good teacher. Cause you sound batshit dude, thats no way to be in the world


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## MFB (Oct 27, 2019)

Jeezrr,...these threads always start so amiably. 🤷

In an effort to right the ship... 
On struggle. 
A lot of it is mindset. And I agree w Max that there is the tiniest bit of truth in Scarlet's posts. As in; 
In life we can think things happen to us, or things happen FOR us. 
Everything can be a lesson, in patience, in gratitude, in strength. Etc. 
Someone you love dies, you can percieve it as losing someone, or a reminder to love and appreciate those you do have.

Play nice, kids.


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