# Why I hate Conservatism and good reasons to destroy it.



## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

1. Transcendence and Transhumanism: Francis Fukuyama and several of his buddies were asked to name "The most dangerous ideas in the world."...Frankie Boy named Transhumanism as his most fearful idea. Transhumanism is the idea that we can enhance ourselves, evolve, and develop superior abilities. This includes cybernetics, 'designer babies', neural interface and nanotech, and maybe a certain amount of eugenics. Why does Fukuyama consider transhumanism to be evil? Because he says eventually a caste system of technologically enhanced haves would emerge, with a corresponding caste of un-enhanced have-nots.

2. I for one love the idea of the existence of ideas so shocking that they leave uber-conservatives like Fukuyama quaking in their boots. Be afraid, ya fucks. Be VERY afraid.

3. There is a hierarchy of human needs, and most of us meet those basic needs fairly easily each day: Food, shelter, water, air, security, and love.

4. Once these basics are met, what do we do? I propose we then embark on projects which benefit the species. We start with small projects that benefit the people around us, and then move on to more ambitious projects.

5. Unfortunately, most people remain stuck dealing with acquiring the basics. This becomes the focal point of their lives and they never experience growth, transcendence, or evolution on a personal level of any magnitude. If you monitor what people Google search, it's very mundane terms like "Kardashian" in the US, ''croissant'' in France, and ''camel'' in Dubai. If you monitor how governments and private firms allocate money, it's equally mundane: war. infrastructure...Politicians and financiers focus firstly on problems...then, on maintaining their status quos. If you monitor press conferences and mass media, all the power elites ever talk about is problems and then day-to-day maintenance of the Machine...

6. I propose we break out as thinkers. Meet our basic needs, then immediately and forcefully turn to accelerating the evolution of the species, in ways that really benefit us. I propose we embark on ambitious projects that have awe-inspiring goals. We only have a limited time on this planet. We should use it to create awesome innovations.

7. We should devote all our time, energy, resourcefulness, creativity, and money towards grand projects. Scientists say certain tech is impossible, such as time travel and faster-than-light travel: but if da Vinci, Tesla, or really anyone else had refused to work on stuff based on ''impossibility'', there would be no tech advancement. People would just give up on everything and we'd still be Neanderthals. Fortunately for us, ''impossible'' is not always accepted as an excuse for laziness.


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## buffalobill (Aug 1, 2015)

thats cool i am concerned of our limit on the planet however it seems like most inovations seem to be created when we need to fit our basic needs as a community. take war or disaster people see what their surroundings are they look at the problem and use the materials and motivation of the group by whtaever meants to succeed but great thread super deep if yah want to spend the time on it hahah


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## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

Thank you. The reason I wrote this was deep frustration and dissatisfaction with our species' history. I mean, we've had 25000 years to rise above our Neanderthal roots, and we haven't accomplished as much as we're capable of. So much time and resources are spent on worthless bullshit when we could be a highly advanced species right now with absolutely amazing achievements. We're stuck in the Dark Ages and hardly anyone cares about quantum leaps for humanity.

And, to paraphrase Yeats, the worst are doing all the most cutting edge R & D, while the best are doing nothing of any value: Monsanto using recombinant DNA for super soybeans; Mac working on fancy phones; DARPA...

http://www.darpa.mil/program/restoring-active-memory

http://www.darpa.mil/program/re-net-reliable-peripheral-interfaces


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## Brother X (Aug 1, 2015)

In the last serveral years I have subjected my thinking on things like "progress" and "civilization" to a thorough and exhaustive rexamination and my current concluions skew more towards the ideas expressed in works like "_The SIlence of the Animals_" (http://www.vice.com/read/john-gray-interview-atheism) and other similar schools of thought.

I sometimes pause and reflect on my change in thinking and feelings about human progress. I often do so while sitting under a tree, eating some hunted/gathered food, implant and cyber-enhancement free (both em AND the food). However, being a devout model agnostic (irony alert!), my ideas are always subject to change and alteration. 

Speaking of conservatism...I thought this was a Ralph Steadman illustration on first glance, but no.







Reality. What a concept.


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## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

Ahhhh. My wish is for people to discard anything plebeian and dream big: and take society in a direction that usually only science fiction writers do. To be grandiose. But in order for that to happen we'd have to create a play to work ratio of something like 500:1. So, all go on strike; quit our jobs; quit shopping; and focus on human potential, with survival concerns a minor sidenote. This is all just daydreaming, of course. I'm essentially asking people to discard capitalist values and replace them with technocratic ones. However, if people did value progress over anything else, we'd all be demigods by now.

A great example of what people can do when they try is the Manhattan Project: in 1941 there was no nuclear technology. By 1945 a team of the most creative physicists in the world had a viable nuke.

Now, if people could get together and work on something designed not to murder, but to eliminate human limitations in a very accelerated timespan...that would be exciting.


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## Odin (Aug 1, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> I'm essentially asking people to discard capitalist values and replace them with technocratic ones.



I am reserved nowadays in the possibility that great technological advancements will be shared freely with common folks in order to collectively lift up humanity.


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## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

Yes!  For instance, energy synthesis projects that negate the need for food and sleep. Obviously not for everybody: some people enjoy good food and natural body rhythms...But imagine if you wanted to finish a video game in a 40 hour marathon session...or earn a month's pay in 5 days...(without pharmaceuticals)...read War and Peace in 24 hours...this kind of tech would accelerate our learning and productivity rate beyond what anyone has ever known. People would be burning through entire libraries in a few months...earning advanced degrees in weeks rather than years...And once a crop of people like this has developed, the world will be ready for accelerated change.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 1, 2015)

...accelerated change ??

Not me - that is precisely why I'm getting everything set up for me to simply disappear from this so called civilization, because I have had enough of being constantly on the go, constantly being committed to doing something be it a job, meeting someone, caring, volunteering.... all these things require commitment and at this point in my life, I'm ready to think about retirement.
And what will that be ??

Hoping to God I never cross paths with another human being again once I head north - for humans have never ceased to amaze me with how they always let me down.
I've got 10 to 15 years to get ready, then once it's just me - I'm outta here.
Even if I only last a little while, at least I went on my terms and nobody else's and that in the end I was not made a slave to technology.

Sorry, but to me the Native Americans defined the apex of our species here in North America.
Although some may say that's not true because obviously the Indians are not what they once were, that does not make the Indians way of living un-advanced, as the Indians survived for a long long time - as opposed to the white man here. who've only been around for - what... a few hundred years, in which he has successfully destroyed the country for the sake of his own greed ??
Ain't nothing advanced about that.

Interesting post though, very interesting - I don't mean to bash it, I'm just trying to offer a different point of view. 

Beside's, isn't it the Conservatives who want complete control over their people ??
What better way than to hard wire them !!

Have any of you read The Terminal Man ??
I was given a copy, and that really changed my life once I started to think about it some.


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## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

Yes, read Terminal Man some years ago. Read "The Dark Fields" by Allan Glynn!!!  Yes The Natives...However, consider what the Mayans were doin with astronomy...and the ones who created the Nazca Lines...Those were some serious Mofos; and I still don't know what truly they were up to.


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## Kim Chee (Aug 1, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> 6. I propose we break out as thinkers. Meet our basic needs, then immediately and forcefully turn to accelerating the evolution of the species, in ways that really benefit us. I propose we embark on ambitious projects that have awe-inspiring goals. We only have a limited time on this planet. We should use it to create awesome innovations.



I propose we meet our basic needs and then help those nearest us meet their needs (even if we have to share) and then duplicate this ad infinitum. Since the government has not been able to lead by example, the people must take charge and show them how humans help each other survive and coexist.

Damn...I guess I have earned the label of socialist.

Funny how the government has gone through great lengths in the past of bastardizing socialism.


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## Kim Chee (Aug 1, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Yes!  For instance, energy synthesis projects that negate the need for food and sleep. Obviously not for everybody: some people enjoy good food and natural body rhythms...But imagine if you wanted to finish a video game in a 40 hour marathon session...or earn a month's pay in 5 days...(without pharmaceuticals)...read War and Peace in 24 hours...this kind of tech would accelerate our learning and productivity rate beyond what anyone has ever known. People would be burning through entire libraries in a few months...earning advanced degrees in weeks rather than years...And once a crop of people like this has developed, the world will be ready for accelerated change.



This is either grandiosity or an optimistic spirit speaking.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 2, 2015)

Socialist or Anarchist.....
I actually wanted to register as a Socialist but it turns out that here the party is now dead, so once again I have missed the boat.

I'll definately look into that book The Dark Fields and completely agree with everything else stated. 

Kind of interesting where if you want to look into the future, the best place to start is by going way way into the past.

Still remember the first time I read Chariots of the Gods and thinking how advanced our ancesters were.

I think that's about due for a re-read - perhaps while I'm on jury duty this Tuesday.............


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## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 2, 2015)

Hey, I'm not sure if this is a good place to bring this up, but this did start off as a very interesting technology thread.

Ok, like everything else - I'm just now hearing about a Canadian made robot who successfully toured - actually - hitched - across Canada and Europe, only to be destroyed in the United States: http://www.dw.com/en/hitchhiking-robot-hitchbot-destroyed-in-philadelphia/a-18622333
I mean, should this even surprise anyone ??
It seems that the one thing Americans are known for is destroying and exploiting everything they can.
For real, I would have loved to take this robot places and shown it how life is for me, perhaps even let it sit up front for a good canoe trip.
I really need to come up with a good reason why I should not burn my U.S. flag.
I try so hard to love this country - but as time goes on I really can't.....


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

The country is only lovable if you consider it to be the land, animals, forests, and the good people who exist here. But as for cultural institutions like flags, militarism, authoritarianism, and nationalism? Burn it all down!


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## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 2, 2015)

that is absolute truth........................


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## Odin (Aug 2, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Ahhhh. My wish is for people to discard anything plebeian and dream big: and take society in a direction that usually only science fiction writers do. To be grandiose.




I Dream this dream as well. ::artist::
You say it well.

Sometimes I think it's utterly amazing that the human race has achieved anything at all considering all the divisions and separation between different people and cultures.

Modern scientific thought and exploration and the social and technological advances that have been made are a miracle of humanity in light of the fact, that humans are and can viciously exhibit they're more primal instinct... natures.

Things such as... greed... lust for power...violence... apathy and cruelty take root fast and strong in this world. Often at too young an age.

A boy growing up in the favela's of Sante Teresa Rio might for lack of basic human needs and security be the next great physicist or biologist or engineer.

This is the big picture.

Can we as a global community change the destructive behaviors that hold back a better world... and not only hold back but threaten to destroy it?

The earth has been here for billions of years. How long do we have if we continue to behave the way we do? ::bored::


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

Just my 2 cents ... conservatism is not the only problem. The problem exists among most political ideologies. It's power and control. One ideology's law or regulation is another's polar opposite, since people value different things. I wish people would just value freedom and liberty while respecting other's freedom and liberty as long as we are not harming each other. Laws could be distilled to a few basic principles. This would be the equalizer between the powerful and not so powerful with neither forcing the other to do anything.


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

Conservatism is not the only ideology that is offensive: yes. Any sort of authoritarian ideology is offensive. But of course when I say I hate Conservatism, I mean cultural conservatism especially...even more so than political. Conservative attitudes; conservative aesthetics, etc. For instance, the Brutalist style of architecture gets a thumbs down in my book, while French Renaissance architecture gets a thumbs up. Maseratis and Lotuses, yes. Buicks and Oldsmobiles, no. Toulouse-Lautrec yes; Andy Warhol, NO. 

When I say conservative, I mean an uptight, stodgy mindset that naturally resists innovation and originality: that prefers unimaginative to spectacular.


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Conservatism is not the only ideology that is offensive: yes. Any sort of authoritarian ideology is offensive. But of course when I say I hate Conservatism, I mean cultural conservatism especially...even more so than political. Conservative attitudes; conservative aesthetics, etc. For instance, the Brutalist style of architecture gets a thumbs down in my book, while French Renaissance architecture gets a thumbs up. Maseratis and Lotuses, yes. Buicks and Oldsmobiles, no. Toulouse-Lautrec yes; Andy Warhol, NO.



Can one like a Maserati and a Buick at the same time? Can one like a particular architecture while living in nature? These to me are personal preferences. 

I agree with you on social conservatism; which leads to political conservatism for many. one the


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

Opps, phone is acting up. I was about to write, that I am very a 'live and let live' type of guy. For instance, I am gay. I don't care about gay marriage. However, I hate laws that have been constructed to discrimate against anyone. Why do single people have to pay higher taxes than married people? That is regardless of sexual orientation. I don't wish ill of married people, but to me government has no business to be involved in marriage. 

It is simply power and control over others based on popular belief, which changes over time. What comes around.goes around. The pendulum of beliefs goes back and forth. The essence of individual freedom and liberty never changes.


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

Conservatism in essence is fear of change. Fear. You can base everything conservatives do on that one factor. They will not BASE jump. They will not try ethnic foods. They will not take lsd or ecstasy. They will not do anything thats even vaguely out of their comfort zone. And, they disapprove when adventurous people do adventurous things.

Also, Conservatives don't like anything that is different. They will not live in San Fran. Theres too many gays there! They want to live in Texas.

They do not want to eat at the newest Vietnamese restaurant, drink Belgian ales, or shop at City Lights Bookstore. They want to read Readers Digest or watch crappy reruns or Jon Wayne movies while loafing on a couch, somewhere in Texas, drinking sweet tea or Coors Light; eating microwave mashed potatos and boiled cabbage.

I recommend North Beach San Fran. I recommend anything French: conservatives hate the French.
I recommend Allan Ginsberg's "America". He explains perfectly in that poem everything that is right about non-conservatism; and everything that is wrong with conservatism.


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Conservatism in essence is fear of change. Fear. You can base everything conservatives do on that one factor. They will not BASE jump. They will not try ethnic foods. They will not take lsd or ecstasy. They will not do anything thats even vaguely out of their comfort zone. And, they disapprove when adventurous people do adventurous things.


Voodoo I like you. Life is a journey. I was a socialist. I was a communist. I was a liberal. I was a conservative. Today, I am a libertarian bordering on an anarchist. I believe in minimal government which stops me from being a.complete anarchist. All politicl ideolgies use fear. 

My only fear is others imposing their will upon me as I make my way through lifes journeys. I won't harm others physically and I try my best not to harm others emotionally. That is my credo.


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

Surfers have a thing they call the Green Room. Its when you achieve enlightenment in the waves. I care little for politics, but my political philosophy has much in common with surfing. Surfers hate it when people encroach on their turf. Surfers like solitude, but not too much. Surfers want peace and tranquility, but they also like to challenge themselves. I like people but ''good fences make good neighbors''...I appreciate services and infrastructure and believe that the Bourgeois should be cultivated like Honey Aphids, to benefit the hive.


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Surfers have a thing they call the Green Room. Its when you achieve enlightenment in the waves. I care little for politics, but my political philosophy has much in common with surfing. Surfers hate it when people encroach on their turf. Surfers like solitude, but not too much. Surfers want peace and tranquility, but they also like to challenge themselves. I like people but ''good fences make good neighbors''...I appreciate services and infrastructure and believe that the Bourgeois should be cultivated like Honey Aphids, to benefit the hive.


Don't you find that a little hypicritical? Shouldn't everyone benefit the hive? I think there should be many hives, each with their own set of rules for their own hive. My hive would be the one with the fewest rules. I have no desire to impose my values on others, expecting the same from others. Btw, I find this a very interesting conversation.


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

Well, Look at what ants do. They work very hard, keep the hive, or colony running smoothly. But at the same time they groom, feed, care for, and cultivate the aphids, so its a win/win for everybody. The aphids need to be shielded from predators; the ants need a constant source of honey!

The Soviets were stupid because rather than care for their aphids and maximize their efficiency, they killed all their aphids and thus forced the ants themselves to do all the work.

Under US conditions, the aphids have usurped control from the ants and thus reversed the natural order of things.


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## OldJD (Aug 2, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> Well, Look at what ants do. They work very hard, keep the hive, or colony running smoothly. But at the same time they groom, feed, care for, and cultivate the aphids, so its a win/win for everybody. The aphids need to be shielded from predators; the ants need a constant source of honey!
> 
> The Soviets were stupid because rather than care for their aphids and maximize their efficiency, they killed all their aphids and thus forced the ants themselves to do all the work.


Ok, so what.do you think about the Walmart's hive or General Electric's hive? There are many hives. The hives are based on personal/collective beliefs. I don't want a queen ant telling me what to do. I want to makr the choice myself. I also know my choices will.change over time. I want the freedom to change my mind based on my experiences and understanding of what works and doesn't work. At the same time I am willing to let others explore their beliefs as long as their beliefs do not prohbit mine.


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## Mankini (Aug 2, 2015)

Yeah I agree with you totally. But I also believe that the Bourgeois' revenue producing power can be harnessed, so that their efforts benefit the masses...The Bourgeois cry about getting taxed. But if they are made to understand that they have no other options than to subsidize society, then we can build social welfare systems, etc. Yes, it's socialism. But I cant think of anything better.

It aint gonna happen here. If you want a great welfare system you'd have to live in Belgium or Norway. If you like hands-off libertarianism, I guess there are such places too.

Is it hypocritical to create one set of standards for the Proletariat and another, completely different one for the Bourgeois? The Cubans screwed up and allowed most of their Bourgeois to flee in the 50s. Ya gotta keep em around! Not necessarily let em run around doing whatever they want, but if they all split how are you supposed to tax their pantz off?

The French screwed up in the 1790s because while they effectively removed the power structure, they allowed it, again, to escape and reconsolidate. Then in 1870 they tried again and were slaughtered. Ya gotta be careful with em. They'll come back and bite you in the ass if you don't sanction them with a firm hand.


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