# Who here rides a Surly?



## OutsideYourWorld (Mar 4, 2018)

Looking to get into the bike touring world. I've always hitchhiked, but on my last trip especially (Europe to Asia), I came across many roads and locations that I wasn't able to reach because walking or hitching just wouldn't work out. Also, cycling is the most practical way of getting from A to B by your own physical power. That's pretty important to me. 

Anyhow, something draws me to the Surly long haul trucker. One of the people who has inspired me so far is a Korean girl who has gone everywhere on her LHT. But new is... not cheap.

Now I definitely have the money to get it brand new, but I love... not buying new. I could get one for about $1200 CAD with racks and everything I need besides the panniers, replacement parts, etc in very good condition. 
I have seen them for as low as $400 on local auction websites, though I couldn't say what condition they were in. 

I know and agree with the idea of paying more initially for a product that will last, but i'm still not completely sold on it. I'm also very new to it all so i'm not jumping in until i've done my research. And this site has the kind of people that I believe are most closely aligned with what I value and want.

So, before I ramble too long, anyone got one/had one? Experiences? Pros/cons?


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 5, 2018)

i'm going to tag @Gypsybones since they told me about some awesome alternatives to the LHT but i can't recall their names off the top of my head.

i'd also like a LHT and that will probably be my next serious touring bike (but im open to other suggestions). i think it would be better to get a complete set up (or at least the frame, derailleurs, crank and rear cassette) than rebuild a frame since having a quality crankset would probably cost a lot on top of buying just the frame.

have you heard of http://tomsbiketrip.com ?

really great website with a ton of tutorials and guides on planning, buying a bike, etc. more info than you could cover in one night for sure. also has a book which is well worth the purchase, but everythings on the blog if you can't afford it.


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## TheWindAndRain (Mar 5, 2018)

Long Haul Truckers are trending right now, so they will be more expensive for their reputation. I think you are on the right track looking for a steel frame if you want to do a lot of loaded down dirt paths. If you can manage to go ultralight with your gear, I could see even an aluminum cyclocross bike being perfect for the job. Check out bikesdirect.com Have you considered motorized bicycles?


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 5, 2018)

TheWindAndRain said:


> Long Haul Truckers are trending right now, so they will be more expensive for their reputation. I think you are on the right track looking for a steel frame if you want to do a lot of loaded down dirt paths. If you can manage to go ultralight with your gear, I could see even an aluminum cyclocross bike being perfect for the job. Check out bikesdirect.com Have you considered motorized bicycles?



not to drag this too far off topic, but do you know any good resources for building/buying motorized bicycles?


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## OutsideYourWorld (Mar 5, 2018)

Thanks for the sites guys, i'll check 'em out.

I haven't thought about motorized bikes, which sounds cool but might make it a prime target for thieves? Which has been one of my bigger thoughts. When seeing more urban areas, or even just resupplying in a store, all your gear would be open for the taking, wouldn't it? I'm used to either taking my rucksack inside and/or storing it with a customer service desk or stashing it in a coffee shop. Keeping a bike with all your gear safe while you adventure around an area sounds like it could be a chore.

I'm keeping an eye on https://www.pinkbike.com/ for a deal at the moment.


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 5, 2018)

one reason i like panniers better than a trailer (i've tried both) is that you can take off the panniers pretty easily and bring them in with you if you really need to. that way it's only your bike that's outside (with a good u-lock) and i worry less about theft.

for quick trips into the store though (like a gas station or convenience store) just making sure you close up your panniers will deter most thieves since you'll be back very quickly.


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## TheWindAndRain (Mar 5, 2018)

Matt Derrick said:


> not to drag this too far off topic, but do you know any good resources for building/buying motorized bicycles?



motoredbikes.com, staton-inc.com and golden eagle bike engines have most of the best resources




OutsideYourWorld said:


> Thanks for the sites guys, i'll check 'em out.
> 
> I haven't thought about motorized bikes, which sounds cool but might make it a prime target for thieves? Which has been one of my bigger thoughts. When seeing more urban areas, or even just resupplying in a store, all your gear would be open for the taking, wouldn't it? I'm used to either taking my rucksack inside and/or storing it with a customer service desk or stashing it in a coffee shop. Keeping a bike with all your gear safe while you adventure around an area sounds like it could be a chore.
> 
> I'm keeping an eye on https://www.pinkbike.com/ for a deal at the moment.



You could lock the engines onto your bike and lock your bike to something sturdy and its really no extra burden. I have even locked mine to trees in the forest for several days.


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## OutsideYourWorld (Mar 5, 2018)

Tell me what you guys think of this guy:

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2235052/

I could probably weasel him down a little on the price, and i'd likely sell that secondary handle bar... I imagine I would sell the seat as well.

For panniers i've seen some decent looking less-known stuff on ebay. Brands like rockbros (which I have a set of and they're decent, so might use as front bags) I'd love something like ortlieb panniers but again those look to be asking to be stolen. 

Then there's things like this:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/AAWYEAH-Wat...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

nicely priced but i've only found one damn review... So could be cheap Chinese crap.

I've also seen guys on ebay selling converted military packs with attachments to make them into panniers. Cheap Czech rucksacks go for under $10 from many military sites, for example... Would be a cool project.


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## TheWindAndRain (Mar 5, 2018)

That price seems high to me for a 5 year old bike with sora. I think you could get a brand new or new oldstock bike with nicer components and buy all that stuff separately for less than that price. Around here, I saw a clean LHT sit outside at $500+USD for months.


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## OutsideYourWorld (Mar 5, 2018)

Yea? Surprising, around here barebones LHT's are over a grand :/ I thought Vancouver would have a lot more on the local buy and sell.


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## TheWindAndRain (Mar 5, 2018)

I mean I sold my one year old pugsley for $700 and I thought those were worth more


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## Gypsybones (Mar 6, 2018)

Salsa is a good alternative to the LHT, but I suggest you look into a Surly troll for its more MTB set up.

I currently ride a LHT and it has taken me almost 2,000 miles to get used to the geometry of a touring frame. (I'm a road bike/fixed guy)
It is the Lincoln of bikes (Not quite a Cadillac), and handles like one. I suggest the 26 overt the 700 if you want to go international


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## Gypsybones (Mar 6, 2018)

TheWindAndRain said:


> Long Haul Truckers are trending right now, so they will be more expensive for their reputation. I think you are on the right track looking for a steel frame if you want to do a lot of loaded down dirt paths. If you can manage to go ultralight with your gear, I could see even an aluminum cyclocross bike being perfect for the job. Check out bikesdirect.com




http://www.velonews.com/2014/08/news/bike-weight-myth-fast-bikes_339880

Weight isn't that much of a big deal, with steel you have the option of getting a break in the tubing wielded


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## TheWindAndRain (Mar 9, 2018)

True, though you can purchase a lightweight aluminum frame anywhere in America very cheaply if yours breaks. I rode a number of tours on dented specialized aluminum bike. If you are traveling outside "1st world" countries, steel would be the obvious pick though


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## OutsideYourWorld (Mar 9, 2018)

Alright so continuing along with my bike searching, I found what appears to be a reasonably priced Salsa bike. It's 54cm though, so being JUST under 6ft i'm not sure if it would be big enough.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/bik/d/salsa-disc/6515442191.html


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## Deleted member 16034 (Mar 16, 2018)

My bae raves about Crust bikes a lot, but is the first to point out that it is extremely expensive and just the frame. They currently have an old Bridgestone frame with a Crust cargo fork and toured from Austin, TX through San Diego to Seattle with it just fine. Kuba says old, rigid, steel mountain bikes from the 80s and 90s are the best for the price.


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## unrulywaunder (Apr 16, 2018)

The LHT is probably the best option.

Get them used off craiglist in Astoria, OR or San Francisco or Seattle at the end of summer.

Lots of people take off summers to cycle from the Atlantic to the Pacific. When they finish, they often will choose to sell it rather than pay ~$400 to pay to get it boxed up & shipped back home. Many of them spent all their money, and need to sell the bike to buy the plane ticket back home. The bikes will also generally be pretty fucked up (just components that can be fixed/replaced for cheap), so you can easily get a great deal.

I think the most popular cross-country ride is the TransAmerica, which goes from Yorktown, VA to Astoria, OR. Many will split from the TransAm & take the Western Express into San Francisco (I did this once). And the Northern Tier ends in Seattle.

The end of summer is a great time to pick-up a $1k bike for $500.

PS: I recently swapped my full-sized touring bike (Raleigh Sojourn) for a Brompton, which I just rode from Key West to Atlanta. I couldn't be happier, and I plan to take this bike with me to the Middle East & Asia. It literally is a carry-on item that fits in the overhead compartment on an airplane.


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## OutsideYourWorld (Apr 22, 2018)

I ended up going with a Curtlo bike someone was selling locally for pretty cheap. The guy worked at a bike store as well so I trusted the bike to be in good shape. Has S&S couplings in case I want to fly with it, which is pretty nice. Got front and back racks, brooks saddle, a heavy duty drum brake, and a bunch of fancy parts that are apparently really good that I have no knowledge of  for $500 CAD.


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## Antlered (May 3, 2018)

I have, and very much love a Surly LHT. One thing I always liked about it, was the fact that the stickers on it were easy to peel off. It's a cheap way to make a bike look less appealing to thieves. Shiny sells, and if your bike looks like a $100 Hoofit from SuckCo, most thieves will just mosey on by. "It ain't worth stealing, if it ain't worth selling." Besides. Stickers don't make a bike ride any different. 
There are other bikes out there that are basically clones. Levelish toptubes, headtube angles between 70 and 73 degrees, chainstays in the 450-510 mm range for heel clearance on the rear pannier. Braze-ons in a dozen configurations all touting optimal placement for touring. Best idea in my opinion, is to go to shops and try them out. Ride them for a while, sit on them. See where the levers, knobs, switches, buttons and such are. If something bugs you in the store, it will probably cause you to be committed after the third week on dusty back roads. 
Further things that I personally like about my bike. Tough powdercoat, in a single, simple glossy blue. Easy to touch up to prevent rust. Steel frame rated for "Big guy with a lot of junk." The ability to fit wider gravel tires that are about 42 mm. Much nicer ride than 28 mm. You won't win races on it. But that's not why you ride one. The rims that came on it were 36 spoke, double wall, eyeletted rims. A very solid choice for loaded touring. Over 3,000 miles in, and they are still as true as when it came out of the box. That includes curbs, potholes, some light trail, and the wonderful Idaho roads. (That look like the surface of the Moon.) The bar end shifters can be set up for friction shifting. I have always preferred friction shift to indexed. It's easier to trim gears by ear and feel once you get the hang of it. Nothing drives you as crazy as having a shifter that isn't adjusted quite right, and tries to put the chain between cogs. This will result in at best a steady chk-chk-chk-chk of a chain trying to hop up or down a cog. At worst, you can have the chain snag a tooth on the cog and bend it, or part the chain. Bummer. 
And now for the things I don't like about it. Well, it's heavy, but I knew that when I bought it. I've changed a bunch of things on it that didn't fit me right. First was the saddle. The one it came with was terrible. Get a different one. Second, because the roads out here are just _wonderful_ I bought a Thudbuster, by Cane Creek. It makes a whole universe of difference. Brakes. I got the rimbrake model of LHT, because I don't believe they had the Disc Trucker available at the time. Go disc brakes. Seriously. Rim brakes can be tricky to adjust properly, and they will ALWAYS wear down the walls of your rims. Disc brakes don't wear rims. They also handle the heat of braking down steep hills much better. Cable actuated are my preference here, as it's easier to jerry-rig a cable, than it is to jerry-rig a hydraulic line.
I added fenders, because road spray is gross. I added reflective tape to it, because it's lighter, more durable, and less apt to snag than a regular reflector. Red for the rear, white for the front of the fork, and some amber for the sides of the headtube. Satisfies the requirement for reflectors here in Potatostan. Lights, I went with a 1300 lumen photon cannon for the front, and a 50 lumen red tail gun. I've had people comment that they thought a fire engine was down the road, or that someone got pulled over by the cops. That's a good thing. I added other things to it that I can't think of right now. One thing I have wanted to put on, but never have, is a dynamo hub, and the lights that go with. That way, I never have that nagging worry, "Did I remember to charge my lights yesterday?" But that's an expensive system to end that question. I like the idea of the system that allows you to charge a cell phone, or something while you're pedalling during the day, but then I realized, you could just strap a solar panel to the top of a pannier and have more power for charging with no drag on the wheel. Your call on that. I think I'd go solar, as I can charge while sitting at a park or beach or somewhere too. Beyond that, I don't know what else to say. It's a bike that's stick 'n rock simple. Throw a dart at a map, pack some stuff, spin some cranks, and sooner or later you'll arrive. 
Keep the shiny side up, 
Antlered


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## Dunedrifter (May 5, 2018)

I totally agree about removing stickers; leaving them on is just begging theives to go after your bike. I’m contemplating removing the head badge too, maybe I’ll modify it to pin on my jacket. What about “uglying” it up?


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## Gypsybones (May 5, 2018)

Most bike thieves don't really know brands like Surly. They are in the market for treks and specialized


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## Antlered (May 5, 2018)

Dunedrifter said:


> I totally agree about removing stickers; leaving them on is just begging theives to go after your bike. I’m contemplating removing the head badge too, maybe I’ll modify it to pin on my jacket. What about “uglying” it up?



As long as your "uglying" doesn't involve denting the tubes, it's perfectly fine. Dents in tubes cause severe loss of structural integrity of the frame. Bad news for your investment. There do exist vinyl stickers that look like paint damage and rust. You can also get all artistic with a shredded piece of cardboard, some clear acrylic paint, and some actual rust that you sanded off of something. Put it in places where paint damage happens a lot. The sides of forks, top tube sides, chainstays, where your frame naturally gets bashed in the cities.

Have a fancy seat? Get a crummy, cheap seat cover that's all sun-damaged and taped together with five or so flavors of cheap tapes. Duct tape, electrical tape, hockey tape, whatever. Different colors too. Make it look like _garbage. _You don't have to ride with it on, just put it on when it's parked. Or take the seat with you.

Bags? Take 'em with you. There's no realistic way to make them look like they don't hold treasures.

What I think would be a cool idea for businesses/ campuses, and such would be outdoor rental lockers for bikes. Not just racks to lock them to. Fully enclosing a bike in a steel box keeps prying eyes off your machine, and makes it a lot harder to steal components or just simply vandalize a bike on a rack, because the person needs to prove that they are scum.

Idea that could possible make someone money follows:

How I can see it working would be a vending machine on the side that features a kiosk. Insert cash, swipe card, tap phone, and a paper ticket comes out. The ticket has numbers on it. This is the number of your locker, and the two 8 digit codes to open it twice. Once to put bike in, and once to remove bike. Why two codes? Added security in case someone is watching you enter your code. "Oh cool! His code is 08675309! That Cinelli is MINE!" lolnope. Sorry, dude. Codes are good for one use only, and are random. The kiosk only shows the person renting the locker one of them that is open, but otherwise, doesn't publically show which lockers are occupied, and which are open. This is an added security measure that makes a thief have to take more time. He has to be around and watch you put the bike in the locker. He can't just stroll by on a shopping run. 

There also could be a system for registering a bike too. Take a picture of your ID, next to the serial number of your bike. That way, if you lose your code paper, and have to call the 800 number on the side of the box, the service person can look you up, verify that it's your bike, and off you go with an "I'm sorry for the inconvenience" voucher. Heck, what if there was a function that it could initiate a video chat with someone that needed help? No phone required. That ID is also good for sending you a kind reminder that "Hey, your bike has been in the locker for 3 days, we'd really like it if you came back and got your stuff." A lever on the inside of the door, accessible ONLY from the inside of the door would also prevent someone from being trapped inside the locker.

I think this type of system would work better than the sharebike thing. Mainly because the SBs are one-size-fits-most. If you're really short, or really tall, you're outta luck. Second. SBs are typically really heavy, clunky things that generally suck. Ridden several, liked none. Third, the upkeep and maintenance of the SBs is the main reason they aren't widespread. They get vandalized, stolen, wrecked, left in canals, dumps, never returned. Fourth, the enclosed locker keeps your bike out of the weather, prolonging its life.

You could also put an actual vending machine near the locker that sells accessories and supplies for your bike, tubes, patches, small parts, bells, lights, batteries for lights and such. A DERO station with tools, and electric air compressor for airing tires could also be installed nearby.


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## Maxx Cringe (May 12, 2018)

My LHT was stolen in okc a couple days ago. I loved her... She took me to Tulsa and back over a few weeks, and I'm no athlete. Whyyy...

On the other hand I habitually left her unlocked every time I went out for over a year, and she only just now got stolen, so. I guess it's not all bad.


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## Antlered (May 13, 2018)

Getting a bike stolen sucks. Sorry to hear it. Don't know what to say about it, though, other than to keep your stuff locked up. Speaking of LHTs, mine is going to get some new racks and bags when I get the money to do so.


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## lordnose (May 30, 2018)

My Surly 1x1 in a previous life. It has fat slicks, fenders and added practicality now. They're great, rugged bikes but the one gotcha on them is they have really low stack over the front, so unless you like a ton of drop to your bars you end up running a bunch of spacer under the stem to get them up at a comfy height. You see it on LHTs especially all the time. Not a huge negative, just a quirk of the brand.


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