# Alcoholics Anonymous



## Desperado Deluxe (Nov 17, 2014)

Anybody have any experience with AA? Good or bad?

I've recently been going to meetings because I'm court ordered to do so. I haven't been drinking partially cause I'm sick of it and I've been meeting some cool people.
I'm finding that alcohol is fucking my life up and preventing opportunities from coming to myself and others. Just wondering about ya'lls experience. Maybe recommend some cool places to go to meetings in the future.


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## Dmac (Nov 17, 2014)

Awesome, keep coming back. it is a good place to meet people, get free coffee and to network. that being said, there was a guy from CA who sued the courts for making him go because their belief in a higher power infringed on his right to religious freedom (he was an atheist) he won and does not have to go .


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## Desperado Deluxe (Nov 17, 2014)

dmac66 said:


> Awesome, keep coming back. it is a good place to meet people, get free coffee and to network. that being said, there was a guy from CA who sued the courts for making him go because their belief in a higher power infringed on his right to religious freedom (he was an atheist) he won and does not have to go .


I think it was funny to go to meetings in CA because the head guy wouldn't sign my paper because its supposed to be anonymous and I had to ask a random person to sign it making it easy to forge. But here in GA its different.


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## Tude (Nov 18, 2014)

Hey man - good on you. I am not involved with it but bf has been involved for >5 years. I'm sending an IM. Good luck!


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## Dmac (Nov 18, 2014)

there is no way to track who signs the cards. anyone can do it, whether they are in the program or not.


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## landpirate (Nov 18, 2014)

i went for a bit. Didn't personally get on with it. Mainly because of the whole doing it for a greater power than ourselves part of the 12 steps. i am not in any way spiritual so I found this counter intuitive to me. I felt that I should sort my issues out with alcohol for myself and the tangible people around me that my behaviour was effecting. I still drink, not every day and when I do its not to the point of obliteration. thats the best I can do right now and actually I am happy enough with that. In the future who knows...

That however is not me writing AA off. I have seen it doing wonders for other people. If it works for your then go for it. Well done on addressing your issues. So many people don't have the strength to respect themselves enough to do it. Good luck.


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## Desperado Deluxe (Nov 19, 2014)

landpirate said:


> i went for a bit. Didn't personally get on with it. Mainly because of the whole doing it for a greater power than ourselves part of the 12 steps. i am not in any way spiritual so I found this counter intuitive to me. I felt that I should sort my issues out with alcohol for myself and the tangible people around me that my behaviour was effecting. I still drink, not every day and when I do its not to the point of obliteration. thats the best I can do right now and actually I am happy enough with that. In the future who knows...
> 
> That however is not me writing AA off. I have seen it doing wonders for other people. If it works for your then go for it. Well done on addressing your issues. So many people don't have the strength to respect themselves enough to do it. Good luck.



They actually have aithiest AA meetings haven't been to any of those yet so I'm not sure about the higher power thing with that. I've actually quit for about 2 years before and got into a shitty situation and started drinking again up until recently. I've just found that being among other people that don't drink and getting to know them creates a sort of community and can be encouraging.


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## wolf angel (Nov 27, 2014)

AA can be cool, you meet.some.interesting people who are.obviously committed (when its not.court ordered).

But for me it didn't work out, it made me feel like I was a problem that needed to be fixed but never could. They once got mad at.me for having nothing to share one day, and I was a regular.

And all the talk about god, drove me crazy, I can't pray by someone elses religion and they do praying circles.

But it works for a good friend of mine. If its something you need, do it. And coffee and cookies are a plus.


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## Scrappy (Nov 27, 2014)

I went for a while because I had to but didn't like it. Some people love it though. Personally, I find it too lala and whatnot. I don't want anyone telling me how to live act or think. I make those decisions for myself and if that decision is not to drink then I won't.


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## goldendose (Dec 2, 2014)

as an organization, AA/NA frustrates the hell out of me because- 1). it claims a monopoly on helping addicts, and 2). it refuses to grow and adapt new ideas/strategies/concepts. AA/NA is a stale and tired _institution_.

It's about time to do away with those "traditions" that the AA/NA acolytes insist on parroting over and over again. I would only be preaching to the choir if I warned you fine citizens of StP to ***BEWARE OF TRADITIONS***

AA/NA never did a goddamn thing for me but make me feel small and worthless. I'm a former opiate addict and I stopped getting high because I am powerFUL, not powerLESS. Don't even let these bastards try to tell you that you're powerless! If you let them sow that seed of thought of "powerlessness" in your brain then you better believe that there will always be a preacher/self help guru/con men right around the corner just waiting to harvest that shit.

I get angry when I think of the possibilities.... I get angry when I think of what _could be_. Addicts are my people, and goddamnit I LOVE them so much and it breaks my heart to see them fall into the AA/NA trap- where they are herded (all ALONE) back into a society that they had the decent and common sense to run away from in the first place!

I'll close with this: I think it's high time for someone to grab a hammer and a nail and go Martin Luther on these extraextra-regular mother fuckers. It's time for a Reformation.


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## Scrappy (Dec 2, 2014)

goldendose said:


> as an organization, AA/NA frustrates the hell out of me because- 1). it claims a monopoly on helping addicts, and 2). it refuses to grow and adapt new ideas/strategies/concepts. AA/NA is a stale and tired _institution_.
> 
> It's about time to do away with those "traditions" that the AA/NA acolytes insist on parroting over and over again. I would only be preaching to the choir if I warned you fine citizens of StP to ***BEWARE OF TRADITIONS***
> 
> ...


Radical... But sound


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## RedHeaven (Feb 19, 2015)

I tried it out a few times, but it really more than anything just made me want to drink more, and in fact gives you an excuse to do so.. "I'm an addict, always will be an addict, have no control". I found that a with shift in my perspective, brutal honestly with self, and taking responsibility for where I'd allowed myself to end up, I was able to focus on the bigger things in life and thus free myself of the whole of the "addict" persona, so today it's not impossible for me to drink and stop when I want. Same thing with drugs. I'm not saying it's always easy, but is life really supposed to be easy all of the time? No. All I know is, I feel exponentially better about myself since I started viewing things this way. When it comes down to it though, it would be ridiculous to claim a one-size-fits-all fix in regards to the subject.


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## huze24 (Feb 24, 2015)

goldendose said:


> as an organization, AA/NA frustrates the hell out of me because- 1). it claims a monopoly on helping addicts, and 2). it refuses to grow and adapt new ideas/strategies/concepts. AA/NA is a stale and tired _institution_.
> 
> It's about time to do away with those "traditions" that the AA/NA acolytes insist on parroting over and over again. I would only be preaching to the choir if I warned you fine citizens of StP to ***BEWARE OF TRADITIONS***
> 
> ...



Yup, do your homework...

Dr. Lance Dodes is the most recent to wade into this debate in a new book, _The Sober Truth: Debunking the Bad Science behind 12-Step Programs and the Rehab Industry_. Dodes combed through more than 50 studies and found that the success rate for Alcoholics Anonymous is between 5 and 10 per cent, which he calls one of the worst in all of medicine.

http://www.thestar.com/life/2014/03...ible_success_rate_addiction_expert_finds.html

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the...ymous_theres_a_better_way_to_treat_addiction/

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/


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## codycodnyk (Feb 26, 2015)

I have been to a few AA meetings. My mom used to have a deal with me when i was 15-16: each AA meeting i went to would score me 1 pack of cigarettes. I went to a couple but quit going. I also would go to them when i was like 4 or 5 because my Dad (rip) would go and had no one to watch us. I heard some crazy ass stories as a little kid, lol. 
It can be a real supportive environment and it helps people stay sober. Yeah, their ideology is slightly skewed (You have no control over your drinking and you are a mere helpless alcoholic without us or a higher power), but it saves lives. Honestly im drunk right now and alcohol is an addictive and sneaky drug that can put your nuts in some vice grips before you even realize. 
I quit going because i viewed it as a cult. That was just my pessimism and paranoia, though. Its a helpful community, it doesnt do miracles but it helps miracles happen. Some people just need to know there aee other people who feel the same way. I mean this website is meant for people who generally have few resources to come and talk, share ideas and support each other. Aa meetings are the same idea, pretty much. Cause when ypu realize youre not the only one in your predicament, it makes you more confident that you can work through it. Liquor destroys lives, so yay for AA, I guess?


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## Beegod Santana (Feb 27, 2015)

AA really makes me want, no, not want, NEED a drink. Fun fact, Bill W's dying wish was for 3 shots of whiskey and was repeatedly denied it by his followers, here's a decent article about it http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/bill-wilson-drug-war . He was also a strong believer in LSD (something the program would now rather you forget) and was a raging sex addict his whole the life. He was also the original "13 stepper," the thirteenth step being when an elder AA member uses a vulnerable new member for sex. Here's another fun article on that subject http://www.alternatives-for-alcoholism.com/bill-wilson.html . In addition, AA is based off two concepts. One being that alcoholism is a craving caused by an allergic reaction to alcohol, and two being that the only way to deny such craving is to give in to the power of god. Despite this line being shoved down people's throats there's extremely little evidence to back this up scientifically. Personally, I think it's all a buncha suedo-science brainwashing bull designed to make you clock in on time at the factory week days and at the church on weekends.


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## arianaholland1 (Mar 2, 2015)

Yeah my experience was going with my rehab at the time and offing their entire coffee pot. Since we were in rehab, we only got decaf but when we went to meetings you bet we chugged that strong coffee lol


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## Art101 (Mar 2, 2015)

Interesting comments.For me AA is more about society and support.I have 3 yrs clean and sober.I didnt get sober in AA.That was a personal choice on my part.I go to meetings to connect with others and for the comaradery that is found there.When you want to get sober it happens but you have to want to be sober.I dont have a "God" but I do have a higher power of my understanding.To each their own,it works for me and thats all I know.


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## Art101 (Mar 4, 2015)

Been giving a lot of thought to this lately(just passed the 3 yr mark clean and sober)and its amazing how good life is now.In my experience any addiction/recovery program has a less then stellar success rate.Its about what you want and where you are at in your life,like anything else.I will always be there if someone needs help,which for me one of the best parts of AA yeas some meetings are very preachy and that shit can get old trust me.On the other side there are meetings that are straight up and are very open about Bill W issues.No one is perfect but to come down on one program seems a little narrow minded.I'm sorry to anyone that has had a shitty experience in AA,just remember what works for one doesnt work for another.Reminds me when I was in PTOWN at 18yo we used to got to meeting above the Burnside youth shelter to drink good coffee and cage free smokes too lol.


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## Art101 (Nov 5, 2018)

Well looking at this 3 yrs later.Still sober havent been doing meetings.I know what happens if I drink or drug,at this point staying healthy and alive are big motivators.


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## Tadaa (Nov 5, 2018)

good to hear that @Art101 . happy for you !!


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## Robie (Nov 5, 2018)

I was introduced to AA when I was young, my mom had a drinking problem. I too later found myself forced into AA after I joined the Navy. Apparently I was setting too high a standard for the term drunken sailor. 
My first 4 years were defiance but I later found 'serenity in sobriety'. I too struggled with the higher power concept even though I had at one time been an ardent Christian in my teen years. 
I spent about 16 years going to meetings, the first 6 years almost daily when not underway. I even becoming a shipboard counselor for 3 years. I sponsored several members some who went back to drinking. 
I never found AA to be the magic pill to sobriety, yet it provided me with a lot of personal insight and ability to talk with others who also struggle with alcohol and drugs. But I also see value to the program, in the preamble (as I recall) it speaks of AA as being only 1 means of obtaining sobriety. 
I have not deliberately taken a drink since I was 20 years old, today I am 57. I haven't been to an AA Meeting since '96. I feel I have no need to go back to meetings, but I cannot dismiss what 'did work for me'. I do not and did not completely agree with all the principles and traditions. Yet I was given the freedom to use what works and dismiss the rest. 
Today I gladly and openly smoke pot and do mushrooms. I finally quit smoking cigarettes about 5 years ago, using a modified 'One Day at a Time'. However I find no desire or intent for any other drugs or alcohol. 
To be certain, there are many paths to an end, whatever choice you make to end the cycle of addiction I wish you the best.


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## Deleted member 20 (Jan 8, 2019)

I am approaching 5 years of sobriety on 3/1/19. I was a real bitter & violent asshole when I drank. (I know I still can be but I am getting better & trying to change, lol) I was a long time binge drinker who could polish the turd so to speak by abstaining while I repaired the damage incurred from my drinking. I got tossed out of the military, have had several DUIs, assault & battery charges while drunken, jaywalking & public nuisance type charges or getting PCd while drinking. I lost jobs, quit jobs, settled for less through life & had few true friends. I was opinionated & abrasive with little filter or contempt for conflict. I craved conflict as I was internally suffering in self induced pain. I craved the escape & conflict from having to deal with me. I recognize today that my drinking was just an underlying symptom of a broken man. While stopping temporally was possible to get new friends, a new job or show the probation officer that I was abstaining; that soul sickness never left me. At age 35 the physical ailments from decades of drinking started. I had adjusted my intake many years prior; I had never tried to intentionally get drunk. I would avoid getting drunk as best i could but it was inevitable once i had a single droop of booze. So I would avoid the hard stuff & only cheap beer if I was buying; if it was free than it didn't matter. Many times I was left out with my so called friends after acting up.

I eventually would vomit blood after drinking. First it started out just at the end of the night then after just a few beers like clockwork. It was accepted & went on for about a year worth of binge drinking. Each drinking escapade would require days in bed after; to heal. Cocaine became a friend a sit slowed down my drunkenness and allowed me to be somewhat civil compared to my drunken state. I was just a lonely dude who would repel all good people with my toxic demeanor. So in late 2013 I decided to try to "STOP" drinking in order to give my liver, ulcers & esophagus time to heal without booze. I lasted a few months white knuckling it without support, a program, a higher power or a plan. As I have never done any drugs without drinking; the lure to alter my psychological mind was not even considered during this dry period. I was just nuts & angry. I was following my fav punk band at that time & got a rideshare to Texas from Worcester & planned to hitch & hop to as many gigs as possible ending in Boston while still aiming to stay "STOPped" drinking.

One little emotional hiccup in Austin broke my eggshell of a will & I was drunk again under a bridge with a homeless Mexican girl after spanging late into the night. That wads the last drink I ever had & no desire or thought has ever returned. I didnt go to detox or a psych hospital. No alternative chemicals helped me get away from my drinking. I simply accepted my defeat under that bridge looking at a pool of blood after only 4 beers. I had been defeated by booze & had surrendered my will over to an unknown higher power as I could not beat my demons. I wasn't even religious or sure about who or what I was surrended myself to.

The lead singer noticed me trying to scrounge up a ticket on the sidewalk in from of Stubbs BBQ and told me that there was a way out of my misery. He said that he too was an alcoholic & once couldn't stay stopped when he finally tried. He told me about AA. I was so lost in my own life with only others around me who drank & drugged; I had forgot about how my mom,dad, grandma & sisters had gotten sober. That fucking cult of loosers was my last hope. I was a looser so I fit right in. The 3rd tradition gave me hope that they couldnty throw me out & they haven't yet. I stayed abstained through Mardi Gras in ATX, NOLA & Birmingham looking up at the sky smirking at God for his sense of humor. I never looked for a drink though. I made it back home to Boston & connected with fellow sober punx in Boston who surrounded the band. I started just going & trying to see my past part in things. I started to learn and to grow up while letting others in. I hid in meetings sometimes 3 a day. I often tell others to come for the coffee & stay for the miracle. My miracle is that I have never had a single desire or thought that I could ever drink again. The mental obsession & all my active alcoholic coping tools were simply removed from my use. I developed a toolbox full of healthy solution based coping skills for my life of inherited & acquired problems.

I never had a traditional sponsor. My sponsor was a dude who I knew from before I got sober. In hindsight I was most likely recruited for sobriety by these dudes. My sponsor was somewhat of an anarchist too & devoted his time to serving the poor and fellow drunks. He had never got past step 4 but was like 20 years sober. He may have been nuts too but he didn't drink no matter what. He went to the same hardcore South Boston AA meetings religiously every day, 2 & 3 a day. We became inseparable. He helped me find my own path out of my own self created abyss. I joined a few home groups in New Bedford and did the recovery rounds. I have only spoke as a speaker from a podium/speaker meeting a few times & almost all of the thousands of attended meeting where discussion meetings based on literature. That being said I have raised my hand at almost every meeting to claim my seat as an alcoholic & participate where able. I never believed in needing to evangelize the faithful & still don't. I drank, I lost & I got sober is the equivalent of all speaker meetings so why add all the pathetic hyperbole? I do believe that in sharing our experience, strength & hope through our story that we can transmit hope. That was what happened for me. I learned that there is a wrench to fit every nut. I also learned that the nut was me & my mind. I got to work collecting the appropriate tools. no longer could I use a sledgehammer & vice grips to fix the multitude of my problems. I could definitely no longer ignore them. It became clear that I could no longer work as a fisherman because I didn't want to be the only guy not drinking & drugging among my former active friends/peers. I needed to change everything about my former drinking self! I couldn't handle much but I got my mind back then a new found clarity eventually manifested. Out of the darkness came a sliver of light.

For my two year anniversary I received my medallion on the tour bus of that band with its sober members helping me celebrate. The next year me & that sponsor dude started touring in support of that bands nonprofit that raised money from substance abuse, kids & veterans. Now here i am an anarchist who questions the rules & is untrustworthy of others; I got sober & became trustworthy. I can & do go months without attending meetings but many of my acquaintances are sober like me. AA worked for me when I desperately needed it but unsure if I wanted it. I pick & choose what works for me in my recovery. I do not throw any money in the basket but no currency could repay what I have so freely received. I never actually went to a Doctor but I have not vomited blood in almost 5 years. I have not been in a fistfight, been arrested and have been celibate for as long too. To each his/her own but this has been what has worked for me. I am a happy non paying customer. This upcoming February I am traveling down to Texas to celebrate being 5 years sober on 3/1/19 where it all began. I have had a falling out with that sponsor & my former favorite band and all though we will all be in that same city some 2,000 miles away from our home. We probably will not be celebrating my 5 years together. That being said; without their suggestions, support & witness that it was possible' I'd be dead today. I know I am lucky & that those recruiters who introduced me to their AA way of life will always be celebrating my anniversaries with me in spirit.

I owe my life to such a simple AA program for all us such complicated people.


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## Deleted member 20 (Jan 8, 2019)

This kinda sums up my drinking for me in a song.


This song kinda sums up AA for me in a song.


This song kinda sums up my past drinking & subsequent time in AA with almost 5 years in recovery in a song. With hope in my heart'

P.S All of these working class bands struggled with substance abuse/depression but only one of these above anonymous bands suggested that I get sober on that sidewalk in ATX & invited me into their inner sanctum. P.S.S Erik Peterson committed suicide, Fat Mike still struggles with limited short stints in sobriety. Most everyone who knows me, knows my story but some of that story is not always mine to tell.


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## jimmyf (Jan 17, 2019)

I was in recovery for two years, and I learned a lot about life in it, but it's only temporary in my eyes. The whole happy thing they talked about only appeared to last a year to a year and a half, and I found it to be fairly common to see the most dedicated relapse after a year and a half to two years. 

I tried again recently, but nah, I'm good. I like my tree too much. I don't drink or do anything else any more though. I honestly find that calling my sponsor every day and relying on a group of people to lift me up can be a damaging addiction as well. 

I quit cocaine about a year and a half ago while selling it, and I literally quit every single day for 3 months before I could start getting 2-3 days clean at a time. Eventually, I never wanted to use it again. I did enough to damage my stomach to the point that I get a stomach ache before I get drunk now apparently. 

In general, recovery was the foundation of me learning Jesus didn't die for me to be an asshole as well as the foundation of my spirituality. I don't recommend recovery to anyone, but I also wouldn't tell anyone not to go especially if they haven't gone before.


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## Jackthereaper (Jan 17, 2019)

jimmyf said:


> I was in recovery for two years, and I learned a lot about life in it, but it's only temporary in my eyes. The whole happy thing they talked about only appeared to last a year to a year and a half, and I found it to be fairly common to see the most dedicated relapse after a year and a half to two years.
> 
> I tried again recently, but nah, I'm good. I like my tree too much. I don't drink or do anything else any more though. I honestly find that calling my sponsor every day and relying on a group of people to lift me up can be a damaging addiction as well.
> 
> ...


Lets not act like a cannabis habit and alcoholism are even comparable.


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## Deleted member 20 (Jan 17, 2019)

Jackthereaper said:


> Lets not act like a cannabis habit and alcoholism are even comparable.



Well for some of us who are recovering addicts & alcoholics; the idea of using any mind altering substance to escape reality could quantify as not being sober/clean depending how one defines it. I can see all points & respect the way that others choose. I dont define who is a drunk & or an addict but my idea of sobriety is complete abstinence from anything that is not rooted in my accepting reality. No one can prove my sobriety to me but me, nor can anyone dispute it or take it away. As the drink is just the tip of the iceberg, if ones behavior is living dirty but they are abstaining from booze/drugs are they sober & or clean? I knew stickup guys & bank robbers who were still doing jobs while 5 years sobah? P.S The one dude is still continuously sober & works as a court officer, now lol. Then again I do know plenty who do the marijuana maintenance program that works to combat serious dependency to coke, heroin & booze. While weed may be perfectly harmless to other, same as booze, coke, pills etc for others; in me I go from 1 sip of booze to an eight ball of coke in a few hours. While weed was never my thang; I aint gonna roll them dice.



jimmyf said:


> I honestly find that calling my sponsor every day and relying on a group of people to lift me up can be a damaging addiction as well.



Totally agree. I never called a sponsor daily & think that many in my homegroup are still struggling against that first drink. When they hear that it was lifted by the GOG in a spiritual experience they just resent me & my journey as it different then there's. Keep doing what you are doing & change when & if you need to. No man have ever been able to live my life for me so I wont depend on them for advice. I somehow find my way while bucking the traditional AA recovery hypocrisy. They do say the god takes care of fools, infants & alcoholics & I have been all 3.


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## roughdraft (Jan 17, 2019)

to add to this complex and important discussion i would like to cite a close associate who has 35 years sober and is very successful in her life including a distinguished career that is not accessible to most.. 

at some point she transcended the need to go to meetings and well, still sees people around town from the program who sometimes pressure her into attending "because she added so much to the conversations". while i find this well meaning on their part.. i could not help but feel a bit of a plight there

basically she found a way to live clean without the program, *through* the program and that is a very good thing... everyone manages differently


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## jimmyf (Jan 17, 2019)

I truly believe 12 step programs are wonderful places for people to go. I just know for myself and potentially a few others, it had some unnecessary pieces to the puzzle while missing a few others. 

I spent two years clean about 7 years ago. I’ve seen people leave and do better, but I’ve also seen them leave and do worse.



roughdraft said:


> to add to this complex and important discussion i would like to cite a close associate who has 35 years sober and is very successful in her life including a distinguished career that is not accessible to most..
> 
> at some point she transcended the need to go to meetings and well, still sees people around town from the program who sometimes pressure her into attending "because she added so much to the conversations". while i find this well meaning on their part.. i could not help but feel a bit of a plight there
> 
> basically she found a way to live clean without the program, *through* the program and that is a very good thing... everyone manages differently



To me, once you’ve learned your own balance, you gotta step back and let the program do what it does and let people find their own balanced solution, because what works for her may not work for others. Just as what I do may not work for anyone else.


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## Deleted member 20 (Jan 17, 2019)

Equanimity


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## Deleted member 20 (Jan 17, 2019)

Regardless of how anyone stays sober or doesnt; having another whos down with JC & has at least serioussly attempted a program of action with Faith to get & live better; is still huge. We need more opinions on trying to live better from people who are doing it. I aint no evangelist but I do got a radical sobah way of life that many in our community have never lived. Thanks for joining STP, good luck traveling!


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