# White Privilege



## xbocax (Jun 2, 2011)

So the majority of people on here are by common standards white
White privilege is a common discussion point around the camp fire amongst me and my mostly brown friends
they tend to be more extreme than I am as far as it goes but Id like to hear what the other side of the fence has to say
to you acknowledge or disregard that there is a white privilege?
how do you deal with it internally if at all?
As far as my thinking about it goes I just start very basic and break it down from there
the majority of people that succeed in this country are white
colored peoples cultural tendencies are generally stigmatized in the media
class seems to be more and more the basis of mistreatment in this country but generally people of color have been to a degree forced into the lower classes via exploitation 
the education system in areas where there are many people of color tend to be complete shit and most history classes literature classes etc etc are based on euro centric figures 
Im constantly re evaluating my thoughts on it but in its most basic form i feel white privilege is slowly mending with classicism but with the basis of system where minorities can not and have not gotten very far.
the list could go on and on because its such a wide topic but ima shut up now to see what others think


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

If you look back on where our country was 50years ago and where we are today it has changed alot. In my high school we spent more time on black history than anything else. It might of had something to do with the fact we only had 11 white kids in the whole school. I think with the news and how it always seems to be blacks shooting people or robing someone it tends to break the sprits of the younger kids who want to be more in life. I know whites do the same thing but its more focoused on blacks. But I think when it all comes down to it, its all about the choices you make in life and how far your willing to go to better yourself as a person. It dosnt matter what race, sex, or class your in because someone is going to find something about you and complain and put you in a some type of group. its like saying all of us are drug addicted drunks who only live for our next fix. and we all know thats not true but its how alot of the U.S. sees us. If your willing to work hard then its all that matters. look at Oprah.


----------



## katbastard (Jun 2, 2011)

i wrote this poem when one of my girl friends told me i was privileged.

how am i privileged
just cuz i am white and male?

what you don't know ,
is that my life has been pillaged
living in this eternal hell
trailer parks and homelessness
lonely nights in prison
never knowing happiness
what was my sin?
so, when you say that i am privileged
you really have no idea
so keep your fucking mouth shut
until you've lived within my sphere.ï»¿...


----------



## xbocax (Jun 2, 2011)

having a white privilege does not guarantee anyone a get out of jail free card or a wonderful life, just the opportunity in more situations than a colored person would to succeed. Hell I see white homeless people all the time. But it cant be denied that in the business world and many arenas in society in general whites are treated and looked at with a higher standard.
here are some instances of white privilege which may or may not be related to you if you look like a weirdo anyway by societies standards
you probably will be able to go shopping at the grocery store and not be followed
you can turn on the tv or open a newspaper and see people of your race widely represented
you can be sure that what your children will be given info in school which will testify to an existence of their race
you can count on your skin color not making people preconceive whether your check or card will go through
you can speak in a public place without putting your race on trial
you can do well in a situation without being considered an accredit to your race
if a cop pulls you over you can be sure its not because of your race
you can choose blemish color or bandages that will somewhat match your skin
you can go to any barber and they will know how to cut your hair
you hang around in groups of 5 or more without looking suspicious
just to name a few


----------



## pigpen (Jun 2, 2011)

my favorite part about the white-priv debate is that most APOC i know don't obsess over identity politics nearly as much as "white" people. what i mean is it seems to me that the debate is usually centered around a bunch of middle class "white" kids sitting around obsessing in some strange form of intellectual masturbation. 

does white-priv exist? certainly. is it a problem? of course. acknowledge it, do what you can to subvert it and then shut the fuck up and get over yourself.


----------



## pigpen (Jun 2, 2011)

oh yeah and don't forget to smack a white boy


----------



## xbocax (Jun 2, 2011)

hahaha you.............i like


----------



## Gudj (Jun 2, 2011)

I can't believe you haven't been flamed yet for posting this and called a crimethinc fag.
Privilege in general is something that most traveler kids and punks either are oblivious to or defensive about. It seems really difficult to get apolitical kids to give a fuck.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm white and I can assure you it hasn't done a damn thing to make my life any better than anyone else's. If I am somehow in higher standing than someone of another race, it's because I worked for it and didn't spend my time bitching about how someone else has it easier than me.

White privilege, a banner for the lazy and unintelligent to hide under.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

Traveler said:


> I'm white and I can assure you it hasn't done a damn thing to make my life any better than anyone else's. If I am somehow in higher standing than someone of another race, it's because I worked for it and didn't spend my time bitching about how someone else has it easier than me.
> 
> White privilege, a banner for the lazy and unintelligent to hide under.


 
so very true


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm mixed 'race' heritage, etc.
Half South American & half Italian.

Whites hate me cause I'm not white enough
and brown n black folks hate me cause I'm not brown enough.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Linda/Ziggy said:


> I'm mixed 'race' heritage, etc.
> Half South American & half Italian.
> 
> Whites hate me cause I'm not white enough
> and brown n black folks hate me cause I'm not brown enough.



This is a great example of why everyone should breed within their own race. Go ahead and rage and call me racist but her words say it all. If you mix, your offspring stands a good chance of becoming hated by those of single race lineage. Do your future children a favor.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

one day we will all be one race. when that day comes we will have to find something else to bitch about. my dad always told me not to "muddy the waters". thing is you can go fuck whoever you want, i dont care. thats your choice. its also your choice to rise above all the bull shit and become something that noone can bitch about. im white with blonde hair and blue eyes and pale skin. people think im just another dumb blonde, wtf ever.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Puckett said:


> im white with blonde hair and blue eyes and pale skin.



Don't waste the genetics, we're going extinct!


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 2, 2011)

Traveller you need to get a grip.
There are no PURE races.

Everyone everywhere has intermingled.
I love that I am mixed !!!!!!
Don't use me as a scapegoat for your racist thinking.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Linda/Ziggy said:


> There are no PURE races.



That's not true. My family is German/Irish as far back as records have been kept(and that's quite a while). Figured someone would call me racist.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

Traveler said:


> That's not true. My family is German/Irish as far back as records have been kept(and that's quite a while). Figured someone would call me racist.



german/irish is mixed. 
just because its 2 diff whites dosnt mean its pure.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

No, white is white. German and Irish are just subs of the same race.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

yeah but it can still be consitered diff races. Irish are mainly pale with red hair, german are mainly darker with dark hair.
we all have a right to our own opnion, its part of being human. 
now i would never hook up with someone who wasnt white, but does that mean im a racist? not to me, but to others they might think that. my thing is we all are people, we are all made of skin, bones, flesh, and blood. i have my opnions and i dont judge others for theirs. i have friends of all colors. of all believes.


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

I hate to be the one to stir the pot of poo, but there are only 3 "genetic" races of humans on this planet... 

The classification by race is not as simple as most people think.
Skull shape is the major way of difining the Three major races.
It has been found that skull shape is only ageneral thing rather than an absolute.

the Major races are.
Caucasion:
Skull: Dolicephalic(Long-Head),High forehead,Little supraobital development.
Face: Mainly Leptoproscopic( Narrow)Sometimes Meso- or even Euryproscopic, Neither Facial nor alveolar prognathism occurs except among some archaic peoples.
Nose:Long,narrow,high in both root and bridge.

Mongoloid:
Skull: High incidence of Brachycephaly(Short Round Head)
American Indians while Mongoloid are often Dolicephalic.
Foreheads slightly lower than that of the Caucasoid.
No Supraobital development.
Face: Wide and short, projecting cheek bones, Prognathism rare. Shovel shaped incisors common especialy in Asia.
Nose: Mesorine(Low and Broad in both root and bridge.



Negroid:
Skull: usually Dolicephalic, a small minority are Brachycephalic.
Forehead most often high, little supraobital development.
Face: Leproscopic (to a much lesser degree than the Caucasion), Prognathism common in most Negro populations.
Nose: Low & broad in root and bridge with characteristic depression at root.

But anyways, my 2 cents is this: poor white trash aint no different than anyone else when it comes to privilege. I should know, I was born poor white trash and believe me, my skin color aint what pulled me out. Now I'm out, I want back in... Who wants a house and car, and boat for free? ITS YOURS YOU CAN HAVE IT, if you wanna feel privileged....


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

i thought mongoloid was a turm used for people with down sydrom


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

lol, nope... thats ur classic asian race"... mongoloid


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

well it was befor it became politaly incorrect, and like i said we are all skin and bones


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Puckett said:


> and like i said we are all skin and bones



Very true but from an anthropological stand it's just like thapoet said


----------



## Puckett (Jun 2, 2011)

ok but what about mexicans? where do they fit in the three cadagorys?


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

They are mixed. Resulting from thousands of years of migrations of various races.


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

actually mexicans are predominantly caucasian (of spanish decent) and mongoloid (asian decent though native american ancestry)... but as anthropology goes they are caucasian... Did you ever notice on the papers you fill out at the doctor now it says caucasian- non-spanish, and caucasian- spanish decent...


----------



## venusinpisces (Jun 2, 2011)

One aspect of the white privilege debate that is usually not discussed is the history of indentured servitude which was virtually identical to slavery. The Irish were considered to be of the same social status as blacks up until very recently. Indentured servants also went through exactly the same horrific oppression as slaves: families were split up, they were beaten, raped and many were even killed. Despite the fact that servants were supposedly able to be released from debt bondage, the overwhelming majority were unable to escape crippling poverty and never owned property. The legacies of indentured servitude can still be seen throughout Appalachia and the South, where the descendants of those servants absolutely do not have the same opportunities as your average blue blooded Anglo-Saxon. The families who founded this country were part of an elite network that required more than whiteness alone for a person to gain access. While racism is alive and well in this country and others, I think the emphasis on it at the expense of class can actually play into the hands of elite interests. Focusing solely on the issue of white privilege minimizes the underlying injustices faced by all peoples, instead keeping people infighting instead of looking at commonalities such as the fact that America's wealth has been stolen by the banker class. 

Personally, I've lived in a lot of different types of neighborhoods and have seen comparable levels of poverty in the inner city as compared to the mostly white trailer parks in the South. It makes sense that elites would encourage POC to hate "whitey", through corporate-funded hip hop as well as other methods, while encouraging whites to do the same with POC, mostly through scare tactics about immigration, black crime and people on welfare, because it prevents everyone from looking up the chain of command to the true source of their oppression. I will not go so far as to say that racism is dead. Whoever thinks that is ignorant(just look at Travelers comments), But what I take issue with is that it's seen as socially acceptable to talk about inbred white trailer trash yet the same types of comments directed at blacks in the inner city would be met with severe criticism, as they should be. Why is this double standard allowed to exist, even though promoting the idea of inbred whites justifies eugenics and the unjust social policies that result from it? Could it be that this happens because dividing the rabble is a way of preventing organized dissent? I don't want what I'm saying to be used as a way of dismissing the concerns of people in the antiracist movement. But there is another side to the story and I think that is just as important.


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

wow venusinpisces, you were able to cram about 2 dozen great points into that one post! DAMM GOOD POINTS!!!


----------



## Gudj (Jun 2, 2011)

Traveler you racist piece of shit, how did you even find this website? Also, white is _not_ white all the time. I am white now, but 100 years ago both of my heritages would have not qualified for white privilege. 

The rest of you white privilege denying people claiming that being white doesn't make things easier for you and your family are denying the extent that racism and white supremacy exist today. Which doesn't make alot of sense since you obviously have access to the internet and it's either the topic of, or appears between the lines in almost every news story.
Grow the fuck up and acknowledge this shit instead of denying it or being defensive. You aren't shit for being born "white", but there are privileges that go along with that that you need to recognize, not abuse, and try in whatever way you can to distribute to other groups as well.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Gudj said:


> Traveler you racist piece of shit, how did you even find this website? Also, white is _not_ white all the time. I am white now, but 100 years ago both of my heritages would have not qualified for white privilege.
> 
> The rest of you white privilege denying people claiming that being white doesn't make things easier for you and your family are denying the extent that racism and white supremacy exist today. Which doesn't make alot of sense since you obviously have access to the internet and it's either the topic of, or appears between the lines in almost every news story.
> Grow the fuck up and acknowledge this shit instead of denying it or being defensive. You aren't shit for being born "white", but there are privileges that go along with that that you need to recognize, not abuse, and try in whatever way you can to distribute to other groups as well.



All I'm getting on my end is rage, rage, propaganda, rage.


----------



## Gudj (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh yeah I forgot to ban you. 
I'm sure you'll still be welcome on the stormfront forums.


----------



## Traveler (Jun 2, 2011)

Gudj said:


> Oh yeah I forgot to ban you.
> I'm sure you'll still be welcome on the stormfront forums.



I don't post nor am I member of stormfront silly.


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

wow! wth happened here??? i never realized being a free bird meant having to succumb to being politically correct ! Censor police or something .... wow!!! I guess I need to go back and read where this whole racism thing came from??? Well, if I am not banned after this I suppose I will read it... 

And for what its worth, white is not privileged... I live in Louisiana and I can tell you that the Black Business-owners Association will agree with me on that one! They will tell you that Education makes one privileged. Followed closely by up-bringing... followed closely by common sense! (That is a direct quote btw.... )


----------



## plagueship (Jun 2, 2011)

finally, for once i am down with someone getting banned! what an idiot.

obviously white privelege (or male, cisgender privilege, able-bodied privilege, or whatever form of privilege is hip to talk about this week because it's in someone's cultural studies class / on anarchistnews, etc) is NOT a get out of jail free card, an unlimited charge card or anything like that. in fact i think a big part of the reason the anarchist / leftist scene are so worthless is because they are so bogged down in this kind of identity politics and fail to recognize (as anarchists and marxists historically did) CLASS as the primary contradiction in our society: whether you have control over your life, or whether you don't. most of us don't and the races, sexes, etc were created as stabilization mechanisms for systems of power; white privelege is a bargain struck between the (then mostly white) upper classes of the 18th century and the light-skinned, european-descended working class of the same time, in order to stop irish people conspiring with black africans to overthrow british colonial societies. it is a relative, not an absolute privilege which still exists within the same context of a system based on a general exploitation of labor...

now... things have changed. the president and the governor of my state are both black men and many of the leading political figures are female in this country. clearly we are not in a "post-racist, post-sexist" america but i think we are approaching something like it, and i don't actually agree that in and of itself this is such a great thing. consider, all that matters in the coming society is that you are a productive part of capitalism (or a kind of federal, cybernetic socialism or whatever it is tomorrow). it will be more efficient, more rational, and no less based on the premise of forced labor. it just takes into account more identities, more social causes and needs than ever before, environmentally friendly and so on.. in some ways it's already here. you can get gay-married and smoke legal weed, you just can't not work unless you were born rich or intend to live as a criminal.

"smack a white boy indeed", this brings me back to white privilege and - as i assumed this op initially wanted to discuss it - as it pertains to the traveler and anarchist scenes. i am aware that many people in these scenes, including myself, are "white" (note to 'traveller' and whoever else, race does not have a substantive biological reality, it is the social interpretation of biological traits...), middle class and suffering from a kind of guilt about this - a guilt that some of us express by refusing our opportunities like college, work, and legitimacy in general. it is true that a filthy homeless punk with face tattoos doesn't have the same kind of white privilege that some clean cut dude in a suit does. but they might be siblings. i think coming from a background of, even relative, privilege leads many people to a kind of mental freak-out where they have to try to renounce it. it's fine to want to reject an unfair system but if everything step is taken in reaction to guilt then unfortunately you are walking a spiraling path into guilt-ridden, authoritarian, manipulative leftist identity politics, such as would only invert present systems of power and call it justice - 'smack a white boy', what the fuck, i am a white 'boy' or man and i have never done anything to you. also you look pretty white-privileged in your picture. i suppose you'll say next that men should cut off their dicks because we're all rapists or some shit...


----------



## katbastard (Jun 2, 2011)

thapoet said:


> I hate to be the one to stir the pot of poo, but there are only 3 "genetic" races of humans on this planet...
> 
> The classification by race is not as simple as most people think.
> Skull shape is the major way of difining the Three major races.
> ...



your an idiot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)


----------



## katbastard (Jun 2, 2011)

oh and i am sure the tattoos on my face profile me more then any brown skinned person


----------



## Gudj (Jun 2, 2011)

katbastard said:


> oh and i am sure the tattoos on my face profile me more then any brown skinned person


 
I'm sure that depends on where you are and what company you are in.


----------



## katbastard (Jun 2, 2011)

Gudj said:


> I'm sure that depends on where you are and what company you are in.


 
i have 30% of my body tattooed, diy. then my face. pretty much any time a cop or judge sees me i am detained or what not. but hey what do i know. i am just a big white jewish kid


----------



## thapoet (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm an idiot??? you quote wiki, but i am the idiot? Seriously dude? Name calling???? WOW!!!! You preach about one supposed hatred by espousing another??? NICE! 

If you want to get SUPER technical about it bro, theres only ONE race of human.... and that one is HUMAN... Race itself was predominantly made up by ETHNIC groups... The ANTHROPOLOGICAL aspect of RACE is what I POSTED.... Here, you can have this thread, because I was under the impression that the gentleman that started the thread was looking for INTELLIGENT conversation... peace out....


----------



## outskirts (Jun 2, 2011)

The whole concept of race is such an odd thing. I mean after all we're still part of the same species! Biologically speaking any one of us could breed with any other person of the opposite sex on the planet. Maybe one day humanity will move beyond this race stuff and finally do something about "CLASS"... I doubt that will ever happen though.
In the mean time, yeah, privilege still exists, but you find it in different forms all over the world. Here it's race based, in other parts of the world it's religious based. Then again we may have some religion based privilege here, after all we do have a black president now. But I'm sure the day this country has an atheist president... is a looooong time coming!


----------



## xbocax (Jun 2, 2011)

so what im getting is i guess its just where you grew up and how you are now
I can see how someone whos only been raised in impoverished white communities could negate that there is a white privilege
and me who sees it much more often being from So Cal could disagree and fus all day
I guess the topic is slightly more relevant from community to community but hardly any of the privileges i listed were ever touched


----------



## outskirts (Jun 2, 2011)

Some of us live in very strange worlds as far as race goes. Though my background is mostly white, I do have black and American Indian ancestry, enough to have non white features which are highlighted every summer by my easily tanning skin. I have been mistaken for everything from Brazilian to Iranian. I think many people see what they want to see("racially") when they look at me.


----------



## venusinpisces (Jun 2, 2011)

xbocax said:


> colored peoples cultural tendencies are generally stigmatized in the media


 I would mostly agree with this although appropriation might be a better word, in my opinion. One theory is that POC have different forms of intelligence besides the right brain analytic intelligence that is so highly valued in our society. Kinesthetic intelligence, for example requires spatial awareness and fine-tuned motor coordination that can be used for art, athletics or aviation. Typically, American culture thinks of these skills as being "low class" but this backwards thinking is a big part of the reason why our economy is on the verge of collapse since manufacturing jobs and other blue collar skills have been deemphasized. Beyond our present destructive society, indigenous cultures had a more holistic understanding of the world (a quality associated with right brain thinking) so that people's knowledge wasn't infinitely subdivided and specialized the way it is now, where we have entire nations of helpless idiot savants who live their lives through a screen. Compare this to previous centuries, where most people had a generalized skill set that allowed for them to not be completely dependent on industry for their every basic need. I'm not against civilization like some people here but it does seem that we need to incorporate some aspects of the "primitive" mode of perception if we want to have any hope of survival as a species. And since whites and Asians have been living in industrialized, bureaucratic societies the longest, those groups exemplify the analytic traits more than other cultures, which is *not necessarily always a good thing*.


----------



## outskirts (Jun 2, 2011)

As an experiment, a friend and I once dressed in traditional middle eastern clothes and went into a grocery store. She is of mixed background, white & Inuit. I can't even begin to describe what the stares felt like, and from them all, the white customer, the Latino cashier, the black security guard who followed us around. You could feel the hate or suspicion in many of their eyes. It was a very creepy thing to experience.


----------



## plagueship (Jun 2, 2011)

outskirts said:


> Maybe one day humanity will move beyond this race stuff and finally do something about "CLASS"... I doubt that will ever happen though.


 
are you serious? do you not think class is the most important thing in the world? who is worth more socially in 2011, a black female millionaire or a poor white dude? who would have been more important even in 1900?...


----------



## Menyun (Jun 2, 2011)

I think It depends on where your at and how you look at it... I grew up in a mostly native american town where job priority went to them and at their casino's its even stated that native americans have job priority. Which is kinda fail I think cause thats against the law for anyone else to do. As I see it, it comes down to effort. How bad do you really want it? etc. Now I'm not saying their isn't priv. out their because its all over but not only for white its out their for most races... As a white man I can't get a college scholarship just for being white yet they have black scholarships, schools, etc. Same goes for natives. I don't see much as far as hispanics although they do have hispanic heritage clubs in HS where they don't for whites. Asians probably have the least priv. but seem to do the best with nothing. Could just be from what I've seen though havn't been in a largely asian area. With large companies they even get tax breaks and what not for hiring more minorities. going to your questions though and my exp... "you probably will be able to go shopping at the grocery store and not be followed" - when I worked retail we were taught to follow and watch anyone that looked suspisious... I'm by no means racist but im sure if i were they would probably play a part in who I followed but with the people I worked with I would say a generaliztion of what we considered suspicious would be dirty steet kid types would be top priority to follow then after that anyone that seemed to be hiding behind racks or constantly looking your way would get your attention. "you can turn on the tv or open a newspaper and see people of your race widely represented." I would say tv and newspapers are mostly whites that are on them, although, you don't ever see a white person getting cudo's for being white on them either do you? and you often do with blacks or hispanics. "you can be sure that what your children will be given info in school which will testify to an existence of their race" - I'm not real sure what you ment by this one in school I learn about alot of cultures/histories... Whites, Nativies, Indian's (India Indians =P), Asians, etc.... I can't say I remember studying a africian curture though with the exception of Egyptian... but to my knowledge blacks never had a giant empire way back when. "you can count on your skin color not making people preconceive whether your check or card will go through" I think that comes down to appearance kinda like the following suspisious people thing if you look broke people think your broke... my older brother looks like a red neck straight out of the trailer park drives a old beat up chevy but in reality he is a computer programer thats makes 150k+ a year and lives in a 500k house. "you can speak in a public place without putting your race on trial" I lol'd a bit on this one because half the time where im from when a black or native doesn't get their way here they always say "its because I'm ______ isn't it? "you can do well in a situation without being considered an accredit to your race" - im not sure on this one it could be because of minorities wanting the high praise or lack of acredible people among color so they put in any average day crap.. I do actually see that alot and unsure as to why most the time. "if a cop pulls you over you can be sure its not because of your race" I think this one goes with where you live If a majority of crime commited in a area is by one race thats what cops will consider suspicious although their are always different circumstances I have a friend that will admit he racial profiles against blacks but he is black and his reasoning behind it is that he tries to stay on top of the people in the neighbor hood he grew up in to keep them in line best he can so they don't make him look bad. "you can choose blemish color or bandages that will somewhat match your skin" I think your trying to confuse me again but make-up was originally made by a white woman right? but they make all colors now hell I seen a commerial for that just the other day. and bandages im not sure on the original color choosing, but the ones that are a light tan color now are probably that way because the original ones were but you can get them and all colors I like the sponge bob ones myself.=) "you can go to any barber and they will know how to cut your hair" anyone can cut straight hair it takes more skill to cut coarse curly hair. and that comes down to location in a way aswell If I go to the barber in BT and just ask for a cut I just want it short and to look good he's going to edge my hair where other barbers don't do that and if they never have before they wouldn't even know thats to be expected from a black guy. "you hang around in groups of 5 or more without looking suspicious" that falls into a pattern of crime their arn't many white gangs to be suspicious of but if a large group of whites were to pull up on motorcycles I guarentee the cops would pay attention..... lol Kinda lost my train of thought hope that helps some coming from the white perspective. Oh and Pigpen I dare you to smack this white boy i'd break your fucking neck.... If you didn't mean that offensively then ignore me as being retarded or whatever but I guarentee you wouldn't touch me if I was in your face unless you either had a death wish or your just out of your mind.


----------



## Menyun (Jun 2, 2011)

damn lol thats alot bigger post then I thought it was gonna be.


----------



## Dishka8643 (Jun 2, 2011)

I think it just depends on where you are. Most people tend to favor others of the same race. 

I'm white, and having went to a mostly black school, I firmly believe that white privilege is complete bullshit. White guilt, however, is extremely prevalent. In my school, most of the teachers were black, and they favored the black students. Black history month started a month before and ended a month after February. We even learned about that shit in math class. We had assembly after assembly about how amazing african culture is, and how bad whites were for enslaving them. They seem to forget that thousands of whites died fighting in the civil war to ensure their freedom. I didn't feel like being white gave me any advantage in that environment. 

On the opposite side of the spectrum, a black person in a mostly white area would probably face a lot of the same stigma. Just depends on the people and the local culture. I don't think it's a universal phenomena.


----------



## outskirts (Jun 2, 2011)

I was reffering to the whole world in general not just America.


----------



## outskirts (Jun 2, 2011)

plagueship said:


> are you serious? do you not think class is the most important thing in the world? who is worth more socially in 2011, a black female millionaire or a poor white dude? who would have been more important even in 1900?...


 
I was reffering to the whole world in general not just America.


----------



## katbastard (Jun 2, 2011)

thapoet said:


> I'm an idiot??? you quote wiki, but i am the idiot? Seriously dude? Name calling???? WOW!!!! You preach about one supposed hatred by espousing another??? NICE!
> 
> If you want to get SUPER technical about it bro, theres only ONE race of human.... and that one is HUMAN... Race itself was predominantly made up by ETHNIC groups... The ANTHROPOLOGICAL aspect of RACE is what I POSTED.... Here, you can have this thread, because I was under the impression that the gentleman that started the thread was looking for INTELLIGENT conversation... peace out....



there is only one race and that was my point, to pull out the old anthropological racist aspect is not that intelligent, that ideal of race is way outdated and as far as i am concerned very far right white power rhetoric.


----------



## Dishka8643 (Jun 3, 2011)

Traveler said:


> I'm white and I can assure you it hasn't done a damn thing to make my life any better than anyone else's. If I am somehow in higher standing than someone of another race, it's because I worked for it and didn't spend my time bitching about how someone else has it easier than me.
> 
> White privilege, a banner for the lazy and unintelligent to hide under.


 
I Absolutely agree with you there. And as far as being"racist" so what if he wants to ensure the continuity of his blonde haired, blue eyed genes. That's his choice. If a colored person said they didn't want to breed with whites, I doubt anyone here would have said a damn thing. This double standard pisses me off more than anything. 

And I think in a lot of ways, blacks actually have it easier in this country. In schools, teachers are trained to "pump up" the self-esteem of black students, while givinig white students less support, assuming that they don't need it. Blacks are taught to be proud of their race, while whites aren't taught about their ethnic heritage at all. There are tons of after school programs for black adolescents. The purpose of that is to counter-balance the negative effects that segregation MIGHT have on a black person's self-esteem (even though segregation is no longer in use) Black politicians and community leaders often pass legislation that is specifically designed to help their race, and they are allowed to do so. If a white mayor opened up a private school for at-risk white children, people would be throwing the racist card left and right; yet that happens all the time in inner-city black communities.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 3, 2011)

soundpath said:


> I think it just depends on where you are. Most people tend to favor others of the same race.
> 
> I'm white, and having went to a mostly black school, I firmly believe that white privilege is complete bullshit. White guilt, however, is extremely prevalent. In my school, most of the teachers were black, and they favored the black students. Black history month started a month before and ended a month after February. We even learned about that shit in math class. We had assembly after assembly about how amazing african culture is, and how bad whites were for enslaving them. They seem to forget that thousands of whites died fighting in the civil war to ensure their freedom. I didn't feel like being white gave me any advantage in that environment.
> 
> On the opposite side of the spectrum, a black person in a mostly white area would probably face a lot of the same stigma. Just depends on the people and the local culture. I don't think it's a universal phenomena.


 
my high school was the same way. and lets not forget it was black people who sold us most of our slaves.
and when i hear blacks talking about how the whites owe them i just simply say, i myself have never owned a slave so i dont owe you shit. what it really comes down to is if your an asshole then im not going to be your friend but if your cool then we can hang out. to me racisem only effects and influnces you if you let it. if no one let it then it wouldnt excist.


----------



## thapoet (Jun 3, 2011)

Puckett said:


> my high school was the same way. and lets not forget it was black people who sold us most of our slaves.
> and when i hear blacks talking about how the whites owe them i just simply say, i myself have never owned a slave so i dont owe you shit. what it really comes down to is if your an asshole then im not going to be your friend but if your cool then we can hang out. to me racisem only effects and influnces you if you let it. if no one let it then it wouldnt excist.


 
Agreed... I've often wondered if blacks who talk about how much they are owed through reparations and such if they ever take into consideration the blood ransom paid by over a million people during the civil war. That was one helluva price tag, especially for a war that began with industrialism and ended with the freeing of slaves. 
And in answer to kat, whether you or ANYONE else ever admits it, the whole white privilege debate is just another affirmative action mission statement issued for "race" leverage. And furthermore, just look around and you will see that racism is not a white disease, its a human disease. It affects us all. And it DOES its job well, just look at what came out of this thread!

Look, I REFUSE to feel sorry for myself, SO I SURE AS HELL AINT GUNNA FEEL SORRY FOR SOMEONE WHINING ABOUT COLOR AND SO-CALLED "RACE"... 


"I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself." 
(D.H. Lawrence) 

we should all take lessons from nature..... Nature doesn't see race, or color....Nature sees food and shelter. BUT, a wild thing will also fight to the death to protect its small little place on the planet...


----------



## katbastard (Jun 3, 2011)

closed


----------



## xbocax (Jun 4, 2011)

damn black people sometimes have it easier
lets not forget it was mostly blacks that sold slaves to the americans...................
I guess this is just preparing me for when I get outside the south west


----------



## xbocax (Jun 4, 2011)

at the very least i can only encourage y'all to watch 500 years later the documentry


----------



## xbocax (Jun 4, 2011)

here watch the last 2 minutes of this
its very unsettling how a topic of how whites have privileges in america turned into
well its kinda the africans fault and theyre better off now anyway
almost every point i made was never touched and people took the opportunity to not accept what has happened and to a degree is still happening in this country
its why to this day there has never been a formal apology by the government to people whos ancestors were abused mistreated and degraded 
we can accept and grieve over everyone elses holocaust but our own
http://youtu.be/3Db3RGsS93o


----------



## venusinpisces (Jun 4, 2011)

xbocax said:


> its very unsettling how a topic of how whites have privileges in america turned into
> well its kinda the africans fault and theyre better off now anyway


I wouldn't necessarily assume that the people who posted in this thread are representative of the squatter/traveler population as a whole. There are many people out there who recognize that Native American genocide and the transatlantic slave trade is what this country is founded on. Speaking for myself, this is one reason why I will never be able to look at the "founding fathers" as heroes or defenders of freedom, since every single one of them worked to enable the eradication of Native peoples while living off of slave labor. If you want to meet up with people who are sympathetic to this viewpoint then there are many in the anarchist scene who would agree. But as for street level travelers, a lot of them come from poverty and the idea of white privilege simply does not apply to them the way it does to someone from a middle class background. I think that white privilege is a relative concept that applies to some people at some times but it is not a universal get out of jail free card the way some people have characterized it. One area where I think it does apply is hitchhiking which is definitely more dangerous for people of color. But it's also worth keeping in mind that the majority of things on white privilege checklists also apply to people who are visibly dirty or have lived outside without education or resources for most of their life, including job discrimination, police profiling, etc. 

*Some* travelers are middle class and can go back to their parents' house to get a shower, but other are not and these are the people who may be the most antagonistic to the idea of white privilege, because when it is framed in absolute terms, it completely erases their own history. Of course, there are also ignorant conservative people who think that anyone who works hard enough can be president/a millionaire and I'm not even going to attempt to defend that viewpoint because it's not based in reality. I'm not trying to dismiss what you have to say because it's an important perspective that people need to hear. But since you asked for the other side of the fence, I hope you can hear that there are people who recognize the reality of racism while also seeing that the situation is more complex than a checklist could convey.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 4, 2011)

your right haha i guess it was a little overwhelming


----------



## venusinpisces (Jun 4, 2011)

There were a lot of ignorant responses so I probably would have felt the same way. I got a little stressed out by some of the "panhandlers are worthless parasites" comments that have been showing up on here recently too.  The anonymity of the internet has a tendency to bring out the worst in people at times, unfortunately.


----------



## Ken (Jun 4, 2011)

I think The Onion pretty much sums this up pretty well.


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 4, 2011)

Hey all, I thought this forum got closed yesterday ??
Anyway Venus in Pisces I like your post above and that you talk about class/class priveledge too.
Thank You.
I come from a working class background, not raised poor but been poor the
majority of my life now.

Also great you mentioned the Native American/First Nations struggle.
Basically the 'founding fathers' brought the African slaves over because the
Native Americans resisted colonization & genocide so much & so many had been
mass murdered, there were'nt enough left to enlsave en mass the way the Africans were.
So I find it sad & very ironic that there are many African Americans who do NOTHING to work
for Native American rights.....

Not to say there were not totally fucked up things going on on this continent
before the Europans arrived, there were - but not on the industrial capitalist 
scale that the Europeans were doing it............
We also can not ignore religious colonization.....
Also important to not blame white Xtians for everything & then ignore
how much of the world has been colonized & enslaved by Islam..........

I think it is vital to fight racism but also for people to get over their liberal guilt,
it doesn't help anyone - least of all the people liberals claim to be in solidarity with.

If it came down to it and there was a race war / fascism I would be dead
because I am mixed.....


----------



## Gudj (Jun 4, 2011)

So again, peoples responses are talking about how other privilege exists too, and how fucked up some other stuff is, but no-one is owning their own privilege. Talking about how your life as an individual white person has been harder than the lives of some individual people of color is beside the point. White supremacy is a systematic issue.

Yes, it was closed. It obviously is reopened.


----------



## quagRZ (Jun 4, 2011)

white privilege is a myth, it seems the more your willing to crush the people below you and fork over alot of funds to other people willing to do the same, only then will you be granted privilege no matter what color you are, its all a matter of how much green backs you have in the bank.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jun 4, 2011)

katbastard said:


> your an idiot
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)


 
kat, watch the name calling. you're not exempt from getting warnings yourself


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jun 4, 2011)

Ken said:


> I think The Onion pretty much sums this up pretty well.




that's fucking hilarious. and yes, i think it does sum it up well, i fully acknowledge that my life has been faaaar easier due to the fact that i am white. i think it would be silly to say otherwise.


----------



## JungleBoots (Jun 5, 2011)

i tell this to alot of colored people ive met that talk to me about how fucked up the black experience is. and ussually they arent talking about white privalidge they are talking about just how stupid they peoples is.

one good long trip into the ghetto is all you need to see.

Crabs in a bucket.

if anyone has gone crab fishing they can tell you this; you put one crab in a bucket it can reach out and get free... you put 6 or 7 more in a bucket the crabs will crawl all over eachother pulling eachother down in their desperate attempt to get out. you dont even have to put a cage over top its that consistent that not a single one will escape.

now i dont mean to compare blacks or just plain poor people of any color to crabs. but ill tell you I dont know how many times ive seen young black men reaching out to escape the ghetto only to be pulled back in by they own peoples in their desperate attempt to escape themselves. Kids killing kids for sneakers, and petty cash, an entire culture that looks up at dealers as if the money they make is substantial. As if B-ball is gunna be their ticket out, b-ball or the rap game.

an entire culture that raps and sermons talking shit about gettin trump rich when their uncle with a mechanic job comes by to help every monday with their momma's grocery expenses. course the kid doesnt get a damn job... but he'll suck the life out of that uncle... or whoever it is that actually has a chance.

Sure whites fucked shit up... sure blacks got alot to bitch about... sure i even carry a bit of white guilt on my back fo sho.

but most of what the blacks got to bitch about is the fucked up situation their peoples keep them all in.

Its not my fault. its not my father's fault, and it sure as hell wont be my future kid's fault.

honest to god the only people on this planet that havent ever been given a proper chance of reparation is the native americans. the blacks aint got shit on what the sioux went through.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 5, 2011)

Ken said:


> I think The Onion pretty much sums this up pretty well.



awesome


----------



## xbocax (Jun 5, 2011)

o them po po black folk we givem so many opportunities and they just cant grasp how to figure it out
we givem welfare they buy 40s
we givem schools and they use our math to sell drugs

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

i have nooooo idea how this became so much about blacks because the thread was about white privilege in america but for the most part no person or culture has ever gone out of their way to not fit into society or kill themselves off

1/3 of our nations history involves blacks being slaves where they were shipped packaged and degraded
2/3 they were seperate but "equal"
and how long do you think after that it took to get over that?
how long would it take you to feel human again if you were ripped from your family forced into slavery had to learn a new language and forced new beliefs
anyone that thinks that every culture that is destructive is that way because of their own choice is just down right in denial and doesnt want to own up to some truths

if your going to say blacks r in the ghetto because they want to be you better hav an argument for every other ethnicity as well you better have an explanation as to why by coincidence all the "succesful people" in this country all happen to be around the same skin tone and why those who "fail" tend to be every other color but that

you cant do it 
not without being racist
its no fucking coincidence all these things


----------



## Menyun (Jun 5, 2011)

Life's a bitch, their will always be instances of privilege in one form or another and/or times of some getting plain screwed. 

Racism ... yea thats a pointless topic you can bitch about that for 100,000 more years and unless in that time we bread into a nice brown mixture it will still be around. You remember being called names as a kid? you either ignored it, cryed about it, or got in a fight... ignored the problem went away with time, cryed they kept on, and fighting if you won they stopped calling you names but it got you suspended (as an adult you dont get suspended but you just might die). So don't let anyones opinion of you or whoever effect you. Words are words they only effect you as much as you let them.

If you live in a community where your frowned apon or at a disadvantage for whatever reason and want people to have a different preception of you. Then force change.. when you work bust your ass go above and beyond what your asked to do. Be a asset to your community and I guarentee you any disadvantage you think you have will go away for the most part(always gonna be that stupid racist-just dont let them be apart of your life). 

Live, Love, and Laugh at the end of the day do what makes you happy and forget about all that doesn't. Oh and love some more... dirty butt sex is where its at.


----------



## Menyun (Jun 5, 2011)

Just my opinion but should probably keep this thread closed... For lots of us their was no such thing as white privilege. And it comes across as almost offensive so people get defensive about it and turn it around into something that has the potential of getting very nasty. My experience I see natives as having the privilege others it will be blacks or asians or whoever their may very well be more white privilege then the rest but not where I grew up. Try being white in south africa. or being any color other then white in russia... lol you got it made if your in north america or the UK. Let history be history. Acknowlege it but dont dewl on it. Respect what happened and learn from it.


----------



## dirtyfacedan (Jun 5, 2011)

Don't call me white......


----------



## Puckett (Jun 5, 2011)

venusinpisces said:


> Of course, there are also ignorant conservative people who think that anyone who works hard enough can be president/a millionaire and I'm not even going to attempt to defend that viewpoint because it's not based in reality. .



wow i dont see how you can say this. every parent tells their kids if you work and try you can do anything, well maybe not your parents if you would post this comment. you think any of our presidents sat around and said "well if i sit on my ass all day ill become the president because thats how its done, go fuck hard work" no i dont think so. did bill gates not work hard with some of his buddies to make the apple computer? 
If you work hard and dont do stupid shit you can become anything you want. I have seen it done first hand.


----------



## Dishka8643 (Jun 5, 2011)

xbocax said:


> o them po po black folk we givem so many opportunities and they just cant grasp how to figure it out
> we givem welfare they buy 40s
> we givem schools and they use our math to sell drugs
> 
> ...



Dude, where do you come off believing that "all sucessfull people" in this country are white? That may have been true 100 years ago, but times have changed. Hard working, attractive, intelligent people, with good communication skills become successful. It has very little to do with skin color. Have you noticed the president is black? And even before he was president, he was a pretty successful fellow. So is his wife. And racial favoritism happens everywhere, to people of all races, not just among whites. 

And I can't understand why you expect all white Americans to feel "sorry" for people of other ethnicities. That is absurd. A large portion of white americans have immigrated to america well after slavery had already been abolished; seeking a better life and escaping oppression of some kind or another. 

And for those who have ancestors that participated in slavery, why should they feel sorry? It's in the past and they are not responsible for the actions of their forefathers. At the time, slavery was a common, global phenomena with people all over the world. Africans enslaved each other. Europeans enslaved each other. Native americans enslaved each other. It was just a reality of life at that time. 
I realize the issue isn't slavery, but It seems to be the underlying cause of all this tension, so I think it's worthy of discussion.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 5, 2011)

O i think im just going to lay down everything that this thread is not then be done with it haha

this thread is NOT for whites to feel guilty about whatever their ancestors have done
this thread is NOT saying that every white person will succeed beyond a shadow of a doubt
Privilege is NOT defined as making a lot of money and owning 50 cars
this thread is NOT about the enslavement of any specific person no matter how much you want to think it is

This thread IS about everything i had initially listed where pretty much whites have the Privlege of walking into a store and not being followed
of not having their race pu on trial every time theyre on tv
not being a credit to their race when they do good and shame to their race when they dont
and all the other things i had initially written 

if we'd like to open a thread about black struggle please do but do not equate black struggle with white privilege because they are totally different

I am a brown person and will never ever understand any persons struggle but my own because i am not in their shoes and have not walk the road they have gone down. I will help whenever i can and fight the good fight but always on the side of others struggles.

Liter skin all throughout the world seems to have its privleges from here to India
just becuase you didnt turn out rich doesnt mean that when you walked into market and then preceeding you any person of color walking in wasnt immediately monitored
its about perception and how when a white person does something they are generally judged by their merit unless of course they dress like a "dirty street kid" and when a person of color walks in they are first judged by the ideas of their race theeeeen maaaaybe by their merit

that is the white privilege the fact that europeans "established" this nation there for had the upper hand and to this day that ideology has carried through 

your not bastards for having it
your not evil people for it working out in your favor 
its just a reality to look at analyze and fix whenever possible as gudj put in so many words


----------



## Puckett (Jun 5, 2011)

Like i said befor if we look at eachother as people and not color there would be no raseism. and i belive that. but we would still find reasons to descrimanate against eachother. maybe one day when we are all one tone and their are no differneces then we will realize this. but its never going to happen because some people are just set in their ways no matter what.


----------



## JungleBoots (Jun 5, 2011)

as has been said before. all of the factors that lead to the myth of white privilege are really issues of class, not race.

its about familial wealth whether or not you are born with financial privilege.


----------



## Gudj (Jun 5, 2011)

Puckett said:


> If you work hard and dont do stupid shit you can become anything you want. I have seen it done first hand.


 
hahah
Yep, we can all be the president and rockstars someday.

Thinking like this completely fucking ignores reality.


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 5, 2011)

Oh boy !!


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 5, 2011)

This is all getting strange............


----------



## Puckett (Jun 5, 2011)

Gudj said:


> hahah
> Yep, we can all be the president and rockstars someday.
> 
> Thinking like this completely fucking ignores reality.



yeah if you try hard enough you can.
i went to middle school with this girl, she was so shy and yet if you read whats on the link you will see if you work hard you can do anything, look at all she has done. and im sure 99% of everyone on here has never come close to anything she has. yet she worked hard and look at her now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Siad


----------



## Puckett (Jun 5, 2011)

Puckett said:


> yeah if you try hard enough you can.
> i went to middle school with this girl, she was so shy and yet if you read whats on the link you will see if you work hard you can do anything, look at all she has done. and im sure 99% of everyone on here has never come close to anything she has. yet she worked hard and look at her now.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Siad



and i mean what she went threw as a child, we forget even though we might have it bad here, things can always be worse


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 6, 2011)

Sorry Puckette but plenty of people work/try fucking hard and don't have shit to show for it,
regardless of their background and how hard they try.

Anyway I am done with this forum. Later.


----------



## Puckett (Jun 6, 2011)

Linda/Ziggy said:


> Sorry Puckette but plenty of people work/try fucking hard and don't have shit to show for it,
> regardless of their background and how hard they try.
> 
> Anyway I am done with this forum. Later.



and there are how many kids say they want to grow up and be doctors, lawyers, artist and whatever else. im not saying we will all be rich but it is possible to be what you want if you try.


----------



## JungleBoots (Jun 6, 2011)

Puckett said:


> and there are how many kids say they want to grow up and be doctors, lawyers, artist and whatever else. im not saying we will all be rich but it is possible to be what you want if you try.



i dont deny that being born rich and white has benefits that makes things easier...

Maybe the american dream isnt real...

but to a certain extent puckett is right... you want to be a doctor... you can be a doctor... you want to be a circus clown be a circus clown... no one is stopping you even if you are a minority. you yourself have to take your life into your own hands and do what has to be done... if you dont make it you have got no excuse but that you didnt try hard enough.

this doesnt mean that the poor are poor cause they are lazy... but it means that if you dont want your dream job then you gotta bust ass to get it. Same as if you want to survive years of being a hobo... it aint easy... you gotta work hard to keep your lifestyle livable.


----------



## Often (Jun 7, 2011)

Being a white man: "You can't even hurt my feelings."


----------



## Linda/Ziggy (Jun 7, 2011)

If you don't 'make it' you didn't try 'hard enough'
Wow !
So how come your not a Doctor ??
Is it fun to slum it here on STP, on the streets, at the soup kitchen ????

Middle class white people are so funny !! hHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
I assume you are white and middle class cause you sure talk like one.

I think this posting summs up what XBOCAX was trying to get at about privilege in his original posting.

Help meeeeeeeeeee.........
I got sucked back into this forum..
Later folks!
Love n kisses
Linda/Ziggy


----------



## xbocax (Jun 7, 2011)

Often said:


> Being a white man: "You can't even hurt my feelings."


 
whole heartedly


----------



## Nelco (Jun 9, 2011)

katbastard said:


> i wrote this poem when one of my girl friends told me i was privileged.
> 
> how am i privileged
> just cuz i am white and male?
> ...



nice one


----------



## JungleBoots (Jun 9, 2011)

Linda/Ziggy said:


> If you don't 'make it' you didn't try 'hard enough'
> Wow !
> So how come your not a Doctor ??
> Is it fun to slum it here on STP, on the streets, at the soup kitchen ????
> ...


 
why am i not a doctor? cause i decided early on i didnt want to be... i probably dont have the will and patience to become one. Did you try to be a doctor? if no... why didnt you try?

anyone, ANYONE with enough shear will and motivation can get enough finances to get their asses through college, and even get graduate degrees. I know kids that pay off their entire full time tuition working bull shit jobs, they didnt even need financial aid. and anyone can get the jobs they had. AND GUESS WHAT!? one of them was black... another was a 2nd generation mexican immigrant.

do i enjoy being homeless being a hobo... i cant say its always fun.... i can say that i made the choice to be one and I bust my ass to survive and to keep a look out to keep myself safe in a very unsafe world. Its not easy... but honestly... yes... its fun... i enjoy it. im proud of it.

yer right i talk like a middle class white kid... why because ive had enough time on this earth in the few 24 years i have to realize shit doesnt just fall on your lap... shit takes work and time and effort. if you dont put effort fourth you wont get what you want.

but my concession is this... yes... some people dont have to put fourth the same ammount of effort to get what they want as others do... are all people like that white? no... because race does not directly lead to ease of life... wealth does.

im not calling the rich the hardest working and most deserving and im not calling the poor lazy...

im saying if you want something... you have to stand up and take it... period.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 9, 2011)

its hard to say anyone can be whatever they want
especially when you have to go through countless amounts of red tape and people that will deem you worthy or not worthy
i can just get a medical degree and get a job at a hospital i have to be hired first
and if they dont wanna hire because of the way i look they dont have to
so to say you can be whatever you want is only half the truth
you can be whatever others will allow you to be most the time
also
what if a little girl in the middle east in areas where women arent allowed to go to school wants to be a doctor?
what if my mom depends on me to bring a check home every 2 weex just to save my family from starving?
to say you can be whatever you want is definitely something that would come out of the mouth of someone that couldve been whatever they wanted not the less privileged 
dont speak for me until youve walked in my shoes


----------



## JungleBoots (Jun 9, 2011)

either find a way or dont...

red tape? like what? whats red tape?
i can see issues of red tape in job availability with people with fellony records...

the way YOU look? or the way any general person of color looks?

because if you mean YOU i would say if i was hiring people even at a mcdonalds a white crusty hobo would really have to prove to me that they are worth my time, and thats generally the mentality of most other employers i see. maybe it would be a good idea to wear a dress shirt and tie to a job interview... maybe it would be a good idea to look professional when looking to get into a professional job... if you are talking about image and the way YOU look. (this is just example... im not assuming you personally dont already know this.) point being... how do you look when you go to get your job? how you look at an interview is like 90% of how an employer makes a hiring decision.

otherwise the situations you proposed contain issues brought on by political law, and class standing. Not an insideous white minority's priviledge that holds back minorities with implicit race favor.


----------



## plagueship (Jun 10, 2011)

outskirts said:


> I was reffering to the whole world in general not just America.


 
isn't that where most of the people on this board live / travel / have spent most of their lives?


----------



## xbocax (Jun 10, 2011)

JungleBoots said:


> either find a way or dont...
> 
> red tape? like what? whats red tape?
> i can see issues of red tape in job availability with people with fellony records...
> ...



i shouldve used the term complications instead of red tape

it doesnt matter whether its me or a person of color point is if someone doesnt like you because of how you look your not getting the job i was rebutting your stance on anyone can be w/e they want not necessarily the people of color issue

but if youd like to get into that the restaraunt i work at hires nothing but cute whit girls for the wait staff and not my gf who is of color when i brought it up the manager said he hired the girls he did its because what the customer wants

to think you can do whatever you want based on merrit completely does not take into account the fact that unless you build your own w/e from the floor up you will always have to appease others and others may not like your piercing, color, accent etc etc

you can say if you were a manager blahblahblah 
but
your not everyone and the fact is there are pleanty of people that will decline or accept you based on appearance whether that be things youve done to yourself or just the body you were born into.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 10, 2011)

also the situations i proposed were a rebuttal on the you can be whatever you want argument and not the white privilege topic but as youd imagine based on my stance white privilege would just add a whole other dimension to the limits people may face


----------



## xbocax (Jun 10, 2011)

heres a little exercise go to google images and put in every profession you can think of
youll be o so surprised to find that 90% of the time all the people will be white
sometimes youll get black
and verrrrrrry rarely some other person of color


----------



## Puckett (Jun 10, 2011)

xbocax said:


> heres a little exercise go to google images and put in every profession you can think of
> youll be o so surprised to find that 90% of the time all the people will be white
> sometimes youll get black
> and verrrrrrry rarely some other person of color



when you google an image 90% are white? i dont get the point of this statement. the pics you google depend on who puts them on the internet in the first place. and it depends on what your goggleing. so still i say i dont get this statement.


----------



## pigpen (Jun 10, 2011)

this thread is dildos


----------



## UrbanNokizaru (Jun 10, 2011)

You don't have to believe it's a universal phenomena, white people are still statistically richer than people of color, the same way men are statistically richer than people of other genders. There are exceptions but in general that is the global trend. The way society at large sees it is that white is normal and white is neutral, if you think it's harder on you because you look crusty/have face tats/whatever, know that if a person of color did the same thing they'd have to deal with shit twice, once for being a poc and once for their appearance and presentation. The truth of the matter is as a white person you are statistically more likely to have illegal drugs on you, but as a poc you are statistically more likely to get arrested and charged for drug crimes. Look at prison statistics and compare them to population statistics, why are poc more common in prison than outside of it? It's because discrimination and racism still exist and are alive and well. I'm not saying we haven't made progress but there's a fucking long way to go. If you are white you are experiencing benefits because of that whether you acknowledge them or not will only make me consider you a ass or not...


----------



## Puckett (Jun 10, 2011)

this is so very true.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 10, 2011)

point of the exercise issssssssssssss that in every form of media whether it be tv, movies, internet, or paper to some degree whites will always be sure to know that they will find someone of their heritage being portrayed in some fashion. Their existence as a people is acknowledged.


----------



## plagueship (Jun 10, 2011)

i think there should be an obvious difference between people who either don't understand or don't want to acknowledge that what we're talking about in terms of privilege is not just "racism" in terms of prejudice, but the way that the unequal distribution of resources, opportunities, etc, has been structured by the history and present reality of white supremacy as a prop of euro/american capitalism and imperialism - AND on the other hand, people like me who do acknowledge this but point out that the nature of race, privilege, whiteness, etc in the structure of our society is changing.

or you know, you could just say that everyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant rich white cisgendered corporate fuck who has never read a book. i guess that's more of an "anarchist" way to handle basically any conversation.


----------



## 614 crust (Jun 11, 2011)

soundpath said:


> I think it just depends on where you are. Most people tend to favor others of the same race.
> 
> I'm white, and having went to a mostly black school, I firmly believe that white privilege is complete bullshit. White guilt, however, is extremely prevalent. In my school, most of the teachers were black, and they favored the black students. Black history month started a month before and ended a month after February. We even learned about that shit in math class. We had assembly after assembly about how amazing african culture is, and how bad whites were for enslaving them. They seem to forget that thousands of whites died fighting in the civil war to ensure their freedom. I didn't feel like being white gave me any advantage in that environment.
> 
> On the opposite side of the spectrum, a black person in a mostly white area would probably face a lot of the same stigma. Just depends on the people and the local culture. I don't think it's a universal phenomena.


 
very well said. White privilege is bullshit. 
If anything I feel discriminated against for being a white male.
and I'm not even fully white. I come from american indian descent as well but because my skin is white and I'm male that makes me a piece of shit. Whatever. Fuck all that, Fuck all the racist bullshit as well and definately fuck all the super PC I'm hollier than though bullshit most of all. I'm a nomadic human thats it. And if you don't like me for who I am you can choke on my fucking dick.


----------



## CXR1037 (Jun 13, 2011)

White privilege is a myth generated to make people who can't succeed feel better about themselves. And also, all the hardcore progressives seem to think that white people have everything handed to them, yet at the same time most of my white friends are unemployed and the Hispanic kids I know are?


----------



## xbocax (Jun 13, 2011)

CXR1037 said:


> White privilege is a myth generated to make people who can't succeed feel better about themselves. And also, all the hardcore progressives seem to think that white people have everything handed to them, yet at the same time most of my white friends are unemployed and the Hispanic kids I know are?



sounds like something youd hear during the separate but equal days well they really havent left but yah


----------



## xbocax (Jun 13, 2011)

bleh w/e every argument against has very little if any situations, experiences, and or facts to back it up. Its jus well it was hard for me so it doesnt exist or i was poor so i dont believe it. If after reading all this your not swayed one way or another then thats just the way it is if you did read any of the arguments at all or you just decided to throw your 2 cents in w/o reading any of it.


----------



## CXR1037 (Jun 13, 2011)

*rolls eyes*

What in the name of God are you talking about? How is this anything at all like the separate but equal days?


----------



## xbocax (Jun 13, 2011)

your argument is similar to an argument that would have been used during those times
maybe if you read some of those books at the anarchist book fairs instead of showing up and rolling your eyes @ everyone youd get it. its ok i understand life's aggravating when everyones so dumb.
i dont even know why i was surprised haha 
we'll b here to catch you when you fall off that high horse


----------



## CXR1037 (Jun 13, 2011)

Yeah, life is pretty aggravating when everyone is so dumb. Thing is, no one uses common sense. I rolled my eyes when I walked into the bookfair because it's a bunch of whiny punk kids preaching to their completely ineffective choir. And then afterwards, when everyone is so intoxicated on ideas of oppression and injustice and the like, they get truly intoxicated on drugs and alcohol and ride trains to some other city, they steal and complain and "live the dream", and nothing gets done at all.

Yeah, it's really aggravating when everyone's so dumb. 

I'll be here to catch you when you fall into reality and you leave fairy tale world behind.


----------



## xbocax (Jun 13, 2011)

ima quote you on that


----------



## 614 crust (Jun 13, 2011)

CXR1037 said:


> Yeah, life is pretty aggravating when everyone is so dumb. Thing is, no one uses common sense. I rolled my eyes when I walked into the bookfair because it's a bunch of whiny punk kids preaching to their completely ineffective choir. And then afterwards, when everyone is so intoxicated on ideas of oppression and injustice and the like, they get truly intoxicated on drugs and alcohol and ride trains to some other city, they steal and complain and "live the dream", and nothing gets done at all.
> 
> Yeah, it's really aggravating when everyone's so dumb.
> 
> I'll be here to catch you when you fall into reality and you leave fairy tale world behind.


 
haha good shit


----------



## Beegod Santana (Jun 13, 2011)

I think whats left of true "white privileged" is just simply the fact that since black people couldn't own property in this country till a few generations ago, there's gonna be a lot more white people with inherited wealth than black. Even coming from poverty, a rural poor white man is much more likely to own his land than his black neighbor. This leads to white guilt, inferiority complexes, yadayadayada.

Personally I don't really care about it though, I earned what I am, and all my friends, white, black, brown, whatever did the same.

Freedom isn't something you're given, its something you take.


----------



## plagueship (Jun 14, 2011)

beegod: i believe what you're talking about is CLASS. white privilege gives advantages within the present capitalist society but it is not necessary for that society to exist. the more cutting-edge parts of society are already striving to get rid of racism like any other irrational obstacle to the efficient functioning of capitalism.


----------



## Dustin (Jun 14, 2011)

itt: morons and white people with guilty consciences


----------



## Dishka8643 (Jun 14, 2011)

Dustin said:


> itt: morons and white people with guilty consciences


 
That's some fine trolling there, Dustin. Well done sir.


----------



## Nelco (Jun 22, 2011)

stupid fucking thread
hate it


----------



## xbocax (Jun 22, 2011)

Nelco said:


> stupid fucking thread
> hate it


 is it cuz the dead hate the living?


----------



## UrbanNokizaru (Jun 24, 2011)

If you are white and live on planet earth you have privilege, that's it. You may have had such a shitty life that you never noticed it, but it doesn't mean that discrimination against you based on you skin color is less negative than discrimination that people of color face because of their skin color. I don't give a fuck if you were born into a prison and spent your whole life getting shit on, you still have more opportunity, more acceptance and are generally seen in a better light by society at large than if you were born a person of color. I don't see why this is sooooo difficult to understand, statistically it's true, historically it's true, economically it's true, culturally it's true. Wow your life is so hard that means you don't have white privilege, bullshit!


----------



## Nelco (Jun 27, 2011)

xbocax said:


> is it cuz the dead hate the living?



that comment has nada to do with what this thread is about..it's never wise to judge someone you've never met..far from dead..
i live in the south east..white people are the minority, by far in this area..i've seen it from some very rare angles..i'm white skin colored, while the rest of my family looks more native american (we still don't know why I look so different colored and built from the family) and people of other colors have been very accepting of me 90% of the time and been open to how they truely feel about such things as this and knowing how people feel and what actualy trigers racial anything..well i think this thread is small minded. I try to keep in mind I've lived a very different life from most and not judge other people's thoughts and conversations while they're figuring things out for themselves. I'm sorry if I made you feel offended.


----------



## Nelco (Jun 27, 2011)

deep down, i beleive no one truely cares about what color anyones skin is.
I believe it's more a defense to conceal personal hatred and wounds...keeping in mind the media, government and powers of the world fuel people to focus on nonsnense that keeps us distracted and seperated.


----------



## Keith2 (May 13, 2012)

I'm sick of hearing people complain about whites. People should stop criticizing entire races of people. I agree with criticizing the usa government for past racist policies but don't blame whites as a race for that. Blame the usa government. Criticizing entire races is racist and needs to stop. Whites deserve the same protections from racism that other races have. Racism against all races is bad and that includes racism against white people.


----------



## Mankini (May 6, 2015)

Every race's cultural contributions annoys me; each in their own special way. For instance, I hate rap and country equally. I dislike seeing white yuppies driving Subarus and Saabs: I especially dislike it when rednecks put those stupid rubber fake nut sacs on their trailer hitches. But I also dislike seeing Latinos and Blacks driving around in Cutlasses or Impalas with 5000 kilowatt subwoofers playing polka or rap. Basketball irritates me: on the other hand so does racquetball and NHRA. I think the coolest cultures in the world are probably the Mountain Hermits in Japan; Trappist monks in Belgium who make the world's best beer EVER; Sufis; Yogis in India; Kabbala Jews; etc. Pop culture is stupid regardless of who created it.


----------



## Art101 (May 7, 2015)

Really who actually gives 2 fucks.I'm white big fn deal.


----------



## Antelope Bob (May 7, 2015)

As a Native American I don't know what prejudice is. Everyone else is evil HAHAHAHAHA joking people.


----------



## Art101 (May 7, 2015)

Lol Bob...


----------



## kerouac (May 23, 2015)

good article on this topic: 
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-white-privilege-on-the-march

the very concept is inherently racist


----------



## Art101 (May 23, 2015)

I wont comment,lol but great article.


----------



## Mankini (Jul 31, 2015)

The most devilish and antidemocratic thing in the US is its education system. It is funded almost solely through property tax. Which means mostly that someplace like Bridgehampton will have nicer schools than someplace like Havre Montana or Bloomfield New Mexico. This practice and the electoral college account for 99.9% of ''white privilege'' in the US. Also, the culture values elitism and 'meritocracy'...which values manifest themselves in strange ways. Universities such as the Ivy League and 'Seven Sisters' churn out thousands of Brahmins every year. I wouldn't ever use the term ''white privilege''...because its not so much white as it is WASP.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jul 31, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> The most devilish and antidemocratic thing in the US is its education system. It is funded almost solely through property tax. Which means mostly that someplace like Bridgehampton will have nicer schools than someplace like Havre Montana or Bloomfield New Mexico. This practice and the electoral college account for 99.9% of ''white privilege'' in the US. Also, the culture values elitism and 'meritocracy'...which values manifest themselves in strange ways. Universities such as the Ivy League and 'Seven Sisters' churn out thousands of Brahmins every year. I wouldn't ever use the term ''white privilege''...because its not so much white as it is WASP.



that makes very little sense and is somewhat off topic to this thread.


----------



## Mankini (Jul 31, 2015)

What must be taken into account is not the "American Dream'' of ambition and work; but peoples' motivations for wanting material success. We must keep the ambitious and greedy from being labeled ''successful''. Successful at what?...Achievement is relative. Hitler and Stalin were poor white boys from rustic backgrounds.
On a similar vein, a POC who lives in his own ethnic enclave all his life and achieves nothing of any value to the Establishment: Is he worthless? Or how does one quantify his relative worth level?

Allow me to elucidate this. By what standards do we measure privilege and success?

Is George W. Bush worth more than a homeless, schizophrenic, HIV infected, alcoholic person of color in the Mission District? GW has a Yale and Harvard education, is rich, was a president, and comes from a long line of Patricians. But the homeless man has never murdered anyone, while GW caused the deaths of countless people, for his own glory.

Privilege is merely an aesthetic preference. Wealth, looks, and power are the quantifiers.

But if I don't esteem your celebrity status, possessions, power, titles, looks, academic and familial pedigrees, then how much privilege do you really have?


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jul 31, 2015)

it really saddens me to see how little understanding of what even white privilege _is_ in the StP community much less the shocking amount of denial. denying that this exists is like saying up is down...


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jul 31, 2015)

voodoochile76 said:


> What must be taken into account is not the "American Dream'' of ambition and work; but peoples' motivations for wanting material success. We must keep the ambitious and greedy from being labeled ''successful''. Successful at what?...Achievement is relative. Hitler and Stalin were poor white boys from rustic backgrounds.
> On a similar vein, a POC who lives in his own ethnic enclave all his life and achieves nothing of any value to the Establishment: Is he worthless? Or how does one quantify his relative worth level?



i don't think you understand what the topic of this thread is about.


----------



## milkhauler (Jul 31, 2015)




----------



## lone wolf (Aug 1, 2015)

xbocax said:


> ...the majority of people that succeed... are white...


the majority of people that succeed are Jewish.


----------



## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 1, 2015)

There's no question that the white European race has done terrible things once they came to 'the new world' ad proceeded to search and destroy, ask any Native American about that - but this whole white privilage thing is something completely new to me, as I have never even heard of it up until very recently.

Considering that in my senior year of high school in Brooklyn NY, 1983... my best friend was a black man, and that I would be seen often enough walking a black woman [back then 18 years old made you and adult] named Desiree to the subway station - something which took balls to do back then - this should give indication of what I think of such things as white privilage and these other bullshit feel bad terms.

In America, whites definately had privilage from day one up until I'd say the 1970s, then things became a little more 'just' with great emphisis on 'a little more'.
Today - anyone - and I do mean anyone - has the ability to go as far as they want, they just have to be willing to work very hard for it.

Case in point: About 12 years ago, a young black man walked right into my studio during a particulary rowdey band practice.
He walked right in like he owned the place, such was his passion for the blues.... and we actually got him to sing a tune with us.
Turns out he was visiting a friend next door that's how he found out about us - anyway - he decided from that moment on - that he was going to make music his passion - his goal.

Years later I crossed paths with him, pushing shopping carts at Home Depot.

He was proud of him menial job - because he was using that as a stepping stone to save money to get in his words "a very old pick up truck and a lawn mower" so he could start his own business which would in turn generate funds for his studio.

I am told that today he indeed has a very big studio going and is realizing his dream.
Believe me when I tell you he came from nothing - but he was willing to do whatever it took to better himself towards his goal.

My ex-girlfriend dumped me because [among other things] I refused to buy into the whole white privilage thing - and I think it's because today - I see no privilage in being white.

I have jury duty on Tuesday.
I'll see if white privilage exists in the court room and report back if there's anything worth adding.

In closing, I want to add that in my 50 years on this fucking planet - if there's one thing I know - the only way to end racism is to simply stop saying and acting like this race is more privlilaged [or downtrodden] than that race and just start thinking in terms of working together.
This does not mean we have to accept everything thrown into our face, but respect does go a long way.

Last time I checked, we are all human beings, mammals.....
That's right - human being's.
Forget all this labeling crap.
We can make this work.

"...for only love can conquer hate"
[Marvin Gaye]


----------



## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 1, 2015)

[and I appologize for all the spelling errors, as I ain't exactly all that smart and use a very primitive computer with no spell check capacity]

Anarchy Peace LOVE and Freedom...................


----------



## Mankini (Aug 1, 2015)

I was hoping you'd say "And then I found out the young Black guy was Jimi Hendrix."


----------



## Deleted member 13433 (Aug 1, 2015)

Nope... he was a regular kid, who was simply trying to survive.
I'm glad I gave him inspiration to follow through with his dream.
Funny how that works - how by chance, this kid was able to see what I was doing [in my case, a very serious hobby] with music - to where he decided to follow a similar path - working hard to see his dream come true by starting with something very menial and then working his way slowly up to where he needed to be in order to pay for his studio set up.
Probably took him a solid ten years to get there.
Took me closer to thirty.......................


----------



## Skit (Jun 2, 2016)

I would hope to have privilege in a country where my people are the majority, as should anyone. I was certainly treated differently than my Latino friends while in Central America, oh well I won't spend much time there.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jun 2, 2016)

generally the point of this discussion is that you shouldn't be treated differently because there's more or less people like you in the immediate area, no matter what color you are.


----------



## Skit (Jun 2, 2016)

Ideally, but I can't see everyone trusting each other over night. Birds of a feather flock together.


----------



## Rob Nothing (Jun 2, 2016)

yeah, things are complicated. I don't expect latinos I work with to look at me with the same affability they look to in their fellow latinos. I don't expect blacks to quit hating me just because they have more money than I do. the reality of it is that people are opportunists and we'll say whatever it takes to get ahead in life. whatever puts you ahead, my brown black and yellow comrades, whatever puts you ahead sisters, whatever puts you ahead. that's just the nature of the beast and I hold no grudge.


----------



## warlo (Jun 3, 2016)

voodoochile76 said:


> What must be taken into account is not the "American Dream'' of ambition and work; but peoples' motivations for wanting material success. We must keep the ambitious and greedy from being labeled ''successful''. Successful at what?...Achievement is relative. Hitler and Stalin were poor white boys from rustic backgrounds.
> On a similar vein, a POC who lives in his own ethnic enclave all his life and achieves nothing of any value to the Establishment: Is he worthless? Or how does one quantify his relative worth level?
> 
> Allow me to elucidate this. By what standards do we measure privilege and success?
> ...




I have been reading the whole thread (yeah, crazy, I know) and I have to say that among a few replies, this is the one that gets closer to what I think and the reason why im interested in the subject. Funny enough, people think that its off topic, when it couldnt be more in topic.

To start with, I'll do something I usually dont do. Take the race card. Im a mix of so many things that nobody can tell where the fuck I come from, born and raised in South America (that makes me a latino or a sudaka for those who try to hurt my feelings). People think im from Egypt, Morocco or whatever else northeast african country when im in south-west Europe. People think im turkish or greek when im in Germany or France, in Scandinavia they tried and failed to guess my nationality every time... so I guess I count as a minority. I even took the "check your privilege" test (just for fun) and I got one the lowest score available....

but still... 
I dont feel unprivileged AT ALL. *Sometimes "my race" works wonders for me, some times it doesnt, sometimes people react "positively" to it and that is mostly annoying, some times people react negatively and that doesnt really affect me*. So all in all, depends where I am and what kind of people I meet, but would never say that not being white generally sucks, because that is bullshit.
I wouldnt exchange my looks / race / upbringing / whatever for a so called privileged person AT ALL. Mainly, because I dont want what they have based on that. Actually, I feel VERY sorry for the so called middle-class-white-cis-gender-body-abled-etc-etc-etc-privileged-people. The reason is somewhat connected to what voodochile said above. Who defines success? *isnt it weird that in the alternative scenes where we pretty much agree on disliking the western approach to success we are talking so much about how bad is it for non-whites to have no access to white-western successful lifestyle? *

To make it a bit more clear, lets take the other side of the coin. I travel a lot, I can be pretty much everywhere and my looks and life choices have a lot to do with it(not having fancy shit with me, for example). I have access to pretty much the whole world and wont be treated in a negative manner based on my looks. But I have traveled with caucasians, and that changed the game a lot! even within Europe! suddenly we where tourists and the money-less lifestyle became a problem because *nobody would believe that my Norwegian companion had in fact less money and chances than the Latino*. And that was just EUROPE,I cant even imagine what would it be like for that same person traveling on the low trough South America, oh wait! I CAN, it would be treated as a wallet full of cash the whole way with all that brings in (being robbed and treated as a rich tourist in most places).

So how does that fall within the idea that being white makes your life easy? well, if we narrow down the definition of success / good life to a set of fucked up standards, then it might fit, but if you don't like those standards, then you see that white people are trapped within their own fucked up society and that is SAD.

To answer to OP:

*you probably will be able to go shopping at the grocery store and not be followed* 
(that's true, but it doesnt really bother me, I recognize its racism / sexism most of the time, but depending where I am that varies alot, which makes the privilege thing not a valid point except on rich neighborhoods and their shops)

*you can turn on the tv or open a newspaper and see people of your race widely represented* 
(that's a bit outdated, it is true also depending on the demographics of the place you live in, so I would say that's a very euro/us centrist point of view)

*you can be sure that what your children will be given info in school which will testify to an existence of their race*
(same as above, it changes depending where you are, which school you go to, etc)

*you can count on your skin color not making people preconceive whether your check or card will go through*
(while that can happen, i think its a very loose point to make an argument.)

*you can speak in a public place without putting your race on trial*
(true to some extent. Now available for white males as well, the more people getting into identity politics, the more your speech is invalid for having a Caucasian penis)

*you can do well in a situation without being considered an accredit to your race*
(that is true only when a racist is judging your actions)

*if a cop pulls you over you can be sure its not because of your race*
(that is absolutely true, but I think we all agree on the racist base of the police force in most places)

*you can choose blemish color or bandages that will somewhat match your skin*
(that is absurd, I have dark skin and that was never a problem, either because there is such a thing as darker bandages and stuff or because I dont give a fuck about the whole thing. Very loose point)

*you can go to any barber and they will know how to cut your hair*
(that only if you are black and have an afro style hair, might be a problem, but im pretty sure there are plenty of people capable of handing that type of hair, another loose point to make an argument here)

*you hang around in groups of 5 or more without looking suspicious*
(that being true depending if the spectator is a racist)


Now, just to make it clear, I understand that somehow the concept of "privilege" has its truth, but I believe that the whole argument (as it has come to me so far) is never taken from a neutral perspective. One of the basic attitudes of humans is to easily victimize themselves, and that is why in my opinion the whole privilege argument is so difficult to take, as non-whites will over victimize themselves and make absurd claims to whites who will victimize themselves and make absurd claims in opposition. Now, both are right and wrong at the same time.

I dont deny or accept the concept, I am in a constant critical thinking analysis of my own experiences and the ones that I meet to see how much truth there is, and to be honest, the whole thing falls apart at times as much as it makes sense some other times. Which leads me to think that (as usual in this world) there are no absolutes. And as long as people bring this as an absolute (like when people get angry because people deny it based on their own experience, or when people do not fully agree, etc)

Now, what I DO accept fully, is the existence of both RACISM and SEXISM, which are far more important and readily available as experiences for everybody to clearly see and act against. I dislike the privilege discussion because it usually distracts people from the real thing (sexism and racism).

Just to make it clear, look at the points by OP (which by the way, as loosely designed as they are, happen to be the core points of the white privilege discussion at least in US and Europe). They are mostly all points that if under the title of "Cases of racism / sexism" would be undeniable. But when you try and put them under an absolutist title of "unless you are white this is what happens to you" then you have 5 years of disagreement on a forum.

Why cant all the people discussing this shift their attention to the obvious fact that nothing can be simplified that much?


----------



## salxtina (Jun 5, 2016)

*https://www.buzzfeed.com/amandachic...only-weed-boom?utm_term=.jo0Vao4YD#.jlD1rwV25

When Colorado’s first* medical marijuana dispensaries opened in 2009, Unique Henderson was psyched. He’d been smoking weed since he was 15, and he’d even learned how to grow, from his ex-girlfriend’s father. He spent $750 on classes about how to run a cannabis business, and then he and a friend both applied to work at a Denver pot shop.

Then only his friend was hired. Henderson was more than qualified, so why didn’t he get the gig? His friend asked the managers and came back with infuriating news: Henderson was not allowed to work in the legal cannabis industry because he had been caught twice with a joint’s worth of pot as a teenager back in Oklahoma, and as a result he has two drug possession felonies on his record.

For most jobs, experience will help you get ahead. In the marijuana industry, it’s not that simple. Yes, investors and state governments are eager to hire and license people with expertise in how to cultivate, cure, trim, and process cannabis. But it can’t be someone who got caught. Which for the most part means it can’t be someone who is black.

Even though research shows people of all races are about equally likely to have broken the law by growing, smoking, or selling marijuana, black people are much more likely to have been arrested for it. Black people are much more likely to have ended up with a criminal record because of it. And every state that has legalized medical or recreational marijuana bans people with drug felonies from working at, owning, investing in, or sitting on the board of a cannabis business. After having borne the brunt of the “war on drugs,” black Americans are now largely missing out on the economic opportunities created by legalization.

*For most jobs, experience will help you get ahead. In the marijuana industry, it’s not that simple.*
“It really does piss me off,” Henderson said. His friend still works at that dispensary, and makes a lot more money than Henderson does. “And to see a lot of people come to Colorado to work in weed, that pisses me off even more. They’re coming here, living comfortable, and it’s like, I could be doing the same thing, but I can’t, _because_ of my past with marijuana.”

Nobody keeps official statistics on race and cannabis business ownership. But based on more than 150 interviews with dispensary owners, industry insiders, and salespeople who interact with a lot of pot shops, it appears that fewer than three dozen of the 3,200 to 3,600 storefront marijuana dispensaries in the United States are owned by black people — about 1%.

At this rare and decisive moment in American history, state governments are literally handing control of a multibillion-dollar industry to a chosen few, creating wealth overnight. The pot trade has long been open to anyone with some seeds and some hustle, so there are more than enough cannabis experts out there to form a truly diverse industry — if only the laws weren’t systematically preventing thousands of qualified black people from participating.

Even without a criminal record, black people looking to get involved in legal weed face major obstacles. Sarah Cross, the chief operating officer of Green Rush Consulting, estimated that it takes at least a quarter of a million dollars to start a legal marijuana business. After centuries of systemic discrimination in housing, employment, and education, black Americans are far less likely to have or be able to raise that kind of money. Small business loans are out of the question, because banks are insured by federal agencies, and the federal government still considers cannabis illegal.


Henderson was caught as a teenager with less than an eighth. Now, he is barred from participating in the marijuana industry. Jessica Sample for BuzzFeed News

Legalizing marijuana sounds revolutionary, but with every day that passes, the same class of rich white men that control all other industries are tightening their grip on this one, snatching up licenses and real estate and preparing for a windfall. First-mover advantage, they call it. That means that anyone who doesn’t make the risky leap to violate federal law and get involved now will miss out, forever. In a few years, when the land grab is over, the cannabis industry may become just another example in America’s never-ending cycle of racially motivated economic injustices.

[More at link]


----------



## salxtina (Jun 6, 2016)

Haha, "off topic," dear god lolol. "What? What could racism and the drug war possibly have to do with white supremacy?" The willful blindness is staggering.


----------



## Richard174391 (Jun 7, 2016)

im not exactly sure where this thread went theres so many messages! but im just going to share my thought on this. i believe white privilege to be very real. its extremely obvious... many people are characterized as being thieves, crooks, illegals etc for their race. if youre white youll never have someone be suspicious of your race (well at least not to the degree POC have to deal with it). whites being the majority (im speaking on the usa here) cannot experience racism. racism is systematic... whites in america have never known what its like to be treated horribly for their race by a VERY large percent of the population. now being white obviously doesnt make you immune to being unfortunate of course. but if youre in a bad position people are much more likely to help you out. white is seen as the norm and POC are sometimes outright expected to be as "white" as possible. its harder to get a job with a "non white" name or if your hair is different etc. its still hard for some people to be themselves and embrace their culture. if youre black youre a crook if youre mexican youre illegal if youre from the middle east youre a terrorist etc. im going to read more of the comments because i have not read them all yet. this is my opinion youre welcome to disagree with me


----------



## happyemil (Aug 29, 2016)

With the way people of color are generally treated these days, especially in the U.S. and especially by bastard law enforcement, I would be (even more) terrified to travel if I were non-white. I damn sure have white privilege and I am presently very concerned for my loved ones who do not have it...


----------



## jojoofu (Sep 6, 2016)

This is a interesting topic as it leads to other topics that need to be discussed in order for real change to take effect. The idea that white people are part of a special click who are above the law is a far fetched fantasy dreamed up by modern day Marxist.

White people have less behavior problems and run ins with the law because they are raised in a cultural that values things such as honesty , hard work and ingenuity. To be frank the reason why non whites are involved in more crimes and are always suspect is the fact they do commit more crimes. This is especially true when it comes to blacks and Hispanics.

The issue here is we have mass denial of the violence and crime that is coming out of these groups. Anytime we try to have an honest discussion about the high crime rates among these communities we are shouted down and called names such as racist or bigot. Nothing is going to change until people admit there is a problem with crime and violence among certain ethnic groups.

If the trend of denial continues things will only become progressively worse. Which is exactly what the Marxist want. The Marxist need a poor , uneducated and out classed community so they always have a talking point to why society is failing and a means to sell us farther down the road of global communism. Socialism has purposely kept non whites on a welfare plantation in order to have a support base and a low level street army.

On a side note you are far safer as a non white living in white community the a white living in any non white community. If you don't believe me then be as so brave to go live in the ghetto of Detroit or Chicago as a white person. You won't last a day.


----------



## bystander (Sep 8, 2016)

jojoofu said:


> This is a interesting topic as it leads to other topics that need to be discussed in order for real change to take effect. The idea that white people are part of a special click who are above the law is a far fetched fantasy dreamed up by modern day Marxist.



I wouldn't say fantasy- more of a reality. Brock Turner? Tell me how this kid got released from jail with a sexual assault charge three months early when his sentence was only six months (for RAPE)??

well California laws for over crowding are this & that and umm.... BULLSHIT

put a colored person in his shoes & you think the outcome will mirror each other? My guess is they'd be lucky they didn't *accidentally* get shot while being arrested..



jojoofu said:


> White people have less behavior problems and run ins with the law because they are raised in a cultural that values things such as honesty , hard work and ingenuity. To be frank the reason why non whites are involved in more crimes and are always suspect is the fact they do commit more crimes. This is especially true when it comes to blacks and Hispanics.



I can see some value here, although I still do not completely agree. *I do not think only white people* "are raised in a cultural that values things such as honesty , hard work and ingenuity"

I spent a summer helping my good friends mother & here employees (they were all illegal) cleaning student housing. The worst fucking job I have ever done.

& I can promise you that they (were Mexican) are some of the hardest working people I have EVER meet. They worked 12+ hours a day 6/7 days a week. They paid for each others meals (even my white ass) when we couldn't afford it- hell even bought me smokes because I was flat ass broke.

its not the culture of your ethnicity; its the culture you were raised in.

I believe that most white people (obviously not all) are given the chance to learn these basic moral fundamentals without continuous distractions such as racism, extreme poverty etc.

& believe it or not that comes down to the all mighty dollar.

How can a child learn positive behavior when the world only reflects negativity towards them and their peers?

when media portrays their ethnic group as being violent, drug dealers, or gang affiliated?

how many white children do you think get a warning and "don't do that again or you're in big trouble" compared to lets say black children?

again, so are they committing more crimes, or are we just better at getting off the hook?

do we have more of a "future" to look after, then anyone else?



jojoofu said:


> The issue here is we have mass denial of the violence and crime that is coming out of these groups. Anytime we try to have an honest discussion about the high crime rates among these communities we are shouted down and called names such as racist or bigot. Nothing is going to change until people admit there is a problem with crime and violence among certain ethnic groups.



These problems stem from poverty- not ethnicity.

Think about the gangs of the '30s & '40s; most are predominantly white. Crime rate was thru the roof. Why? the economy tanked & people did what they had to do- to survive.




jojoofu said:


> On a side note you are far safer as a non white living in white community the a white living in any non white community. If you don't believe me then be as so brave to go live in the ghetto of Detroit or Chicago as a white person. You won't last a day.



I can agree with this, although just one day is a bit of a overstatement.

When I go to Chicago with my mexican friend I am constantly being warned by strangers to watch my back.

I simply cannot place soul blame on me being white & they being colored for that- I blame me being middle class & me appearing to be an easy target.

again people do what they gotta do to survive. Now I'm not saying there isn't someone who wouldn't rob my ass for being white because skin color does matter.

but to sit here and pretend that high crime rate among these groups are higher because x,y,z reasons is absurd.

how many serial killers can you name off? & how many are colored? now how many are white? 

what about mass school shooting?

black & brown people sell drugs... so are we just the user? I know more white people with drug addictions then any other color.

My theory is: There is only one race... The Human Race


----------



## jojoofu (Sep 8, 2016)

bystander said:


> I wouldn't say fantasy- more of a reality. Brock Turner? Tell me how this kid got released from jail with a sexual assault charge three months early when his sentence was only six months (for RAPE)??
> 
> well California laws for over crowding are this & that and umm.... BULLSHIT
> 
> put a colored person in his shoes & you think the outcome will mirror each other? My guess is they'd be lucky they didn't *accidentally* get shot while being arrested..



You are being both hypocritical and exhibiting a double standard and your lack of knowledge of our corrupt court system.

R. Kelly , Kobe Bryant and Bill Cosby all got away with rape. What is the one thing they all have in common. They have money and are well connected. You can buy your way out of any crime.

People only continue to push the issues of corruption in the courts when it involves a white person. This shows you are exhibiting a blatant double standard and the atypical far left programmed thinking. 

White guy gets 3 month for rape it's white privilege. Famous black men get no jail time for rape , we just sweep that under the rug. 

Check the infowars link further below for facts on cop shootings. You are indeed far more likely to get shot by a cop if you are white even though white people have less run ins with the law.

Here is Kobe paying off his victim not to testify.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/mar/03/sports/sp-bryant3



bystander said:


> I can see some value here, although I still do not completely agree. *I do not think only white people* "are raised in a cultural that values things such as honesty , hard work and ingenuity"



I never said only white people. You put those words in my mouth. You set up a straw man then knocked it down.



bystander said:


> These problems stem from poverty- not ethnicity.



The problems you speak of are cultural. Blacks especially glorify a life of crime , drugs and violence. Go to any ultra poor white towns in west Virginia. You won't find even a fraction of the crime in there that you can find or black and latino ghettos. The link between poverty crime is very small and it is blown out of proportion as another tool to make excuse for high crime rates for blacks.

http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-liberal-media-darent-talk-about/

Even the communist rag the washington admit the crime isn't related to poverty. However they continue to go on with a plethora of excuses all while ignoring the truth right in front of them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-likely-to-go-to-prison-than-rich-black-kids/

You haven't shown me any evidence of this white privilege that I can't easily debunk. You are only doing what you are programmed to do and that is hate white people and more specifically white culture. The far left want to flood out and destroy white culture because it represents decency and wholesome values. Goodness is inimical to the progress of the morally bankrupt globalist agenda hence why white people need to be destroyed.

Feel free to show me more of this mythical white privilege. I'll be more than happy to provide links and information debunking that theory. For every white person that commits or gets away with a crime in the USA there are hundreds of non whites doing the same thing. You just choose to ignore the other criminals because it doesn't fit your narrative.


----------



## bystander (Sep 9, 2016)

jojoofu said:


> You are being both hypocritical and exhibiting a double standard and your lack of knowledge of our corrupt court system.
> 
> R. Kelly , Kobe Bryant and Bill Cosby all got away with rape. What is the one thing they all have in common. They have money and are well connected. You can buy your way out of any crime.



Haven't famous people been getting away with this for years? People get what the people want my friend. If we list off every famous person, regardless of race that has been arrested, don't most get off?

I'm not speaking the 1% here and maybe this kid is? either way I stand behind what I've said.

I try and stay out of most polictical debates- I simply don't care. I don't care because I do not truly think we have the power to persuade our government or our future.




jojoofu said:


> People only continue to push the issues of corruption in the courts when it involves a white person. This shows you are exhibiting a blatant double standard and the atypical far left programmed thinking.
> 
> White guy gets 3 month for rape it's white privilege. Famous black men get no jail time for rape , we just sweep that under the rug.



I guess I just hear more of this garbage with a white face attached. probably because theres more white people, am I right?



jojoofu said:


> I never said only white people. You put those words in my mouth. You set up a straw man then knocked it down.



either way you word it, I will not agree to this:

"_White people have less behavior problems and run ins with the law *because they are raised in a cultural that values things such as honesty , hard work and ingenuity. *To be frank the reason why non whites are involved in more crimes_"



jojoofu said:


> The problems you speak of are cultural. Blacks especially glorify a life of crime , drugs and violence. Go to any ultra poor white towns in west Virginia. You won't find even a fraction of the crime in there that you can find or black and latino ghettos. The link between poverty crime is very small and it is blown out of proportion as another tool to make excuse for high crime rates for blacks.



"_when media portrays their ethnic group as being violent, drug dealers, or gang affiliated?_"

Media has glorified particular actions in every ethnic groups & people pick up on them. The problem may not have started with the media, but it sure amplified it. Good or bad.

& how can you compare crime rates of towns & cities, with substantially different populations? sounds like more opportunities to get in trouble to me.. or let me guess you were comparing it to an ultra poor colored town in Georgia? because most ghettos I've heard of are are in larger cities where... location, population & poverty play a major part in crime rate. not just ethnicity.



jojoofu said:


> You haven't shown me any evidence of this white privilege that I can't easily debunk. You are only doing what you are programmed to do and that is hate white people and more specifically white culture. The far left want to flood out and destroy white culture because it represents decency and wholesome values. Goodness is inimical to the progress of the morally bankrupt globalist agenda hence why white people need to be destroyed.



Solid evidence was me walking into a small town diner in Wisconsin with my Columbia friends family- of five, and we stopped the whole damn place... not a sound... & all I hear is (who's the spicks) ...

Im not programmed to hate whites, I just got friends who aren't white.

& who aren't famous, or wealthy

& they fall right into this.




jojoofu said:


> Feel free to show me more of this mythical white privilege. I'll be more than happy to provide links and information debunking that theory. For every white person that commits or gets away with a crime in the USA there are hundreds of non whites doing the same thing. You just choose to ignore the other criminals because it doesn't fit your narrative.


The media definitely loves the added spin off- of another person of colored shot by the police. But what major hurdles has us whites had to endure within the last hundred year in the USA?

getting to outer space?

stealing someone else's oil?

war?

being accused of being racist?

what major hurdles have people of color endured in the USA within the last hundred years?

*equal rights as human beings*

white problems..

the list could go on..
&
This shit could go on and on.

and yes, there is always exceptions to the rules.

fer real. I tap out & *you know you're right.*

and I think debates on the internet are pointless. I need the face - to face combat to fully vocalize my opinion without over analyzing & missing my point. so yes, this argument was pointless.

& maybe I believe now that its white peoples turn to be portrayed as the the bad 'guy' & we'll cry wolf- because we didn't do nothing wrong personally 

so I leave you this:


----------



## Inhibition (Sep 26, 2016)

Wow, quite the thread. I think it's a case of all else being equal being white is an advantage where I live (USA). 

However, all else is rarely equal. Say someone is:

Born into a family of wealth and owns property (capitalism) 
Is free from disease and illness
Has access to socially valued education
Had an involved upbringing with socially normative parents
Psychologically closer to socially desired norms (free from mental illness)
Physiologically closer to social norms (able bodied and physically attractive)
Is behaviorally willing to conform to social norms (gender and age appropriate)
Is willing to share cultural values (capitalism, etc)

If that is a person of color, they would likely be treated better than someone: 

Born into a family with no money or property 
Is diseased or ill
Doesn't have access to socially valued education 
Did not have an involved upbringing with abusive, absentee, or deviant parents 
Is psychologically deviant from desired norms (mental illness)
Physiologically deviates from social desirability (disability or not conventionally attractive)
Is unwilling to conform to social norms (gender and age appropriate)
Is unwilling to share cultural values (capitalism, etc)

I think the latter would be likely receive inferior treatment regardless of the color of their skin. But again if the latter was also not white, all else being equal, the treatment would likely be worse statistically speaking.

Now the question for me is more what to do about it. Color itself seems so arbitrary, what the color represents to people is where the meaning is. I don't really know how to address the issue without addressing class. I do know a lot of attitudes in my country have been formed on how well a person of color benefits white capitalists. Asians are seen as a model minority. Blacks were accused of laziness even as chattel slaves. Discussion of welfare queens was common. 

I think getting rid of capitalism with public/personal property would take a really large bite out the issues on that list, but race is the most unpredictable. Wealth is less important if people don't have to buy private property to 'live free on it.' If everyone could build their own shelter, the need to be obedient for wage slavery would decrease. This makes people who have disabilities, mental illness, deviant behaviors, and unique values systems less inefficient in society and more equal. It makes child rearing and the educational resources to required to prepare for navigating capitalism less relevant by making familial and educational differences more equal as well. 

So the question I ponder, is if the current exploitation were to end, would this have a leveling effect and result in better treatment of people of color? If people of color were more equal in every other way: wealth, health, access to resources, etc, would the increase of this status in itself bolster how they are treated? If not, what other solutions are there? 

Can the issue really even be addressed without addressing the class context? Can we escape model minorities and stereotypes when so much lies within a framework of an exploitative system that defines nearly everyone?


----------



## Hillbilly Castro (Sep 26, 2016)

jojoofu said:


> modern day Marxist.



ever actually read marx?


----------



## Deleted member 14481 (Oct 7, 2016)

Leave it to a white men to say they don't have privilege. That's seriously 90% of this thread. But, the second you don't get something because you're a poor traveler you want to shout "FUCK CLASSISM". You're all shitheaded hypocrites.

I'm an under-employed, under-educated, black, trans, bi, non-Christian, female person from the southeast and I've had the wonderful opportunity of experiencing the same racism all over the lovely US of A. Privilege does exist. You think you don't have privilege because you get treated like shit for being poor, but when you put down the bottle and pipe and clean yourself up no one looks twice when you walk into any place. Yes, there are other reasons to be discriminated against, but you're not being discriminated against for being a fucking WHITE MAN. There's no place you aren't allowed to be regardless of any situation - battered women's shelters, LGBTQ safe spaces, any and all conversations about race though you NEVER know what you're talking about, and more of a long list of places where no one needs or wants white men present.

Don't give me that "white people get shoot and harassed by the police, too" bullshit. For every white man that gets away with rape you get a privilege ticket, where a black man gets a life sentence for stealing a pair of shoes. A few years ago there was a WHITE FEMALE judge putting WHITE MEN that were accused of sexual assault into battled women's shelters as their community service. When Catholic Priests are discovered to be sexually assaulting children they are removed from position. They are put in poor neighborhoods with PEOPLE OF COLOR so they can molest colored kids.

There's the "I'm ____ so I didn't get white privilege growing up." Well, you're getting it now. Italians, Irish, and many those other groups have a level of prigilieve, and if you look like the "white" the powers that be want you to look like you have white privilege. ESPECIALLY you Irish and Scottish people. "But, they make jokes and comments about me." Did those jokes affect your housing opportunities, hireability, or overall level of well-being? Did they still say things to you that you know they wouldn't have said with "other company" persent? That's still privilege. The worst I've heard you get is comments about how white you are, and drinking problems, but that didn't stop you from getting that job or loan, did it? Did it stop you from getting that ride while you were hitching to your next stop? "But, there are people that won't help me because I'm white/ a man." Yeah, there are people that know you have privileges already, and don't want to give you any more. They would rather help under-privileged people. And, it's not the same the other way around. For other person that's not willing to help you for being a white men there's 100s if not 1000s of people that will, with no questions asked. The same can't be said for people of color on the scale of racism that we have in this country.

Most of the cops KILLING BLACK PEOPLE are white. Most of the people killing people on international levels are American white men. These same companies that are spreading poverty, ruining the environment, and funding wars ARE WHITE MEN. When you deny privilege YOU'RE A PART OF THE PROBLEM.

The way white people and white allies have written and rewritten history and left out important details for the white man's favor, from American Presidency to the Stonewall Riot. You control our school system, our government, the world economy, and you even put yourself in control of other people's bodies! This system was built FOR white men BY white men from the blood, sweat, tears and corpses of black, brown, red, and yellow people all over the world!

You white boys make me fucking sick and so do your brainwashed bimbos. I'm going to put my lifetime into making sure your emperor falls. I may not live to see it happen, but I'm going to work towards to so it can keep going strong into future generations! I don't expect anything to come from any of you human meatbag trash heaps on this site, or in this whole generation, but the hope brings hope!


----------



## fuck capitalist scum (Oct 7, 2016)

Who is "our" emperor? If you mean the ruling class I'm all for it 

class > race

But I agree, there's no worst specimen than the white liberal.






At least fascists are honest with how bad they are, liberals pretend to be on your side but when it matters they side with the status quo.


----------



## Kal (Oct 7, 2016)

I hitchhike and sometimes have to deal with the police so far they have always treated me with respect but I wonder what if I were black would I have to worry about being beaten or worse shot. Now there's something to think about.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Oct 7, 2016)

Inuyoujo said:


> Leave it to a white men to say they don't have privilege. That's seriously 90% of this thread. But, the second you don't get something because you're a poor traveler you want to shout "FUCK CLASSISM". You're all shitheaded hypocrites.
> 
> I'm an under-employed, under-educated, black, trans, bi, non-Christian, female person from the southeast and I've had the wonderful opportunity of experiencing the same racism all over the lovely US of A. Privilege does exist. You think you don't have privilege because you get treated like shit for being poor, but when you put down the bottle and pipe and clean yourself up no one looks twice when you walk into any place. Yes, there are other reasons to be discriminated against, but you're not being discriminated against for being a fucking WHITE MAN. There's no place you aren't allowed to be regardless of any situation - battered women's shelters, LGBTQ safe spaces, any and all conversations about race though you NEVER know what you're talking about, and more of a long list of places where no one needs or wants white men present.
> 
> ...



you are correct that 90% of this thread is people denying white privilege. and yes, that's fucked, and fucking stupid, because it's like denying the sun is in the sky. its a huge festering sore on the traveler community and i'm embarrassed that it even exists.

while i can't 100% know your anger (i'm a white cis male), i _can _empathize with it. and when you're so angry i understand that it's really easy to categorize everyone with blanket statements, but i would like to remind you that blanket statements often offend people that are trying to be your ally.


----------



## sasquatch (Oct 7, 2016)

Still waiting for male privilege thread. White privelege exists in most aspects that matter and in countless ways most people take for granted or don't even recognize. There is so much denial and pushback over this topic and I think much of it is for good reason. White men understand the hateful bitter attitude many people have towards them and can often be pushed to the extremes of fully opposing these social justice movements or becoming a self hating black apologist.

Statistically there just aren't the facts to support some kind of full scale black genocide as some are suggesting here. Look for yourself:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

Twice as many whites are killed by cops. Yet based on ratios of black/white nonviolent and violent crimes one would predict 26% more blacks shot by cops. Obviously these statistics will vary depending on local demographics, but I still do not see this argument of widespread indiscriminately shooting or beating blacks. The facts do not support it. The argument of laws and enforcement tactics and poverty and the legal system churning out criminals is there but that isn't a debate most simple minded people want to take up.

I've had 2 teenage kids pull a gun and rob me. When I told people about several separate folks about this they didn't seem bothered or surprised at all. I've had a group of guys circle me and grab for my pockets right around the corner up the hill from the shelter in Austin. Had a guy try to carjack me for some pills they thought I had when I was disabled. All were black men and in more than one instance I was told directly I was being targeted because I was white or in wrong area. This kind of crime doesn't widely happen in white neighborhoods or in most suburbs, fact. And that is one reason poor black communities are targeted.

Sure people can argue these crimes are a result of poverty or an unjust criminal system but as I said people rarely seem to want that discussion. Oh no! cause it doesn't make them feel good and it's not stupid easy like hating white people, and lamenting "white cis male privelege", and assuming cops are out there hunting down black people. It's so juvenile.

This topic requires intelligent discussion but many people are too dense, ignorant, misguided, or caught up in their own anger to look at facts and make rational conclusions. And that's another reason people want to dial this BLM dialogue back down, ignore or deny things. Because the irrational anger it causes in many instances is likely to only make race relations worse. Anger and action and discussion is only useful when it is purposefully and rightly directed otherwise it's just a self righteous, ignorant tantrum.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Oct 7, 2016)

sasquatch said:


> Yet based on ratios of black/white nonviolent and violent crimes one would predict 26% more blacks shot by cops. Obviously these statistics will vary depending on local demographics, but I still do not see this argument of widespread indiscriminately shooting or beating blacks. The facts do not support it.



if you look closely your own facts refute your own statement. in your scenario 26% more blacks are shot by cops because black people live in more heavily patrolled areas where crime is more likely to occur, so that statistic does in fact support widespread shootings of black people.



Inuyoujo said:


> You're all shitheaded hypocrites.



just a reminder that you need to cool it on the accusations, it's against the forum rules. you're perfectly capable to conveying your point without name calling.


----------



## Mankini (Oct 7, 2016)

sasquatch said:


> Still waiting for male privilege thread. White privelege exists in most aspects that matter and in countless ways most people take for granted or don't even recognize. There is so much denial and pushback over this topic and I think much of it is for good reason. White men understand the hateful bitter attitude many people have towards them and can often be pushed to the extremes of fully opposing these social justice movements or becoming a self hating black apologist.
> 
> Statistically there just aren't the facts to support some kind of full scale black genocide as some are suggesting here. Look for yourself:
> http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
> ...



race relations -need- to get worse before they can get better. And they are\will. it doesnt matter if you, I, and everyone -we- know is enlightened about race. The fact is millions of Americans are perfectly happy to allow indecency to continue because it's no business of theirs. 

Those in power must be forcefully relieved of power. They will never willingly surrender it.


----------



## sasquatch (Oct 7, 2016)

There is widespread shooting of black people, but not more relative to whites based on crime statistics. I misquoted the 26% more, something I didn't intend to do here are the statistics direct from the article with the misquote underlined:

"1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by _The Washington Post_, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to Mac Donald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as Mac Donald writes in _The Wall Street Journal_, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods.""

One of my points is that relative to crime statistics black people are not being shot more than whites.

People will quote things like this:

*"African Americans*, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally *shot* and killed by the *police* despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population"

BUT it doesn't take into account crime statistics. it's being loose with the facts. Consider this again:

"Blacks commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population."

So if again if you take into consideration crime statistics there is a much different picture.

That was only one small part of a larger statement I was making though. It is possibly ignoring larger issues or root cause.


----------



## Mankini (Oct 7, 2016)

sasquatch said:


> There is widespread shooting of black people, but not more relative to whites based on crime statistics. I misquoted the 26% more, something I didn't intend to do here are the statistics direct from the article:
> 
> "1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by _The Washington Post_, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to Mac Donald in a speech at Hillsdale College.
> 
> ...



This is all just sad, sad, sad. That we should have to discuss this bullshit at all reminds me of how silly people are.
Sasquatch read Guns Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond.
It hasnt always been white people, though. This is not a white/black conundrum: its a human one.

Europeans invaded and enslaved much of the planet.

But.....

The Mongols invaded much of the world. So did the Assyrians, Romans, Lakotas, Aztecs, Mayas, Byzantines, Greeks, Persians, Moors, and Polynesians.



When empire occurs, people get displaced and stratified. People get enslaved and treated like shit.

Race is a stupid issue- it shouldnt be an issue.

Why are there high crime and low crime parts of the US?

Why are there poverty areas?

Wm Blake said some are born for sweet delight...
and some are born for the endless night.

heheh.

What do you think? Both Whites and Blacks worship Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln wanted to ship all slaves to Liberia. He, if you read his speeches and letters, felt rather indisposed towards Blacks.

Most people feel no moral requisite towards other people whatsoever. However, soon all of us are going to be under the gun and skin color will be the least of your worries.

"First, they came for the trade unionists. And i wasnt a trade unionist, so i didnt say anything..."


----------



## sasquatch (Oct 7, 2016)

Haven't read the book but I watched the series that features Jared Diamond years ago and thought it was really good. That's a great point to make too if whites never had access to agriculture, and the resources to make steel and domesticate animals and roles were reversed people would instead be moaning about asain privelege etc.

A caste system isn't unlike racism. People are born into a class of workers, merchants nobles, untouchables etc and stuck there for their entire lives regardless of merit. And skin color has nothing to do with it. Yet people still find a way to enforce social stratification where differences in race and culture don't even exist.

People in power will always find a way to take advantage and beat down the powerless and then find some way to justify it. Whatever system is built around that people will reflect it. Racism is only one of many symptoms of a larger system of oppression and unequal share of resources.

Guns germs & steel:


----------



## Mankini (Oct 7, 2016)

Yes, caste is what its all about. There are lots of gypsies (roma) in europe who definitely feel put upon. Even though many Europeans flick shit at us for our race problems. Say Gypsy or Pikey in Paris or London and watch your enlightened friends smirk for a second and then return to being sanctimonious.

We can discuss this all we like but racism lies in the human heart and it is the human heart that must purge itself. South Africa is a perfect example of what, essentially, we are dealing with. Except there it was simply overt and unapologized...

Cruelty has a Human Heart
And Jealousy a Human Face
Terror the Human Form Divine
And Secrecy, the Human Dress
The Human Dress, is forged Iron
The Human Form, a fiery Forge.
The Human Face, a Furnace seal'd
The Human Heart, its hungry Gorge.


----------

