# Anarchist self-defense groups?



## scatwomb (Mar 30, 2012)

So, I hope I don't get shit because of my ignorance, but, here goes...

Are there ay anarchist self-defense groups in the US? I mean, we are in a world where the police are arresting us because we want a more equal society and we see the state as an obstacle towards equality. And, they are using preemptive and facsist attacks on radical groups to protect a failing state (see strategic incapacitation: (1) the use of surveillance and information sharing as a way to assess and monitor risks (to the state), (2) the use of pre-emptive arrests and less-lethal weapons to selectively disrupt or incapacitate protesters that engage in disruptive protest tactics or _might_ do so, and (3) the extensive control of space in order to isolate and contain disruptive protesters actual or _potential)._

So, again, are there groups in the US (like the Black Panthers in the late 60's) who are attempting to protect themselves through extralegal means?

I am more curious than anything...


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## finn (Mar 30, 2012)

If there are US groups, they are staying quiet, and probably for good reason, since the FBI are not too keen on any kind of militia which isn't governed by the authorities. But note that in the US, when the government doesn't like you, they use government people to get you, not third parties like in other countries. Those third parties are either state sponsored or encouraged, but not under direct government control, such as fascist groups whose crimes are ignored by the police. The KKK used to be an example of this, but nowadays you have to look to other countries, like say, Russia with their nationalist thugs. Third parties allow more people to be oppressed with limited resources, but with the risk that they cause a civil war or 'domestic instability.' One reason for this is that self-defense groups occur under those conditions- the third parties are not easily held accountable, they cannot report to the police, they can be outgunned or overpowered more easily than the police, they also have to try to keep their violence to a reasonable level to avoid media scrutiny, and they can't arrest you.


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## scatwomb (Mar 30, 2012)

Yeah, that's totally true. 

I guess there are some "border control" groups along the US-Mexico border, but, they aren't really attacking anarchists, they're threatening to attack undocumented migrants, which is pretty fucked up. 

I mean, that whole Trayvon Martin thing is kinda relevant here - the guy who killed him was part of a self-appointed "neighborhood watch" program. 

I guess I just see "preemptive arrests" based on conspiracy charges against anarchists (and even anti-war/liberal groups) will become more common, and, that's frightening to me.


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## finn (Mar 30, 2012)

I don't think the anarchists really present much of a threat to the government, given how unarmed they are as a whole. How many anarchists do you know have even shot a gun, less owning one? Seeing how many live in places where it's almost impossible to have firearms, not many. I don't think the Trayvon thing is relevant either, there's enough wiggle room for reasonable doubt, and the shooter worked alone. As for those border groups, the government do not see them as friends, in fact they probably feel threatened by them as much or more than anarchists.

My point is that the US as it is going, is headed more like a Soviet type police state than a Russian type police state. (Granted if someone like Santorum gets elected, this may not hold true) Police and military funding keep going up in relative terms. The weakness of the soviet style is that it is very costly to both society and the economy, since it requires so many people and resources to both control the people and project military power, and that will allow other countries to get ahead of the US economically, but it does tend to be more stable over a longer period of time when it inevitably collapses.

Just learn to be more independent and not have to rely on mainstream society so much, and then you stop feeding the machine.


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## scatwomb (Mar 30, 2012)

Even though I agree with you that anarchists aren't a very real threat to the state, I think the government thinks that anarchists are a very real threat - if you read some Freedom of Information docs that have come out related to the Occupy movement, you'll see that the government/police view the anarchists as violent and aggressive. And, how do you think police will react to anarchists if they perceive them as violent?

It will be interesting to see how the state deals with the protests and occupations that will occur over the Spring and Summer. As you can see in NYC over the past few weeks, the police are being much less tolerant than last Fall. 

And, I think you're wrong about the border patrol groups - I think there are some politicians in AZ who see them as patriotic Americans protecting our country (barf). Something that, they would argue, the Democratic president isn't doing. Politicians in the north often thought that the KKK was an existential threat to the Union considering they were a racist insurgent group and a very real reactionary social movement in the south. So, I think when you think of politicians locally, rather than lumping every civil servant together as "government", it becomes more nuanced. 

And, groups like the Minute Men aren't threatening towards anarchists directly, but, if they are planning on brutally attacking unarmed and undocumented migrants, they are a threat to humanity. And, anarchists should get mad about that - which they are.

And, you may be right about the Trayvon thing, but, that's not how people in this country are interpreting or reacting to it. And, in reality, all that matters is the public's reaction.

Plus, shit, I live in Idaho, there are many "anarchists" out here who are very proficient in firearms. 

Neither of us mentioned this, but, blacks in the 60's formed self-defense groups because they felt that their lives were threatened by police and other racists. Anarchists, generally speaking, don't have to deal with systemic racism and violence - they are privileged to not be so overtly oppressed. 

Now I feel like a dick because it definitely seems like I think that anarchists and blacks have experienced the same amount of oppression, and thus, anarchists should form self-defense groups. I want to clarify that I DONT THINK THAT WHATSOEVER. 

I do, however, think that anarchists need to protect themselves somehow. And, solidarity alone won't do shit in the face of the state.


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## soapybum (Apr 2, 2012)

ARA (Anti Racist Action) might be kind of what you're looking for, depends on the specific chapter or group for how into uhh 'self-defense' they are.


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## zephyr23 (Apr 2, 2012)

i would also say the ruckus society does some awesome training. i hope that helps


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## Vonuist (Apr 3, 2012)

PATS used to run self-defense classes, but I haven't been in the US since the 1990s, so I don't even know if PATS is still going.


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## Eager (Apr 13, 2012)

scatwomb said:


> *And, groups like the Minute Men aren't threatening towards anarchists directly*, but, if they are planning on brutally attacking unarmed and undocumented migrants, they are a threat to humanity. And, anarchists should get mad about that - which they are.



I'd actually strongly disagree with that statement.

Anarchists are not homogenous. While Minute Men may not be directly threatening to white, documented anarchists; they pose far more than an abstract/ideological threat to anarchists of color, especially those who are undocumented.


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## Eager (Apr 13, 2012)

And to address your original post in the most general/speculative/least incriminating way possible; there are numerous anarchist self-defense groups, depending on your definition of "self-defense" and "group".

The ELF and ALF and Earth First and Root Force; are ecological self-defense "groups" in a sense that engage in extra-legal activities.

The now-defunct Bash Back, was a self-defense group (or network) for trans and queer people (dis)organized along anarchist lines and engaged in extra-legal activities.

ARA is a self-defense group that defends against the formation of organized racist groups in the U.S. using extra-legal methods.

The IWW and other worker-oriented anarchist projects like the Lucy Parsons Worker Center are worker self-defense groups that engage in both legal and extra-legal.

Groups like Unconventional Action and others that were formed during the last DNC/RNC coordinated autonomous groups to shut down the conventions, many who engage in extra-legal activities.

Anarchists in various Occupy movements across the states; engaged in extra-legal activities from shutting down banks to reclaiming abandoned spaces to fighting vicious cops in the streets.

But all of these "groups" (with the exception of the IWW) are really unlike the Black Panthers; which ultimately failed because it was too cohesive and easy for the state to target. These groups exist more as networks and loose associations and some semblance of an "organization" than anything.

In the aftermath of the Green Scare and in the wake of DNC/RNC "autonomous" organizing most anarchist "self-defense" these days happens anonymously and autonomously; and is least attributable to a "group" than a tendency.


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## Thoreau (Apr 13, 2012)

Like said, autonumous and anonymous, always, in all aspects, speaking of there is a cool thing I use sometimes, alternative internet domains and diferent kinds of routing and stuff like that, it is really the place for anarchists, lots of stuff there, thats where i found this site.

Search for tor browser and if you want i can send you the wiki of that network with all the major important sites

The best way to defend yourself from the system is to be independent from it, also, be like the Spy







EDIT: http://punknomad.com/community/thre...ction-of-guides-and-e-books.11512/#post-91919 
good resource


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## ped (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm not sure you understand how far it has gone and been so for a very long time. Brute force and democracy has long since been irrelevent. The war, the real grasp of the state is not on the body, it's on the mind. And we not only invented it, we perfected it. The Soviets and the Germans were learning it from us. Literally, there are interviews with Goebbels where he states in no uncertain terms his primary tactics come directly from US corporate marketing techniques. The state has been inventing American culture in its entirety since WWII. The 1950's and 60's were quite remarkabe sociological expression of what the state department, corporate public relations, and the CIA were experimenting with in the fields of mass psychology. Frozen aggression, sexual repression from social morals, etc. and how it affects the behaviour of people. The post war societies were not organic, it's pretty obvious when you study it.

The only way I can see to help hasten the fall is stop liberalism. The watered down socialism of the New Deal was nothing more than a means to pascify revolution while retaining economic heirarchy. Just the same as the post revolution fight and the Bill of Rights was a means to pasicfy the colonists from slaughtering the elite Federalists land holders. It also served to cap and restrain the boom and bust gyroscopic sine wave that caused the '29 crash.

End the quasi-socialism and let the free market do what it does naturally. Which is totally collapse. That is the only way for real change. Direct influence is utterly futile at this point. Subversion is the only way. Vote Republican and give it the noose it needs to hang itself.


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