# do you vote?



## Pheonix

if yes, what do you look for in a candidate
if no, why not. 
are you one of those people that bitch about the government but don't do anything to fix it.


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## Gudj

I think alot of us complain and know it can't be fixed.

I vote on local issues if I have a house at ballot time.
I don't ever vote to elect people though.
I don't have a problem with voting for town level positions, however no-one ever seems to be worth voting for, and they all seem to be worth voting againt.


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## cranberrydavid

I vote in every election. If it's local I vote what I believe. For others I cast a "contrary vote". 

For example if I think a Republican's going to win I might vote Socialist or Green. If I think a Democrat's going to win I might vote Libertarian or something completely off the wall. If you read the indy party's statements, there's always somebody you can support. Even if everybody knows the indy's aren't going to win, it makes the political machines nervous that not everybody votes 2-party, and I kinda like that.....


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## Pheonix

cranberrydavid said:


> I vote in every election. If it's local I vote what I believe. For others I cast a "contrary vote".
> 
> For example if I think a Republican's going to win I might vote Socialist or Green. If I think a Democrat's going to win I might vote Libertarian or something completely off the wall. If you read the indy party's statements, there's always somebody you can support. Even if everybody knows the indy's aren't going to win, it makes the political machines nervous that not everybody votes 2-party, and I kinda like that.....


 
I agree I'm against both mainstream parties the democrats do have some good points but lack the balls needed to get the job done and the republican have big balls but little brains that make no sense at all


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## Gudj

cranberrydavid said:


> Even if everybody knows the indy's aren't going to win, it makes the political machines nervous that not everybody votes 2-party, and I kinda like that.....


 
What are you talking about? Who get's nervous that a tiny percent of people (much much smaller than the amount of people who don't vote at all) vote for some third party?


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## cranberrydavid

Campaign managers and political strategists, to name a few. They're watching every statistic and demographic with a microscope to try to predict trends so they can spin their messages. I know people in the game. 

If people believe there are only two choices, the strategists can calculate with amazing accuracy how many votes they will gain or lose by moving their platform to the left or right on any given issue. For the purposes of message, they tend to dismiss nonvoters as apathetic. They mostly lump them by demographic as Red or Blue and ignore them except for "get out the vote" campaigns where they figure they can and sway them by a few catch-phrases. 

But the independent parties are a threat because they represent a segment of the electorate who reject what the 2 parties are selling. They can, and occasionally do, split the Red Vote or the Blue Vote. There are Democrats who are still pissed at Nader and the Greens for splitting the Blue vote in Bush's favor, and the Republicans now are worried about a Tea Party candidate doing the same thing to them. Here in Washington State the Democrats and Republicans have spent 10s of millions of $$$ working together (!!!) to challenge the open primary election and its alternatives to keep the "independent variable" out of the equation.

My opinion FWIW.


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## Pheonix

cranberrydavid said:


> Here in Washington State the Democrats and Republicans have spent 10s of millions of $$$ working together (!!!) to challenge the open primary election and its alternatives to keep the "independent variable" out of the equation.
> 
> My opinion FWIW.


 
they did that here in oklahoma too with only obama and mccain on the ticket and no option for a write in vote.


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## cranberrydavid

Gudj said:


> no-one ever seems to be worth voting for, and they all seem to be worth voting againt.


 
I think we're on the same page here. By not voting you're not voting "for", and by voting indy I'm voting "against".


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## cranberrydavid

pheonix said:


> they did that here in oklahoma too with only obama and mccain on the ticket and no option for a write in vote.


 
Sounds right. I hear the national parties are trying to encourage this in every state.


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## Pheonix

cranberrydavid said:


> Sounds right. I hear the national parties are trying to encourage this in every state.


 
sounds like the best way to go is join a party to get elected then change to indy when your already in office. I know some politician have changed to indy when the were in office.


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## stanktank

I dunno how accurate this is or if it changes by locality, but I've got a couple friends who are real into the whole political machine thing, but they've said that historically voting third party is effectively a vote for the republicans. I don't know why they say this or anything (could be a sentiment from the democrats blaming the green voters for handin bush the election, as said earlier). Just wondering if anyone esle had heard this, or if they have evidence otherwise. Personally, I'll vote for local issues if I know what they're about, but not in presidential elections. The way I see it, dems and reps are all lying bastards. Maybe all politicians for that matter.


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## cranberrydavid

stanktank said:


> I dunno how accurate this is or if it changes by locality, but I've got a couple friends who are real into the whole political machine thing, but they've said that historically voting third party is effectively a vote for the republicans.



I bet your friends are democrats!

In Idaho they'll tell you that a vote for the Libertarians is a vote for the Democrats. 

The party that's in power always assumes that anybody who took the trouble to vote indy would have voted for their party otherwise.


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## Pheonix

silly me, I'd think a vote for the libertarians is a vote for the libertarians, but politicians do crazy stuff I heard that during the primaries in ohio the republicans told their people to change parties and vote for hillary cause mccain already won the primary by then and they felt obama was more of a threat then hillary was.


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## cranberrydavid

Yeah it's pretty crazy. More like pro sports than a government. 

But hey, if your interested in this shit you really ought to join whichever party you want to spy on and go to some meetings. I don't know if your state does caucuses, but they're actually pretty cool and you can learn a lot about how the Machine works and what it's doing for and against you.


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## stanktank

cranberrydavid said:


> I bet your friends are democrats!
> 
> In Idaho they'll tell you that a vote for the Libertarians is a vote for the Democrats.
> 
> The party that's in power always assumes that anybody who took the trouble to vote indy would have voted for their party otherwise.



haha yes they are democrats! Very much so. Is Idaho a very republican state? I only know them for their potatoes...but that's okay I love potatoes. I'm from Ohio and it is a pretty bizarre place poltically. And to the comparison between politics and pro sports, my cousin in really into politics for that very reason. I'm not into either. Maybe if I'd like one, I could get into the other. Hahaha. But in reality it's pretty twisted that you can even make that logical connection.


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## Pheonix

I'm living out in the country with no transportation to get to any meetings but maybe I can get them to send my some literature. but I've been told that if you join a party that your vote automatically goes to that party regardless of who you vote for. I don't think that's true but it wouldn't surprise me either.


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## Jive

you all pretty muched summed up how i feel. local voting is great, going to meetings and actually doing something is good. but voting for a president, not so much. 

its like being in an abusive relationship for 500 some years. yeah at first he was scrawny and small. but now he's beefed the fuck up. and every 4 years its like "he wont hurt me this time. he's gonna change"


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## BUMJUG

aye....local voting that has direct effect on your vincinity? why not??? but i still stand by "if voting could change anything id be illegal".....in regards to "activism" or solving problems...


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## cranberrydavid

stanktank said:


> Is Idaho a very republican state? I only know them for their potatoes...but that's okay I love potatoes.



I think they usually vote maybe 20% democrat and most of those live in Boise and Pocatello. Back when Kerry was running for pres, Carol King held a rally for him in Canyon County. In Seattle she would have filled a stadium. In Idaho she couldn't draw 20 people. Would probably have been the same for a Bush rally here in Demo country.

But whatever. It's all a game. An old Wobbly once told me, "The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is, the Republicans are the pro-life party of Big Business, and the Democrats are the pro-choice party of Big Business."


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## little_owl

I don't vote for people. I don't believe in the U.S.'s faux-representative democracy setup.


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## Dmac

vote, it is our right to have our say in out leadership. if you don't vote i don't wan't to hear you bitchin' about how our leaders are doing or new laws and the like. if you dont think enough of yourself and your view of things to vote on them, don't come bitchin' to me.


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## little_owl

^ That is such a silly view to have. So I should vote even if the people do not represent my views at all? Yes it's really neat how a small number of people in this country have the money/charisma/overbloated corrupt major parties supporting them and enabling them to reach such status/positions of power and I should still support and reinforce their power? I seriously doubt that. And it is possible to only support things that you agree with and to not vote for people that you do not agree with. 

And the idea that you are not allowed to complain about this form of government or politicians unless you voted for only the one person or the other which is how it usually is, is ridiculous. Never mind that these people/form of government that I do not support have been pushed on us only because of the power they have attained and that everyone should still be expected to just go along with it and continue to reinforce their power. I'd rather not. 

And to distort someone's views just because you don't agree with them as though they just don't think much of themselves or their vote is very narrow-minded. And not supporting people that you do not agree with is a form of voting in that you have no interest in supporting them.


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## FinnFiasco

I agree with Little Owl, voting in anything other than local matters ( and by matters I mean things like laws and ordinances, not representatives.) is a waste of time, and I'd rather spend that time and energy working on issues in my own community than go and voice my irrelevant opinion on which person/image i'd prefer to be dictating my life to me.


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## anne

I never thought I'd say this, but I don't plan to vote ever again. On my 18th birthday, the first thing I did was register because I thought it mattered. I can't even begin to tell you guys how disappointed I am now that I understand how all of this works.


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## Mouse

I just had to reg to vote in a new area cuz i moved yet again. don't really know the politics of this place yet but I hope to find out when voting will be taking place and for what.. gotta find out how to find that out lol


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## Critical Rupture

In some countries, like mine, it's illegal _not_ to vote.


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## Gudj

Critical Rupture said:


> In some countries, like mine, it's illegal _not_ to vote.


 
Hey you should try voting to change that.


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## Mouse

anyone know the best way to find out the political happenings in your area?


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## cranberrydavid

Mouse said:


> anyone know the best way to find out the political happenings in your area?


 
A good place to start is walk in to the library and tell the librarian you're looking for an independent weekly newspaper that watchdogs the local issues. Read some back issues, especially the letters to the editor, and you'll start to get a basic idea of what's going down and who's trying to change things.


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## rezmutts

I would have to agree on local and communty level. not on a state or federal level. It has to be truly democratic.


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## little_owl

_anyone know the best way to find out the political happenings in your area?_

In my area it's a little difficult to find out about things. There are a couple very conservative newspapers who are definitely shitty gate keepers when it comes to information and a very narrow view of opinions expressed but I live in a small town kind of area. But even with this area, it's easy to find out about stuff with organizations, even if they are national organizations who are dealing with environmental issues, and things related to this area like mountaintop removal. Also, if you can find any bloggers in your area. Maybe the I.W.W. branch in your area if there is one to know about stuff going on with workers rights and unionizing. Or even shitty political parties in which you are not interested in getting involved with like the Green Party but they bring up issues perhaps that are going on in your area. If you live in a big city it's so much easier to find out about things though.


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## MoetThePoet

"are you one of those people that bitch about the government but don't do anything to fix it."

I guess you're one of those people that when they get sick they don't try getting rid of the disease, but just make it bearable to live with?

The reason why I "bitch" about the government is because the government threatens, kidnaps, tortures and kills people. The reason why I don't vote is because I know voting is just an excuse that some people have for not doing anything else during the 4 years a candidate pretends to run a country. Because voting is compromising with the people who rule you. The reason I don't vote is because I have better things to do than going around reading campaign programs, wasting my time watching corporate/state news, because my time is better spent organizing with my community, writing articles, going to meetings and doing actual proyects that have concrete outcomes, unlike voting.


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## Mouse

mostly i'm just trying to find out WHEN the voting happens. I have no clue what kinda schedule they run on


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## fredbrown7

the goverment is after there own personal upcomeing fuck'em


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## cranberrydavid

Mouse said:


> mostly i'm just trying to find out WHEN the voting happens. I have no clue what kinda schedule they run on


 
You can always call the county auditor's office. They certify all elections so they'll have all that info. Or you can ask the librarian. They usually love questions like that.


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## Eviscerate

i vote. it hardly does a thing but hey, you have to hope right?


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## Critical Rupture

I'm guessing you aren't familiar with the famous Emma Goldman quote about voting then?


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## bastardmaker

I have never voted for a person to "represent" me.
I have voted for ballot issues


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## Wolf

Voting is a complete joke, it's an excuse to stay away from any dangerous situation (which unfortunately is the only effect means of notable change). Women aren't just house slaves because some one checked a god damn box, people of color aren't sitting around with friends instead of having their asses pounded by some dumbass hick by the same means either. We should be real about the world, if you do nothing, nothing will happen, and marking a box instead of having a real voice, a real fist, and real power, is doing nothing. Any changes that will be made by voting should be viewed as short term, and full of regulations, and not as any real liberation.

I understand we want to be able to live our lives without all the bullshit that happens by any sort of direct actions, but if you want change, you want liberation, you want happiness, you have to fight for it, the big men won't do it for you, why the hell would they do that, if they did that voting wouldn't be an option. But voting does keep the crowds slimmer, doesn't it?


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## dharma bum




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## wokofshame

As things are now I am dismayed and quite disillusioned. I didnt vote for Obama but i though he would really change things. Well he started out wtih 2 wars, now were in 3 or 4 including pakistan. i wrote my mom in for president, well at least the gov't is bankrupting itself out of existence, maybe thats how itll all end, kinda like the Soviet Union


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## Nelco

no.
i'm below the income bracket from my vote to be accounted for and i want nada to do with the systematic ways of big ol' brother.


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## bacongator

felony oh well


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## jughound

When i got my voting card in the mail, i folded it in half and ripped it up. a spoiled ballot says "hey, I'm very, very unhappy". a no show, says "Fuck You, and your system:club:".


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## shwillyhaaa

i vote for what kind of beer to get


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## outskirts

I used to vote. Then I woke up and realized that all politicians are just political whores. They don't gives two shits about the voters. But they sure care about their big contributors.


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## DaisyDoom

No because it's pointless.


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## acrata4ever

i dont vote anymore. you cant unregister if you switch to independent you get harassing calls from both asshole parties. "If voting really changed anything it would be illegal to vote" -Emma Goldman


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## xACABx

I choose not to vote because I feel that every voting system is rigged and this country is all sorts of fucked anyway.


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## krystlemeth

politics are all opinions and chance. they gamble with our lives, i pay no debt. i don't vote. i refuse to vote for someone that i don't believe in. in a world that i don't believe in. the same world that lectures me on my "rights as a woman". you know what my rights are as a human? to do whatever the FUCK i want. no matter what any man with a pretty badge says. because i am a sentient being.


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## viking

Voting in this capitalist-imperialist system is beyond pointless. We either have revolution or the world will destroy itself anyway.


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## VTRTraveler

In the beginning I never had the guy I voted for win, the bonds I always voted against, passed, the school budgets I voted down, passed. It just seemed that I was wasting my time. My views are opposite the populous. Them= Lets have kids, have tons of debt and get the guy who looks like me into power. Me=Hate kids, debt sucks, elect the guy why will shake the cage to get the status quo riled and hope for real change. Basically the system sucks, american society sucks....the only way to fix it is to rip it down and rebuild. Voting does NOTHING


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## plagueship

i voted once, when i had just turned 18, for the green party candidate for governor, and the republican won. oops.

i guess i would vote again if i was eligible to vote in an election that seemed like a close call, like the outcome would actually have some significane, and i didn't have to spend too much time or energy doing it. so... not holding my breath... i do want to point out that these are purely practical, rather than principled considerations.

also, for the sake of devil's advocacy, i'd like to point out that a lot of what's being expressed here (while i sympathize with the sentiments) fits perfectly with the tea party/constitutionalist viewpoint that would like to once again restrict voting rights to property-owners, and possibly raise the voting age. it's just that instead of changing laws to prevent the young and landless from voting, you just voluntarily decline to vote. but in a sense you're giving what some of you probably think of as the 'ultimate bad guys' just what they want. so what do you all think about that?


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## outskirts

I say what is the point in voting, I get to vote for some "pollutician" who's then going to vote however he/she wants on issues which I wish I could have a say in. I get to stare at a voting machine panel, with generally 2 choices, knowing full well that either choice is not gonna represent me when it comes to my views, nor will they change anything. You can keep your representational democracy, it does not represent me. Politically we don't get gagged in this country(much), but we sure get cuffed!


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## crazy john

when i was stuck in military school at 15 i was forced to register, but since i was under age it wasnt worth a shit. i still am un registered and dont vote simply because i dont feel its necisary to participate in a political process that i dont follow anyways. i make my own laws and try to provide for myself the best i can while trying to do any type of harm to as few people as possible and have a ton of respect for others who do the same. not that those who participate in politics dont have any respect, i just dont respect people who blindly follow leaders just because there "in charge". politics are difinatley somthing that effects everyone all around the world, but i just choose to ignore it to the best of my ability and do whats right for me, aswell as trying to help others if i can and have the means. politics seems, at least to me, to only try and do whats best for the higer ups on the ladder.


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## shiftingGEARS

The first and last time I voted, bush stole the election..


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## Buckbeak

no Representative democracy in useless


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## RVLG

No, I do not. The parties in the U.S. are all the same, essentially. It's all an auction. It doesn't matter for whom one votes, because politicians WILL screw you over in a society where only the rich have power.


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## fr33rang3r

i have voted in every election since i turned 18. and i wrestle with that question 'do you vote' every time.

its hard for me. it actually psychically hurts me at times and i wrestle over it alot. /shrug but then that's how i function


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## fr33rang3r

i love seeing all this awareness about local voting. that's where real democracy is possible i think.


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## Earth

ok, from when I turned 18 until two years ago, I never missed an election.
In NYC, I was a Republican, then by 1985 a Conservative - back when they were more like Libertarians - not like those fascist pigs today.
I split NYC and settled in CT by 1987.
Joined the Reopublicans again, then became disillusianed for some reason and went Independent for a year.
Believe I was again Republican by 1992 - where I stayed until 2003.
While recovering from an accident at the factory, I had a whole lot of time on my hands to catch up on current events.
I watched Colin Powell try his best to lie and state a legit cause to go into Iraq.
I knew he knew this was a bad idea, and once I could walk I swung hard left and joined the Greens.
Stayed with them until maybe two years ago - don't remember...
Last election I voted in was for a new president.
Well, we got one and once I realized that nothing had changed, I said no more...
I suddenly realized that voting was a waste of time, that our elections were feel good elections - where nothing changes but the spin on things portrayed by the media.
I picked up on that listening to that pig during the early afternoons who went from saying the bailouts were great to terrible - because they had to be because (the new president) was behind them. Bullshit.
As long as the rich pigs pull the puppets strings, it will always be meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I know I won't get fooled again.....

(but if a politician want's to buy my vote, I could sure use some "Grants" commin my way)


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## trash diver

Kinda like the good old soviet''elections'', only one name on the ballot to choose from!


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