# Starting a collective



## happyearthhomes

Leaving Slab City in 30 days. Unsure of destination. Thinking about heading up to Wyoming to start an off-grid collective but having just enjoyed a California winter not so sure. Very sure I don't want to be in the desert during summer, so I am looking for some input on good climates and favorable locations to go off-grid. I will only purchase land; not willing to squat it. I have some really big ideas and can only do them on owned land. My wife and I have been working on and staying at a squat in the Slabs and we have some start up cash to buy land and materials. We need to do an owner finance land purchase for any thing more than 5 acres and we definitely want more -- hopefully 40 or so in order to qualify for agricultural taxes. We are wanting to create a community for outside thinkers and tinkerers using modern tech and eco-minded building strategies. We would build dwellings and communal buildings using recycled materials and off-beat methods. We would parcel out the property for private residences and communal uses, permaculture, art, preservation, and other future concerns.


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## SpiderCricket

You should totally do that in Pikes Peak mountains out in Colorado Springs, CO!


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## happyearthhomes

So been looking at lots of different real estate websites trying to make some decisions. Just so damn
indecisive


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## barefootinbabylon

> We need to do an owner finance land purchase for any thing more than 5 acres and we definitely want more -- hopefully 40 or so in order to qualify for agricultural taxes.


 
Ebay, as a matter of fact, has a vast number of owner-financed properties... most are located in bum-fuck nowhere of AZ or Southern Cali, but there was one on there in Christmas Valley, OR that was particularly intriguing.

It's definitely a big decision, and being indecisive isn't necessarily a bad thing! You should def. go check out properties in person before you invest in anything...


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## happyearthhomes

ya we will only purchase after walking the property we could purchase 20 acres for 3k like ten minutes from where we are now but its the desert and we need water


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## EphemeralStick

have you checked out Oregon or Washington? Colorado would be cool but mountain winters would suck ass. What kind of environment are you thinking? Desert would be pretty cool, though not so much if you want a garden. There's some ranches around where I'm staying, Kinney County, TX. http://www.landwatch.com/Texas_land_for_sale/Kinney_County there's some listings for ya.


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## happyearthhomes

Thanx Neo checked out many places just having a hard time coming to a decision just met a guy yesterday that reaffirmed my Wyoming homestead desires by telling me he could get me work at a gas line company there


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## daveycrockett

i dont believe you ,can i put my skills to it am a mason and am good with groundwork clay n stuff really ,when, can i come?


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## happyearthhomes

I am also a mason journeyman level plan on doing alot of related works on the new property sandbag walls 12in rockface piers and a bond beamcourse over it all to hold roofing joices and tie the whole structure together. also lots of stone work and footings to be done


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## daveycrockett

i have been building and maintaining clay tennis courts and asphalt courts for 16 yrs now driveways blockwork fencing retaining walls im sure i could help somehow basically worked for the same person for along time and did side stuff over the years its what i do


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## happyearthhomes

cool i understand i am a fifth generation mason


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## tobepxt

dude im down for that idea. I always have been, but i know i'll never have the cash to buy land. And although im not rich, I can be pretty useful in other ways. I wanna do something like this... so i guess i'll be watching this thread.....


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## daveycrockett

a few of my friends grew up on a commune in tennessee what is your deal going to be like


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## happyearthhomes

Ya well I am not looking for people to put up their money unless they want to we are capable of doing this financially alone just looking for people that can support their own bad habits(pot cigs booze)
we would collectively eat and work and provide direction for the main support structures of the location


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## tobepxt

sounds beautiful.


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## Kim Chee

happyearthhomes said:


> ...so I am looking for some input on good climates and favorable locations to go off-grid. I will only purchase land; not willing to squat it.


 
You can grow food 9+ months of the year in Hawaii. The weather there is fairly nice the entire year. There is much rainfall in Puna and many homes use catchment water which is often abundant.
Lava rocks are often used by stone masons to build walls. Real estate prices decrease with your proximity to Kilauea volcano. I'm not trying to sell you on Hawaii, but it is where I'd like to purchase
land if I had the means. Hawaii is all about off grid. Bring your bermudas and flip flops, brah.






about me: I'm not a lazy man and I know how to farm food.


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## happyearthhomes

i spent some time on the big island and it is beautiful but i live in a rv that is carrying all the tools and equipment needed to build a coupla houses here in the lower 48


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## kryp2nite

sounds like a plan. im a hard worker or at least used to be. i want to learn tolive of fthe land as much as possable. i have growing experience/green thumb.


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## kryp2nite

tobepxt said:


> dude im down for that idea. I always have been, but i know i'll never have the cash to buy land. And although im not rich, I can be pretty useful in other ways. I wanna do something like this... so i guess i'll be watching this thread.....


 
im in the same boat.


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## daveycrockett

hey man can you repeat the warning from that cop in the hot springs for my friend it would be please


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## daveycrockett

nevermind


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## Cosmo

Might be on the wrong side of the Country for you, but check out Appalachia and the surrounding 'hillcountry.' WV, Ky, Tn, Nc, Etc... have cheap-ish, isolated, arable land, with useable water, and access to 365 camping on state land in some states(as long as you have a 10-15$ permit.) Laid back locals, and the fact that everyone keeps there damn trap's shut is a bonus. Just don't tell anyone i told you.


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## happyearthhomes

Well the many roads and byways of America have led me to Missouri. It looks like we are actually going to be settling in to start working on our project. We have been running around southern Missouri for the last few days doing job interviews. And things are seeming very portentous I have already found land for cheap $8500 not as much as i wanted but enough to get started 3 acres with a fresh spring and creek, lots of good size trees for harvesting, and 15 miles from the nearest town. I feel as if the universe is aligning to make my goals come true. I went into a casino with a $100 walked out with $3000 20 minutes later. Went the next day and bought a solar kit and batteries for my off grid home site aka (rv in the woods) along with a down payment for the property to build my version of an earthship. I will have more exact details of location and plans to be posted soon definately will be wanting people to come out and hang. Some of you know me from the Slabs and the work I did out there for East Jesus along side Matt Derrick and other noteworthy individuals. We will be working on the same principals of construction ie reuse recycle renew cohabitation with flora and fauna in a balanced way people will be welcome to hang and stay as long as they make some sort of contribution (work play assist)


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## happyearthhomes

So I am a land owner 3.5 acres to start with an additional 35 acres available across the road. A small pond and a flat area are the starting point for this dream of mine to build an off grid haven. Been doing some research on local laws and there are no restrictions on my use of the property except I cant start a junkyard or breed pitbulls. On Friday the 22nd I can take possession of the property. They property lines are being marked on the 20th.


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## Sc0ut

man thats awesome


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## tobepxt

very awesome


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## daveycrockett

whos comin over? and when? w wh


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## happyearthhomes

So far no definitive answers on any one coming out. I am going to flag the property lines today. And start doing some logging and fencing these next few days we wont be able to offer shit to any one except food and a fire to any one that wants to hang


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## necrofeelinya

looking to settle business at home and head out for some adventures in about a year. will definitely keep an eye on this. awesome thing you're doing, man.


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## keg

goog fuckin job.someone doing something!Missouri has the best sunsets and sunrises i have ever seen(and i am from Hawaii).the weather is crazy and unstable but cheap and people mind there own mostly.Iwas there in 2008 a bit and liked it.If you want extra hands let me know.do not need anything from you but place to put tent and water.Inever had a job in my live but pretty much can do anything.Whenever you get settled in and want people there let me know.Nice someone is doing things.But i am kind wondering about you looking for work?what are you plans for the land,etc?


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## happyearthhomes

Keg thank you. yes it very picturesque country I am applying to the state to get my electrical license in order to start a electrical company doing backup geni systems and solar panel systems along with any other work i can grab in that area also my wife is the microbiologist at the hospital 20 miles away many and varied ideas fill my mind for my land mostly artsy uses for trash and cohabitation with animals ie goats rabiits and guinie hens


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## barefootinbabylon

That is MOST excellent, bruddah; I'd been curious as to how this whole sit. would pan out (I read a previous post a while back). That is BRILLIIAANNT, and I give you big 'ups' for (as others have said) actually DOING something. Ohh, when the fates align, when you believe it, can conceptualize it actually happening, and then it DOES - that is just manifestation, the law of attraction, the law of energy. You were led together...

Do y'all got WATER? Ponds are great and glorious, but ponds dry up, especially in the horrendous heat and drought (I live in MI, and the Great Lakes have dropped 15 FEET [allll of themmmm] in the past 7 years or so - it's horrifying. I'm sure you know this, but get the land... water-well... tested. I don't know how this works; I just know water is good.  Lots of it, preferably. 

I'm planning on making a bigggg circle around the U.$. once I get fired or quit this job - but it would be more like... up through VT, NH, ME, back down through MA, DC, all the way down coast, St. Auggie, NOLA, Biloxi, Galveston (my BOY's down there), and then north thru PNW. Would like to work (some kind of) harvest. Gooood, gooood shit. the summer is TOO precious, and I am craving farmin' time - there is too much to LEARN under the brilliant sun.  But my home garden is doing gloriously (lots of letter, was spinach, zucchini, basil, sqush, broccoli, more lettuce, a few watermelons, pumpkins... I lust for 3-5 acres... my grandmother has 120, down by Coldwater, MI - that is my potential manifestation for the time being, but.. Time Will Tell. Let's see if the Universe doesn't Flip around the aligning of the cosmos (or we stupid humans merely blow ourselves up).

That is marvelous about your investment, and it sounds crazy-interesting about your projects/interests - you have quite a few things I'd like to learn someday. Yeah, I would have somewhere around $3,000 to spend (if that), so... that ain't shit. I'd lease 5 acres from my grandma, import MYYY dirt, and grow the shit outta some... everything. Ammeenn to the Earth. Small farms/collectives will be the ONLY way ANY humans will make it... and even then, it's highly dubious. :\ But that's just one of them propheciez.  ANYWAYS! Haha. Peeacccee.

Namaste, Blessed Be,
~ melissA


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## happyearthhomes

Again thanks all for the encouraging comments. I have been meaning to keep a regular blog about projects as they come along and get done mainly just chainsaw work the last couple of weeks, cleared an acre or so of trees and bush-hogged the undergrowth where they were got a real nice area of clear land now with a small pond . Its been real hot and i have only comfortably been able to work in the morning 5 till 10 or so when its been hitting 100 degrees. We have been staying at a campground making the most of their amenities (pool shower electric) but are moving completely on to the property tomorrow. My work is being impeded by the drought conditions. I am building the biggest bonfire but cant light it. I have been raking all the leaves and debris into the middle of the field we made, along with a few tons of branches that I have removed. I am removing all the branches off the remaining trees upto head height. I dunno what else to say today thanks n later


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## Auto

grats, glad to see someone is making their dreams a reality.


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## uncivilize

happyearthhomes said:


> I am building the biggest bonfire but cant light it. I have been raking all the leaves and debris into the middle of the field we made, along with a few tons of branches that I have removed. I am removing all the branches off the remaining trees upto head height. I dunno what else to say today thanks n later


 
Have you heard of hugelkultur? Basically, you just bury woody debris, creating a raised garden bed. You can do it above ground, or put the woody material in trenches (which could be dug level on contour, providing better water collection and easier control of overflow/drainage). The woody material holds a tremendous amount of water, many people never have to irrigate those beds. It's true that there is a bit of nitrogen lockup, as the woody material is obviously high carbon, but that isn't too big of an issue if you bury it deep enough with well amended soil and add compost mulch to the beds as needed. The first few years, as the material starts composting, it gives off heat, raising soil temperatures and extending the growing season a bit for those beds. As the material breaks down, and the bed slowly starts to sink, air pockets are created, which help keep the soil aerated and eliminate the need for tilling (which saves you labor, and helps preserve the delicate microbial/fungal ecosystems that occur in healthy soil). On top of all that, as it breaks down, you're building topsoil and trapping carbon. Seems like it might be a good option, especially considering the drought conditions, high temperatures, and all the particulates and carbon dioxide you'd be releasing into the atmosphere by just burning it all (which is contributing to the problems we're all currently facing). Good luck with your project! I'm interested to see how it evolves.


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## billyriot

I'm glad to hear things are going well for you! I've been meaning to start something along the same lines, just haven't got much farther than the planning/outlining stage; but this gives me hope to work more on my project. I'd love to come see how you work on your site, but I know it'll be a bit before it fully up and functional. Best of luck to everything out your way!


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## happyearthhomes

I appreciate what you are saying uncivilised the original and long term plan was to use goats to clear the land with the harvesting of the wood for cooking and heat fuel. Honestly I hadnt thought of your proposed idea and an excellent one it is the soil conditions here need all the help they can get it is very rocky and the best so. il is under the trees where a natural version of what you explained happen. I am often at odds over the size of my carbon foot print and I do try to minimize it. One of our goals is to leave as little of one as possible in the creation of this place we are building. Along with it being fully self-sufficient and sustainable


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## happyearthhomes

We are working on getting everything in order around camp put up a solar shower and built a composting toilet system using peat moss. Also had a major addition to our enclave 5 kitties and a 1978 30ft rv. that is in great shape actually looks alot better than the one i drove here from the slabs. Got it for $300 and a trade of a car dolly also got a 65 gallon water hauler for the bed of my truck. Our nearest town has a water filling station and it is 25 cents for a 100 gallons of water. With the addition of the new rv we are now capable of hosting people if they come out o also bought 20yards of chit gravel and have been laying out the paths and a nice big open area of 50ftx50ft all smooth and gravelled for the kitchen and outdoor living area


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## Hittheroadjack

happyearthhomes said:


> Ya well I am not looking for people to put up their money unless they want to we are capable of doing this financially alone just looking for people that can support their own bad habits(pot cigs booze)
> we would collectively eat and work and provide direction for the main support structures of the location


I am definitely interested. Can I pm you?


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## happyearthhomes

To any and all please feel free to contact me


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## Hittheroadjack

happyearthhomes said:


> To any and all please feel free to contact me


Congrats on the land by the way. I am heading west out of Richmond soon. Mind if I come stay out there? I am a hard worker and this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.


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## happyearthhomes

Of course come thru all are welcome to come just not all are welcome to stay. Staying depends on personality


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## Hittheroadjack

Cool sounds good. Do you have a phone? If so my number is 8043471007 you should hit it up.


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## happyearthhomes

now


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## dawgrunner

keep me in the loop, old dawg that has lost the fear of the unknown. prior army medic and marine 59 years old and still going but taking my time. not in a hurry to miss life as it passes by. don't allow things and people to rent space in my head. survivor! Improvise adapt and overcome. Invite me to visit and I'll walk in or walk out Semper Fi
Jean Andre Vallery


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## happyearthhomes

It's so awesome we are finally getting rain its been raining nonstop since 9pm lastnight


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## Kenn Lee

I love all the ideas, and I offer my support and help when I'm available to do so!! Love yall !!


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## dawgrunner

whats available for squatting and helping this late September? I need time to get this situation with the VA finished. What type of help can I provide to make the system work?


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## happyearthhomes

Dawg can u take care of your own bad habits and spin a good yarn around a campfire that's our only requirements so if so well see u in September for reference our va is an hour away at ft leonardwood


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## Noble Savage

When I get back on the road I plan on traveling a circuit of friends... I have 20 yrs as a concrete man so no stranger to hard work but would much rather pick up a guitar than a shovel... these days after a hard 48 its about pacing myself for the long haul


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## ByronMc

I think Ore,or Wa,because of location!


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## happyearthhomes

sorry all been having limited internet access its a 20 mile ride to mcdonalds to get online been trying to get my own internet installed but all the services available are like dialup in speed. I been working on winterizing camp as the night time temps are in the low 40s daytimes still mid 70s got a friend coming to setup for the winter with us hes a crazy artist/writer so times may be interesting. Been doing alot of deer hunting and wood chopping. Fall life in the woods is great wish i knew more about fungi we have alot of variety and i am sure most of it is edible our friend who is a fungi expert is gonna come out next spring if the world doesnt end she is in mexico getting ready for the big rainbow type gathering on dec 21st running outof shit to write later all


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## freeranger

this is all quite good to hear. i will be following your exploits with interest.


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## happyearthhomes

Lead-acid deep cycle batteries are often considered to be the "weak link" in renewable energy systems. However, today's renewable energy batteries are better than ever, and so are the devices that regulate and protect them. Battery failures are rarely the fault of the batteries themselves! Follow these guidelines to avoid the vast majority of all battery problems.

Size a battery bank and PV array properly
A battery bank should be sized (as a minimum) to a capacity of 5 days of load. Energy use in most home power systems increases over time, so consider sizing larger than that. Why? After 1 year of service, it is NOT advisable to enlarge a battery bank by adding new batteries to it, because batteries' voltage response changes with age. Stray currents flow, causing losses and failure to equalize. A PV array, if it is the primary energy source, should be sized to produce (on average) 30% more energy than the load requires. This compensates for battery losses and for less-than-average charging conditions. Luckily, a PV array can be expanded at any time.

Buy high-quality batteries, selected for your needs You get what you pay for! Good deep-cycle batteries can be expected to last for 5 to 15 years, and sometimes more. Cheap batteries can give you trouble in half that time. Buy from a reputable source.

Avoid multiple parallel strings
The ideal battery bank is the simplest, consisting of a single series of cells that are sized for the job. Higher capacity batteries tend to have thicker plates, and therefore greater longevity. Having fewer cells will reduce the chance of randomly occurring defects, and reduces maintenance. Suppose for example, that you require a 700 Amp-Hour bank. You can approximate that by using 3 parallel strings of golf-cart batteries (220 AH), or 2 strings of the larger L-16 style batteries (350 AH) or a single string of larger, industrial batteries.

Under no circumstances is it advisable to install more than three parallel battery strings. The resulting bank will tend to lose its equalization, resulting in accelerated failure of any weak cells. Weak cells will be difficult to detect because they will "steal" from the surrounding cells, and the system will suffer as a whole and will cost you more in the long run.

Here are some precautions to take when wiring two or more strings of batteries in series-parallel. The goal is to maintain all of the cells at an equal state of charge. Cells that tend to receive less charge are likely to fail prematurely. This can take years off of the effective life of the battery bank. A fraction of an ohm of added resistance in one battery string can reduce the life of the entire string.

(1) Connect the two main cables to opposite corners of the battery bank, and maintain symmetry in wire size and lengths. This will help to distribute current evenly through the bank.



(2) Arrange batteries to maintain even temperature distribution throughout the bank. Avoid uneven exposure to heat sources. Leave at least 1/2 inch of air space around each battery, to promote even cooling.

(3) Apply a finish charge at least every 3 weeks (bring every cell to 100% charge).

Prevent corrosion 
In flooded battery installations, corrosion of terminals and cables is an ugly nuisance that causes resistance and potential hazards. Once corrosion gets hold, it is hard to stop. The good news -- it is easy to prevent! Apply a non-hardening sealant to all of the metal parts of the terminals BEFORE ASSEMBLY. Completely coat the battery terminals, the wire lugs, and the nuts and bolts individually. A sealant applied after assembly will not reach all around every junction. Voids will remain, acid spatter will enter, and corrosion will begin as soon as your installation is finished.

Special compounds are sold to protect terminals, but you can have perfectly good results using common petroleum jelly (Vaseline). It will not inhibit electrical contact. Apply a thin coating with your fingers, and it won't look sloppy. If wire is exposed at a terminal lug, it should be sealed airtight, using either adhesive-lined heat-shrink tubing or submersible rubber splice tape. You can also seal an end of stranded wire by warming it gently, and dipping it in the petroleum jelly to liquefy, and wick it into the wire.

It also helps to put the batteries over a floor drain, or in a space without a floor, so that they can be rinsed with water easily. Washing the battery tops (about twice per year) will remove accumulated moisture (acid spatter) and dust. This will further reduce corrosion, and will prevent stray currents from stealing energy. Batteries that we have protected by these measures show very little corrosion, even after 10 years without terminal cleaning.

Moderate the temperature
Batteries lose approximately 25% of their capacity at a temperature of 30°F (compared to a baseline of 77°F). At higher temperatures, they deteriorate faster. Thus, it is desirable to protect them from temperature extremes. If no thermally-stable structure is available, consider an earth-sheltered enclosure. Where low temperature cannot be avoided, get a larger battery bank to make up for the loss of capacity in the winter. Avoid direct radiant heat sources that will cause some batteries to get warmer than others.Use temperature compensation 
When batteries are cold, they require an increase in the charge voltage limit, in order to reach full charge. When they are warm, they require a reduction in the voltage limit in order to prevent overcharge. Temperature compensation is a feature in many charge controllers and power centers, as well as in the back-up chargers in some inverters. To use this feature, order the accessory temperature probe for each charging device, and attach it to any one of the batteries.

Use low-voltage disconnects 
Discharging a battery to exhaustion will cause immediate, irreversible loss of capacity and life expectancy. Your system should employ low voltage disconnect (LVD) in the load circuits. Most dc to ac power inverters have this feature, and so do many charge controllers and power centers. Don't depend on human behavior to prevent over-discharge. It can be caused easily by accident or by an irresponsible user. Again, most inverters have LVD built-in but if there are DC loads on the system, please incorporate an LVD device.

Bring batteries to a full state-of-charge at least every 3 weeks 
Bring the batteries to a full state-of-charge (SOC) at least every 3 weeks. This reduces internal corrosion and degradation, and helps to insure equalization, so that any weaker cells do not fall continually farther behind. A full SOC may occur naturally during most of the year, but do not hesitate to run a generator when necessary, to bring the batteries up. Information like this should be posted at the power center. For more details, refer to the instructions for the inverter/charger and for the batteries.

How do you know when a battery is 100% charged? 
The "charged" indicator on most PV charge controllers means only that battery voltage is relatively high. The SOC may be approaching full, but is not necessarily near 100% A voltmeter reading gets you closer, but it is not a certain indicator. It varies to much with current flow, temperature and time, to give a clear indication.

For flooded batteries, a hydrometer is the definitive indicating device, although not a convenient one. With it, you can measure every cell individually. Obtain one from a battery or automotive supplier. Even the cheapest hydrometer is fine. Rinse it after use, and keep it clean.
An amp-hour meter is the most informative and user-friendly way to monitor SOC. For sealed batteries, it is the ONLY definitive method. See next paragraph.

Install a System Monitor 
Would you drive a car with no dashboard? Metering is not just "bells and whistles". It is necessary to help you to read the status of the system. Many charge controllers have indicator lights and readouts built-in. For a full-scale remote home, consider the addition of a digital monitor. These devices monitor voltage and current, record amp-hours, and accurately display the state-of-charge of the battery bank. They also record more detailed information that can be useful for troubleshooting. The monitor may be mounted in another room or building, for handy viewing.

How to Read a Hydrometer 
A hydrometer will help you to determine whether the battery bank is getting fully charged, and whether any individual cells are falling behind. You should be aware that a hydrometer will give you false readings under the following conditions.

(1) After adding water: For pure water to mix throughout the cell, it takes time and some bubbling during finish charge. A hydrometer will show a greatly reduced reading until the fluid mixes.

(2) Low temperature: As battery temperature drops, the fluid becomes more dense. A temperature compensating hydrometer is best. Otherwise, for every 10°F below 70°F, subtract 3.5 points from the reading.

(3) Time lag during recharge: As the battery recharges, the fluid becomes more dense down between the plates. The hydrometer reads the fluid above the plates. You will get a delayed reading until the fluid is mixed by the movement of bubbles during finish charge. The voltage will rise steadily, providing an indication that something is happening.

During discharge, you will get a true hydrometer reading because the fluid becomes less dense and will circulate to the top. Any time a hydrometer indicates a fully charged cell, you KNOW it is fully charged.

WARNING

BATTERY ACID IS HAZARDOUS. When working around batteries, wear safety glasses. Get a rugged plastic bottle to keep with your service tools, and fill it with a sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and water. Use it to neutralize accidental splash or spills and to clean normal acid spatter from battery tops. Finally, don't wear your favorite blue jeans!

Just add water 
Note: This applies only to "flooded batteries", not to "sealed batteries". The plates of every cell in your battery bank must be submerged at all times. Never add any fluid to a battery except distilled water, deionized water, or very clean rainwater collected in plastic containers. Most batteries require addition of water every 6 to 12 months. There is no need to fill them more frequently than needed to submerge the plates. Fill them only to the level recommended by the manufacturer, generally about an inch below the top, otherwise they may overflow during finish-charging.

Conclusion 
Deep cycle batteries are the heart of your power system. They may demand your attention occasionally, but your relationship with them need not be a struggle. With a proper installation, a little understanding and some simple maintenance, your batteries will live a long and healthy life.


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## freeranger

now that is some informative and useful shit.


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## happyearthhomes

got my dish internet up this week along with a new dog showed up here yesterday hes damn near starved drove around asking neighbors if they knew the dog learned he got ditched by his owners back in march when one of em went to jail hes been living feral hes real sad looking not sure if we can save him his starvation is so bad hes just getting sick from the food. trying to feed him up hope he makes it been calling him skeletor we are worried the overnight temps are dropping. hes to ill to allow in our rv due to his uncontrollable bowel movements. i made him a bed under a truck camper top stuck a $100 memory foam mattress in there to fill the space and hopefully trap heat but i cant get him to stay in there he keeps going under our rv instead. we dressed him in our black labs cold weather gear and are hoping he makes it wish we could do more for him he seems to be a good dog my neighbors piss me off one told me had shot him with a bb gun and stated he would shotgun him if he seen him around his place fuckin ignorant old hillbillies


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## freeranger

good to see you got some internet access out there. folks like to blow that off as pure entertainment, but really its an incredibly robust, cheap (relatively), fast means of communication.
im sure it will only help as you progress with projects and begin to find yourself with visitors.
thanks for the update.


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## iscream

post pics or it never happened!!! lol


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## Kayla

I'm lost without internet!
I believe that this winter is going to be a rather bad one! Last winter here in the midwest was fairly mild! I'm In central Iowa. I have lived in southern MO and NW Ark.


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## happyearthhomes

Update we were able to save the new dog thru lots a food and some meds he is really earning his keep as well acting as a night time guard dog. Everything is doing ok got my pressurized water system up yesterday and bought another rv for 350 bucks going to pick it up tomorrow its a 16ft camper that was being used as a tool shed by a friend its in good shape but old and gutted out thinking about using it to store water barrels and geni as well as an indoor compost toilet current one sucks when its cold and raining we have toilets in the rvs but don't wanna defecate in them pee only its much easier to drain via rv hose. We are unsure if our friend is still coming out he got a job in LA in the adult industry.


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## happyearthhomes

We have had alot of interest by people about coming out. This is the official offer being givin now we have one rv available for the winter to a couple or group up to 4 people that don't mind housing together. the rv has three beds one being a queen size two being twins friendly dogs and pets are welcome there will be work to be done to prepare that rv for winter (I am either closing it up or letting someone use) all systems do work in it and it runs I just drove around the country in it. (I may be willing to sell it next year when the house is built for very cheap.) Your requirements for being here are as follows: 1. Support own bad habits(cigs,booze,dope)
2. Pitch in some how
3. No assholes, thieves,crazy ppl,etc
4. No one under 18
5. No hard drugs 
We reserve the right to ask you to leave if you do come out and are unsuitable to the group. We are communal minded and willing to share our stuff but it will be on our terms respect and honesty is a requirement to be here. We want to live the dream but it requires work to do so we want people to share it with and hope to find them.


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## EphemeralStick

Glad to hear this going well! Good on you for helping that dog too, its incredible that people can be so calloused. Would love to see some pics of this.


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## ByronMc

We are unsure if our friend is still coming out he got a job in LA in the adult industry. .............................. too funny


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## ByronMc

wow,like the rules,and how straight up you are !


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## happyearthhomes

Thanks Byron actually the adult industry job fell thru and now he is trying to get here from L.A. as of yesterday. Got a girl coming out in a few weeks that has aqua ponics experience and other horticulture knowledge. Been trying to take pictures but my camera is jacked up gonna try today again once it gets light out. The cold weather is here and I am so unprepared for it. I've been putting off getting my furnace working cause I am nervous about running the new gas lines been trying to find the tools for the copper pipe I dont know what its called but it flares out the end of the pipe so you get a snug fit and holds the threaded head on the pipe. Been cheating and using the stove for heat it works just real inefficiently tho i have been baking a lot it makes me feel less bad about using the stove for a heat source I dunno what else to say I ll update again in a bit


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## ByronMc

I'd think using threaded pipe,with pipe sealer,would be best !


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## ByronMc

how about using a wood stove ?


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## freeranger

i think a cheap woodstove of some kind might be your best bet for a quick solution. the most difficult part is feeding the smoke stack out the window or a wall. but even then its quite feasible and quickly done.


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## travelin

too bad it is so far away because i have a little cast iron wood heater just sitting under the trees on my old farm in east texas.

i invited a person to come to the farm once. claimed to have been farm raised and could work a garden, take care of chickens and rabbits and do anything around a little farm.

truth was that the person was a welfare drone with NO practical skills or knowledge, would not listen and learn anything.

i put up with this persons presence for far too long, knowing that simply having someone on the property was a deterrent to theivery but finally had to run them off.

be careful who you let on YOUR property.


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## ped

What color zone are you in relatively speaking?


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## ped

dp


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## happyearthhomes

on the map where its brownish right below the missouri lable and actually really close to the state park labelled there Alley springs state park is 20 miles


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## happyearthhomes

I agree a wood stove would be awesome but I am trying to heat three separate rv's they all have propane furnaces that work I just need to reroute the gas lines to a single source 100 gal tank. I wanted to try building an outdoor forced air wood furnace but I just didn't get around to it this year its on my list of things to do next year(which is a huge list)


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## dprogram

Wow. You're a lot closer to me than I expected. I did a quick search for fittings and think I see what you may need. Brass male cross fitting ($5.99 shipped) ...it's shaped like a cross. Obviously one end would go to your large tank with 3 separate lines coming off for your RV's. A 20 ft flexible hose is $52.11 with male and female connections and the price drops with shorter hoses. I'm not sure how much you need but copper would have to be more expensive than the rubber camping type hose you'd use on a smaller RV tank and it doesn't seem like you'd need high pressure hose. Oh here's a link to the page I was looking at http://propanewarehouse.com/brassfittings.asp


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## dprogram

Here's a Y-splitter that could work http://www.nextag.com/Bayou-Classic-Brass-Y-783903002/prices-html


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## freeranger

i was reading up on rocket mass heaters. they are pretty straightforward to build and look pretty cheap. they can be a bit labor intensive, building the 'mass' part, but they are apparently incredibly efficient. 5x that of regular woodstoves. they do this by actually getting hot enough to burn off the gasses and such in the smoke that a typical wood fire releases.

the video quality on this link is crappy, but the info is really good. the process seems pretty straightforward. it seems that the only significant measurement is the cover for the upward exhaust.

http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp


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## ped

happyearthhomes said:


> on the map where its brownish right below the missouri lable and actually really close to the state park labelled there Alley springs state park is 20 miles


 

You mean inside the blue area in the around Mark Twain national forest vicinity? I looked at alley springs and that is smack in the middle of the black zone. That's a light pollution map by the way. I've been looking for a place like this (i.e. non-goofy/cultish collective) that is also dark enough for what I need.

Is there zoning.....[yet]?


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## travelin

onboard rv furnaces are pretty inefficient. better to get the mr buddy heaters. that way you get the direct heat from the propane burning rather than the +/-40% that rv furnaces provide. i know they come in two sizes, one burner and two burner. they have a little electric fan that spreads the heat. fan will run on batteries or AC with adapter cord. we love ours. 

one trick is to have an awning out over the furnace exhaust. that way all that exhaust heat is not entirely wasted but be sure the area around the exhaust is not closed in tighly.

in our old motorhome which sucked to heat, we would create zones with hanging blankets. 

i doubt you would want to spend a bunch of money on this next, but there are outfits out there that will build removable skirting for rvs. my brother had one custom built, put a little electric heater under there on low and it melted salt lake city snow back about 18 inches from the trailer.

i mention the skirting for the idea of blocking the sides of the rvs. even haybales will work wonders. in wasington state ive seen people use that blue building foam panels and even just plywood cut to fit. makes a huge difference to not have cold wind whipping under the rv!

lining windows with something like space blankets or tinfoil helps. cover motorhome windshields inside and out and also check the cab area closely for firewall drafts and the vehicle doors for drafts. i once used the shiny backside of christmas wrapping paper to create reflector on one of the walls of my barn.

skylights in rv bathrooms pass a huge amount of heat. since they are usually above showers its hard to insulate the inside, but it is well worth taping some kind of insulation on the roof side.

thats all i got for now.


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## happyearthhomes

Ped ya kinda where we are and no there is no building codes or zoning that was our main reason for choosing this area we are 10 miles or so from the nearest small town pop. 500 and 20-25 from a walmart or hospital having sized town. Their is a few waste disposal codes although they are very lax its a rocky soil here with a high water table so water table contamination is a concern. 
for heat i actually have all the parts and I was trying to recycle the copper pipe i took off of the three rvs since I was kinda building an rv fort. I was designating one rv as the plumbed rv (shower/kitchen) I wound up with alotta parts and copper pipe, stuff i can reuse i think I only wanted water in one rv as keeping it from freezing will be easier that way I drained or removed the plumbing from the other two but I want to heat all three using one source tank the hoses would do it I can get 12 footers at the feed store for $35 each but i worry about the hoses, my dog pack chews everything and have ruined two water hoses on me this year so i was hoping to cut costs and damage by reusing the copper pipes at least for this year. One of my ideas for building my house next year was to reuse all dc rv appliances in it instead of buying new stuff I have multiple everything from the rvs. My goal is to build the house for less than 25k and do it all without hired help which i think I can do my only hang up is in building a glass green house on it from recycled windows Here is my drawing for the house


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## travelin

like the house pic. check out cody lundin's house design for some good ideas.


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## VitaminDe

This sounds awesome...just seeing it now.


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## happyearthhomes

Sorry for the huge gap in updating but we had a lotta of bs to get done to winterize and had no internet for the last few weeks. Well we are still here its been cold and I failed at getting my furnace working. I am hoping that I finally got it fixed I had to recondition every part on this damn thing and when I tried to buy parts for it I got laughed at cus its 40 years old. We live in such a money orientated society every where I contacted trying to get parts was just like o buy a new one or pay us like 500 bucks to repair it for you. I think its all good now I am waiting on my camp mate to get off work so we can test run it tonight. I like to have another person around when I do things that are potentially hazardous or dangerous.
On another note my friend phil came out to stay from the slabs for awhile with us. We got him a job at a factory in the town 20 miles away. My neighbors dad is his boss so thats working out good for him so far. They only do a mouth swab drug test so that was cool. He only had to stop smoking for like 5 days. Since he has been here we were able to tackle some of my bigger projects [the stuff I couldn't do by myself] and he has been taking pictures which i will be posting later. Wish I knew about tanning hides we had a few deer hides and I found a whole coyote that my dogs killed [I think] local people have been tossing deer carcasses into my woods all through out deer season [its pissing me off big time] and my dogs keep dragging em back into our yard. I've had dispose of whats left and a rotting carcasses is no fun to handle. Unfortunately my road is a forest service access road to a state managed forest that is very secluded so people discard of their deer carcasses out here cus they can get away with it.
We also will be heading out to slab city after the first of january for two weeks to visit East Jesus and our friends at the slabs. Any one that s gonna be out there in the early part of january hit us up we'll hang. cant offer a ride to anyone cus we are going four deep in a metro plus two dogs i will try to update more often after we get back from our trips


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## ByronMc

cool


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## urchin

No matter what keep us updated. I'm interested in what you're doing.


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## happyearthhomes

Well once again big gap in updating. We are still here been fighting the elements for awhile but starting to get on the upper hand of em. My furnace reconditioning failed. I took some ones advice and got a buddy heater its awesome. Just got a new on demand hot water heater delivered from amazon today gonna install it tomorrow. I haven't had a hot shower since January 14th when I got back from the slabs and found my water heater had frozen and broke while we were gone. Also we have 8 new puppies from my female lab and the male pointer we rescued back in November. My nice field turned into a river what with all the snow melt and rain. That has been a major hassle and has caused me to rethink my plans for construction on this site. Have been looking at a much bigger piece of property up the road from me that has a spring and a cave on it. May be moving up the road the landowner that I am buying from also owns that one and would let me over to it with no problems.


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## happyearthhomes

HOT SHOWERS ROCK!! Just took my first hot shower via my $100 on demand hot water heater. I got it and its component pieces off of amazon for a total cost of $200 that included a 2.3 gpm 12 volt pump a debris filter and 30ft of hose. I am becoming enamored with online shopping. Living so far from towns it would have cost me an additional $40 in fuel to travel to town and an additional $40 in price difference had I bought the stuff from local sources.


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## p4r4d0x

That's good man, congratulations on your accomplishments.
I know exactly how exhilarating a warm shower can be after months of cold weather and little to no warm water and heat.


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## happyearthhomes

We have been thinking about having a work week this summer. We would feed and supply awesome camping sites at a remote riverside campground on my road for any one that wanted to come help out. Also we would have an end of the week goat roast and party. Not that every night wont be a party but a particularly good one at the end. We are particularly interested in musicians to entertain at night. Any suggestions or volunteers please comment.


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## p4r4d0x

happyearthhomes said:


> We have been thinking about having a work week this summer. We would feed and supply awesome camping sites at a remote riverside campground on my road for any one that wanted to come help out. Also we would have an end of the week goat roast and party. Not that every night wont be a party but a particularly good one at the end. We are particularly interested in musicians to entertain at night. Any suggestions or volunteers please comment.


Real cool.
I may have a Workamping position in that area, so maybe I could stop by in my free time and help out a little.
Never had roasted goat before.


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## Dmac

sounds like a plan! what work do you hope to get gone at this work party? and what is the chance for a float trip on the river?


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## travelin

cabrito is goood stuff!


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## p4r4d0x

travelin said:


> cabrito is goood stuff!


Man, I just read the wiki.
Sounds like damn good stuff!


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## happyearthhomes

As far as work goes it will be mostly sand bagging for some structural support around greenhouses and livestock pens. I am wanting to do four foot retaining walls around the structures to give them some weight maybe pour some concrete footers it will all depend on how much material I have stockpiled by then.We are thinking that we would only work between breakfast and lunch each day and than do activities till dinner and hopefully end the nights with music and campfires. As for entertainments there will be hiking,fishing, cave exploration, and rafting. All of which are centered around the campsites. We are also wanting to do some homesteader basic courses ie canning,weaving,knitting,animal husbandry, alternative power, gun usage/maintenance and other related things to living off grid. We are trying to get some bands that we know to come out. Thinking it wont be until late August or early September as it will be better camping weather here, warm enough to swim during the day but cool enough to sleep at night. If anyone has any skills they want to share or teach that would be appreciated. Once again any comments or suggestions are welcome


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## Noble Savage

Have guitar will travel. I am also an old concrete man with 20 years exp. I gotta take it easy anymore physically but I got a head full of know-how.


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## DregeDE

Ok travlin had mentioned this to me a while ago, I just searched "motorhome" and here I am.
I got a 30 foot class A and might be hitting the road, in it soon - if I did I'd probably go to seattle to utilize family for help with parking and maybe a little funding biggest problem it has is a carb/fuel // longevity running and driving problem and 14 year old cracking tires.
BUT if I had it able to cross the rockies and had an invite I'd be there just as soon as I could gas jug this behemoth across the country.
As for my abilities I am determined and handy with nearly any tool, I consider myself quite inventive and resourceful. I can fix anything that aint welded together (seeing as I have no welding Exp but more importantly a welder)
I'm not a musician but I appreciate most music (except jugglo music)
As for heating I want a pot bellied stove in my RV, Also might have my 4.5 year old daughter with me. Mother and I may split, its up in the air right now, but thats why I'm searching "motorhome"


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## happyearthhomes

Had a good visit with a friend who came out and stayed for a week. We got some work done, we started a lean to shelter out of logs and put in a gravel pathway from the drive way up to the camp. Makes it a lot nicer during raining/wet conditions and at night. Our dog pack 10 strong now wont leave my solar lights in the ground, they have eaten 30 solar lights since last summer. They leave me some parts of em mostly they're no good parts but I have been able to salvage a few. The river is getting nice went in for the first time this year the other day it was 80 out, but the water was still only like 55 needless to say it was a exhilarating and brief experience. All of the woodland creatures are really starting to stir in our woods. I have been watching the rabbits and squirrels as well as what appears to be a soon to be explosion of frogs in my pond if the numberless tadpoles in there is any indication.


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## Odin

Your set up sounds like a great place to stop by. I'm in the mind set to start cross country biking when I ditch the mainstream...when I do I will head due south first with visits in kansas and oklahoma I'm thinking.
I'll hit you up to visit the place if its okay at that time.
Might be a while... but if your still there and welcoming guests... this pilgrim would appreciate your hospices.
I'm a hardworking individual who doesn't mind putting in a full days elbow grease.
I like to have a bottle of suds, don't mind a smoke and like to cook... Relaxing in the evenings... only drawback is my hammy humor... >.>

Really glad to hear you were able to save skeletor.

And right on for accomplishing what you have. Keep going strong.

Peace


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## happyearthhomes

Summer is here and we have been really busy. Added another rv to my rv fort. Now I have four rvs on site with indoor sleeping space for 16 people which we put to the test having twelve people onsite last month. Unfortunately we didn't get much work done in that time having been blessed with great weather and excellent outdoor activities nearby. So we drank smoked and partied at the river for most of May. Our friends Marty and Jake hitch hiked here one from Slab city and the other from western Tennessee. Marty continued on to the U P last week but Jake is gonna hang for awhile. I had my parents in for two weeks and my wife had hers come in as well for a week or so. My parents donated a rv and a generator to us. Both are much appreciated we had been down to solar only, our other generator had seized up after almost 3500 hours of use over 3 years.


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## happyearthhomes

We saved some money by not having internet or generators in use for 2 months so was able to buy more solar panels and batteries. Which is also my explanation for not updating I really do plan on posting pictures


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## Matt Derrick

happyearthhomes said:


> We saved some money by not having internet or generators in use for 2 months so was able to buy more solar panels and batteries. Which is also my explanation for not updating I really do plan on posting pictures



Fuck yeah man, I'm still keeping you in mind next time I'm in that area.


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## happyearthhomes

As you know You are always welcome at our place Matt we could always use your brand of genius here


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## happyearthhomes

We all been busy this summer fuckin off at the river and hangin with some of our traveler friends whom have passed thru. We got a couple a more solar panels but have been reverting to using the geni for A/C on the most heat intensive evenings before bed time. Gained another full timer here whom is building a tiny house onsite.


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## happyearthhomes

New update: Aquaponics has been started{anyone got experience with it we need help}. Also our friend Mopar {The Wizard} has arrived onsite for a few days of visiting on his way from the nationals in Montana to N.Carolina.


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## happyearthhomes

Update: moderate fail at aqua-ponics we started to many projects and had to bench that one for now. Built some pvc adjustable solar panel frames instead and have been modding vehicles for rubber tramping for three of our guests we modded a 95 metro for jake by removing the back seat and passenger seat and building a collapsible flat deck inside of it for a sleeping space out of ply wood and while we had the modding bug we put a 7'' raised deck with internal storage space inside Mopar's 90's chrysler minivan along with curtains and a gun rack to hold Mopar's staff collection. Working on Phil's 95 gmc van now we had to do some rewiring. inside it has a reclining couch bed that was not working due to shorted wires got those fixed and rewired the old tv center to hold a deepcycle battery and a 750 watt inverter instead Also added some curtains and plywood drawers for under seat storage. We are going to be sad when everyone takes off. Jake left yesterday on his first rubber tramp. Mopar is leaving any day now and Phil is gone in 3 weeks. We are shutting down for most of September and doing a little traveling our selves but it will be sad coming back to no one onsite in October. Well that's all I got for now.
G'Luck All


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## Matt Derrick

sweet man, glad to hear there's cool stuff going on there! can't wait to see it in person myself!


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## happyearthhomes

Hello all 
We got back onsite a few days ago. Seen our friend Phil off on his adventure. And now down to just Anna and myself plus animals. Phil let the dogs tear everything up while we were gone so i've been doing a lot of clean up they ate a couch and all kinds of other stuff its very frustrating picking up pieces of foam the size of dimes everywhere the wind and dogs left it. Updated and upgraded our solar array with new wiring and a new 30 amp charge controller and 100 watt panel we should be geni free from now on with a little moderation in power use. Also hauled back my weight set from my parents and setup an indoor gym in what was Phil's camper. While Mopar was here he had a weight set and shamed me with his 63yr old physical prowess. I could not keep up with him and am determined to increase my stamina and strength before I see him at the Slabs in January.


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## happyearthhomes

Also we are tentatively looking for a person group or couple to winter onsite. If in possession of transportation local jobs are available within 30 miles. Anyone coming onsite would be required to support themselves we are open minded about how you support yourself. Each and every situation and person is unique and would be judged thusly.


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## robbaked

happyearthhomes said:


> New update: Aquaponics has been started{anyone got experience with it we need help}. Also our friend Mopar {The Wizard} has arrived onsite for a few days of visiting on his way from the nationals in Montana to N.Carolina.


Sounds like you're doing exactly what i'd like to do. My girlfriend and i have been involved with the Wwoofing program all summer and have worked at farms in nh, pa and tn. Now we are looking to purchase property for ourselves and become fully self-sustaining. We are off to Eugene to work on a guy's property in a week, but would love to swing by some time in the future and see how you are doing things. One of the projects we want to start in the next year is growing hops and brewing our own beer. Cheers.


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## happyearthhomes

Cool Robbaked woofing is a good way to build skills and knowledge and see what works for other people we kinda woofed for like 5 months and it really helped a lot. I am currently working on my neighbors goat farm for the knowledge and I am being paid in live goats that we are raising with their herds. We are always open to visitors and whatnot we are heading into the downside of the work year and boring part but always appreciate new experiences.


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## Endy

I'd work my ass off to be a part of something like this. Will be watching this thread.


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## travelin

im about to physically move onto my place. had enough of driving over there every day.

got 570 watts of solar and 450 amp/hours of battery(4 Trojan t 105 three months old) and two 3.5kw generators.

got little wood heater but not sure how to deploy it in this travel trailer.

very excited about it, will be able to burn brush piles up into the night, sit out and watch the stars and get much earlier starts on the days.

here we can work almost every day through the winter since it is so mild comparatively.

like seeing your updates, keep em coming.


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## happyearthhomes

Nice its good to hear about more people actually doin shit


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## happyearthhomes

Venison is delicious. I was gifted some about 4lbs. Last nite we had a venison stew and today i stuffed garlic and herbs into a roast and am currently preparing it. I am sitting here surrounded by the aroma of it and can't wait to eat. I also cant wait to harvest a nice older doe. I have allowed a few young bucks and does to walk past since the season started. I almost took a 12 point buck the other day but he was much to fine of an animal to take. I hope he lives a few more years so he can spread his good genetics around locally. While I am a hunter I am often disgusted at the wastefulness engendered by trophy rack hunters. I have already found two wasted carcasses improperly butchered and than discarded on the back side of my property both of em had at least 40lbs of useable meat left on them. People are often so lazy and wasteful it is frustrating. On the topic of local animals a black bear was photo graphed less than a mile behind my home site I am enthused by it but my neighbors are all worried for their livestock. I cant blame them but I hope to encounter it in a passive situation I have always been fond of bears they remind me of myself at times.


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## travelin

I am not on the farm yet. am currently held up by engine problems with my one ton so I cant pull the trailer over there. bad diesel from local station. got a bunch of us and we are probably going to all sue the station owner.

so far im out about 400 bucks and the truck isn't running yet. its looking like a thousand dollar part will have to be replaced.

at least I didn't fuel the massey and the backhoe with the bad fuel!

got a good start on clearing what we are calling "the triangle" a section of growth between the well and the current main field.

got bush stacked out in the field to burn and then spread the ash and hopefully this will all be ready to plant by late January.

so we are working on it!


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