# The age old question



## coolguyeagle76'

basically the situation is as follows: my friend matt plays drums in this really shitty hardcore band with a bunch of 14 year olds and they were playing a "punk" show at this "community" showspace we have in tallahassee. during the set the lead singer said the word faggot (as in "i wanna see you move faggots"((could have been a bit more creative i know)) ) and they were all banned from said venue for life. An intersting side to this, the singers sister is out and he himself is bi. in you OPINION do words with negative or bigotted connotations conflict with the anarchist ethics/agenda in any way? is it "fascist" to exclude hatred and bias in anarchistic chaos, is it niave to think that is even possible?? DO WORDS REALLY HURT???


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## CXR1037

Words only hurt weak people. 

Words are just the bullets that fly through the air. Motives and actions hurt. Words are just tools. If words offend you, you're a god damned idiot. 

Obviously, if you're going around spouting racial slurs for pure joy, then you're probably a piece of shit and should be generally ignored. But if I say, "damn, that's gay that you got fired," I'm not being some horrible oppressor. If you think i am, it's probably because you're an attention whore.

also, in before someone says, "you're not gay/queer/genderqueer/biofembotmalegenderambiguous v.1.0.2 manwomyn who the fuck knows.com, you don't know what it's like!" I have plenty of friends who are and they have enough common sense not to let a three letter word emotional unravel them. 

/rant


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## xbocax

Theres been worse things said but if your in a safe space just have some common sense. Chances are the people that are running the safe space are a bunch of overly PC ninnys. It just has to do with the spot and what the spot has deemed ok or not ok over time. 

sure words in themselves don;t hurt but what if those words bring back awful memories. If a queer person hears another queer or out queer supportive person say faggot their may be some comradery involved in a sort of fighting the same fight attitude. At the same time if someone who may maliciously be using the word says it it may bring back awful memories of when this person was beaten up, persecuted, or maimed while the specific word was used against them. We cant always know what words may mean to others but common sense will tell which ones definately will and in regards to a safe space you have to show your good intent and like mindedness before ranting off words of hate.

I think had this person expressed themselves as a queer folk if he considered himself as such their may not have been such an outcry. Look before you leap.

Somethibng somewhat similarly happened to me where me and my friends got hassled at Clit Fest LA because they were pitting in their thongs and me well in nothing. We thought it would be a funny thing to do and express what clit fest was all about but i guess the site ofpenis ticked off a couple of the PC queer folk haha. Shit is the drummer from con de nada would play topless it was a pretty shitty call on their part.


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## Ivy

CXR1037 said:


> Words only hurt weak people.
> 
> Words are just the bullets that fly through the air. Motives and actions hurt. Words are just tools. If words offend you, you're a god damned idiot.
> 
> Obviously, if you're going around spouting racial slurs for pure joy, then you're probably a piece of shit and should be generally ignored. But if I say, "damn, that's gay that you got fired," I'm not being some horrible oppressor. If you think i am, it's probably because you're an attention whore.
> 
> also, in before someone says, "you're not gay/queer/genderqueer/biofembotmalegenderambiguous v.1.0.2 manwomyn who the fuck knows.com, you don't know what it's like!" I have plenty of friends who are and they have enough common sense not to let a three letter word emotional unravel them.
> 
> /rant


 
It's a shame we can't all be as big and strong as you, but be that as it may, what does it take for someone to pause and think about their word choice?

No one is asking you to censor yourself, just consider someone else's feelings.


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## MrD

INB4 op is a fag.


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## coolguyeagle76'

fucking prove it turd.


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## MrD

coolguyeagle76' said:


> fucking prove it turd.


 
no, not you, its like this thing, and ugh, yeah....arg, nevermind!


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## GutterGrayse

Anything said in humor should be regarded as such, even if it isn't your style of humor.
Jokes and such are at their best when they regard what makes us human/ how we are.
So, if you're using a word like 'faggots' in a joking manner to people who are not all gay,
then you are in the right.


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## cranberrydavid

I don't really see this as a PC thing. When you say some things it's an invitation to fight. That's your right. It's also the right of the management to say "Take it outside guys."


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## coolguyeagle76'

MrD said:


> INB4 op is a fag.


 
i dont know what any of this means...


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## coolguyeagle76'

GutterGrayse said:


> Anything said in humor should be regarded as such, even if it isn't your style of humor.
> Jokes and such are at their best when they regard what makes us human/ how we are.
> So, if you're using a word like 'faggots' in a joking manner to people who are not all gay,
> then you are in the right.


 thats my personal philosophy as well, i think part of the issue with the band being banned is that they werent in with the clique that runs the space and in this particular case they were using the pretext of political correctness to exclude these kids from their cool club. that is the most fucked up part of the situation.


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## spoonreceptacle

In my opinion yes, words with negative or bigoted connotations conflict with anarchist ethics/agenda. 

First let me try and clear something up first though because it's not a straight YES, to assume that anarchist have an agenda, or would adhere to a "moral code of ethics" is just that, an assumption. Anarchists have forever questioned and fought moral code because it is derived from god, and by most part enforced by government, and they have always sought other means of growing communities in which these codes do not apply or exist, but a humanitarian view based on equality and anti-authoritarianism. Also for an agenda, it's hard to say considering that anarchists consist of many decentralized groups. There are lots of groups that are social-libertarian or unions, primitivists or activists that have agendas, even squats and bookstores and showspaces may have an "agenda". 

But as we have all found a large percent of people who consider themselves "anarchist" do not usually have "ethics"(doesn't mean they're bad people) or an "agenda", and are free spirits roaming the outskirts of capitalism conquering personal quests. So once again, an assumption that anarchists even have ethics or agendas.

Now that i took so long clearing that up, i personally think that most if not all anarchists have ethics, and agendas. I've hung around tons of anarchist shops, community's, squats, camps, made friends with travelling anarchists and anchored anarchists, been to protests and riots; and they all, except a select few, have ethics and morals and a personal agenda they wish to inflict on the world. Morals like, anti-racism, anti-homophobia, anti-sexism,anti-nationalism, treating everyone with equality and fighting them with direct action on all fronts. And always searching for the* root* of the problem, to create a different community.Alot of these people have set up venues or spaces for people to escape skinhead culture, to escape their schools and their homes and find a safe place to interact. So when things like "faggot" are shouted instead of a clever mother fucker or punk bitches, it may spark the attention of people that have been trying their whole life to get negative ideas like that which are tools to lower energy levels and create dichotomy. 
It's also not a straight yes because besides all anarchist attempts at "a better world" they are firm believers in personal liberty and free speach. And attempt to dissect the origins of these ideas and words and their effect on people.

So is it wrong to exercise their authority as owner and/or owners of the venue according to their own personal ethics/values/agenda anarchist or not?

Is it fascist to exclude bias and hatred? Are they themselves becoming fascist? what ever happened to free speach? Like i said, their own _personal_ agenda. 
Is it fascist to kick a nazi in the face? Are they exactly the same? or honest clashes of ideals that can grow into futures and rewrite history?
Is it naive to think it'll ever happen? Perhaps, but what else are people gona do.. stop trying?
And yes, words do hurt. Especially when you're 14. They shouldn't but they do, buncha pussies. mwahaha jokin'

In the end, my own opinion, whoever didn't punch that kid in the mouth is a fuckin moron. i've been to too many shows where the queers would gladly, and have, kicked anyones ass for that shit. And also, if you take that shit to heart you're a moron too, grow up, it's just a word,everyone needs to get past using nonsensical terminology that clearly we all spend too much fucking time talking and typing about. (especially me) Stop using it, stop caring about it, who gives a shit, why is everyone so dull these days anyway i swear they put something in chef boyardee that decreases the ridges on childrens brains. But god damn i love free speech as much as he loves saying faggots
The singer should just be a man and talk to the community space staff up front about his situation, i mean if the kids didn't tear down the place and eyeballfuck the band who cares. I guess some people do... in places that try to offer said environments. But shit man, they could be the next GWAR!!! wooo!! I was at one show, found out someone shit on their living room floor the next mornin, they could always do that.


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## Pheonix

spoonreceptacle, you had some good points until the end when you basically said physical violence is an acceptable retaliation to verbal name calling. after that I forgot everything else you said.


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## spoonreceptacle

All i said is i have first hand witnessed others inflict their own personal style of "justice" upon people doing them, what they feel is, wrong. Oh ya and the moron part for not punching the kid in the mouth, haha, well maybe that's going too far, i truly do admit.. truly, accidentally knock the mic into his mouth? haha.


I like your albert einstein quote.


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## cranberrydavid

But the reality is that violence is a common retaliation for being dissed, and I can't say it's wrong. Look, when somebody chooses to publicly diss you by calling you a faggot, motherfucker, cocksucker or whatever, they're usually not interested in your sex life. They're usually trying to start a fight, and there's usually a real threat of physical violence behind the words. And if you're about to take a beating, there's a lot to be said for getting in the first shot.

I'm not saying the words always justify a violent response. But they can often be the spark that triggers violence, and once you're at that point you've got to protect yourself and your friends as best you can.

As for using the power of the microphone to diss the whole crowd, all I've got to say is I'd want to be in a cage first.


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## colorado

sounds like ya need drink all there booze f^^^ there ole ladys clean out the fridge and move on like a swarm of degenerate punks to the next pc house bro u aint never gonna win with dem pc hipsters quicker you find itout the more femmnazi u can piss off


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## MrD

colorado said:


> sounds like ya need drink all there booze f^^^ there ole ladys clean out the fridge and move on like a swarm of degenerate punks to the next pc house bro u aint never gonna win with dem pc hipsters quicker you find itout the more femmnazi u can piss off


what the fuck am i reading...


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## Diagaro

MrD said:


> INB4 op is a fag.


 
Mr. D Your a /b/tard?
I has a disapoint, sir


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## MrD

Diagaro said:


> Mr. D Your a /b/tard?
> I has a disapoint, sir


 
A /b/whatnow?!


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## CXR1037

Diagaro is a recent queer.


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## captnjack

Go Florida and you're overly annoying PC punks.
fuckinacotton.
this sounds like when my friends band came into town from n. carolina and they were done with their set but people were like one more song, so they blasted off it like 14 seconds of just noise and than screamed FAGGOT! and this happened in gainesville so of course everyone started freaking out. 
seriously people, words are words, which is why i dont give a FUCK about saying FUCK.


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## Ivy

captnjack said:


> seriously people, words are words, which is why i dont give a FUCK about saying FUCK.


 
This is what I'm talking about. 

Just because *YOU* don't care, doesn't mean that someone else feels the same way.

The whole "words are words" argument, as if they exist in a vacuum, is nonsense. We're humans. We communicate primarily through, get this, our words. So don't try to pass the buck by saying that they don't matter.


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## CXR1037

I think people need to HARDEN THE FUCK UP.


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## captnjack

yeah, i know that that's our main communication, but what makes them "BAD" words? to where we're not allowed to say them? I don't care who you are, it's stupid to become offended by a word. that's just my opinion.


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## cranberrydavid

Just to point out, we're talking about words that have been the last sounds some people have heard as they were beaten to death.


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## captnjack

dude, im pansexual. ive been spit in my face and called queer and have had people attempt to come after me, yeah, i think its fucked up. OR instead of getting offended i can embrace the term and over use it until it no longer has a negative meaning. 
i'm hear and i'm queer, so what, faggots.
just being from where i am from, i can't fucking stand pc-punkx anymore!


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## cranberrydavid

captnjack, I wasn't meaning you in particular, and it's none of my business what words anybody uses. But reading through this thread I get the idea some people here have never seen the violence that goes with hate speech. 

Fucking around with these words in the wrong place is like fucking around with guns. They can be useful at times, but if you don't understand what you're doing you can get into serious trouble. 

For example, a friend of mine used to be in the habit of using the word "nigger" with all his black friends with the same idea of wearing it out. One day he used it to a stranger and was lucky to only get his jaw broken. He ate through a straw for the next 4 weeks, and when they unwired his jaw he was a lot more careful about that word. 

So yeah, words can hurt. Use em if you want. I just have trouble with the idea that they're "just words".


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## Dirty Rig

MrD said:


> INB4 op is a fag.


 
i lost


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## captnjack

I totally get what you're saying, i was just alwasy one of those kids growing up where everyone told me to watch my mouth. i get defensive about some of my beliefs sometimes, i guess. 
no hard feelings


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## beat_tramp

Fuck oppressing art in any way.I personally have quite a fetish for nazi punk and black transvestites.


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## captnjack

skinhead chicks are pretty fuckkin hot


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## beat_tramp

captnjack said:


> skinhead chicks are pretty fuckkin hot



Im starting a bran new subculture.Skinhead tranny byrds.Im also a sadomasicist who gets off on getting kicked in the head with steal toe boots.


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## Deleted member 125

i dont say fag of refer to stuff i dont like as being gay, but i realy only get offended when somebody says something like "look at those 2 faggots kissing fucking gay ass queer homos" or something like that. but that doesnt come up much since people i surround myself with arnt assholes. well at least in that respect.


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## MrD

cantcureherpes said:


> but i realy only get offended when somebody says something like "look at those 2 faggots kissing fucking gay ass queer homos" or something like that.


 
arg, I hate my for entering this shotstorm, but yeah, I agree whit this.
There is a big diference between slang, and being an asshole.
It is all context! context! context!


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## shwillyhaaa

oh man i just have to point out that you guys are using "inb4" im sorry this seems like shit is just getting to be a bit too much about being online than anything -shrug- but when has my opinion ever mattered... tho thats no reason to keep my mouth shut, fuck that


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## MrD

shwillyhaaa said:


> oh man i just have to point out that you guys are using "inb4" im sorry this seems like shit is just getting to be a bit too much about being online than anything -shrug- but when has my opinion ever mattered... tho thats no reason to keep my mouth shut, fuck that


 
404. point not found.


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## Diagaro

Bad, bad, bad!!!
this thread is full of fail and aids.
It is bad and you all should feel bad!


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## jon

punk shows are not a place to be all touchy about language. Had they been actually threatening in their intent it would be boot party time, but it seems that was obviously not the intent so I say so what:


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## shwillyhaaa

inb4 omg LULZZ.... thats the reaction i was looking for, maybe were not so fucked afterall


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