# Veganism and what it can mean for you!



## Spirit Freeman

So I have been going through threads on here that have touched the topic of Veganism and I have seen mostly negative and pessimistic views on traveling while Vegan. I want to clarify something.
It is NOT hard to travel and be Vegan. If you want it then you can make it work. 
My wife and I have been Vegan two years and on the road for one. 
The key is to eat mostly whole and raw foods. This is much healthier and bulk foods are cheaper. Get acquainted with different grains (Rice, Couscous, Quinoa, etc.), Beans, different vegetables, and definitely a lot of fruit!
Veganism is a moral philosophy and to be absolutely honest if you go back to being non vegan after being vegan than you were never truly vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle. This is not meant to offend anybody. I am an animal rights activist so I see no excuse for murdering/exploiting animals for taste. I am totally down to talk to anybody about this in private if veganism is something your interested in but unsure of how to do it on the road. 
Veganism is the single most impactful thing a person can do to help create a cleaner and healthier world. 

-Spirit
Anarchy/Revolution/Unity/Freedom


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## THE REAL SCAVENGER

i've been mostly raw and entirely vegan and eating only from dumpsters here lately


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## creature

So.. if all is illusion, how do you justify moral mandates?


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## smkstcklghtng

Spirit Freeman said:


> Veganism is a moral philosophy and to be absolutely honest if you go back to being non vegan after being vegan than you were never truly vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle.



are you shitting me? this is why people associate veganism with pretentiousness, sanctimony and privilege. 

I was a vegan for years while home bumming in NY, there was no fucking way I could keep it up on the road though. wait until you're in alabama, have gone two days without food and people keep throwing cheeseburgers at you.


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## creature

smkstcklghtng said:


> are you shitting me?


kind of like the churches that say "if you disagree with doctrine, you never actually believed!"

i kind of wonder whether there is some kind of recruitment going on..


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## Spirit Freeman

creature said:


> So.. if all is illusion, how do you justify moral mandates?


In Ultimate Reality Good and Evil are One. Or None depending on how you perceive non-duality. But since I am a Spirit inhabiting a physical body and I am endowed with senses then I have a natural tendency to see Duality. All is One but causing the least suffering is my Creed.


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## Spirit Freeman

smkstcklghtng said:


> are you shitting me? this is why people associate veganism with pretentiousness, sanctimony and privilege.
> 
> I was a vegan for years while home bumming in NY, there was no fucking way I could keep it up on the road though. wait until you're in alabama, have gone two days without food and people keep throwing cheeseburgers at you.


Everything is a choice. I was in prison and was forcefully given meat and refused to eat for 4 days. There is no excuse other then weak will.


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## Sameer

I understand the moral aspect of veganism. I am a lacto vegetarian for religious reasons. My good friend who is a vegan eats four or five times a day to get enough protein. Do you find this to be the case? Many grains with the exception of red lentils loaded with butter and curry powder taste like dirt to me. Also I have found that the more exotic grains are quite pricey. Protein is extremely important in staying healthy. I am a huge fan of pinto beans which contain a good amount of protein. If you have a chance please mention some grains that may not have a earthy taste. I do want to say that most vegans and vegetarians are eating this diet not for moral reasons but for health.


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## Spirit Freeman

Sameer said:


> I understand the moral aspect of veganism. I am a lacto vegetarian for religious reasons. My good friend who is a vegan eats four or five times a day to get enough protein. Do you find this to be the case? Many grains with the exception of red lentils loaded with butter and curry powder taste like dirt to me. Also I have found that the more exotic grains are quite pricey. Protein is extremely important in staying healthy. I am a huge fan of pinto beans which contain a good amount of protein. If you have a chance please mention some grains that may not have a earthy taste. I do want to say that most vegans and vegetarians are eating this diet not for moral reasons but for health.


Well to be honest I have learned to understand my bodies needs. When my body wants a particular nutrient or protein I am able to get what is needed. Also while protein is essential I would argue that we don't need anywhere near as much as most people think. And about the grains. I advocate for an absolutely raw diet for the best results. I seldomly eat grains. I had to drop everything I thought I knew about nutrition in order to learn my bodies needs.


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## Sameer

I think my diet is easier to maintain. I would think that you would have to eat larger quantities to maintain your protein intake and your calorie intake.
After reading some of the comments I want to say that this is a choice for each individual without any right or wrong. I am a lacto vegetarian because my mother and father were lacto vegetarians and we eat this way for cultural and religious reasons.. Lord Krishna said "you drink the milk of the cow so therefore the cow is your mother." 
One thing that people who eat flesh might think about is the fact that they may be consuming chemicals, antibiotics and fear and Terror hormones that are produced when a poor creature is led to slaughter. I don't know, I am not articulate on this subject because it is something I haven't done and it is an individual choice. I do believe that veganism and vegetarianism is probably the healthiest way for people to eat irregardless of moral questions.


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## Coywolf

Spirit Freeman said:


> I am an animal rights activist so I see no excuse for murdering/exploiting animals for taste



If you want to be vegan because of choice, that's great, but please don't look down on other people for not following your beliefs.

We have a privilege in this country to BE vegan. Look at Africa, the middle east, and other impoverished nations. THEY do not have a choice.

Also, you have to be kidding me about it not being hard to travel and be vegan, I've seen kids that swear up and down they were vegan....until they are starving in an areas that are heavy on meat/dairy products. That's some serious pretentious shit you are saying about one never actually being vegan because they go back and my forth.

Also, you must only care for herbavore animals, because I'm pretty sure other carnivores murder everyday for meat.

Don't have any problem with vegans, but don't go telling people it is easy to maintain vegan ism on the road, because that shit just isint true.


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## Coywolf

Also:


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## Spirit Freeman

Sameer said:


> I think my diet is easier to maintain. I would think that you would have to eat larger quantities to maintain your protein intake and your calorie intake.
> After reading some of the comments I want to say that this is a choice for each individual without any right or wrong. I am a lacto vegetarian because my mother and father were lacto vegetarians and we eat this way for cultural and religious reasons.. Lord Krishna said "you drink the milk of the cow so therefore the cow is your mother."
> One thing that people who eat flesh might think about is the fact that they may be consuming chemicals, antibiotics and fear and Terror hormones that are produced when a poor creature is led to slaughter. I don't know, I am not articulate on this subject because it is something I haven't done and it is an individual choice. I do believe that veganism and vegetarianism is probably the healthiest way for people to eat irregardless of moral questions.


I have studied the Vedas and especially the Gita and I would say that Krishna would not approve of the torturous methods used by factory farms to acquire milk.


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## Spirit Freeman

Coywolf said:


> If you want to be vegan because of choice, that's great, but please don't look down on other people for not following your beliefs.
> 
> We have a privilege in this country to BE vegan. Look at Africa, the middle east, and other impoverished nations. THEY do not have a choice.
> 
> Also, you have to be kidding me about it not being hard to travel and be vegan, I've seen kids that swear up and down they were vegan....until they are starving in an areas that are heavy on meat/dairy products. That's some serious pretentious shit you are saying about one never actually being vegan because they go back and my forth.
> 
> Also, you must only care for herbavore animals, because I'm pretty sure other carnivores murder everyday for meat.
> 
> Don't have any problem with vegans, but don't go telling people it is easy to maintain vegan ism on the road, because that shit just isint true.


How is it not true? I do it... And I've done it in prison...


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## paiche

Spirit Freeman said:


> Veganism is the single most impactful thing a person can do to help create a cleaner and healthier world.


Sorry to pick apart what you say and I respect your lifestyle but I've heard many a vegan's perspective similar to your above quote and I'm not sure they/you are entirely right about this point. Maybe it would be more accurate to say Veganism is one of the ways a person who lives in certain parts of the world can help to reduce their impact. I'm sure you have put far more thought in veganism than Omnivorous me but I think this quote is more on point:
"Millions of upper-class people understand that their lifestyle hurts other people and hurts their environment, but they don't have any good ideas what to do about it. Many of these people attempt to soothe their guilt by cutting meat or animal products out of their diet. Dedicated vegans have produced reams of propaganda to convince people that it's immoral and ecologically unsustainable to be a carnivore, but this is not accurate. Parts of California, Florida and Texas are really the only places in the continental U.S. where veganism might be an ecologically sustainable lifestyle. Everywhere else, it depends on an industrial network of highways and railroads, and the fossil-burning machines that deliver the food; or a lot of greenhouse plastic. Certainly, the factory farms that produce most of our nation's meat and dairy supply are immoral and devastating to the ecosystem, but we don't have to use factory farms. If done properly. animal farming can actually enhance the health of the ecosystem, and there is no reason to mistreat farm animals. It will certainly be easier to grow fruits and veggies in the cities and suburbs if we have tons of extra animal manure available, and most of the workers who use their muscles to grow these crops will not be satisfied with the little bits of protein they can get eating beans." -_excerpt from Liam Burnell, Take Courage America._


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## smkstcklghtng

jesus fuck....


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## Sameer

Spirit Freeman said:


> I have studied the Vedas and especially the Gita and I would say that Krishna would not approve of the torturous methods used by factory farms to acquire milk.


I think you are absolutely correct! I think Lord krishna's thought is to remind us that we have a kinship with all the living creatures on the planet. All of life is sacred. We have been provided with everything that can sustain us without the necessity of committing murder or torture.
I would have to agree with you that we have a moral obligation to protect all Life on the planet and we have a karmic responsibility to do so. To think otherwise or to separate ourselves from the other creatures inhabiting the planet would be the Human animals egoism at its worst.
And a karmic disaster...


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## THE REAL SCAVENGER

i think going vegan and eating out of dumpsters is totally easy- in SOME locations. I am doing this in eugene, oregon. i do not think for a SECOND that i would be able to to this everywhere. being vegan and without money means you'd have to be stealing or you got SOME money or something, ESPECIALLY down south or east, or in rual areas


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## THE REAL SCAVENGER

also saying veganism with save the world is just wrong. vegan capitalism is still shit. if this is how the usa worked, i would still be hoping the system got smashed for obvious reasons. going freegan+vegan when you can is coooool.


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## creature

THE REAL SCAVENGER said:


> i think going vegan and eating out of dumpsters is totally easy- in SOME locations. I am doing this in eugene, oregon. i do not think for a SECOND that i would be able to to this everywhere. being vegan and without money means you'd have to be stealing or you got SOME money or something, ESPECIALLY down south or east, or in rual areas



i kind of wonder if animal rights for cows don't apply to people who get milked, too..

honestly...

i mean.. sigh....


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

Spirit Freeman said:


> if you go back to being non vegan after being vegan than you were never truly vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle.



So.. then can we say the same about homelessness? 

"If you go back to being housed up after being homeless, then you were never truly homeless. Homelessness is a lifestyle."

Does that even make sense? I'm pretty sure if you give a person one night in a house who's been homeless for several years, before sending them right back out on the street again.. they're still homeless as fuck. I think you're taking this way too far, like a lot of vegans do tbh. What if I go from vegan to non-vegan _back to vegan_ again and I'm vegan for say 38 years solid? Can I call myself a vegan then? Or since I had the little slip up in the middle there and I was never truly vegan because of that.. then there's no way one can ever be vegan? What are you even talking about bro, this shit is bananas.


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## Spirit Freeman

THE REAL SCAVENGER said:


> i think going vegan and eating out of dumpsters is totally easy- in SOME locations. I am doing this in eugene, oregon. i do not think for a SECOND that i would be able to to this everywhere. being vegan and without money means you'd have to be stealing or you got SOME money or something, ESPECIALLY down south or east, or in rual areas


I have nothing against taking from a corporation.


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## Spirit Freeman

THE REAL SCAVENGER said:


> also saying veganism with save the world is just wrong. vegan capitalism is still shit. if this is how the usa worked, i would still be hoping the system got smashed for obvious reasons. going freegan+vegan when you can is coooool.


I agree with you absolutely. I am Anarchist and even if every corporation switched to vegan product, they would still be corporations. I would not endorse a forced vegan world. I would do my part in spreading awareness but that is as much as I can do.


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## Spirit Freeman

creature said:


> i kind of wonder if animal rights for cows don't apply to people who get milked, too..
> 
> honestly...
> 
> i mean.. sigh....


I appreciate all of your attention.


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## Spirit Freeman

Eng JR Lupo RV323 said:


> So.. then can we say the same about homelessness?
> 
> "If you go back to being housed up after being homeless, then you were never truly homeless. Homelessness is a lifestyle."
> 
> Does that even make sense? I'm pretty sure if you give a person one night in a house who's been homeless for several years, before sending them right back out on the street again.. they're still homeless as fuck. I think you're taking this way too far, like a lot of vegans do tbh. What if I go from vegan to non-vegan _back to vegan_ again and I'm vegan for say 38 years solid? Can I call myself a vegan then? Or since I had the little slip up in the middle there and I was never truly vegan because of that.. then there's no way one can ever be vegan? What are you even talking about bro, this shit is bananas.


I understand your confusion. What I am saying is once you develop the Empathy necessary to embrace Veganism there can be no going back unless you never actually developed the Empathy. "Vegans" who leave veganism likely became vegan for health reasons and not Ethical/Spiritual/Empathic reasons. The homelessness example is not comparable to this.


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## creature

Spirit Freeman said:


> I appreciate all of your attention.


just posted up on the gas thread..

i'm a prick, buddy, and god knows why they fucking tolerate me, here..
but i hope if you are trying to do good, that you are either absolutely right, or that you manage to find the balance between the theoretical and the practical that is going to give you the kind of power you actually hope you may bring towards the world..


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## Spirit Freeman

creature said:


> just posted up on the gas thread..
> 
> i'm a prick, buddy, and god knows why they fucking tolerate me, here..
> but i hope if you are trying to do good, that you are either absolutely right, or that you manage to find the balance between the theoretical and the practical that is going to give you the kind of power you actually hope you may bring towards the world..


Thank you for the encouragement. I only seek Truth and if I am not perfect now then I will be. Of course though this is only spoken metaphorically. Perfection is a matter of Realization not a goal to strive for. All is well!


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## THE REAL SCAVENGER

Spirit Freeman said:


> I have nothing against taking from a corporation.



neither do i, however i don't think i would expect anyone to do this, going to jail sucks for everyone. shop lifting is not extremely sustainable. i will be vegan myself as long as i possibly can 

if you haven't already, read the book evasion


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## Spirit Freeman

creature said:


> just posted up on the gas thread..
> 
> i'm a prick, buddy, and god knows why they fucking tolerate me, here..
> but i hope if you are trying to do good, that you are either absolutely right, or that you manage to find the balance between the theoretical and the practical that is going to give you the kind of power you actually hope you may bring towards the world..


It has been a seriously long and painful journey. Too much time in prison at such a young age. I became so introspective as a result and now I am my own God. My Will is absolutely unstoppable and I will fight for what's right no matter the cost.


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## Spirit Freeman

THE REAL SCAVENGER said:


> neither do i, however i don't think i would expect anyone to do this, going to jail sucks for everyone. shop lifting is not extremely sustainable. i will be vegan myself as long as i possibly can
> 
> if you haven't already, read the book evasion


To be absolutely honest I "shoplift" quite frequently. Retail theft is so minor and there is no time behind it for petty stuff. I almost only shoplift food. Sometimes I may grab a hygiene item or something. I have absolutely no fear of jail And I am absolutely confident in my ability. Fuck the Corporations.


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## creature

now we are fucking talking..
i dunno about the self-deification stuff, but.. i get ya..

we all have a right to love & power, as they come to us..

good luck, & glad you're hammering..


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## smkstcklghtng

you calling yourself an animal rights activist is disrespectful to folks sitting in jail right now for actually doing shit. abstaining from something is not activism.


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## smkstcklghtng

and if you were actually doing shit you'd still be an idiot for bragging about it online.


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## Spirit Freeman

smkstcklghtng said:


> and if you were actually doing shit you'd still be an idiot for bragging about it online.


You are quite critical of me, but let me respond. 

I do not simply "abstain". I do protests/disruptions, I pass out pamphlets and also verbally spread Awareness, I write and perform music pertaining to the topic, and I do not fear saying anything online because everything of mine is Anonymous.

I do not use my birth name anywhere. On and off the digital world. I also do not post pictures of my face. I feel quite secure online and even if I didn't, I still wouldn't fear anything because jail does not scare me, especially if I were to be jailed for righteous reasons. I am a Powerful Being. Not because of who I am as an individual or "Ego" personality, but because I am a human being who has realized Divine Potential within. 

Any of us can do ANYTHING if we simply believe in ourselves. This is the exact thing that the controllers in this world do not want us to Know. Once we understand our True Nature then we will be uncontrollable. 

I have spent the last 6 years studying the many Spiritual Paths and meditating and have come to the One. The source of which all paths have there being. I apologise for how cryptic this sounds. I have yet to learn how to fully verbalise what I know. 

Anyway, Activism is my life.


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## smkstcklghtng

If you think not using your government name online makes you anonymous, you're dumber than you look.


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## Spirit Freeman

smkstcklghtng said:


> If you think not using your government name online makes you anonymous, you're dumber than you look.


You're literally just trying to argue. I am done responding. Thanks for the entertainment!


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## THE REAL SCAVENGER

Spirit Freeman said:


> To be absolutely honest I "shoplift" quite frequently. Retail theft is so minor and there is no time behind it for petty stuff. I almost only shoplift food. Sometimes I may grab a hygiene item or something. I have absolutely no fear of jail And I am absolutely confident in my ability. Fuck the Corporations.



that's super cool, and quite honestly i kind of wish i could say i did the same. i don't, mostly because i am scared, and i really don't have to do it. i used to be more ballsy back a few years ago. u sound like a cool cat, keep it up, i guess.


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## Sameer

creature said:


> just posted up on the gas thread..
> 
> i'm a prick, buddy, and god knows why they fucking tolerate me, here..
> but i hope if you are trying to do good, that you are either absolutely right, or that you manage to find the balance between the theoretical and the practical that is going to give you the kind of power you actually hope you may bring towards the world..


It's been a week since I have been able to check on this thread. Your statement is absolutely profound. Finding balance is the key. I think we have power when we believe we are doing the absolute right action, I think that's what gives us inner peace. Power within the world is possibly an illusion. These kinds of issues are a matter of individual choice with no right or wrong.
The Lord of Love Krishna said, All the animals are my children.


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## Sameer

The idea that we are victims of governments, corporations, political systems, and economies is a cop out.!
The ultimate law of the universe is Cause and Effect. Your past and present circumstances is determined by every decision you have made at every fork in the road. To think less would be an illusion. We pay the price for every action we take on the planet both positive and negative and must accept individual responsibility for our present circumstances. Victim mentality is not healthy. If we think about this deeply, we can look within ourselves and take responsibility for our current circumstances. Living in a conversion van for the past 6 years and looking back I can see all the decisions I have personally made that brought me to the current circumstances I am in today. Without judgement... Every negative decision or action creates a negative result. 
Live in the world as you please, but accept responsibility for whatever circumstances you are in or have been in as a result of your own actions.


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## Desperado Deluxe

Sameer said:


> The idea that we are victims of governments, corporations, political systems, and economies is a cop out.!
> The ultimate law of the universe is Cause and Effect. Your past and present circumstances is determined by every decision you have made at every fork in the road. To think less would be an illusion. We pay the price for every action we take on the planet both positive and negative and must accept individual responsibility for our present circumstances. Victim mentality is not healthy. If we think about this deeply, we can look within ourselves and take responsibility for our current circumstances. Living in a conversion van for the past 6 years and looking back I can see all the decisions I have personally made that brought me to the current circumstances I am in today. Without judgement... Every negative decision or action creates a negative result.
> Live in the world as you please, but accept responsibility for whatever circumstances you are in or have been in as a result of your own actions.


Yea just like people forced into slavery its all their fault they're slaves isn't it?


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## Desperado Deluxe

Spirit Freeman said:


> So I have been going through threads on here that have touched the topic of Veganism and I have seen mostly negative and pessimistic views on traveling while Vegan. I want to clarify something.
> It is NOT hard to travel and be Vegan. If you want it then you can make it work.
> My wife and I have been Vegan two years and on the road for one.
> The key is to eat mostly whole and raw foods. This is much healthier and bulk foods are cheaper. Get acquainted with different grains (Rice, Couscous, Quinoa, etc.), Beans, different vegetables, and definitely a lot of fruit!
> Veganism is a moral philosophy and to be absolutely honest if you go back to being non vegan after being vegan than you were never truly vegan. Veganism is a lifestyle. This is not meant to offend anybody. I am an animal rights activist so I see no excuse for murdering/exploiting animals for taste. I am totally down to talk to anybody about this in private if veganism is something your interested in but unsure of how to do it on the road.
> Veganism is the single most impactful thing a person can do to help create a cleaner and healthier world.
> 
> -Spirit
> Anarchy/Revolution/Unity/Freedom


Bro you've only been vegan for two years!?! I'm not currently vegan but I had been a veg from the time I was 15 til I was 21. Vegan for at least three of those years! For you to say I wasn't truly vegan is a joke. Being vegan is a great lifestyle choice for sure with great benefits to your health and sure your saving a few critters but who actually gives a fuck about animal rights when peoples human rights are being violated all over the world all the time. I'm pretty sure there's bigger fish to fry.


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## Spirit Freeman

Gaucho Deluxe said:


> Bro you've only been vegan for two years!?! I'm not currently vegan but I had been a veg from the time I was 15 til I was 21. Vegan for at least three of those years! For you to say I wasn't truly vegan is a joke. Being vegan is a great lifestyle choice for sure with great benefits to your health and sure your saving a few critters but who actually gives a fuck about animal rights when peoples human rights are being violated all over the world all the time. I'm pretty sure there's bigger fish to fry.


Yes I agree there are "bigger fish to fry" and I fight for those reasons. Animal rights Activism has taken a backseat in my priorities but I still encourage it when the timing is right. Yes I understand completely that bigger issues need to be solved first and foremost.


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## QueerCoyote

THE REAL SCAVENGER said:


> also saying veganism with save the world is just wrong. vegan capitalism is still shit. if this is how the usa worked, i would still be hoping the system got smashed for obvious reasons. going freegan+vegan when you can is coooool.




thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis

vegan capitalism is still shit. I was vegetarian for over 11 years, most of the time eating vegan. I work at a vegan cafe. Vegan capitalism is still exploitative.

Last week I stopped being a vegetarian because I had the realization that if I'm trying to choose the most ethical choice, veganism isn't it in my opinion.

Most vegans aren't travelers, and most vegans are buying commercial produce shipped from overseas grown in deforested rainforests, or farmed from underpaid workers. If it takes pesticides you're also looking at exposing farm workers to a barrage of carcinogenic chemicals, and if there are no pesticides someone had to spend laborious hours handpicking weeds, resulting in poor knee and back health if done for too long.

If I killed a deer in the deep of winter and ate that deer for the next month, there's a lot less environmental degradation and animal suffering taking place than a vegan diet imported from another country.

You can't say veganism will solve the world's issues when it's not accessible financially or time-wise for poor people who aren't travelers and when the food is the product of outsourcing agriculture and habitat destruction. When the people tending the food are getting the short end of the stick.


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## Spirit Freeman

QueerCoyote said:


> thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis
> 
> vegan capitalism is still shit. I was vegetarian for over 11 years, most of the time eating vegan. I work at a vegan cafe. Vegan capitalism is still exploitative.
> 
> Last week I stopped being a vegetarian because I had the realization that if I'm trying to choose the most ethical choice, veganism isn't it in my opinion.
> 
> Most vegans aren't travelers, and most vegans are buying commercial produce shipped from overseas grown in deforested rainforests, or farmed from underpaid workers. If it takes pesticides you're also looking at exposing farm workers to a barrage of carcinogenic chemicals, and if there are no pesticides someone had to spend laborious hours handpicking weeds, resulting in poor knee and back health if done for too long.
> 
> If I killed a deer in the deep of winter and ate that deer for the next month, there's a lot less environmental degradation and animal suffering taking place than a vegan diet imported from another country.
> 
> You can't say veganism will solve the world's issues when it's not accessible financially or time-wise for poor people who aren't travelers and when the food is the product of outsourcing agriculture and habitat destruction. When the people tending the food are getting the short end of the stick.


I agree with you once hundred percent. I may have gotten ahead of myself on the way I worded certain things. Yes capitalism is shit. No matter what products are being sold. I am not advocating for "voting with your dollar" type politics. Fuck the system, fuck the Federal Reserve, burn it to the ground, and stop killing innocent beings. I travel and am absolutely against working for any corporation or paying any taxes. I still eat only plant based foods. We can do anything and we choose what we are able to do. If you believe you can't be poor and vegan then that will become your reality. I am broke as shit and I have an abundance of food. I use EBT so obviously it is easier, but I have gone weeks without EBT and still easily managed it through DD and spanging. Spirituality is key in this. To have Faith in your own Divinity and ability to Create your own Reality is necessary.


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## Satanic Botanic

The two main arguments I see criticizing veganism is that it's expensive/not accessible to the poor and it's still vulnerable to the evils of capitalism. Which are fair arguments.

You go to a vegan cafe compared to a non-vegan cafe and 9/10 times the vegan cafe is gonna be more expensive. However, I actually stopped eating meat initially to save money, and so that eating healthy on the road was easier. If you think cooking your own vegan food is more expensive than a meat meal, I think you are just misinformed and/or a bad shopper. Not to any fault of your own. I think what the vegan movement needs more than preaching is education. People don't realize how cheap, healthy, and easy being vegan can be. It is a dramatic lifestyle shift, sure, but completely attainable by most, assuming a normal meat diet is already attainable for you ofc. You don't have to stop eating meat cold turkey either. I think that's actually a terrible way to do it. If you have any kind of interest in veganism, just dip your toes in the water. Go to a vegan cafe first and try some dank ass food so you know what's possible. After that, try cooking some simple vegan meals. Hell, just eating some oatmeal/granola with fruit is a great start and example for how cheap, easy, and delicious this shit can be. If you like it, try implementing it into your daily diet day by day while still eating meat. Then maybe switch to vegetarianism for a while once you're comfortable before going vegan. Ease it into your life.

And, yes, agriculture labor is exploitative. But if you're buying unethical, exploitative meat, you really can't use that as an argument against veganism. Buy local and ethical. Local and ethical meat is pretty expensive, but fruits n veggies really aren't all that expensive local. Often, you'll find that it's cheaper to buy the local and ethical shit. Next time you're on highway 1 or some place with lots of agriculture, stop by those lil farms, or look for signs selling shit. I know you can get local and ethical avocados on highway 1 for like 25 cents. Buy an avocado in whole foods or some shit and you're gonna pay like $2. Not to mention how much better for the environment veganism is. If we're gonna agree that both veganism and meat boy life are exploitative capitalist swine systems, then that argument goes out the window and you then gotta compare the other aspects. Veganism wins most of those other arguments.

Is veganism the perfect solution? Fuck no. Is it a better lifestyle/diet choice than meat life for fighting capitalism and saving the earth? Yes.


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## JohnMorningstar

I have teeth designed to only shred meat and my eyes are located in the front of my skull.... 
Humans are predators. 
We only evolved to this point from a high fat diet, humans biologically need fat for proper cognitive functions.

I'm going to happily eat my fried chicken now.


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## Deleted member 2626

@JohnMorningstar florence huh? Thats where I am right this moment.


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## JohnMorningstar

Tatanka said:


> @JohnMorningstar florence huh? Thats where I am right this moment.


No shit eh? What brings you to this part of America?


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## sd40chef

nature is cruel in many ways. i sometimes wonder could inuit tribes or many people living in arctic or colder climates survive on veganism? they cant. i think what you eat largely depends on what kind of climate you are living in. living in canada in the winter when its frozen consistently for months and eating vegan means mostly food that has traveled hundreds or thousands of miles, and polluted a bunch to get to your local supermarket. i definitely am against animal farming in general, hunting/fishing/trapping is the way to do it. i feel like a hypocrite in many ways to be honest as i am not hunting my meat for the rare exception of fishing and eat generally vegan, aside from some dumpster scores or when visiting family/friends. just my two cents, thats all.


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## Deleted member 20683

okay i am not going to read this whole thread, and i want to remind people that no one vegan speaks for all vegans. that being said, 
i've been vegan or freegan for most of my life since i was a teenager and i find it an incredibly positive choice. i don't like to shove my beliefs in anyone's face on any subject - mostly because it is super counterproductive - but i have very strongly held reasons for it and they aren't necessarily the ones that people seem to stereotypically assume.

i think it is telling how defensive and angry people get about food. like, ok: food is personal and cultural; we don't all get to eat what we want all the time; and it's often scary to think about changing your diet...but on that note, most people don't realize how much control our food has over us, and in fact how much this has to do with the world we live in - from the environment and animal lives being brutally destroyed to produce food, to the social oppression created by the same capitalist system, to the mental and physical health problems caused by eating unbalanced and contaminated diets. food isn't just fuel, it's literally what we're made of and it becomes what our thoughts and feelings are made of too...weird but true. likewise, on some level when you know you're eating a big plateful of death and destruction, that knowledge becomes part of your physical and emotional body too, even if you try to ignore it, it takes the form of denial and suppression. 

ultimately for me it comes down to trying to be healthy and not take a bigger 'bite' out of the world than i need to, in terms of resource consumption and suffering that my life entails based on living in a consumerist society. it's the same reason i ran away to travel and squat, not just because of some moral perspective on it but because i felt it was better for me personally to disentangle from these sort of systems. as far as health i strongly encourage everyone to read about ayurveda; it is definitely not a vegan philosophy, but is a very ancient school of thought about diet and health that has a lot of insight into how food affects us, and it does not recommend anyone to eat a diet high in animal products.


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