# The 99% doesn't mean anything to us....We are the 0%!!!!



## Miles

This entire Occupy Wall Street has been coming for a long long time. But what does it really mean to homeless folks. We never really counted anyways. We have always been the 0%. Ever since the entire tramping thing took off in the 1930s unemployed youths have been traveling the country trying to find their place in a dog eat dog world. Working and eeking out an existence while the tax masters of the world benefited. Then the sixties hit and folks just started just plain dropping out and neutralizing them selves with "sex drugs and rock n roll". The tramp movement continued on thru the 70's and 80's with disenfranchised Vietnam vets joining the ranks. In the 90’s and 00’s it became an alternative to the yuppie ass world that so many have been conformed to. But the whole time homeless folks were always just looked down on by the people who are now starting to get pissed off at the same folks that always had their heels in are back the whole time. We never counted and all of a sudden a bunch of sunny day liberals get off their Ikea couches and hit the streets. We are the 0%. We never wanted anymore in to this broke down society. We just want a simple life where we can live how we want to live. There is no political party that represents us. We have been occupying the streets for a long time and all these yippies are new comers. What do you think?


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

I think you're off point on a number of levels. For starters, the claim "we are the 0%" makes absolutely no sense what so ever. You use "we" meaning there are people involved or in percentage terms, those people are numbers. You can't have numbers of a whole or larger number being 0%, that just doesn't make sense. Maybe those people don't look like you or hang out where you hang out or do the shit you do but they're fighting a good fight. Yeah, you're a travelling kid right, so you don't give a fuck about any of this right... well how are your parents doing? Do they own a home? Did they before that shit was foreclosed on? How about your brothers and sisters, cousins? Surely someone in your family is getting bent over somehow by those greedy fucks, everyone is.. that's why it's called the 99% because 99% are being fucked by the other 1%. I highly doubt all the people you care about fall in the 1% and there is no such thing as 0% as I've already explained. 

I think if the 1% could see what you've written here they'd be licking their lips. The best way to win a war is to get those you're fighting to divide forces and fight amongst themselves. There's really only two sides to this man, don't try to wedge in a third. They've already been trying that themselves with their propaganda about the missing middle aged scene and then sending in people to cause problems and violence to give this movement a bad image. Pick a side and do what you can or stfu imo.


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## JaimaJaima

all i have to say is oh punx kids with their ranting and roving... when will it end. 

i understand the frustration tenfold, but it won't hurt to take a step back and take a new look at the world around you. if you plan on diving something such as the 99, which is actually making a difference and opening the publics eyes, then you're just feeding into every corporate and government trap ever created.


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## Pheonix

if you didn't fill out the census then you are 0%


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## Earth

Those who choose to live on the fringe get no sympathy from me just as I laugh my ass off when the rich pigs loose their wealth when the markets fall, or ponzi schemes collapse. Only folks I dig are those supporting themselves and helping others when possible. At first I viewed this whole occupy thing as a bunch of trust fund kids bored with life, but now I'm damn proud of those folks protesting. Once I get laid off, I'll be doing the same. We all make our own choices at some point in life. Sometimes it works, sometime's it don't... sometimes it leads one to a totally different path be it by or not by choice. Either way, we're still - like it or not - dependant on everybody else to some extent or another - hence the 99% - and the pigs at the top - the 1% - have become a little too greedy if you ask me. I pray these protests bring about a revolution that will change this huge gap between rich and poor. Money is not my God.... (killing joke)


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## Miles

I understand the entire point that you folks have made about keeping the movement in one solid formation. And I have seen how the major news networks have already tried to discredit this movement by showing the more radical and unintelligent ramblings of drunken street folks. I am not trying to divide this move movement. To the good engineer who commented on m topic, this isn't about me. This is about all of us. And when I mentioned up the "we" word I meant the people who have been if not labeled by there own choice then by the courts and departments of corrections as "undesirable". The folks on the street are fighting the good fight to end corporate influence in our government True. But my point is when it is all said and done if you have a tattoo on your face or a nasty criminal record you’re still not getting a fair shake in this economy. A felon doesn't even get to vote any more. So how are they counted in the system? The only rebuttal to that I guess would be to go out in the streets and protest. I hear that one coming form a mile a way. But where would that get them? They get a violation of parole terms and more time thrown away. So when you a person is so quick to say "Oh those crazy punk rockers..." isn't that driving a wedge into the movement. I am not trying to divide anybody in this. I am concered about the where the people who live on the fringes of society will fit. The people who never counted anyways.


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## acrata4ever

if 11% control the majority of wealth then its really 89% and half those 89% dont even care and are really not suffering so youre looking at more 45%. its just another lie repeated over and over until you believe it to be true. like 80 is the new 50. or everyone will die in 2012 so lets max out those credit cards. or your vote really counts. if you dont max out those cards and go into debt the terrorists win. well they did and the terrorists on on the federal reserve payroll.


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## kurbster

I dunno, mostly I can dig the OWS thing, but 99% sounds so homogenous. Obviously the 99% is not just one group. It's lots of people in lots of groups that most likely have different goals.


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## Cardboard

Miles said:


> This entire Occupy Wall Street has been coming for a long long time. But what does it really mean to homeless folks. We never really counted anyways. We have always been the 0%. Ever since the entire tramping thing took off in the 1930s unemployed youths have been traveling the country trying to find their place in a dog eat dog world.


You mean in the 1930's, when the stock market crashed? I wouldn't say that things have always been this way by a long shot. The oppression of the lowest class in it's current form is largely a construct of the way the current economic system works. As well as politics. You have to try to think a little bit of the bigger picture, and how this can be used as a tool to control the masses. How many people who are homeless because of their ideologies (I guess a lot of us on here), are silenced within the system after felony charges (usually taking away our right to vote)? The same happens with other alternative folks, seeing as many activists can be charged these days under terror laws, a quick and easy way to silence dissenters, while keeping the image of a fair system.
Hell, how many of you vote anyways? I'm not sure, but I guess most people on this site try to exclude themselves entirely from the system (impossible), refuse to take an active role, and complain at the path it takes. A lot of these OWS are not radicals in any sense, you see people with jobs, families, and they probably vote.
You can for sure see lots of homeless people in other countries that are still very much given rights, and treated as people. I noticed how shocking this was in central America, where there were many people living on the streets, unemployed, but still very much an active part of the societies around them. You are typing this on a computer, you are not one of the homeless that is too hopeless to ever make it anywhere. Within this system, a large amount of people are oppressed to the level of the streets (or make themselves victims, and reject themselves). A lot of people don't look at young traveling folk (like most of this website, not to exclude you old timers...), as "the 0%" by any means. Really, I think a lot of us on the streets are doing better than the others our age, who are buried in debt to universities, that will hold them slaves for many years to come.
I guess it's just important for me to remember, you can't try to live apart from the system, then complain about it's internal politics. Take an active role within it, or _actually_ live apart from it, and don't let the current situation get to you, it's not your's.


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## wokofshame

OK not really on the exact focus you guys have been on, but, I just went to my 1st "occupy" took a trip to Missoula and there was one in front of city hall, they had a permit and everything, had kicked the homebums over to one half of the lawn, about tents total.
Well I didnt know about it in advance, but it gave me and my buddy a safe clean place to sleep in the dead center of town. Safety in #s. They said "no alcohol no drugs" which is why the homebums were forced to camp on the other side of the lawn (only a few feet away)
Does anyone remember how San Francisco city hall used to have hundreds of homebums camped on their lawn for years? I believe it started as a protest then turned into just a safe place to camp.
++++++ My hope and dream is that there will be a thousand of these occupy things, homebums get involved, and BAM! Safe places to camp everywhere plus raise the issue of homelessness to the public eye.++++++

My main complaint w/ missoula occupy is that the organizers are a bunch of yuppie motherfuckers who i think were like embarrassed to have homebums camped with them. My buddy and I butchered a deer and brought the meat by "Lets grill this up bitches", well we got shut down, they had an official kitchen but they wouldn't let us use it "We don't have a banquet permit, we can reheat soup but that's it".
Like what the fuck? isn't feeding the homeless what you should be down with. But I digress.
Also Miles, there is huge traveller, face tat, and felon involvement at occupy wall st and philly since my friends are there!


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## Cardboard

TO further the proof that America is very much so a republic, it really depends where you are at as to what is going on. I personally live in Europe, and have not directly been involved with any of the OWS movement, except for discussions and research online.
However, in Portland (my hometown), I feel there is a whole new turn to the movement that is a bit more advanced than a lot of places these occupations are happening. Oregon is one of the super progressive places (along with most of the Pacific Northwest), where there is this sort of "Utopian revolution", meaning, things are already really good, and the people revolting are having a hard time saying what should change. From what I have heard the mayor (Sam Adams) has been out there almost everyday, is defending the camps from the parks dept, marching in demonstrations, and doing a hell of a lot to let the occupation continue. Thanks to things like this, OP (as well as other places I'm sure), can start to take action, rather than just sit around and bullshit.
Occupy camps provide food, shelter for Portland's homeless


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## Nelco

like the 0% thing


Miles said:


> We are the 0%. We never wanted anymore in to this broke down society. We just want a simple life where we can live how we want to live. There is no political party that represents us. We have been occupying the streets for a long time and all these yippies are new comers. What do you think?



yesh
in agreeance
with your point of view


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## Cardboard

Who do y'all think it is that is coming out and giving you freshies, making feedings, food boxes, social health programs, missions, drop-in shelters, creating alternative social projects like bike libraries, making all the music that you worship, and all in all making it so that oppression is not the _only_ thing the homeless have to face everyday? You think thats you doing that? If it weren't for all these "yippies", so many of us who are young and homeless based on ideals would probably not choose this life. You really have it good in the sates. Very few of the people on here probably have any idea of the oppression the really homeless face (those who have no other choice because of mental/physical problems). I hate to sound like the assholes that used to give me shit, but you chose this life. You probably will not keep it up too long, enjoy your freedom to choose to be this way while you can. I'm not one of these old homebums, and I hope I can pull my shit together enough to get back on my feet before I hit my 40's, lest I become one. You don't like being oppressed and living on the streets? Get a fucking job and snap out of it then. You're here by choice, and you're not fooling anyone acting like some victim of oppression. The "yippies" even offers plenty of assistance in getting you cleaned up/off drugs/off the streets. Please don't pretend to be representing the few old Vietnam vets/mental hospital rejects/physically disabled homeless that are _truly_ oppressed, and not having many options to get out of it.


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## Nelco

i wasn't really focusing on the yippie comment
trying to type with one hand...baby is master of the other
i was looking at as the 0% more being the nuetral population avoiding either side of whats going on with everyone and everything
not so much the luke warms but the uinvolved's intentionally


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## Cardboard

Ok, sorry, I guess I got you wrong. I dont really think that is quite the OP'S point though (correct me if I'm wrong here Miles).
I totally agree with you on that point then, and its funny to look at how few people are actually taking part in this movement, considering the fact that they call themselves the 99% (as acrata4ever pointed out before...)
I'm not sure if you went out and counted all the people involved in OWS or solidarity movement in all of the cities combined, that you would even reach 1% of the population.
This is what I would love to see:
Some real fucking democracy. These people claim to be 99%, they should try to get organized a bit, and try to get even 50% of the population to make a general strike, for even just one day, once they finish developing their list of demands.
150 million on the streets, would change some shit, fast. All the police force, millitary, politicians, and bankers in the US wouldn't stand a chance trying to argue with that.
Doesn't even need to be a whole day, get everyone outside, no need to protest, just a show of force, under one demand.



Nelco said:


> i wasn't really focusing on the yippie comment
> trying to type with one hand...baby is master of the other
> i was looking at as the 0% more being the nuetral population avoiding either side of whats going on with everyone and everything
> not so much the luke warms but the uinvolved's intentionally


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## Nelco

i here what your sayin to though
i'm bad about not being clear, since my time is limited and i'm always in a rush


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## Nelco

wrong thread
delete


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## Sen

When "the people" want to legalize weed, but nothing gets done because some congressmen got kickbacks from some lobbyist group, "the people" were ignored.

When "the people" wanted their rightfully earned retirement/SSI or disability, and funding was cut to shift funds to bail out another mismanaged bank, "the people" were ignored.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Anytime "the people" vote for X and get Y...that's what this is all about, in my mind anyway.

The rich 1% will always exist in some shape or form, and some of them won't give two shits about anyone but themselves. Some will donate generously to charity and other causes, and still have a fuckton of money leftover. They'll still blindly get lumped in with the other pricks. Honestly, if a guy walked in with $10 million and gave it to me, you bet your ass I'd have a private island by the end of the week, give the rest away to family, friends, all you fine STP folk, whomever, and keep enough in the bank so I could live off the interest and drink cheap beer all day in my underwear on my private beach. Oh, and a briefcase full of coke and more hookers than Charlie Sheen could shake his dick at.

The problem lies with the politicians accepting bribes... I mean "campaign donations"... from groups or individuals, and catering to them instead of doing their fucking job and listening to the people who elected them. In my opinion, that's what needs un-fucked.


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## wokofshame

Just to keep things factual:
1) the physically diabled automatically qualify for ssi, a monthly payment which keeps them off the streets if they so desire (and section 8 housing, though that has a super-long waitlist in many places)
2) social security is a COMPLETELY different fund than the general federal gov't budget. the gov't has borrowed money from it, which it has promised to give back to it (many people insist that the gov't will default on this debt, which is where the "we'll never get our social security" rhetoric comes from)

Other random:
-There has been huge job walkoffs by latinos as part of the protest against draconian immigration laws, alabama being the latest one i can think of
-Sen, ditto on the weed issue. The last time i went to jail 50% of the people in my cell were there for some pot-related offense or failure to appear for such. Just so fucking stupid when i just read in the paper that a majority of Americans would like to see pot legalized.
-The bureaucracy has way too much power. Fuck elected officials, these people are appointed and they don't even answer to us.


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## Redd Capp

Who has time to protest? I am too busy working 2 jobs -writing and contract labor. I also put money away in a mutual fund and own a couple shares of stock. If I have time I go golfing at the public golf course or on a invite at one of the country clubs that we do work on. I have been known to hop trains in what little spare time I have with my golf clubs... Does that make me the 1%? I also know these some of these rich MFs that they are protesting. What I know is that the CEOs are clueless about everyday operations at there company's. There job is too think more macro. Its middle management thats pulling the wool over the bosses eyes. Theres a certian engine manfacturing company up here that its been told that enough parts went out the door to rebuild a new truck. Middle management gets enough office supplies out the door to fill up several Staples Stores a month and needless to say the strippers are not starving. Who pays for this? You and in higher prices.
Any CEO who tries to reform a company is accused of micromanaging....well who gets the blame when the shit hits the fan? Like did the CEO of BP know or was it even his job to know about a cement job on a oil well when there are thousands of wells that BP has in operation? Can you or should we expect Wick Moorman CEO of Norfolk Southern to know about all the defective cars on his railroad at any given time?


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## Redd Capp

I also might add that last stat I have is that 52% of Americans owned shares in some company or mutual fund for 1998-
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/14business6.htm
------
http://www.americanshareholders.org/about
shows that 50 of Americans own shares of stock and that 12,000,000 get divideds
Also State Pension funds like Cal Pers and the Indiana State Teachers Pension fund own a huge chunk of America


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## katbastard

no i am not the 99%, i am the 0%. i live in the desert, i am squatting on land that is not mine, i do not have a job, the only tax i pay is sales tax, my "income" come from things that i make and sell tax free


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## finn

[*quote="Redd Capp, post: 86329"]...What I know is that the CEOs are clueless about everyday operations at there company's. There job is too think more macro. Its middle management thats pulling the wool over the bosses eyes...Any CEO who tries to reform a company is accused of micromanaging....well who gets the blame when the shit hits the fan?[/quote]*

*So you're saying we should pity the poor CEO's because they have become powerless overpaid scapegoats? I don't care if you put an entire golf cart and a sand trap on a freight, your thoughts don't make any sense. I'm for the OWS movement, because when things get better for most people, generally things get better for us. I don't like having to scrounge for stuff (don't get me wrong I like scrounging, just not being forced to) because I think we're headed for some hard times because the economy is tanking due to your beloved CEO's cluelessly making off like a bandit.*

*At the same time, I'm working to get the hell out of dodge when things really come down, so no time to protest.*


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

I'm not 100% certain but pretty sure he was just kidding. I don't really get the humor all that well it's written up sorta odd but one thing I'm pretty sure of, nobody rides freight with a set of golf clubs.


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## Nelco




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## Redd Capp

Is there anything that we can do in the more conventional sence such as writing letters and making appointments with Goverment and the corperations that we have a issue with?
http://www.directorsandboards.com/ There is a program here run by the United Way that trains people sit on a local non profit boards. If you make a name for yourself there you could be recruited to work for a for profit Board and thats where the big money comes in the form of stock options and 10,000 a meeting.
http://www.bbodproject.com/ is one such project that gets blacks and those with disablities on boards.


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## latcho drom

i could write much more,just two things to mention:-general strike is a powerful weapon against the system,-everyday life,small,personal revolutions are essential and so fucking important,and we all have the responsibility for this...and last but not least:"the revolution will not be televised"gil scot heron...


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

"Is there anything that we can do in the more conventional sence such as writing letters and making appointments with Goverment and the corperations that we have a issue with?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlxbKtBkGM

I'm not so much a pack rat as, I simply don't like fussing with junk mail all that often, I have a huge bankers box full of credit card offers and junk I usually let fill up and toss the whole thing. I saw this video and I'm excited to finally get back to these people with some correspondence. I'm sure they've been dying to hear from me anyways and it's just not right to throw all this paper away, even recycling it doesn't seem to really justify the trees they used to fashion these envelopes from. I'll be damned if I'm gonna go out and spend money on shingles like this guy has but I have 10 acres of manzanita with heaps of naturally fallen branches some 10 inches thick, real old growth shit. I think I'll take a big log of that manzanita and fire up the miter saw, cut some nice little planks ya know. That wood is pretty heavy and dense, it should not only get the rigid flag but a good couple/few bucks per envelope in weight as well.


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## BobbinGoblin

I would recommend heading down to your nearest occupation and seeing what it's like. _We're just kids building models of the world that we want to live in_, right? Well, go down and build it, then (or at least lend your solidarity). The ground is fertile. True, the generalization of 'the 99%' is a little watered-down for my taste and I am shy of the term 'occupy,' but... do you want the world at large to remain how it is and/or barrel onward in the same direction? Modern society does provide some infrastructure for the travelling lifestyle, but it's not exactly necessary... especially if you can hunt deer.

When I saw that this was taking place on Wall Street, I was cursing being in Ireland instead of America. But class separation and ignorance not only an American issue. On 15 Oct, the Eyre Square camp in Galway, Ireland began, and has been creating dialogue and becoming more organized ever since. People have been coming out from behind their curtains and their televisions and meeting each other, talking about the world that they see and the world that they want. I have met people I would've otherwise never met. Now there is a place to go in town to have compelling conversations without the pressure to purchase some sort of something - in fact, it is a place to share food and tea and contribute without asking why. People are learning from each other.

The previous lack of this cooperation and discussion has depressed me for too long not to celebrate this movement.


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## BobbinGoblin

Eng JR Lupo said:


> "Is there anything that we can do in the more conventional sence such as writing letters and making appointments with Goverment and the corperations that we have a issue with?"
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlxbKtBkGM



^the shit.


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

Also I personally am highly against this whole "we're the 0%" concept, for one because on mathmatical terms it just sounds stupid as fuck and a bit too emo if you ask me (though I hate the newer use of that word and perfer the days it more so related to Embrace, Avail, bands that had highly emotive changing tempos). Two, it's absurd to think you can go off in your little exclusive "0% neutral party" sect and think you're not accountable. Now they gotta *love* you for you to fight them? They have to *acknowledge* you for you to fight them? *Fuck that!* You're accountable, period! If you can't see the injustice going on here then you're fucking *blind!* If you *can* see it and you're claiming you're not part of it on some bullshit "they never acknowledged me anyways" well, I personally think that makes you a puss, a coward looking for any excuse to remain right where you are, as comfortable as can be rather than standing up for what you know god damn well is the right thing to do. Everyone is accountable for this shit, We let them get us here, and they orchestrated it. Now we gotta stop that shit, there's no other options. I know we can't all be in the streets kicking the doors down on the fed, some of us have kids and shit tying us to some po-dunk towns that have no movement to begin with, that's fine... So at least participate in the dialogue online, debate this thing. Bring focus to it, start looking for alternative ways you can still do something from where you sit, something other than making yourself out to be a victim ya bitch.


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## Vixious

Cardboard said:


> These people claim to be 99%, they should try to get organized a bit, and try to get even 50% of the population to make a general strike, for even just one day, once they finish developing their list of demands.


In response to this, i think a large part of the problem here is that there are so many damned problems in the US, and how the government/corporate entities govern/do business, that there is too large a pool of valid points to choose from. I agree that a set short list of goals needs to be decided on, and as much as i enjoy the amorphous hodge podge of classes/incomes/religions/ideals/etc actually coming together in ANY capacity, an organized, defined infrastructure needs to be established for this to go any further, especially with the media spinning things as fast as they can. But as we've all experienced at some point or another, deciding where to eat, crash, what have you, how hard it can be to form a consensus, and thats with just a handful of people in the same location, let alone spread across the US, and with no real intercommunication.


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## plagueship

this might be a good time to have a second look at that book 'the coming insurrection' which was written by some extremely nerdy euro radicals about the kinds of protest movements they saw coming out of the economic crisis that was then just starting, and about the kinds of choices they would face. despite all the energy contributed by anarchists and all those who want to think this is going to go their way, this thing seems to be very clearly dominated by authoritarian liberals and leftists. this type of tactic may be relatively new in america but it's very characteristic of the european left, and ideologically it's nothing new at all, just a bunch of vague slogans that some lowest common denominator of the vaguely-leftist can rally around, run out and go 'do something' and feel like they are 'creating new forms of politics' & etc. i wonder whether any of them have considered how such new political forms will solve effects that are so intrinsic to the structure of the economy. it really just seems to be an expansion on the suggestion-box aspect of democratic capitalism.


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## Sen

@plagueship - I agree with most of what you said.. it is a pretty watered-down, generic movement. A lot of the folks involved realize that, and (at least in Pittsburgh) are starting to become discontent with the vagueness of it all, and are slowly starting to acknowledge what they're NOT there for, which is an indirect realization of what they really want.

I think the key issue is the lack of acknowledgement from the government. They do what they want, corporations do what they want, and we're stuck following the rules and funding it. There was a really good graphic out there in the form of a Venn diagram (I'm sure there's several) that compare and contrast Occupy with Tea Party. That part in the middle is what the "99%" is about. If people focus on that issue and resolve it, we can all happily resume arguing over the usual political bullshit. But we'll never make any progress until that core issue is settled.

http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834520b4b69e2015392ac8931970b-450wi


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## acrata4ever

i have to agree ceos are members of the proletariat


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

Sen said:


> compare and contrast Occupy with Tea Party. That part in the middle is what the "99%" is about. If people focus on that issue and resolve it, we can all happily resume arguing over the usual political bullshit. http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/.a/6a00d834520b4b69e2015392ac8931970b-450wi


I have to disagree. I think if you're still setting up sides, be that liberals vs. conservatives, gay vs. straight, black vs white, ows vs tea party, etc, etc, etc, you're doing the best they could hope for, which is still attacking horizontally at your brother. You're still not looking up in those buildings, you're aiming sideways at the next man and they're looking down with a smile pulling your strings like the puppets we've been for the last century. It's not these guy's over here and their views, vs. us and our views and how we gotta resolve that in order to take the next step. No, we've done that with all those stereotypes I listed above, we've squashed them all and there's only love between those lines now, yet shit still isn't working. Now they're trying to seperate us again with labels. I don't think it should be so distorted, kick in the doors on the fed and cut the throat on that bitch, end this Keynesian economy for good. There's really no greater enemy at the moment as I see it. We end that, shit is changing, period!


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## up2eleven

99% is not an ideology, it's an income bracket. If you make less than $500,000/year, you're part of the 99%. $0 is less than $500,000 so we're part of the 99%.


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## Nelco

if you guys say so


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## Sen

Eng JR Lupo said:


> No, we've done that with all those stereotypes I listed above, we've squashed them all and there's only love between those lines now, yet shit still isn't working.



I think I'm missing something here.. maybe I can rephrase my original post:
"To the people still calling OWS a bunch of hippie kids who need to get a job and making your "I'm too busy in Iraq to occupy wall street", wake up and realize we're all fighting essentially the same battle."



Eng JR Lupo said:


> Now they're trying to seperate us again with labels. I don't think it should be so distorted, kick in the doors on the fed and cut the throat on that bitch, end this Keynesian economy for good. There's really no greater enemy at the moment as I see it. We end that, shit is changing, period!


Yeah, I wouldn't be surprized to see the US at this point in a year or two. People are starting to wake up.


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## RVLG

kurbster said:


> I dunno, mostly I can dig the OWS thing, but 99% sounds so homogenous. Obviously the 99% is not just one group. *It's lots of people in lots of groups that most likely have different goals.*


Indeed. Watching videos and reading reports of OWS show that the protesters include angry yuppies, Democrats, Republicans, "Libertarians", Libertarians, Environmentalists, Anarchists, Marxists, hippies, Stalinists, Randians, centrists, apoliticals, and probably many more.


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## Redd Capp

What the Establishment needs to do is inflitrate the protests by getting agent provactuers (however you spell that) and disrupt the protests by vadalism and fire crackers behind the police to make they are getting shot at so they in turn shoot the protesters like they did at Kent State. Kent State basicaly shut down mass protesting on college campuses for a while. The agents could also cause havoc by making sure that the protest movement does not have a solid platform of issues.


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## butters

its been said before. the economy is just the new religion. a form of control. i look at all my friends from high school, and all of my familly members. they are so deep in debt they just look so sad when they talk about it. deep down they know they are slaves. I'm the only one that didn't follow societies guidlines for becoming a happy healthy citizen. >puke<. i would sort of consider myself to be one of the 0%ers. i deffinetly sleep out side more than your average yuppi yogie bear. Don't get me wrong though, i DON"T have to fight any where near as hard as almost everyone here on this site, but thats only because most people really fucking like me. I'm nice guy.

we have so much space out here in western Canada that i don't think any real sparks are going to be struck out here. we're just a bunch of pacifists anyways. but, out east, down in the states, mexico, africa. places were there are just too many people and not enough work, water, food, or space things are going to get fucking nasty. (if international trade suddenly stopped. only canada, russia, and mongolia and possibly only a few other contries would be able to support their own populations) when walmart closes its doors the SUV driving, zombie socker moms are going to be aiming for YOU! remember you don't have to out run them you just have to out run your friends or wait for them to run out of gas.

Humanity is facing a population crisis. the human population reached 7 billion on Oct 31 2011, and because, there probably isin't going to be any more land opening up any time soon, we will probably be facing a population adjustment instead, because the world can't handle all of us.

Debt and IMF restructuring plans are squeezing the third world. Creditcard and mortgage debt is squeezing folks here in the west, and national debt, western countries. wouldn't it be nice to deal your self the deck and short hand eveybody else. its all a bigger picture issue.

OWS movments probably wont accomplish anything. regarding disperity because the debt collectors don't want it that way. thats my opinion. sorry if any one disagrees.


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

butters said:


> Humanity is facing a population crisis. the human population reached 7 billion on Oct 31 2011, and because, there probably isin't going to be any more land opening up any time soon, we will probably be facing a population adjustment instead, because the world can't handle all of us. OWS movments probably wont accomplish anything. regarding disperity because the debt collectors don't want it that way. thats my opinion. sorry if any one disagrees.



Yeah, I disagree. I think the world can handle all of us just fine if we were not such douche bags as to how we treat the world. I think if we were smarter about how we took resources and replentish back more to it than what we're taking, I think we could damn near double this population and get by fine. It's not the ammount of land available that makes population an issue, it's what we take and what we're not putting back, how efficient we are with what we take is also a huge factor. I think we just need to wise up. As for the other negative shit you had to say at the end, you're free to think that way. Did you check out Oakland today? I don't think this is dying down, I don't think this is even the middle of the movement. I think we're barely seeing the beginning of something that will continue to grow and grow until shit is changed world wide. I think things are already changing and you'll start seeing it unfold over the next week. Just my opinion.


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## butters

no i haven't had a chance to get down to Oakland. i'll have to wait a few months for my passport to get here. i was thinking of checking out the one in calgary and showing my support though. in calgary, the city officials feel that the protesters are no longer welcome but they aren't making the police to enforce it. when they do enforce it how many people do you think are going to defiy the athorities. i think that someone mentioned a general strike of over half of the population... that would get shit done, but how you gonna do it. a big problem is that the media is already starting to look away and the people who really can make a difference are thinking to them selves "fuck am i glad i'm not sleeping in a tent to night".

i'll be the fisrt one to say that i'm not perfect, but i do have a much smaller foot print than your average noth american. if you're going to convince your average north american to waist less and respect the environment. please tell me how because i would love to help (genuinly).

land mass does factor in. if you doubled the human population you would have to urbanize a lot of land to house people. when they develop farmland where are you going to grow your food?


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## Eng JR Lupo RV323

Well, when I said we could double the pop and still get by, it was more to show how much I don't think people and land mass is the concern, claiming doubling could still be done but yeah, I know that would require some serious developing, build up, not out and wide type stuff but nobody wants to live like that. Nah hell no I don't want to double, I'm just stating I don't think 7 billion is the most we can sustain, I'm certain we can sustain fine and far better than we have been if we start to become responsible for our actions and treat the living organism we're all standing on a little better, maybe treat it as though we're aware it's alive and not try and kill it and shit. 

Hey you said some interesting things that got me kinda wondering where you get your information from. For one, you stated "a big problem is that the media is already starting to look away" and the other was "the people who really can make a difference are thinking to them selves "fuck am i glad i'm not sleeping in a tent to night"
I don't know, that last bit sounds like something you peeled right off the nightly news, the first sounds as if you actually have some sort of faith in them like they're here to help?


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## butters

well, we are in two different contries. and i can tell you for a fact that canadian media and american media usually have two diffrent versions of the same story. i know this because, we get both versions up here.

every thing that i've said is just an opinion and because of that it doesn't mean a thing. don't take it too seriosly.

i don't know for sure but it looks like your wording is off. when i kind of said 'that the very wealthy and the upper middle class don't have to sleep outdoors and want to keep the status quo' (this is what i meant to say, should have explained it better, but i was tired). it sounds like you're saying that i coppied it from the news, sorry dude thats just an opinion.

i'm working now so i really have no time to check the news, but from what i can tell from the little news that i see Calgary, AB Canada, and Victoria, BC Canada have asked the protesters to leave.

it seems to me that the middle class has the democratic majority, and are easily swayed by the media, which is owned by the wealthy. if the media is saying that most of the protesters are homeless people looking for a safe place to sleep then thats what most middle class people would think too. the middle class doesn't like the poor because the poor represent all the bad things that can happen. the poor are not "safe" to be around. i'm infering that from the attitudes of most of the people that i know and come across who haven't "been there". unfortunetly most people can't see past whats right in front of them, and don't think about tomorrow or sometimes even what's good for other people. it is what it is, i guess.


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## Redd Capp

0%? tune in and drop out? I have tried to play the game.....I have voted,collected signatures to run for public office and ran for that office (got 500 votes), I am a gadfly and show up at planning meetings, I have lobbied for a light rail extension, investigated corruption at a major university and helped get a state grant to put in a railroad spur at a warehouse and printing plant that I worked at. I have showed up at shareholder meetings and shook hands with the CEOs. I believe that you should at least try to work within the system before you try some violent overthrowing of the government. ---History has showed us that the "Brains" need the "Strongmen Dogs" to kick ass and kick ass and kick ass. But when the "Glorious Revelation" is over the "Strongmen Dogs" end up biting and killing the people that they were supposed to save.


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## damtp

We are 0%
The concept of 99% turned itself into the mass of tended-to-be-represented folks not different from former 100%-ers represented in “we are all humans” system usually named as bourgeois democracy.
We are outside from 100% of statistics based paneconomism which is deeply racist at its core.
We’re against oppression by plutocratic 1%-ers or that established by manipulative majority.
We are unmanageable multitude of selforganised zeros

http://antisystemic.org/SW/SituationistWorker-0%.pdf


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