# Jury Duty



## nick (Sep 26, 2009)

got a letter for summons. anyone have experience with just ignoring it, while being stuck? they say there's a big fine if you don't show, which i imagine if you don't pay it a warrant will go out.

i am going to ignore it. sure as fuck not gunna show up in bev. hills to waste a day. but since i drive, it puts extra paranoia on me. like a while from now, if i get pulled over and they run my name. fuck cops still run me every so often for just sitting around. and i really want to avoid the LA jail system.

so anyone get the letter? if so what did ya do?


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## Smallredbox (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, my girlfriend's dad has called them on a few occasions telling them he couldn't show up because he was the sole provider for his family and he couldn't miss any days of work. He used that one twice as far as I know, with no problems.

I don't know if you could use that excuse in your situation, or even if they check to verify your excuse. 

In any case, good luck!


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 26, 2009)

you'll get a contempt of court charge and they will attach it to your license (out here anywayz).

this is something i am going to speak on. being a citizen has a couple of duties. one of them is serving as a jury of your peers. you can simply go on the day and when they poll you w/some simple questionare they'll dismiss you and you'll get a few bucks for showing up.

now, most folks say fuck the US and fuck capitalism and fuck everything. and that's fine. perhaps those same folks shoud contemplate expatriation. i mean 30 minutes out of a person's day, once in a lifetime, isn't that much to ask for. sure is nice to reap the benefits of being a citizen, but when it comes to putting something back in the pot...i mean if you're really trying to rebel why not just do it completely? and being summoned into beverly hills? shit, if your address is BH and that's the ONLY way you'd be summoned for jury duty there and you can't FAKE that address as i know because my crew and i tried to do it you've reaped FAR more benefits as a citizen than almost all folks on here combined!

this forum is a PRIME example of the rewards of being a citizen of the US. now, i COMPLETELY agree w/what matt has created here; a forum to present ideals from an anarcho/punk point-of-view. this ideas are allowed because we live in the US. most of us are citizens of the US. see, that 'ol deal of '...yeah, fuck the US and citizenship...' is just blowhard shit. until one makes the decision to fuck off (exspatriate) their citizenship it's just that, blowhard shit. i will voluteer to do ANYONE's expatriation as i've done three for folks. two have never been heard from again; probably languishing in a prison or dead somewhere in istanbul and the other one i talk w/periodically via mail as she is in prison in china. 

matt and most folks on here know, though, that i'm tolerated if for only to present a 'devil's advocate-type' perspective (and i caught one train back in '91)  ) try out china for a taste of the real, non capitalistic society. like censorship? like persecution? or perhaps try russia. 

might also add a bit to your profile so folks know who you are.

fucking 30 minutes in exchange for your ability to say fuck the government doesn't seem much.


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## bote (Sep 26, 2009)

i have to agree with ibrr's sentiment. Unless you just can't (work, family), it's basically being paid to help people and contribute. I tell you, I sat in court and watched the guy who muredered my friend almost get off because he had a fancy lawyer, and I was pretty glad that the jury saw through the bullshit. Plus it'll be a pretty unique, new experience, no? How come you don't want to?


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## dirty_rotten_squatter (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, ta my knowledge how you get summoned for jury duty is by your voter registrations card. Could be mistaken though. A friends of mine said he was out of state for 2 months and wasn't gonna make it back..good luck


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## Bullet (Sep 26, 2009)

personally I think it would be fun to show up all anarcho-punked-out and clearly be a terrible pick so they wouldn't make you serve.
Or...
"Everyone is innocent...unless it's a man, then I hope he burns!"
I don't know. Something ridiculous.


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## veggieguy12 (Sep 26, 2009)

I would *LOVE* to get on a jury; I've had two summonses, but not been picked both times. They don't want anyone who's been a defendant, anyone who's related to law enforcement, anyone with any prejudices.
Think about it: you can vote against conviction if you think the "crime" charged is based on an unjust law. Just by being on this site, I'll bet you're going to bring a perspective that is too often excluded and forgotten inside courtrooms - unless one of us is a defendant.
Suppose it's an obvious shoplifting case, but the kid is crazy enough to trial it rather than take a plea. So you're the one juror voting for acquittal, so it's deadlocked and the case has to be re-tried or the prosecutors sweeten their offer to the defendant. Great, no?
Dress nice, be polite, get on a jury, and use your head about the case.


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## dirty_rotten_squatter (Sep 26, 2009)

Fuck all that shit..I'll show up wasted off my ass preaching about how the end of the world is near and my bad memories of the farm....but id never get summoned cuz i never voted or anything like that


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 26, 2009)

yup, all jury duty rolls are pulled from voter registration cards. the reason being is that it is the only fool-proof way of determining citizenship (the card can actually be used for ID) and ensuring your rights are intact (i.e.; if you were in prison, that they have cleared you). that would mean that nick/ is registered as a voter in BH. so, on the one hand, anti-capitalism/government, but wanted to vote? hmnn....not slamming u there nick/; just and observation.

i agree w/everyone who replied here too. what better way to voice a belief system and/or to throw a cog in the machinery than jury duty!!!


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## LovelyAcorns (Sep 26, 2009)

veggieguy12 said:


> I would *LOVE* to get on a jury; I've had two summonses, but not been picked both times. They don't want anyone who's been a defendant, anyone who's related to law enforcement, anyone with any prejudices.
> Think about it: you can vote against conviction if you think the "crime" charged is based on an unjust law. Just by being on this site, I'll bet you're going to bring a perspective that is too often excluded and forgotten inside courtrooms - unless one of us is a defendant.
> Suppose it's an obvious shoplifting case, but the kid is crazy enough to trial it rather than take a plea. So you're the one juror voting for acquittal, so it's deadlocked and the case has to be re-tried or the prosecutors sweeten their offer to the defendant. Great, no?
> Dress nice, be polite, get on a jury, and use your head about the case.



Gonna agree with you on this one. Getting to keep someone out of prison would always be fun. Too bad I don't have a voter's card. I should get one.



> try out china for a taste of the real, non capitalistic society. like censorship? like persecution? or perhaps try russia.


Um, China isn't exactly "non-capitalist".


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## nick (Sep 26, 2009)

i don't want to do it because a) its far (i don't live in BH, i live prob 20 miles from it, why i got requested there i have no idea) and b) i'm probably not going to be in town, even if i was i'd have to be at work, which is more important in my opinion.

as far as the voter stuff, i never registered. on the letter they said they obtain your info from dmv records and voting registration. 

now if i had nothing to do, i'd probably go for it. but i have more important shit to do, not to mention they're telling you that you have to go. go or be fined? fuck that. 

just wanted to know if anyone got it, didn't do anything about it, and got in trouble for it..


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## Angela (Sep 27, 2009)

I've been wondering about this. I've still got a North Carolina ID but have been out of state for awhile now. How does someone even know if they've been summoned if they've been out of state for awhile and don't have a physical address?


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 30, 2009)

if the letter is returned to sender then the name is removed from the roll.

as to china not being capitalistic i guess i should clairify: i wouldn't want to live in china as it is a communist nation, non democratic in nature, which has a horrific human rights policy and some pretty serious matriarchial issues. i don't even know why i commented on that lovely acorns you and i both have the jist on it. being that you seem to want to be real PC on china, tell us why you live here and not there?


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## Angela (Sep 30, 2009)

IBRRHOBO said:


> if the letter is returned to sender then the name is removed from the roll. as to china not being capitalistic i guess i should clairify: i wouldn't want to live in china as it is a communist nation, non democratic in nature, which has a horrific human rights policy and some pretty serious matriarchial issues. i don't even know why i commented on that lazy acorns you and i both have the jist on it. being that you seem to want to be real PC on china, tell us why you live here and not there?



Good to know that if it get's returned to sender they aren't gonna come looking for me with a warrant. But as for the rest you lost me there IBRR.


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## bote (Sep 30, 2009)

I lived in China for two years, 04-07, it's awesome.


There is a lot to love about the states, putting other places down doesn't improve it any.


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 30, 2009)

the whole comments on china track back to the beginning w/the implication that there is no meaningful voting rights there. lovely acorns stated that they have some capitalism and i suppose the upper crust in ANY society do.

bote seems to have lived there in 04 and 07. that's pretty swell and i'm sure he had a good time being that he lived there first off as a protected member of its society as he wasn't a citizen; second, he had little meaningful interaction w/the actual people there as it is a VERY closed society...the gov't ensures that the only interaction which occurs is that which reflects good upon it. i would be curious bote to hear about the graffiti on tienemen square (sp?). tell us americans how the chinese government doesn't censor the internet (they fucking hit my site 3 and 4 times a day w/a bot), tell us about the ability of the students to gather at will and protest their form of government and finally tell us how the families of those relocated for the construction of the 7 rivers dam are doing today. yeah, i'm sure that while you were there w/your family and living well that you did see a great part of china. that's the whole deal, when folks are seeing what a government wants them to see, they bring back the propaganda in the form its designed. by the way, bote, i forgot what law it is in china where you are entitled to the 1st, 4th, 5th, 8th and 14th amdendment rights. i will await your helping me. after all, i am simply an ignorant american. yeah, i really look forward to hear how the ol chinese jurisprudence works; appeal courts and all. see, it's not all sushi in the REAL china. i, too, was there attached for a 90 tour of duty to the embassy.

as to chan's statements i wonder why he isn't filming and staying in china? like the new avatar, btw.

in a nutshell china has been imprisoning christians for simply bringing and distributing the bible there for two decades. i'm not a christian so this isn't a religious morals statement. simply one item in a VERY long list of comparisons (and very off topic) of why nick should appear for jury duty if he is physically there. more on point, for those who really hate america, i ask why not just leave? and stay gone? that's the real question that begs answering. see, at the end of the day, for all the bullshit talked most folks like the ability to jump on the net at any library (or mom and dad's house), they like the free food stamps, they like cheap gas to get in the SUV that they don't talk about owning here on StP, they like to jump trains (albeit only a hundred miles), they like to be able to walk to the store w/o an AK-47, they like to be able to talk on the forum w/o being arrested [insert here countires such as china and iran where you would be arrested and quite possibly executed due to the topics discussed]. 

you will note that the last comments weren't pointed at anyone in particular; if they offend you they must apply. if they don't then you smiled just as i did when i wrote them.

yeah, for all the hatred towards america, i tell ya'll what: i'd rather be here than anywhere else.


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## oldmanLee (Sep 30, 2009)

Well,I might as well stick my nose in this one.As ya'll know,I've been off the road except for short trips for quite a while,but the one thing that I can say that still is the absolute truth is that we have it pretty damned good here.We have a choice,even if limited by the beurocacy that is strangling the hell out of our system to actually chose how we live our lives.Being a part of a jury is something I have done before,and realizing that I and a group of other people had been given the duty (yes,duty) of deciding the fate of another human being was pretty damned heavy.Yep,lost a few days of work,but as a thinking being entrusted with such a decision,what can you do but your best?This is what true freedom is about,taking resposibility for the world you hope to build,not stepping aside or trying to shuffle it off.
In closing,a little history: a long time ago,a very nice young guy spent a couple of years south of the border.On his way back north,he spent some time in a place called El Salvador.While he was there,he got to do such interesting and exciting things as hold compresses on bullet wounds,empty slop buckets in surgeries that looked like cowbarns,and generally try and keep flies off open and bandaged wounds.The people with these holes in them wern't political,the were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.This led the nice young man to decide that the US wasn't that bad,as it had acheaved the things that all the fighting was about,to wit:
You get up in the morning,and have something to eat.
You have something to do during the day that is useful.
You have a chance to do better for your kids.
You are not shot at.
Jury duty sounds like a pretty small price for those luxuries.


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## veggieguy12 (Oct 1, 2009)

IBRRHOBO said:


> ...china has been imprisoning christians for simply bringing and distributing the bible there for two decades.



I'm certainly no fan of the Chinese govt, but I'm not gonna complain about this one.
Boo fucking hoo. I'm beyond sick of people whining about "discrimination" or "oppression" because they can't preach and proselytize and convert and brainwash. They can live their beliefs, that's not suppressed; it's their outreach (to put it nicely) that is hampered (and good!) over there, just as many religious rituals are not allowed here (Rastas smoking copious amounts of weed, Jehovah's Witness or Christian Scientist parents not endangering their kids with their own nutty delusions about health or misconceptions and fears of actual science).

Religion is a god-damned racket, pun intended, and history shows that "our" lovely CIA has used religion among its arsenal of means of disruption and subversion (not that any other nations' agencies are more moral and wouldn't do same, but I don't know of the Chinese trying to push religion to get people to destabilize the govt.). Prime example: S. Korea, all the people that want the US military to remain are Christian nuts!

And just imagine if the indigenous people of N. Am. had more forcefully rejected the missionaries who arrived with a Bible in the left hand and a sword concealed behind their backs in the right hand. I wish they had...

Also, I appreciate that there isn't currently the extreme and constant repression here within US borders as people elsewhere do experience daily, but I think that's partly because the US military has subordinated other peoples in other lands for the benefit of the American ruling class. Certainly we know that Romans were better off having conquered others. We can substitute from the Wikipedia lines about that ancient state, and tell me if it doesn't hold true for the USA:
"This success depended on military conquest, commercial predominance, as well as selective assimilation of neighbouring civilisations, most notably the Etruscans and Greeks."

...Which is why you should be in that jury, clearly!


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## bote (Oct 1, 2009)

IBRRHOBO said:


> in a nutshell china has been imprisoning christians for simply bringing and distributing the bible there for two decades.



total bullshit. There are major christian organizations operating in China, as well as public churches with people doing the whole kneeling, contemplating, praying thing, or attending services, or irreligious people like me just going in now and again to get out of the crowds.

To briefly set the record straight, I went to China by myself on a 125$ plane ticket, with about a grand of labourready dough in my pocket, I stayed there two years by hustling however I could, taking care of all my own visa paperwork, and yes, in that time I was hassled more than once by secret police, in the library, on the phone, I was arrested on a job I was doing in central china in a restricted military zone, and taken to a compound where I was held and questioned by mps, finally had to write a full "confession", old school style. Got the old lightbulb in the face treatment in Langzhou too, arrested for trying to register at a hotel with no passport, questioned many hours, full confession, yada yada yada. My daily life there was doing whatever kind of work I could, most of the time that meant being a bitch for some company or other, most of them local, some of them not, most of the time I didn't work, just hung out on the streets with my friends. So I think I'm in some limited way aware of life there (probably a lot more so than somebody travelling ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S DIME, ON A TRIP ORGANIZED BY A HOSTILE GOVERNMENT BODY), but when all's said and done, life didn't strike me as overall better or worse there, people are people. 

I reckon I read more chinadigitaltimes and newsfeeds on China and things china-related than all of you put together, so please spare me the analysis of current socio-economic climate, because here it is:

these days China is villified in western media because they are getting a bigger piece of the pie, which scares those who have been stuffing their faces for so long. 



veggieguy said:


> Also, I appreciate that there isn't currently the extreme and constant repression here within US borders as people elsewhere do experience daily



are you fucking kidding me? I get hassled by cops and the state in some form or other way more in the north than anywhere else, that's just part of having a highly developed infrastructure. 

Again, not denigrating the USA, just can't stand hearing people regurgitate media paranoia. 

The north has more food and more access to health and education- that's what's better about it. But how we got these things has very little to do with the creation or existence of a "righteous" political system. A lot of what is good about the states exists despite the system, it shouldn't be so hard to imagine that life works that way other places too.


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## IBRRHOBO (Oct 1, 2009)

veggieguy we agree here, but for different reasons. i'm a jew. one needs no justification why i am no fan of christianity. it was simply the first thought that came to mind. i still remember when some families came to the consulate where i was detached. it just boggled my mind that someone could be imprisioned for transporting a bible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/17/china-takes-away-bibles-f_n_119407.html fairly recent example of being detained when entering legally and bibles confiscated. most of the smuggling occurs via Hong Kong. doesn't matter either way. i'll stand corrected i guess as to your view of china. i simply subtracted five years (which would make 2004) from an approximate age of 22 (i don't know your exact age) and came up w/17 and figured you'd been there w/your folks. ironic how you might consider china 'awesome' after being interrogated w/o an attorney. perhaps we oughta start a new thread though as this is all way off jury dut. (moderator should call this shot)


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## bote (Oct 1, 2009)

yeah, it is ironic, but I also consider Southern California "awesome", where I've been thrown on the ground, handcuffed, illegaly searched then threatened with rape by cops in broad daylight in a hardware store parking lot, then treated to several months of legal circus, where they decided that I could either spend a bunch of time and money to argue my word against three lying cops, or accept that I'd been "disturbing the peace" and pay a hundred dollar fine. I repeat, I was walking across a hardware store parking lot, after spending a morning busting concrete with a steel pole, which is about as honest a day's work as I've been known to do.
I don't judge a place by their law enforcement, their self-professed kings, or by what other people say about it, I judge it by how people seem to be living there, how they treat each other and me.

What I said about knowing more about China media than all of you, pure assholishness and certainly untrue.

as for that Huffington post article, and I quote:

"Klein said the customs officers had told him that they could each have one Bible for personal use, but no more than that."

so at least in this case, the problem isn't their personal beliefs, it's that they are trying to bring in 300 bibles
Bringing 300 of anything over the border is always liable to scrutiny, plus it says that this took place during the Olympics, when everybody's on high alert as it is. 

"oh no officer, they're for personal use, I swear"

Fuck'em, they should take a look at what this foreign country has to offer hem, not spend their time trying to hawk their own corrupt ideology.

HAHA! I am Chinese internet propagandist!!!!!!


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## RideMoreTrains (Oct 1, 2009)

> like censorship? like persecution? or perhaps try russia.


Russia sounds to nice I need something more brutal.... say like, N. Korea.

You think you can get me expatriated there? America is way to free!


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## nick (Oct 1, 2009)

thread lost


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## IBRRHOBO (Oct 2, 2009)

bah ha ha! yeah, nick it has been hijacked! yeah, i was kinda wanting to check out ol kim jong 'mentally' il's little paradise, too!

yeah, i agree there bote. i just don't like communist countries. narrowmindedness on my part.


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## bote (Oct 2, 2009)

sorry Nick, IBRR, veggie. got carried away.... 

But anyways, do you think the chinese internet police have picked up on this thread yet? I read guardian online, and they swarm the comments anytime there's a China article, maybe we can get our own over here, maybe we can get them to do your jury duty for you Nick. Surrogate communist jurors are the future.


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## IBRRHOBO (Oct 5, 2009)

shit, my site is a nobody site and they swarm it daily. i'd bet they have a clue.

never be sorry there bote; look thru some of my and veggieguy's retorts! bah ha ha, you'd of thought we were the US and USSR back in the cold war days! that's the beauty of debate, the expression of opposing ideals to allow others to make an educated decision.


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