# Jay/Rhubarb Dwyer/Snorting Nitrons



## croc (Mar 2, 2020)

Jay/Rhubarb Dwyer/Snorting Nitrons is a predator.

Jay made his own discord with some ppl from squat the planet and a few others who are interested in travel. He's taken on a mentor role for them, most of which are teenagers and early 20 somethings.

The youngest person I've known him to be involved with is/was 19 while Jay was 45 and I'd tried to talk to him multiple times about how it's not okay for him to be fucking w anyone w a "teen" in their age. Every time he blew it off with just "okay" or acted like I was being judgemental.

He takes on this mentor role and encourages young ppl to go travel, which would be rad if he wasn't also trynna get w ppl who are like fuckin 19-22 and haven't left home.

Before he and I had ever hooked up I had expressed I didn't want him to go down on me. Clear, coherent conversation. Then when we hooked up he just went for it anyway. I didn't consider this fucked up at the time bc I didn't say "no" again in the moment but nah, fuck that disrespectful shit.

We stopped being friends bc he flipped out on me for "ditching him for some dude in the subway" (I wanted to hang out with my friend, he didn't, so we went separate ways for the night n agreed to meet up in the am). I woke up to hella name calling, jealous texts from him n told him to fuck off. We're not friends anymore and I'm not "yours". And told him to not talk to me at jambo.

Fast-forward to jambo, he tries to talk to me, I say hi and turn away, obviously not wanting to engage n just exist separately in the communal space.

The last night of jambo I'm busking and a group of stp ppl are hangin right nearby. I get cold and go to put leggings on under my pants. So I go behind an electrical box so I'm out of view of the street. It was still in view of the stp ppl if they were to look over to the side at me. And guess who watched me fucking get changed that I'd made it very clear I don't fuck w?
Jay.

Here's screenshots of him admitting fuckin w a 19 year old and blowing off my "that's not okay" and further examples of his whole ~mentor~ of young ppl thing.


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## snailormoon (Mar 2, 2020)

Well, here goes.

He contacted me through the main campfire on discord to join his own discord server. We would talk every night, and he seemed really awesome. Eventually I decided to travel with him after the 2019 Jambo in NOLA. I had never before been on the road, and he seemed to want to be a sort of mentor to me. This has been a pattern with a lot of young female bodied people that he talks to via discord and StP.

I traveled with Jay from November to late January of this year. It's taken me a while to come to terms with the fact that his behavior was problematic, especially in a sexual sense. I lived literally 2 feet away from him in my small sedan for almost three months straight. During that time, I dealt with being constantly objectified, groped, and made to feel uncomfortable.

Yes, I did willingly have sex with him on multiple occasions, but just because someone wants to have sex sometimes doesn't mean that they want to all the time! And I ended up very much regretting ever engaging sexually with him, because he used it as "proof" that I always wanted it.

On many occasions I woke up to him masturbating right next to me. And on other occasions he did ask if he could do so next to me, but I felt incredibly pressured to say yes, mostly due to how irritable/pissy he'd get when I denied him. Mostly I would turn away and look out the window, and sometimes cry. I never felt like he cared about my discomfort. I remember him once saying (while jacking off in the driver's seat) "the least you can do is look at me." He also violated and disrespected my personal belongings by ejaculating in my socks and other clothing items.

I could never change my clothes without him groping me or making sexual comments.

The screenshots I'm posting are a discussion between him and I about an incident where both of us were very drunk, and I reluctantly engaged in sex with him. A friend of ours walked in, and I snapped back into reality and thought "wow I really don't want to be doing this." After that, I was very upset the rest of the night, but Jay insisted that I was very into it. The next day we were both supposed to go to the DMV, and he was in the bathroom, which had a small window connected to the porch where I was. He was taking a long time so I called him multiple times to be like "hey are you ready to go" and heard no response, so I came to up the window to be like, "hey we need to go, are you pooping or something?" He was standing there looking at his phone and closed the window on me (which I wasn't upset about, I mean I walked up on him while he was in the potty.) But minutes later he opened the window and called me over and just stared at me. The lower half of his body was out of sight but I could see a jerking motion. I asked what he was doing, and he said "I don't think you wanna know." Needless to say, I was upset about it. He straight up called me over to talk to him while he was jacking off with the window open in a house that had two teenagers around.

I know this post is long, but I feel like writing this is a way of coming to terms with the fact that I don't have to put up with men doing this shit around me anymore. Fuck older male travellers preying on young afab travellers.


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## Deleted member 125 (Mar 2, 2020)

Thank you @croc and @snailormoon for being strong enough to call this person out. 

The staff obviously takes this kind of shit extremely seriously (more so if that's even possible since it involves other stp members). This is unacceptable behavior.

I want everyone who reads this thread to understand that yall have a voice and to please, fucking please speak up against this type of predatory behavior. There are no excuses for this shit and everytime I hear about another instance of something like this happening in the travel community it really breaks my heart.


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## iamwhatiam (Mar 2, 2020)

I don't know any of the people involved and I am not trying to excuse his behavior in any way just to be clear. It sounds like he has problems with respecting boundaries for sure there.....but someone way older fucking a 19 year old, doesn't automatically make them a predator. If both parties are mature enough, understand the differences that come with an age gap, and are not trying to exploit each other, I think it's fine.

I've met 40 year olds who are immature as fuck, and I've met 18 year olds who are mature beyond their years. I'm 35 but I have a friend who is 19. We both have a lot in common, we like each other's company, he's a great guy.... I care about him a lot. Never once have I tried to pressure him into anything but we have fooled around some. I don't think that makes me a predator. Age is just a number.

But yeah....someone who seeks out younger people in order to exploit their inexperience and naivety is a douche. I'm sorry you had to put up with that kind of crap. I've been with people before like that who are pushy or make me feel bad for not wanting to have sex or watch them jerk off, and it's just disgusting behavior.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Mar 3, 2020)

I sincerely agree with Skankylanky's sentiment for calling this individual out, as I read this last night and all I could do was sit there and stare at the words on the screen....

Abuse comes in many forms, and unfortunately when alcohol - especially large amounts - is involved, people tend to at a minimum let their guard down and lose the inhibitions, and on the other hand, it can make people act out in ways they normally might not have, especially if there is a huge difference in age and if one can sense the other may be fragile....

I'm a little older, coming up on 55 but to me age is not just a number, with age should come wisdom, and this includes knowing not to exploit younger individuals who may or may not be in trouble... in fact, one should not even have to consider such a notion, it should be automatic instinct that you don't do these kinds of things from a moral, ethical, and human standpoint.

That being said, I don't think there is anyone who hasn't at least thought about it, or as the poster above iamwhatiam stated fooled around some, but the sign of knowing right from wrong is to not let it escalate to a point where one or the other is uncomfortable, that to me immoral beyond words.

I've had some very bad things happen to me when I was younger, in the mid 1970s... when I was about 10 years old, maybe between 11 - 12... but lucky for me I was able to chalk that up to stupid kids [older than me] doing stupid things and I was able to walk away from it to where I had/have no emotional scars BUT one thing I also did was immediately find a new scene, because I knew those kids were trouble.

I can't even begin to imagine what it was like for the two individuals who came forward here, it sounds like a living nightmare, and I sincerely hope that in time you will both heal and be able to move forward.


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## snailormoon (Mar 3, 2020)

iamwhatiam said:


> I don't know any of the people involved and I am not trying to excuse his behavior in any way just to be clear. It sounds like he has problems with respecting boundaries for sure there.....but someone way older fucking a 19 year old, doesn't automatically make them a predator. If both parties are mature enough, understand the differences that come with an age gap, and are not trying to exploit each other, I think it's fine.
> 
> I've met 40 year olds who are immature as fuck, and I've met 18 year olds who are mature beyond their years. I'm 35 but I have a friend who is 19. We both have a lot in common, we like each other's company, he's a great guy.... I care about him a lot. Never once have I tried to pressure him into anything but we have fooled around some. I don't think that makes me a predator. Age is just a number.
> 
> But yeah....someone who seeks out younger people in order to exploit their inexperience and naivety is a douche. I'm sorry you had to put up with that kind of crap. I've been with people before like that who are pushy or make me feel bad for not wanting to have sex or watch them jerk off, and it's just disgusting behavior.



I don't think that the age gap between us was inherently the problem at all. I usually date people much older than me, and I don't think age is a limiting factor in sexual relationships/partnerships. 
The reason that age was mentioned was mostly because exclusively targeting people that are much younger in order to exploit their inexperience is shady as heck and gross. But I totally understand what you're saying.


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## croc (Mar 4, 2020)

To be clear, I don't think a large age difference is inherently wrong or predatory. And I'm saying this as someone who's often w ppl a fair amount older than me. My issue with what's been going on is that the ppl he's been going for have a hell of a lot less life experience/wisdom/insight and he's assuming a mentor roll, which is a power dynamic, while trying to get w them, while also not caring about thoroughly respecting their boundaries. Even when mine were clearly stated. Even when snail was visibly uncomfortable. And then when we confront him on things he basically gaslights us into thinking we're wrong/crazy/over reacting/being judgemental. 

Multiple times I said to him "dude I was 19 not that many years ago. I remember what it was like and u think u understand things u don't actually understand yet/ It's very easy to be taken advantage of by older folks and not even know its happening/ I don't think they can fully consent when u understand things so much differently than them". But bc he thinks he's different than that, he thinks that's not what he's doing. And has been given multiple chances to talk out and evaluate his behavior. 

I also think a 19-22 year old who's been traveling for a few years has a much different amount of experience and judgment making skills than one who's not left home. If the folks he was going for were seasoned travelers who sometimes were a good deal younger, I'd consider it more of a gray area than this.


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## Deleted member 20 (Mar 4, 2020)

I dunno folks. I feel obligated to express some concerns around this situation. From my reading of this we have two consenting adults involved in a romantic relationship that are also living, traveling & routinely getting drunk together. It does not sound like a healthy relationship & perhaps Jay could have been a better partner but I just do not see this being untrustworthy or abusive. There is certainly nothing illegal occurring.



snailormoon said:


> I traveled with Jay from November to late January of this year. It's taken me a while to come to terms with the fact that his behavior was problematic, especially in a sexual sense. I lived literally 2 feet away from him in my small sedan for almost three months straight. During that time, I dealt with being constantly objectified, groped, and made to feel uncomfortable.
> 
> Yes, I did willingly have sex with him on multiple occasions, but just because someone wants to have sex sometimes doesn't mean that they want to all the time! And I ended up very much regretting ever engaging sexually with him, because he used it as "proof" that I always wanted it.
> 
> On many occasions I woke up to him masturbating right next to me. And on other occasions he did ask if he could do so next to me, but I felt incredibly pressured to say yes, mostly due to how irritable/pissy he'd get when I denied him. Mostly I would turn away and look out the window, and sometimes cry. I never felt like he cared about my discomfort. I remember him once saying (while jacking off in the driver's seat) "the least you can do is look at me." He also violated and disrespected my personal belongings by ejaculating in my socks and other clothing items.





SlankyLanky said:


> I want everyone who reads this thread to understand that yall have a voice and to please, fucking please speak up against this type of predatory behavior



I feel my above position is clear but must reaffirm my position above because of this statement. I would expect the mods to be better at seeing both sides of this consenting arrangement and be empathetic but also not condemn the accused based on such clear & conflicting evidence.

This situation does not qualify as predatory! 

Jay was invited by another adult to travel & live in a vehicle together who routinely dates older men & had a willing sexual relationship with said partner during this time? I think that any other adult in such a relationship would deduce that a romantic relationship is occurring far beyond the platonic norms of fellow travelers/friends exists. Obvious past & ongoing sexual activity while allowing Jay to be a passenger & road dawg seems to reinforce this. I assume that much was shared during these months. To state that he disrespected your socks while living in such close proximity & probably sharing many undisclosed resources seems petty. To be masturbating in private in a bathroom or car that is being shared by a sexual partner, may seem gross to imagine but is it wrong? Illegal?

The cumulative post breakup evidence is more cautionary to future sexual/romantic partners then it speaks to future travel mentors/road dawgs or friends of Jay. I was invited to that alt-discord group & I am not young, female, inexperienced or naive.

As to any predatory behavior or pattern, I just do not see it. I think traveling alone can & does get lonely regardless of ones age. Most road dawgs never work out long term but are good for a spell. Its just as lonely for a 19 year old as it is for a 40 something.

Hindsight is 20/20 but also a great teacher and I think in order for legal adults to have healthy relationships where they need to establish healthy boundaries & communicate with each other. Being uncomfortable with your choices & communicating them are not the same. Repeating those uncomfortable behavior choices simply reinforces them to be acceptable to your partner.

While @croc may be supportive here in this thread this statement is his sole opinion. It could also be argued by many 19-20+ yos in disagreement as well as legally.


croc said:


> I don't think they can fully consent


If someone is legally old enough to smoke, drive, vote, buy firearms, fireworks, travel overseas, join/serve in the military etc they are old enough to choose whom they travel with, allows in their vehicle, has sex with or doesnt.

It seems that there were ample months of opportunity where jay could have been kicked out of the car & had this romantic relationship ended. To state that being a traveling mentor is a 'power dynamic of "life experience/wisdom/insight". Could the shoe on the other foot also be considered an equal "power dynamic" with Jay being the passenger of another adults vehicle where they live? Once the relationship ceased being platonic & became seaxual/romantic in nature; then the dynamic became just that. Two fully consenting adults.

There appears to be no smoking gun or actual evidence supporting predatory & abusive claims given what was said here by @snailormoon or @croc


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 6, 2020)

highwayman said:


> I dunno folks. I feel obligated to express some concerns around this situation. From my reading of this we have two consenting adults involved in a romantic relationship that are also living, traveling & routinely getting drunk together. It does not sound like a healthy relationship & perhaps Jay could have been a better partner but I just do not see this being untrustworthy or abusive. There is certainly nothing illegal occurring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the biggest problem i have with @highwayman's _extremely _flawed argument is that it completely ignores the multiple instances of consent that were violated here in painfully obvious ways. not just once or twice, but _multiple _occasions in which Jay was asked not to do things such as masturbate in front of them, in their car, or ejaculate onto their clothing. How @highwayman managed to ignore this in his argument is frankly, beyond comprehension and extremely disappointing.

the lack of consent in the situations described is _more _than enough to warrant this thread being posted.


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## Deleted member 20 (Mar 6, 2020)

Ok. Fair enough @Matt Derrick ,my larger argument was to reject the accusations of predatory behavior based on what was written. I don't see clear patterns of solicitation & or desire to prey on others, to abuse them & take advantage of them sexually or otherwise.

Mutual consent is required for each instance of sexual behavior. Regardless if he had permission to live in the vehicle & occasionally have sexual intercourse with, did not give him the right to do what ever he wanted, when ever he wanted. He should have been respecting the people & property of others he was traveling, living with and or being romantic with. He seems to be a real shitty partner. This and not respecting boundaries may be enough to be named in this section. I personally don't agree that the threshold has been met to publicly name him as a predator/abuser.

My fear with all posts in this section is that accusations can lead to the retaliatory violence that is often imposed by fellow travelers who read between the lines & act as the judge, jury & punisher on behalf of others. I see @Rhubarb Dwyer is still an active member here on the site so i will not act as his defense counsel. He hasnt attempted to repair his reputation here in this thread so neither will I.


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## croc (Mar 6, 2020)

@highwayman did u miss the part where he was CUMMING into her socks?? Not just like he touched her socks without permission but was using them as sexual objects without consent? Did u miss the part where I told him I didn't want him to go down on me, told him that with those words, and he did it anyway? 

And "legally"? Really???? Is everything that is legal ethical or moral? Fuck no. Laws do not abide by ethics. 

U ever heard of a teacher waiting until their student is 18 to fuck em? U think that's okay just bc they suddenly had made 18 rotations around the sun? The power dynamic of a teacher n student doesn't matter because the LAW says the student is now magically an adult and on equal playing field as the teacher?


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## snailormoon (Mar 6, 2020)

highwayman said:


> I dunno folks. I feel obligated to express some concerns around this situation. From my reading of this we have two consenting adults involved in a romantic relationship that are also living, traveling & routinely getting drunk together. It does not sound like a healthy relationship & perhaps Jay could have been a better partner but I just do not see this being untrustworthy or abusive. There is certainly nothing illegal occurring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really didnt know what to say to this at first...
But I would like to make it clear that Jay and I were never in a partnership/romantic relationship. And I'm also very confused as to how someone jizzing in my socks without my consent isn't wrong? Like I mentioned before, it took me a while to realize that what I was experiencing was fucked up. It took time to realize that he has no right to make me feel uncomfortable and barely care about my boundaries. It took me having a couple of breakdowns to finally stop him from touching my ass at every chance possible...Yes, I could have spoken up more clearly in a lot of instances. But Jay also could have NOT DONE THAT CLEARLY MESSED UP SHIT. Isn't that how these things work though? A person doesn't speak up because they feel like they'll be chastised, or that it's all in their head? Especially someone like myself who has been manipulated and gaslighted in the past, and who has had issues with standing up for themselves (which he knew about) might be more prone to putting up with this shit for longer? 

He tried to act like he was protecting me and "showing me that men can be okay." 

My whole experience with him was not negative. We got along fairly well and at many times had a lot of fun. And yeah, in the begining I was flirtatious. But it got really confusing and uncomfortable real fast. We had some good adventures. But I can tell you that by the end of it, I was fucking miserable.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Mar 6, 2020)

Hold on though,* Matt Derrick*... I get what you are saying but to my surprise.... there's a couple of people posting here who were involved and who were ok with certain parameters of the situation as described which I personally - not judging - I personally was not comfortable with, and in light of this/that I too started to question if anything was really done wrong by the so called predator.
Yes, he's a pervert - but........... 
I mean, was anyone held at gun point here ???
While it's obvious that there are some that don't like what *highwayman has presented, it can't be ignored either.
I'm sure I will be judged quite harshly for what I have just stated as well.*


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 7, 2020)

OTTERWOLF said:


> I'm sure I will be judged quite harshly for what I have just stated as well.



don't get me wrong, you've been great on StP since you signed up, so i'm not attacking you, i would just like to suggest that if you think you already know people are going to disagree with you then there might be a reason for that worth self-evaluating.



Juan Derlust said:


> This forum is to advise members regarding untrustworthy and/or shady people - *not* a legal review of someone's actions.





Juan Derlust said:


> but they were advising each other and their friends about who to watch out for in certain situations



agreed, it's not a court of law, but an advisory of who to steer clear of.



Juan Derlust said:


> Jay can always respond, rebut, or otherwise explain his truth regarding these events here. Or not.



I am allowing a limited window in which his account isn't being banned to respond here but I don't think it's going to happen.



highwayman said:


> my larger argument was to reject the accusations of predatory behavior based on what was written. I don't see clear patterns of solicitation & or desire to prey on others, to abuse them & take advantage of them sexually or otherwise.



not sure if you saw the part about starting a discord and intentionally putting themselves into a position of power of people that haven't traveled before and then getting upset when they don't hook up with them? i'm sure here it sounds like one person's opinion over another, but maybe some other folks from that discord could chime in about anything that didn't seem on the up and up. also, maybe there's nothing to it, who knows. despite that, i still think there's enough here to warrant a thread telling people to avoid this person.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Mar 7, 2020)

*Matt Derrick, you are right on the money.... as this morning that's exactly what I was thinking too.

But, sometimes I almost feel compelled to state something even if it's going against the grain if I feel it needs to be brought up, or at least considered...

I actually do put a lot of thought into everything I comment upon here, and sometimes it's not unusual for me to take a different stance and see things from a different perspective as time goes on, which I think is a healthy perspective.

To me, the most important thing is that the two individuals who were deeply affected by this matter, are now safe and sound.

Cheers Everybody......

Big George + Loki the Dog*


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## Dameon (Mar 7, 2020)

OTTERWOLF said:


> Yes, he's a pervert - but...........
> I mean, was anyone held at gun point here ???


"It doesn't count unless it's at gunpoint" is kind of setting a pretty high bar for actionable bad behaviour.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Mar 7, 2020)

*Dameon, you're right - I forgot that things can be taken literal on line.... what I was trying to convey was the people involved could have I would think - I would hope - just gotten out of or left this bad situation behind and split.
I know for myself, if something is not cool I am out.
I don't hang around, I up and leave.

What I was trying to convey which went horribly wrong like everything else I've been posting as of late was that I was under the assumption that they could have just left if it was so horrible - or gotten rid of him, if he was on their turf.

That's all......*


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## Deleted member 28239 (Mar 7, 2020)

Kinda hate that this is going to be my first post here, but for the record, agreeing to sex because you're scared of what will happen if you say no is not consent. Being quiet while someone jacks off to you and hoping that they'll leave you alone after is not consent.

Women are often taught that if we try to do anything alone we'll get attacked by bands of roaming rapist-murderers, and that we need to find "the good men" to protect us. So the thought process is often "well this creep is jacking off to me, but it's better than getting dragged out of my sleeping bag and raped by a complete stranger." This doesnt apply to just travelling. Almost all of my friends growing up got into some kind of coercive relationship with older men, and didnt realize how fucked up the situation was until they got much older. Predators know this, and abuse it. For any young women reading this thread, you're perfectly capable of learning on your own and defending yourself. You don't need to find a male mentor.

Another thing, predators defend predators. Everyone in this thread trying to justify this creeps actions has been alive long enough to understand why it's wrong. I'd caution people to use responses in this thread as another indicator of who else to away from.


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## Dameon (Mar 7, 2020)

OTTERWOLF said:


> *What I was trying to convey which went horribly wrong like everything else I've been posting as of late was that I was under the assumption that they could have just left if it was so horrible - or gotten rid of him, if he was on their turf.*


Unfortunately, life is not that simple. "If it was so bad she should've just left" is not a valid excuse for consent, or for bad behavior. They may not have the perception that they can leave; they may have a certain level of fear or emotional instability that makes it difficult. They may think that they aren't able to leave. Especially for females, the idea that you can just "walk away" is not always valid.

No offense, but you're blaming the victims. You're painting it like the problem wasn't the guy performing sexual acts to/around them without their consent, but that the problem was that they didn't remove themselves from the situation.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Mar 7, 2020)

*I think now is a good time for me to pull the plug here on STP, because I'm at a point where I can no longer contribute anything without it going wrong*

I'm not blaming the victims.
I'm just stating that the victims should have gotten away from this individual asap.

And yes, before you ask - between age 11 and 12, I had some shit happen to me which essentially constituted rape, but I doubt that would mean anything here.

I solved that problem by avoiding those kids from that moment on.

So, this is it for me.
Cast all the stones you want.


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## Dameon (Mar 7, 2020)

OTTERWOLF said:


> *I think now is a good time for me to pull the plug here on STP, because I'm at a point where I can no longer contribute anything without it going wrong*


That's an unfortunate decision...I'm not trying to attack you; in our culture victim blaming is so built in that it's easy to do without realizing it. Rather than feeling attacked, you could take it as a learning moment. You could also avoid these kinds of controversial threads where emotions run high and it can be a little like walking through a minefield.


OTTERWOLF said:


> I'm not blaming the victims.
> I'm just stating that the victims should have gotten away from this individual asap.


That is literally blaming the victims. Instead of focusing on the fact that this individual shouldn't have been doing these things, you're focusing on the fact that the victims didn't get away from him quickly enough. How quickly they should have gotten away from him is irrelevant to his shitty behavior. If somebody's in an abusive situation and, rather than criticizing the abuser, you criticize the abused person, you're implying that the blame rests with the one being abused, or at least that they share some amount of blame.


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## roughdraft (Mar 7, 2020)

ok one more time and i'm leaving this alone: this isn't too tough a psycho-analytic nut to crack folks... the testimonies indicate that the guy has got rapist tendencies, i don't see room for debate.. i imagine myself in the position of croc or snailor as mentioned and it's pretty damn clear. what a fucktard to do the things illustrated itt, does anyone wanna say it doesnt qualify as "shady/untrustworthy"?

if you wanna split hairs on what it means to be "predatory" then have a ball, all i know is that if i ask someone not to do something, especially something intimate, and they do it anyway that's violating my person. and since that's just one component of the story here, I don't see how this is a case to wax philosophical on.

and for sure people should air each other's behavior out on this forum, when it comes to this. You got one life to live (for all intents and purposes) nobody needs to get caught up with people who do shit like this


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## croc (Mar 8, 2020)

@OTTERWOLF someone doesn't have to hold u down to constitute sexual abuse or misconduct. I'm honestly so disgusted with how ur trynna act like it's so easy to see what's happening in the moment when ur used to being taken advantage of and have trusted this person.

I'm sorry for what happened to u as a kid. I'm happy for u that u had the strength to stay away from them after. But I think these situations are really different bc those "kids" weren't someone 20 years older than u, when ur frontal lobe isn't fully developed (decision making skills haven't fully developed) and they've lived a life twice as long as urs. They tell u that they love u. They show u that they care about u. They earn ur trust. Then disregard boundaries. A lot of us freeze up in times of abuse. Sometimes neither fight nor flight come in to play.

I've been raped before and before that happened I'd been sexually assaulted. After being assaulted I swore to myself I'd never let anyone do anything to me that I didn't want. And then I was full on raped (by someone I'd befriended and who'd earned my trust) and I froze for a couple minutes instead of running immediately.

U don't know what you'd do in a situation until ur in it. I hope u never experience this and I hope that if u do, u look back on this thread and realize firsthand what we're talking about.

I had to give a well spoken reply first but out of respect for myself and snail I must include: fuck u and ur victim blaming bullshit.


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## croc (Mar 8, 2020)

@Yody I entirely respect and agree with what u shared about the experiences of women (I was raised as a girl). But let's expand that bc both me and the 19 year old he's been targeting are guys. And sexual abuse of men isn't talked about enough.

His preference is afab folks but not limited to cis women.


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## WyldLyfe (Mar 8, 2020)

Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit, you tell them your going to do something, you go off and you don't come back, if his in your car, you say something to get him out of the car and take him somewhere away from it or something, like into a shop ex: "hey were gonna get food, come" then lose him in there go back to the car and leave, even if you have to dump someone on the side of the freeway in the middle of woop woop at midnight. I know Snailer is new to travel, hopefully you use this as a learning experience and don't let it stop you from travel and living free.


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## Matt Derrick (Mar 8, 2020)

WyldLyfe said:


> Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit, you tell them your going to do something, you go off and you don't come back, if his in your car, you say something to get him out of the car and take him somewhere away from it or something, like into a shop ex: "hey were gonna get food, come" then lose him in there go back to the car and leave, even if you have to dump someone on the side of the freeway in the middle of woop woop at midnight. I know Snailer is new to travel, hopefully you use this as a learning experience and don't let it stop you from travel and living free.



Okay, so while not directly involved in this situation, I feel like as part of the staff of StP I need to step in here and say a few things.

First off, we don't need any more posts about "you should have done this" or "you should have done that". I know you think you're helping, but you're not. You weren't present in the situation, and telling victims what they should or should not have done is victim blaming, plain and simple. Victim blaming also makes the perpertrator's actions _acceptable _by completely ignoring the fact that they should not have been done, *no matter what the victims reactions were*.

It's the classic, "she shouldn't have been wearing that dress in a dark alley" scenario. That statement ignores the fact that, in a ideal society, someone of any gender *should *be able to go wherever they want presenting however they want with the expectation of _*not *_being raped/beaten/killed.

"But Matt, we live in the real world, not some utopia!" While true, we need to stand up for the kind of world we want to live in, not the kind of world where people have to hide themselves in fear of retaliation. By not calling it out and laying blame to the victims (by telling them what they should have done) you're are conveying the message that the violence against those individuals was acceptable.

"But Matt, I honestly don't think those actions were cool, i just think they should--" Then shut the fuck up. Take a step back. Listen to their side of things without trying to pass judgment on it and just accept that is their truth. Remember, _you weren't there_, so shut the fuck up, listen, and support them however you can.

As all posts to this section of the forums is heavily moderated, any further victim blaming 'advice' is going to be rejected from this thread from here on. It's not productive and I'm tired of it.


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## Deleted member 24782 (Mar 8, 2020)

What is the end game here? As most STP members are acting autonomously are we all supposed to agree that Jay Rhubarb guy is in fact a sexual predator and treat him as such? Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life. As with most call outs I've watched unfold (since 2003 or so) the accused simply gets hostile, write offs the community, and moves onto different social circles. Not much for a resolution or real social justice. In my opinion internet call out's do little for creating/maintaining supposed safe spaces and rather act as a direct agent in community ruin.


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## croc (Mar 8, 2020)

WyldLyfe said:


> Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit....



WE ARE NOT ALL LADIES, READ THE FUCKING PREVIOUS COMMENTS IF U WANNA ADD UR TWO CENTS.

Some education for those of u that think vagina = woman or don't put thought into how non women get taken advantage of: we are out here. We exist and we experience abuse too. Me and the 19 year old mentioned are both guys. 

"It could have been worse?" are u kidding???????? 
What the fuck part of ur narrow brain thought that was a good idea to say or did u not even think about it? 

Ur comment absolutely disgusts me. 

I don't care how fucked this is to say- I hope some awful shit happens to u by someone u trusted and loved and that u freeze up and realize firsthand it's not always that easy. Especially when the person is manipulating ur emotions and u don't realize what's happening at first. That is ESPECIALLY WHY I CALL THIS PREDATORY. A teenager or early 20 something is way less likely to realize that they're being taken advantage of by someone 20+ years their elder who's told u they love u n care about u n wanna help u. This isn't some stranger attacking u. It's way different, way sneakier.


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## Deleted member 125 (Mar 9, 2020)

Brodiesel710 said:


> What is the end game here?



I dunno, maybe to give a heads up to people who might not have otherwise known of this persons behavior. Like ya know "stay away from this guy hes not exactly a cool fellow". I can't speak for anyone else but possibly preventing further assaults would I guess be a good end game. So I'll go with that.



Brodiesel710 said:


> Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life.



As of me writing this, this user isn't banned and has just as much opportunity to defend himself as his victims had to out him, although i doubt hes gonna bother to do so. So would you prefer that when somebody does something fucked up in this community we just ignore it and dont address it because someone's life could be negatively impacted? Just kinda ignore the people he hurt and worry more about something potentially happening to Jay in the future as a result of his actions?



Brodiesel710 said:


> In my opinion internet call out's do little for creating/maintaining supposed safe spaces and rather act as a direct agent in community ruin.



Do i really have to get into why what happend to these 2 people isnt exactly positive when it comes to community building and how addressing that this shit is unacceptable is important?


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## Dmac (Mar 9, 2020)

So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.
@highwayman, you have kids don’t you? Would you still be okay with it if he was trying this with your kid when they hit their teen years?


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## Deleted member 28239 (Mar 9, 2020)

croc said:


> @Yody I entirely respect and agree with what u shared about the experiences of women (I was raised as a girl). But let's expand that bc both me and the 19 year old he's been targeting are guys. And sexual abuse of men isn't talked about enough.
> 
> His preference is afab folks but not limited to cis women.



I'm sorry for assuming, you're absolutely correct. What I said applies to anyone in the more "vulnerable" position. I was mainly trying to point out why its not as simple as walking away from the situation. Thank you for clarifying so people can be aware. And thank you for speaking up, some of the reactions and comments you're getting are probably painful but you're doing the right thing and possibly saving someone in the future.


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## Coywolf (Mar 9, 2020)

Brodiesel710 said:


> Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life.





SlankyLanky said:


> As of me writing this, this user isn't banned and has just as much opportunity to defend himself as his victims had to out him, although i doubt hes gonna bother to do so.




*For anyone saying that we need to hear both sides of the story, that opportunity has been presented, multiple times, by multiple people. 

So that should not cast any doubt on the obvious disrespectful, unacceptable behavior that was exhibited by a seasoned traveler that not only KNOWS these actions are not ok, but preaches that they are not OK to younger travelers, and who claims to be a person who speaks up when behavior like this is committed.*


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## croc (Mar 9, 2020)

Dmac said:


> So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.
> @highwayman, you have kids don’t you? Would you still be okay with it if he was trying this with your kid when they hit their teen years?



I was wondering the same bc I thoughthighwayman had mentioned having kids before. 

To clarify about the discord, a lot of the ppl in there are teens or early 20s but not exclusively.


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## Dmac (Mar 9, 2020)

Thanks for the clarification @croc , but it’s still creepy behavior


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## blank (Mar 10, 2020)

Dmac said:


> So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.


I don't think it was quite like that. Seems to have been more he invited people just on the basis of them not being annoying while the STP Discord was overrun by teenagers. We mostly made (grey) poopuns.


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## snailormoon (Mar 10, 2020)

blank said:


> I don't think it was quite like that. Seems to have been more he invited people just on the basis of them not being annoying while the STP Discord was overrun by teenagers. We mostly made (grey) poopuns.


It's totally correct that not all of the people on Jay's server are teenagers, and I really do think he created the server with the express purpose of having an atmosphere free of drama...but he did single out a couple of people in the chat as romantic/sexual conquests. 

And yes, I was flirty with him and agreed to travel with him willingly, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he 
a) pulled all of that creepy and gross shit while I traveled with him and 
b) seemed to have harnessed his authority in the server to appear as a wise travel mentor that emotionally vulnerable young people could confide in. I have had conversations with him, where he voiced that he was trying to convince the aforementioned 19 year old to just drop everything and travel to come see Jay because he would take care of him...this person was having a very hard time emotionally and had never left home. Can you imagine how fucking confusing things would be for a person who was struggling emotionally to leave everything familiar to them to come see someone who would most like take advantage of them sexually? That's hella fucked up...


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## Matt Derrick (Apr 20, 2020)

just to follow up and bring this all to a close, i'm letting folks know that @Rhubarb Dwyer's account has been banned. They haven't logged in since the day before this thread was started, and it's been a month and a half now, so he's had a chance to say his piece and has chosen not to do so, so I think that concludes this conversation.

thread closed.


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