# I bought an RV



## autumn

I just bought a 1983 Toyota Sunrader. Here's a picture:







The good: fiberglass is intact, no leaks, new vents, working water pump, radiant heater, new battery (had to replace the terminals, they were super ghetto rigged), all lights work, all "plumbing" (just tubes really) is good, it has a 1 ton dually 6 lug full floating rear axle, shower/toilet, fresh water tank, grey and black water tanks, working propane stove/oven. It's got some rust issues but a friend of mine is a welder and can fix it for me.

112k miles original/never rebuilt, 22R engine, just drove it 1k miles from Arkansas to Virginia.

Big update:

Lots of work done. New carb (weber 32/36), new harmonic balancer, new oil pump seal, new water pump, valves are all in factory spec, new camshaft seals, new valve cover gasket, entire engine has been gone over with propane looking for a phantom vacuum leak (it was just a tuning issue), timing is good, all emissions equipment removed except ancient charcoal canisters.

Compression/oil rings are totally worn out. Head needs to come off, crank might be damaged. Later updates to come.


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## Kim Chee

Pretty unusual for a Toyota with so few miles to have so many problems.

Might get the cylinder compression tested and have a leakdown test done.

Is there oil in the coolant?

Is there coolant in the oil?


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> Pretty unusual for a Toyota with so few miles to have so many problems.
> 
> Might get the cylinder compression tested and have a leakdown test done.
> 
> Is there oil in the coolant?
> 
> Is there coolant in the oil?



Yeah, but it must have been sitting somewhere for decades. And it was a pretty good deal given the condition.

No coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant thankfully. Should be something simpler than a blown head gasket I hope...


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## Kim Chee

Hope so. 

RV's do tend to sit a lot.

Could be valve seals.

Gotta do a proper diagnose.

Those engines are pretty reliable.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> Hope so.
> 
> RV's do tend to sit a lot.
> 
> Could be valve seals.
> 
> Gotta do a proper diagnose.
> 
> Those engines are pretty reliable.



Yeah... I'm gonna check the pcv valve once the sun rises. In any case it probably needs to be replaced 'cause this thing wasn't taken care of. I already ordered a new valve and grommet, since they were about $1.


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## Kim Chee

zim said:


> Yeah... I'm gonna check the pcv valve once the sun rises. In any case it probably needs to be replaced 'cause this thing wasn't taken care of. I already ordered a new valve and grommet, since they were about $1.



I'm talking about engine valves:

http://www.ehow.com/how_8016576_tell-valve-guides-gone-bad.html


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## Shwhiskey Gumimaci

Do the speed wobbles seem to be coming from the engine or the frame of the vehicle itself? That will make a big difference in what you need to do. Also with older vehicles they can go through oil like no other. With my last 2 vehicles I had in the summer I just dealt with it. I just bought oil wherever I was. I'd spange for whatever I needed to get by. Have you checked the alignment at all? Make sure all the tires all the same size (I know that seems stupid but I'm telling you if they aren't all the same it will fuck you up). I'm not sure with such a vague description what exactly is wrong with your vehicle. I'm not a mechanic or anything but I have driven quite a few old, and shitty vehicles, and gained a lot of experience in the process. If you're worried about your engine you can get a code reader for between $20-30 online. Don't listen to all of the codes just the ones that might seem relevant.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> I'm talking about engine valves:
> 
> http://www.ehow.com/how_8016576_tell-valve-guides-gone-bad.html



Crossing my fingers there. If there's anything funky going on in the head I'm just going to have the engine rebuilt because I don't want to spend $500 having piston rings replaced then have a piston crack or valve guide fail, or find out the entire head of the engine is being held together by carbon deposits from burnt oil. It happened to my scooter and it was pretty nasty. Pistons rings were fused to the piston. Bad timing belt on my moped after that busted a cylinder. Don't know when any work has been done on this engine (the guy who owned it was very proud of his maintenance receipt for windshield wipers 2 years ago) so if that's the case I'm going to play it safe and have it rebuilt. Timing belt is 50k miles overdue too.


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## autumn

Shwhiskey Gumimaci said:


> Do the speed wobbles seem to be coming from the engine or the frame of the vehicle itself? That will make a big difference in what you need to do. Also with older vehicles they can go through oil like no other. With my last 2 vehicles I had in the summer I just dealt with it. I just bought oil wherever I was. I'd spange for whatever I needed to get by. Have you checked the alignment at all? Make sure all the tires all the same size (I know that seems stupid but I'm telling you if they aren't all the same it will fuck you up). I'm not sure with such a vague description what exactly is wrong with your vehicle. I'm not a mechanic or anything but I have driven quite a few old, and shitty vehicles, and gained a lot of experience in the process. If you're worried about your engine you can get a code reader for between $20-30 online. Don't listen to all of the codes just the ones that might seem relevant.



They seem to be coming from the frame. I'm thinking suspension but I don't know anything about vehicles so it's mostly a guess based on being passed by a semi causing it to wobble. I think I'm gonna go to an alignment shop sometime next week. All tires are the same size, I checked that when I bought it. My friends RV got fucked up by exactly that, put a smaller wheel on the rear dually and it fucked up her axle u-joints. I think the engine is too old for a code reader  So far as I know 22Rs should not go through oil like this. After reading around a lot online it seems that something is seriously wrong with it, now it's just a matter of figuring out what. I'm also going to put 15w-40 in it and see what happens.


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## tacopirate

I don't know much about this sort of thing, but being from the 80's it's a body-on-frame vehicle, correct?


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## Grubblin

The 22Rs are supposed to be rock solid. Since they're so prevalent you may be able to find a used 22R which is newer with less miles for less than the cost of a rebuild. A Chevy 4.3L V6 can also be substituted with some mods to the motor mounts, etc. That would be a more expensive option but would give you more power to pull the body and it's another solid engine.


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## Dmac

Those old 22R's can run forever. My buddy has an old 70's model and it still going with over 400K on it. It uses about 1 quart of oil for every 2 tanks of gas, but has been doing that since the 90's. I'd suggest buying a Chiltons, mechanics guide for that engine, and you will be able to diagnose and fix a lot. good luck


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## Shwhiskey Gumimaci

zim said:


> They seem to be coming from the frame. I'm thinking suspension but I don't know anything about vehicles so it's mostly a guess based on being passed by a semi causing it to wobble. I think I'm gonna go to an alignment shop sometime next week. All tires are the same size, I checked that when I bought it. My friends RV got fucked up by exactly that, put a smaller wheel on the rear dually and it fucked up her axle u-joints. I think the engine is too old for a code reader  So far as I know 22Rs should not go through oil like this. After reading around a lot online it seems that something is seriously wrong with it, now it's just a matter of figuring out what. I'm also going to put 15w-40 in it and see what happens.


Well I would try to check everything in the frame is nice and tight. If you screw up your frame it won't be pretty or cheap. Also that could be due to not enough oil. And you're right a vehicle like that shouldn't be going through that much oil. Although I don't think it's leaking, just based off your description. My guess is it's just burning through it. Pretty common in older vehicles. I don't know exactly what that means as far as fixing it goes and price, I'd suggest try to find a mechanic in your friend group, or last resort Craigslist. In my experience online research can only go so far when it comes to an old vehicle with vague problems. You have options, Check all your fluids and keep a close eye on that oil. I don't have professional experience so that's the best I can give you for now.


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## autumn

tacopirate said:


> I don't know much about this sort of thing, but being from the 80's it's a body-on-frame vehicle, correct?



Yeppers!



Grubblin said:


> The 22Rs are supposed to be rock solid. Since they're so prevalent you may be able to find a used 22R which is newer with less miles for less than the cost of a rebuild. A Chevy 4.3L V6 can also be substituted with some mods to the motor mounts, etc. That would be a more expensive option but would give you more power to pull the body and it's another solid engine.



That's definitely true. At least with a rebuild though, I can buy high quality parts and have total confidence that the engine will last until I learn how to work on it. Since I'm generally a very anxious person it's a matter of managing expectations. If I bought a 22R lifted from a pickup with only 40k miles on it, it's pretty much completely assured that it was sitting somewhere for decades without being run, which could cause a lot more problems than my current engine has. A recycled engine is about 2.5k and a long block is about 1.5k. If I got a set of good gaskets, a new timing set with steel guides (oem is plastic), pistons & rings, a full bearing kit, a new camshaft and crankshaft, and a new cylinder head, new valves and oil pump, as well as all the little things needed like tubing, it should be ~$1700 incl. labor. What are your thoughts?



Dmac said:


> Those old 22R's can run forever. My buddy has an old 70's model and it still going with over 400K on it. It uses about 1 quart of oil for every 2 tanks of gas, but has been doing that since the 90's. I'd suggest buying a Chiltons, mechanics guide for that engine, and you will be able to diagnose and fix a lot. good luck



That's pretty crazy. From what I've read it's entirely not normal, and seems like a toss up between something innocuous and something that will eventually cause catastrophic engine failure. Some people say "it wouldn't be a toyota if it didn't [leak/burn] oil", others say burning oil is rebuild time.






Just picked one up for 10 cents!



Shwhiskey Gumimaci said:


> Well I would try to check everything in the frame is nice and tight. If you screw up your frame it won't be pretty or cheap. Also that could be due to not enough oil. And you're right a vehicle like that shouldn't be going through that much oil. Although I don't think it's leaking, just based off your description. My guess is it's just burning through it. Pretty common in older vehicles. I don't know exactly what that means as far as fixing it goes and price, I'd suggest try to find a mechanic in your friend group, or last resort Craigslist. In my experience online research can only go so far when it comes to an old vehicle with vague problems. You have options, Check all your fluids and keep a close eye on that oil. I don't have professional experience so that's the best I can give you for now.



That's a very good point. I think it might be both leaking and burning. A few tablespoons of oil drip out of the front end of the engine after being run for a while and shut off. Can't locate the leak visually. It isn't the front seal or any gasket I can get eyes on/recognize. But it doesn't seem like such a little leak could account for the rate of consumption. Like I said earlier in the thread I'm going to swap the pcv valve & rubber line, I'm going to check the spark plugs for extreme carbon buildup and replace all fluids.

The only problem with my friend group is that they're scattered everywhere  Closest mechanic I would trust is 2,000mi away in Arizona. I called the only dude on craigslist within 100mi who told me he couldn't replace piston rings because of the "risk involved" - seems like someone who worked at jiffy lube for a couple of weeks. I do have the number to what is supposedly the best auto shop in town, I'm gonna give them a call tomorrow and see what they'd charge for a rebuild if I have the parts.

I wish research went farther, but I know it's going to come down to actually checking stuff out physically. I've just gotta take everything slowly so I don't fuck anything up or make the problem worse.


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## Dmac

@zim Yep that's the one! You will not regret getting that book. I don't suppose that you have the owners manual for the RV, do you? great help with all the appliances and what not.


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## autumn

Dmac said:


> @zim Yep that's the one! You will not regret getting that book. I don't suppose that you have the owners manual for the RV, do you? great help with all the appliances and what not.



I've got a printout of the sunrader manual and the original 1983 toyota hilux owner's manual. Luckily the only appliance is the propane oven/range which works perfectly. The water pump died today, heh. Who needs showers anyway?

Oh, and when messing with the water pump I accidentally flushed the black water tank down someone's driveway. Tried hosing it off but it still smelled like fermenting piss.


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## kecleon

If you're burning that much oil you'll see it and not just when you open the oil cap you aren't seeing smoke out the exhaust? If you don't have excessive smoke get it up to temperature and put cardboard under it as leave it idlr a while the little leak you see running at temperature could be losing that much oil. 

Is the engine bay smoky when you open it or you get any weird smells in the car? You have no overheating? good power? Compression? 

It could still just be head gasket even with no coolant missing / in oil or valve seals and pcv like you said worth doing anyway. I'd be surprised if you need a top end rebuild.

Probably with all the new oil you added it skews it a bit but what did the oil you changed out look like?


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## Grubblin

If you could find a dyno to test the used motor you could be reasonably sure of what you were getting. If forgot to add that part. Buying your own parts is definitely the way to go if you can afford it.


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## todd

those few drops of oil when you park could very well be a lot more when your at full revs and oil pressure at cruising speeds. just like another said, if there's no smoke or burning oil smell in your exhaust id be willing to bet there's a gasket or O-ring leaking somewhere on the engine. it will leak more when the engine is at full speed and temperature. there's only a few places the oil can go. into the coolant section, out on the ground, or out the tailpipe.
good luck and keep us posted.


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## Grubblin

I forgot to post this earlier but valve cover gaskets are notorious for oil leaks and they're cheap and easy to change. I would start looking there for the oil leak. If you have the time you may want to just change them out whether you can tell if they're leaking or not. The problem with diagnosing an oil leak is that the oil gets everywhere making the source difficult to pinpoint. Apologies if this has already been posted.


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## autumn

charmander said:


> If you're burning that much oil you'll see it and not just when you open the oil cap you aren't seeing smoke out the exhaust? If you don't have excessive smoke get it up to temperature and put cardboard under it as leave it idlr a while the little leak you see running at temperature could be losing that much oil.
> 
> Is the engine bay smoky when you open it or you get any weird smells in the car? You have no overheating? good power? Compression?
> 
> It could still just be head gasket even with no coolant missing / in oil or valve seals and pcv like you said worth doing anyway. I'd be surprised if you need a top end rebuild.
> 
> Probably with all the new oil you added it skews it a bit but what did the oil you changed out look like?





todd said:


> those few drops of oil when you park could very well be a lot more when your at full revs and oil pressure at cruising speeds. just like another said, if there's no smoke or burning oil smell in your exhaust id be willing to bet there's a gasket or O-ring leaking somewhere on the engine. it will leak more when the engine is at full speed and temperature. there's only a few places the oil can go. into the coolant section, out on the ground, or out the tailpipe.
> good luck and keep us posted.



@charmander & @todd

I took it up to an auto shop that has a reputation for doing good work on old engines. They said they could diagnose it within a few days for an hour of labor. He took a look at the engine and he said it was both leaking and burning. Said it might be something simple and easy but there's no way to know until they take a look at it, and if it's not a gasket/distributor oring or something they'll have to pull the block. He said if they have to pull the engine out it'd be an hour and a half (so $110) at most. Seems pretty good to me, the place across the street said they'd diagnose it for $300 and wouldn't get to it until April. I also called some dipstick who told me that a smoking oil cap means that it's done and I have to buy a remanufactured engine..from him presumably.

He said it's definitely burning oil, when I was revving it in neutral with the doors open I could smell it in the exhaust too. He said it doesn't look like it's burning enough oil to go through a quart every 600 miles. I asked him about exactly what you said, if the leak would get worse when at operating temperatures and he said probably. If it's going out of the tailpipe I'm guessing (with my very limited understanding of engines) that means it's just going mostly out of the exhaust valve.. which is better than it heading anywhere else, I'd think. Maybe not in terms of the source of the issue, but in terms of collateral damage.



Grubblin said:


> I forgot to post this earlier but valve cover gaskets are notorious for oil leaks and they're cheap and easy to change. I would start looking there for the oil leak. If you have the time you may want to just change them out whether you can tell if they're leaking or not. The problem with diagnosing an oil leak is that the oil gets everywhere making the source difficult to pinpoint. Apologies if this has already been posted.



Yeah it's good advice and it's a pain in the ass to find. I wasn't able to find it myself even after using some brake cleaner to wipe the engine down. I wonder if there's some kind of dye that you can put in oil to find a leak... I know they do that for AC systems with an ultraviolet dye. Probably wouldn't work with oil because it would just get combusted yeh?



Grubblin said:


> If you could find a dyno to test the used motor you could be reasonably sure of what you were getting. If forgot to add that part. Buying your own parts is definitely the way to go if you can afford it.



That's a really good point and I think I might go that route if the engine is fucked. Buying a bunch of parts and having it rebuilt is still expensive as hell, not as expensive as a long block... but maybe getting a good engine and swapping them is the way to go, like you said.


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## kecleon

Yeah 110 is a great deal for that in my eyes, you'd never get close to that here. Hope it's an easy fix otherwise at least you can get a better picture what you need.


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## Kim Chee

The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.

More classic than classy.

Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.

Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.


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## Grubblin

There is an oil dye that you can use, I'm not sure if it's UV or not.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.
> 
> More classic than classy.
> 
> Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.
> 
> Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.



Very good point, luckily I had the sense to ask them that and they said in total an hour and a half of labor, I asked them if that means I'll pay the hour and a half and it will be in the same condition as when I dropped it off, as in I could drive it away, and they said yes. I recorded the interaction with my phone in my overalls' breast pocket because mechanics are usually crooked motherfuckers and I always feel the need to be prepared to go to small claims.

They could be full of shit but if I show them the video I doubt they'd refuse to release the vehicle for the stated $110. I think they'd be much more likely to pull the ol' "we broke a bolt and the seal on your head gasket, now you have new spark plugs, heres 8 hours of labor and $120 in parts". A brand new head gasket to go with my brand new flux capacitor.

Oh and I should clarify, they didn't say "pull the engine".. I think he meant pull the head off.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.
> 
> More classic than classy.
> 
> Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.
> 
> Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.



Actually I just went back and watched the video and he said an hour and a half at most if they DIDN'T have to pull it off. That makes a lot more sense, doh.

Now I'm gonna have to give them a call tomorrow and make sure they don't do that...


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## Dmac

Did anyone mention taking it to an Auto Diagnostic center? They can usually give you a clear picture of what's going on, without pulling the engine. Last time I did it was like 60 or 80 bucks.


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## Kim Chee

Dmac said:


> Did anyone mention taking it to an Auto Diagnostic center? They can usually give you a clear picture of what's going on, without pulling the engine. Last time I did it was like 60 or 80 bucks.



I mentioned diagnose waaaaay back early in the thread.

Yeah, great idea before tearing shit apart.


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## Dmac

@Kim Chee Yes, very good idea. I do that to any used car, before I buy. Many used car lots will deduct the cost of the diagnostic, if you end up buying the car. fyi


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## kecleon

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) that an 83 Toyota didn't have diagnostics. Also since he hasn't mentioned check engine light unless I missed it.

I thought the 110 was too pull the cylinder head which would be a great deal.. even if it was another 110 to put it back.

If it's 110 to poke around a bit it sounds about right a good/honest mechanic has a decent chance of figuring out yr problem.


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## Kim Chee

charmander said:


> I thought the 110 was too pull the cylinder head which would be a great deal.. even if it was another 110 to put it back.



It would be if something were fixed, but it won't without extra money. Also, it takes at least 3x as long to put shit back together as it did to take it apart. So, putting it back together for $110 is just wishful thinking.

You don't need onboard diagnostics to diagnose a problem.

@zim, rent a compression tester, perform compression check and a leakdown check and try to diagnose the issue (everything I mentioned earlier).

While pulling plugs, number and inspect them (there is a chart which will tell you how to read them).

~The above will tell you a lot WITHOUT TAKING THE DAMN MOTOR APART~

Since you pulled the plugs, put different, newly gapped ones in unless the plugs you pulled look normal. They're cheap and you can use them in whatever motor or head they will go in later.

Did that shop tell you how much a new headgasket with new bolts was going to be? Yep, those things are normally replaced when pulling head.

Resurfacing the head? 

Most shops can't do that work and it gets sent to a machine shop.

I'd hate to see such a low mile motor be tossed, but you may want to source a running used engine or rebuild if you can afford it.


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## Grubblin

You could also keep the engine that you have in it. Buy a used engine and rebuild it, while running the present engine, then swap them out when you get the second engine rebuilt. That way you have a ride to get around while the work is being done. 

This is kind of a pipe dream, I guess. I've always wanted to do that with my truck but when I had the money and space, I didn't have the time. Now that I have the time I don't have the money or the space.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> It would be if something were fixed, but it won't without extra money. Also, it takes at least 3x as long to put shit back together as it did to take it apart. So, putting it back together for $110 is just wishful thinking.
> 
> You don't need onboard diagnostics to diagnose a problem.
> 
> @zim, rent a compression tester, perform compression check and a leakdown check and try to diagnose the issue (everything I mentioned earlier).
> 
> While pulling plugs, number and inspect them (there is a chart which will tell you how to read them).
> 
> ~The above will tell you a lot WITHOUT TAKING THE DAMN MOTOR APART~
> 
> Since you pulled the plugs, put different, newly gapped ones in unless the plugs you pulled look normal. They're cheap and you can use them in whatever motor or head they will go in later.
> 
> Did that shop tell you how much a new headgasket with new bolts was going to be? Yep, those things are normally replaced when pulling head.
> 
> Resurfacing the head?
> 
> Most shops can't do that work and it gets sent to a machine shop.
> 
> I'd hate to see such a low mile motor be tossed, but you may want to source a running used engine or rebuild if you can afford it.



That's all great advice. The reason I didn't want to pull the plugs is that they look like they've never been changed and are probably being held together by carbon deposits. If they pull them at the shop I can at least force them to give me a discount if it falls apart. Same thing happened with my scooter, everything was being held together by burnt oil and when it got cranked it blew the piston apart. A little "you fucked it up buddy, I went in there with a running engine" goes a long way.

I called them this morning and put some pressure on the guy, he said he'd do the diagnostic for free and I have the call recorded. And I specifically told him not to pull the spark plugs if he doesn't think he can get them back in without breaking the engine. He said before he does any labor-costing work he'll give me a call and get my approval. When he does that I'm gonna go over there and get a written estimate so I'm on the right side of VA law and they can't fuck me. In VA, quoted work, in writing, can't exceed 20% of the original quote for vehicles older than 25 years. I'll file against them in small claims if I have to.


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## autumn

Grubblin said:


> You could also keep the engine that you have in it. Buy a used engine and rebuild it, while running the present engine, then swap them out when you get the second engine rebuilt. That way you have a ride to get around while the work is being done.
> 
> This is kind of a pipe dream, I guess. I've always wanted to do that with my truck but when I had the money and space, I didn't have the time. Now that I have the time I don't have the money or the space.



I looked into that today and spoke to a few people in WV with 22Rs that they're selling. I'm keeping it open as an option


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.
> 
> More classic than classy.
> 
> Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.
> 
> Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.



God damnit @Kim Chee, you were completely right. They're a bunch of cheating, lying motherfuckers. They haven't done anything yet, thankfully, but the guy lied to me about what he said. When I called him out on it he tried to continue the conversation as if nothing had happened.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow and I'm not paying them shit. Better yet, I'll snatch it in the middle of the night and go get my keys back tomorrow in case they try to pull some shit.


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## Dmac

That sucks Dude. Good luck with that!


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## autumn

I'm just playing mechanic roulette right now. If I had an air compressor I'd do the leakdown test and wait for my service manual in the mail but if I can get a mechanic to diagnose the issue for an hour of labor that's good too, and I can just verify it on my own.

Despite my own incompetence I'm heavily leaning towards just doing all the work myself. I've gotta learn sometime but I was hoping it would be with a fully functioning engine, replacing little parts like the starter and working my way up from there - not my first project being pulling the head, honing the cylinders, replacing the pistons, water pump oil pump timing chain, having to redo the timing myself.


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## Kim Chee

Maybe somebody with skills can show up.

There's got to be a few 22r's out there.

Not sure if you can get 22re to work without serious modification, worth looking into though.


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## autumn

Kim Chee said:


> Maybe somebody with skills can show up.
> 
> There's got to be a few 22r's out there.
> 
> Not sure if you can get 22re to work without serious modification, worth looking into though.



Maybe, heh. I just spoke to a guy a hundred miles from me who said he's a retired mechanic and would help me with a rebuild. I asked around online and the consensus from mechanics seems to be that doing a ring job with no experience or proper diagnosis to fix mysterious oil burning is a bad idea.

I have an air compressor now and ordered a decent compression tester and leakdown kit, as well as a factory service manual which will be here on Friday. The factory service manual is a hundred dollars, but fulfilled by Amazon. When I receive it I will return "it"; my 10 cent Chilton's manual. Whoever's unpacking the box won't give enough of a shit to discern the difference.

Lesson learned: harbor freight is crap for everything except cheaply casted non-precision tools. And I've ended up spending way more money than I wanted to on the compression/leakdown kits and a quality torque wrench.

Crossing my fingers and hoping the engine doesn't implode after removing the ancient spark plugs.


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## Kim Chee

Pb blaster might help with the plugs.

Good luck.


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## bystander

Hey Zim- don't got time to read the whole thread so if this was mentioned before...

Death wobbles.. suck. My Jeep has been plagued before. Check tires; flat spots, choppy surface, low in air pressure, dry rot, are they in balance? Seriously tires are no joke... its what keeps you and yer vehicle firmly on the ground.

Bad ball joints, tie rods etc check em. any broken boots, seals, etc... 

Hows the brakes? bad brakes can trip some death wobbles too.


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## Grubblin

zim said:


> I'm just playing mechanic roulette right now.



Here's the best way to play that game. Go to your local auto parts store, the single owner small stores are the best,and strike up a conversation with the parts person that seems to know the most. It may not necessarily be the manager but it will be the one you see all the other people asking questions of. Ask him or her for the name of a good local shade tree mechanic. They all know at least one and sometimes they know several, usually these guys have store credit accounts to buy parts until they get paid from the job. As a side note, I've become friends with several mechanics like this that have let me buy parts on their account and me pay them for the parts, they get a DEEP discount bc of all the parts they buy and the store still makes money. If there's a choice of several mechanics then explain that you have a 22r, you don't have to get into specifics unless they ask, they'll know someone who can do that engine based on bullshit sessions at the shop.

I've NEVER, EVER found an auto mechanics business to be honest but every single one of the half a dozen shade trees that I've used have been honest to a fault. If they said the job would take three hours and cost $100 and the job ended up taking four hours they still charged the 100 they quoted. Sometimes you can lower the cost by helping them work on it, even if it's just another pair of hands. If you get a chance to do that then you can learn quite a bit about how to fix things for yourself just by paying attention to everything they're doing. Good Luck!


----------



## DrewSTNY

The 22R is definitely a workhorse. 

*I wouldn't be too concerned about the oil consumption unless you are going through more than a quart per tank. 
*
I have had many VWs that went through more oil than gas, and they always ran like tops even if they fouled plugs like mad and left their mark in all my friends driveways.

Given that the old girl is only meant to run 50-60mph down the road, driving her at 65-75mph is going to make blow-by much worse. There is a lot of weight on that chassis for that engine, so 120k on the ticker could be about all she will get. However, she might run for a LONG, LONG time the way she is.

*As the old saying goes, if she ain't broke, fix her until she is!!*

*Simple things to check -*

*Smoke out the exhaust when warm.* If there is no catalytic converter, there will be some gray/black smoke out the pipe. No biggie. Blue/grey fog out of the pipe is going to be any of the fore-mentioned (rings or valves)

*Oil on the ground* - Probably leaking valve cover gasket. A leaky valve cover gasket can be a sign of plugged oil return passages. A good block cleaner when doing an oil change is decent at cleaning these out.

*Smoke out of the oil cap when running* is excessive blow-by and is a sign of worn compression rings. Get a compression test done, or learn how to do one yourself. Make sure to adjust the valves, if possible. I can't remember if the 22R had valve adjusters or not. The overhead cam engines with spacers on top of the valves are a PITA to deal with so I never massed with them.

I guess you could start with replacing the valve cover gaskets, distributor o-ring (not really a source of leaking, but if you are paranoid), oil pan gasket, etc. This will stop external leaks.

I would definitely get the compression test done to make sure that the cylinders are all somewhat balanced and that you don't have valve problems.

In this day and age, unless you find a mechanic that has been working on cars since the 80's, you are going to have a hard time finding anyone competent with these older engines. That's why I have switched to diesel power. Not much has changed there, and I can put a Kubota engine in my car, if necessary.


----------



## DrewSTNY

*Death Wobble -
*
Small truck chassis, large box on the ass == PITA to drive at highway speeds.

That said, check your ball joints and tie rod ends* first*.

Second, check the steering gear. That truck may have a rack and pinion, but I can't remember. If the steering wheel goes back and forth more than 1/8 of a turn without moving the wheels, you need to figure out what's up.

Third, because I can't remember what front end that truck has...check the control arm bushings and and stabilizer bushings. Unless she was in an accident, those should be fine.

If everything is tight, put a heavy duty sway bar on the rear axle. That will help, but not eliminate the death wobble. Something like this: www.summitracing.com/parts/hel-7539 (Hellwig #7539). If you can find one, put a bigger sway bar on the front, 1" diameter or bigger.

Old trucks are cool as hell, but anything over 45mph makes them a friggin' death trap.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> The 22R is definitely a workhorse.
> 
> *I wouldn't be too concerned about the oil consumption unless you are going through more than a quart per tank.
> *
> I have had many VWs that went through more oil than gas, and they always ran like tops even if they fouled plugs like mad and left their mark in all my friends driveways.
> 
> Given that the old girl is only meant to run 50-60mph down the road, driving her at 65-75mph is going to make blow-by much worse. There is a lot of weight on that chassis for that engine, so 120k on the ticker could be about all she will get. However, she might run for a LONG, LONG time the way she is.



Yeah, it's a real tank. The only thing I've found the deeper I go into the engine is just how neglected it's been, but it still runs fine.



DrewSTNY said:


> *As the old saying goes, if she ain't broke, fix her until she is!!*
> 
> *Simple things to check -*
> 
> *Smoke out the exhaust when warm.* If there is no catalytic converter, there will be some gray/black smoke out the pipe. No biggie. Blue/grey fog out of the pipe is going to be any of the fore-mentioned (rings or valves)



Just a little white puff.



DrewSTNY said:


> *Oil on the ground* - Probably leaking valve cover gasket. A leaky valve cover gasket can be a sign of plugged oil return passages. A good block cleaner when doing an oil change is decent at cleaning these out.



Haha yeah... I found the source of the leak. It's the radiator. There's oil in the coolant, but no coolant in the oil. The exhaust doesn't smell like antifreeze. Slightly frightening, because my understanding is this: when the head gasket is blown, oil and coolant can exchange freely because they have no significant pressure difference. If the head cracks, pressurized oil (50psi) can find it's way into a coolant line, but the coolant can't mix with the oil due to the pressure.

However, I have also read that unless it's blown really bad, on a 22R in particular, coolant won't mix with the oil. I don't really know what to believe.



DrewSTNY said:


> *Smoke out of the oil cap when running* is excessive blow-by and is a sign of worn compression rings. Get a compression test done, or learn how to do one yourself. Make sure to adjust the valves, if possible. I can't remember if the 22R had valve adjusters or not. The overhead cam engines with spacers on top of the valves are a PITA to deal with so I never massed with them.



I swapped the PCV valve and the amount of smoke coming out of the cap went down by a _lot_. There's still a small, visible amount of smoke coming out though. Also, literally all of the rubber hoses are ancient and cracked, and need to be replaced. I'm so surprised that this thing runs at all.



DrewSTNY said:


> I guess you could start with replacing the valve cover gaskets, distributor o-ring (not really a source of leaking, but if you are paranoid), oil pan gasket, etc. This will stop external leaks.
> 
> I would definitely get the compression test done to make sure that the cylinders are all somewhat balanced and that you don't have valve problems.



The crooked fucker I went to said the valvetrain is bad and that's where the whistling sound at midrange rpm is coming from. I'm guessing they just need to be adjusted, the guy tried to tell me he knew the valves were busted by taking off the air filter. Valve cover wasn't touched, I know because I asked him, and because those bolts are stripped.



DrewSTNY said:


> In this day and age, unless you find a mechanic that has been working on cars since the 80's, you are going to have a hard time finding anyone competent with these older engines. That's why I have switched to diesel power. Not much has changed there, and I can put a Kubota engine in my car, if necessary.


[/quote]

That's a really good point. When I need to replace the engine I might look for the diesel 22R. It exists but I don't know how common it is.

Thank you for sharing your advice and knowledge, I appreciate you 



DrewSTNY said:


> *Death Wobble -
> *
> Small truck chassis, large box on the ass == PITA to drive at highway speeds.
> 
> That said, check your ball joints and tie rod ends* first*.
> 
> Second, check the steering gear. That truck may have a rack and pinion, but I can't remember. If the steering wheel goes back and forth more than 1/8 of a turn without moving the wheels, you need to figure out what's up.
> 
> Third, because I can't remember what front end that truck has...check the control arm bushings and and stabilizer bushings. Unless she was in an accident, those should be fine.
> 
> If everything is tight, put a heavy duty sway bar on the rear axle. That will help, but not eliminate the death wobble. Something like this: www.summitracing.com/parts/hel-7539 (Hellwig #7539). If you can find one, put a bigger sway bar on the front, 1" diameter or bigger.
> 
> Old trucks are cool as hell, but anything over 45mph makes them a friggin' death trap.



Yeah, I couldn't exceed ~50mph without it wobbling. I was driving another large vehicle the other day and noticed it did the same thing when being passed by semis, which makes me a lot less worried about it. No accident damage so far as I can tell, everything on the frame is straight and in order. Bumper has a few dents but the fenders are definitely original and have never been impacted. Fiberglass has never been patched. So I'm operating under the assumption that it has never been in a significant accident.

The steering wheel has about 1/4 a rotation of freeplay. It also has no power steering. I can rock the steering wheel back and forth (from one side to the other about 3/4 a rotation) without the wheels being affected at all.

I didn't know sway bars exist. That's pretty cool.

I appreciate you, thank you for all of your advice.


----------



## autumn

Thank you for your advice and information. Thanks to everybody. I appreciate all of you and you've made my life so much easier with your advice.



Kim Chee said:


> Pb blaster might help with the plugs.
> 
> Good luck.



Thanks for the tip! I'll give it a shot.



bystander said:


> Hey Zim- don't got time to read the whole thread so if this was mentioned before...
> 
> Death wobbles.. suck. My Jeep has been plagued before. Check tires; flat spots, choppy surface, low in air pressure, dry rot, are they in balance? Seriously tires are no joke... its what keeps you and yer vehicle firmly on the ground.
> 
> Bad ball joints, tie rods etc check em. any broken boots, seals, etc...
> 
> Hows the brakes? bad brakes can trip some death wobbles too.



No flat spots, good tread, air pressure is a little low but not severe, no cracking. The tires are only a few months old. I don't really have a handle on the condition of the brakes because they're working against the inertia of the 7,000lb body. Takes about 500-700 feet to come to a complete stop from 45mph if I'm not slamming on them. Could be wrong because I'm pretty bad at measuring distance, but I haven't been made uncomfortable hitting red lights at 45-50mph, and normal city traffic. Only had to push real hard on the brakes when I misjudged my braking distance one time. Rotors look good.

I will check the underside to the best of my ability, I was going to take it to an alignment shop but this shit with the engine has taken priority unfortunately.




Grubblin said:


> Here's the best way to play that game. Go to your local auto parts store, the single owner small stores are the best,and strike up a conversation with the parts person that seems to know the most. It may not necessarily be the manager but it will be the one you see all the other people asking questions of. Ask him or her for the name of a good local shade tree mechanic. They all know at least one and sometimes they know several, usually these guys have store credit accounts to buy parts until they get paid from the job. As a side note, I've become friends with several mechanics like this that have let me buy parts on their account and me pay them for the parts, they get a DEEP discount bc of all the parts they buy and the store still makes money. If there's a choice of several mechanics then explain that you have a 22r, you don't have to get into specifics unless they ask, they'll know someone who can do that engine based on bullshit sessions at the shop.
> 
> I've NEVER, EVER found an auto mechanics business to be honest but every single one of the half a dozen shade trees that I've used have been honest to a fault. If they said the job would take three hours and cost $100 and the job ended up taking four hours they still charged the 100 they quoted. Sometimes you can lower the cost by helping them work on it, even if it's just another pair of hands. If you get a chance to do that then you can learn quite a bit about how to fix things for yourself just by paying attention to everything they're doing. Good Luck!



That's really good advice. I'm going to go do that right now. There are no local auto part stores here, just an advanced auto parts, but it'll have to do and it's only a couple of blocks away. I've been in and out of there all week so I've got a specific person in mind.

That's also what I've been looking for. I found a guy who said he's a retired mechanic and his body can't handle the work anymore, but he'll let me use his shop and can walk me through what I need to do (I had originally inquired about a rebuild). But he's being kind of sideways about how much he wants me to pay him so I'm trying to find someone else. And yeah... I had a shop quote me 35 hours for a rebuild... the crooked motherfuckers I went to quoted me *FORTY. *Diesel mechanic next town over quoted me 22 hours... more reasonable but from everything I've read, an experienced mechanic shouldn't take more than 15 on a 22R, assuming there aren't complications.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> *Death Wobble -
> *
> Small truck chassis, large box on the ass == PITA to drive at highway speeds.
> 
> That said, check your ball joints and tie rod ends* first*.
> 
> Second, check the steering gear. That truck may have a rack and pinion, but I can't remember. If the steering wheel goes back and forth more than 1/8 of a turn without moving the wheels, you need to figure out what's up.
> 
> Third, because I can't remember what front end that truck has...check the control arm bushings and and stabilizer bushings. Unless she was in an accident, those should be fine.
> 
> If everything is tight, put a heavy duty sway bar on the rear axle. That will help, but not eliminate the death wobble. Something like this: www.summitracing.com/parts/hel-7539 (Hellwig #7539). If you can find one, put a bigger sway bar on the front, 1" diameter or bigger.
> 
> Old trucks are cool as hell, but anything over 45mph makes them a friggin' death trap.



About the brakes, I forgot to mention... It's not the brakes that worry me, but the gas pedal. The dude welded an extra inch into it, and it's impossibly hard to depress. Leg gets sore after an hour. Takes all my tensile strength to get the pedal to the floor on the highway. No fucking clue why, but I'm used to it now. Been too busy worrying about the engine to research this yet. All my google time has been used up learning about the timing system and whatnot 

Thanks again


----------



## Kim Chee

zim said:


> About the brakes, I forgot to mention... It's not the brakes that worry me, but the gas pedal. The dude welded an extra inch into it, and it's impossibly hard to depress. Leg gets sore after an hour. Takes all my tensile strength to get the pedal to the floor on the highway. No fucking clue why, but I'm used to it now. Been too busy worrying about the engine to research this yet. All my google time has been used up learning about the timing system and whatnot
> 
> Thanks again



May have installed an extra strong spring (or it needs to be lubed if rough).


----------



## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Haha yeah... I found the source of the leak. It's the radiator. There's oil in the coolant, but no coolant in the oil. The exhaust doesn't smell like antifreeze. Slightly frightening, because my understanding is this: when the head gasket is blown, oil and coolant can exchange freely because they have no significant pressure difference. If the head cracks, pressurized oil (50psi) can find it's way into a coolant line, but the coolant can't mix with the oil due to the pressure.



So all the alarms are going off in my head right now. That could be bad or could be something simple.

I don't know about that particular build, but on some Toyota trucks they had an "oil cooler" that could cause that to happen. I have seen them on 80 series Landcruisers, but I don't know about the 1-ton pick-ups. I would not be the least bit surprised if your truck has one. If it's fucked internally, you can have the same result, but I might expect the coolant to mix in with the oil as well with a bad cooler.

I am assuming that it is a stick shift and not automajic. If there is not a separate cooler for the slush box, it can leak tranny fliud into the radiator, but it should have a red tinge to it unless it's really old, then it will be brownish like engine oil.

The other possibility is definitely a cracked head or bad head gasket. Head gaskets can do some funky stuff when they are bad. Either way, I would probably pull the head and have it checked by a good machine shop.

Your mechanic that said the valves were bad by pulling the air cleaner probably saw oil pooled in the air cleaner or the filter was pretty dirty by the crank breather. On something that old, I would be surprised if the filter and air cleaner housing weren't a bit oily. Either way, he was full of shit and had no idea what he was talking about. That's the main reason why I stayed away from mechanics up until recently. I finally found a guy that I am certain knows his shit and won't fuck me over. I still do a lot of my own work, but getting old and creaky makes working on cars not so fun anymore.

Probably for now, I would watch the rad pretty close, replace everything you can that's made of rubber, drive her like she'll break at any moment, and save up to get a new/rebuilt head dropped in.

Probably the hardest part of that job is getting the timing chain on right and fixing all the bolts that break taking it apart. Good thing is you don't have to worry about breaking every bolt in the head since you are getting it redone, but breaking bolt off in the block would be a real bummer. After you are done extracting the head from the truck, you will have intimate knowledge of that old beast and probably know more about old Toyotas than 99% of humanity. 

I'm pretty far away from VA otherwise, I'd come down and give you a hand. Hopefully, I don't steer you too far off course with the armchair QB advice. Let us know how it works out, that is for sure an awesome rig and deserves to be used.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> So all the alarms are going off in my head right now. That could be bad or could be something simple.
> 
> I don't know about that particular build, but on some Toyota trucks they had an "oil cooler" that could cause that to happen. I have seen them on 80 series Landcruisers, but I don't know about the 1-ton pick-ups. I would not be the least bit surprised if your truck has one. If it's fucked internally, you can have the same result, but I might expect the coolant to mix in with the oil as well with a bad cooler.
> 
> I am assuming that it is a stick shift and not automajic. If there is not a separate cooler for the slush box, it can leak tranny fliud into the radiator, but it should have a red tinge to it unless it's really old, then it will be brownish like engine oil.
> 
> The other possibility is definitely a cracked head or bad head gasket. Head gaskets can do some funky stuff when they are bad. Either way, I would probably pull the head and have it checked by a good machine shop.
> 
> Your mechanic that said the valves were bad by pulling the air cleaner probably saw oil pooled in the air cleaner or the filter was pretty dirty by the crank breather. On something that old, I would be surprised if the filter and air cleaner housing weren't a bit oily. Either way, he was full of shit and had no idea what he was talking about. That's the main reason why I stayed away from mechanics up until recently. I finally found a guy that I am certain knows his shit and won't fuck me over. I still do a lot of my own work, but getting old and creaky makes working on cars not so fun anymore.
> 
> Probably for now, I would watch the rad pretty close, replace everything you can that's made of rubber, drive her like she'll break at any moment, and save up to get a new/rebuilt head dropped in.
> 
> Probably the hardest part of that job is getting the timing chain on right and fixing all the bolts that break taking it apart. Good thing is you don't have to worry about breaking every bolt in the head since you are getting it redone, but breaking bolt off in the block would be a real bummer. After you are done extracting the head from the truck, you will have intimate knowledge of that old beast and probably know more about old Toyotas than 99% of humanity.
> 
> I'm pretty far away from VA otherwise, I'd come down and give you a hand. Hopefully, I don't steer you too far off course with the armchair QB advice. Let us know how it works out, that is for sure an awesome rig and deserves to be used.



That's a good point. The transmission fluid is probably really fucking nasty but it doesn't have a dipstick so I can't easily check. It is a manual. 4 speed unfortunately. Thanks Jimmy Carter.

It does have an oil cooler, I checked on rockauto. I should be getting my toyota workshop service manual and a good compression tester/leakdown tester in the mail today so I can inspect it a little more closely. Also, the threads on the female side of the radiator cap are stripped and the radiator cap is loose, so the coolant might not be holding pressure. It locks in alright but it's got a lot of wiggle. My inexperienced, uninformed guess is that maybe low coolant pressure would prevent a noticeable amount of coolant from getting back into the oil if it was the head gasket.

I changed the oil yesterday and accidentally did an "oil pan flush" (got distracted and forgot the bolt, dumped a gallon of oil through the pan, put the bolt back on and filled her up) and drove the RV around for an hour. 45 mins highway, 15 mins idle. Oil still looks fine, isn't diluted. Just looks like fresh oil. Hasn't darkened at all either. Radiator still has oil in it. I'll flush the coolant when it's not 20 degrees outside and see what happens. Oddly enough the overflow tank is still hanging out at 'max' after I've driven it over 1,200 miles so it can't be that much oil leaking in. Coolant in the resevoir is still a somewhat light green but murky. Engine's highway temp hasn't changed over 1,200 miles, it's staying really cool. Side note, radiator fan belt is loose as hell.

Yeah... I was shocked that this self described 'master of old engines' with supposedly over 30 years of experience would tell me that he knew the valves were bad without putting feeler gauges in 'em. So far as I know that is the ONLY way to properly check them.

Being able to do/get help with the work is the plan for that reason. I want to be able to do it myself, but I've got pre-emptive loss anxiety. If the engine didn't run I wouldn't have a problem trying to get it in working order all on my own - even if it took me months - but it runs right now and I don't want my lack of knowledge to change that... like you said, fix her 'til she's broke. Doing the timing chain doesn't really scare me, just pulling the head.

Honestly, I was considering driving all the way to Arizona to have a friend's father give me a hand. 6 hours to Elmira isn't bad at all by comparison. If it's a legitimate offer I'd just drive the damn thing up there, get AAA RV Plus and have it towed the rest of the way if it breaks down. I can afford to pay you pretty decently for your help. My only internal debate is short block vs long block. Wondering if the crank is good or if it'd be like putting shiny implants on top of a bottom row of rotten teeth. Hard to tell because while its only 112k miles, it _is_ a 4 cylinder pulling 7,000lbs... Plus, a short block would be $700, a long block $1700. That's shipped from a specialty 22R shop in California with a very, very good reputation.


----------



## DrewSTNY

The parts house I used to work at in high school had a similar truck. Damn thing ran like sin even with a plugged fuel filter. You couldn't even blow through the filter, but the truck ran like there was nothing wrong. It always sounded like it was going to blow up when you got it out on the highway, but it was super dependable.

Being a 4 speed, there is no connection to the rad, so that eliminates one possibility. Now to figure out if it's oil cooler or head. Got any pics of fluids you took out?

Running around town without an immediate darkening of the oil is a good sign.

Can you wait to come up until the weather isn't being so psycho? You can park at the house, no problem. Got a pretty decent paved pad in front of the garage, plenty of space. No sewer hook up though.

Not too worried about getting paid, would be cool to see another old truck get more life.

Are you handy construction type tools? Maybe we can work something out in trade.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> The parts house I used to work at in high school had a similar truck. Damn thing ran like sin even with a plugged fuel filter. You couldn't even blow through the filter, but the truck ran like there was nothing wrong. It always sounded like it was going to blow up when you got it out on the highway, but it was super dependable.



That's pretty funny. Same deal here... still has the factory fuel filter. Haven't pulled it out yet but it's probably 98% clogged.



DrewSTNY said:


> Being a 4 speed, there is no connection to the rad, so that eliminates one possibility. Now to figure out if it's oil cooler or head. Got any pics of fluids you took out?



Well that's good. The oil I dumped was jet black, and that was after I had to add 2 quarts over the 1,200mi return trip. When I accidentally ran oil through the pan, it wasn't discolored coming back out, and didn't seem to have any crap in it. I haven't taken the old oil for disposal yet so I could strain it and see what secrets it's holding, if any. It sat outside overnight and there's nothing separating/floating to the top. I could also take a picture of the coolant and inside the radiator cap if you want. 



DrewSTNY said:


> Running around town without an immediate darkening of the oil is a good sign.



Yeah, we'll see what happens when I put another 100mi on it though.



DrewSTNY said:


> Can you wait to come up until the weather isn't being so psycho? You can park at the house, no problem. Got a pretty decent paved pad in front of the garage, plenty of space. No sewer hook up though.



So I looked up the weather stats for Elmira, looks like it really starts warming up in April. Climate data says the average high is 44 for march, 58 for april. Is that about when it actually stops being crazy? Don't need a sewer hookup, I can just feed the highway some nitrogen... water pump is busted so the only thing I'd use the toilet in the RV for is piss.



DrewSTNY said:


> Not too worried about getting paid, would be cool to see another old truck get more life.
> 
> Are you handy construction type tools? Maybe we can work something out in trade.



If you mean do I have extra tools- I wish. All I've got is some ratchets and sockets. If you mean work, I've done interior renovation and fencing. Full disclaimer I'm not very good, but under the capitalist protestant work ethic standards I would be considered a hard worker. I haven't had any problems with general handy stuff like resealing doors, caulking, painting (though I'm not a good painter), cutting/placing trim, sealing drywall etc.


----------



## DrewSTNY

April is a pretty good month, March usually has a big snow later in the month as a last gasp before spring really kicks in. After Easter weekend should be good to come up.

Capitalist protestant types are a bitch to work for,but I'm a lazy bastard minarchist Jesus freak so we ought to get along fine. 

Hopefully, the dog doesn't try to eat you, she's a bit of a pain with people and animals - well pretty much anything that moves - but she's good, just a pup.

Unless it's majorly broke, which I highly doubt since you just took it on a long trip, we should be able to figure it out over a weekend or a week, whichever. I have an engine hoist if major surgery is called for.


----------



## Grubblin

I've noticed a couple of people say if it isn't broke don't fix it. I follow that saying when I can, I believe in it when I have a place and resources, but I'm also very wary of it. The reason for that is that if you know it's "off" and don't fix it, the truck always seems to break at the most inopportune time possible. I'm thinking of two miles down a dirt road on BLM land and twenty miles along pavement to the nearest parts store OR in a two hour time limit parking, no overnight parking, towing enforced. I just got done hiding out in the truck in one of those parking lots last week bc it busted after the parts store closed. I thought if I stayed there maybe I could talk the police out of towing me. I got the part when the store opened, installed it and was off before anyone got called. Luckily it's not tourist season when their patrolling for that kind of thing. This doesn't sound to be the case with you since you're trying to fix it now but not fixing something that you know is wrong because it's still functioning to some degree can come back to bite you in the ass. It's bitten me more than I can remember anyway.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Grubblin said:


> I've noticed a couple of people say if it isn't broke don't fix it. I follow that saying when I can, I believe in it when I have a place and resources, but I'm also very wary of it. The reason for that is that if you know it's "off" and don't fix it, the truck always seems to break at the most inopportune time possible. I'm thinking of two miles down a dirt road on BLM land and twenty miles along pavement to the nearest parts store OR in a two hour time limit parking, no overnight parking, towing enforced. I just got done hiding out in the truck in one of those parking lots last week bc it busted after the parts store closed. I thought if I stayed there maybe I could talk the police out of towing me. I got the part when the store opened, installed it and was off before anyone got called. Luckily it's not tourist season when their patrolling for that kind of thing. This doesn't sound to be the case with you since you're trying to fix it now but not fixing something that you know is wrong because it's still functioning to some degree can come back to bite you in the ass. It's bitten me more than I can remember anyway.



Same here. We could do a whole thread of "worst break downs and where". Like the time out west near Amarillo when my truck lost a front brake caliper complete with mounting bracket locking up the front wheel solid in the middle of a 10k mile tramp around the country. Took two days to get fixed and had to catch a ride to Lubbock and back for parts! Or the time a rear axle bearing shit itself all over I44 east of St. Louis towing a camper. Took a week, another trailer, two more trucks, and a lot of phone calls to junk yards trying to find parts because you can't just buy BUDD hubs from the local parts store. And those are the ones that happened after I "fixed" the truck to make sure it was ready to go before I left town.

Zim is on the right track trying to make sure everything is OK, but there has to be a balance between "is she really dickered right frikin' now?" and "how much longer can she go until I really need to spend serious cashola?". He just drove a truck of unknown condition half way across the country without blowing up or catching on fire. I'd say that's pretty good.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> April is a pretty good month, March usually has a big snow later in the month as a last gasp before spring really kicks in. After Easter weekend should be good to come up.
> 
> Capitalist protestant types are a bitch to work for,but I'm a lazy bastard minarchist Jesus freak so we ought to get along fine.
> 
> Hopefully, the dog doesn't try to eat you, she's a bit of a pain with people and animals - well pretty much anything that moves - but she's good, just a pup.
> 
> Unless it's majorly broke, which I highly doubt since you just took it on a long trip, we should be able to figure it out over a weekend or a week, whichever. I have an engine hoist if major surgery is called for.



Would the first/second week of April be okay too? The only reason I ask is because it totally fucking sucks here and I want to get out ASAP. I'm so far into Appalachia that I hear people dropping racial slurs in everyday conversation. I'm still 100% on board if you want to wait though.

I'm good with puppers, they usually like me.

That was going to be my next question.. engine hoist 

Sounds like a solid plan though. 

Here are the pictures:

Radiator cap:











Coolant resevoir:






Dipstick:


----------



## DrewSTNY

If you want to shoot up here between Mar 27 and Apr 8, we should be able to make it work.

BTW, put some water in that radiator, man. *She's bone dry!!*

I usually fill it up to the top then find a hose to squeeze while I hold my other hand over the filler opening to burp the air out.

The other way is to just keep adding water when it's cold, before you go out for the day and let the air make its way out by itself.

The over flow tank looks completely normal. No oil at all there.

The oil on the dip stick looks perfect, too.

Go ahead and get that rad full up, no air, then see what happens.

EDIT: Spelling


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> If you want to shoot up here between Mar 27 and Apr 8, we should be able to make it work.
> 
> BTW, put some water in that radiator, man. *She's bone dry!!*
> 
> I usually fill it up to the top then find a hose to squeeze while I hold my other hand over the filler opening to burp the air out.
> 
> The other way is to just keep adding water when it's cold, before you go out for the day and let the air make its way out by itself.
> 
> The over flow tank looks completely normal. No oil at all there.
> 
> The oil on the dip stick looks perfect, too.
> 
> Go ahead and get that rad full up, no air, then see what happens.
> 
> EDIT: Spelling



Sounds like a plan, friend 

Took your advice and filled up the radiator, let it settle overnight to get the air out. No change in leaking. It's now down to the full line, color of the oil hasn't really changed. Spark plug boots are stuck so I need to fashion something to rip them off before I can get the compression/leakdown test done (and probably end up having to helicoil 'em)


----------



## DrewSTNY

Can you post the link to the video again? I looked through my emails, but the video was not preserved there. I didn't get a chance to look at it last night. I was making a tarp bivy sack for a demonstration I have to do tonight.

I got the idea from the forum - https://squattheplanet.com/threads/diy-tarp-bivy.30566/


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Can you post the link to the video again? I looked through my emails, but the video was not preserved there. I didn't get a chance to look at it last night. I was making a tarp bivy sack for a demonstration I have to do tonight.
> 
> I got the idea from the forum - https://squattheplanet.com/threads/diy-tarp-bivy.30566/



Sounds like a fun demonstration, what's it for?



I grabbed my service manual, popped the hood, started the engine and sat down in front of it. It took about 5 minutes of attentive listening, but I think it's coming from the fan belt. That or the carb.


----------



## DrewSTNY

OK. I just listened to it on the laptop speakers, but I am going to have to plug in to pay attention better. I don't have my headphones with me at the moment.

Fan belts can make weird noises, for certain. The pulleys can be glazed and make new belts noisy which is really irritating. Old belts get dry and creaky, makes it sound like an old mattress rolling around under the hood.

The video for the bivy mentioned that he had seen scout troops with these and I thought it would be a good idea to encourage the boys to make some of their own gear. It saves $$ and gives them ownership of their stuff which is cool no matter where you are coming from. It does pack up small; for about a pound of weight, you've got a pretty rock solid and stealthy shelter if you use an earth-toned tarp. I'd like to try the Tyvek version, but something would have to be done with the white fabric. I wonder if it takes paint well?


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> OK. I just listened to it on the laptop speakers, but I am going to have to plug in to pay attention better. I don't have my headphones with me at the moment.
> 
> Fan belts can make weird noises, for certain. The pulleys can be glazed and make new belts noisy which is really irritating. Old belts get dry and creaky, makes it sound like an old mattress rolling around under the hood.
> 
> The video for the bivy mentioned that he had seen scout troops with these and I thought it would be a good idea to encourage the boys to make some of their own gear. It saves $$ and gives them ownership of their stuff which is cool no matter where you are coming from. It does pack up small; for about a pound of weight, you've got a pretty rock solid and stealthy shelter if you use an earth-toned tarp. I'd like to try the Tyvek version, but something would have to be done with the white fabric. I wonder if it takes paint well?



I had to put my headphones on max volume to hear it (but my hearing is bad, and they aren't very loud)

Maybe that's where the squeaking is coming from then...

I've been trying to capture the misfiring at cold idle on camera but it's eluding me so far. I know it's misfiring though. The whole rig vibrates as the engine emits this deep, drawn out, powerful, earthy, thunderous rumble that makes it sound like the engine is going to explode. I can feel it in the steering wheel, I can feel it on my ass, I can feel it in the stick, I can feel it in the back of the RV - 20 feet from the engine!

Encouraging kids to make their own gear is a great idea! Wouldn't painting it remove any breathability it had though? Either way encouraging the kids to have ownership overing their own stuff I can 100% get behind. Makes them feel a lot more self reliant I'm betting.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Sounds like the opening to Fellowship of the Rings 

It's either the plugs or wires. If it goes away after its warm, I would probably bet on the plugs, but replacing both shouldn't really break the bank.

That motor from that age, if I remember right, the parts truck was an 84, when idling, it's quite tractor like and shakes everything. A dead miss will be accented on that motor since you will be running on 3 cylinders. I wonder what the condition of the motor mounts are?


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Sounds like the opening to Fellowship of the Rings
> 
> It's either the plugs or wires. If it goes away after its warm, I would probably bet on the plugs, but replacing both shouldn't really break the bank.



Bahahaha yep!

I've got a video of it, now I've just gotta stabilize it. I couldn't capture the noise because of the low frequency, but I was able to capture the engine rocking back and forth when it happens. It just rocks back and forth the same way it does when I turn the engine off (which, by the way, it rocks so hard it looks like the engine will fall out of the fucking vehicle) Here's the weird thing, now it's doing it only after I disengage the cold idle choke mechanism. But it will still do it when revved up, as long as the choke mechanism is off. Just waiting to get paid tomorrow so I can pickup all the shit I need.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.

A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.
> 
> A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.



Yeah I've got my vacuum diagram in my service manual, and I'm gonna go through the vacuum system. The High Altitude vacuum control unit for the carb isn't hooked up to anything either...



Here's a way better video


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.
> 
> A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.



I pulled the air filter and went through it with my vacuum diagram. All I can say is that every hose needs to be replaced because pretty much all of them are leaking.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Honestly, doesn't sound too bad. Probably an exhaust leak, a vacuum leak or two. The change in rpm when you are pressing on the brake is from the brake booster recharging. It's probably a bit weak with any vacuum leaks.

The valves are wanting adjusting.

But again overall, that's pretty much the tractor engine sound those old trucks have. Lots of torque for a 4 cylinder and definitely a rattle box. If you know anyone with an older 2.5L Jeep with the carb or the early injection, it will sound very similar.



Looks like a good tutorial on adjusting the valves. I used to do this all the time on my Volkies and early Hyundais. I prefer to adjust the valves closed like they show in the video.



Is a video of an LC built engine running open headers, but you can hear how every cylinder hits pretty hard. I would guess your valves are really loose and have not been adjusted ever.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Listened to your video again, and, honestly, I would do the regular maintenance items (plugs, cap, rotor, wires, filters, adjust the valves, adjust the carb, replace the hoses) and give her hell. I really think that after you nail down all the stuff that hasn't been done in 20 years, you are going to have a really solid little truck there.

If you want to swing up for the next warm weekend to have someone look over your shoulder, there's a spot here for you. Daily highs are near 50 every day for the rest of the month if you believe Accuweather.

Do you have any interest in hot glass? I know a artist or two in the area. Not so in touch with the blacksmiths though for hot iron.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Honestly, doesn't sound too bad. Probably an exhaust leak, a vacuum leak or two. The change in rpm when you are pressing on the brake is from the brake booster recharging. It's probably a bit weak with any vacuum leaks.
> 
> The valves are wanting adjusting.
> 
> But again overall, that's pretty much the tractor engine sound those old trucks have. Lots of torque for a 4 cylinder and definitely a rattle box. If you know anyone with an older 2.5L Jeep with the carb or the early injection, it will sound very similar.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a good tutorial on adjusting the valves. I used to do this all the time on my Volkies and early Hyundais. I prefer to adjust the valves closed like they show in the video.
> 
> 
> 
> Is a video of an LC built engine running open headers, but you can hear how every cylinder hits pretty hard. I would guess your valves are really loose and have not been adjusted ever.




You're like the dad I never had. I'll adjust the valves when I do the plugs/cap/rotor/wires/hoses after I get paid tomorrow. What kind of VWs did you have?



DrewSTNY said:


> Listened to your video again, and, honestly, I would do the regular maintenance items (plugs, cap, rotor, wires, filters, adjust the valves, adjust the carb, replace the hoses) and give her hell. I really think that after you nail down all the stuff that hasn't been done in 20 years, you are going to have a really solid little truck there.
> 
> If you want to swing up for the next warm weekend to have someone look over your shoulder, there's a spot here for you. Daily highs are near 50 every day for the rest of the month if you believe Accuweather.
> 
> Do you have any interest in hot glass? I know a artist or two in the area. Not so in touch with the blacksmiths though for hot iron.



The plot thickens! I ran into a 22R/E expert on the internet and he said the same thing: the valves need to be adjusted. But he also told me to take the engine out and pressure wash it, and he said that having the valves adjusted would "buy me time until a rebuild". Mysterious.

Oil pan gasket, timing chain and possibly rear main seal need to be replaced, and for the rear main seal and oil pan (without dropping the front differential) the engine's gotta come out. It's probably also going to develop more leaks if I wash the engine and don't replace the gasket on the block where all that oil is built up. Also I don't want to wash it by myself, 'cause I might hydrolock it by accident. Baby steps where complete catastrophe is possible.

Also, I think I found the source of the misfiring. This thing that I thought used to be the cruise control, is actually the high altitude control system, and it's totally disconnected, which richens out the fuel mixture like crazy, advances the timing by 6 degrees, and is creating a vacuum leak on the carb. I'm gonna hook it all up tomorrow.







I'll swing up there when the weather looks good and the stars align  Is it okay if my partner comes too? She likes working on the engine and wants to learn too. PM me your address/phone # and beer of choice (if you drink; I don't except for a beer here and there... except at the jambo) and also your favorite meal. I'll toot my own horn and say I'm a pretty good cook.

I certainly hope it will all be in good shape. I always try to plan for the worst so I don't have to worry about it though - If it dies on the stand, is there a good machine shop near you? If it had to be rebuilt, I would have the money for it, but I would also be in your driveway for about 2 weeks (I figure max 4 days for parts express shipping, 1 day to remove and 2 days to drop in, 1 week for the machine shop) which you might not be cool with. In any case though I think I'd have to _really_ fuck up to kill it. 22Rs do take some really brutal neglect and keep going.

I do have an interest in hot glass! I don't know anything about it aside from what I've picked up seeing other people do it - but it's super awesome, haha!


----------



## DrewSTNY

That was no expert in my opinion. Adjusting valves are part of regular maintenance and if they have never been done, then they are going to be way out. However, they may have had a modicum of truth in their statement in that if the valves have been neglected for years, then they will need to be re-ground because the seats could be messed up, but that would more likely be from tight valves, not loose ones. I would do the adjustment and see how she reacts to having someone love on her.

Again, saying that performing regular maintenance will only delay the inevitable is just stating the obvious. Eventually, that motor will need to have a good rebuild, but it should go at least another 80k before that.

Spraying the motor down with a good engine degreaser and pressure washing that off is a good idea though. Just make sure to put a bag around the distributor. You will probably have to hose the wires down with WD-40 afterward to get her to run smooth until the water is driven out.

Yes, the engine has to come out to do the rear main. That's a good time to replace the clutch too.

You might not be able to do the oil pan gasket with the engine installed depending on how close it is mounted to the front cross member. Could try loosening the motor from the engine mounts and lifting it with a hoist to get clearance.

There are a few shops around, I haven't have to do much engine work, but I know a few guys that should be able to hook us up with someone good and cheap. I know at least one guy that used to work for beer, but I don't know if he is still taking that form of payment.

Of course your partner is more than welcome to join you! We can hangout and swap stories. I like a good bourbon or scotch over beer, if that's OK. There's a brewery around the corner we can try out and there is a distillery in town that I have been itching to go visit. I have taste tested some of the products from both, but have not gone to their store fronts. I don't drink much unless I am at the farm working crops, it's part of the therapy. I go up there to escape my real job, or maybe working at the farm is my real job and I just work as an enginerd to pay the bills?


----------



## autumn

Hey I don't have time for a fully reply because I'm working on the RV and also have to get a million other things done, but I pulled the spark plugs and all I can say is... autoignition, and EXTREME carbon buildup, so bad that it stripped the threads.

I will reply to you and update with pictures and details later.


----------



## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Hey I don't have time for a fully reply because I'm working on the RV and also have to get a million other things done, but I pulled the spark plugs and all I can say is... autoignition, and EXTREME carbon buildup, so bad that it stripped the threads.
> 
> I will reply to you and update with pictures and details later.



Oh, man. That sucks. Sorry. Did any of them come out without taking the threads with them?

Pix will be good. At least we can have a look and see what kind of story they are telling.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Oh, man. That sucks. Sorry. Did any of them come out without taking the threads with them?
> 
> Pix will be good. At least we can have a look and see what kind of story they are telling.



I did successfully replace them, but it took 3 hours of finagling them, next time (if there is a next time) they'll have to be helicoiled. Unfortunately, I got so distracted by having to force them in that I left them at the factory gap, which is 0.036", when it should be 0.032"

Here's one picture to start. They all look like this:






Looks like detonation to me but I also don't know what I'm talking about


----------



## autumn

Oh, and.. I can't believe this one. Look:


----------



## autumn

The threads on the spark plugs are fine, but I can promise you that the threads on the engine are wrecked. That's also after I cleaned them up a little bit with a wire brush out of curiosity.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Not sure about the second one. The first looks like it was running lean for sure, so ya, ping city. Second one....Mmm rings getting iffy?

If they all look similar to the first, I would say fixing the vacuum leaks may take care of the build up. They should be a bit more brown. We can stick some helicoils in them while you're here if you want.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Not sure about the second one. The first looks like it was running lean for sure, so ya, ping city. Second one....Mmm rings getting iffy?
> 
> If they all look similar to the first, I would say fixing the vacuum leaks may take care of the build up. They should be a bit more brown. We can stick some helicoils in them while you're here if you want.



Ah. I looked at my service manual for reference, it showed lean as being a smooth white and autoignition as being that corroded, crusty white. I guess it's all up in the air since they probably haven't been changed in a couple of decades anyway. Is the manual wrong though?

I got some of the hosing I need to fix the vacuum leaks. I'm stopping for tonight. Tomorrow it will be nice and warm, 74, so I'll drive her down the street to the auto parts store, fix the vacuum leaks and adjust the valves. I had to put the distributor cap and rotor on order so I'll be doing that while I'm parked there too. I'm glad your analysis isn't as doom and gloom as my initial diagnosis was.


----------



## DrewSTNY

Pre-detonation can do all kinds of things to the plug, but the classic is having the ground burned away and the end of the plug just about destroyed. 

Here's a good picture of what I was always taught:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg

And here's another good one that has a lot of detail:

http://bustekhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Spark-Plug-Condition-Chart-1.png

This one is probably the best I have seen the the range of conditions.

To me, it looks like you have a lot a ash deposits which can be weak valve guide seals, but I would run the new set of plugs for a bit then check to see the condition of the plugs before jumping to any conclusions.


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> That was no expert in my opinion. Adjusting valves are part of regular maintenance and if they have never been done, then they are going to be way out. However, they may have had a modicum of truth in their statement in that if the valves have been neglected for years, then they will need to be re-ground because the seats could be messed up, but that would more likely be from tight valves, not loose ones. I would do the adjustment and see how she reacts to having someone love on her.
> 
> Again, saying that performing regular maintenance will only delay the inevitable is just stating the obvious. Eventually, that motor will need to have a good rebuild, but it should go at least another 80k before that.
> 
> Spraying the motor down with a good engine degreaser and pressure washing that off is a good idea though. Just make sure to put a bag around the distributor. You will probably have to hose the wires down with WD-40 afterward to get her to run smooth until the water is driven out.
> 
> Yes, the engine has to come out to do the rear main. That's a good time to replace the clutch too.
> 
> You might not be able to do the oil pan gasket with the engine installed depending on how close it is mounted to the front cross member. Could try loosening the motor from the engine mounts and lifting it with a hoist to get clearance.
> 
> There are a few shops around, I haven't have to do much engine work, but I know a few guys that should be able to hook us up with someone good and cheap. I know at least one guy that used to work for beer, but I don't know if he is still taking that form of payment.
> 
> Of course your partner is more than welcome to join you! We can hangout and swap stories. I like a good bourbon or scotch over beer, if that's OK. There's a brewery around the corner we can try out and there is a distillery in town that I have been itching to go visit. I have taste tested some of the products from both, but have not gone to their store fronts. I don't drink much unless I am at the farm working crops, it's part of the therapy. I go up there to escape my real job, or maybe working at the farm is my real job and I just work as an enginerd to pay the bills?



That's just my aspie sensibilities. And it's kinda funny that I didn't realize that at first. What he was saying was basically "a good way to damage the engine is by running it."

So take the carb and battery off, put a bag around the distributor, and pressure wash it. I'm immensely happy about not having to deal with sensors and sensitive electronics on this old engine. Should I cover the starter too?

If we were going to drop the engine out anyway, how much extra time would it take to replace the clutch, do a ring job, replace any burnt valves and check clearances? Maybe even polish the crank, but I don't know how involved any of this is. My guess is that with 112k the cylinders only need to be honed and it doesn't need professional machining, right?

While sending the engine off to a machine shop and having it rebuilt would be great peace of mind, I've read around and it seems the turnaround would be months, and I called a shop today and they quoted me a range of $1300-2600 which is pretty 'ouch' compared to the cost of rings, a couple of valves, gasket set etc, plus some good food, good scotch and labor  But then, I don't know if that's something that can be banged out in an afternoon, or if it's such a meticulous process that it would take a week to do. I watched a machinist do his thing on youtube last night and saw him play with 0.1mm clearances on thrust washers. That was a racing engine though, for a car probably designed to hit >150mph.



DrewSTNY said:


> Pre-detonation can do all kinds of things to the plug, but the classic is having the ground burned away and the end of the plug just about destroyed.
> 
> Here's a good picture of what I was always taught:
> 
> http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg
> 
> And here's another good one that has a lot of detail:
> 
> http://bustekhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Spark-Plug-Condition-Chart-1.png
> 
> This one is probably the best I have seen the the range of conditions.
> 
> To me, it looks like you have a lot a ash deposits which can be weak valve guide seals, but I would run the new set of plugs for a bit then check to see the condition of the plugs before jumping to any conclusions.



Wow, so I guess, like everything else I've discovered about engines, it's much more complicated than it appears. That diagram is completely different from my manual, which shows detonation as that corroded white ashy look, but, obviously, I definitely trust you.

Hopefully they won't come out so lean after I fix the vacuum leaks & HAC lean mixture/timing advance.

I'm just going to rip the plugs back out and fix the gap, then chase them and pray they don't need to be coiled yet. Not gapping them was probably the dumbest mistake I've made in a while. I was also putting off the compression and leakdown test until after I replaced everything, then failed to realize that would be hard to do with damaged threads. So I'll do that then too.

I'll update tomorrow after I get all the work done! I'm very excited about it.


----------



## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> That's just my aspie sensibilities. And it's kinda funny that I didn't realize that at first. What he was saying was basically "a good way to damage the engine is by running it."



You're not too far up the aspie curve. I've known a few as there are a lot of people on the "spectrum" up here. It really pisses me off that people pass autism off as some random occurrence and won't even consider that all the vaccines and drugs we pump into our kids when they are young MIGHT actually be causing a lot of it. 



zim said:


> So take the carb and battery off, put a bag around the distributor, and pressure wash it. I'm immensely happy about not having to deal with sensors and sensitive electronics on this old engine. Should I cover the starter too?



You can just take the air cleaner off and put a bag over the carb or stuff rags down the throat, or both. Just trying to keep water out of the engine and ignition.



zim said:


> If we were going to drop the engine out anyway, how much extra time would it take to replace the clutch, do a ring job, replace any burnt valves and check clearances? Maybe even polish the crank, but I don't know how involved any of this is. My guess is that with 112k the cylinders only need to be honed and it doesn't need professional machining, right?
> 
> While sending the engine off to a machine shop and having it rebuilt would be great peace of mind, I've read around and it seems the turnaround would be months, and I called a shop today and they quoted me a range of $1300-2600 which is pretty 'ouch' compared to the cost of rings, a couple of valves, gasket set etc, plus some good food, good scotch and labor  But then, I don't know if that's something that can be banged out in an afternoon, or if it's such a meticulous process that it would take a week to do. I watched a machinist do his thing on youtube last night and saw him play with 0.1mm clearances on thrust washers. That was a racing engine though, for a car probably designed to hit >150mph.



Lol. You are ambitious! My body is aching thinking about pulling a motor. Anyway, once the engine is out, which can take all day, the clutch is easy and takes about 15 minutes. Rings are a bit more involved with pulling the caps off the rods and protecting the crank journals. If we get some bearing measurements, we can decide what to do with them. Chances are if the oil pressure is good, the crank is probably fine. I usually have a shop do the valves. I'm too impatient to regrind and lap the valves. While the head is at the shop, we can have it checked to make sure it isn't cracked or warped. I do have an engine stand, so working on it is easy once it is out and on the stand.

My biggest fear pulling a motor is taking the exhaust off, which can/will break a stud off in the head and I suck at drilling and taping out broken studs.

So with an engine pull, I would plan on at least three days, One to pull it, one to fix it, one to put it back, and may be a forth day to drink until we forget about how much the body aches.



zim said:


> Wow, so I guess, like everything else I've discovered about engines, it's much more complicated than it appears. That diagram is completely different from my manual, which shows detonation as that corroded white ashy look, but, obviously, I definitely trust you.
> 
> Hopefully they won't come out so lean after I fix the vacuum leaks & HAC lean mixture/timing advance.
> 
> I'm just going to rip the plugs back out and fix the gap, then chase them and pray they don't need to be coiled yet. Not gapping them was probably the dumbest mistake I've made in a while. I was also putting off the compression and leakdown test until after I replaced everything, then failed to realize that would be hard to do with damaged threads. So I'll do that then too.
> 
> I'll update tomorrow after I get all the work done! I'm very excited about it.



Engines are not all that complicated, there's just a lot of parts to it and it can be overwhelming at first. I learned by just doing one thing at a time and taking my time. It helped that my dad was into doing his own mechanic work and did an engine swap in a 74 Toyota Land Cruiser which I "helped" him with. 

A few years ago, I was able to do a body off redneck restore of a 1-ton Dodge diesel which was really cool, but I still hate body work with a passion. Finding non-textured, colored bed liner was a good thing.

When you are chasing the threads on the head make sure it is stone cold and you find good threads to start on. I have fucked up my share of spark plugs holes by cross threading plugs into them. Tends to make the spark plugs jump out of the motor when you are cruising down the highway and that's a real bitch.

As far as VW's, I've had a few bugs, a transporter van, Eurovan (my favorite), and currently, we have a diesel Jetta station wagon my wife drives.

Good food is always great, even if it's just burgers on the grill!


----------



## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> You're not too far up the aspie curve. I've known a few as there are a lot of people on the "spectrum" up here. It really pisses me off that people pass autism off as some random occurrence and won't even consider that all the vaccines and drugs we pump into our kids when they are young MIGHT actually be causing a lot of it.
> 
> 
> 
> You can just take the air cleaner off and put a bag over the carb or stuff rags down the throat, or both. Just trying to keep water out of the engine and ignition.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. You are ambitious! My body is aching thinking about pulling a motor. Anyway, once the engine is out, which can take all day, the clutch is easy and takes about 15 minutes. Rings are a bit more involved with pulling the caps off the rods and protecting the crank journals. If we get some bearing measurements, we can decide what to do with them. Chances are if the oil pressure is good, the crank is probably fine. I usually have a shop do the valves. I'm too impatient to regrind and lap the valves. While the head is at the shop, we can have it checked to make sure it isn't cracked or warped. I do have an engine stand, so working on it is easy once it is out and on the stand.
> 
> My biggest fear pulling a motor is taking the exhaust off, which can/will break a stud off in the head and I suck at drilling and taping out broken studs.



I'm probably not too impatient if given direction - unless it takes 6 hours. Oil pressure should be good, but I haven't tested it. What's the heavy lifting involved in taking the engine out? Unless.. you don't have a hydraulic hoist, in which case.. ouch. If we broke a stud off in the head, the worst case scenario is a new head. Pricey but if we can't get it out, it won't bankrupt me. The exhaust manifold is_ completely_ rusted out though.



> So with an engine pull, I would plan on at least three days, One to pull it, one to fix it, one to put it back, and may be a forth day to drink until we forget about how much the body aches.



Haha okay, I'm gonna go with you don't have a hoist. I looked it up and it seems to be about 320lbs. Holy fuck. Between 3 people that's still ~107lbs each. Between 4 people it would be much more manageable, but I'm guessing you don't have any manual-labor-working-hardass-bench-press-200lbs neighbors that absolutely wouldn't mind helping, heh. The only time I had a neighbor like that is when I never needed help lifting anything.



> Engines are not all that complicated, there's just a lot of parts to it and it can be overwhelming at first. I learned by just doing one thing at a time and taking my time. It helped that my dad was into doing his own mechanic work and did an engine swap in a 74 Toyota Land Cruiser which I "helped" him with
> 
> A few years ago, I was able to do a body off redneck restore of a 1-ton Dodge diesel which was really cool, but I still hate body work with a passion. Finding non-textured, colored bed liner was a good thing.
> 
> When you are chasing the threads on the head make sure it is stone cold and you find good threads to start on. I have fucked up my share of spark plugs holes by cross threading plugs into them. Tends to make the spark plugs jump out of the motor when you are cruising down the highway and that's a real bitch.
> 
> As far as VW's, I've had a few bugs, a transporter van, Eurovan (my favorite), and currently, we have a diesel Jetta station wagon my wife drives.
> 
> Good food is always great, even if it's just burgers on the grill!



I don't imagine I would like body work either. I've been meaning to sand down, prime and paint some surface rust under the hood but the thought doesn't appeal to me. I'd much rather be messing with the engine. How much body work did it take to get the dodge back in good order? Was it a totaled vehicle?

I didn't have to chase them thankfully but cylinder #2's hole was completely wrecked so I didn't go any further to #3 or #4. Somehow the spark plugs were gapped correctly to 32, not 36, I checked #1 and #2. I was in the process of doing a compression test before I decided that if the gaps are correct, the test isn't worth crossthreading them any further, and having to coil them if I chased them incorrectly and shredded metal.

First cylinder was 126 dry, 150 with oil, second cylinder was 135, didn't get to check with oil. So the first cylinder seems ok. The third would probably have been the worst, that's the one I pulled that ultra-carboned one out of. #1's spark plug threading is in perfect shape, probably because it's so easily accessible. I imagine the previous owner stripped #2 and #3 because they're hard to reach down there seated between the head and the exhaust manifold.

The distributor cap was not the correct cap. It had screw holes The one on the RV has clips, so I wrote down it's model number and will deal with it later.

The spark plugs came out very lean looking with the upper spark-jumps-to thingy already ash white. The rest of the plug just looked like a new plug without any discoloration or deposits. I properly vacuum plugged the HAC system and had a look over the entire vacuum system. I intended to fix it today but have decided to go a different route. I would need about $40 in vacuum hosing alone... so I am just going to buy a weber carb and get rid of all the emissions shit.

I don't think plugging the HAC made a difference in the leaning out because the engine doesn't sound any different and is still suffering from misfiring or autoignition. Probably a combination of the carb being really lean (which could just be because it's disgustingly dirty for a carb, completely covered in grime, dirt and grease) and the unadjusted valves, eh?

I was going to do the valve adjustment and bought the feeler gauges but realized the seal is probably 40 years old so I ordered a new valve cover seal for when I get in there. I've already cleaned the valve cover off with engine degreaser so I won't have to worry about any dirt etc getting down in there.

We can do burgers too. Do you like bacon cheeseburgers?

Is a eurovan like a type 2? I didn't know they made diesel jettas


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## DrewSTNY

Sounds like you are getting more comfortable.

If the engine does have to come out, I have the lift and a stand.

It's not the heavy lifting, it's more the crawling underneath to disconnect the transmission/drive shaft, then being bent over the motor for hours disconnecting everything.

I had it down to a science with the VW's. I could get the motor out in under 30 minutes. I know of people who could drop the motor out of a bug in 10 minutes.

The Weber kit will be pretty cool. I liked them if the application was correct. They had them for VW's, but it didn't really work for me. I ended up putting the stock fuel injection back in the Transporter I had. Went from being completely gutless to being a very respectable vehicle. I also had one on a Jeep and it worked really well, but I ran it too rich and washed out the piston rings doing 85 in 3rd gear.

The Dodge had quite a bit of rust and I was converting to a manual from auto so I had to fabricate the transmission tunnel. I welded in the floor pans and a bit on the rocker panels. I took steel from the engine donor to make patch panels. That was over 10 years ago and as far as I know, the truck is still being driven today although it's as rusty or more rusty than when I first got it. The body parts swapped pretty easy, it was really neat to find out that I could use body panels for like 20 year worth of trucks.


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## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Sounds like you are getting more comfortable.
> 
> If the engine does have to come out, I have the lift and a stand.
> 
> It's not the heavy lifting, it's more the crawling underneath to disconnect the transmission/drive shaft, then being bent over the motor for hours disconnecting everything.
> 
> I had it down to a science with the VW's. I could get the motor out in under 30 minutes. I know of people who could drop the motor out of a bug in 10 minutes.
> 
> The Weber kit will be pretty cool. I liked them if the application was correct. They had them for VW's, but it didn't really work for me. I ended up putting the stock fuel injection back in the Transporter I had. Went from being completely gutless to being a very respectable vehicle. I also had one on a Jeep and it worked really well, but I ran it too rich and washed out the piston rings doing 85 in 3rd gear.
> 
> The Dodge had quite a bit of rust and I was converting to a manual from auto so I had to fabricate the transmission tunnel. I welded in the floor pans and a bit on the rocker panels. I took steel from the engine donor to make patch panels. That was over 10 years ago and as far as I know, the truck is still being driven today although it's as rusty or more rusty than when I first got it. The body parts swapped pretty easy, it was really neat to find out that I could use body panels for like 20 year worth of trucks.



W...what? I was watching youtube videos about random mechanical crap and ended up learning about how modern VW engines are apparently so poorly designed that you have to take the engine out to do a head gasket. And apparently on the audis you have to pull the block off I think to swap the timing chain. They thought they had over-engineered their chains so that they never need replacing, but it ended up being a routine maintenance item anyway.

Anyway... are the older VW engines also really hard to work on? In any case that's extremely impressive. 30 minutes to get an engine on a stand. Maybe I'll be there someday with the 22R. About how long would you say it took you to end up at a point of reasonable mechanical knowledge? To accurately diagnose problems, know what to fix, how to fix it, and so on?

I am getting much more comfortable! It's no longer intimidating when you know what mostly everything is and what it does, and which other systems it's connected to. The superficiality of my understanding is a given - I couldn't tell you how any of this stuff works to any degree of sophistication ("the rotor button spins.. cause the distributor.. shaft.. is geared... uh.. yeah.. timing.") but being able to put names to things and words to concepts goes a long way towards confidence.

I found out the hard way today that, unlike the regular pickups, to change the fuel filter in a Sunrader you have to drop the fuel tank.

Also, sorry, I edited my post after you read it. I asked if you like bacon cheeseburgers. Also, do you like tofu? I lived with a very strict vegetarian (no meat in her house) for a while and got very good at making general tso's tofu. I also asked in my edit "Is a eurovan like a type 2? I didn't know they made diesel jettas"

There are weber kits on ebay (they seem to not be the chinese knockoff) for $229, plus the $80 spiral adapter kit from LCE. I would much, much rather desmog the engine and part out all the emissions crap on ebay for those with their old 'yotas still registered in California. If I give it a few months I can probably recover the cost. Only 2 vacuum hoses then, and no EGR. Their engine bay looks much cleaner... I want mine to be that roomy. I can rebuild the stock carb, give it an acid bath, get it good as new and sell it for $300 less than those shitty remanufactured ones, while still making a decent chunk of money.

Fixing that Dodge sounds like a crapload of work and a lot of welding. Definitely not up my alley... I've got a friend who moved to Detroit for welding work (I think they do auto welding) and is going to fix the frame for me. It's not rotting but it'll get there if I give it another 10 years I'm sure. You must've done a pretty spectacular job if that thing is still around and isn't much rustier than when you got it 10 years ago. What did you mean by this? "it was really neat to find out that I could use body panels for like 20 year worth of trucks."


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## autumn

Wait, 85mph in third gear? How does that even work?

And you did a carb conversion on a fuel injected vehicle? Holy shit, how long did that take?


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## autumn

Fuck!!! I hope I didn't mess up the clutch. It was really cold this morning and I didn't let anything warm up because I had to move it quickly. Even though I was riding the clutch at the biting point the whole rig was jerking forward like I was dumping it over and over.


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Fuck!!! I hope I didn't mess up the clutch. It was really cold this morning and I didn't let anything warm up because I had to move it quickly. Even though I was riding the clutch at the biting point the whole rig was jerking forward like I was dumping it over and over.



No damage, it was just cold and grabby. Happens all the time and gets more pronounced as the clutch wears. Nothing to worry about. 

Worry when you hit third or fourth gear and the clutch slips like a demon.


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Wait, 85mph in third gear? How does that even work?
> 
> And you did a carb conversion on a fuel injected vehicle? Holy shit, how long did that take?



The conversion was easy as I just grabbed everything from another van from the computer to the injectors and manifolds. I did have to sneak back in under the fence after they closed to get more parts I forgot... ::eyepatch::

Third gear and hold it to the floor because it wouldn't go fast enough. It was a surprise when it started slowing down and died... ::facepalm::


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> W...what? I was watching youtube videos about random mechanical crap and ended up learning about how modern VW engines are apparently so poorly designed that you have to take the engine out to do a head gasket. And apparently on the audis you have to pull the block off I think to swap the timing chain. They thought they had over-engineered their chains so that they never need replacing, but it ended up being a routine maintenance item anyway.
> 
> Anyway... are the older VW engines also really hard to work on? In any case that's extremely impressive. 30 minutes to get an engine on a stand. Maybe I'll be there someday with the 22R. About how long would you say it took you to end up at a point of reasonable mechanical knowledge? To accurately diagnose problems, know what to fix, how to fix it, and so on?
> 
> I am getting much more comfortable! It's no longer intimidating when you know what mostly everything is and what it does, and which other systems it's connected to. The superficiality of my understanding is a given - I couldn't tell you how any of this stuff works to any degree of sophistication ("the rotor button spins.. cause the distributor.. shaft.. is geared... uh.. yeah.. timing.") but being able to put names to things and words to concepts goes a long way towards confidence.
> 
> I found out the hard way today that, unlike the regular pickups, to change the fuel filter in a Sunrader you have to drop the fuel tank.
> 
> Also, sorry, I edited my post after you read it. I asked if you like bacon cheeseburgers. Also, do you like tofu? I lived with a very strict vegetarian (no meat in her house) for a while and got very good at making general tso's tofu. I also asked in my edit "Is a eurovan like a type 2? I didn't know they made diesel jettas"
> 
> There are weber kits on ebay (they seem to not be the chinese knockoff) for $229, plus the $80 spiral adapter kit from LCE. I would much, much rather desmog the engine and part out all the emissions crap on ebay for those with their old 'yotas still registered in California. If I give it a few months I can probably recover the cost. Only 2 vacuum hoses then, and no EGR. Their engine bay looks much cleaner... I want mine to be that roomy. I can rebuild the stock carb, give it an acid bath, get it good as new and sell it for $300 less than those shitty remanufactured ones, while still making a decent chunk of money.
> 
> Fixing that Dodge sounds like a crapload of work and a lot of welding. Definitely not up my alley... I've got a friend who moved to Detroit for welding work (I think they do auto welding) and is going to fix the frame for me. It's not rotting but it'll get there if I give it another 10 years I'm sure. You must've done a pretty spectacular job if that thing is still around and isn't much rustier than when you got it 10 years ago. What did you mean by this? "it was really neat to find out that I could use body panels for like 20 year worth of trucks."




VW has interesting engineering for certain, but the older engines from the type 1, 2 and 3 are basically glorified lawnmower engines.

The Eurovan was the replacement for the Vanagon, I believe. It was the first front engine VW van that I know of. They used the Audi 5 cylinder to power it. Mine had a 5 speed transmission which was totally cool. I could put full 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back if I took out the seats, which was a big deal for a mid-size/mini-van.

I'm into eating anything that doesn't eat me first. Not a big fan of tofu due to the texture you usually get, but I'm open to anything.

The price of the Weber sounds about right, $2-300 for the kit.


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## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> No damage, it was just cold and grabby. Happens all the time and gets more pronounced as the clutch wears. Nothing to worry about.
> 
> Worry when you hit third or fourth gear and the clutch slips like a demon.



That's relieving.



DrewSTNY said:


> VW has interesting engineering for certain, but the older engines from the type 1, 2 and 3 are basically glorified lawnmower engines.
> 
> The Eurovan was the replacement for the Vanagon, I believe. It was the first front engine VW van that I know of. They used the Audi 5 cylinder to power it. Mine had a 5 speed transmission which was totally cool. I could put full 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back if I took out the seats, which was a big deal for a mid-size/mini-van.
> 
> I'm into eating anything that doesn't eat me first. Not a big fan of tofu due to the texture you usually get, but I'm open to anything.
> 
> The price of the Weber sounds about right, $2-300 for the kit.



Glorified lawnmower engines. That's my kind of engine. I had a '78 puch maxi that threw it's single cylinder connecting rod the day I got it. I would've rebuilt it if I didn't need $500 in specialized moped tools. I've heard that older VW engines are incredibly expensive to maintain because the only place that you can find parts is Brazil. It's a shame if it's true.

5 speeds get much better gas mileage from what I've heard. If I suddenly came into a boatload of money one of the first things I'd do is put a 5 speed in the Sunrader.

I discovered today that apparently Weber and SOLEX or whatever are now owned by the same company. They license out the Weber brand and allow old solex factories in south america to manufacture crappy carbs under the Weber name. The actual, manufactured in Spain ones, are considerably more expensive. The full conversion kit for the actual weber (including the fuel pressure regulator and spiral adapter) is almost $500. LCE told me that they discovered this when someone ordered a "weber" on ebay and then needed weber jets from LCE, but they didn't even fit in the carb.

I generally don't like the texture of tofu, but if you properly drain it, bread it and deep fry it, it tastes less like a soy brick and a bit more like meat.

As far as the clutch and flywheel goes, how cheap is too cheap? As much as I would like to get the 'pro clutch + flywheel kit' from LCE, it's $600. I don't know if they were just trying to sell me shit but they told me that a 30lb flywheel would make getting into gear in an RV considerably easier.


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## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> The conversion was easy as I just grabbed everything from another van from the computer to the injectors and manifolds. I did have to sneak back in under the fence after they closed to get more parts I forgot... ::eyepatch::
> 
> Third gear and hold it to the floor because it wouldn't go fast enough. It was a surprise when it started slowing down and died... ::facepalm::



Wait so you were stealing the parts? Was it an abandoned van in an impound lot or something?

That only raises more questions, why weren't you in 4th if you were going 85mph?! Did it have really funky gearing or something? Was it one of those automatic 3 speeds?


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## autumn

So I talked to a machinist near Elmira. He said to deck and grind the head it'd be about $300, I think that was including the 1 hour labor ($70) to inspect it and figure out what needs to be done. He said he used to get 22Rs in there a lot because people would use them for drag racing (wtf?) and that after 100k the cylinders will probably need to be bored but that we can check it ourselves and see. He said a "to be safe" estimate for a total block rebuild (not including reassembly) would be $1000 in labor plus parts - that includes polishing the crank, any boring needed, etc. He also said that he can get the same parts that LCEngineering uses for cheaper.


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> So I talked to a machinist near Elmira. He said to deck and grind the head it'd be about $300, I think that was including the 1 hour labor ($70) to inspect it and figure out what needs to be done. He said he used to get 22Rs in there a lot because people would use them for drag racing (wtf?) and that after 100k the cylinders will probably need to be bored but that we can check it ourselves and see. He said a "to be safe" estimate for a total block rebuild (not including reassembly) would be $1000 in labor plus parts - that includes polishing the crank, any boring needed, etc. He also said that he can get the same parts that LCEngineering uses for cheaper.



Cool. That's good to know. What was the name of the shop?


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Wait so you were stealing the parts? Was it an abandoned van in an impound lot or something?
> 
> That only raises more questions, why weren't you in 4th if you were going 85mph?! Did it have really funky gearing or something? Was it one of those automatic 3 speeds?



It was in the junk yard and I bought most of it and was going through the parts realizing that I forgot something stupid and was too impatient to wait until the opened up the next day. So yeah, I stole what I needed.

The Jeep was just me being stupid and impatient, was giving her a good hot supper because I was in a hurry and poof went the rings. It was 9F outside and I know better, but didn't expect it to dump in two miles. I had a really big power jet on the carb that was great when warm, but was not so good in the cold.


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## autumn

DrewSTNY said:


> Cool. That's good to know. What was the name of the shop?



Pike's Engine & Machine Shop. Unfortunately it's in Watkins Glen, which appears to be about 20 miles away. I can pay for the gas, but if you don't want to drive up there I'm sure I can find someone on craigslist to do it, or worst case scenario rent a truck. I wasn't able to find a machine shop closer than that.



DrewSTNY said:


> It was in the junk yard and I bought most of it and was going through the parts realizing that I forgot something stupid and was too impatient to wait until the opened up the next day. So yeah, I stole what I needed.
> 
> The Jeep was just me being stupid and impatient, was giving her a good hot supper because I was in a hurry and poof went the rings. It was 9F outside and I know better, but didn't expect it to dump in two miles. I had a really big power jet on the carb that was great when warm, but was not so good in the cold.



That's pretty funny. I've always thought it was kind of strange that junkyards are essentially garbage dumps with barbed wire fencing and security cameras. The one near me is, at least. I wish I could find one with an old toyota.

By power jet do you mean a separate jet that isn't used unless you floor it? Was it because the engine was cold so the oil wasn't circulating well, and the compression rings got blown apart by the extra heat?


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## autumn

Full weber conversion kit ordered! Can't wait to tear out the rest of the emissions crap, and tear into the old carb!

For the clutch, are there any 'wear items' I should get other than the pilot bearing, release bearing, input shaft seal? I'm going to get an OEM pressure plate & friction disc too, and figured I could just have the flywheel resurfaced at the same machine shop for less than the cost of a new one. Oh, and I'm going to pick up a new master cylinder and slave cylinder as 'just in case' items since they're so cheap.


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## DrewSTNY

zim said:


> Full weber conversion kit ordered! Can't wait to tear out the rest of the emissions crap, and tear into the old carb!



Sweet. That's cool.



zim said:


> For the clutch, are there any 'wear items' I should get other than the pilot bearing, release bearing, input shaft seal? I'm going to get an OEM pressure plate & friction disc too, and figured I could just have the flywheel resurfaced at the same machine shop for less than the cost of a new one. Oh, and I'm going to pick up a new master cylinder and slave cylinder as 'just in case' items since they're so cheap.



That's about all for the clutch. Don't normally do the input shaft seal, but it's not a bad idea to have it just in case or put it in anyway since it's so hard to get to.

The power jet is the full throttle jet, yes. I had one that was too big and was dumping fuel like mad. Probably would have been great for a NOS setup, but not so much the way I was running.

Watkins Glen is no biggie. There may be a closer shop. I am going to check today to be sure, he was recommended by the guys at the farm.

The most popular junk yard around here has 7kV electrical fencing supposedly. I have not dared to test it, plus they have a really good chain link fence that is well maintained. Probably more for insurance liability than keeping people from stealing. Their prices are pretty cheap and they occasionally have older yotas in there. We can go check it out while you are here and see if anything hits your fancy.


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## AlwaysLost

zim said:


> I just bought a 1983 Toyota Sunrader. Here's a picture:
> 
> View attachment 35341
> 
> 
> The good: fiberglass is intact, no leaks, new vents, working water pump, radiant heater, new battery (had to replace the terminals, they were super ghetto rigged), all lights work, all "plumbing" (just tubes really) is good, it has a 1 ton dually 6 lug full floating rear axle, shower/toilet, fresh water tank, grey and black water tanks, working propane stove/oven. It's got some rust issues but a friend of mine is a welder and can fix it for me.
> 
> 112k miles original/never rebuilt, 22R engine, just drove it 1k miles from Arkansas to Virginia.
> 
> The bad: Electrical system is extremely ghetto. Had to fix the headlights on the way to VA. It's either leaking oil or burning oil. 1qt in 600 miles. I thought it was just a leak, but there's smoke coming out of the oil cap, so the piston rings are probably worn? That's big money 'cause I can't take the head off on my own yet. Maybe the PCV valve? Hoping to learn how to do everything myself but trying to swap piston rings as a first project seems suicidal. I figured for learning I'd pull a carb from a hilux in a junkyard and start with taking the carb apart. Not sure if I should just drop the money on an engine rebuild if the heads coming off anyway.
> 
> The ebrake doesn't work. Need to replace the cables. Gonna do that tomorrow, along with flushing the coolant system and changing the oil even though it's leaking all over the place.
> 
> It has a speed wobble. At around 60mph the front end starts wobbling. If I get passed by a semi it wobbles like crazy until I slow down to <40mph.
> 
> Since it only has 112k miles, would you recommend I have the piston rings swapped, valves lapped if they're leaking, get a full gasket set and a new timing belt, get new struts and shocks and hope the wobble is the shot suspension. It should've been done 60k miles ago anyway and my friend with an almost identical 'yota motorhome got them done in Maryland for $250 including parts.



I am going to get you some pink fuzzy dice for the rearview asap...


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## creature

also, if the RV version has an oil cooler in addition to the main radiator, check those lines, also..


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## creature

Hardcore thread..
Should almost be stickied..
I hope the rubbertrampers all get a look..

Just fucking zen with it : )


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## DrewSTNY

Maybe once we get the engine rebuild done and add that write up here. Right now, everything that has been going on could be a what to watch out for thread.


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## Grubblin

I pulled a part of an older post from @zim 

"I am getting much more comfortable! It's no longer intimidating when you know what mostly everything is and what it does, and which other systems it's connected to."

Here's out that knowledge can really help you out. When you go to a mechanic to pay for something you can't fix yourself, if you talk the talk and do it correctly, they know they can't fuck you over. Then you'll get a quote for the time and materials that they really think it'll take. You might be surprised at the instant bond that develops when the mechanic can talk to you like a colleague and not have to explain it as if you were an ordinary dumbass.


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## DrewSTNY

Grubblin said:


> I pulled a part of an older post from @zim
> 
> "I am getting much more comfortable! It's no longer intimidating when you know what mostly everything is and what it does, and which other systems it's connected to."
> 
> Here's out that knowledge can really help you out. When you go to a mechanic to pay for something you can't fix yourself, if you talk the talk and do it correctly, they know they can't fuck you over. Then you'll get a quote for the time and materials that they really think it'll take. You might be surprised at the instant bond that develops when the mechanic can talk to you like a colleague and not have to explain it as if you were an ordinary dumbass.


This is very true. The guys I use know I used to be a mechanic so they tend to play it pretty straight with me.


----------

