# The Watchtower



## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

Disclaimer: I respect everyone's rights to believe in whatever they want to believe. I just wish they'd respect my right to eat a breakfast sandwich in peace.

Loneliness sunk in today. Not in a sad way just in a, man I'm bored and wish I had someone other than Shelobs children to talk to, sort of way.

So, I decided to go meet some of the townies.

First, I ran into most of the local PD. They were nice and down to earth. Rare for cops. They genuinely seemed interested in me as a person and not just an inevitable statistic.

So having built a rapport with local law enforcement I thought things were going well.

So I decided to hit the quick e mart for a sausage biscuit with egg. I sat down out front to eat my first real meal in 3 days and enjoy a beautiful fall day.

Then, it all went horribly wrong. A sweet - 70 year old - Jehovah Trollady walks up to me. I say troll because she had no actual business at the quickiemart. She purchased neither gas nor sundry.

When I saw her, I thought maybe I was getting a kickdown.

Then, I saw the manilla folder of soul-sucking-propaganda and i got a pretty good idea of what was coming next.

Still, I was grateful for the human interaction even if it was with someone who peddled religion door to door like Tupperware. I would later regret this sentiment.

So, she pulls out her manifesto and asks me if I read the bible.

I smile at the gentle old lady and tell her that I'm catholic and that she is wasting her breath. Usually this sends all but the most determined Jehovah's packing...

Not this sweet albeit batshit-crazy old lady. She proceeds to tell me she was born Catholic and how the nuns were mean to her.

'Boohoo for your awful childhood' I'm thought 'Try having a heroin addict for a father.' I'll take nuns hitting me with rulers and catholic schoolgirls in short skirts any day. Those are kinky fantasies by today's standards.

So then, as I watch my breakfast sandwiches getting colder by the minute, she starts in on the evils of the catholic church. They've got some big problems yes but they also do more charity work than most protestants IMO. 

"Insulting someone's faith is not a good way to begin a sales negotiation." I tell her.

She's clueless. She asks me if she thought my preacher ever read the bible. I tell her that I don't go to church and that I don't believe in corporations shilling me religious pamphlets and tithing obligations. I thought for sure that would be enough for her to get the hint.

Nope.

But your Catholic? She replied.

How do you tell a small town cult member that you are the superstitious sort of backwoods Catholic who worships the black Madonna and makes crossroad deals?

So then she dropped the Jehovah's Witness Nuclear bomb on me.

Have you read the passage in John where the dark lord takes over the earth and it says the whole earth is being lied to?

I was now thoroughly defeated. I hung my head and looked sadly at my now soggy sandwiches. I thought for sure that she would now leave having completely crushing my soul.

But still, she continued. I picked up my cold sandwiches and walked away. 

Living in the Devils time? What a crackpot. When was Gods time? From what I've seen: its been murder, rape and enslavement for as long as humans have walked the earth.

Gods time was the 5 minutes that a coupla nudists resided in Eden. From what I can tell, the world has belonged to the devil ever since.

How do you deal with these nutjobs without bitchsmacking them across their wingnut mouths?


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## Tude (Sep 5, 2017)

I used to have a jackass and his minion stand 4 foot from the bus shelter downtown with a microphone yelling out verses and how we were all damned etc while minion walked around handing out stuff. I simply held up the hand and said PAGAN. hehe - he moved away like I had a disease. That whole show was annoying.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

Tude said:


> I used to have a jackass and his minion stand 4 foot from the bus shelter downtown with a microphone yelling out verses and how we were all damned etc while minion walked around handing out stuff. I simply held up the hand and said PAGAN. hehe - he moved away like I had a disease. That whole show was annoying.



Lmao I will try that next time thanks Tude!


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

*Tude, sorry fuggin autocorrect


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## iamwhatiam (Sep 5, 2017)

man..having been raised jehovah's witness i can tell you - you will never win a debate with them or get them to think for themselves. maybe the younger ones who haven't been thoroughly brainwashed yet.......just flat out say you ARE NOT INTERESTED... if they persist, your best bet to getting them to leave right away is to start shouting 666 and how you are a devout devil worshiper lol


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

iamwhatiam said:


> man..having been raised jehovah's witness i can tell you - you will never win a debate with them or get them to think for themselves. maybe the younger ones who haven't been thoroughly brainwashed yet.......just flat out say you ARE NOT INTERESTED... if they persist, your best bet to getting them to leave right away is to start shouting 666 and how you are a devout devil worshiper lol



Lol OK yeah she wasn't one for subtleties


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## nivoldoog (Sep 5, 2017)

I love those guys. Rarely they are cool, but if the ante I just bust out my bible and randomly open it up and go full soap box on them. Tho..

She ante to far off... The devil controls the earth and is in our house. (Mostly a trump thing, but also a jab at christians) Woman! This is why I don't participate in your world. I must still walk it, but I ante got to listen to you. Only side I gotta listen to is God and you ante him. Your judgements shall be noted and I now command you to get behind me!

It is funny how you can often easily defend yourself from their attacks with the bible. They talk a good game but as soon as you pull it on them they flee. Kinda makes me wonder what they are really trying to do?


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

nivoldoog said:


> I love those guys. Rarely they are cool, but if the ante I just bust out my bible and randomly open it up and go full soap box on them. Tho..
> 
> She ante to far off... The devil controls the earth and is in our house. (Mostly a trump thing, but also a jab at christians) Woman! This is why I donc't participate in your world. I must still walk it, but I ante got to listen to you. Only side I gotta listen to is God and you ante him. Your judgements shall be noted and I now command you to get behind me!
> 
> It is funny how you can often easily defend yourself from their attacks with the bible. They talk a good game but as soon as you pull it in them they flee. Kinda makes me wonder what they are really trying to do?



I just wanted to eat my sandwich lol. It took me 20 minutes to realize that short of me pulling a knife (didn't have one) she was never leaving.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

I just don't need a boring old book to worship, I can feel God in my heart (or I'm schizo) lol


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## nivoldoog (Sep 5, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> I just don't need a boring old book to worship, I can feel God in my heart (or I'm schizo) lol


Bingo! They often spend to much time "worshipping" the bible a book written by men and edited by king james, a non Christian. They worship this book to a point of false idol. The bible is said to be "Basic, intruction, before, leaving, earth." Key word "Basic". The advanced lessons can only learned by putting it to work. I found traveling to be a great course in advanced training. Because when you have to rely on god and have faith he WILL provide... blessing are aplenty. For I was hungry and I got fed, for I needed shelter and I was housed. They can't understand that we street people are his people. If Jesus came down right now, those people would likely mock him and tell him to get a job.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

nivoldoog said:


> Bingo! They often spend to much time "worshipping" the bible a book written by men and edited by king james, a non Christian. They worship this book to a point of false idol. The bible is said to be "Basic, intruction, before, leaving, earth." Key word "Basic". The advanced lessons can only learned by putting it to work. I found traveling to be a great course in advanced training. Because when you have to rely on god and have faith he WILL provide... blessing are aplenty. For I was hungry and I got fed, for I needed shelter and I was housed. They can't understand that we street people are his people. If Jesus came down right now, those people would likely mock him and tell him to get a job.



Lol yep they totally would


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## VikingAdventurer (Sep 5, 2017)

Take a DEEP breath, lean in uncomfortably close to their face, look them directly in the eyes, open your eyes REALLY wide, and just scream "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!" at the top of your lungs, making sure to drown out whatever they're saying.

If they don't leave before your first breath is out, take a second deep breath and repeat the process.

Repeat process as many times as is necessary.

I imagine most people will go away pretty quickly with that method.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

VikingAdventurer said:


> Take a DEEP breath, lean in uncomfortably close to their face, look them directly in the eyes, open your eyes REALLY wide, and just scream "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!" at the top of your lungs, making sure to drown out whatever they're saying.
> 
> I imagine most people will go away pretty quickly with that method.



Lmao I'm dying. She was 70 years old Vike. Her heart would have stopped... I admit I would have been less tactful with a younger person.


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## Odin (Sep 5, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> 'Boohoo for your awful childhood' I'm thought 'Try having a heroin addict for a father.' I'll take nuns hitting me with rulers and catholic schoolgirls in short skirts any day. Those are kinky fantasies by today's standards.



Its usually the Padre' in the rectory punishing your ass... ::wacky::




AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> I just don't need a boring old book to worship, I can feel God in my heart (or I'm schizo) lol



Odin is Schizo... So of course we would hear him together in my head brother. 



nivoldoog said:


> Bingo! They often spend to much time "worshipping" the bible a book written by men and edited by king james, a non Christian. They worship this book to a point of false idol. The bible is said to be "Basic, intruction, before, leaving, earth." Key word "Basic". The advanced lessons can only learned by putting it to work. I found traveling to be a great course in advanced training. Because when you have to rely on god and have faith he WILL provide... blessing are aplenty. For I was hungry and I got fed, for I needed shelter and I was housed. They can't understand that we street people are his people. If Jesus came down right now, those people would likely mock him and tell him to get a job.



Thank you for that... thanks OP for the thread. 

There is some good of humanity here yo! ::drinkingbuddy::


PS: @AlmostAlwaysLost  you ran into my memas' jehova twin sounds like... 

I know it takes a lot of patience.::


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

Odin said:


> Its usually the Padre' in the rectory punishing your ass... ::wacky::
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He he it wasn't so bad I got over it. She was a strange one lol.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 5, 2017)

Odin said:


> Its usually the Padre' in the rectory punishing your ass... ::wacky::
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Punished in the rectory lmao you all are killing me. Wrekt em? Damn near killed em.


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## Will Wood (Sep 5, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> Disclaimer: I respect everyone's rights to believe in whatever they want to believe. I just wish they'd respect my right to eat a breakfast sandwich in peace.
> 
> Loneliness sunk in today. Not in a sad way just in a, man I'm bored and wish I had someone other than Shelobs children to talk to, sort of way.
> 
> ...


I use this: I ask, can you compare the 4 gospels and tell me what the last thing Jesus said on the cross before he died?? Of the 4 gospels, the bible has him saying 3 different things before he dies. So, which one is right??


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## nivoldoog (Sep 6, 2017)

When a johova tries to convert a pastor... hilarious. He touches on a point I was trying to make. It is a personal relationship God seeks with us.


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## nivoldoog (Sep 6, 2017)

Will Wood said:


> I use this: I ask, can you compare the 4 gospels and tell me what the last thing Jesus said on the cross before he died?? Of the 4 gospels, the bible has him saying 3 different things before he dies. So, which one is right??



Interesting... I am looking into this one right meow.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

nivoldoog said:


> When a johova tries to convert a pastor... hilarious. He touches on a point I was trying to make. It is a personal relationship God seeks with us.




Epic video. I realized now that I screwed up the whole negotiation. I should have told her that I'd love to listen to her over breakfast if shed go buy me a diet Pepsi and a couple more breakfast sandwiches. Maybe a little whisky and cigs for after.


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## Coywolf (Sep 6, 2017)

I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people. 

I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).

If that doesn't work, or scare the shit out of them, causING the to immediate grasp their cross, I will tell them a REAL story. Not something out of a constantly edited book for the past 2000 years.

My story is about the destruction and genocide of an entire people in europe, by the christian and catholic church.

Pagans, druids, and most other old religions were stamped out during the rise of Christianity, killed for their beliefs. 

Then the Church did something that would solidify their efforts forever. They took the "old god", a horned and hoofed looking creature, and turnEd it into the most evIL and feared creature of THEIR religion....Satan.

Aint that some shit? Fuck organized religion.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

Coywolf said:


> I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people.
> 
> I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).
> 
> ...



Lol I always wondered why Christians think everyone is going to Hell aka Hel aka Helheim to sleep amidst the roots of Ygdrasil.


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## nivoldoog (Sep 6, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> Epic video. I realized now that I screwed up the whole negotiation. I should have told her that I'd love to listen to her over breakfast if shed go buy me a diet Pepsi and a couple more breakfast sandwiches. Maybe a little whisky and cigs for after.


I don't know.... screaming Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh seems like a good tactic to.

But he basically said what I said on how to handle them. If you flee from talking about God and the bible... who do you work for?


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## nivoldoog (Sep 6, 2017)

Coywolf said:


> I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people.
> 
> I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).
> 
> ...


Just had a convo about this with my cousin. He basically said what you said, including the part about the horned devil.


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## VikingAdventurer (Sep 6, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> Lol I always wondered why Christians think everyone is going to Hell aka Hel aka Helheim to sleep amidst the roots of Ygdrasil.



"Hell" is not the Same place as Hel or Helheim.

"Hell" is a concept invented by the church in order to terrify converts into blind obedience lest they suffer eternal torment, and they got the name of it by bastardizing the ancient norse name for the underworld.

Don't believe me? Find some mention of "hell" in the old testament, or even older, the Torah.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

VikingAdventurer said:


> "Hell" is not the Same place as Hel or Helheim.
> 
> "Hell" is a concept invented by the church in order to terrify converts into blind obedience lest they suffer eternal torment, and they got the name of it by bastardizing the ancient norse name for the underworld.
> 
> Don't believe me? Find some mention of "hell" in the old testament, or even older, the Torah.



Nope that s totally what I was getting at bro! Sheol (garbage pit) in the torah and Hades in the Greek bible.

The catholics edited in hell right around the time the Danes invaded England.

I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> Nope that s totally what I was getting at bro! Sheol (garbage pit) in the torah and Hades in the Greek bible.
> 
> The catholics edited in hell right around the time the Danes invaded England.
> 
> I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.



Well actually I agree with everyone on this thread.


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## DrewSTNY (Sep 6, 2017)

TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit.

Long version -

Coy, I agree about organized religion, but disagree about followers of Christ - ie. Christians. The early Christians were burned alive for their beliefs until Caesar figured out that co-opting Christianity as a religion was cheaper and more profitable to the empire. Thus, he created the church as a state organization and ordained pagan priests as the new christian clergy en mass. Every Judaic holiday was corrupted with pagan ritual in order to create an ecumenical abomination. That is why the orthodox churches split with Rome. It is also why Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses. Maybe I'm reading more into what you said, but most people equate Christianity with organized religion which it is more certainly not.

To belittle the bible, but hold up mystical writings originating from equally questionable sources as "enlightened" is complete bullshit. Most people pursuing an ascetic lifestyle genuine enlightenment respect all mystical writings although they may follow one more closely than others whether they be Muslim, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Pagan, Druid, etc.

Throughout history, people have killed other people in the name of one religion or another. To paint vast swaths of people into that bloodbath is ignorant and out right hateful towards fellow man to be honest.

With regard to Francis Chan, he's a pretty cool dude that shoots straight. He speaks what he believes as the truth and has had some pretty crazy shit happen in his life.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

DrewSTNY said:


> TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit.
> 
> Long version -
> 
> ...



I'm afraid your right Drew. People have been awful to each other since the beginning. The history suggests that Abraham conquered Israel by genocide.

I actually have no issues with Jehovah except for their disdain for holidays and extreme rudeness. Their beliefs are just too foreign to my core ideology. I think I don't trust their or Mormon faith because it was invented too recently.

I'm sure even Christianity seemed cultish in the beginning. I've actually become more a Judaic in my beliefs over time. So I dobtry to keep an open mind.


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## Coywolf (Sep 6, 2017)

I'm hoping that everyone on this thread realizes that there is a difference between religion, and organized religion.

Religion is a belief system, and organized religion is a way to control people by a certain group telling the rest that they are closer to a diety than the general populous.

I'll stand with my original statement. Fuck organized religion.

The "Church" has been the downfall of every belief system.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 6, 2017)

Agreed I don't need any corporation to sell me salvation just cheeseburgers.


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## Coywolf (Sep 6, 2017)

And also, the bible has many great teachings, the problem is that most people believe it is the word of God, and has not been edited over the years by any and every person who thought they knew better than the last. That is the problem I have with people taking that book withough a grain of salt.

As far as belittling anyone. Yes, you are reading way too far into what I wrote


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## Coywolf (Sep 6, 2017)

ALSO. Im usually civil with people. But when you come up to me and tell me that I am going to their imaginary "Hell" for not believing the same thing that they do is an incredible insult. And, in my mind, that makes me think they might be going to their own imaginary shithole.

I have had this multiple times while traveling, and I will ask them why they wouldnt be going to the same place for telling me that. There is never a straight answer.


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## nivoldoog (Sep 7, 2017)

So I am a "Cosmic Christian"

I believe heaven and hell exists like parallel universes.

Now, take two circles, have them over lap in the middle. The place they over lap is earth and the circles are heaven and hell. We get to choose heaven or hell. It is as simple as a step to the left or right which one you are in. Hate... or love. Your choice.


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## DrewSTNY (Sep 7, 2017)

Coy, thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with you about the authority of the Bible, but that's OK. Archeology tells me that the original manuscripts are essentially unchanged over time. Translations of those manuscripts are just that, translations that are prone to error and interpretation. That's why scholars of the Quran and the Bible insist on studying the text in the original languages. I just wish I could read Hebrew and Greek, but I can't so I have to rely on potentially flawed translations; therefore, I have several to compare against each other.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 7, 2017)

DrewSTNY said:


> Coy, thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with you about the authority of the Bible, but that's OK. Archeology tells me that the original manuscripts are essentially unchanged over time. Translations of those manuscripts are just that, translations that are prone to error and interpretation. That's why scholars of the Quran and the Bible insist on studying the text in the original languages. I just wish I could read Hebrew and Greek, but I can't so I have to rely on potentially flawed translations; therefore, I have several to compare against each other.



Aren't most of the original Texts in Aramaic? One reason I don't take an absolute take on the he bible is that Rome has a lot of the original texts locked away.


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## DrewSTNY (Sep 7, 2017)

Depends on which books, I don't really know. Since Aramaic was the lingua franca of Hebrew, you certainly would be right; however, I don't know the history of that relationship.

The oldest manuscripts regardless of original language are kept by the Coptic church in Egypt. With the constant threat of historical revision, they are fearful that most of those will be destroyed if the Copts are pushed out of that country. It would be a great loss to all humanity if those scrolls are destroyed. They have an incredible library of the earliest Christian writings as well as ancient scroll transcriptions of the Torah and the writings of the desert elders. 

Despite it's prominence, I don't really trust the archives of the Vatican although they certainly do have verified copies of import dating from the Council of Nicea. To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 7, 2017)

DrewSTNY said:


> Depends on which books, I don't really know. Since Aramaic was the lingua franca of Hebrew, you certainly would be right; however, I don't know the history of that relationship.
> 
> The oldest manuscripts regardless of original language are kept by the Coptic church in Egypt. With the constant threat of historical revision, they are fearful that most of those will be destroyed if the Copts are pushed out of that country. It would be a great loss to all humanity if those scrolls are destroyed. They have an incredible library of the earliest Christian writings as well as ancient scroll transcriptions of the Torah and the writings of the desert elders.
> 
> Despite it's prominence, I don't really trust the archives of the Vatican although they certainly do have verified copies of import dating from the Council of Nicea. To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.



You are a lot more knowledgeable than me lol.


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## Coywolf (Sep 7, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> You are a lot more knowledgeable than me lol.



Yes, it seems his knowledge base exceeds mine on the subject.


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## VikingAdventurer (Sep 7, 2017)

AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> ...I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.



Psshh, we're all adults here. Ain't nobody got time for any of that Jr high "no homo, but" bullshit. LMAO.



DrewSTNY said:


> TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit...



Agreed!::drinkingbuddy::



AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> ... I actually have no issues with Jehovah except for their disdain for holidays and extreme rudeness... I don't trust their or Mormon faith because it was invented too recently...



SAME!



Coywolf said:


> And also, the bible has many great teachings, the problem is that most people believe it is the word of God, and has not been edited over the years by any and every person who thought they knew better than the last. That is the problem I have with people taking that book without a grain of salt



This is also one of the problems that I have with the "Christian" Bible.



DrewSTNY said:


> ... To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.



I agree with this 100%.

This is a good thread.


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## DrewSTNY (Sep 7, 2017)

VikingAdventurer said:


> Psshh, we're all adults here. Ain't nobody got time for any of that Jr high "no homo, but" bullshit. LMAO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is why I'm so addicted to StP! You can actually have real conversations/discussions/debate without someone getting all pissy about disagreeing with each other. YOU GUYS FUCKING ROCK!!!

::drinkingbuddy::


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 7, 2017)

These Jehovah's are very predatory of poor people. I got solicited again at the bus stop. This time I hit the jackpot. She was a smoking hot milfalicious blond.

I asked her to go back to my place and go toes to Jesus. It was the quickest end to a Jehovah encounter yet.

I've never seen a woman turn a brighter shade of red as she hurried back to her SUV. She looked back though. She was considering it or afraid I'd follow her lmao.

YOU guys have inspired me to do better!


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## Odin (Sep 7, 2017)

Holy HIgh FIve Jesus N Buddah

I'm trying this first opportunity...



AlmostAlwaysLost said:


> These Jehovah's are very predatory of poor people. I got solicited again at the bus stop. This time I hit the jackpot. She was a smoking hot milfalicious blond. *I asked her to go back to my place and go toes to Jesus. It was the quickest end to a Jehovah encounter yet. *I've never seen a woman turn a brighter shade of red as she hurried back to her SUV. She looked back though. She was considering it or afraid I'd follow her lmao.


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## AlwaysLost (Sep 7, 2017)

Odin said:


> Holy HIgh FIve Jesus N Buddah
> 
> I'm trying this first opportunity...


I highly recommend it


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## Odin (Sep 7, 2017)

Jesus was a Hobo... 

Ladies praise your faith show a Bo' some love.


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