# Animal Liberation's Common & Contentious Allies



## WildVirtue (May 18, 2019)

So just writing these wiki pages, having a think about ways to interest leftists in animal liberation campaigns and visa versa. Can let me know what you think or critique me on any challenges I may have overlooked.

I especially loved researching the history of horse drawn travel and working horses. The ideal state for me to get to is have loads more wildlife habitat for more herds of wild horses to flourish, but I think they're similar to dogs in that they can get extremely attached to their owners and also need the exercise. So I lived on a land squat before, where we hoped to train these rescue horses to till a field and I know of horses being used to take out logs with minumum damage to the land. Check out this wicked old high wheel log pulling contraption.


*Animal Liberation’s Common Allies*

Perspectives both groups/movements can gain from each other about our overlap and practical ways we can all offer mutual support in achieving our campaign goals.

Some vegan perspectives might feel foreign to those who haven’t before considered the emotional lives of animals, but under the right circumstance people can come to understand and sympathize e.g. a fellow volunteer at the domestic violence shelter who’s vegan and you come to understand their passion and dedication is only furthered by this philosophy.


*In Short*

*What do we mean by alliance?

Low Impact Lifestyle*

Zero Waste
Joint Activism

Freeganism
Joint Activism

*Human Rights*

Labor movement
Labor movement perspectives
Vegan perspectives
Joint activism

Anti-Racism / Anti-Apartheid
Anti-Racist Perspectives
Vegan perspectives
Joint Activism

Anti-Sexism / Civil rights
Anti-Sexist Perspectives
Vegan Perspectives
Joint Activism
Bad Activism

Disability Rights
Joint Activism

Indigenous land rights / Investment
Joint Activism



*Animal Liberation’s Contentious Allies*

Groups/movements that don’t live up to our ethical standard, but who we may find useful to collaborate with to achieve our campaign goals.

*In Short*

*What do we mean by alliance?*

Do we have to give up any of our principles?
*Animal rights legislation*

Higher welfare reform
Welfare reformist perspectives
Vegan perspectives
Joint activism

Speciesist slaughter/hunting abolition
Joint Activism

*Low Impact Lifestyle*

Locavore
Vegan Perspective

*Wildlife Habitat Expansion*

Shoot hunting & pole fishing
Vegan perspective
Joint Activism

Wild animal farming
Vegan Perspective
Joint Activism

Horse riding, plus horse & dog pulling
Vegan Perspective
Joint Activism

Foxhound drag-hunt racecourse & Bloodhound hunting
Drag-hunt and bloodhound hunters perspective
Vegan Perspective
Joint Activism

Sighthounds, coonhounds, pointers, retrievers, ferreting & falconry to eat
Vegan Perspective
Joint Activism


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 18, 2019)

I’d like to liberate them to my charcoal Weber.

Is it possible to form an organization that is dedicated to convincing/re-educating those animals that are carnivores to cease eating meat?

Once that goal is accomplished,look me up, I’d be willing to be re-educated. Till then, gotta man the grill


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## DeadTreeMississippi (May 18, 2019)

How about environmentalism? There's a ton of evidence that agriculture, especially the beef industry, is wrecking the planet in the name of animal consumption.

My sister is a hardcore vegan activist; I think very highly of her and her ambition. While I don't feel that animal consumption is inherently wrong, I do feel that the industrialized nature of it encourages inhumane practices, and should be overhauled. We're moving in that direction already--it's a great middle-ground that all groups of people can feel compassionate about--but there are still so many dishonest practices with "free-range"/"cage-free" claims. I think pairing up with legal groups to make companies accountable for inhumane treatment, as well as aggressive ad campaigns (not with PETA though, as people will automatically tune it out as "extreme"), are great steps to take. For ads, I'm thinking like, showing regular people from all walks of life (urban, rural, professional, working-class) saying "I'm not vegan but, even I don't agree with the horrible treatment these animals go through". And show vid of conditions and slaughter--not with sad sappy music, but just like "Yo, this is what happens, real talk." And maybe also touch on the amount of pus and crap that's allowed in animal products (people may not always have a heart, but nearly everyone can get grossed out). The pus and crap gets into products because of the poor conditions the animals go through. So the end result--better treatment for agricultural animals--would be the same.

No one is going to convince the whole country to go vegan overnight, or even in one generation. It's something that needs to go slowly, and I think finding common ground and compromising is the best place to start.


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## roguetrader (May 18, 2019)

I've gone from hardcore vegan / vegetarian for decades, then back to occasionally eating meat - for me the major issue is factory farming of animals - eating meat is undoubtedly natural for humans but as @zielum said this industry is having a major effect on the planet - and the quality of meat it produces is frequently terrible - riddled with growth hormones, antibiotics etc etc - so most of the time I just don't bother, a varied vegan diet just feels so much better for the body !

regarding the original post - I would describe myself as an anarcho punk and to me animal rights is undoubtedly allied with many leftist causes - the fight against capitalism requires a complete mental 'makeover' for most people - we're raised in a viciously racist / sexist / homophobic society and casting off bullshit baggage that's been programmed into us is very liberating - for many adopting a vegan diet / lifestyle is part of this process...

finally are you aware there's a thriving Horsedrawn Traveller scene in the UK ? - I a was sat on a roadside verge surrounded by horses and wagons only last week, cooking on the open fire and drinking port ! there's a great local Horsedrawn gathering / festival going on down here in Devon next week - it's called Hedge-U-Cation - if you're interested have a look online - there's also a piece about it on this site that I posted a couple of years ago....


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## WildVirtue (May 19, 2019)

zielum said:


> How about environmentalism? There's a ton of evidence that agriculture, especially the beef industry, is wrecking the planet in the name of animal consumption.



For sure, I will have to get round to writing this. Beyond joint perspective of climate change is bad, there are just so many environmental battles to try to reduce down into a few paragraphs, like fossil feul planning applications, land use and species extinction, etc.



zielum said:


> I think pairing up with legal groups to make companies accountable for inhumane treatment, as well as aggressive ad campaigns (not with PETA though, as people will automatically tune it out as "extreme"), are great steps to take.



Definitly there are a few legal groups like this and there need to be more. There are also some conferences where they debate the best termenology for new laws, like whether to emphasize animals right to be able to express their evolved capabilities or even some talking of indigenous territory right to habitat.

I'm a bit irrationally hateful of being advertised to aha, but billboard subvertising groups can work a charm, like you turn some glossy marketing gimmick, parody it with comedy situational to where you are and people will enjoy feeling like they're involved in a piece of something genuine and grassroots.



roguetrader said:


> I've gone from hardcore vegan / vegetarian for decades, then back to occasionally eating meat - for me the major issue is factory farming of animals - eating meat is undoubtedly natural for humans but as @zielum said this industry is having a major effect on the planet - and the quality of meat it produces is frequently terrible - riddled with growth hormones, antibiotics etc etc - so most of the time I just don't bother, a varied vegan diet just feels so much better for the body !



Yep totally, there are of course rare cases of farms where there are so few animals over such a large and varied habitat, that they're doing very little damage compared to some monoculture crops and soil erosion. If people seek those meats out I think it's great ecologically, same with rare fish at markets because of the knock on ecological effect of almost wiping out some of the big main fish populations.



roguetrader said:


> regarding the original post - I would describe myself as an anarcho punk and to me animal rights is undoubtedly allied with many leftist causes - the fight against capitalism requires a complete mental 'makeover' for most people - we're raised in a viciously racist / sexist / homophobic society and casting off bullshit baggage that's been programmed into us is very liberating - for many adopting a vegan diet / lifestyle is part of this process...



Toats 



roguetrader said:


> finally are you aware there's a thriving Horsedrawn Traveller scene in the UK ? - I a was sat on a roadside verge surrounded by horses and wagons only last week, cooking on the open fire and drinking port ! there's a great local Horsedrawn gathering / festival going on down here in Devon next week - it's called Hedge-U-Cation - if you're interested have a look online - there's also a piece about it on this site that I posted a couple of years ago....



I had seen a big caravan of wagons once and know a few stories from friends. It would be lovely to go to one at some point, I'll hit you up and write on here when it's in the cards. Maybe one day I'll go cross-country from land's end to john o groats in a horse-drawn cart, raise money for a rewilding charity and document my journey at the same time. So raising awarness to try to get councils to guarantee more traveler pitches like they used to and get more people interested in the lifestyle. Skijoring with 2 big rescue dogs will by my first more achievable goal though aha.


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## roguetrader (May 19, 2019)

The Horsedrawn Camp are on Facebook and have two annual events where you can see them parked up - The Beltane Bash was the weekend before last near Evesham, End Of The World party is on the August Bank Holiday, similar area....


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 19, 2019)

“No one is going to convince the whole country to go vegan overnight” . . . 

Or, actually, not ever. Do you condescendingly believe you’ll simply educate us carnivores? If you ever do succeed in educating all the carnivorous animals, then, as I said, give us human carnivores a text or phone call, we might be open to it then.

“How about environmentalism?”

How about it? Have you removed every bit of plastic, or other forms of harmful substances from your own life first, before worrying about the splinter in your brothers’ eye? I thought not.

Cranky today, I am


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## roguetrader (May 19, 2019)

@ibuzzard the non-human animals aren't destroying the planet at an alarming rate though are they ? no one's doubting your 'right' to eat meat but we've come so far from hunter gatherers that it's all going to shit - do you remotely care ? I have a child - I'd like to think she has a future...

the issue is factory farming / monoculture not the personal consumption of meat


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 19, 2019)

roguetrader said:


> @ibuzzard the non-human animals aren't destroying the planet at an alarming rate though are they ? no one's doubting your 'right' to eat meat but we've come so far from hunter gatherers that it's all going to shit - do you remotely care ? I have a child - I'd like to think she has a future...
> 
> the issue is factory farming / monoculture not the personal consumption of meat



What’s that your traveling in, my friend? A Caravan? What is its’ carbon footprint? Will that footprint fill a Dr. Martens boot to overflowing?


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## roguetrader (May 19, 2019)

I'm in no way the perfect example of an eco warrior but I'd like to think I'm trying - that particular trailer houses 3 people, electricity is solar, heating is by wood burner, we consume a fraction of the (propane) gas and water that a house dweller would - most of our stuff is old and second hand - we're pretty fucking green BUT you are correct we use plenty of diesel in our vehicles to get about - haven't quite worked out a way round that one....


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 19, 2019)

roguetrader said:


> I'm in no way the perfect example of an eco warrior but I'd like to think I'm trying - that particular trailer houses 3 people, electricity is solar, heating is by wood burner, we consume a fraction of the (propane) gas and water that a house dweller would - most of our stuff is old and second hand - we're pretty fucking green BUT you are correct we use plenty of diesel in our vehicles to get about - haven't quite worked out a way round that one....



Drink water, or any drinks, from plastic bottles? Wear clothing made from other than natural fibers sustainably grown and manufactured /distributed? Got any electronics? Terrible impact, both in their extractive material use, distribution, pollution of the world. There is simply no reason for anyone to worry about others till they’ve gotten their own little world purged. 

“ I be Greener than Thou”, is it?

My point is this : those seemingly most in earnest about this and other similar topics, are worried about getting their brothers houses in order, before cleaning up their own. Do what you can, where you are, for you and yours. Let me and mine figure out for ourselves what we will do. Otherwise, it comes off sounding arrogant . . .egotistical . . .condescending. We are all guilty of that.


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## WildVirtue (May 19, 2019)

ibuzzard what you quoted was zielum suggesting to me to add a section discussing joint activism vegans and environmentalists can do together. There's a take back the land camp going on now in the UK to raise the issue of flooding due to over crowded sheep farming and moorland burning for grouse shooting, which means instead of water going into the soil, it's destroying towns. And they're hoping to pressure councils into putting more land into community trusts for tenant farmers which helps workers. Camp food is vegan because it's the most environmentally and ethically friendly and they get to skill-share some direct action strategy while annoying some aristocrats.

I don't think lions killing, raping and cannibalizing each other is a good justification to do it ourselves, but I sympathize with your frustration with any bad advocacy you've experienced that has come off as attempting to overhaul the philosophy that has gotten you through life so far. I'm certainly not going to try and compare the core of each of our philosophies over text.

I just think going vegan is one of the biggest lifestyle differences you can make for the environment and other animals, with only a small leaning curve in cooking to change your habits, so it is worth discussing with people like any of the other issues you raised, under the right circumstances.

(Edit: sorry got the names mixed up the first time)


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## Glass Roads (May 19, 2019)

The argument of "You're not perfect, therefor you can't speak." isn't very productive. Waiting for perfect people to come along and suggest being less destructive as a human race isn't gonna get us anywhere.


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 20, 2019)

Glass Roads said:


> The argument of "You're not perfect, therefor you can't speak." isn't very productive. Waiting for perfect people to come along and suggest being less destructive as a human race isn't gonna get us anywhere.



Perhaps you’re correct. You will never force others to become vegans. Forcing yourselves to eliminate as many destructive habits as you can, is your only possible option. Let us know how you fare at that.


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## Dameon (May 20, 2019)

You're never going to convince meat eaters to make a sudden drastic diet change by citing environmental effects, especially since going vegan generally involves a large hike in the grocery bill. What _is_ effective is convincing people to eat *less *meat and to avoid factory-farmed meat, and providing alternatives. I've seen a large amount of people say they would happily eat the impossible burger rather than real meat. You don't have to tell people they have to go full-on vegan to help the environment, there's a lot of much smaller dietary changes people can make that add up on a larger level, and maybe eventually these smaller dietary changes will lead them to become a vegan.


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## WildVirtue (May 20, 2019)

Dameon said:


> You're never going to convince meat eaters to make a sudden drastic diet change by citing environmental effects,



A lot of people do cite the environment as their reason for going vegan though, myself included. My primary motivating reason isn't simply reduce the harm to animals and damage they cause to the environment, but by reducing our land use, increase the amount of wild animal life and flourishing in wildlife habitat. I was also motivated by a vibrant environmental movement ranging from tree sitters in California all the way to punk communes and nomadic tribes people in Indonesia.



Dameon said:


> You don't have to tell people they have to go full-on vegan to help the environment, there's a lot of much smaller dietary changes people can make that add up on a larger level



Of course veganism isn't the be all and end all, so I argree buying locally/seasonal etc. I'm not sure larger level, maybe when measured against a silly raw fruit diet or something. But we'd also have to look at a whole bunch of psychology and social science research to really know whether reducitarian advocacy has a greater effect than vegan advocacy does. Sometimes people need to set themselves hard limits in order not to slip back.

Also if your advocacy isn't aimed at reaching at least some people who are motivated to give up animal products entirely, then it's unlikely you'll also find the next new activists who are motivated enough to help out in their community also.

My favorite form of advocacy is food not bombs stalls in city centers anyways, free delicious vegan/freegan food and just getting to know people.


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## Glass Roads (May 21, 2019)

ibuzzard said:


> Perhaps you’re correct. You will never force others to become vegans. Forcing yourselves to eliminate as many destructive habits as you can, is your only possible option. Let us know how you fare at that.


No one in this entire thread is suggesting forcing it upon anyone.


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## Deleted member 23824 (May 21, 2019)

Glass Roads said:


> No one in this entire thread is suggesting forcing it upon anyone.



Most of us heathen carnivores have been on the receiving end, far too many times, of vegans/vegetarians ,high atop their pedestals, wagging their collective fingers in us carnivores faces, all the while patting themselves on the back. Knock it off, please. We like meat and may bite your finger off.


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## Glass Roads (May 22, 2019)

A link for pamphlets/leaflets on left list would be helpful.

Do you care if a Food Not Bombs prints off parts of your wiki? We could use some new lit. I also feel like the vegan group in town could use this. I feel like this would be great in a pamphlet form.

Did you happen to see the Animals thirsting for Freedom zine? They have a link to it on Sprouts distro. Fascinating read.
https://www.sproutdistro.com/2018/12/15/anarchist-zines-1118/
I like the wiki. I especially like that you included 'bad activism' with anti sexism/civil rights.


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## WildVirtue (May 22, 2019)

Glass Roads said:


> A link for pamphlets/leaflets on left list would be helpful.



Do you mean a list of links for further reading at the end of each wiki article?

Went searching and made a list for me website, I'm sure I've missed a bunch, so be cool to know ones you find useful to use.



Glass Roads said:


> Do you care if a Food Not Bombs prints off parts of your wiki? We could use some new lit. I also feel like the vegan group in town could use this. I feel like this would be great in a pamphlet form.



That would be fab! I'll link the first draft here when it's ready. I've made pamphlets to show other activists at gatherings to talk digital activism potential, but could really use someone to collaborate with, like with the skills to add in more graphic design layers to make it more visually appealing and tailoring it for outreach:

Philosophical Vegan Wiki - Short & Long Pamphlets
Introduction to Vegan YouTube - WebPage & Pamphlet
Vegan Video Resource Library - WebPage &
Pamphlet
Vegan YouTubers Directory - WebPage &
Pamphlet



Glass Roads said:


> Did you happen to see the Animals thirsting for Freedom zine? They have a link to it on Sprouts distro. Fascinating read.



Looks good, I do always really value these vegan anarchist texts for being clear in their philosophy and getting away from the solely consumer focused wing of the movement. As for the chapter on whether to sterilize pets, it's funny to me because it's like I've come first circle, as what started me writing the 'contentious allies' page was responding to a vegan against pet ownership article.



Glass Roads said:


> I like the wiki. I especially like that you included 'bad activism' with anti sexism/civil rights.



Thanks, it's sad to write about, because most vegans are left wing, but how we keep it that way necessitates being hyper aware of bad actors trying to use veganism for nefarious reasons, like the very, very few, but still worth exposing vegan racists.


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