# Anyone know about living on boats?



## anyways (Feb 11, 2011)

Someday when I'm done ridin` trains I want to learn how to build my own boat... Figured that'd be a good rent free, mobile way of life.... 

I am aware however that places charge shit tons of money to dock at ports... and was wondering if there's like some underground community of people who live on the water and have cheaper ports or somethin...

I dunno. Any word?


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## tree hopper (Feb 11, 2011)

i have a friend who has a small sailboat in san diego who he went in on the docking cost or whatever with another guy so between the both of them its like 50-100 each a month i think i forget, but its pretty fucken sweet from what hes told me and ive stayed on it a few times its like enuff room for one or two ppl, so for one person idk totally made me consider wanting to look into something like that. but if u want i can find out more details like about the charges and docking and other fees or other bullshit you might have to worry about. like anything specifically you'd wanna know or basically what has already been asked/covered? feel free to pm me too if ya want.


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## crow (Feb 11, 2011)

I squated on an old run-down boat. the cops will areest you if they catch you taking a piss or shitting in the water. And we got kicked out of a lot of spots. Eventually a storm came and washed our boat away. But luckily we were on land gathering supplies.


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## anyways (Feb 12, 2011)

tree hopper said:


> but if u want i can find out more details like about the charges and docking and other fees or other bullshit you might have to worry about. like anything specifically you'd wanna know or basically what has already been asked/covered? .



That'd be awesome, man....Any information is awesome cause I'm not quite sure where to start...


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## tree hopper (Feb 12, 2011)

ok not problem. give me like a day or two to get a hold of my friend cos' he's slow at responding phone calls then i'll let ya know what he tells me and i'll just post on this thread as soon as i can k


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## anyways (Feb 13, 2011)

tree hopper said:


> ok not problem. give me like a day or two to get a hold of my friend cos' he's slow at responding phone calls then i'll let ya know what he tells me and i'll just post on this thread as soon as i can k



Right on, thank you


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## streetlight (Feb 13, 2011)

I'd love to do something like that one day. Seems like it could be a really interesting way to live for awhile.

This made me think of "Hold fast" a Docu. about some people fixin up an old sailboat and adventuring out. There is a thread on it somewhere but since it kind relates to this...
Hold Fast, a documentary about anarchy and sailing - Boing Boing


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## tree hopper (Feb 14, 2011)

heya my friend texted me, buts some didnt come thru but so far this is what i've got, hes gunna try an email me info. so its more detailed n' stuff...

boat advice: look up marinas online in whatever area you are lookin' at. callin' em' is the best way to find out info specifically cuz each place can be different/have different regulations,fees,etc..
keep in mind: -cost more to live aboard; charge by foot of the boat
- if on a buoy up to $600/year- if not docked
- ask about live aboard costs cuz they differ.
-easy to find cheap or even free fixer uppers if thats the way you wanna go and not buy- he found his on craigslist
- if going in with someone half and half make sure they are legit, u trust em' all the normal shit u should be cautious of cos' if it works out its alot cheaper (tho' boat livin' costs arent a whole lot to begin with) or if you find someone who wants to go in but not necessarily live on it
......kinda cut out after this and only got partial texts so yea sorry but i'll wait for his email then post it after i get it. he had some info. about ways it could be almost completely free.


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## tree hopper (Feb 14, 2011)

hold fast is sick ive seen it a few times. really like it.


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## tree hopper (Feb 15, 2011)

pm'd ya let me know if ya get it


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## EastCoast315 (Feb 17, 2011)

Tree Hopper, where is your friend from? I'm assuming rates differ from place to place.


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## tree hopper (Feb 18, 2011)

san diego..... mission bay right now more specifically. yeah all the marinas have different rates and live aboard rates are all different they usually charge by each foot of the boat.


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## makan kotoran (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know If you can in the states..
But in Australia we can just drop anchor and tie up in rivers or just at random other spots offshore.
and don't have to pay anything, and if you have a dingy/rowboat you don't really need to go to marinas anyway.


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## Dmac (Mar 25, 2011)

i recently saw a show and they mentioned a homeless place on the west coast of florida. it was called waterworld by the locals cuz the homeless there gathered old derilect boats from the marinas and squated on them. the show mentioned that there were lots of old fiberglass boats that were just left by the owners when the cost of maintaining them was too much for what the boat was worth. some of the boats were of good size, houseboats and cabin crewsers. it made me think about doing it too.


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## freakstorm (Mar 26, 2011)

i know a lot of really big marinas have a few abandoned boats that they are just as happy to give away, providing you move them. My friend got an old 1930's beautiful boat with a brand new engine for free. The previous owners just didn't have the time to finish fixing up the boat. He was able to drive (?) it out of the marina that day and took it across SF bay and worked on it. Up the Petaluma river there are areas where folks just park their boats and live feral. I'd love to be a sail punk one day. I saw a group of kids on an old schooner in Bodega one time....ahhh, just dreamy.


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## Dmac (Mar 26, 2011)

i think that matt posted a video on here once called "the anarchist navy" is was kind of interesting


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## left52side (May 9, 2011)

> I don't know If you can in the states..
> But in Australia we can just drop anchor and tie up in rivers or just at random other spots offshore.
> and don't have to pay anything, and if you have a dingy/rowboat you don't really need to go to marinas anyway.


You can fo this in the states very easily.
I am currently tring to save money for a boat to live on right herein my home town.
I can moore up in any numerous bays located around here and stay indefinatly with no penalties.
I have done quite a bit of research on the matter and as it stands now as long as your vessel is up to "code" then there isnt a problem..
Kind of like camping in national forests in some areas though,where they require you to move several miles from timee to time.
Although I think the time frame is in monthes not weeks.


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## Diagaro (May 9, 2011)

"Living off the chain" is taking fast all over with the decline of jobs and the rise of prices of everything and thus it is getting more and more strictly controlled.
Marinas across the country are clamping down on their 10% rule/law (usually its state, county or city law to have no more than 10% of vessels at moorage being occupied) and usually 10 years or older and under 25 feet are not acceptable in marinas or livaboard.
If you can talk them into letting you rent a slip and are caught living aboard you face fines, impoundments and even possibly arrest - more so you can be blacklisted from entire regions for such unruly practices. For example I am not allowed to posses a boat in the Oakland estuary the fucking artsy hipster trustafarians will call the law on me and fuck my shit up if I try to start up a homebase of any kind. thease people do not forget people easily, 'specially if you stand out as potentially dangerous to the way of life.
IF you can manage its far better than living in a car, squatting or housing. There is less laws on the waters while titleing, registering and insuring is almost alwase compulsory it can be overlooked as long as you appear presentable (I.e., not flying a jolly roger, pissing off the side of your boat, drunken screaming at all hours - etc.,) LOW PROFILE!!!
ALSO because of the financial state of the world more and more boats are being scuddled and abandoned. Johnny proper and Jane Doe rather than paying 1000's every year for mooring and insurance on top of property taxes and such on there two house and 5 cars will quietly make that 33 foot sloop disappear by taking it out one Sunday afternoon and holing the hull with an axe or improvised charges, maybe a shotgun to the interior hull and dinghy it back to shore or they might pump it full of water and claim it sunk of accidental causes and reap 100's of 1000's of dollars in insurance payoffs, this is why you will not hear of free or near free boats - its all real hush hush I have already outlined all this in my age old and super controversial thread Modern day piracy and crew poll.
As for underground pirate ports, well you have to sail to them stumbling uppon them by mistake or you have to know someone who knows something I know this guy that has connections in the Caribbean and I know some people up in Alaska and they would not make a show of there lifestyle on this site or any other for fear of what we would call "oogles" blowing up spots and making shitstorms materialize. these are for the most part people with money who choose to shit overboard rather than moor and flush their tanks to save a buck they are elitist fucktards and will rather than help you call the harbor patrol on you - imagine if every other rail ryder was to do that? 
Plus if you have any semblance of realistic intet on being a sailor see this thread if you have not already, Me and cranberrydavid have properly outlined the reality of this endevour - http://squattheplanet.com/diy-die/squatting-alternative-housing/14047-sailboats.html#post104739
as for learning lingo and such see sailing anarchy.com they are about the closest to boat StP as I know of in existence. Plus if you want some water experience go to any harbor and talk to people ask them stupidly as it might sound to you and them if you can go sailing with them, more than likely if they don't wanna take you they can point you in the right direction, just don't tell them that you want to get a boat of your own that makes you sort of an enemy!


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## hamikman (May 15, 2011)

Anyone know about living on boats? -- Yes. I live on a 20' sailboat in British Columbia. Its very common here. I can't give you advice on laws and ports etc because they will be different where you are. However I can give you some basic practical advice. Its true there are free or near to free boats available. People get divorced, lose jobs, lose interest, whatever and the first thing to go is the toys. Some people just want them out of thier lives because theyre more work than they thought (take a lesson here). Look on craigslist and places like that. If your going to buy a boat the best advice I can give you is don't buy one too big or too complicated. TRUST ME ON THIS but I guess its a different if someone just gives you a boat. The smaller - the better (within reason). Kinda like a pack-don't you feel sorry for the bozo with the 60lb pack? If you a get a big boat that draws lots of water you limit yourself to where you can gunkhole (a term meaning getting into shallow out of the way little bays and anchoring). Big boats cost more money down the road EXPONENTIALLY. Little boats are easy to look after and require less money. My 20' boat is almost always the smallest liveaboard wherever I go but it is set up sweet-woodstove,12v and kerosene lights,portapotty(no thru hull for pumpout toilet). Nice and simple and legal too. If you're going to live on it ie its your home don't get so small you cant standup. You'll ikely have to get about 25' to stand up-mine is unusually spacious for 20'. Its a pacific seacraft flicka if you want to google that and see what it looks like. Boats that go real cheap are the high production models like catalina 27s etc. Go to some marinas and look for boats for sale. If they'll allow you walk the docks and note ones with signs. The more abandoned and unmaintained they look the better your chances of getting real cheap. Virtually every marina I've been in (many) has had examples of this. Also note the ones without signs that are rough and maybe the marina will give contact info. If you're going down to the marinas try not to look too punk etc. They likely won't let you on the docks. People that live aboard in marinas are paranoid about theft and for a good reason too. There's almost always a for sale list on the marinas bullitin board but they'll likely be asking more than you're prepared to pay. About building your own boat-a grand and noble idea and it happens quite frequently but by people that really know what they're doing and what they want. Life is short. I suggest if you really want to do this find a cheap boat and enjoy. If you get real serious about it you'll soon discover that your first boat isn't exactly what you want and you'll have a load of experience to pick out your next boat. Try not to extend yourself on the first one as its likely going to be a trial. One other thing regarding marinas-don't waste your time looking at yacht clubs and talking to those assholes-and after you get your boat try to stay away from those fucks because THEY ARE FUCKS. Oh and another thing-I know it doesn't have the cache etc but fibreglass is way easier to maintain than wood. Ya its plastic but its quite forgiving of neglect compared to wood. You want to be living not maintaining I assume. Typically people with small boats enjoy them more and more often than people with big boats. I've owned 3 major boats in my life starting with 37' to 24' and now 20'- no regrets on the 20 footer.


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## Diagaro (May 15, 2011)

Excellent hamikman.


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## cranberrydavid (May 16, 2011)

Double post


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## cranberrydavid (May 16, 2011)

hamikman said:


> My 20' boat is almost always the smallest liveaboard wherever I go but it is set up sweet-woodstove,12v and kerosene lights,portapotty(no thru hull for pumpout toilet). Nice and simple and legal too.



Wecome, hamikman! That does sound sweet. What kind of woodstove are you using?

For people who are learning, wood is the driest heat source you can have on a boat. This is important because living aboard=wet and moldy unless you fight it. Nothing ever dries on its own on a boat and the humidity on the water is usually 100% so even if your bilges are bone dry, all the moisture from your cooking, breathing and sweating will soon soak everything in the cabin. Mold and rot follows. 

Heat sources in order from driest to wettest:

Woodstove--it's amazing how much moisture it can suck out of the air. You ought to learn something about basic firefighting and CO2 poisoning, but you should do that anyway. If you can avoid driftwood, it's better. The salt will corrode your stove and pipe over time.

Diesel stove--pretty good, but they're expensive and take a lot of tinkering.

Electric--neutral as far as drying. Only works at a marina with good shorepower, which usually means it's hot for electolysis (eating your zincs and thruhull fittings).

Propane--Bad. Makes water vapor when it burns, so it will actually rain inside a small cabin. Also, propane is heavier than air, so it sinks and collects in the bilges, where it can go BOOM at inconvenient times. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is just as wet, but at least it won't blow you up. It's hard to find though. 

Added: Always have a fire extinguiser in a handy place near the exit. [Also note: NOTHING pisses off a marina against liveaboards like having safety equipment disappear!]


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## Earth (May 16, 2011)

One of my friends has been living on a non-powered (her term) motor boat for quite some time. Might be an ex-fishing boat. Think it's something like 34 feet long. Keeps it at a small marina, where she gets all her power etc.. from (which means she has bills no different than the rest of us). While it sounds very appealing, it also is not a free ride as she is always working on the thing, and when the storms roll in, they really roll in. She got snowed in big time this past winter. But it sounds like she still prefers to live on the water, and it's something I'm considering doing myself within the next ten years or so - as my inspiration comes from an old man who lives on an older tri-hull sail boat where I launch out of (when doing my off-shore kayaking trips).


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## hamikman (May 16, 2011)

It's homemade (not by me tho). It's 8" square pipe/12" long capped at each end, simple mitred door, chimney is that ss flexible 3" pipe used for exhaust for heavy equp. Had a guy make it for me. Removed bulkhead diesel heater (which I loved) and installed wood heater to test it. Worked awesome. Dog loved it. Originally got it because fuel prices going up and wanted a backup but after I tested it liked it so much it took 3 years to put diesel back in(just recently). I know guys that have made them out of olive oil cans, propane tanks(work very well) and whatever. If you know someone with gear and arrange atrade or whatever you can get the materials at a scrap yard for almost nothing and make it to your own specs. Square pipe works very well. Mine is 1/4" Wall but would do 1/8" next time to save weight. Put diesel back in so boat would be warm when I got back after being away all day. I've figured a way of having both just have to do it.
Hey- I can't log on with my laptop to stp so using another computer. Wonder what's up. Me paranoids wondering if there's a bug associated with the site the admins don't know about or something. Anyone else have this trouble?


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## hamikman (May 16, 2011)

Heres a quote from Sterling Hayden. I think it sums up elegantly a philosophy we here can appreciate. 

- "To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... "cruising" it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about. 
"I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone. 
What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. 

The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed. 

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life? "


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## hamikman (May 16, 2011)

Heres a quote from Sterling Hayden. I think it sums up elegantly a philosophy we here can appreciate. 

- "To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... "cruising" it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about. 
"I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of "security." And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone. 
What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. 

The years thunder by, The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed. 

Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life? "


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## Linda/Ziggy (May 16, 2011)

I lived on a canal boat in England, was part of a low impact/low tech permaculture community.
It was great.
Unfortunately over there as with over here,
you need to stay on the move if you are not insured, registered etc,
I don;t know what salvage rights are in the USA concerning abandoned boats.
In the UK the boat has to be abandoned for a set number of years and the hull line
has to be under a specific level in the water (sinking) to be able to claim the boat.

The was an article in the San Francisco Times yesterday about abandoned boats 
on the Petaluma River.


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## hamikman (May 16, 2011)

Re abandoned boats- Ya I've heard of that going on in the US. Supposed to be quite common in Florida. Its a good opportunity to score a free boat. If true find out what the salvage laws are and go get em you guys.


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## godsahn (Sep 5, 2011)

As someone who is considering life on a boat, this thread is filled with awesome material. Thanks!


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## godsahn (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm on a mutha-fucking boat!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU


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## 40 Hands (Sep 12, 2011)

Had a friend that squatted a boat before he moved into a punk house i lived at. Him an some idiot slept on this beat up little boat for a few weeks with no problems. But they werent making a scene, and only used it to sleep. Always left in the morning and showed up after sun set.


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## Dmac (Sep 14, 2011)

i just watched an old documentery from the late 70's or 80's. these guys got an old barge (they were in louisiana) and built a cabin on it. they would tow it to an area in the swamp and set up gardens and hunt/fish, till they got tired and then would move to a diferent area. it was very cool. i watch a show on discovery called "swamp people" and there are still people who live on home made house boats and more or less live off the land. they make money by selling crayfish and the like.


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## dharma bum (Sep 19, 2011)

i'm building one of these... for sure...


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## flashinglights (Sep 22, 2011)

I just found out by reading a newspaper article about derelict barges, that a vessel with no cargo or means of propulsion does not have to be registered, according to maritime law. I bet those guys in the swamp were taking full advantage of that.


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## Dmac (Sep 22, 2011)

did not know that about barges, but you sure could put a lot on one. you know, house, raised bed gardens and the like.


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## Cardboard (Dec 14, 2011)

http://www.blueanarchy.org/ -- has a lot of info about anchoring places on the west coast, probably a good group to be in touch with.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php -- a bit more serious of a sailors page, but still lots of good info. I found it building when building a giant catamaran, they have plans for building the trimaran from waterworld!


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## JannethintheWind (Dec 14, 2011)

COME TO MARYLAND! the chesapeake bay watershed is the most extensive in the world...a true beauty and a great place to live...and droppin out in the river can be done


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## soapybum (Dec 14, 2011)

Cant paste the link cuz i'm on my shitty phone but isnt there a thread on here talking about a few different places to get vacant/abandonded boats and wanting to make an anarchist flotilla? The thread is only a month or so old at tops.


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## Vonuist (Dec 15, 2011)

I don't know how I missed this one.
I'm currently living in the Scottish Highlands, counting trees for the Forestry Commision and saving the money to buy a narrowboat.
The recession has knocked the arse out of the narrowboat market, prices are very, very low right now as lots of hobby owners are getting sick of the mooring fees and selling up, this is especially true of "project boats" that need work done.
I'm hoping to pick up something in the 40 foot range for under £10, 000 and then refit it as a liveaboard with solar, a collapsable turbine and a completely new interior.
I've been getting a lot of inspiration from videos of the Tiny House movement on youtube and elsewhere and I've come up with some great ideas for maximising the space inside, although, of course, until I get the boat and start work I can never be sure if it work.
My plan is to get a Cruising license and just stay in temporary moorings, moving on every couple of weeks.
I know that my plans involve a very specific kind of boat but I'm sure that the mechanics of outfitting a liveaboard are much the same whether you are on the canal or the high seas and I'd welcome the chance to discuss some new ideas.


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