# Why being a 'drunk punk' and an 'anarchist' don't actually go together...



## anyways

Okay, I'm prepared to get totally flamed for this. Because everyone loves booze so fucking much.:flush:

So I know that it's really fun to get wasted. I guess it also fuels some kind of revolutionary anti-society image to be chugging a 40 in some alley somewhere (or in a yd).... I also am entirely too aware that alcohol is addictive and once you're hooked and dt every morning you're pretty much boozes bitch till you reaaaaaaally put effort into not drinking anymore. 

But here's a question for you guys... What makes the alcohol and tobacco companies better than any of the other corporations everyone bitches about? Do people not see the irony in saying that they hate the state ... and then giving money to it by getting drunk everyday?? Why are all corporations evil except the ones that sell what YOU want?? 

By the way...other than the fact that you can't live too long without a functioning liver... alcohol is the only thing (other than some pharmies I think) that will KILL you while you're withdrawing from it - if you've been a hardcore alcoholic for years-

This to me is all too convenient for the government. I for one (and I KNOW most of you have too) have lost friends and road dogs who died thanks to booze. Do you not think this is exactly what they want?!?!? 
"Oh anarchists? Train riders? They're no REAL threat to capitalism or society or anything really cause they fucking kill themselves off anyway! If it's not with booze it's dope! We're safe. Oh and besides...it just makes it easier for us to lock them up PLUS it makes more average Americans hate them too! PSH"

The only positive connection between booze and anarchy is that booze gets people in a mood to fuck shit up. (YES, I known that real anarchy goes MUCH deeper than that, I'm just making a point)

Discuss.


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## SparrowW

Weren't you the same who was talking about how much you hate booze and drugs the other day in chat? I don't remember. Anyways, if yo were I think you may be a bit biased, of course those here you drink a lot will be too.

Yes, buying alcohol supports big companies, of course so does being in the internet, using Google, having electricity, having running water, buying food. You gotta draw a line somewhere, some of us draw the line at booze and cigarettes because we use it to cope or just relax. Some people prefer pot, some prefer heroine. (Though I think alcohol is way more dangerous than either of those personally.)

I think perhaps you're also being somewhat alarmist with the whole "It's what they want!" and "It makes it easier to lock anarchists up!" "Makes people dislike anarchists more!" Also, many things can kill you during the withdrawal period, some a lot easier and quicker than alcohol. Why do you think there are prescriptions to help people slowly get off drugs?

It's just a personal thing. I'm personally vegetarian and I think eating meat hurts your body and supports cruel companies, but I don't make a big fuss to those that eat meat. I think heroine is a shitty drug, but if you do heroine, cool, I'm just not gonna take part and would rather not babysit you if things go bad. I like to drink, I like my cigarettes, I like my pot and I like that I have something to turn to when I feel rough.


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## anyways

"Weren't you the same who was talking about how much you hate booze and drugs the other day in chat? I don't remember. "
---- --------Possibly, but the truth of the matter is I love booze and drugs, I just hate the power they have over people, and the fact that the proceeds go to the very same government that denies me basic human rights every day.


"Yes, buying alcohol supports big companies, of course so does being in the internet, using Google, having electricity, having running water, buying food. "
-----------------------Absolutely...which is why I live outside, am rarely on the computer (this past week has been an exception), and eat out of dumpsters more often than buying an actual meal (and why I want to learn better hunting/gathering skills)

"I think perhaps you're also being somewhat alarmist "
------------------------ GOOD. Everyone is too fucking complacent these days.


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## macks

Cheap entertainment, fun with friends. Helps to go to sleep in the bushes.

I think that your 'government wants anarchists to get drunk so that they won't topple our regime' argument is giving anarchists too much credit. If it was big enough of a deal for the feds to make a plan to deal with 'anarchists' I really doubt that trying to get them drunk would have much to do with it.

I do agree that it is really funny to see some douchebag ranting about how corporations are evil and how real anarchists don't support corporations while they are drinking their 24oz Budweiser(TM) and smoking Camel Menthols(TM). 

"Oh anarchists? They're no REAL threat to capitalism because they are too busy riding freight trains and being hoboXcore, checking their StP for friend requests and sewing the newest patch onto their vests and trading dreadlocks with friends."

That last bit was just meant to poke fun, not talk shit.


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## anyways

"Cheap entertainment, fun with friends. Helps to go to sleep in the bushes."
----word, word, and word. 

"I think that your 'government wants anarchists to get drunk so that they won't topple our regime' argument is giving anarchists too much credit. If it was big enough of a deal for the feds to make a plan to deal with 'anarchists' I really doubt that trying to get them drunk would have much to do with it."
------ Right but if the government does shit like flood LA with crack as population control, who's to say what their tactics are going to be REALLY.


"Oh anarchists? They're no REAL threat to capitalism because they are too busy riding freight trains and being hoboXcore, checking their StP for friend requests and sewing the newest patch onto their vests and trading dreadlocks with friends."
-----(smirk and a giggle)


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## SparrowW

Ah, no, you weren't the one. You're actually being cool about your point. The guy that was there was a totally dick. Anyways, rereading I kind of see your point now, where before I thought you were like "It's all evil evil evil! and it makes you evil!"
Good point though and I think you may have a decent argument in there with some tweaking and better flow of thought. I kind of agree too that it all gets out of head easy and sometimes we forget that it's not all 'get drunk and fuck the system', it's taking responsibility too.


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## 614 crust

Home brew or steal it when possible fuck the big corporations. I do pay for it to though although I'd prefer not to. but I also don't consider my self an anarchist or a punk so whatever. Fuck nevermind I'm drunk.


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## macks

Fuck yeah 614crust, now to start putting carboys under all of my favorite bridges so when I roll through towns I have some ready to drink! 

How about a hobo homebrew network? Bring some ingredients to the jungle, drink the batch and start a new one for the next tramp? Ah, if only a perfect hobo world without the oogles who would fuck that up.


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## 614 crust

Sounds good. So if we get rid of all the oogles its possible right? Time to get to work.


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## anyways

macks said:


> How about a hobo homebrew network? Bring some ingredients to the jungle, drink the batch and start a new one for the next tramp? Ah, if only a perfect hobo world without the oogles who would fuck that up.


 
hahaha now you're talkin


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## ayron

haha ive been laughing at them for awhile, all these kids smokin cigarets n drinkin alcohol callin themselves anarchists or somthing while they indulge in two of perhaps the biggest forms of social controll employed by the elite few. cracks me up haha. 

But still, im reminded of the double edge sword of hypocrisy so i cant be hating on anyone becuase i eat the systems food and use its money which you could say is even worse


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## pigeon

everyone has to play into the system in one way or another so i can't touch that cuz i'm also guilty but i think this post is totally valuable because it is the kind of attitude i try to have. questioning everything shouldn't stop at the things you like about the system or the stuff that helps you cope with it. i also think people are a little too worried about looking like a wingnut by being openly concerned about "what's really going on". i just think it's oppressive behavior for someone to say "hey guys, you might want to pay attention to this" and then they get mostly responses about how they are going overboard with it because the shit they are talking about is pretty scary if it's true and not easy to prove.

however, the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land, which by the way, a huge part of their holy land is cut off by the mexican border. seriously though, i talked to a guy that used to work for union pacific out here and he told me out near the rez there's always people jumping in front of trains and laying down on the tracks because their lives are fucked and they are in a hopeless position in society. not to mention the fact that genetically they have found that native american genetics make them prone to heavy drinking and they can't metabolize alcohol like most races so it's just a huge mess that i think worked in the u.s. governments favor by accident at first, but now i think they take advantage of it... aye, ok im ranting. sorry.


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## macks

I don't think that disagreeing with someone is oppressive. So stop trying to oppress me by saying the things I'm saying are oppressive! The drunk natives in AZ are depressing as hell. I think at this point the US government would rather have the remaining native population not as fucked so that it was easier to gloss over the terrible things that the US gov't did to put them in the position they are in.


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## pigeon

macks said:


> I don't think that disagreeing with someone is oppressive. So stop trying to oppress me by saying the things I'm saying are oppressive!


 
hahaha i will never oppress you again, but seriously stop oppressing me for calling you oppressive when i think something sounded oppresive. ok?! jeez.


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## anyways

pigeon said:


> however, the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land, which by the way, a huge part of their holy land is cut off by the mexican border. seriously though, i talked to a guy that used to work for union pacific out here and he told me out near the rez there's always people jumping in front of trains and laying down on the tracks because their lives are fucked and they are in a hopeless position in society. not to mention the fact that genetically they have found that native american genetics make them prone to heavy drinking and they can't metabolize alcohol like most races so it's just a huge mess that i think worked in the u.s. governments favor by accident at first, but now i think they take advantage of it... aye, ok im ranting. sorry.



Word.


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## Beegod Santana

"Never trust a man who doesn't drink."
- Hunter S. Thompson on Richard Nixon

I'm gonna be honest with you kids here. Ya'll sound like a buncha youngins who've got your heads in the right places, but are giving the government wwwaayyyy too much credit. The reason booze is cheap and plentiful in this country is the same reason its cheap and plentiful all over the world. People like to get drunk. Smokes, booze and gambling are cheap on the rez because the tribe made a decision to let it be that way. They could refuse to sell these items tax-free or build casinos (as some tribes do) but they went for the easy money. The tribal leaders are as much to blame for the resulting problems as anyone. I really believe that the human love for intoxication is universal enough that no government would have to develop a conspiricy involving booze as a way to subdue the masses. Wanna get people really pissed off and angry? How about making the sale of alcohol and tabacco illegal. Then you'd really see a revolt (there's examples of this all throughout history), only people wouldn't be fighting for the "anarchist state" (whatever the fuck thats supposed to be) but for their god given right to get fucked up. If the government intended to subdue the masses through intoxicants they'd go for the same stuff they've used in the past, good old heroin. But as of right now the feds do most everything in their power to make H seem rather unsavory.

This whole idea that there's a bunch of fat white guys sitting at a table under the pentagon being like "if we subsidize alcohol we'll control all the anarchists because they'll be drunk all the time" is fucking ridiculous. Really the idea that the government spends a lot of time thinking about the anarchist community at all is pretty ridiculous. Oh, I know there's been federal investigations in the past and probably will be the future, but thats what you get when you claim to defect from the government of the land you live in, organize and then go blow up a bunch of buildings. A great metaphor for all this is the crimethinc convergence last year. Everyone really wanted to believe the feds had instigators in the crowd and caused all the drama, but really it was all just a bunch of self proclaimed anarchists bitching at each other.


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## 614 crust

Beegod Santana said:


> A great metaphor for all this is the crimethinc convergence last year. Everyone really wanted to believe the feds had instigators in the crowd and caused all the drama, but really it was all just a bunch of self proclaimed anarchists bitching at each other.


 
Exactly. That shit was fucking stupid. I just sit out back and got drunk with a few other traveling kids most of the time.


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## cranberrydavid

pigeon said:


> the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land,



The way I understand the history, the original purpose of the reservations as independent "nations" was so the government had a loophole not to give rez-born Native Americans citizenship rights. The licenses that BIA sold to agents was a way to make money for the government and keep the native population addicted and submissive, like you say. 

Then when prohibition came around the rez liquor stores turned into goldmines selling booze off-rez. The profits went to the agents, not the tribes. 

Now that most casinos and liquor stores are native owned, the cash is flowing the other direction for the first time in history. I know people on the rez who count it as a victory that "now Indians are getting rich selling vices to White Men."


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## willskith

614 crust said:


> Home brew or steal it when possible fuck the big corporations.


 Just for the record, stealing booze doesn't fuck the corporations, only the stores selling the alcohol. As long as you are consuming the corporations are making money off of you, whether you pay or not.

That said, I've always thought it was a hilarious paradox, seeing self-proclaimed anarchists and anti-capitalists drink corporate beer and smoke corporate cigarettes. This thread is a good one. Glad that anyways wasn't afraid to voice his controversial opinion.


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## coolguyeagle76'

indians are still hungover in minneapolis


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## hassysmacker

So, I'm fairly sure its not an articulated plan, but theres no coincidence there are cornerstores selling cheap alcohol in most every ghetto. If a disenfranchised, oppressed people are not kept busy/pacified, they often wind up getting miltant about fighting the socio-economic conditions they've been handed. of course humans have a penchant for intoxicantsd regardless, but lets not forget the way that they can be used in an oppressive fashion.

the things is about the rez casinos/etc, is their culture got broken, their land got stolen, and they got relocated to barren, destitute lands where they can't really support themselves from the landbase. Go figure a broken culture is forced to play into capitalism, and so, they made a niche, and stay there, because it keeps them afloat, and also, many people, though indigenous by nature, for all intents and purposes wind up identifying more as business people, then as tribepeople.

but fuck "anarchists" who aren't doing any positive work whatsoever in any communities, just getting drunk, travelling, and talking shit, perpetually. fuck that. lets have an honest appraisal of who we are, and what we're doing, and what we're accomplishing.

i feel like that wasn't very well composed, but, oh well.


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## ary

up the drunks........


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## Crisp

What the hell else are you gonna spend your busk money on? There's really nothing else to do when you're traveling but to get swilly


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## 614 crust

willskith said:


> Just for the record, stealing booze doesn't fuck the corporations, only the stores selling the alcohol. As long as you are consuming the corporations are making money off of you, whether you pay or not.
> 
> That said, I've always thought it was a hilarious paradox, seeing self-proclaimed anarchists and anti-capitalists drink corporate beer and smoke corporate cigarettes. This thread is a good one. Glad that anyways wasn't afraid to voice his controversial opinion.


 
AS I SAID I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF AN ANARCHIST AND I COULD REALLY CARE LESS AS LONG AS I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I DRINK TO ENJOY MYSELF AS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING EVERY SINCE ALCOHOL WAS FIRST CREATED. 

now some of you have said the gOVT USES IT TO KEEP US PACIFIED. HA COME HANG OUT WITH ME AFTER A HALF GALLON AND YOU MIGHT JUST SEE A STARBUCKS GET destroyed.


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## usuallyonthefloorsomewher

pissing in the wind.


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## usuallyonthefloorsomewher

steal the beer you anarchist.
--raise the price over time for the poor people trying to buy it. cut profits for the store and force them to freeze raises or lower pay to those same poor people.
burn down that starbucks.
--insurance company picks up the repair tab. 20 baristas are out of work for weeks/months. insurance premiums slowly go up and cost legitimate small business owners and regular people more money. 

destroying public property, corporate property, and private property creates ripples that grow and negatively effect us all. unless youre sooo off the grid you anarchist. 

stealing shit hurts small business owners, taking food out of their mouths. safeway execs dont feel that pinch. the cashier and stocker does. slowly the prices go up and a 40 costs 5bucks. 

youre not an anarchist. youre selfish.


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## willskith

614 crust said:


> AS I SAID I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF AN ANARCHIST AND I COULD REALLY CARE LESS AS LONG AS I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT.


 Never said you were, I was just stating something.


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## 614 crust

usuallyonthefloorsomewher said:


> steal the beer you anarchist.
> --raise the price over time for the poor people trying to buy it. cut profits for the store and force them to freeze raises or lower pay to those same poor people.
> burn down that starbucks.
> --insurance company picks up the repair tab. 20 baristas are out of work for weeks/months. insurance premiums slowly go up and cost legitimate small business owners and regular people more money.
> 
> destroying public property, corporate property, and private property creates ripples that grow and negatively effect us all. unless youre sooo off the grid you anarchist.
> 
> stealing shit hurts small business owners, taking food out of their mouths. safeway execs dont feel that pinch. the cashier and stocker does. slowly the prices go up and a 40 costs 5bucks.
> 
> youre not an anarchist. youre selfish.



IN CASE YOU MISSED IT I SAID I WASN'T AN ANARCHIST. i rarely steal anything and if i do it sure as hell isn't from some small business. and as for the starbucks thing obviously you missed the fucking point there. AND I WOULD NEVER DAMAGE PRIVATE PROPERTY. SO my suggestion TO YOU is to shut tHE FUCK UP SINCE YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW ME AND THEREFORE HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.


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## macks

Do people drink because they don't care or do they not care because they drink? The world may never know, because everyone is too drunk to care.

"but fuck "anarchists" who aren't doing any positive work whatsoever in any communities, just getting drunk, travelling, and talking shit, perpetually. fuck that. lets have an honest appraisal of who we are, and what we're doing, and what we're accomplishing." - hassysmacker

Word. Shit gets on my nerves. It's all well and good going out and having some fun, seeing the country and all that. But really, there's gotta be some shit you wanna do eventually to try and make things better right? Right?


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## Dial

Run a homemade distillery and sell alcohol at a fraction of the price, since there are no taxes going to the government, and it has a much higher APV, too.


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## Pheonix

Dial said:


> Run a homemade distillery and sell alcohol at a fraction of the price, since there are no taxes going to the government, and it has a much higher APV, too.


 
when you sell it is when the ATF start watching you and planning their raid


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## kimberr

Dial said:


> Run a homemade distillery and sell alcohol at a fraction of the price, since there are no taxes going to the government, and it has a much higher APV, too.


 

That's definitely the way to do it. I would prefer to drink someones homemade booze any day. Never get as bad as headaches on the shit that isn't mass produced too.


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## Amish

i like beer, i like smoking, i could give a fuck less who ever is making money over it, i really dont care either way , though i gotta agree, if your an anarchist and your want complete chaos, down with large/major corporations ect. then stand for what you say you are, stop smoking those ciggerettes and drinking that beer, eating that fast food or even those left overs, maybe even stop breathing, cause almost anything you do , or anything youll spend money on, or steal. you will do nothing more then build up strength in those areas for the gov/corp out there. get a farm grow/brew/raise all the things you need and not be dependant on the things you claim to hate aso much.
if you like to drink beer awesome(dont forget sharing is caring)
if you like to smoke great (got a one you can spare )
in any case do what makes you happy and be able to enjoy life with out causeing annoyance and grief to those who might throw you off of cliff, just be and know who you are, and please if your gonna claim your an anarchist know what the fuck your talking about in the first place


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## HBD Junyor

As stated before I think that its obvious there are some enjoyable things in life which are unable to be attained relatively easily without going through one corporate entity or another. Yeah, technically you could abstain from drinking smoking in order to "put a dent" in the "system", but really, what the fuck difference would it make even if every single "Anarchist", "punk" "crusty" or hobo boycotted vice? Already this is a minority fringe demographic, every non politically minded poor person is still gonna indulge in what has been the poor persons relief since the fucking roman empire. It is bread and circus, but I don't see why it isn't possible to take the stance of "I'm gonna consume your product and still fight to destroy you because I like your product and want to make it better and more accessible and not controlled by you?" Besides the point that if your killing yourself than you can't possibly be a very productive member of society, and when your dead you get to finally not participate in the system. 
(I'm aware my logic is slightly flawed so feel free to criticize)


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## RideMoreTrains

this is to the original poster. first of all there are no set of rules to being an anarchist. anarchy is not a lifestyle. to me its labor politics. sure labor politics influence my lifestyle but lifestyle is not the philosophy. i can be an anarchist and still get drunk. 

i like to drink and i do it quite often. i ain't out there chuggin 211 either nor do i have to drink. i go periods without drinking at all especially when it interrupts with work on my bros farm. i go longer with out a drink than i can a joint which is often considered safe and natural. i also drink a lot of micro-brews/local bourbons (i love KY) and do not support multi-national companies. most micro-brews are owned by people that just love making/drinking good beer and don't have billion dollar ad campaigns. 
some micro brews (if not most) are worker owned and operated.


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## Myechtatel

i'm not going to read every post here. i just want to say that i agree wholeheartedly. i'm not exactly a shining image of an anarchist but i believe everything counts. you have to make change to perpetuate it. whether it's not eating meat, not drinking, not watching television, dumpsterdiving.... it's a small step towards being a better person and making the world a better place. of course when you accuse someone of being less radical than you, they're going to point out your weaknesses to cope with their own. but then what are you left with? people need to learn to help each other. people who drink and smoke and claim to be anarchists know it's hypocritical. so help them. same goes with anything else that's pro-capitalist. using the internet, whatever. we're all guilty. i will say though that i have recently started traveling, met a lot of people on the road and been to a rainbow gathering and i was surprised and dissapointed how many travelers are not radical minded at but just young hobos. dirty drunk apathetic and apolitical. it warms my heart to know that people like you("anyways") are out there.


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## outskirts

Shitty coffee is reason enough for someone to burn down a Starsucks! lol


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## Dameon

I don't get why people think traveling and being an anarchist are supposed to be the same thing. Just because it's become trendy in anarchist communities to hop a train doesn't mean that the traveling community at large has anything to do with anarchy. Personally, I'm sick of people eating out of dumpsters just because their friends are doing it and they think they're bringing down the corporations. Me and MY friends do it because we need to eat, and every douchebag anarchist doing it to be cool means less food for me.

This isn't a matter of travelers becoming apolitical, this is a matter of hipster anarchists becoming travelers because everybody at their Food Not Bombs house thinks that hopping a train is super anarchist. Then they get pissed off at travelers because we didn't all hop on a train so we could write a zine about it and how we're screwing the government by not following their rules. It's bullshit, and it's annoying. Life on the road has nothing to do with anarchy for most people, and it never has. I want nothing to do with anarchists; most of them are elitist assholes who think the world revolves around them, and who really only want to hang out with other anarchists who will jerk them off while they talk about how they're changing the world by eating out of the trash.


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## HackTrick

deleted


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## Monkeywrench

I love how anarchists feel the need to police the traveling community.


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## drun_ken

if its been said once its been said a million times....here it goes again......

because all our friends are....because we can't get along with anyone...because we always wear black anyway....because we like writing circle a's on everything....because the parties are better....because we want a political reason for being on welfare.....because its the coolest.....because everybody looks cool in a balaclava.....because everyone rejects us anyway....because we don't want to stand on the street coroner and sell the socialist worker for 50 (what the hell there is no cents sign on this keyboard)....because we like big boots...because the poster art is funkier...because army surplus is so cheap...because it makes spitting acceptable.....because we don't like to wash our cloths...because socialists never put fuck in their chants....because there are no bad hair days....because we are so disorganized that no one can take over the movement...because we never have to show up on time, show up well dressed, or show up at all if we don't want to...*because we can scorn consumption yet still drink beer*...because anyone can sing the music...because hierarchy's so much more effective when its unacknowledged... because it politicizes kleptomania...because anything can be blamed on the state...because following the recipe is boring...because we can't stick to one ideology...because its fun to beak the law...because you can dream of dying heroically if not painfully...because who can get thru das kapitol anyway...because we are easily bored...because we can glorify our poverty...because there is nothing like the adrenaline rush of jaywalking.....because the flags are so easy to make...because of noam....because jail gives you an excuse ta eat meat and watch t.v....because we are bitter and cynical...because it pisses off our parents...because we need a theory for everything...because we like our attitude problems.... because we doubt....for these and for no particular reasons at all we are anarkishts..


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## Nelco

Honestly I've questioned myself on why i'm purchasing smokes and booze.


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## outskirts

Nelco said:


> Honestly I've questioned myself on why i'm purchasing smokes and booze.


Well one can always grow they're own tobacco and make they're own booze. I've done both, lots of work
though, especially when you have a lot of other projects on your plate.


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## Nelco

It goes together, because it makes you utterly useless to society..but the downside is that it makes you utterly useless.


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## Nelco

outskirts said:


> Well one can always grow they're own tobacco and make they're own booze. I've done both, lots of work
> though, especially when you have a lot of other projects on your plate.



I'm trying to quit smoking..already quit drinking


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## Heron

anyways said:


> Discuss.


 
yeh i definitely see yer point. there's a lot of stuff this shit applies to as well.

personally, i've never paid for booze. well, i mean i've never paid for booze in a way where money would get to the corporations that make it. and yehh idk anyway, corporations are pure evil in general but it doesn't mean every booze corporation is equally pure evil. some might be on the not-so-bad end of the scale. then again maybe they are, and tobacco companies sure as fuck are.

anyway, idk what the solution is for people that can't help but booze it up. steal yer shit? you'll get caught eventually. buy lemon/orange extract and drink that shit? you've all think ya got too much class for that. make yer own? well ya damn well should but most of us don't stick in one place for long so we've barely got long enough for primary fermentation on some sock-flavoured dumpster-fruit wine to complete, let alone stick around for the months-to-years it takes to get a decent flavour to it.

but if yer staying in one place and you booze it up much, you better be making yer own rather than buying it, that's fer sure.


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## thisisme

Dameon said:


> Just because it's become trendy in anarchist communities to hop a train doesn't mean that the traveling community at large has anything to do with anarchy. Personally, I'm sick of people eating out of dumpsters just because their friends are doing it and they think they're bringing down the corporations. Me and MY friends do it because we need to eat, and every douchebag anarchist doing it to be cool means less food for me.
> 
> This isn't a matter of travelers becoming apolitical, this is a matter of hipster anarchists becoming travelers because everybody at their Food Not Bombs house thinks that hopping a train is super anarchist. Then they get pissed off at travelers because we didn't all hop on a train so we could write a zine about it and how we're screwing the government by not following their rules. It's bullshit, and it's annoying. Life on the road has nothing to do with anarchy for most people, and it never has. I want nothing to do with anarchists; most of them are elitist assholes who think the world revolves around them, and who really only want to hang out with other anarchists who will jerk them off while they talk about how they're changing the world by eating out of the trash.



i agree some anarchists can be very elitist, but so can train hopping schwilly kids and punk rockers and just about any other social group. Some of your statements come off sounding pretty elitist too. so anarchists eat out of dumpsters because its trendy and cool, but you and your "REAL" traveler friends do it because you have to? really come on. just about anyone who travels can get foodstamps if they really want. in my opinion, anyone who travels is a REAL traveler. it seems ur doing exactly what ur bitching about as far as the us vs them mentality, always trying to out do eachother instead of just being accepting of one another. Even if its some harvard law student eating out of the dumpster- awesome, more power to them! at least theyre trying to do something. Better they do that than go buy a big mac. this mentality that you have more of a right to eat out of the dumpster or hop trains than someone else is juvenile.


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## katbastard

i think drinking is kinda dumb my self. but i used to do alot of drugs when i was unger. i will be 30 this year and i smoke alot of tobacco because i like to smoke. i will drink once in a blue moon. but it kinda bugs me to see people drinking to get fucked up every day, or smoking pot all day for that matter. at the same time, i dont have to be around them, and if they happen to be in my place when they get stupid i ask them to leave. so to each his/her own.


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## katbastard

thisisme said:


> i agree some anarchists can be very elitist, but so can train hopping schwilly kids and punk rockers and just about any other social group. Some of your statements come off sounding pretty elitist too. so anarchists eat out dumpsters because its trendy and cool, but you and your "REAL" traveler friends do it because you have to? really come on. just about anyone who travels can get foodstamps if they really want. in my opinion, anyone who travels is a REAL traveler. it seems ur doing exactly what ur bitching about as far as the us vs them mentality, always trying to out do one eachother instead of just being accepting of one another. Even if its some harvard law student eating out of the dumpster- awesome, more power to them! at least theyre trying to do something. Better they do that than go buy a big mac. this mentality that you have more of a right to eat out of the dumpster than someone else is juvenile.


agree


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## quagRZ

do what you want, as long as your not hurting anyone around you fuck what they think about your actions and reasons. you are your own person, just live your life.


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## dprogram

pigeon said:


> everyone has to play into the system in one way or another so i can't touch that cuz i'm also guilty but i think this post is totally valuable because it is the kind of attitude i try to have. questioning everything shouldn't stop at the things you like about the system or the stuff that helps you cope with it. i also think people are a little too worried about looking like a wingnut by being openly concerned about "what's really going on". i just think it's oppressive behavior for someone to say "hey guys, you might want to pay attention to this" and then they get mostly responses about how they are going overboard with it because the shit they are talking about is pretty scary if it's true and not easy to prove.
> 
> however, the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land, which by the way, a huge part of their holy land is cut off by the mexican border. seriously though, i talked to a guy that used to work for union pacific out here and he told me out near the rez there's always people jumping in front of trains and laying down on the tracks because their lives are fucked and they are in a hopeless position in society. not to mention the fact that genetically they have found that native american genetics make them prone to heavy drinking and they can't metabolize alcohol like most races so it's just a huge mess that i think worked in the u.s. governments favor by accident at first, but now i think they take advantage of it... aye, ok im ranting. sorry.



I like this grrls point of view. Sorry. Woman's point of view, You are on tip...slang for my county Tipton. The only borders are those that we create or abide by.


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## dprogram

BTW. I relate to all American Indians (hate that term) since I am part Cherokee and Irish.


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## plagueship

all i know is that drinking and smoking is more fun than pretending you're going to save the world from capitalism


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## xbocax

i have endless fun pretending and dont gotta drink piss or huff smoke


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## viking

Alcohol isn't social control. We've been drinking since (at least) we started farming thousands of years ago. Corporations produce alcohol because people like it. Not _everything_ is a conspiracy.


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## Gudj

viking said:


> Alcohol isn't social control. We've been drinking since (at least) we started farming thousands of years ago. Corporations produce alcohol because people like it. Not _everything_ is a conspiracy.


 
It's a pretty popular sentiment that farming thousands of years ago was the beginning of social control as we know it. If you want to talk more about that, read some of the primitivism threads.
Not everything is a conspiracy, but pretty much everything that is bought or sold today has a connection to oppressors. 





> i have endless fun pretending and dont gotta drink piss or huff smoke


 haha, I almost loled


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## thisisme

Gudj said:


> It's a pretty popular sentiment that farming thousands of years ago was the beginning of social control as we know it. If you want to talk more about that, read some of the primitivism threads.
> Not everything is a conspiracy, but pretty much everything that is bought or sold today has a connection to oppressors.


 
agreed^^^


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## pigpen

Just figured i'd bring this up. when you steal beer, you're stealing from the supermarket, who paid for it already.

I'll still do it when i can and will even buy booze if i really want it bad enough to look past the "moral" (for lack of a better word) implications.

On an unrelated side note, has anyone ever been to barclay house in Baltimore? I forget the dudes name but the band i'm in stayed/played there on tour and the guy with home brew tatted on his knucks made some of the best tasting beverage that i was ever blessed to have pass my lips.


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## bicycle

I love this thread. I really do.


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## crazy john

you definatley have a point there, it would be much more anarchist to grow your own tabacco and brew your own beer. theres always pabst which makes a fine brew and colt 45 and is family run. but asfar as i am personally concerned, before i even thought of the consecuences (at about 10 years old) i was already smoking a pack a day and chgging asmuch booze as i could get my hands on and have been fucked ever since. ive tried to quit several times but it has yet to stick. it becomes a craveing that is easier to feed than put off because your feeding into the system, and besides, after you grab some food from the worker owned supermarket with the money you spanged up in the hot sun all day, i nice bugler and ice cold brew definatley hits the spot hahaha


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## acrata4ever

ok i dont know how simpler to put this. wanna smash the state? DONT PAY TAXES! dont wanna pay the cigarette tax? roll your own from pipe tobacco 13 bucks for 200 cigarettes. dont wanna pay the lenient pipe tobacco tax? buy tobacco seeds and GROW YOUR OWN. dont wanna pay the alcohol tax? MAKE YOUR OWN: jail wine, beer/whiskey still. OR you can QUIT.


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## flashinglights

Acrata4ever nails it:

-Don't pay taxes
-Grow your own
-Make your own

And I'd add one more:

*Or trade/buy from someone who grew or made their own - after all, not everyone needs to do everything for themselves.

I never smoked cigs but I do like beer, cut it out for financial reasons lately and to set my alcoholic progression back a few notches... homebrew or found fruit wine will be very tempting when I inevitably start back up. So many fruit trees go to waste now - plums and cherries everywhere that make fantastic wine.

The productivity point is also very real: if you're drinking in the AM you're not gonna be getting anything constructive done towards a better world that day. We should at least be saving it for after the gardening, repair work and jam sessions


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## xbocax

the way i see it is beer, cigs, weed, all them drugs are things that people do to loosen up a little. I think if all these things were taken away for a month or so people would get really pist and actually have to come to terms with the fact that our society does not work for us. Our jobs do not have our best interests for us etc etc. Probably then when people arent in a sedated state things might start headin in the right direction. Now to be realistic there are still ways to relieve ones self from the crap we see everyday but not support big corporations and fuck up some organ or muscle in their body. Pretty much any hobby works well something that offers a sense of accomplishment. For me its working on bikes and going hiking. Hikings really good because it allows me to breathe and reminds me how disconnected most of us are from nature with the way our houses and cities are built.


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## AnarchoNomad

Is getting drunk frequently a good idea? Probably not. Does doing so mean you aren't "A real anarchist?" That is asinine.
Why do people try to tell others what "real anarchists" can and can't do? Seems a bit self contradictory to me.


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## Ri Raw

gotta make some hooch! only way to go. still you have to buy or steal the ingredients but its alot cheaper than buying booze from the store. Any dependence is gonna cost you one way or another. As for ciggs i decided to quit for my birthday which was 4 days ago and so far its fucking terrible but ive only smoked one cigg so fuck the man!


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## Thrasymachus

Being an anarchist, first off is largely useless in terms of actually achieving anything personally or socially and is actually alot in-line with useless subcultural identities like being a punk. That said people big into drugs and alcohol are generally flakey and untrustworthy in any case, but especially a liability when you could be a target of law authorities if you are one of the minority of anarchists that does agitate.

Daniel McGowan and alot of other ELF militants likely wouldn't be jail if they had the sense to stay clear of characters like heroin and meth addict, turned snitch and informer, Jacob Ferguson:
http://www.supportdaniel.org/media/faultlines.html

Lately this quote has been making headlines:


The Nation said:


> Why the Campus Rape Crisis Confounds Colleges
> 
> According to an April report of the White House Task Force to Protect Students From Sexual Assault, “One in five women is sexually assaulted in college.” This figure, which comes from the National Institute of Justice’s 2007 “Campus Sexual Assault Study ...



If you read that excellent article you will find that most of these incidents go unreported and the woman are raped by "friends". Due to the extensive youth drinking and drug culture, both parties get so wasted they essentially become different personas compared to their sober selves:


The Nation said:


> During her freshman year at Occidental College in Los Angeles in 2010, Audrey Logan says, she was raped on two separate occasions by a young man she considered a friend. Because she knew him and had been very drunk both times, it took a while for her to identify what had happened as an assault. ...


That is what modern drinking and drug culture has produced. As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:


The Nation said:


> According to a National Institute of Justice study, campus rape victims who are incapacitated by drugs or alcohol very rarely report their attacks to police, and more than a third say it’s because they didn’t realize a crime was committed or harm was intended. “It wasn’t until a close friend at another school simply listened and validated my feelings that I finally was able to start my arduous healing process,” Logan says.



It is better to just avoid such social scenes where people only feel they need alcohol and drugs to be comfortable in a social setting. But especially if you really plan to be an activist or social justice militant, you would be a damned fool to associate with drunks and drug addicts who are so easy for the authorities to turn.


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## Kim Chee

Thrasymachus said:


> As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:



I'm gonna slip you some roofies, put my weiner in your butt and when you wake up, you're going to "discover" you've been "victimized" and that your ass is bleeding, straightedge or not.

Back on topic:
I'd rather make my own alcohol when possible and I don't smoke (although I have grown tobacco). Those corporations which produce alcohol and tobacco aren't any better than any other corporation. It is a shame that people who purchase their products can probably make more better for less and have fun doing it at the same time.


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## Thrasymachus

Well since I am straight-edge, I don't get so out of my mind, that I need to have post-fact conservations with friends to discover if I was violated or not. Also I don't think the traditional victim - perpetrator dichotomy of rape applies, here. The article and even one of the victims admit as much:


The Nation said:


> Audrey Logan says ... “I really believed rape happened in the dark, by people you barely or don’t know, and weapons or group force were always involved" ....



Again like I said and advised avoiding flakey, untrustworthy people is a good habit in life. They won't help you when you need it, most likely, and they will most likely disappoint you. And a good way to do that is distance yourself from the druggie and heavy drinking scenes. Especially so if you are trying to fight the system, which most anarchists, aren't admittedly. Thousands of social justice militants have been jailed because of turned druggies and drinkers who initially got into trouble for those activities and snitched their way into freedom by offering up someone else's head.


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## Kim Chee

Thrasymachus said:


> As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:



There's nothing funny about rape. I don't wish it upon anybody, but if there was a line of people waiting to get raped, I'd put you at the front and keep you there until some time after you stopped laughing.


On topic: Yes, drugs and alcohol tend to take the motivational spark out of people whether it is anarchy, work, relationships or any other worthwhile endeavor.


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## Art101

I embraced the whole nihilism thing at like 14 and it was Damn the torpedos for me.I lost friends jobs and a lot of time thanx to the booze. It did stifle my creativity except for finding ways to stay fucked up. I have been sober for 3yrs now and I find I can look at shit alot more clearly and have more rational discussions.As for Anarchists and booze and drugs,the people I have had the best convos with were straight edge.


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## scrutable

I agree that alcoholics and junkies can be a problem (though some of the staunchest people I've known have been junkies), and it's not desirable to be dependant on anything, but you can drink and take drugs in moderation.

I don't take drugs or smoke but I drink reasonably often, get drunk occasionally. It's no problem in my life nor in that of many people I know. Christ, almost
everyone drinks, from brickies to high court judges.

In Oz you can get chop-chop (black market tobacco from the field). There's lots of small breweries and vineyards too so you can definately avoid multinational corporations.

Moderation and self control is the ideal, to hell with abstinence, life's to be enjoyed at least a little.


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## Art101

I enjoy my life plenty,now more so then ever.Some people have great self control and such my hat is off to them.I do everything to the nth degree so I have chose to be clean and sober.


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## scrutable

Ghostbo said:


> I enjoy my life plenty,now more so then ever.Some people have great self control and such my hat is off to them.I do everything to the nth degree so I have chose to be clean and sober.


I'm not telling anyone they have to smoke, drink and take drugs, was just commenting that this thread is being a bit puritanical.


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## Art101

I think it is more of a reaction in the US to constant drunk and high wandering about.It has become an issue here;at least.Thus some of the reactions.I try to be a live and let live kinda person but personally I get tired of seeing people in the "homeless" community acting the way they do, and expecting that it will be an accepted expression of their "politically motivated " actions.


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## scrutable

Ghostbo said:


> I think it is more of a reaction in the US to constant drunk and high wandering about.It has become an issue here;at least.Thus some of the reactions.I try to be a live and let live kinda person but personally I get tired of seeing people in the "homeless" community acting the way they do, and expecting that it will be an accepted expression of their "politically motivated " actions.


I think you're always going to get that though, at least in any loose community of homeless people. 
People shouldn't claim some sort of moral highground because they booze and take drugs, but I think they have every right to drink and use drugs.
I've never understood the straightedge mentality on sex, smoking, drugs and so on. As far as I'm concerned moderation with the occasional excess is the way to do it.
They're good ways to unwind.
But anyway, I'm fine with people not drinking, just not so keen on people saying others shouldn't.


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## Art101

I never said they couldnt or shouldnt in fact I believe I actually said live and let live.I myself after much experimentation have realized I dont need it.I never said people shouldnt get drink fuck or get high.As you qouted me then you are not understanding what I am trying to say or dont want to understand.


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## scrutable

Ghostbo said:


> I never said they couldnt or shouldnt in fact I believe I actually said live and let live.I myself after much experimentation have realized I dont need it.I never said people shouldnt get drink fuck or get high.As you qouted me then you are not understanding what I am trying to say or dont want to understand.


Read the post that starts the thread, then consider my comments here.
I'm not responding to you alone.


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## Odin

Thrasymachus said:


> That said people big into drugs and alcohol are generally flakey and untrustworthy in any case



I drink like a fucking fish. 
I also have my "responsibilities" more or less together. 
I have problems with depression but I don't let them make me an asshat.
I run into travelers and folks with "problems" all the time. Sometimes I can kick sometimes just get a sandwhich. 
Mostly they are just glad to have someone to chat with for a minute.
I would like to get more motivation to do more. Food not bombs... travel... meet people and generally be nice. 
(I have not yet... thats my problem... along with drinking... but I don't let that make me a dickwad)
nothing wrong with being straight edge if thats what you need. 
I find my drinking does not make me a horrible person.(I only harm myself... and this damn depression thing... I guess I just have brain chemistry... or just think I see the sad world sometimes... (kinda a tunnel vison somedays)... 




Thrasymachus said:


> That is what modern drinking and drug culture has produced. As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:



Now if you want to make me angry.
That will do it. 
Trying to make a person that was raped feel guilty for what happened to them??
Now you have me seeing red.
And I don't have any real contact with straight edge culture. 
But if your supposed to be my first interaction with that culture. I have no good opinion of you. As a matter of fact I think that kind of thinking is dangerous. And your opinion of it being funny disgusting.
Good thing I take people one by one as I meet and get to know them. 
That way if I do meet a straight edge person that is not you... I will greet with a handshake and a smile. 

But you know the next person you meet that has a drinking or drug problem. I hope they steer clear of you. Sympathy is anathema to your vocabulary.


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## Art101

There is nothing funny about rape I totally agree with you Odin and I dont consider myself straight edge.I still smoke tobacco its one of my last vices nor will I preach sobriety to anyone or shun them if they drink.That said I do have an issue with people that will come into a camp agreeing it is a"safe place" get drunk and cause mayhem.My experience with that was the occupy movement.Generally everyone I know drinks and or smokes weed.I respect their choices and they respect mine and it is great.Now if they want help getting sober I am right there to encourage and guide them onto the path I have taken. I lost someone very close to an od on prescription drugs which I think is the worst issue going right now and Docs seem to be the pushers of death in my mind.Anyways thats my 2 cents on that.


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## West

Booze has long been a drug of oppression because it gives the rabble something to do other than get together and organize in their community. Maybe a stretch, but drugs have been used this way many times by capitalist governments. England used to ship vast quantities of opium to China, getting their government and population addicted so that they could better colonize. The Reagan administration put down the growing unrest and organization of the communist Black Panthers and black neighborhoods in the US by shipping in large quantities of Cocaine to those neighborhoods and declaring the war on drugs to punish users simultaneously.

I enjoy a good drink or toke now and again but I try to stay far from becoming addicted as possible because I tend to get addicted easily. Its a personal decision with larger ramifications.


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## West

willskith said:


> Just for the record, stealing booze doesn't fuck the corporations, only the stores selling the alcohol. As long as you are consuming the corporations are making money off of you, whether you pay or not.
> 
> The store has already purchased the alcohol, as far as I'm aware. Stealing the alcohol harms the store but it doesn't help the alcohol corporations.


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