# overly politically correct people



## jade

Me, my boyfriend and our friend were in Minneapolis for the RNC, we were squatting at a house known as the Ghost House with about 5 other kids. My boyfriend and I had met the kids there, but our friend knew their friends. This was a very PC house, it was to the point that being politically correct was done to avoid being snapped at for not asking what gender pronoun someone prefers. People there were very dogmatic about it. When my friend referred to a girl we met that day on the street as a chick he was snapped on and called a patriarch. When he apologized and explained that he didn't mean in a patronizing way, just as a synonym for girl, they made a rule for him to work on it. It was also a sober space, where we had regular group meetings. These people did not know how to squat either, they had bright candles burning at night that you could see from outside, they would pile up their bikes outside the squat entrance, and they had fridges, and other appliances plugged in. After about 3 days of squatting there the kids tell us that we can't stay there any longer because they didn't know us for long enough before hand, and it goes against their security culture rules because don't have good enough credibility. We knew this was a bullshit lie, suspecting the real reason behind them wanting us out was differences in our viewpoints, but they just didn't have the guts to be honest about it. So we left the next morning, spanged for the day and then started squating in the house next door, which we named the unsober squat. Eventually they got pissy about us being there, and talked to my boyfriend about it, it which they told us that the real reason we got kicked out was because our friend was politically correct enough and if we wanted to come back we would have to distance ourselves from him, in which we said uh no thanx you guys are pretentious fucks. I encounter this attitude a lot in the activist scene.


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## Matt Derrick

yeah it's funny how the "activist" scene gets so dogmatic about that kinda stuff that it really does become a religion to them without them even noticing it. it's basically what i consider to be the "lunatic leftist fringe" that are just so pc and high and fucking mighty that they end of alienating people that aren't privilidged enough to have that same opinion because no matter how much they "acknoledge" their privilage, they're still white middle class kids that don't have to work for a living.

that's really the whole reason nothing ever gets done in the activst scene here in the states, because these people are too busy building their own little clubs/clicks of people that think EXACTLY like them, instead of diversifying themselves and trying to understand and help the people that need it and working with people that have different viewpoints other than their own and respecting that.

so yeah, while ill be the first to say 'fuck apathy/scumfucks' (the right side of the scale), ill also say 'fuck pretentious activist fucks' (the far left side of the scale). who's left over, you ask? the rest of us, the people in the middle, who i like to think of as reasonable, tolerant people that just want to get shit done!

one of the big ironies of this whole situation is that these assholes WONT EVEN FUCKING BE HERE IN FIVE YEARS. think about it, they're either going to sell out, get the suv and go about their lives, or end up as old fucking insane shitty hippies either living in condos or out away from society. either way, their not doing shit for the world after they put in their "college years". just like the punk scene, almost no one is still rocking a mohawk at 40 (or even 30).

so yeah, fuck those people, they'll sellout soon enough. the real activists never stop making change in their local communities where it really makes a difference.

/rant


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## Bendixontherails

mattpist said:


> just like the punk scene, almost no one is still rocking a mohawk at 40 (or even 30).



you've got to admit though, it IS hard to look cool with a mohawk that ends at a bald spot!

but I agree. elitism is totally fuckin' useless. it prevents the accomplishment of actual goals, and stops the spread of information dead in it's tracks. if everyone in the room has the same viewpoints on most things,( which pretty much only happens if you do it on purpose ), there's no dissension. dissension breeds debate. debate breeds thought.

we NEED new ideas in our heads to stop apathy. if we only hang with people who have the same thoughts as we do, it's much harder to remain interested/interesting/meaningful.

just my 2cents.


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## spoorprint

I ran into an interesting variation -what R.D. Lang used to call a double bind(Damned if you do, damned if you don't). I mistakenly referred to a transgendered f>m person (who was very
androgynous) as she during one of the trainings and got schooled on it.So I thought, o.k., I'll work on it.

The next week I visit some old Lesbian friends and they go into a rant about how "Queer politics" is a betrayal of the liberating potential of radical feminism(because it implies fixed gender roles consistent with anatomy.) They see women becoming men as "running to male privilege.

I'm just gonna try to call everyone what they want to be called, try to treat everyone as individuals, thats all I can do.


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## Dameon

I would rather kill myself (or preferably, somebody else) than stay at a place like that. "Politically correct" is bullshit that people need to drop. I don't need to watch what I say and be sensitive to what terms everybody prefers, they need to grow a thicker skin so they don't feel an overwhelming urge to whine every time somebody says "chick" in reference to a girl. I've never even been on a ranch, but I don't get upset when somebody calls me a dude.

Most activists are, frankly, pretentious fucks. This is probably closely tied to the belief that you make a difference, protesting meat companies, genetically modified crops, and raising awareness about such important issues as...whatever those people consider important that the rest of us really don't care about. I would go so far as to say that many of them are intellectuals with so little idea of the real world that, if thrown into a cage with a hungry lion, they would attempt to talk it into turning vegetarian.


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## elokupa

activism = hurling bricks around with a bandana over your face


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## finn

Hey, this is a great idea, let's use peer pressure and oppression to get rid of... oppression and peer pressure! Haha. A lot of college activists start forming cults after a while and then they disintegrate after alienating everyone around them.


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## skunkpit

iv been in similar situations involving roadkill and people "actively protesting" its processing within 100 meters of them.. its fuckin food.. the great suv gods killed that squirrel or raccoon or possum or deer or bear, and for some reason the great god only kills for sport...
anyways 
i think over pc'ness is a distraction from the big fuckin picture, its not just factory farming we gotta worry about, or little trivial social drama in a squat.. its fuckin using oil to ship your goddamn goji berries raped from the hemalian mountains to you while the tofu truck rushes to provide a vegan meal while slotering animals on the highways..

instead of bickering about social ethics.. why not... use that energy to do something useful like, learn to skin, tan hides, process sinew, collect wild edibles, ask someone to teach you about wild plants in your area..

symbiotic relation ship i suppose, people who buy food consequently leave tasty nutrient rich animals flailed all over roads everywhere, the skill of hunting if important and vital in a survival situation but because so many animals are dead and dieing everywhere anyways on roads, i dont find it necessary to hunt yet..


blah /rant


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## elokupa

think of the amount of oil used to mine the metals from the earth for rifles, then shipping the metals, then the energy used to make rifle shapes, then shipping the final products. not to mention the bullet production...

bow and arrow! and not those carbon titanium super-duper modern bows. you can make your own with relative ease...


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## Christopher

I'll admit you were kicked out for differing view points, but the only thing we had plugged in was a refrigerator. We were able to keep our bikes outside because we had talked to most of the neighbors and been really friendly with them. The reason we ended up leaving the spot was because you had squatted the house next door by going in through a street facing door, so to avoid both of our spots getting ruined we left.


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## spoorprint

elokupa said:


> activism = hurling bricks around with a bandana over your face



Honestly, the only violence I saw was police violence-which was out of control.I saw some spray painting I don't think even the cops are alleging more happened.


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## Ravie

My one encounter was with a bunch of hippies that thought they were changing the world for the better by doing acid and talking about how Jesus eats cheetos. But the second I walk into their squat with my dog i got the constant feeling of paranoia like when i fall asleep if i dont spoon my pack and keep my dog on a leash next to me something is going to go missing. They pretty much would have treated me like shit because I was punk if I had let them. Oh and get this, they actually were fucking with my dog and throwing shit at her because they thought because she wasn't a pitt bull she was a pussy. Other than all that i put in $40 for beer, got 6 beers out of all that, and still had to sleep on the back porch. Why the fuck did I stay? Normally i would have Just taken the booze and left but i was stuck in a part of town i didnt know without a sleeping bag and i was baby sitting a young female friend of mine who refused to leave. Fuckin hippies.


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## hilltop hiker

jade said:


> ...in which we said uh no thanx you guys are pretentious fucks. I encounter this attitude a lot in the activist scene.



somebody had to do it. my patience would not have lasted.


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## dirtyfacedan

Fuck those assholes. Who needs that shit anyways. Life is bungle enough without some asshole trying to dangle a squat over your head.
I find fucks like these often become exactly what they are trying to not be....controlling manipulative shitheads. talk is cheap, actions are louder than words i find.


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## beat_tramp

mattpist said:


> yeah it's funny how the "activist" scene gets so dogmatic about that kinda stuff that it really does become a religion to them without them even noticing it. it's basically what i consider to be the "lunatic leftist fringe" that are just so pc and high and fucking mighty that they end of alienating people that aren't privilidged enough to have that same opinion because no matter how much they "acknoledge" their privilage, they're still white middle class kids that don't have to work for a living.
> 
> that's really the whole reason nothing ever gets done in the activst scene here in the states, because these people are too busy building their own little clubs/clicks of people that think EXACTLY like them, instead of diversifying themselves and trying to understand and help the people that need it and working with people that have different viewpoints other than their own and respecting that.
> 
> so yeah, while ill be the first to say 'fuck apathy/scumfucks' (the right side of the scale), ill also say 'fuck pretentious activist fucks' (the far left side of the scale). who's left over, you ask? the rest of us, the people in the middle, who i like to think of as reasonable, tolerant people that just want to get shit done!
> 
> one of the big ironies of this whole situation is that these assholes WONT EVEN FUCKING BE HERE IN FIVE YEARS. think about it, they're either going to sell out, get the suv and go about their lives, or end up as old fucking insane shitty hippies either living in condos or out away from society. either way, their not doing shit for the world after they put in their "college years". just like the punk scene, almost no one is still rocking a mohawk at 40 (or even 30).
> 
> so yeah, fuck those people, they'll sellout soon enough. the real activists never stop making change in their local communities where it really makes a difference.
> 
> /rant



Well fuckin said Matt.Yeah the problem is is that these priviledged upper middle class fuckers(not that theres anything wrong with someone for being born priviledged but they should be a little more fucking humble if they are) are mostly concerened with just satisfying their egos than true concern for the world situation.


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## Birdy

Widerstand said:


> I would rather sleep outside in the worst weather in the world then have some fuck little stupid kid call me a patriarch cause I refereed to a women as chick.



I don't really know why, but right after I read that sentence juice almost came out of my nose from me laughing.


People like that really get under my skin. They make me feel like just because I don't know EVERYTHING about that one subject I shouldn't even be alive, and to them I say a kind FUCK YOU.

I am one lazy SOB and I personally don't give two fucks about who calls me what or what I call other people I'd rather just sleep all day and eat when my tummy growls. Damn people like that take the fun out of life and piss me off.


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## DFA

90% of the neo-hippies I have met are like this, which is why I don't like neo-hippies or even hippies for that matter....


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## Benny

I agree!! I have traveled all over this country and the most uptight people I ever met were, jackass hippies. No different than a gang member or a preppie fuck.


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## finn

The worst thing is not that they're uptight, but that they won't step up if there is oppression in the form of actual violence. They're all words.


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## Raging Bird

PC punks are among the least happy people I have ever met in my entire life.


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## incrustwetrust

i agree with a lot of the statements made here, but i definitley do not think its fair to cast these judgements on activists in general. there are good people out there putting in good work for things that need to be done that still remember to have fun too. and i dont think its unreasonable to request someone not use a certain type of language, but getting confrontational about it if the person is not actually a bigot is counterproductive. i have seen many punks become allienated from activist groups for not being pc enough, but ive also seen people become really allienated from friends who couldnt stop saying gay as a perjurotive term or something. its a balance. building a movement means being open to everyones needs, even when there in conflict i guess.


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## Ravie

know what i hate? those little hippy groups that preach of love and acceptance.... until they meet someone that has their own point of view and not theirs.


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## Critical Rupture

This is a pretty boring conversation, but hell, Im a hypocrite...

The US is by far (well, at least the most) _PC_ place I've ever been. Though some European countries have similar tendencies. But in a nutshell, I think if you are to look at how things work elsewhere, like things in southern Europe, _"identity politics"_ are not so important.

Hence the riots in Greece. Hehe.

Ok, so its not that simple, but... its a point to how things can work as opposed to _"identity politics"_.

However, places such a that, Greece for example, are infamous for bad social oppressions. _Machismo_ is pretty rampant for example.

So yeah, these _"PC fascists"_ might be douchebags, and even too over the top with the way they uphold their politics. However, I do not think that necessarily is a reason to discredit their ideas.

Dogma is *always* a problem.


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## Raging Bird

hippies are alright, getting worked up enough over anything to not get along with people generally sucks.


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## Dmac

I hate people who hate.


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## dVEC

Simple tolerance is more A//E than a thousand rules of being PC...


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## dirty_rotten_squatter

One we werent going in throgh the street facing door two the neighbors were fine with us too. They even smoked us up! We were more discreet about ours though and we welcomed aybody in regardless if we knew them or not. Fucj being politically correct and fuck activism these days, you atleast have to admit that that CHICK was ignorant for getting her feelings all bundled up because someone called her that! But the past is past, man I can tell you one thing though, fuck getting into all this bandana wearing activist b/s Im just gonna ride the rails.


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## veggieguy12

"P.C." is ridiculous.
I gotta recommend a book called _Snow Men_, by Carolyn Chute. (I stole it from Barnes & Noble after I read _Evasion_. Kidding, Widerstand!)
The main character, some "Right-wing militia guy from Maine", says to a liberal wife of a Democrat Senator, "There ain't no Left or Right, there's just up and down, and we're down and they got their fuckin' boots on our necks." (I'm quoting from memory, so it's likely a lil' different.)



curbscore said:


> I mistakenly referred to a transgendered f>m person (who was very androgynous) as she during one of the trainings and got schooled on it.So I thought, o.k., I'll work on it.



Y'know, honestly, I might sound like an asshole/dickhead with a stupid hard line here, but I think changing gender is a reaction to societal conditioning of what Men are like and what Women are like, and the individual then feels that since he/she doesn't conform, he/she needs to have a "transition".
I don't believe it ought to be done, but rather, that the gender roles need to be disregarded and abandoned. And it _couldn't_ be done if not for the high-tech industrial age (attaching a 'penis', reforming one into a 'vagina', implanting 'breasts' or 'growing' them with synthesized and extracted hormones).
And there's something self-important to me in people having to be called _this_ or _that_ - am I gonna complain if someone refers to me as "she" instead of "he"? How much does it matter, ultimately?



curbscore said:


> The next week I visit some old Lesbian friends and they go into a rant about how "Queer politics" is a betrayal of the liberating potential of radical feminism (because it implies fixed gender roles consistent with anatomy.) They see women becoming men as "running to male privilege.



That last one is an interesting point. And the prior one sounds similar to what I been thinkin', no?



skunkpit said:


> i think over pc'ness is a distraction from the big fuckin picture, its not just factory farming we gotta worry about, or little trivial social drama in a squat.. its fuckin using oil to ship your goddamn goji berries raped from the hemalian mountains to you while the tofu truck rushes to provide a vegan meal while slotering animals on the highways..
> instead of bickering about social ethics.. why not... use that energy to do something useful like, learn to skin, tan hides, process sinew, collect wild edibles, ask someone to teach you about wild plants in your area..



Here's a vegetarian saying: Amen!, I agree.
All the fuss about the "superfoods" and healthy-life-saver-miracle-fruit-of-the-day is Grade A *bullshit*. We ought to have what's in the bioregion we inhabit, and that's it.
Of course, I'll steal Goji berries and Venezuelan chocolate, as long as it's available in civilization... (hypocrite!)


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## bote

if you came and stayed at my house (and yes, squat's are "home" to some people, not just a trendier version of a youth hostel, for you and your friends to stay at while you're on tour) and got all bitchy because you were asked to respect the house rules, I would kick your ass out in a most un-pc fashion. 
And then you come back and ruin their shit by posting up right next door? And then, you whine that they were too pc? Maybe they were, but it sounds to me like they kicked you out 'cause you had no respect for their space. You think having a fridge, electricity, bikes at a squat is a bad thing? Try living on the streets for a few more years, then come back and tell me how much you love the glorious depression of shitting yourself in the cold and dark and sleeping on concrete floors. I've been called out many times for saying un-pc shit and everytime, I've felt like crap. But just because you feel bad doesn't mean you' re in the right. It's a challenge to get along with some people, but we learn something in the process- tolerance, humility, something like that... 
I'm glad I can get along with a wide variety of people, more than just drinking buddies, it means there's usually good food in the FRIDGE, a BIKE for me to borrow, and CHICKS that are worth hanging out with, rather than just some scumfuck kids with shithawks complaining about how hard-done-by they are.


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## bote

damn, I sound angry. i've calmed down now. I was just reading about the decline of the Power Machine in the east bay last night, good zine about exactly this sort of stuff.


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## finn

Well, it was already admitted that they were kicked out for differing viewpoints, not on failing to respect house rules or the lies on security culture, so it's not as if the PC kids were in the right here. Granted, it might not be mature to squat the house next door, but were the PC kids expecting a mature response to their passive-aggressive holier-that-thou elitism? Maybe both sides were being a bit stupid here, but apparently the houses were just temporary living areas for activisty stuff, so no harm done.


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## bote

i've met a lot of people who seem to think that if you act like you care about anything or don't get fucked up all the time, then you're not "punk", which is just another form of political correctness, and just as fucking annoying as any other nonsensical form of snobbery. but you're right, i have no idea what really happened here, and i shouldn't be so sensitive, that's some hippie shit. okay i'm going to get drunk now.


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## dirty_rotten_squatter

bote said:


> if you came and stayed at my house (and yes, squat's are "home" to some people, not just a trendier version of a youth hostel, for you and your friends to stay at while you're on tour) and got all bitchy because you were asked to respect the house rules, I would kick your ass out in a most un-pc fashion.
> And then you come back and ruin their shit by posting up right next door? And then, you whine that they were too pc? Maybe they were, but it sounds to me like they kicked you out 'cause you had no respect for their space. You think having a fridge, electricity, bikes at a squat is a bad thing? Try living on the streets for a few more years, then come back and tell me how much you love the glorious depression of shitting yourself in the cold and dark and sleeping on concrete floors. I've been called out many times for saying un-pc shit and everytime, I've felt like crap. But just because you feel bad doesn't mean you' re in the right. It's a challenge to get along with some people, but we learn something in the process- tolerance, humility, something like that...
> I'm glad I can get along with a wide variety of people, more than just drinking buddies, it means there's usually good food in the FRIDGE, a BIKE for me to borrow, and CHICKS that are worth hanging out with, rather than just some scumfuck kids with shithawks complaining about how hard-done-by they are.



Being homeless really has nothing to do with pc. If they were trying to keep their squat low key they really shouldnt have piled a bunch of bikes in front of an abandoned house and had candles right next to the window facing the street. squatting next door was stupid, yes but shit happens live and learn and deal with it thats what mama always said.


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## sharks77

bote said:


> i've met a lot of people who seem to think that if you act like you care about anything or don't get fucked up all the time, then you're not "punk", which is just another form of political correctness, and just as fucking annoying as any other nonsensical form of snobbery.



exactly.

i hate these fucking "punks" that look down their nose at you cause you don't dress the part, or something. i have no desire to shave my head or rip up all my clothes (not that there's anything wrong with it, i just don't want to do it myself) but all the time theres these punker-than-thou assholes that won't even talk to people who don't look punk enough. that's not punk. bondage pants and spikey mohawks don't make you punk... how about fucking accepting people regardless of their appearance or background or lifestyle? this elitism pisses me off so bad because these people think cause they sniff glue and dye their hair they're fucking changing something. they're not being non-conformist, they're just conforming to a different ideal. it's all the same bullshit but they're usually the biggest assholes about it. 
the fact that they can claim to have these ideals and talk about it till they're blue in the face, and yet refuse to actually live by any of them, is absolutely incredible to me. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH.

heh.
/rant.


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## wartomods

i prefer to stay away from categorizing. But often they do this because they become part of a scene, and although it becomes more difficult to blend in mainstream society they get the help and recognitions of others like them, but well each to is own and a person is a person


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## wokofshame

skunkpit said:


> iv been in similar situations involving roadkill and people "actively protesting" its processing within 100 meters of them.. its fuckin food.. the great suv gods killed that squirrel or raccoon or possum or deer or bear, and for some reason the great god only kills for sport...
> 
> hey i went to jail for exactly that!!! (alright i had a couple beers too but the "gopher" was the real reason)


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## drunken marauder

I think I just got way more stupid for reading this thread!!!!!!!!


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## seke

incrustwetrust said:


> i agree with a lot of the statements made here, but i definitley do not think its fair to cast these judgements on activists in general. there are good people out there putting in good work for things that need to be done that still remember to have fun too. and i dont think its unreasonable to request someone not use a certain type of language, but getting confrontational about it if the person is not actually a bigot is counterproductive. i have seen many punks become allienated from activist groups for not being pc enough, but ive also seen people become really allienated from friends who couldnt stop saying gay as a perjurotive term or something. its a balance. building a movement means being open to everyones needs, even when there in conflict i guess.



I agree so much with you. I was called out by a friend for saying "that's gay." I was a bit offended at first, but after I thought about what making that statement ACTUALLY meant I quit using it immediately. I also try to use language towards women that doesn't imply I'm just another guy interested in what theya re capable of sexually. As far as transgender things go, I call him/her what they are, unless it is requested I call them by what they feel like, then I respect those wishes. IT all depends on what is comfortable to people. Fighting for equality cant be two faced. Just respect other wishes like you'd like them to respect yours.


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## dirty_rotten_squatter

Well, I'm not gona go out of my way to bite my tongue around people I meet or change the way I speak. If I offend someone, they should tell me and I won't around them.


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## seke

And I feel sort of the same, but I don't say "that's gay" anymore just because I think it's not cool to say.


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## treatment

I kinda stopped reading posts halfway down the page but this is where I stand--
I could prolly be considered a pretty pc kid, don't use the word fag, don't call girls bitches, whatever. I usually don't bitch people out about that kinda stuff though. Where I draw the line is when people are being blatantly homophobic, racist, etc. Start bashing on gay people, and i'll go off. Same with racist comments, misogyny, things along those lines. Call a girl a chick, and I couldn't really care less. Unless SHE tells you herself that she'd rather not be referred to as a chick, it's not my business what you refer to females as. Even if I don't agree with it, I know it's about embracing differences, and looking at how we're all similar instead of focusing on what we don't like about other people. Solidarity means we're all coming from different places, going to different places, but working to achieve similar ends, and to me it's all about freedom.


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## Uncle Mom

everything's so serious i don't know what to do. it's irritating to me to feel like i have to walk on egg-shells hanging out with someone. Relax.


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## Nelco

Uncle Mom said:


> everything's so serious i don't know what to do. it's irritating to me to feel like i have to walk on egg-shells hanging out with someone. Relax.


Just exist..don't let other people have power over you and they loose their power and the pressure relieves itself.
I'm not racist and nigger is one of my favorite words. 
It's hard to be racist around someone like me and it's more powerful than being pc could ever be and more honest...you get me?


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## Nelco

PC kids are weak people and need systematic structures to verbally express themselves..don't let their weak nature alter you.


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