# A thread inquiring about gender and validity of representation.



## creature (Mar 8, 2015)

I am exceedingly curious..

from a strictly classical/typical/transgender with question mark/whatever/heterosexual perspective, do we presume our gender to allow us to present facts or experiences with an *intentional* bias for which we *cannot* be held accountable for, simply *because* of our gender?


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## Odin (Mar 8, 2015)

I'm a man... I can say that it is a fact that I think pissing standing up is the bees knees and I would not have it any other way. (basically I am happy to have a wee wee... ::woot:

Now is that purely because I have the XY gonosomes...? or does my nature/nuture upbringing also take part. 
I was a little troublemaker as a tyke... ran around whooping and hollering, caught garter snakes by the railroad tracks... (lol... funny... that memory just came back... and I never got to hopping trains... hmmm... now I have a childhood memory to inspire)... 

Scrapes and snots... pooping in the woods and having rock fights in alleys after flooding the brick paved garden with all the weeds and bugs and pointing and laughing at and telling girls they got cooties while all the time secretly fascinated by they're mystery...

I was a boy... and now I'm a man... har har... at least thats what I tell the ladies. (though they all just say tsk tsk... behave yourself boy... ::angelic:

See As a kid. I had to hop around and rage against authority... and be gross and look for excitement. 
But there is also the inner world we all have. I must say mine was full of conflict, emotions and what amounts in my guy mind to sensitivity. 

@creature I'm not sure what your asking. But as far as what we can be accountable for based on our physical gender and the gender we identify with? 

It probably varies through time... as we grow and learn and change. First is our physical nature as we are young and that is modified by experience and our inner natures that develops and creates what we ourselves see our selves as. genders: ... male, female, LGBT..., 

As a boy... I may have been somewhat of a troublemaker through my physical nature of wanting to have fun and play like a boy...That part of my nature might be accountable for laughing at a girl down the street... or pulling her hair and calling her names... 

Yet through my inner nature of being emotional and at times confused and lonely in a scary world. I would also be accountable when I was instead playing peacefully with a fellow girl. Playing house on the porch... divesting of myself my inner nature... or introspection and thought... mind and sought after little understood attention. Instead of wild instinct. 

If you are just asking what can we be held accountable for in our biased views. I suppose that depends on when in time and how understanding and mindful and educated you are. 
Also the opportunities to be educated through the people and culture you are exposed to. 
At some point in life though. Sometimes people raised in a bad environment can choose to have an open mind. To choose a nature of understanding and kindness. 

So perhaps we are all accountable to lesser and greater degrees throughout time with different plateau's of development. 

Also how a person sees themselves is probably a very complex process indeed. 

Just in terms of categorizing our identity in culture there are so many variables.
class division: ... blue collar, intellectual... crusty... eclectic... weird... cool... /style and crowd.... punk, geek, jock, barfly, philosopher, stoner... ... ::cigar::
Religion, abrahamic, eastern, agnostic, athiest, pagan, Jedi... :ldman::

Heck people divide and identify in millions of ways.

I guess what we must be ultimately held accountable to is the bias's we develop out of malice and hate. 
Ignorance and misunderstanding... otherwise... might be transformed with education patience and kindness.
And possibly even malice and hate can be purged with the right bright guiding light.::cat::

And sometimes kittens...


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## creature (Mar 8, 2015)

Odin, 
Thank you.

In all of the posts I have ever made or seem made in the past 23 years..
yes, 1992, at least, 
this is probably the single most introspective & relevant response that i have seen..

gonna take a bit to reply, but i think you got to the very core of the basic mechanics i am inquiring into..

just wanted to shoot that out, in case my thoughts are a bit slower to follow..

i think you really got to the root..


thanks!

C


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## Odin (Mar 8, 2015)

Well glad it made some sense and was relevant. 

I will add just a bit more... though I am not sure I am driftin slightly from the true aim of your thread. >>>

(the development of self identy and the preference/bias integrated into such an identy and how we use those aspects of ourselves to interact with others... )

I've jst been very exhausted of late but you asked and I thought on how much I have changed myself over the years.
My own gender and sexual identity remain constant yet my perspective on life and other people... grows every day.
Not understanding why a person prefers a certain gender/sexual identity or lifestyle or choice.. if it be just not getting what a womans about with her womanly stuff... or not knowing why a man might like to spend some nights dressing up in highheels. (I like steel toe combat boots myself... partily cuz they have heels...heh)... Is no place for me to place judgement or discrimination. My own bias view of what I want in life are to be put on the shelf with anyone I meet in life and what my personal experiences have made me... are not to be applied to others or used to create hate or malice towards someone different whom I know or understand nothing about. Any bias I have is a product of my unique personal internal and external life and cannot be used as a method of measure against anyone else. 

Every new person is a new universe that I must learn about objectivly... 

And that is the best moral approach I can take to juggling my life perspective to appling an intelligent approach to dealling with individuals I may not have any previous commonalities or understanding or friendship with. 

I would also like to mention that my own philisophical musings and agnostic thoughts may have in the last... decade or more...? yea... helped to develop this open apporoach to people. I don't believe I have ever found myself discriminatiory of anyone. But as a teenager I was a bit wraped up in a little world I knew nothing off on the outside. Then again I was a teenager... and Traveling and the military deff helped change that.


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## creature (Mar 9, 2015)

Odin, thanks again..

yer replies def nail the essential elements i've been brooding over..
i've been trying to ascertain if there is some sort of baseline that can referred to, rather than digressing into assertions like "well.. try & see it from my (i.e. male/female) point of view"..

i think what i am asking is if the assertion that "subjective, gender based perceptual differences result in valid, yet differing objective conclusions"..
ala' Dylan; "We didn't necessarily disagree, we just saw it from a different point of view.... tangled up in blues.." 

i've been looking at things in the past.. 

- the alcoholic kid at the farm who OD'd & took his girlfriend's self-worth with him..
- the two folks i introduced to each other who wound up having a kid & then splitting up, with bad, bad craziness on both sides..
- a good friend who hung himself & the incredibly destructive, acrid relationship he maintained which he & his gf both fed off of until his death..
- people who tolerate fucking bed-turds for partners, & whom *refuse* to see the fucking heartbreak & catastrophe that is heading their way, even when the problems have moved way, way, way beyond the warning sign stages..

in every case there were excuses given or made, based upon gender.. & what really nails it down as being completely subjective is that people who make excuses for other people based upon gender will use the *same* excuses across gender..

anyways.. just digressing, i guess..

i've just seen a few times where people will make excuses for other people, of for themselves, that they try & reduce to a defacto state of exitence, rather than take accountability.. 

now, baring people who just out & out fucking lie (on both sides of the fence) i've just never seen that gender difference *itself* should make any difference in relation to personal responsibility.. or even that much to the process of objective perception... just seems that that sort of assertion is a cop out, and has a lot of shitty consequences..

i'm not saying there are *not* perceptual differences, by any means..

i've just been wondering if those differences actually result in different objective perceptual frames, and how different those gender based references are from each other..
i just don't see the justification for them being so great as to really be valid for *any* kind of absolution..

i just tend to see fucked up as fucked up..

but even *that* has kind of been levied against me as "a guy thing" (which is kind of funny, really..)

anyways..

thanks for answering..

J


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