# Insurance for a 17 person passenger bus (short bus)



## moopy

I'm looking into buying this shortbus from a church and I realized that I have no idea what the insurance is like on these things. Can anyone gimmie a clue as to what to expect to pay? I'll give you some details:

- 1992 Ford E350 with 113k miles on it. Automatic transmission, takes unleaded fuel.
- I'm 26 years old with no disabilities and no past auto debts/problems.

I plan on living in this bus with minimal driving usage. Estimating 1000-1500 miles a year, maybe.


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## Kim Chee

I can't tell you what to expect to pay, but I understand that insurance companies tend to charge you less when you remove many of the seats (basically rendering it unfit for mass transit in the other world). 

I once got an absolutely great price on insurance when I was referred to a policy holder's agent.

Another time, I walked in and got a kickass rate.

I think the "walk in" approach could be time consuming, but might be useful in some instances. 

My take on insurance: if you can't afford to be in an accident, don't drive.

(I'm not a huge fan of insurance, I'm a huge fan of quickly removing licenses from those who demontrate an inability to drive safely.)


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## psychofoamer

www.progressive.co

I bet Flo knows


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## seeking existence

looks like you aren't planning to really use this vehicle much at all. you can try metromile, they charge per mile, and since you're planning to only drive like under ,000 miles a year, this might be cost effective for you. just say you are driving a standard e-350. that might be the only selection they have on their website. if you have insurance for another primary car, you might be able to also add the van as a supplementary vehicle


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## creature

Never heard of Metromile.. sounds like a pretty damn good idea..

Moopy, if you want the best rate, change the title to RV.
I don't know about NC, but in florida you essentially sign an affidavit that you have done the conversion, & then file for a new title with the change.

see what's involved in NC.. some states are real pricks about it.

GMAC insurance was the only one that took my schoolie.. i think they're national general, now..
they were reasonable, but service was just eh..

They called National General insurance, now..

there are a lot of schoolie sites out there, too..

i'm gonna hit up metro mile..


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## Matt Derrick

so, back in 2010 i bought a 1995 Ford Carpenter 66 passenger school bus for $1,800 on ebay. it was a wonderful machine that didn't give me any problems over the two years i had it.

getting insurance for it was a bitch, because i didn't know what i was doing. i'll save you some of that hassle.

first off, like creature said, register the vehicle as a 'Recreational Vehicle' (RV). You MUST do this, otherwise it's going to be incredibly difficult to insure the vehicle. if you have to take it to the DMV just explain to them that it's a bus conversion and you're turning it into a motor home / RV. they won't care as long as you pay the fees to register the vehicle.

now, also like creature said, GMAC is one of the few insurance companies that insure bus conversions. the fucked up part is that depending on the customer service person you get, they will either confirm or deny this. if they tell you they don't just hang up and call again until you get an agent that says they will insure a bus conversion.

i actually didn't have much luck with GMAC at first, but i got lucky and found a company called poliseek, which is a 'reseller' for GMAC. see in the grand scam of things in the insurance world, almost all insurance companies are owned by a handful of corporations. they give some of these insurance companies different names to give the 'illusion' of choice/competition but if you've never heard of the insurance company they're probably just a reseller for one of the big companies.

moving on. the agent at poliseek agreed to insure my vehicle through GMAC as long as all the seats were removed. now, at the time i was still in the process of removing the seats, but i just lied and said they were gone. they just want to know that you're not going to go around running an uninsured party bus, or transport people around commercially, since that requires a whole other load of insurance policies.

they might also ask you some questions about whether you're going to install a toilet/shower/stove, since those are things insurance companies worry about (like you blowing your vehicle up). i don't remember the specific questions about this, or my answers, but i just basically said i wasn't planning on installing that stuff and just using it for hunting excursions or something like that.

when it was all said and done, i ended up paying about $250 every six months for insurance.



Leadbellytherxrcur said:


> www.progressive.co
> 
> I bet Flo knows



DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT go through progressive. they're fucking morons. before i went through the above, i got my insurance online through them, which was quick and painless, but then in my second month they cancelled my insurance, telling me they don't insure 'bus conversions' (even though i clearly stated it was a conversion, i was totally upfront about it). worse is that they fucked up the payment refund, so they sent me a check for the money i'd already paid (a year's worth of insurance in advance) that took TWO MONTHS to arrive. so yeah, fuck that company.

i've actually written on this subject before, i'd advise checking out the vandwelling section and searching for any posts ive made there.

also, i learned alot about school bus conversion insurance from skoolie.net which is a great forum for school bus conversion enthusiasts.


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## Matt Derrick

oh yeah, and DO NOT tell them you're living in it. say as little as possible unless asked directly, then lie. also, turn down EVERY possible addon they try to sell you on (full coverage, bodily harm, etc) EXCEPT the base coverage required by law. otherwise you'll pay out the nose.


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## Kim Chee

seeking existence said:


> looks like you aren't planning to really use this vehicle much at all. you can try metromile, they charge per mile, and since you're planning to only drive like under ,000 miles a year, this might be cost effective for you. just say you are driving a standard e-350. that might be the only selection they have on their website. if you have insurance for another primary car, you might be able to also add the van as a supplementary vehicle



Good info.


Fyi: I've seen odometers run backwards.


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## creature

schoolie.net

right!! def a great site!

def don't say too much.. answer only what you are asked..
however, they will most likely ask you how much you drive it, at which you can say "just a few hundred miles a year, if that.. most of the time it's parked" ...figure you tell them about 50% than the furthest you might expect to be at any given moment, if you want to be on the safest side..
yer in NC, you head to cali, but do a 13,000 mile circumnavigation.. even if you wind up in NW washington, & you tell them "not more than about 2,000 miles", yer still in the "about" realm..

if you don't plan on any major drives for the first few months, say "a few hundred miles" (which is probably true for this year, no?) get the policy established, pay a couple of times & make changes later.

i would def advise trying to find out the max number of miles you can afford.. the difference really isn't that big..
also, following along the line matt mentioned, do *not* tell them you will be living in the vehicle..
things get touchy that way, especially with schoolies..

another item them may touch on is "how many months out of the year do you use it?", in which case tell them "maybe a total of 3 or 4 weeks"..

also, do not say it's usually 'in storage'.. just tell them it's usually parked.. to start with, this will most likely be true.. otherwise they'll press you as to whether or not you want a special 'storage' rate..

after you get the policy, you might be able to make some changes online, and i as i said, i would def see what difference the miles you tell them it is used for makes..

these are just things i recall.. def use schoolie.net & some of the other sites/groups you can find..

other folks may have distinctly different advice, so listen to it all..

good luck!!


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## creature

just re-read the original post..

yah.. if 1500 is all yer thinking of driving it?
hell.. get the policy, straight up with the miles..

once yer situated, you can actually think about the 'storage' option..

that simply puts the policy into 'hibernation', & covers against damage while in storage.
won't be legal to drive, but *if* what i was told is correct, you just make a call to reactivate the driving policy..
i dun think you can do it very often.. (maybe twice a year?), and if the $250 or so isn't that big of a hit, i wouldn't worry about it.. if money is, tight, though.. could be an option.. as matt said.. DO NOT let them know you are living in it.. 

next time my policy runs around, i'm gonna checkout metromile.. sounds interesting..


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## moopy

Matt Derrick said:


> first off, like creature said, register the vehicle as a 'Recreational Vehicle' (RV). You MUST do this, otherwise it's going to be incredibly difficult to insure the vehicle. if you have to take it to the DMV just explain to them that it's a bus conversion and you're turning it into a motor home / RV. they won't care as long as you pay the fees to register the vehicle.
> 
> now, also like creature said, GMAC is one of the few insurance companies that insure bus conversions. the fucked up part is that depending on the customer service person you get, they will either confirm or deny this. if they tell you they don't just hang up and call again until you get an agent that says they will insure a bus conversion.
> 
> moving on. the agent at poliseek agreed to insure my vehicle through GMAC as long as all the seats were removed. now, at the time i was still in the process of removing the seats, but i just lied and said they were gone. they just want to know that you're not going to go around running an uninsured party bus, or transport people around commercially, since that requires a whole other load of insurance policies.
> 
> they might also ask you some questions about whether you're going to install a toilet/shower/stove, since those are things insurance companies worry about (like you blowing your vehicle up). i don't remember the specific questions about this, or my answers, but i just basically said i wasn't planning on installing that stuff and just using it for hunting excursions or something like that.
> 
> when it was all said and done, i ended up paying about $250 every six months for insurance.



Ah, I called GMAC earlier this morning only twice and got two rejections. Both denied running it as an RV until I had met their specifications for RV, which included installing permanent fixtures and even running water according to one of the agents I talked to. So what about registering it as a truck instead? I saw that some folks on other forums did this for their bus conversions through GMAC and they got $280 total over 6-months, similar to what you were paying. Here's a cool thing I found out about my state law:

*South Carolina Code of Laws - Title 56 - Section 56-3-20. Definitions:*
(10) "Truck" means every motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(12) "Bus" means every motor vehicle designed for carrying more than ten passengers and used for the transportation of persons and every motor vehicle, other than a taxicab, designed and used for the transportation of persons for compensation.

Since I'll be taking all of the seats out of my bus it won't be designed or used for the transportation of more than ten passengers, essentially allowing it to fit perfectly under the legal definition of a truck instead, which isn't a lie - I will only be transporting property in this vehicle. As I mentioned above, GMAC agents were telling me that I'll need meet certain specifications involving permanent fixtures and running water to register it as an RV and provide picture proof that these are met before they can do it, so what do you think? Think I could swing it as a truck instead?


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## Matt Derrick

registering it as an RV tells insurance companies that you won't be driving it much, which in turn equals cheaper insurance. registering it as a truck does not include that benefit. just register it as an RV.


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## Matt Derrick

also, an RV has the added benefit of falling under the same search and seizure laws as a house. meaning the cops need a warrant to search (or even look in the windows, if the windows are covered with curtains) anywhere behind the two (or one in a bus) front seats of the vehicle, which has saved a friend or two in certain situations.


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## moopy

Matt Derrick said:


> registering it as an RV tells insurance companies that you won't be driving it much, which in turn equals cheaper insurance. registering it as a truck does not include that benefit. just register it as an RV.



I'll give it a shot. I have a great story for the truck registration prepared that should do the trick if they insist that I do a whole bunch of installation shit that I don't want to do in order to get it registered as an RV.



Matt Derrick said:


> also, an RV has the added benefit of falling under the same search and seizure laws as a house. meaning the cops need a warrant to search (or even look in the windows, if the windows are covered with curtains) anywhere behind the two (or one in a bus) front seats of the vehicle, which has saved a friend or two in certain situations.



Now THAT'S good to know. I was worried about the po.


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## Matt Derrick

moopy said:


> I'll give it a shot. I have a great story for the truck registration prepared that should do the trick if they insist that I do a whole bunch of installation shit that I don't want to do in order to get it registered as an RV.



just register it as an RV. seriously. registering it as a truck is just dumb on a lot of levels.

but hey, do what you want.


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## creature

a lot of good info..
the truck thing could def be usefull as a last ditch..

*change the title first*.. then the ins. co has nothing to say about whether or not it *is* an RV..

i don't see anything clear, as of yet, on how to go about registering a 'converted' rv..

i'd recommend going to a couple of out of town DMVs, asking what the laws are.. get a good picture, then come back to your local..


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## Mongo

I have mine insured by state farm. Since it's an e350 you can register it as an automobile since the chassis is is the info they usually go on. I wanted to register mine as rv but they don't do conversions in CA at the dmv.


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## Mongo

Also i pay $30 dollars a month for my insurance.


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## bystander

7xMichael said:


> My take on insurance: if you can't afford to be in an accident, don't drive.



I write estimates for a toyota body shop and I can tell you this ideology will get you in some pretty expensive situations. Better to have said, "if you can't afford to be in an accident, don't drive without insurance."

We have a 2015 Toyota Prius in at our shop right now. The lady bought it ten days prior to the accident and only accumulated 255 miles on the poor thing. She pulled out in traffic. She paid cash for the car (death in the family got some money to spend) and had "forgotten" to get insurance....... 12k (yes 12 THOUSAND dollars) to fix her vehicle, and who knows about the car she hit.

Car wrecks can and will run into the tens old thousands. really fast. Don't cheap out on insurance. You may drive a $1500 corolla but that brand new Range Rover you pulled out in-front of cost 80k. Your insurance only covers up to 25k in property damage. Who pays the rest? Or 


personal injuries policy... so what happens to your friends in the car? better hope their health insurance will cover or guess what. Friends gotta pay bills too, and who do you thinks gunna pay?

Insurance is scary stuff for "what ifs" and hopefully you never need it. But you sure as hell be happy you've got it when shit blows the fuck up.


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## Raven1998

First off I didn't read any of the previous posts or much more then the title to the thread.

But any whoooo

I insured a ford e350 short bus that wasn't even registered or legally in the country( improperly imported from Canada) through geico for over a year by just telling them it was a e350 ford Van. Never mentioned the bus part. Minimum coverage I tell them I rarely drive it(lol) no problemo. 40 a month. @moopy 

That said now I have a Thomas bus 38 passenger in my name and I had to go through General Insurance( that's what he company is called.) they have a special category for bus conversions and as far as I know it's the only u.s. Company that does. Your bus has to be registered as an Rv and you have to have decent driving history. I was denied ( a bit too many fender benders) so my gal had to put the insurance in her name. 40 a month minimum coverage

My bus is registered and considered an RV by the state o California. @Mongo


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