# dig on some clawhammer banjo!



## absurdtoast

Old Man Luedecke...some of the best clawhammer banjo I've heard.
If ya like banjo or music....give it a listen!


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## nellie g

dude, you realy need to get south of the canadian boarder if you want to hear, good banjo pickin. better yet south of the mason-dixon line. try some fred cockerham , kyle creed, kirk sutphin or even mark olitzky if you wana hear some good banjo from the "cheezy" north. hope you find some good o.t. banjo music before you fall into the trap of cheezzzzzyyy northern crap. these guys should get you started


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## Deleted member 20

I dont know guys. Too each his own but when I think banjo I automatically think 4 string irish tenor(cdae/gdae). My musical influences are the Dropkick Murphys, Flogging Molly, Pogues & prior to that trad irish/celtic music. There is actually some great Irish banjo players on the east coast of Canada, unsure if most 5 string guys can compete with the southeners though.


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## nellie g

These are different instruments, like the fiddle and the violin . But all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when it's just some Yankee with a ________ trying to sound Authentic.


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## absurdtoast

haha I'm sure if you are jokin or just stupid. I love banjo music...I was just sharing some good banjo music....in particular clawhammer stuff....had no idea being from Canada impacted how well you play the banjo. Also...do people actually say "cheezy north" ahahah

As for good banjo....Roscoe Holcomb, Clarence Tom Ashley, Chubby Parker n his old time banjo, Dock Boggs, Memphis Jug Band, Cannon Jug Stompers, Charlie Poole, Earl Scruggs (RIP), Pete MOTHERFUCKIN Seeger (FROM NEW YORK OF ALL PLACES) yet one of the best banjo players, Doc Watson, Hobart Smith, Jack Kelly and His South Memphis Jug Band, Mississippi Sheiks, The Skillet Lickers...etc etc....don't you worry, I know my way around, as you put it, "AUTHENTIC", old time music. You want real old time check out the anthology of American folk music.

I think we have an Old time music thread just for that...you can check it out......I merely posted this thread to show some newer clawhammer banjo...that is quite enjoyable...that GOD FORBID come from somewhere other than the south (even though I had no idea he was Canadian before I posted this)...I'm not sure if I ever claimed this to be authentic old time music.

Anyway...bullshit elitist arguments about what is truly authentic and what isn't....is seriously fuckin lame. YOU AIN'T A TRUE BANJER PLAYER UNLESS UR BLACK! you just look like a bunch of white boys mimicking jug band music with your minstrel shows. see....that ol southern old timey music ain't real authentic as the banjo was integrated into "white" culture through minstrel shows and blackface, where whites attempted to mimic the styles and songs of blacks. I'm not sure we wanna get into some kind of discussion about authentic and inauthentic clawhammer banjo playin.

Anyway....but all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when its just some white boy with a banjer tryin to mimic tradition African musical styles (jug band music, blues, jazz, etc.).


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## Deleted member 20




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## nellie g

Wow , somebody's a little sensative about a little friendly critque. If you like Pete m.f.'n Seeger or old man honkie , that's fine. I just can't hear Any honesty in there music. Just My opinion dude . I got nothin to prove to you, I sure as hell wouldn't get my cargo pants in a bunch over your musical opinion.


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## absurdtoast

sorry if I came across a little sensitive (I'd say Im a bit passionate about this kind of music)...you came across as a bit of an elitist asshole...this is part of the problem with internet forums vs. real life...I'm sure we'd have a swell conversation in real life.

No hard feelings. I got no problem if ya don't like the music...not gonna make you admit its good or whatever, that's your opinion.

Ethnomusicology fascinates me and so does the history and transformation of Appalachian music, old time, old blues, jazz, ragtime, banjo, jug bands...I find it all interesting. I think with a little research you might find that your criticism...that its somehow not authentic...or honest (???) is misguided....just historically speaking. Actually to be honest...I have no idea what your criticism even is.

I won't loss any sleep over it, but I'm always up for a friendly discussion...you seem to have not made any valid point besides "its not authentic cause it ain't from the South, damn yankees..or I know what sounds honest and what doesn't and this doesn't sound honest?" but if ya wish to continue...I'm up for it. Seems like we both like similar music anyway.


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## venusinpisces

absurdtoast said:


> haha I'm sure if you are jokin or just stupid.
> Anyway....but all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when its just some white boy with a banjer tryin to mimic tradition African musical styles (jug band music, blues, jazz, etc.).


No, actually he is an extremely talented player who is being more modest than you realize. I heard him play one time at a party in Asheville and, from what my untrained ears could tell, he could be a professional musician if inclined to do so. As for your point that old time banjo is strictly African in origins, that statement is very obviously only an incomplete history since there are many similarities between old time and traditional Irish/European music, as Highwayman pointed out above.

Regarding Northern "old time" music, I can tell an immediate difference between the videos you posted and the artists that Nellie mentioned. It's fine if you like it but that stuff isn't authentic. It kind of reminds me of the whole "alt country" thing, which is like nails on a chalkboard to me since I prefer the traditional country I grew up with. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to be a music snob but there is something to be said for upholding tradition, as long as that tradition is worthwhile. Earl Scruggs is great though.


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## absurdtoast

That was a joke..about the "strictly" African origins.
I'm sure this guy rules...no slight against his musical capabilities.

For the record...I never claimed this music to be authentic old time music...so I don't even get where that's coming from. I think it was him who came here saying, well this stuff is northern crap and ain't authentic!!!! nobody is arguing that it is authentic.

I was merely pointing out that any argument that begins with "This ain't authentic!!!!! or traditional!!!!" is just silly....just from looking at it from a historical sense. As you can just take it back a step further..."oh yea well that ain't real old time music...I only listen jug band plantation music...that's the TRUE authentic jug band music. If its not played by slaves well then it ain't jug band music" see...that's just silly.
It's like saying the only TRUE banjo players are in West Africa...that's just stupid.

I'm all up for this discussion but you have your own definition of what authentic and traditional is...and that's not how music works or develops. Taking the banjo (African instrument) and making it appeal to white audiences through minstrel shows and blackface, and applying old English ballads is anything but "traditional"...I'm sure at the time there were people like you saying NO NO what are you doing!!! this isn't traditional European musical styles!!!!!

ragtime is traditional...those hot jazz players aren't authentic....no no these white jazz players aren't traditional....they are ruining the authentic hot jazz music....its just a silly way to view music...close minded and so far removed from the reality of musical developments.

Just enjoy good music?


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## venusinpisces

absurdtoast said:


> For the record...I never claimed this music to be authentic old time music...so I don't even get where that's coming from. I think it was him who came here saying, well this stuff is northern crap and ain't authentic!!!! nobody is arguing that it is authentic.


Actually, that is exactly what you claimed in post #8. Allow me to quote it for you: "I think with a little research you might find that your criticism...that its somehow not authentic...or honest (???) is misguided....just historically speaking." 

And personally, I don't mind if people combine contemporary styles with traditional music, as long as it's tastefully done in a way that honors tradition. But unfortunately, a lot of country or old time music made by Northerners simply cannot be described that way.


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## absurdtoast

hahhah you took the quote out of context. I never once claimed this guy represents Old time music....I didn't come here parading this as authentic old time music. That quote I was referring to musical development, if you research ethnomusicology you realize that the lines between what is authentic and inauthentic are blurred. Look at how these genres develop..there is nothing..nothing at all traditional about them....so with a little research you will find your traditionalist view doesn't hold up against the historical facts of how the genres were formed.

Again..there is even a thread specifically just on old time music....this isn't it.


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## joaquim33

venusinpisces said:


> No, actually he is an extremely talented player who is being more modest than you realize. I heard him play one time at a party in Asheville and, from what my untrained ears could tell, he could be a professional musician if inclined to do so. As for your point that old time banjo is strictly African in origins, that statement is very obviously only an incomplete history since there are many similarities between old time and traditional Irish/European music, as Highwayman pointed out above.
> 
> Regarding Northern "old time" music, I can tell an immediate difference between the videos you posted and the artists that Nellie mentioned. It's fine if you like it but that stuff isn't authentic. It kind of reminds me of the whole "alt country" thing, which is like nails on a chalkboard to me since I prefer the traditional country I grew up with. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to be a music snob but there is something to be said for upholding tradition, as long as that tradition is worthwhile. Earl Scruggs is great though.


 

how do you define authentic? that is an hard word to pin down sometimes.





this guy frank is my new favorite musician. he grew up in central valley CA.


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## joaquim33

vermont massachusetts old time!


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## venusinpisces

I don't know enough about the genre to be coming up with a definition. All I know is that your average hippie bluegrass/old time is *not* the real thing and it's easy to tell the difference. Frank Fairfield is pretty impressive. I would definitely trust someone from the Central Valley to do it better than someone from NYC! Ultimately, it's not really about what area you're from as much as whether you can carry on the spirit, since most modern country from the South is also pretty bad (except the Dixie Chicks).


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## absurdtoast

damn that rules!!! and ya, totally agree...old time music from New England is very different than deep south old time music...I don't think anyone was arguing that. It's easy to throw around exclusive words like "authentic", "traditional" ,"spirit","honesty"....but not so easy nailing down exactly what you mean, especially if you learn how these genres were formed. Anyway...I'm not endorsing modern country or as you put it hippie bluegrass/old time and trying to pass it off as the "real" thing. So...we are in agreement.

I think that was exactly my point...don't matter where you are from. I'm all for keeping with the spirit...but also for understanding the actual history of the music.

Sleepy Man Banjo Boys...from....New Jersey of all places.....


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## Deleted member 20

Those kids are awesome. I do believe thats a Deering goodtime.


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## joaquim33

haha the kid reaches up and quickly tunes while he plays. i dont really like this style of banjo playing but still, that is slick. theres a cool documentary called "new england fiddle" you can watch at http://www.folkstreams.net/film,93
made me feel different about playing this genre of music and being a notherner..i guess i realized i dont have to try and copy anyone from the south, there is a longstanding tradition of this music from the north and everywhere for that matter.
frank fairfield pointed out in an interview that most fiddle players recorded in the 20s on 78 rpms where actually from the midwest


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## venusinpisces

joaquim33 said:


> there is a longstanding tradition of this music from the north and everywhere for that matter.
> frank fairfield pointed out in an interview that most fiddle players recorded in the 20s on 78 rpms where actually from the midwest


It seems like what makes the difference is whether or not people are integrated in rural culture, or at least have recent ties to it. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and sometimes an outsider can step in and capture a sound. But just like a rich white guy sounds funny rapping about thug life in the projects there is something a bit off about hippies playing watered down bluegrass. I'm probably just a snob though.  Just about all the musicians in this thread have talent, whether or not it's my style of music. Here is some Earl Scruggs:


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## absurdtoast

I regret missing Earl Scruggs playing last summer at the Newport Folk Festival...I don't play the Scruggs style but easily one of my favorite musicians...RIP Earl!


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## joaquim33

venusinpisces said:


> It seems like what makes the difference is whether or not people are integrated in rural culture, or at least have recent ties to it.


whats interesting is that until the 30s there was hardly anyone who didnt have recent ties to rural culture. in the world.


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## venusinpisces

Yeah, and unfortunately people sometimes have a tendency to forget their roots rather quickly. That's part of the appeal of old time music, since it's one of the few remaining links to early American culture, outside of museums and written history.


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## absurdtoast

what's even more interesting is the use of the example of rich white people rapping trying to act like a thug from the streets...HUGE level of inauthenticy....well rich white plantation owners would have jug bands made up of slaves to play music and entertain guests. The rise of minstrel shows saw...whites....literally mimicking blacks and black music....right down to putting on blackface. The African slaves were using unique instruments and creating sounds that attempted to recreate a very different musical style that differed from European styles but that they found aesthetically pleasing.

Medicine shows and traveling minstrel shows were made up of whites dressing in black face, using black instruments (banjo, washboard, washtub bass etc), mimicking black slang, and singing about primarily black topics...black stereotypes, slave hardships, the blues etc.......a lot of the famous old time performers actually got their start doing medicine shows and singing in blackface...and so this attempt to mimic black music and appeal to a greater white audience....was vital in the formation of "traditional" old time music

So when someone puts forth the argument of authentic old time music....it just doesn't make sense from a historical basis...you can say that's your opinion but in reality you are just disregarding and ignoring the actual history of the music. *The genre was born from a huge level of in-authenticity (whites copying black styles) and mixing of different styles (Celtic, European, English Ballads) . *People don't seem to realize just how important jug band music was to the formation of old time/folk and even the blues.


Also....you can't sing an old timey song about the hardships of coal mining authentically, or with passion, or...spirit.....without having worked in a coal mine yourself or having family that once worked in a coal mine.......(Earl Scruggs plays coal miners blues and yet never was a coal miner.....sooooo inauthentic!!!!) that's a silly argument...you can't sing the blues with spirit if you are white, you can't sing old time music with spirit if you don't come from a rural background...or have family that has come from a rural background??? I mean...its your opinion, you can truly believe that if you want...but its just a close-minded, hipster snob/elitist type mentality that is so divorced from what music is suppose to mean and from how the actual genres were created. Lots and lots of old time performers sung about the hardships of sharecropping/farm work and yet weren't farmers themselves...some were wealthy, some weren't.

sorry for these long posts.


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## venusinpisces

I'm not discounting that racism played a part in early American cultures, even particularly with old time music. Of course it did, because slavery was intrinsic to every institution in colonial America. There is the danger in romanticizing that era that people will gloss over the prevalence of racism as well as the history of poorhouses and indentured servitude which were, for all intents and purposes, nearly identical to slavery in terms of the hardships endured by your average servant, who was overwhelmingly of Irish origins. As for singing about specific circumstances that a person hasn't lived through, that has always been a part of any story-telling culture. 

Here is a clip of a program on an old-time festival in rural Virginia which provides college scholarships to local Appalachians. The thing a lot of people don't realize is that U.S. has always been a multi-tiered society, and many descendants of Irish immigrants never had anything close to the same privileges as the primarily Anglo-Saxon upper classes. Even today, there is the possibility of old time culture dying out because many of the people who kept these traditions alive are hardly being handed recording contracts. Anyways, here is some info about the clip from Youtube:

"American bluegrass music originated with immigrants from Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales beginning in the early 1600s. Those early settlers made their homes in the Appalachian Mountains in what's now eastern United States, and through their music told stories about their struggles and daily life. Americans living today in a section of the Appalachian Mountains known as the Blue Ridge Mountains continue that musical heritage."


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## venusinpisces

oops


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## absurdtoast

great post...I fully agree...that's my point. Bluegrass developed in accordance with all these different styles mixed together. African musical traditions...jug bands, instruments and the styling of songs were mimicked by whites....the mixing of other European styles creates in turn created this very unique genre.
Blacks at the time infused elements of blues which was vital in shaping bluegrass as a genre along with introducing the banjo. The first whites to play banjo were mimicking the styles and songs of the black slaves they watched.

You are totally right about hardships people faced...it wasn't very easy being a poor white either. Sharecropping exploited everyone, regardless of race...along with the various hardships of immigrants.

For me I view old time music as working class music. The struggles of living in Appachia, working coal mines, sharecropping, poverty, dust bowls, heading west, disease, starvation, slavery...etc etc.....are all interwined with old time music.

The best part is just how uniquely American it is.

This PBS special on the banjo is amazing..must watch


A great link on the history.
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/appalach.htm
"*ONE of the greatest influences* on Appalachian music, as well as many popular American music styles, was that of the African-American. The slaves brought a distinct tradition of group singing of community songs of work and worship, usually lined out by one person with a call and response action from a group. A joyous celebration of life and free sexuality was coupled with improvisation as lyrics were constantly updated and changed to keep up the groups' interest. The percussion of the African music began to change the rhythms of Appalachian singing and dancing. The introduction of the banjo to the Southern Mountains after the Civil War in the 1860s further hastened this process. Originally from Arabia, and brought to western Africa by the spread of Islam, the banjo then ended up in America. Mostly denigrated as a 'slave instrument' until the popularity of the Minstrel Show, starting in the 1840s, the banjo syncopation or 'bom-diddle-diddy' produced a different clog-dance and song rhythm by the turn of the century.

Many of the African-American spirituals were discovered by mainstream America, particularly with the collection _Slave Songs from the Southern United States_ published in 1867 and popularized by a small choir of black students from Fisk University in Nashville. With emancipation, black music began to move outside the South. By the 1920s a whole body of parlour songs known as 'race music' became popular. Many Appalachian songs sung today that allude to 'children' in the fields or 'mother' have been changed from 'pickaninnies' or 'Mammys'"


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## nellie g

wow, toastman, you gota relax a little. i dont know how much clearer i can say it. everyone else seems to get what i said but you. I could care less about the traditional 6r contemperary history of a musician, most of the time i dont know what the artists influences/background/state of origin are when i hear them for the first time. when i wrote about not hearing any authenticity or honesty in the music of old man seeger or old man honky pants, i'm saying that there music doesnt "feel" honest or authentic etc......(or to put it anouther way, its like the "feeling" i get when i go to a bar and see a middle age white guy from suburban anywhere usa trying to play and, even worse, sing robert johnson songs) i'm not even talking about all this historic shit. as an honest, authentic, not puttin on any fake overalls and pretending to be "Old Timey", type of musician, i can hear a fake a mile away.


but i'm glad your so excited about this, and your willing to get into it in a public forum. i hope we meet up some day and we can do this when we dont have to type it all out. i very slow with computers.


p.s. if you wana see something funny, you should check out the artical ray alden did in the Old Time Herald where he compared me to pete m.f.'n seeger. you can imagin how excited i was. not.


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## absurdtoast

hahaha don't worry, I've been relaxed the whole time....maybe the caps made it seem otherwise..that's the problem about having these conversations on here.

I didn't realize you had no interest in the history and background of the music you seem to love and know so well...I thought maybe you actually wanted to have some sort of discussion...but I was mistaken.

You just wanted to say "this sucks, its not authentic, I know what's authentic and real, I can hear it from a mile away, and this ain't it, and I don't like pete seeger"

Which is fine...its your opinion...despite it not having any historical basis or relevance to the topic...as nobody was tryin to pass this off as authentic, so don't worry. You have some grand knowledge of what sounds real, despite as you put it, not caring about the background/history/origin of the music...for whatever reason I thought you'd be into the history of the music..and you're not..which sucks but I'm not lookin to change your mind.

p.s. I understand now...I don't have to read any article about how good you are....your friend already set me straight. You are the real deal..you ain't one of them fake overall wearin, pretendin to be old timey suburban white robert johnson blues playin fakes...I believe you, you're a true old timey fiddle player that is in touch with the spirit n authenticity of old time music that you know so little about (historically?). I'll be sure to consult you if I need any future authentic verification with any music I listen to.


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## ped

absurdtoast said:


> hahaha don't worry, I've been relaxed the whole time....maybe the caps made it seem otherwise..that's the problem about having these conversations on here.
> 
> I didn't realize you had no interest in the history and background of the music you seem to love and know so well...I thought maybe you actually wanted to have some sort of discussion...but I was mistaken.
> 
> You just wanted to say "this sucks, its not authentic, I know what's authentic and real, I can hear it from a mile away, and this ain't it, and I don't like pete seeger"
> 
> Which is fine...its your opinion...despite it not having any historical basis or relevance to the topic...as nobody was tryin to pass this off as authentic, so don't worry. You have some grand knowledge of what sounds real, despite as you put it, not caring about the background/history/origin of the music...for whatever reason I thought you'd be into the history of the music..and you're not..which sucks but I'm not lookin to change your mind.
> 
> p.s. I understand now...I don't have to read any article about how good you are....your friend already set me straight. You are the real deal..you ain't one of them fake overall wearin, pretendin to be old timey suburban white robert johnson blues playin fakes...I believe you, you're a true old timey fiddle player that is in touch with the spirit n authenticity of old time music that you know so little about (historically?). I'll be sure to consult you if I need any future authentic verification with any music I listen to.


 

I have no idea where he is getting it either. You definitely didn't come off _not_ relaxed. If anything the poster before you seems to have thinly veiled hostility about it... lol


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## nellie g

Man your even more of a judjmental smart ass than I am. You seem toe get alot of satisfactiom picking apart the history of poor southerners so you can truly understand them. You should go far in the Yankee ethnomusicology scene. Magee some day you"ll chill out and not get so pissed when someone has a different opinion than you. 

Hope your not such a prick in real life.


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## absurdtoast

Sorry if I came across this way...I enjoy talking about the history of the music I like....and learning things...some people in here posted some great, interesting things...you werent one of them. I was getting satisfaction from talking about music I like with others who shared some great videos and knowledge. I didn't mean to come across as pissed off or whatever.

Anyway. Sorry. I'll repeat it one more time though...I posted this as "clawhammer banjo music"..its just folk music. Now if you wanna say it sucks, that's actually fine....I'm totally ok with that...we don't like the same thing. But you came in here unprovoked, on your high horse to defend the sanctity of traditional Southern Old Time music....*.which I never claimed this to be*_._ That was literally your first post...this sucks, this ain't real, I know what's real!!!!! Sorry...you came across as a "judgmental prick"...it was my fault for thinking you might want to talk more about the topic you brought up...you didn't, you just wanted to let everyone know that this didn't get your seal of old time authentic approval.

Just...*I'll say it one more time....this was never meant to be a representation of old time music....nobody was attacking old time music or claiming that you were a fake overall wearin old timey player....so no need to defend your character or what have you. I was merely posting some music I found and enjoyed...thats it...nothing about North vs. South, Yankee vs. true southerner....that was you who felt the need to bring it up.*

I'm not sure you actually even read any of my posts....I don't blame you...there is quite a bit here. So I posed the problem of ambiguity that is inherent in traditional old time music....a genre born out of inauthentic and mixing of various musical forms, in order to show how arguments about what is and isn't authentic old time music are by it's own nature ambiguous....I honestly thought you'd be interested and have something to add and teach. You don't. You just wanted do establish your old time credibility...and let it be known that you hold the gift of knowing what is authentic, can hear it from a mile away and don't waste your time on the history blah blah

and you did. I believe you..I'm sure you are an awesome musician and probably a really cool guy...with lots in common...but you didn't come across that way on here.

Anyway...we can stop now if ya want. This was kind of fun....hence why I kept posting and I actually did learn a lot from the other people.

So quick wrap up:

You: "this sucks, its not authentic, I know what's authentic and real, I can hear it from a mile away, and this ain't it, this is yankee northern crap and I don't like pete seeger, damn yankees, I ain't no fake overall playin old timey player, this music isn't real and I don't like it"

My new revised response (disregard all my other posts):
"ok"


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## nellie g

You have real nack for quoting people out of context in a way that proves your points. But rest asured that we can all see through the self assured, confident, exterior you hide behind.


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## ped

^^ I bet he don't like no sweet tea either.


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## absurdtoast

"hope you find some good o.t. banjo music before you fall into the trap of cheezzzzzyyy northern crap.

These are different instruments, like the fiddle and the violin . But all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when it's just some Yankee with a ________ trying to sound Authentic.

I just can't hear Any honesty in there music. Just My opinion dude .

I could care less about the traditional 6r contemperary history of a musician, most of the time i dont know what the artists influences/background/state of origin are when i hear them for the first time. when i wrote about not hearing any authenticity or honesty in the music of old man seeger or old man honky pants, i'm saying that there music doesnt "feel" honest or authentic etc......(or to put it anouther way, its like the "feeling" i get when i go to a bar and see a middle age white guy from suburban anywhere usa trying to play and, even worse, sing robert johnson songs) i'm not even talking about all this historic shit. as an honest, authentic, not puttin on any fake overalls and pretending to be "Old Timey", type of musician, i can hear a fake a mile away.

p.s. if you wana see something funny, you should check out the artical ray alden did in the Old Time Herald where he compared me to pete m.f.'n seeger. you can imagin how excited i was. not"


Please further explain yourself.....I'm not trying to prove anything or hide behind anything...I'm just some yankee who likes music...you are the real deal, not puttin on any fake overalls and pretending to be "Old Timey", type of musician. I get it. You come in here and set me straight...this is northern crap and ain't real authentic old timey music. Literally...that's the only points you've made.

I was sharing music and talking about music. That's it? Now you've exposed me to like...the 4 other people reading this thread...you got me!!!! I'm just some yankee judgmental asshole who likes talking and blabbing on about history and stuff. I get a lot of satisfaction picking apart the history of poor southerners so I can truly understand them....which is why I post banjo folk music in hopes to attract real old timey southeners to come set me straight about what's real and authentic and what's not.

Again...we agree....this music ISN'T, I repeat...ISN'T traditional authentic old time music. This is clawhammer banjo music...folk if ya wanna call it that.It may suck to you...I'm ok with that. I was really just looking for an interesting conversation haha
Whatever...I've been exposed now.


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## venusinpisces

Hippies, step away from the banjos. Your jam band is not going to learn all about old time music in between bong rips.






And please, do not take this post too seriously.


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## joaquim33

well, really the problem with most of this old time music genre stuff is those old hillbillies could hardly play their instruments, sing in key, write their only lyrics, put on a good show and what-have-you... a lot of it was not very P.C. either! plus the primitive recording techniques from those days sound simply atrocious! that's why the folk revival was rightfully called the 'REVIVAL' people! its kind of neat to listen to those scratchy old 78 recordings for educational purposes, but you guys should not take it all so seriously! here is a good place to start if you really wanna dig on some good 'ole 'old timey music'. actually, these guys are the best selling old time band ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cstar

Love that you all at least are seeking to learn more and listen to anything other than mainstream corporate shit. so heres a few tracks i hope you all enjoy. Chris cutler gave a great talk about his concept of the new 21st century "folk" being more of a sampling/hybridization of musics through the proliferation of recordings and technology. It took me about a decade but I finally really grasped what he meant.(has to do with the banjo/ragga mixes i posted below)

In my band BOW+ARROW we play a "neo-folk" free improvised free meter sort of jazz/punk etc..
somewhere between CRASS and Beefheart (for those of you geeks/punks) also like a cross between sun ra and gwar(!) BOW+ARROW heres some vids(crazy shiz) BOW+ARROW live
I play all sorts of stringed instruments from mandolins/ukes/charangos etc..i even am trying to get a rabab(afghani instrument). But a string is a string...you can tune them however you like. In this way,even with a 1 stringed instrument a musician could really play any traditional form of music! i love it...its my silly "string theory"..but i think it Rings true.
So yea...there is an "authenticity" that comes from feeling a sound not parroting a style/sound. You just know it...or lets say some do. Others are suckers 
Long story short , heres my AUTHENTIC response to you guys volleys about authenticity.
If i'm buying some obscure ass mix of music at Amoeba(i live in LA) and the chick behind the counter tells me my Bill monroe cd (from 47?) is POP MUSIC! and that her boyfriend only plays OLD TIME MUSIC BANJO and doesnt listen to any music past 1940....then thats just great but i dont give a shit and you're a fucking dork that doesnt even get WHAT "FOLK" music is. my music here is the NEW TIME music, dumbass.
my take on a "new" "old time" music.
Mike Watt was nice enough to play it on his podcast(an orignial thats improv UKULELE+amen breaks)

*PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL CORPORATE PUPPET THEME SONG (for Edward Bernays and D. Boon) *
all of the music I have posted here is totally free (or you can donate if you like) but definitely meant to share if you dig! i work real hard to cook somethin real new for the world... check the rest of
*(A​)​M​(​e​)​(​R​)​!​/​(​c​)​ON​/​(​a) NU​-​GRASS (B​.​MONROE "OLD CROSS ROAD" MIX) *



*DOC WATSON / DOCK BOGGS "COUNTRY BLUES" GOLDMANZ $ACK$ Nu​-​Grasstafarian throb​(​a​)​x​(​e) (HISTORY REPEATS LIKE SKIPPIN STONEZ SINK mix) *


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## ped

I digg!


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## Cstar

heres another one for y'all....Flatt scruggs at 3:00 promise..
http://c-starsound.bandcamp.com/alb...g-e-o-vol-1-i-am-the-a-mo-e-b-u-r-the-a-hol-e


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