# Why I'm NOT an Occupier



## Pheonix (Feb 13, 2012)

Right now should be the best time for us to do our hobo BS without threat of the police. Right now most police departments don't care about the homeless anymore due to lay offs and budget cuts, they just don't have the manpower or resources to deal with us anymore. Popo will still waste their time harassing protesters since the higher up's hate protesters ALOT more than homeless, and when you get a bunch of protesters camping in public parks and squatting foreclosed property like a bunch of homeless people, who do you think is going to get caught between the protesters and the police?
I think it is disrespectful to the squatting community for these protesters to use their tactics and call it "Occupying" instead of "Squatting". by calling it "Occupying" it makes it sound like they think they are the originators of this strategy, when they had squatters in Europe before this country even existed. not only are they disrespecting the Squatting culture but they are bringing the heat down on squatters and campers alike.
I've seen police evict homeless camps that have been there for 3 years and all of a sudden they cops evict them and the Occupiers protest the eviction but they are to stupid to realize they are the reason the homeless are getting evicted.
In early dec. I joined the protesters at Occupy UCDavis after seeing them get pepper sprayed on tv. I spent a week and a half at the Dutton Hall Occupation and even thou I meet some good people there for the most part I felt VERY, VERY unwanted here because I'm a white male. I've lived most of my life in black or mexican drug ghettos, been to jail many times but never felt as discriminated against as I did at the Occupy.
I kept hearing them saying they want to end hate and greed and I tell them every time that you can't eradicate a human emotion and if you try your gonna fail as bad as the church did at outlawing lust. I kept hearing about non-violence teach-ins and was very interested in going to one since I have some mental problems I'm trying to deal with and being able to better control my violent rage would be better for me and the community around me. but they kept giving me the run around about it and eventually I got the impression that they don't really want to help me just themselves.
When I went to Occupy Sacramento they told me the cops are going to harass me about my shopping cart and camping gear and of course the cops did. The cop even told me right in front of the occupiers that he doesn't care if I'm homeless he cares that I'm a protester and the protesters did nothing said nothing. when I confronted their legal committee about it they offered no help and for some reason are not concerned that they cant use camping gear. apparently they don't know the true definition of camping gear, camping gear is designed to keep you alive against the elements when sleeping outside, blankets don't do that. If they don't care about my health and well-being then I don't care about them.
they also tried to tell me not to smoke my weed in their little area cause the cops will fuck with me and like above if they would help me defend my right to medication, and with that one the alienate over half of their supporters.
as a homeless person I like the fact that the police don't have the time or resources to deal with me and would like to see the government stay in a state of shambles for as long as possible so I can remain under the popo radar for as long as possible. I feel if the occupiers do get their way they will make changes that will still be designed to keep people like me and you on the bottom of society with little to no chance of rising up. I think the Occupiers turned me into a Republican.

I think the Occupiers are using the homeless for their own political gain and they are going to screw us all in the end. ohh and unlike all the occupy websites and facebook groups I WILL NOT delete your post or ban you for disagreeing with my point of view. I encourage argumentative discussion.


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## ipoPua (Feb 13, 2012)

i hear that man, i lived at my buffalo occupy from the third day, early october til the week before christmas. theres so much bullshit that gets in the way of intelligent, progressive discourse, there are so many people who it seemed to me were actively trying to derail the movement from actually -being- anything, maybe i'm paranoid but i spent alot of time watching and listening and it really legitimately seemed that way to me. of course those people couldnt accomplish anything without the masses going along with their game, but for the most part we're all trained so well to blindly follow the most confident seeming person, you can't entirely blame them. occupy really is for the most part a forum for selfrighteous hippie kids to convince themselves theyre doing something real, when all the camps seem to be is a bunch of pussyfooting and ego stroking without taking much, if any real action. and i hate to say this, it breaks my heart cos i was sooo pumped about what this couldve been and i put soooo much effort into this movement and it just turned to shit. it's not all for naught though, if you were there in the early days you took a real magical sense of what can potentially come from passionate people coming together and educating one another. i do think at least some occupys are gonna turn around and continue to push that, intereducation of local communities, but for th most part its almost nothing. i dont feel like i really wrapped this up at all but i'm sick of typing so im gonna hit send now


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## Pheonix (Feb 13, 2012)

I noticed the college students are alot smarter then the rest of the occupiers, but even they are only smart in one field. when they were talking about hatred one girl started talking like she actually knew the psychological nature of hatred (probably a psych major) but the ignorant masses quickly shoot down her idea of hatred being just another opinion that is protected by the first amendment.


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 13, 2012)

there's a lot of stuff here that i'm not going to address because i can't address it (not being present for anything mentioned by the op, i can't make comment on what is necessarily a subjective, one-sided presentation of events), but there are two things off the top of my head:

1) re: smoking weed on occupied premises: i agree with what i understand to be the general consensus among occupiers, which is that those areas should be drug and alcohol free. tho i personally partake when i have the opportunity, i think having illicit substances of whatever type on occupy premises makes the cops just that much more likely to harass occupations (tho cops are going to do that anyway). if you're going to smoke weed or whatever, why can't you do it off premises for as long as needed?

2) occupy (as i understand it) is supposed to be a movement that rejects electoral politics, at least as we have it in america today. i don't really understand why disillusionment with occupy would drive someone toward the republicans (unless you were being hyperbolic/sarcastic with that remark).

3) i am supportive of occupy, but there are definite problems with it. they've set up a narrative of being the 99% vs the 1%, but the way occupy is designed, it's almost necessarily a coalition of the bottom 1% (the homeless and/or otherwise unemployed -- i.e., the poor in society who have the advantage of having a lot of free time on their hands) and the top 1% (i.e., the trust fund demographic and students -- tho the latter aren't necessarily 1%ers, they still tend to be more privileged than yr average homeless/unemployed and yr average working person). for obvious reason, there's going to be a lot of tension.

4) tho technically what occupiers were doing was squatting, i think the name 'occupy' was chosen in reference to a union striking tactic wherein striking workers would occupy their workplaces (tho it may also have been in reference to imperial occupations in the middle east, re: iraq & afghanistan, which were facilitated by 'wall street'.)

i haven't spent a lot of time at any occupy camps (i spent some time at occupy wall street, occupy dc, and occupy pittsburgh, but i didn't really get too involved -- just camped out and ate food, really; was traveling at the time), but i'm generally supportive w/ some reservations and am hoping that occupy can expand in a way that is radical and positive, rather than being held back by liberals.


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## freedude2012 (Feb 13, 2012)

i havent been to any of the occupies and no do i want to go cause from what ive seen and read most are there jus to be seen and/or get their 15 min of fame on the news or youtube and like yall said they say one thing and do another, kill any good ideas, preach unity but push ppl out, piss off the pigs then most run and wont stand against what they started themselves.

when i first heard abought the occupy movement it actaully had good potential to help alot a folks from the bottom on up but the way it was handled imo and the way that it went it went from somethin good to what looks like a plot to bring attion to the ones that are homeless and to travelers. its almost like they want the attion on us because it will make their middle class life better some how. and the last time i checked if your gonna protest you prostest and if one gos down everyone helps them get back up not jus leave them layin there

and this is jus my oppinon and how ive perseved this occupy thing and the way that it turned out for the origanl idea


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## Pheonix (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm upset about the weed thing cause I came to CA to become a legal weed grower since it's what I'm good at. but why should I support a movement that doesn't want to support my hopeful future attempt of not being unemployed.
The republican comment is me thinking I could get more help by working for the 1% than against them.

I also think the Occupy movement is causing me to make less money when I'm panhandling in a area with a big Occupy presence. either people give money to the occupiers instead of me or people don't want to give me money anymore cause the occupiers are fucking with their money. Now the Occupiers are fucking with my money too, now I know how the LongShoreMen feel.


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 13, 2012)

i get you on occupy fucking up our spange. there were several times when we would ask for spare change and people would tell us we should be over at occupy. yeah, sure, dude, it makes for a good bum feed, but i'm trying to get a bus ticket out of this town.


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## Raging Bird (Feb 14, 2012)

frzrbrnd said:


> 2) occupy (as i understand it) is supposed to be a movement that rejects electoral politics, at least as we have it in america today. i don't really understand why disillusionment with occupy would drive someone toward the republicans (unless you were being hyperbolic/sarcastic with that remark).


 
Seems like you can either reform the existing system or reject it outright - do you think there's anything approaching a popular consensus within the movement regarding which of the two is the more productive option?

If the wind is blowing towards radical reform, it seems like voicing a specific demand for transparency in campaign finance would be the obvious first step. The fact that I haven't really heard this and don't even know which option people lean towards, in spite of STAYING at several of the occupies, probably has a lot to do with its lack of any success whatsoever.


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 14, 2012)

thirtydollarbillyall said:


> Seems like you can either reform the existing system or reject it outright - do you think there's anything approaching a popular consensus within the movement regarding which of the two is the more productive option?


 
i haven't stepped foot on any occupy premises since last november and even then it was for a short time only, _but_: the fact that occupy refuses to give out a list of demands (which is a tactic i agree with) and the fact that it is (at least on the surface) very inclusive, makes me think that probably no, there is no consensus about whether reform or revolution is the correct path. you've got radicals and liberals that are both part of the same movement and i have no clue what the ratio of radicals to liberals is.

in what way do you think that occupy has not had "any success whatsoever"? it's a movement that's only 4-5 months old, so i'd say its still pretty young so far. if they're going to have success on a large scale, it's probably going to take a while. i don't know what your politics are, but i consider myself to be anarchist-ish, so i'm already to the left of most of the populous, and kind of expect to be disappointed with politics all the time, even when they look promising.


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 14, 2012)

edit/fuckthewaythisboardisdesigned


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## shiftingGEARS (Feb 14, 2012)

A pacifist revolution in the united states will not work. occupy is willing to get their heads bashed in, but then they cry about it. Do people really think flash mobbing the elite will make them think twice about how much money they are stealing from the lower class citizens? All the elite are going to do is go back to their castles that you people built, sit at their dining room table with their plastic wives and bastard children and eat a nice meal that you farmers grew or raised, and they will be laughing at your goofy tactics the whole time, all wile you dance, starve and freeze in the streets. I'm sorry if my views offend any of you occupiers, I do sympathize with you. I just think you folks should start utilizing some guerrilla warfare tactics.

If you really want equality for all and no more suffering at the hands of our rulers, With a government and a elite class so diabolical and violent as they are we are going to have to shed some blood to gain back our livelihoods.


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## Pheonix (Feb 14, 2012)

I've only been to Oakland during the port shut down, but lately I keep hearing how the movement is splitting into the "occupiers" and the "99%ers" I've heard and would like to hear from someone that knows more about it. but it sounds like they are splitting between violent and non-violent tactics. Occupy Oakland will never win if they work against the Anarchist. The idea of a non-violent revolution sounds great but is not practical in this day and age. They are opening the door for a future non-violent revolution in the future and I respect them for that, but to tell the violent Anarchist to not fight for what they believe in because it makes them look bad. To me that sounds like the Occupiers think they are better then the anarchist and are not going to help them even if they do succeed. They are only looking out for themselves just like every human that is a slave to their own emotions.


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## wizehop (Feb 14, 2012)

Is occupy even still around? I thought it was long over. Seems like no one gives a shit any more


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## Pheonix (Feb 14, 2012)

It's been fizzling out since dec. but it ain't dieing fast enough for me.


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## wizehop (Feb 15, 2012)

Its all right here kids


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## Raging Bird (Feb 15, 2012)

shiftingGEARS said:


> If you really want equality for all and no more suffering at the hands of our rulers, With a government and a elite class so diabolical and violent as they are we are going to have to shed some blood to gain back our livelihoods.


 
Gotta say this makes a lot of sense, but I think it's clear who would win in a violent confrontation between the state and the protestors. If "raising awareness of the problem" is the goal, rather than actual victory, I think it would be a lot easier for the media to quash that if things got violent. 

Seems like their ultimate goal at the moment is to get the average person to identify with the movement as victims of the upper class, then hope the masses do something about it on their own, without any actual direction from the movement itself.


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 15, 2012)

thirtydollarbillyall said:


> Seems like their ultimate goal at the moment is to get the average person to identify with the movement as victims of the upper class, then hope the masses do something about it on their own, without any actual direction from the movement itself.


 
is there any more that could actually be done? without a large movement, revolution won't get anywhere.


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## Raging Bird (Feb 15, 2012)

frzrbrnd said:


> in what way do you think that occupy has not had "any success whatsoever"? it's a movement that's only 4-5 months old, so i'd say its still pretty young so far. if they're going to have success on a large scale, it's probably going to take a while. i don't know what your politics are, but i consider myself to be anarchist-ish, so i'm already to the left of most of the populous, and kind of expect to be disappointed with politics all the time, even when they look promising.


 

I think left and right are irrelevant now, as there is really only one issue that should be consuming everyone's attention: The fact that democracy doesn't exist anymore because of the role money plays in representative government. Maybe Occupy has played a part in getting more people to realize this, so that's something, I'll say.

In my opinion, however, it's too little, too late, from the only legitimate opposition movement in America. Occupy literally represents the interests of 99% of America, but economic inequality is effectively unacknowledged in the presidential debates, and there is actually a chance that Newt Fucking Gingrich could be elected president on a platform of _repealing the capital gains tax. _If the politics of the occupy movement aren't even factoring in to the presidential election that's occurring, they haven't made a significant mark. Why shouldn't they form a legitimate political party and start controlling city councils, state senates, and actual seats in the house? This is a lifetime's lowpoint of confidence in the 2 parties, so why not? 

If they're actually trying to reform the system, why aren't they generating internal consensus, consolidating into a cohesive voting bloc, approaching established politicians for support, writing bills, and getting them passed? It's a lot less romantic, but why fail romantically when you can succeed pragmatically? I stayed at a few of them, and the fact is I found this kind of thinking completely absent. 

I don't have much room to criticize, because I'm not out there doing it myself or anything. There are just strange principles and barriers to success within the movement - and within our generation - that I have never understood.


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## Pheonix (Feb 15, 2012)

thirtydollarbillyall said:


> I think left and right are irrelevant now, as there is really only one issue that should be consuming everyone's attention: The fact that democracy doesn't exist anymore because of the role money plays in representative government. Maybe Occupy has played a part in getting more people to realize this, so that's something, I'll say.
> 
> In my opinion, however, it's too little, too late, from the only legitimate opposition movement in America. Occupy literally represents the interests of 99% of America, but economic inequality is effectively unacknowledged in the presidential debates, and there is actually a chance that Newt Fucking Gingrich could be elected president on a platform of _repealing the capital gains tax. _If the politics of the occupy movement aren't even factoring in to the presidential election that's occurring, they haven't made a significant mark. Why shouldn't they form a legitimate political party and start controlling city councils, state senates, and actual seats in the house? This is a lifetime's lowpoint of confidence in the 2 parties, so why not?


 
what most people don't realize is that the Democrats and Republican were once the same party known as "Democratic-Republican Party". The difference between the 2 parties today is minor, they both work together to screw everyone else just as they did when they actually worked together. They split the party so people won't think they all have total power and it also makes the public think things have changed but the only thing that changes is the name. Their going to play the name game again, we will end up with Libertarians and Tea Party members witch will be the exact same as Democrats and Republicans. The funny thing is both the Libertarian Party and the Tea Party were created by Ron Paul.


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## Kamera (Feb 28, 2012)

ive spent alot of time at alot of occupy camps and they say alot of shit they dont believe. alot of times people just show up to the GA's and make decisions for everyone and then go back to there home's and dont do shit for anybody and then nobody follows what they say. as for the group being "non-violent" alot of the people in the camps dont even strictly believe in that they just know if they start breaking and vandalizing shit all the yuppies are ganna throw a bitch fit and if they start fighting the cops there ganna get there asses kicked, but those things still happen i remember there was plenty of anarchist graffiti on city hall in LA and just today some cops got fucked up in sacramento.

as time progresses i think the movement is going to get more radical and i do like some of the actions they've done so far like the port shutdowns and the general strike


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## frzrbrnd (Feb 28, 2012)

Kamera said:


> ive spent alot of time at alot of occupy camps and they say alot of shit they dont believe.


like what?


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## Kamera (Feb 28, 2012)

frzrbrnd said:


> like what?


well i mean the camp as a whole has "consensus" on alot of things that the people within the camp dont actually believe. i consensed to not drink or smoke weed at the camp but i did it everyday. they also agree'd that they're non violent but people still have chucked rocks and other shit at cops. im not calling anyone a liar its just alot easier to agree to something when a few hundred people have been bickering in the cold about it for hours then when shit actually goes down ya know


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## Ash Ketchum (Feb 28, 2012)

pheonix said:


> I think the Occupiers are using the homeless for their own political gain and they are going to screw us all in the end. ohh and unlike all the occupy websites and facebook groups I WILL NOT delete your post or ban you for disagreeing with my point of view. I encourage argumentative discussion.


 
I understand how you could get this idea. Maybe I'm not one of the specific kinds of occupiers you speak of, but I personally don't want any political gain for myself. I was at Occupy Wall Street since basically the beginning and all I ever really wanted was the government to stop treating its citizens and people in other countries like objects just to have power. I want the same things for you as I want for myself. I think its super fucked up that they did nothing to try and defend you and your things. If they really were trying to defend the "99%" people who keep all their possessions in shopping carts share a big role in that. So I'm sorry that people at Occupy treated you like that. 

I would like to say from what I gathered the term "Occupy" is supposed to be mocking the fact that we are occupying Afghanistan and such. It is not supposed to be the same as squatting although it literally is. 

To me the purpose of Occupy was to bring the community together to discuss what should be done about the country and the worlds growing problems. It was supposed to be a place where any person could go and they would be heard. As someone who has been to multiple occupations I'm very sorry they treated you not as an equal.Its not what I thought it was going to be... huge disappointment.


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## JoelRailDude (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah, about the GA's and such, i think is everyone's fault. some want to see action, but the "pacifist-peaceful" BS gets in the way, they loose interest, So other people with EGO and GREED take over the GA's to feel in control, other stupid morons follow, but without everyone's interest, the dont follow up. the one's with EGO dont care anyways and go home.

Violence: I told someone this:
"when you see this sign, it means I'm an occupier, I'm peaceful. When you see this Fist , I'm not occupier anymore."

I seriusly think that without leadership, or common 100% set goal, Occupy aint gona do shit accomplish nothing. I think a underground group will form out of it, they will do change. Every hippie pacifist @ occupy will just bitch and wine.


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