# Fucking Reformists...



## NM Black Cross Medic (Feb 8, 2012)

We all know who the peace police are, right? The ones who think "diversity of tactics" is a dirty word.

We have them in NM too, but here they're getting a little bored with the lack of militant tactics.

So, lacking a fucked up window to gawk at, they decide that any sort of direct action qualifies as violence.

When we mic-checked the governor, it was "violent" and "threatening".

When we disrupted an ALEC dinner with nothing but our vocal cords, it was "irresponsible" and "childish".

NM has historically had a really crappy direct action culture, do these assholes really need to stifle it when it starts to take hold.

For fuck's sake, Occupy Farmington decided to ban any type of illegal action in their local "movement" (more like groveling fest).

We all know the peace police, but has anyone else ran into this particular issue?


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## japanarchist (Feb 8, 2012)

I just finished listening to a radio show discussing related matters. Chris Hedges wrote an article condemning black bloc stating that they're detrimental to occupy and Kristof Lopaur from occupy oakland decided to debate him on it. http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/77663


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## ipoPua (Feb 8, 2012)

tell the dumb bitches to fuc off n do yr shit anyway. yeah fuck the fuckers but dont let em stop you. deffo ran into similiar through occupy buffalo, cockslapping any real idea with their peace bullshit. but as long as youve got a few people, fuck it do it anyway.


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## NM Black Cross Medic (Mar 24, 2012)

Agreed. "fuck you, we're doing it" has been a very useful phrase as of late.


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## BenjaminHunter (Mar 24, 2012)

Yeah, at my occupy, all we ever talk about is legislation and our local governments. I try to chime in to say that the system will not bring about any change if it affects their wealth and their power, and I'm labeled a radical. Bot saying that I'm not, but they use it as a derogatory term. Well, as I see it, they can remain in their prison. I'm breaking out. The occupy movement, I think, has sooo much potential, but they're wasting too much time trying to appease their enemies. Well, except Oakland, and a few others maybe. I've kinda moved on from it. I'm gonna try to establish a traveling commune soon, that just goes from place to place, establishing autonomous zones for those most affected by "the state" and give them means to protect themselves. Of course, it's all in the air right now.


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## soapybum (Mar 24, 2012)

Yeah, occupy is largely a bunch of reformists, and I see it eventually getting absorbed into capitalism just like the whole food (organic, local etc), diy, and 'green' movements have. Capitalism is the core problem and it'll just absorb and integrate anything that isnt directly fighting against it.

Benjamin, cool that you wanna do that but before you go into someone else's hood and be all vanguard-esque make sure you actually understand that community's issues and get to know the people in that community. We have to many privileged white people telling other people how to fix their communities when they don't even know the people who make up that community.


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## venusinpisces (Mar 24, 2012)

Here is a comment from birdsbeforethestorm.net that seems highly relevant to this conversation:

"Since the WTO i felt DOT (diversity of tactics) was double speak for “hit and running” leaving others to bear the brunt of poorly thought out and unprincipled property destruction...Sadly all too many DOT actions serve the purpose of infiltrators. So why is there no in depth analysis or openness to critique about the true long term impacts of property destruction? *Why are any and all unhappy reactions from residents of Oakland who are very upset by the black bloc not heeded, but rather silenced? I am talking about several women of color who have expressed their deep dismay at these behaviors instigated by primarily white male anarchists that leave their community in shambles and push them completely away from occupy. Many men and women of color living in Oakland have told me themselves how upset they are by these developments and that the young people of color who join the black bloc do NOT represent the community or all participants of color in Occupy Oakland. One Black father told me he is sick of cleaning up the mess the black bloc leaves behind and he is part of OO as well. There is a whole level of voices that are NOT heard on Democracy Now! or anywhere else for that matter."*


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## BenjaminHunter (Mar 24, 2012)

soapybum said:


> Yeah, occupy is largely a bunch of reformists, and I see it eventually getting absorbed into capitalism just like the whole food (organic, local etc), diy, and 'green' movements have. Capitalism is the core problem and it'll just absorb and integrate anything that isnt directly fighting against it.
> 
> Benjamin, cool that you wanna do that but before you go into someone else's hood and be all vanguard-esque make sure you actually understand that community's issues and get to know the people in that community. We have to many privileged white people telling other people how to fix their communities when they don't even know the people who make up that community.


 
Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes, I kinda rush into things all idealistic without thinking too deeply about it. The collective mind always helps me out.  I totally agree with you. It's not like I'm going to force autonomy on anyone, I didn't mean that. What I'm hoping to do is establish friends and just offer my help, if they want it, or just let them know that we're in solidarity with them. I don't wanna be like that Kony 2012 guy and push my corrupt agenda on the people of Uganda, especially not without their consent.


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## NM Black Cross Medic (Mar 25, 2012)

soapybum said:


> Yeah, occupy is largely a bunch of reformists, and I see it eventually getting absorbed into capitalism just like the whole food (organic, local etc), diy, and 'green' movements have.


 
I only half agree with that. It's true that reformist groups are stepping up attempts to co-opt the movement and that radical voices are being marginalized. However, I still see a lot of potential for the movement to be a force for revolution. The problem is that radicals have started to write off the movement as "co-opted" rather than step up attempts to radicalize it. The movement at it's roots is anarchist in nature. It is still refusing to ask the rulers to solve our problems. Those two points enough make it salvageable in my opinion and it's ability to pick up momentum after the spring makes it worth saving. But we're still going to have to do all the work and fucking save it.


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## veggieguy12 (Mar 25, 2012)

Simple property destruction, it seems, does not make any notable impact on targeted institutions or Capitalism; also, perhaps due to its lack of impact, it is seen by so many as merely venting frustrations. While venting is useful, it is rarely strategic, and certainly where local people are bothered by or unsatisfied with the results of an action it may be best to dispense with such moves - if property destruction can even be thought of as a tactical move.
The questions deserving of but lacking substantial consideration/debate are, I think, 1) Why is resistance limited to smashing windows or protesting (whether that means leaving when so ordered by Authority, or refusing and being made captive)? Why not first accept the array of tactics available, practice the ones that require training, and prepare for the second-nature use of these tactics? Why have all the resistance groups worldwide (Palestine, Libya, Syria, Ireland, Chile, S. Africa, Greece, Chechnya, Nigeria, Guatemala, Brazil, etc.) such a range of actions available, but here in "the belly of the beast" the resistance (such as it is) chooses to disable itself and go into battle limited by self-imposed restraints?
2) What is the goal of your efforts? Are you trying to make an impact, are you hoping to radicalize the Occupy group, are you wanting to dialogue with the Governor? It seems that you are taking one route toward another goal while skipping attempts to make a direct impact because you haven't realized how you might.
Concerning the straggling Occupy movement specifically, with its large population of local-weirdo/crank and liberal-reformer personalities, I think a third question is merited: Just what will it take for these people to see that there is no reforming this rotten system, there is no easy fix that will be implemented after staying on a lawn for a week?


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## AnarchoNomad (Oct 22, 2012)

I have ran into what I considered to be fairly ridiculous interpretations of non-violence several times.
In Eugene, Oregon a group of us protested at a city council member's house (George Poling, total douche) and when the police came and started making arrests there were chants of "No justice, no peace, fuck the police." (Partially due to the fact that a pig grabbed a girl off the sidewalk and drug her on to the lawn then arrested her for "trespassing.")
We were berated by several Occupy members for "using violent language."
Another similar issue happened in Springfield, Mo. About 15 of us went to a city council member's house and asked him some questions. The police did not get involved and all remained civil. Yet we still were met with much criticism, saying that "going to a public officials house is threatening and therefore violent." We had one lady say she was quitting Occupy because she didn't like the direction that it was ging because of "the anarchists."


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## Beegod Santana (Jan 6, 2014)

Old thread, but I gotta chime in here.

Property destruction gets you nothing. Nothing helps capitalism move along better than destruction. Companies get a fat check to rebuild (often funded by tax payers), insurance companies get a chance to validate their existence, politicians get an incident to reference when describing how their opposition is out of line and everyday people get at best an eyesore in their neighborhood and at worst loose weeks or months of work while the property is being renovated.

Also, as much as I like the idea of showing up at a representative's property to kindly ask some questions, it is pretty much "storming the castle" and to expect it go smoothly is a little naive in my opinion.


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