# heres a theory



## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

I was doing some light reading the other day and came up with an interesting theory. Haven't done a lot of research to prove it yet. But I still feel it is something to consider and would appreciate StP's input on the matter.

If you are familiar with J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings (1954), you know that it is based on World War II. Mordor being Nazi Germany and the other regions representing the other countries involved. Nearly everything in the books can be paralleled to actual people and events. The exception I find is the creation of the Orcs.

The Orcs are created using the corpses of elves, men, and other Middle Earth races, bringing them back to life. The loose definition of a zombie is a reanimated corpse. 

The Nazis not only systematically robbed and murdered the Jews and other minority groups, but used them for slave labor and medical experiments. Could reanimation been one of them, the goal being to create a replenishable army of undead to overtake the world.

Keep in mind that the idea of zombies hadn't really been discussed outside of Haiti until the turn of the century. The word zombie hadn't even been used in American speech until 1929. The modern day concept of zombies was derived from the novel I Am Legend(1954).

Based on the fact that it was a relatively new concept and would be beneficial to the rise of the Nazi regime, do you think it is possible that the creation of war zombies might have been one of their experiments?


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## Pheonix (Feb 7, 2012)

you call it zombies, Hitler called it mind control.


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## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

Not even mind control, just simple reanimation for war purposes. The rest of the experiments performed in concentration camps served a military purpose, from fighting malaria to preventing hypothermia in Russia.


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## finn (Feb 7, 2012)

You might want to look into operation paperclip to help your research. But for reanimation, you'd have to start small before you go up to humans, and even mice can't be reanimated. Then you have all these other factors, given that the gut bacteria tend to start working on gutting the body mere hours after death. Think about how quickly meat spoils. The other problem about reanimation is that there are just so many things that can kill a person which then has to be repaired. Brainwashing people into helping you is just so much easier, and you get more bang for the buck.


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## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm not trying to create a zombie army, as cool as it could potentially be. I just want to see where my theory takes me. Definitely going to do a lot of research on the subject, talk to some experts. Could make an interesting dissertation.


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## finn (Feb 7, 2012)

Sure, sure you're just working on a dissertation. I'm going to stock up on ammo just in case...


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## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

I've already started working on my apocalypse plan. 
I just think that its an interestingly under-discussed subject. Not sure where to start in my research, besides the obvious Wikipedia reading lol.


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## scatwomb (Feb 7, 2012)

The Orcs could just be a metaphor for the creation of mindless killing machines. I feel like your interpretation of them as "zombies" shows a 21st century bias - because you know what a zombie is, you're misinterpreting Tolken's metaphor. I doubt Tolken consciously thought of the Orcs as coming back from the dead - they are made from the earth. They are not human, much like mindless armies of men killing one another. 

That's just my interpretation, though. Happy Orcing!


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## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

But Tolkien did create what our modern interpretation of zombies.
The Nazis were trying to desensitize the troops and make them zombies in the sense that they were merely taking orders mindlessly.


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## scatwomb (Feb 7, 2012)

KatAttack said:


> But Tolkien did create what our modern interpretation of zombies.
> The Nazis were trying to desensitize the troops and make them zombies in the sense that they were merely taking orders mindlessly.


Okay okay, I see where you're going.

I think you'd need to provide a clear link between Tolken's Orcs and zombies. The zombie metaphor, which is definitely overused and under appreciated, is super meaningful I think. I think the early Romero films are pretty clear in their use of zombies to convey the mindless consumers we've become. I love that shit.


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## Teko (Feb 7, 2012)

ill defiantly be checking back on this thread. interesting shit!


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## travelin (Feb 7, 2012)

I suggest you read The Silmarillions.

I, for one, was _utterly fascinated_ while reading The Silmarillions. When i was done with it, i read it again, and yet again about three months later. over the last 30 or so years ive read it probably six more times and every time i catch something new. the way all these different elements weave in and around each other is amazing to me. Sitting here writing this i am seized by the desire to read it again!

I fully acknowledge that people will see different things in Tolkiens writings and for me or anyone else to simply say, "this is what it is about and any other opinion is wrong" is a testament that the mind that says that is a closed one.

the story can definately be seen as representative of the huge war machine of the axis powers against the allies efforts to destroy that machine.

I hold the opinion that it can be seen as a statement on industrialization's effects on mankind. An age of heros and individuality challenged by the smoke belching, environment destroying icon of progress, devouring creativity and beauty

Orrrrrr, it could just be a whacking good tale a feller with a most vivid imagination thought up to try and sell to make a little bit of money.

at any rate, our world is much better for the contributions of Tolkien!


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## KatAttack (Feb 7, 2012)

I picked up a few books. Hopefully ill get some insight.


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## daveycrockett (Apr 12, 2012)

im jewish why would you be intersted in shit like that it makes me sick to hear about it.


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## Matt Derrick (Apr 12, 2012)

daveycrockett said:


> im jewish why would you be intersted in shit like that it makes me sick to hear about it.


 
as sick as it is, it's a part of our human history, and there's a lot we can learn from it.


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## daveycrockett (Apr 12, 2012)

i know, its just the thought.


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## Pheonix (Apr 12, 2012)

Here's another thought about making a zombie, Jeffrey Dohmer would inject hydrochloric acid into a living victim's brain in an attempt to make a zombie.


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## daveycrockett (Apr 12, 2012)

hahaaa now thats sick. he really did that shit, slayer, got asong about it 213


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## outskirts (Apr 12, 2012)

The reanimation of a corpse just goes against the laws of nature. It's just impossible, but a thought provoking topic none the less.
I must admit I have not read Tolkien's work. But I have read Frankenstein, which really delves into this territory.
Though Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is really about humanity's inhumanity, as opposed to mindless zombie armies.


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## Matt Derrick (Apr 12, 2012)

outskirts said:


> Though Mary Shelly's Frankenstein is really about humanity's inhumanity, as opposed to mindless zombie armies.


 
the same could be said about most of george romero's work


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## Thoreau (Apr 12, 2012)

humans cant do it all, what about robots? surely the military budget of, again the US, it is really high thats why im saying, could be the development of Robocops? you cant use bullets on them can you? 
They got us now


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