# NEED WITNESSES: Arrested at Alley Katz on Best Friends Day



## Crocodile (Sep 22, 2009)

Hello,

On August 22nd, I was arrested at Alley Katz on Best Friends Day, at the Strike Anywhere show, on a charge of "conspiring to incite riot." I can't talk about what happened, but I desperately need witnesses who can testify in defense of me. My court date is October 15th in Richmond, VA. I am so fucked if I get convicted. It's a class 5 felony, carrying a maximum sentence of 10 years. If you were there, and recognize me from there, then you may qualify as a witness. If you are coming into town, I can house you and probably feed you. Shiit, if you're rubbertramping it, I will even raise gas money for you to come down. Please, help keep a friend, of the present or future, out of prison. Private message me and we'll talk.


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## veggieguy12 (Sep 22, 2009)

Hey, sorry to hear this.
Can you discuss the evidence the state will present against you?
You're in a position I don't at all envy, but if I were you, I'd look at it that the prosecution has a lot to prove, and I hope that jurors would require significant proofs before dumping 10 years on anyone.
My point here is that you seriously consider whether they have enough strong evidence to convince a jury against you when you get offered a plea to something like conviction + 10 months in + 3 years supervised probation. They will offer you something, they are not looking to try another case even if they are confident about it. But do they have videotape? Audio? Multiple witnesses? Undercover informants? What credibility does the arresting officer have? Has he had any civilian complaints filed against him? Can you reach the band, perhaps they can put out an appeal? Perhaps they can reach the show's audience, and somebody there audio-recorded the show where you are alleged to have committed the incitement? Toward this end, possibly contact the venue about reaching the booking agent for Strike Anywhere?
Keep in mind the budget crunches states are under, that they are not looking to lockup people who aren't murdering, raping, or trafficking.
Good luck, I'll be thinking of you - I mean it.


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## finn (Sep 23, 2009)

To be on the safe side, in case for whatever reason you are found guilty, letters sent to the judge that attest to your character such as mainstream volunteer activities and nonprofit groups will reduce your sentencing time.


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## Crocodile (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you. These are all great suggestions. I really hope someone comes forward because if I have witnesses, that's the main thing that will clear me. Where could I find the officer's police record?


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## Mouse (Sep 25, 2009)

do you have more info abotu yourself? the case?

I'm friends w/ a lot of people in RVA and I can post stuff up on myspace and get the word spread around a bit hopefully. PM me more info and i'll share it with them.


luckily, I wasn't at that show. we decided that chilling at my friends and playing card games was more fun that night and thankfully so. we found out the next day what happened.


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## drunken marauder (Sep 25, 2009)

Well as far as police reports do you should be able to get them at what ever police station... They are public record or they will have to present all evidence at a preliminar hearing or indictment however they do it there proving there is enough evidence to bind it over to a felony court.. You dont have to do anything in this part it is their burden to show proof that a crime was committed.. Do not waive this hearing... It is your right......


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## hartage (Sep 25, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> Thank you. These are all great suggestions. I really hope someone comes forward because if I have witnesses, that's the main thing that will clear me. Where could I find the officer's police record?



I'm not sure that is public information. If it is I'm sure it will be that sanitized version of it to "protect" the officer. To get his real employment record you will have to get a subpoena and present that to get the record. Whoever is representing you be it public defender or retained attorney should have already done that. If not I think going to the court clerk of the court who has jurisdiction of your case and ask where/how you can get subpoenas to gather evidence. Even then it is like pulling teeth. The cop union will likely get wind of the subpoena then challenge it. There will be a hearing where a judge will listen for the arguments for and against releasing that information to you. It can be done, but I imagine it will be a pain in the ass with the cops and their cronies fighting it every step of the way. You will have to argue the relevance and need of the cop's employment record. This is something really best done by an attorney experienced in this. If you are forced to do this yourself (you have a right to do so) get ready to make the local law library your second home.


Duh..... I just re-read your post. If you meant police REPORT of the incident there are two versions of that. A public version that is just a summary. There is a non-public version, more complete that only those involved will be given a copy of. If you are IN that report as either the perp or the victim you can get a copy of it. You just go to the station that the police that took the report resides in and ask for the report. Bring ID they'll ask for it. They'll charge you a fee for a copy. Bring your case number, report number, whatever info you have so they can find the report. I also want to point out the officer himself may have a personal notebook that he scribbles on that he might not include in the official report. You'll have to subpoena that thing to even get the officer to admit to it's existance. Do all this soon so you know as much information about your case as possible. You really need an attorney doing this for you though. Can't stress that enough. If you run the risk of getting serious jail time bite the bullet and get a decent attorney. Good luck.


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## veggieguy12 (Sep 25, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> Where could I find the officer's police record?



If you mean the officer's record of conduct and not the incident report (for your arrest), I would try calling the PD and ask them about obtaining an officer's record, to know if he/she has any complaints filed against them.
Alternatively, or additionally, call a TV news station or newspaper, talk to a reporter or assistant staffer who does some research for stories; they know how to get things done, they love to pull up those stats and background for their stories, don't they?
If you talk to the newspaper, maybe seek the reporter who does the Police Blotter section, usually in the Local or Metro section of the paper.


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## Crocodile (Sep 25, 2009)

Yeah, I'm calling the ACLU on monday and hopefully they will be able to help me out. Hopefully they can do all these things for me.


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 25, 2009)

officer's record is partially available through the public liaison's office to internal affairs. it will be redacted concerning matters considered confidential (probably about 70% of the file).

do yourself a favor: look, you said you're charged w/a felony. so, i will consider that to be the facts. you have already had counsel appointed. when you go mulling thru stuff you're gonna cut your own throat. first, you are not allowed to present anything in court; only your counsel can do that. second, no one is ALLOWED to talk to you as you have counsel. the MINUTE you go playing around in the fashion you are describing you have overtly waived your 5th and 6th amdendment rights (depending on whether it's a state or federal bit). what does that mean? surely you've googled some basic shit on this, if not do it NOW!

if you posted bond (you either have posted it or received OR bond) you very well may be responsible for hiring your own counsel and should've already done that. 

i have some real basic shit on my site Criminal Law in General give it a read thru, keep your mouth shut and you will probably get a misdemeanor. in the future remember that when you go out screwing around w/a bunch of idiots you don't know hell bent on changing the world you get screwed. conspiracy is one of the few charges which it is nearly impossible to beat.


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## dirty_rotten_squatter (Sep 25, 2009)

well, shit get me a bus ticket and I could "say" i was there haha..na but fer real if the only thing that they have is word of mouth and no evidence the judge will laugh..its a class 5 felony and gives so much time, because its a serious offence. it is mandatory to have substancial evidence to prove that you were part of it, or the one who started it...i could say im fucking angelina jolie, but until the sex tape comes out on the net, everyones gonna laugh and tell me im cut off..i dont really think ya have to much to worry about but if i was in ur shoes i would prolly be the same...or just kick back with a 12 pack..good luck my friend hope everything works out fer the best
Capt. Ahab


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## logan714 (Sep 26, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> Yeah, I'm calling the ACLU on monday and hopefully they will be able to help me out. Hopefully they can do all these things for me.



Okay, this can be construed as legal advice. I went pro pur in superior court twice, and won.

First, are you ORed or did you bail out? If you're ORed then it's the least of the statute your charged with. 

Secondly, ensiting a riot is a real hard charge to prove. Most of my friends who have been charged with it initially have ended up with a disturbing the peace or a drunk in public. 

Now, I'm going to ask you a question in a way that you can answer about your case, that will tell me a whole shitload about it.

Did the actions by the cops who lied on their reports, or the people who actually did this who go away and the cops just grabbed somebody so they could charge somebody (that somebody being you), Did the results of the lying cops actions or the unknown people that actually did this result in either injury or property damage? You can answer it, because you're not affirming any guilt and you're actually affirming that the cops lied and it was actually other people. 

If the answer of the question is "no" that there was no great bodily injury or major property damage, (i.e. if somebody stubbed their toe or a leg got broke off of a chair, these are not sufficient amounts of injury or property damage to be concerned about).

If what I'm saying is true to the case, don't worry about it. They'll drop it down. See, they like to play this game. It's called "time". They charge you with something. It winds its way through the court. And while it's doing that they try to build a case. At least 50% of the time they can't build a case whatsoever. And then they come back at the person with what they were actually doing; drunk in public, disorderly conduct, stupid stuff like that. 

Personally I could care less about a drunk and disorderly charge on my record. Disturbing the peace, sure, I'll take one of them. Also, another game you can play if you get fined for these above offenses, make them spend more money collecting the fine then they will actually get. Ask for a payment plan if you get a fine. Then every two months ask to be put on the court docket to talk to the judge to modify your payment plan. A $300 fine can end up costing the system $10,000 if you play the game right. It's called monkey wrenching.

I've been to prison. It's not that bad. But I don't think you're headed there for this silly shit. 

Oh, and when you see the police report and stuff, how that happens is your lawyer asks for "discovery". That means the DA must turn in copies of all evidence to be used against you for you and your attorney to review and to give you a chance to refudicate it. It wouldn't do any good to ask for a discovery now because the DA would have all of the paperwork together. It takes at least 90 days. 

If you want to talk to me about it cool. PM me. I can give you my number, I you can give me yours. I have unlimited long distance. 

I know it's a scary experience when you're dealing with the system for the first time, dealing with a felony. I know the Richmond cops, and they are really not that good at their job. But call me and I'll give you the basic steps of all of this, how it works, etc. I've been though it and won.

Just remember one thing. Cops are fucking stupid for the most part. Most of them write on an eighth grade level. I think the minimum IQ for a cop is 89 and the max is like 120, and that's (120) is blandly average. You wouldn't believe what mine, my wife's and my kids are.

Anyways, have a good day. Good luck. Give me a call.

Logan


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## Mouse (Sep 27, 2009)

Crocodile said:


> Yeah, I'm calling the ACLU on monday and hopefully they will be able to help me out. Hopefully they can do all these things for me.




HA! yeah, good luck with those fuckers. you MAY get an email in return about a year later. they only bother with high profile cases. not that yours isn't interesting, but it's not what they would be willing to intervene on.


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## kai (Sep 27, 2009)

do you not get a disclosure containing all the evidence against you in court in the states?

in canada when you are being charged you have multiple hearings just to recieve the evidence (disclosure) that the investigators have compiled against you including all the interviews and pictures and witness reports.


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 28, 2009)

kai said:


> do you not get a disclosure containing all the evidence against you in court in the states?
> 
> in canada when you are being charged you have multiple hearings just to recieve the evidence (disclosure) that the investigators have compiled against you including all the interviews and pictures and witness reports.


 
it's called discovery here in the States and unless he's pro se he'll never get to that point. generally exculpatory evidence is released after a motion for discovery is filed by counsel.


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## hartage (Sep 28, 2009)

I sure hope croc understands what multiple people here are pointing out...... A criminal trial that exposes you to the possibility of prison time is not a DIY jobber. None of us here are criminal defense attorneys. If you have the means to, even if you have to beg and plead to get funds, get a good attorney. If you don't have the means. Work with your already overworked court appointed defense. If there is anything you can do to make his/her life easier in working your case do it.


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## Crocodile (Sep 28, 2009)

Oh, I definitely understand that by now after reading all this. I mean, really, if I get witnesses and a good lawyer, I can beat this charge.


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## tapes (Sep 28, 2009)

hey you! is there a number i can reach you at? i'm facing some more fucked up legal shit in richmond as well, although i went to my best friends day court date already. is there any way i can reach you besides on here? i looked for you when i was up there for my court date, but i was only there for a day. i'm coming back on the 6th. i'll fill you in on why later.


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