# Why you DONT want to be a Gypsy (from meeting the real gypos.)



## Shwillam

Hey there folk, I’ve been tramping around England the past 3 months and have realised a ridiculous and frankly insulting trend in American travelling culture. The habit of calling each other gypsies. Well, I’m here to tell ya, you never should call yourself a gypsy and here’s why. As has been discussed before, the word gypsy is to the Romani travellers the same equivalent to any other racist slang. But beyond that, the people that are actually from Romani, and have what would be considered gypsy blood are not what you would think. These are not the free travelling, poor, and open minded individuals that American culture has painted them as. From actually hanging out with people who are proud to be gypsys, let me tell ya a bit about them. They resemble some of our not so quality dirty kids and scum fucks, with leaving camp sites and beautiful natural areas completely destroyed, being completely unable to bury their own shit let alone their dogs, breaking into homes and terrorising the local community, drinking copious amounts of alcohol in large groups in public to the point of causing nearly riot grade mishaps in town, to robbing other travellers for all they have. they carry one HUGE difference though. Most are filthy fucking rich. Their caravans are top of the line luxury RVs that most of us would never imagine even catching a ride from, and their bank accounts are filled with old inheritance. I could look past ALL of that if it wasn’t for the one cultural norm I’ve observed from every last Romani gypsy I’ve met, their woman are forcibly subservient and receive awful treatment from the men and homosexuals are ostrosized and bullied if not physically removed from their “communities “ . It is quite common for them to send 11-14 year old girls into town to attempt to rope rich men into sleeping with them under direction of their fathers in order to black mail the wealthy men into either marrying into the family or paying for the gypsies silence. This isn’t some assumption I’m making, it’s the actual cultural norm. It’s considered bad taste to even talk to a gypsy woman who’s married and the women are beat for speaking out of turn. They hunt for other, poorer travellers in order to straight up rob or attempt to swindle away hard earned gear. In the UK off grid travelling culture, people travelling from other countries are warned to not associate with these dangerous and predatory individuals. 

So I’m short, you shouldn’t call yourself a gypsy for two reasons.

A) you’re not a fucking gypsy, and if you were you’d be disgusted by the US poor travellers. Hitchhikers and especially train riders are seen as homeless rift raft that they would rather rob, rape and leave on the side of the road than ever call fellow travellers. If you’re not Romani, you’re making a racial slur by calling yourself a gypsy.

B) Modern day gypsys are not the ones you read about in the history books. If you’re not filthy rich and travel around in a top of the line brand new RV that you buy an upgrade every single year while also holding the attitude that it’s your right to royalty fucking destroy every town you pass into, then you’re not travelling like a gypsy. I would be ashamed to call myself a gypsy or as their non-Romani counter parts are called, Pikies. If you want to associate with the extreme sexist, homophobic, and self destructive culture that is modern day gypsy culture, call yourself a Pikie, because you’re not Romani and thus making a racial slur. However, calling yourself a Pikie is essentially calling yourself a mix of a drainbow, weekend warrior, and trustafarian all wrapped up in a bed of a deep hate for women, other races and homosexuals. 

Just speaking from experience. Please guys, let’s Stop calling ourselves gypsies. It’s just in bad taste


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## Deleted member 19100

The only time I saw gypsies, they were camping in an inner city park and their kids were going around burning the bird houses as if morally compelled to do so... Right on mate! Don't call yourself a gypsy.


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## Matt Derrick

well first off, we already have several threads about this:

https://squattheplanet.com/threads/a-short-explanation-of-gypsy-terminology.23202/
https://squattheplanet.com/threads/the-reasons-why-you-arent-and-will-never-be-a-gypsy.19789/
plus others... search is your friend 

i do appreciate you sharing your opinion/experiences though.

for me personally, i'm a bit on the fence about this. it could well be because i'm from the united states, which, like you said, romanticizes the fuck out of gypsy culture. but isn't it kind of a good think that the term gypsy has a bit of a more positive light on it here? doesn't that kind of 'reclaim' the cultural 'slur' to something that's not so offensive?

in terms of terminology, i think the word just means something much different here than it does in the european area, and i don't think there's really all that much wrong with that. i don't think we're 'culturally appropriating' much beside the word itself, and everyone screaming 'cultural appropriation!' is just PC folks that are reaching a little too hard.

now, i'm fully willing to admit that i'm an 'ignorant american' who has never hung out with genuinely romani gypsies, but i've never heard this 'don't call yourself a gypsy' debate from anyone other than white people who have nothing to do with romani culture. so maybe it's possible they don't care? or perhaps have more important things to worry about (probably the latter).

the bulk of your argument almost seems to bolster the 'ethnic slur' portion that you speak of though, since you have a lot of _really not nice _things to say about them. doesn't that just reinforce the stereotype? i mean scum fucks make the rest of us look bad here in the states, but that's not all travelers, gypsies, or whatever you want to call them.

also, i think too many people go around saying "don't do this! don't do that!" without offering some kind of solution, so what's your solution to this problem?


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## Jerrell

NotSoSirius said:


> If you want to associate with the extreme sexist, homophobic, and self destructive culture that is modern day gypsy culture, call yourself a Pikie



We call that "Trumpism On Wheels" in the United States. Not really. But maybe we should?


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## Deleted member 19100

Matt Derrick said:


> now, i'm fully willing to admit that i'm an 'ignorant american' who has never hung out with genuinely romani gypsies, but i've never heard this 'don't call yourself a gypsy' debate from anyone other than white people who have nothing to do with romani culture.



I sat and thought about this for a while and have come to agree with you: my one-off interaction shouldn't be used to perpetuate a stereotype. I need to spend time with them before I can draw a conclusion *adds Romani Gypsies to bucket list*


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## Timothy Englert

NotSoSirius said:


> Hey there folk, I’ve been tramping around England the past 3 months and have realised a ridiculous and frankly insulting trend in American travelling culture. The habit of calling each other gypsies. Well, I’m here to tell ya, you never should call yourself a gypsy and here’s why. As has been discussed before, the word gypsy is to the Romani travellers the same equivalent to any other racist slang. But beyond that, the people that are actually from Romani, and have what would be considered gypsy blood are not what you would think. These are not the free travelling, poor, and open minded individuals that American culture has painted them as. From actually hanging out with people who are proud to be gypsys, let me tell ya a bit about them. They resemble some of our not so quality dirty kids and scum fucks, with leaving camp sites and beautiful natural areas completely destroyed, being completely unable to bury their own shit let alone their dogs, breaking into homes and terrorising the local community, drinking copious amounts of alcohol in large groups in public to the point of causing nearly riot grade mishaps in town, to robbing other travellers for all they have. they carry one HUGE difference though. Most are filthy fucking rich. Their caravans are top of the line luxury RVs that most of us would never imagine even catching a ride from, and their bank accounts are filled with old inheritance. I could look past ALL of that if it wasn’t for the one cultural norm I’ve observed from every last Romani gypsy I’ve met, their woman are forcibly subservient and receive awful treatment from the men and homosexuals are ostrosized and bullied if not physically removed from their “communities “ . It is quite common for them to send 11-14 year old girls into town to attempt to rope rich men into sleeping with them under direction of their fathers in order to black mail the wealthy men into either marrying into the family or paying for the gypsies silence. This isn’t some assumption I’m making, it’s the actual cultural norm. It’s considered bad taste to even talk to a gypsy woman who’s married and the women are beat for speaking out of turn. They hunt for other, poorer travellers in order to straight up rob or attempt to swindle away hard earned gear. In the UK off grid travelling culture, people travelling from other countries are warned to not associate with these dangerous and predatory individuals.
> 
> So I’m short, you shouldn’t call yourself a gypsy for two reasons.
> 
> A) you’re not a fucking gypsy, and if you were you’d be disgusted by the US poor travellers. Hitchhikers and especially train riders are seen as homeless rift raft that they would rather rob, rape and leave on the side of the road than ever call fellow travellers. If you’re not Romani, you’re making a racial slur by calling yourself a gypsy.
> 
> B) Modern day gypsys are not the ones you read about in the history books. If you’re not filthy rich and travel around in a top of the line brand new RV that you buy an upgrade every single year while also holding the attitude that it’s your right to royalty fucking destroy every town you pass into, then you’re not travelling like a gypsy. I would be ashamed to call myself a gypsy or as their non-Romani counter parts are called, Pikies. If you want to associate with the extreme sexist, homophobic, and self destructive culture that is modern day gypsy culture, call yourself a Pikie, because you’re not Romani and thus making a racial slur. However, calling yourself a Pikie is essentially calling yourself a mix of a drainbow, weekend warrior, and trustafarian all wrapped up in a bed of a deep hate for women, other races and homosexuals.
> 
> Just speaking from experience. Please guys, let’s Stop calling ourselves gypsies. It’s just in bad taste



I always liked "vagabond" rather than "gypsy".


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## Deleted member 19100

Timothy Englert said:


> I always liked "vagabond" rather than "gypsy".



Is there a resource out there that defines all these labels? Out of curiosity. Hmm I was under the impression vagabond wouldn't fit OP's description. Ref Rolf Potts Guide to Vagabonding.
Although perhaps it's best not have all sorts of different names; leads to cultural, racial, class division etc

We should try out refering to each other as wankers instead. If you're a good person, you'd say: "Aye, I know him, he's a good wanker that one". If a shady person, you be like: "nah she's a terrible wanker, don't hang out with her". Maybe we'd all feel an element of cohesion because, in the end, we're all just wankers.


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## Odin

Dontaskme said:


> We should try out refering to each other as wankers instead. If you're a good person, you'd say: "Aye, I know him, he's a good wanker that one". If a shady person, you be like: "nah she's a terrible wanker, don't hang out with her". Maybe we'd all feel an element of cohesion because, in the end, we're all just wankers.




nice rip off trainspotting mate... 



you wanker...::hilarious::


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## Swing

NotSoSirius said:


> Hey there folk, I’ve been tramping around England the past 3 months and have realised a ridiculous and frankly insulting trend in American travelling culture. The habit of calling each other gypsies. Well, I’m here to tell ya, you never should call yourself a gypsy and here’s why. As has been discussed before, the word gypsy is to the Romani travellers the same equivalent to any other racist slang. But beyond that, the people that are actually from Romani, and have what would be considered gypsy blood are not what you would think. These are not the free travelling, poor, and open minded individuals that American culture has painted them as. From actually hanging out with people who are proud to be gypsys, let me tell ya a bit about them. They resemble some of our not so quality dirty kids and scum fucks, with leaving camp sites and beautiful natural areas completely destroyed, being completely unable to bury their own shit let alone their dogs, breaking into homes and terrorising the local community, drinking copious amounts of alcohol in large groups in public to the point of causing nearly riot grade mishaps in town, to robbing other travellers for all they have. they carry one HUGE difference though. Most are filthy fucking rich. Their caravans are top of the line luxury RVs that most of us would never imagine even catching a ride from, and their bank accounts are filled with old inheritance. I could look past ALL of that if it wasn’t for the one cultural norm I’ve observed from every last Romani gypsy I’ve met, their woman are forcibly subservient and receive awful treatment from the men and homosexuals are ostrosized and bullied if not physically removed from their “communities “ . It is quite common for them to send 11-14 year old girls into town to attempt to rope rich men into sleeping with them under direction of their fathers in order to black mail the wealthy men into either marrying into the family or paying for the gypsies silence. This isn’t some assumption I’m making, it’s the actual cultural norm. It’s considered bad taste to even talk to a gypsy woman who’s married and the women are beat for speaking out of turn. They hunt for other, poorer travellers in order to straight up rob or attempt to swindle away hard earned gear. In the UK off grid travelling culture, people travelling from other countries are warned to not associate with these dangerous and predatory individuals.
> 
> So I’m short, you shouldn’t call yourself a gypsy for two reasons.
> 
> A) you’re not a fucking gypsy, and if you were you’d be disgusted by the US poor travellers. Hitchhikers and especially train riders are seen as homeless rift raft that they would rather rob, rape and leave on the side of the road than ever call fellow travellers. If you’re not Romani, you’re making a racial slur by calling yourself a gypsy.
> 
> B) Modern day gypsys are not the ones you read about in the history books. If you’re not filthy rich and travel around in a top of the line brand new RV that you buy an upgrade every single year while also holding the attitude that it’s your right to royalty fucking destroy every town you pass into, then you’re not travelling like a gypsy. I would be ashamed to call myself a gypsy or as their non-Romani counter parts are called, Pikies. If you want to associate with the extreme sexist, homophobic, and self destructive culture that is modern day gypsy culture, call yourself a Pikie, because you’re not Romani and thus making a racial slur. However, calling yourself a Pikie is essentially calling yourself a mix of a drainbow, weekend warrior, and trustafarian all wrapped up in a bed of a deep hate for women, other races and homosexuals.
> 
> Just speaking from experience. Please guys, let’s Stop calling ourselves gypsies. It’s just in bad taste





I agree to not call yourself a gypsy if you aren't one, but it's wrong to assume all gypsies are the same. There are many different tribes and many different minds within them. Even the tribes can be further subdivided. The European tribes include the Sinte, the Manouche, the Boyash, the Rom, the Gitanos, and the Romnichals which you are probably referring to. As far as the Sinti are concerned, there are essentially two groups: the Sinti and the Roma (which include all other tribes of Gypsies). The Sinti do not like to be called Roma, but it's not necessarily an issue of one culture being superior to the other, but it is a question of making sure that people understand that both cultures are different. There are bad people and there are good people...as simple as that.


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## Shwillam

Swing said:


> I agree to not call yourself a gypsy if you aren't one, but it's wrong to assume all gypsies are the same. There are many different tribes and many different minds within them. Even the tribes can be further subdivided. The European tribes include the Sinte, the Manouche, the Boyash, the Rom, the Gitanos, and the Romnichals which you are probably referring to. As far as the Sinti are concerned, there are essentially two groups: the Sinti and the Roma (which include all other tribes of Gypsies). The Sinti do not like to be called Roma, but it's not necessarily an issue of one culture being superior to the other, but it is a question of making sure that people understand that both cultures are different. There are bad people and there are good people...as simple as that.



Thank you for this perspective and the info brother.


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## starfarer

im a ROMANY, teh term gypsy to me is like nigger or oven cheating jew bastard and i loathe it! the amount of wankers ive met who claim "my grandmother was a gypsy" or other twaddle, bizzare. dont know much abouyt teh brit romanies, but there there is irish travellers, romanies, and were ALL DIFFERENT, my family(KUMPANIA) travveled by foot, slept not in caravans(VARDO'S) but in bender tents and picked hops and other crops for money, yes teh did a BIT of crasting chorries( stealing chickens) but on teh whole they are as honest as any others black white or brindle, only 2% of romanies now live "traditionally" and most have lost their language. i speak SHELTA as my first language which is sort of gaelic romany mix, but surprisingly only really now spoken in Australia and largely forgotten in the UK. being a rom mush("Gypsy man) i dont usually tell people. as they look at me differently, apart from slightly darker skin it doesnt affect me.PLEASE DONT CALL YOURSELF GYPSY!!!!


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## coyote mogollon

Dontaskme said:


> The only time I saw gypsies, they were camping in an inner city park and their kids were going around burning the bird houses as if morally compelled to do so... Right on mate! Don't call yourself a gypsy.



that's why I use the american term Hobo -aristocrat, hobo having the respect of a vagabundo (spn for vagabond, another fav of mine) of a low consumption ( save of course the vino), light on the planet kinda travler, who mostly makes his own way without getting handouts. I don't personally hate on folks flying spange signs, that's just what the old dudes laid out: Hobo-itinerant, worker often seasonal, tramp- same but doesn't work much and spanges. 

I get that calling us vagos 'gypsies' is a slur. It'd be like calling us Lakota's, as both were seriously fucked with to the point of genocide. But that's not to say we can't learn from and respect those native/nomadic groups. All my life I've read and travelled in the SW where the Dnai (apaches) led their low impact, nomadic lives, their warriors including women being the last to hold out against us white eyes. So, much respect to all traditional nomadic societies, esp those that have been denigrated, hinted down, 'tamed'. Tuareg, Crow, Lenape, Tarahumara, Romany, the Polynesian group, Celts, the Mongolian tribes, Aliut, and of course my faves, the various tribes of Lupis lupis, wolf.


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## AzureSoul

I've called myself a Roamer since the night I left homebummin behind.


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## roughdraft

supposedly there are gypsys down and around chile and argentina. i may have encountered one, not that i really give a fuck what they ID themselves as nor what others ID them as.

once in el bolson there i am at the feria, a pretty badass little market that happens x5 per week in the summer. I'm minding my own business and one woman comes to me with this long message on a piece of paper about her being deaf and mute and needing money for baby formula and diapers, but when i tell them firmly "you need to look for someone else" i hear about how i am a nasty bastard and all this... well of course i know you are not a mute that is the point of the note.. when you bring me this note speaking out loud BEFORE i reject your begging - then wtf how dumb can you be? i think they must not read Spanish but just tote a note for the wealthy who come down from Buenos Aires for summer vacation.. so maybe a true gypsy?? i dunno


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## BusGypsy

I completely disagree.
First off, which kind of gypsies are you talking about? Scottish TInkerers? irish? polish? travelers? roma?
Gypsy is being reclaimed. It's a lifestyle. Language is fluid. If I was talking about a certain type, I'd say "roma gypsy" or "bus gypsy". but it's totally different from slurs.


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## BusGypsy

Matt Derrick said:


> for me personally, i'm a bit on the fence about this. it could well be because i'm from the united states, which, like you said, romanticizes the fuck out of gypsy culture. but isn't it kind of a good think that the term gypsy has a bit of a more positive light on it here? doesn't that kind of 'reclaim' the cultural 'slur' to something that's not so offensive?
> 
> in terms of terminology, i think the word just means something much different here than it does in the european area, and i don't think there's really all that much wrong with that. i don't think we're 'culturally appropriating' much beside the word itself, and everyone screaming 'cultural appropriation!' is just PC folks that are reaching a little too hard.
> 
> now, i'm fully willing to admit that i'm an 'ignorant american' who has never hung out with genuinely romani gypsies, but i've never heard this 'don't call yourself a gypsy' debate from anyone other than white people who have nothing to do with romani culture. so maybe it's possible they don't care? or perhaps have more important things to worry about (probably the latter).
> 
> the bulk of your argument almost seems to bolster the 'ethnic slur' portion that you speak of though, since you have a lot of _really not nice _things to say about them. doesn't that just reinforce the stereotype? i mean scum fucks make the rest of us look bad here in the states, but that's not all travelers, gypsies, or whatever you want to call them.
> 
> also, i think too many people go around saying "don't do this! don't do that!" without offering some kind of solution, so what's your solution to this problem?



I couldn't have put it better myself.


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## BusGypsy

and actually, also wanted to mention a big point
By claiming only certain races own certain cultures, you're making the claim that a single person or single race owns a culture when they don't and that's racist.
When cultures meet and mingle, they inform and enrich each other.


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## marmar

When i was growing up in Russia gypsies had pretty much same reputation among Russians as you described here. Same opinions were also prevalent among other eastern European nations where gypsies traditionally lived around without settling, or settling here and there. So in my opinion these opinions are traditionally racist and xenophobic, and i do not support them. Altho it is all true, all the gypsies do is make their living by some kind of scam, with different degree of being organized. True that they exploit their kids from the moment they can walk, and use them to aggresively spange, steal, busk etc. But they had to be doing it for thousands of years. After living India where they 've always being and still are THE lowest cast of untouchables, their way of survival is the way it is because historically societies left them no other option. I'm more of sympathetic towards their scam life of hated criminals all over the Eurasian continent. And the spirit of American dirty kid culture is in fact very close to what gypsies always have being. Doesn't matter that Roma lifestyle has being changing, they still are majorly not up to the white societies' norm, they are outcasts and still openly hated. I think if you chose that type of life over what's considered the norm you can call yourself a gypsie and not give single fuck about what the society has to advice you, including on the language that you use.


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## BusGypsy

I unapologetically call myself a gypsy.
1. my ethnic heritage is my business and I don't have to justify it to anyone.
2. I'm a traveller in a bus that lives a romantic bohemian lifestyle.


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## marmar

I gotta add tho, I just thought, to call yourself a gypsie if you are a traveller you gotta be somewhere on the similar level of scambaggery as real gypsies were. I mean, hashtag vanlife full time graphic designer typa shit, altho technically travels but shouldn't call him/her self a gypsy, that d be offensive and definitely culturally appropriating. If you spange busk steal at least, living up to the Roma lifestyle then you deserve to call yourself a gypsy.


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## BusGypsy

marmar said:


> I gotta add tho, I just thought, to call yourself a gypsie if you are a traveller you gotta be somewhere on the similar level of scambaggery as real gypsies were. I mean, hashtag vanlife full time graphic designer typa shit, altho technically travels but shouldn't call him/her self a gypsy, that d be offensive and definitely culturally appropriating. If you spange busk steal at least, living up to the Roma lifestyle then you deserve to call yourself a gypsy.



I disagree. I don't "gotta be" anyway or anywhere.
To claim cultural appropriation is to claim that you or a race own a culture when a culture is a multi-ethnic, ever evolving thing. And that's... racist. Our PC world of calling cultueral appropriation on anyone wearing an asian dress or eating food or wearing dreads is total bs and I don't buy it.


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## marmar

BusGypsy said:


> I disagree. I don't "gotta be" anyway or anywhere.
> To claim cultural appropriation is to claim that you or a race own a culture when a culture is a multi-ethnic, ever evolving thing. And that's... racist. Our PC world of calling cultueral appropriation on anyone wearing an asian dress or eating food or wearing dreads is total bs and I don't buy it.



If you are not a homeless vagabond riding freight in search of a farm gig or better life somewhere all the time then you should NOT call yourself a hobo. Same with gypsies. Just read into the words meaning and history before tattooing it on your forehead so to say. Cultural appropriation is real tho. It's when more privileged take from under privileged and traditionally oppressed and benefit from it. Like if you are born and raised middle class, a white westerner who still lives up to the class's expectation and say, you make t-shirts with Gypsy or HOBo words on them for sale, that is direct capitalization on the culture that you 've never belonged to. Living in a bus is not enough to call yourself a gypsy or hobo.


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## BusGypsy

marmar said:


> If you are not a homeless vagabond riding freight in search of a farm gig or better life somewhere all the time then you should NOT call yourself a hobo. Same with gypsies. Just read into the words meaning and history before tattooing it on your forehead so to say. Cultural appropriation is real tho. It's when more privileged take from under privileged and aditionally oppressed and benefit from it. Like if you are born and raised middle class white westerner who still lives up to the class's expectation and say you make t-shirts with Gypsy or HOBo words on them for sale that is direct capitalization on the culture that you 've never belonged to. Living in a bus is not enough to call yourself a gypsy or hobo.



"should"? and who are you to be doing the supposing? Respectfully, who put you in charge of Roma gypsies AND language?
Again, you don't know me. Who I am, where I come from. And that's why policing other people's identity is WRONG.


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## marmar

BusGypsy said:


> "should"? and who are you to be doing the supposing? Respectfully, who put you in charge of Roma gypsies AND language?
> Again, you don't know me. Who I am, where I come from. And that's why policing other people's identity is WRONG.


I dont tell you what you should do. I was talking in general. And not like you, i actually used " I think" in my sentences. What you take as directed at yourself only shows what you think of yourself dear.


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## BusGypsy

marmar said:


> I dont tell you what you should do. I was talking in general. And not like you, i actually used " I think" in my sentences. What you take as directed at yourself only shows what you think of yourself dear.



don't get what the condescending tone is about. I was polite when appropriate, but I'm not the one making an entire thread telling people what they can and can't call themselves. Don't know why you feel it neccesary to make a proclamation like an authority.


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## BusGypsy

That's really cute, rating me like that because I proved you wrong. I'm flattered you made a thread just for me.


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## BusGypsy

keep going. you should go back in time and rate all my posts.


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## roguetrader

@BusGypsy - is your family / heritage Roma ? no ? then you are not and can never be a TRUE gypsy - obviously you can refer to yourself by any name that you wish but in this case it just makes you sound foolish, ignorant and a wannabe...


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## BusGypsy

roguetrader said:


> @BusGypsy - is your family / heritage Roma ? no ? then you are not and can never be a TRUE gypsy - obviously you can refer to yourself by any name that you wish but in this case it just makes you sound foolish, ignorant and a wannabe...



wow, I do NOT get what this hostility is about.
You don't know who or what I am and I'm not obligated to justify myself. So your point is null.
Shame on you for being racist; claiming you OWN a culture or word. 
I'm glad you're all having fun attacking me. I'm sorry you're all so threatened.
It's adorable how many people here are all about "rules".
You can attack me personally all you want but it doesn't "make" me "sound" any way. I am who I am regardless of your attacks, and nothing anyone can say can change that.
Good try bullying but I'm just stronger than that.


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## roguetrader

with regard to the original post the guy is obviously generalizing wildly.... we have three main itinerant groups in the UK - Romany Gypsies / Irish Travellers and 'New' Travellers - like any group of people the behaviour of these nomads varies massively - some are aggressive, criminal scum but many are proud and hard working.....

some of what the OP says is true - most Roma and Irish Travellers are very materialistic and like conspicuous displays of wealth - brand new caravans, fancy clothes, gold jewellery etc and yes they can be very conservative in their views on marriage and sexuality - but again people vary greatly...

the group most STP members would identity with is not rooted in race / ethnicity - "New Travellers' are vehicle dwellers seeking an alternative lifestyle and the scene has its roots in the counter culture(s) e.g the hippie / punk / rave eras... most people in this catergory were born in houses but those who started early have kids and grandkids that have travelled all their lives....


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## roguetrader

@BusGypsy - terrible logic - the one thing I do know with absolute certainty is that you are not a Romany Gypsy ! 

I am not feeling hostile towards you and agree that you are completely free to call yourself anything that you please, however pretentious it may appear to others....

for the record I abhor racism and am failing to understand why my desire to use correct terminlogy in daily life is viewed as prejudiced.....


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## BusGypsy

roguetrader said:


> @BusGypsy - terrible logic - the one thing I do know with absolute certainty is that you are not a Romany Gypsy !
> 
> I am not feeling hostile towards you and agree that you are completely free to call yourself anything that you please, however pretentious it may appear to others....
> 
> for the record I abhor racism and am failing to understand why my desire to use correct terminlogy in daily life is viewed as prejudiced.....



with certainty... that IS funny. You're asserting you know someone who you don't.
I've communicated with plenty of people with this moniker, and I've never been attacked like this.
Let me spell it out for you.
Culture is a multi-ethnic thing. No one RACE owns a CULTURE. THAT would be.... that's right, racist!

This attacking is totally inappropriate and rude. 

Gate keepers.


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## Prophetess333

Is this a cultural issue? (Not sure what to call it). There's a big difference between some terminology in the US vs UK or parts of europe. Many many people are of mixed descents in the US. No one should have to justify what they are, and it is not right of one to assume one is or isn't.
The term "gypsy" in the US has been around awhile. Go ask Stevie Nicks lol yet can be traced back to the 60s. It's also used in describing music styles sometimes. It's not being used negatively.
I am aware in the UK it is a slur and has been associated with racism against those of gypsy origin. I don't understand why the op & other posts attacking gypsies. 
There are stereotypes of all races. Many do not feel they may fit a stereotype.


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## BusGypsy

Prophetess333 said:


> Is this a cultural issue? (Not sure what to call it). There's a big difference between some terminology in the US vs UK or parts of europe. Many many people are of mixed descents in the US. No one should have to justify what they are, and it is not right of one to assume one is or isn't.
> The term "gypsy" in the US has been around awhile. Go ask Stevie Nicks lol yet can be traced back to the 60s. It's also used in describing music styles sometimes. It's not being used negatively.
> I am aware in the UK it is a slur and has been associated with racism against those of gypsy origin. I don't understand why the op & other posts attacking gypsies.
> There are stereotypes of all races. Many do not feel they may fit a stereotype.



Thank you! I'm so glad someone gets it. Cultural gatekeeping is wrong.
Man now I'm craving me some Fleetwood Mac!


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## Prophetess333

Fleetwood Mac, RailYard Ghosts =


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## Willis

ok how about we kinda go the other way. would you be fine with a british person calling themselves native american because they like the culture?


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## BusGypsy

Willis said:


> ok how about we kinda go the other way. would you be fine with a british person calling themselves native american because they like the culture?



that's completely different.
Native American is a race.
"gypsy" isn't. There are many different types of "gypsies". British, scottish, polish. If anything the word was originally taken from the "Egyptian" because gypsies were supposed to have come from Egypt.
So if you really wanna run around dictating what people can call themselves, then I guess the Roma are appropriating as well!


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## Willis

by your own rules you're totally being a racist gatekeeper.


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## BusGypsy

Willis said:


> by your own rules you're totally being a racist gatekeeper.



? not at all. I invite you to point out where I've done that.
I never tell anyone what they can and can't call themselves.
This thread was created to dictate what people may and may not call themselves.
I call bullshit.


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## roughdraft

eh everybody has got their feelings about their opinions

this is why i try to totally avoid labels, they're more trouble than they are worth

punk, hippy, nerd....fuck it all


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## BusGypsy

roughdraft said:


> eh everybody has got their feelings about their opinions
> 
> this is why i try to totally avoid labels, they're more trouble than they are worth
> 
> punk, hippy, nerd....fuck it all



well put. And not nosing into other people's lives or identities. That's just wrong and rude and I really thought this community knew better.


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## roughdraft

there is no 'this community', everyone here is an individual.


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## BusGypsy

roughdraft said:


> there is no 'this community', everyone here is an individual.



fair nuff. well put. Guess I meant "this forum".


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## roughdraft

respectfully, that'd be splitting hairs. a forum is comprised of individuals same as a community.

so my desire for disidentification from labels, or chose to not bond myself to a label, could be taken on by someone else - "you HAVE to identify as something...of course you are a <this>..of course you identify as <this>..." Same way someone may challenge any label. But i would strive to not get bent out of shape over someone trying to get me to identify as....a world traveler....a patriotic ametican....a marylander....proud...heteronormative...British ancestry...hippy....or anything at all. i just want people to voice their opinions and let me voice mine, but when anyone gets in their feelings it all gets fucked

Anyway, I agree presenting oneself as a gypsy is a very bad look because you seem to be glorifying bullshit. its a 'red flag' that they're sketch or fake. I personally think people here are trying to look out in a kind way and offering their opinions, that it can make a bad impression. I don't see it as a choking out your individuality type of comment, rather as a way of encouraging one to not put themselves in a box, especially when many people - all of whom you can't control their opinions or perspectives - will take the gypsy title as a bad look. just my .02

at the end of the day what do any of us have to lose by disidentifying from a label?


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## BusGypsy

roughdraft said:


> Anyway, I agree presenting oneself as a gypsy is a very bad look because you seem to be glorifying bullshit.



wow you still don't know who I am and you dare assume to know my motivations. I'm respectfully peacing out of this internet lynching, talk about bad taste. Hope everyone got their fill of internet badass points.


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## marmar

BusGypsy said:


> ? not at all. I invite you to point out where I've done that.
> I never tell anyone what they can and can't call themselves.
> This thread was created to dictate what people may and may not call themselves.
> I call bullshit.


If you bought a land and started living of it would you call yourself an Amish? Or buy a sail boat amd call yourself a Viking. No one tells you you can't but that'd surely be weird af. 
As i I said before, if a person know the history of the word and are honest with themself when calling themselves it, that's their own business. Otherwise they just make themself a joke.


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## Deleted member 125

@BusGypsy not getting 100% of people agreeing with you is not always a bad thing. Maybe instead of defending yerself you could try to learn from the things people have told you about the term you seem so proud of going by without understanding why yer getting so much shit for it.


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## roughdraft

noone is assuming anything, just trying to communicate. if and when you're willing, it'll be cool to exchange opinions again. peace


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## Willis

to me it justs seems like someone getting swept up by some sort of slightly misplaced oldtimey nostalgia about the word 'gypsy'.

and for the record i was just being all british at you dawg. feel my teacups bro. annoying people is my culture.


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## Oddy

@BusGypsy hey so I live in a van in england, like my parents before me, but I'm NOT a gypsy. If you came and spent a single day with Romani gypsy folk here in the UK/Ireland you would get what the difference is. If you haven't then probably don't insist you are part of it. It's a very complex topic and your claims are pretty much the same as if I said I sit around campfires and wear feathers in my hair, therefore I'm native American....


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## Oddy

You can "stupid" react to as many responses as you like, but at least do some god damn research first. https://www.livescience.com/64171-roma-culture.html


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## Deleted member 24029

This reminds me of one night I ran into a Romi guy outside a pub, and we commiserated over how his people and mine (Jews) were both kicked out of Poland....


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## BusGypsy

SlankyLanky said:


> @BusGypsy not getting 100% of people agreeing with you is not always a bad thing. Maybe instead of defending yerself you could try to learn from the things people have told you about the term you seem so proud of going by without understanding why yer getting so much shit for it.



I understand exactly why people are giving me shit. That's the thing. I get it, but people here seem to think they know me, or maybe they require a DNA test. And so far, @SlankyLanky , @Matt Derrick and @Prophetess333 have been the only civil people here.

I give into peer pressure, into the communities need for me to conform, and I'm changing my user name. @schwillam, great job, you got your way, you bullied me into it.
To be clear, I'm not doing this because you're right or I agree. I simply want to continue to be a member of this forum and what Matt has created and I'm willing to censor myself in this instance for it. Props to all the internet tough guys here. Hope you're all thrilled, your public mob mentality succeeded.


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## Oddy

BusGypsy said:


> I understand exactly why people are giving me shit. That's the thing. I get it, but people here seem to think they know me, or maybe they require a DNA test. And so far, @SlankyLanky , @Matt Derrick and @Prophetess333 have been the only civil people here.
> 
> I give into peer pressure, into the communities need for me to conform, and I'm changing my user name. @schwillam, great job, you got your way, you bullied me into it.
> To be clear, I'm not doing this because you're right or I agree. I simply want to continue to be a member of this forum and what Matt has created and I'm willing to censor myself in this instance for it. Props to all the internet tough guys here. Hope you're all thrilled, your public mob mentality succeeded.



Hardly mob mentality, people just told you gypsy is a slur, not a pretty word for traveller and you don't like it... If you're actually Romani then you wouldn't be so upset about that.


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## BusGypsy

Oddy said:


> Hardly mob mentality, people just told you gypsy is a slur, not a pretty word for traveller and you don't like it... If you're actually Romani then you wouldn't be so upset about that.



It's not a a slur. And none of you know my ethnicity though you all insist you must. 
But who cares? Go give yourself a pat on the back. I hope you're really thrilled. You're so edgy and woke.


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## Matt Derrick

okay folks, i think everyone just needs to calm down... @BusVagrant you can keep your name and just ignore everyone if you want. i mean, that IS an option. none of us are going to force you to change it, especially since 'gypsy' is a term that is so on the fence here in the states... I think there's a lot of other things more worth worrying about.


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## iamwhatiam

Fucking SEMANTICS! You know how many kids on the road I've come across that have identified as fucking pirates?!?? Most of em have never even set foot on a goddamn boat let alone stumbled drunkenly down a fucking dock drunk off grog with a hooker in arm, but you know what?.....you understand the meaning behind where they are coming from....you just grin and say "ARGGGH Matey! Pass the Bilgwater Ye Filthy Sea-Rat!!!". You don't sit there and be a wet blanket and lecture them about how they are appropriating pirate culture because they have never looted ships for their gold and women. I will forever affectionately remember you as BusGypsy @BusVagrant


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## BusGypsy

iamwhatiam said:


> Fucking SEMANTICS! You know how many kids on the road I've come across that have identified as fucking pirates?!?? Most of em have never even set foot on a goddamn boat let alone stumbled drunkenly down a fucking dock drunk off grog with a hooker in arm, but you know what?.....you understand the meaning behind where they are coming from....you just grin and say "ARGGGH Matey! Pass the Bilgwater Ye Filthy Sea-Rat!!!". You don't sit there and be a wet blanket and lecture them about how they are appropriating pirate culture because they have never looted ships for their gold and women. I will forever affectionately remember you as BusGypsy @BusVagrant



Wow dude, thanks. You made my morning. I'm so glad you get it. Your metaphor is spot on.


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## Matt Derrick

i think it's worth pointing out that words CAN and DO in fact change meaning as time goes on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_(South_Park)

and words can be reclaimed to not be slurs. so, food for thought.


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## roguetrader

@AlienMoose - in actual fact the term Romany Gypsy DOES refer to a distinct ethnic group / race which originated in Northern India over 1000 years ago.... like a lot of words many people use it incorrectly.. you are right in saying that the term is a derivative of 'Egyptian' - it was used by English people when they first encountered the darker skinned Roma... I agree that nowadays 'gypsy' has many more connotations than just race - music / clothing / lifestyle etc - much like the word 'traveller' - but it's correct meaning is very clear... 

(I know what I'm talking about - I'm a 'New Traveller' myself and have known Romanies and Irish Travellers all my life)

P.S in England at least gypsy is not a slur - I used to visit Gordon Boswell a very well respected and proud Romani - he used the word to refer to himself and others regularly in conversation....


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## roguetrader

@AlienMoose - I am sorry that you have felt attacked / bullied - I genuinely want to have productive discussions with people on this forum - please remember we are only disagreeing over the meaning of a word, it's nothing serious......


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## roughdraft

Matt Derrick said:


> i think it's worth pointing out that words CAN and DO in fact change meaning as time goes on:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F_Word_(South_Park)
> 
> and words can be reclaimed to not be slurs. so, food for thought.



this is a great addition to the discussion - but at the same time, it is ...possibly impossible....(I know, great English >_<) to shake the meaning of a word depending on how people want to have it *shrug* does this make sense? sort of like the n word, some folks within the african american demographic decided to start using it as...I dunno community? I can´t say clearly as I don´t belong to the demographic, but I personally believe it´s a reclamation of the slur with elements of a ´piss take (@Willis @roguetrader I know you are British back me up on this) although at the same time, people still use it as a slur and it ,can be, taken as a slur.

In my opinion gypsy will always have a negative connotation of being a shifty scam artist who doesn´t give a fuck about other people. That is just my opinion right, and some other people see it that way as well.

And if someone would want 

to basically apropriate the term to glorify something about themselves, I personally would advise them to choose another.

vagrant is also ugly. hobo, rambler, wanderer, free spirit - these i like. hippy is another one that has just been shot to shit completely.

Same with the pirate thing, @iamwhatiam is on point with that - but me personally I get rubbed the wrong way when people wanna call themselves pirates because well pirates are known for even worse shit than gypsies are known for..,....does that make me a stiff PC prick? It depends who you ask. I cant really help that I try to make sense of things in my own way based on my own beliefs



roguetrader said:


> @AlienMoose - I am sorry that you have felt attacked / bullied - I genuinely want to have productive discussions with people on this forum - please remember we are only disagreeing over the meaning of a word, it's nothing serious......



this all fuckin day. @AlienMoose you seem like a cool person, I have enjoyed our couple of PMs for example. I really just want you to know I don´t think anyone is attacking or even judging you as a person, it´s just a discussion over how we see the term Gypsy. it is not at all about who you are or what you are about. please reconsider how you are perceiving this discussion.


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## troublefunk

roguetrader said:


> @AlienMoose - I am sorry that you have felt attacked / bullied - I genuinely want to have productive discussions with people on this forum - please remember we are only disagreeing over the meaning of a word, it's nothing serious......


But in the UK how do you think the Irish traveller community would take to someone using that term,yknow and outsider(a settled person)?
Maybe some would be offended as that person hasnt known the discrimination and distrust that their community had had to deal with.Same time i'm sure there's plenty that couldnt care less and would just look at you strangely.


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## BusGypsy

roughdraft said:


> this is a great addition to the discussion - but at the same time, it is ...possibly impossible....(I know, great English >_<) to shake the meaning of a word depending on how people want to have it *shrug* does this make sense? sort of like the n word, some folks within the african american demographic decided to start using it as...I dunno community? I can´t say clearly as I don´t belong to the demographic, but I personally believe it´s a reclamation of the slur with elements of a ´piss take (@Willis @roguetrader I know you are British back me up on this) although at the same time, people still use it as a slur and it ,can be, taken as a slur.
> 
> In my opinion gypsy will always have a negative connotation of being a shifty scam artist who doesn´t give a fuck about other people. That is just my opinion right, and some other people see it that way as well.
> 
> And if someone would want
> 
> to basically apropriate the term to glorify something about themselves, I personally would advise them to choose another.
> 
> vagrant is also ugly. hobo, rambler, wanderer, free spirit - these i like. hippy is another one that has just been shot to shit completely.
> 
> Same with the pirate thing, @iamwhatiam is on point with that - but me personally I get rubbed the wrong way when people wanna call themselves pirates because well pirates are known for even worse shit than gypsies are known for..,....does that make me a stiff PC prick? It depends who you ask. I cant really help that I try to make sense of things in my own way based on my own beliefs
> 
> 
> 
> this all fuckin day. @AlienMoose you seem like a cool person, I have enjoyed our couple of PMs for example. I really just want you to know I don´t think anyone is attacking or even judging you as a person, it´s just a discussion over how we see the term Gypsy. it is not at all about who you are or what you are about. please reconsider how you are perceiving this discussion.



Making sense of your own beliefs is fine. Personal beliefs are personal. But this was a post calling out others and critisizing them for THEIR NAME. I'd like to point out that STILL none of you know me, but have demanded answers and "proof".
I do believe this is all a case of people being PC wet blankets. This has been everyone else imposing their opinions on OTHERS. but I'm in the minority, and it does appear that majority rules here.
Y'all won. I changed my username. Not at all because I agree with any of you. If someone wants to call themselves a pirate or whatever, I'm not gonna be the person saying "tsk, tsk". I know I'm a gypsy in my heart and that's what's real. Not the safe space enforcing mob.
@iamwhatiam, @Prophetess333 and @Matt Derrick seem to understand the fluidity of language, the importance of context.... and just not being a wet blanket on other people.
But y'all won. I changed my username, you've all successfully shamed me publicly (rather than just minding your own), so what more do you want? Why do you continue this thread? You won. You got what you want. Another case of internet mobs winning. If it wasn't, no one would have had any problem and this thread wouldn't be necessary. But we're in a day and age where everyone is SO CAREFUL not to offend! not to hurt anyone's feelings!! Safe space people!!
So please, just go celebrate and leave me be.


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## roguetrader

there is no mob, we are not ganging up - again I apologise I am not here to upset or opress people and neither are the others participating in this discussion....

can I get you a bubble tea ?


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## BusGypsy

roguetrader said:


> there is no mob, we are not ganging up - again I apologise I am not here to upset or opress people and neither are the others participating in this discussion....
> 
> can I get you a bubble tea ?



huh. Well thanks. And yes I actually LOVE boba, but I don't think it'll hold well in international mail. but thanks for the olive branch, er... tapioca ball.


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## roguetrader

cool - I hope we can get on better in other threads....


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## roughdraft

lmaoooo... let me also get one bubble tea with a spoonful of turmeric


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## Prophetess333

It does seem like ganging up imo. 
No one seems to care about songs or bands with "Gypsy" in the title.
In the U.K. people are discriminated for being "travellers" those the OP etc speak of derogatorily. There are good & bad in everything. Travellers in U.K. have a movement for equality, as they see so much discrimination. 
In the USA we've the same "Travellers" yet in smaller communities. One is in SC, Murphy's something i forget. Apparently some film guy made a movie called "My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding" and received flack.
Being that travellers of Irish/gypsy whatever descent are referred to Travellers here in the U.S. as well as U.K. can make for cultural confusion as there are numerous definitions for Travellers.

Down vote if you want, i get the impression some do that here if it doesn't fit their opinion.


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## Prophetess333

Also i changed my pic as across my Google's, i noticed people on reddit are screenshotting people & events on this site, not good.
Instance in 2017 someone did to mention 60 + dirty kids "coming through" for some convention.


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## Anagor

iamwhatiam said:


> You know how many kids on the road I've come across that have identified as fucking pirates?!?? Most of em have never even set foot on a goddamn boat let alone stumbled drunkenly down a fucking dock drunk off grog with a hooker in arm, but you know what?.....you understand the meaning behind where they are coming from...



Yep ...

There are even political parties calling themselves pirates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party


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## BusGypsy

Prophetess333 said:


> Also i changed my pic as across my Google's, i noticed people on reddit are screenshotting people & events on this site, not good.
> Instance in 2017 someone did to mention 60 + dirty kids "coming through" for some convention.



Yeah that's bad.


----------



## Anagor

Another thought ...

What's the point categorizing people in the first place?

Everyone is an individual person.

Okay, to some extends you can categorize. I would describe myself as Cis Male, citizen of Germany and (when I work) Software Developer. Because that is what I am (sex, where I was born, what I do when I'm working). That's easy and simple.

But otherwise? Punk, Vagabond, Squatter, Homeless, Houseless, Beggar, Busker, Yuppie, Asshole, Mentally ill, Metalhead, Intellectual, ...

A bit of everything perhaps. But I would never call myself a single one of those words.

I remember a discussion about who is a real hacker (computer related). The bottom line was a real hacker is someone who is called a hacker by people who know what it is. Not self-proclaimed.

I'm not a $whatever.

I am me. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## roughdraft

it's nothing to do with having a 'safe space', it is more a question of personal taste. like, i can't help but think someone who claims themselves as a gypsy is, well, about extra shit. what good can come from claiming that label? anyway i know I may be beating a dead horse at this point


----------



## BusGypsy

roughdraft said:


> it's nothing to do with having a 'safe space', it is more a question of personal taste. like, i can't help but think someone who claims themselves as a gypsy is, well, about extra shit. what good can come from claiming that label? anyway i know I may be beating a dead horse at this point



if you hear a name and choose to associate it with "shit", that's your problem. I don't know why I'd associate a name or title or culture with "Shit". that's pretty negative. I know Tumblr is generally a terrible example but look at the Tumblr tag for "gypsy". yeah you'll see the occasional SJW ranting but it's generally Fleetwood Mac, VW buses, pretty jewelery and dresses. So it doesn't look to me that people using gypsy the way I am are using it negatively as compared to some people who just see "shit".


----------



## roughdraft

i don't simply see "shit" everywhere, or 'just' see shit. this is the thing, shit is what shit is - for me, same way as for most or all people, in theory. i can't say i am 100% negative for simply disliking one term.

granted it is my problem or task to see whatever term in a negative light, it is as well my prerogative. I think it would be undermining to my own consciousness to concede to someone else's opinion i disagree with by way of the simpl concern of not being that super negative guy - because i think i am balanced enough. I can't trumpet literally everything as positive, at this point in time

i dont know if ive ever looked at tumblr


----------



## warlo

First off, the term Gypsies comes from spain, when there was an influx of north-east africans and some nomads came around, people didnt knew where they came from and asumed they where egiptians, so they called them whatever was the term back then in old spanish.. something like egiptano, which ended up sounding more like gitano (gypsy in spanish). 

Second, i've been in so many different places and ive met so many different types of gypsies that to think of labeling under one term like romani is absurd, much worse to think you can assume what they are about in terms of personality or lifestyle. 
I have met the kind that OP comlpains about. I found them mostly in northern european countries, where some families (big families, as in multiple nuclear families clustered into one based on last name) gather to get as much money out as they can and presumably send it back to whatever balkan country they usually come from. But i have also been in the balkans, where they are more established and accepted and seen them farming and living pseudo normal lives, specially in greece. I particularly enjoyed the company of spanish gitanos, lived among them and count some of them among my friends and will disagree to any broad generalization about gypsyes based on my experience. 

Its true that some of the families, the more traditional types do some really fucked up things when it comes to kids and women, but that shouldnt be applied to all, as there are smaller families that fall outside that shit or even individuals that do their own thing. 

As of the fuckedupness, consider they where forced out of their original land long ago and been rejected in every single society they've set a foot on ever since, so while i might disagree with some of the ways they handle family and business, I wouldnt be so fast at judging them. Also, I kinda like that there's a large fringe group fucking up rich societies in everyway they can.


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## BusGypsy

So all this discussion led me to do a great deal or research and reading. I'm really glad; I learned a lot. Learned that culture is not isolated, nobody owns it, and there's a big difference between appropriation and appreciation.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thezenpagan/2015/09/there-is-no-such-thing-as-cultural-appropriation/
"This is how human cultures grow and improve. We learn from each other, we adopt best practices from other tribes. To confuse this with theft is not merely wrong, it actively holds back progress."

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thezenpagan/2015/10/the-cultural-appropriation-controversy-a-summary/
"We need to understand that while someone may genuinely and honestly feel offended, that does not mean that an actual offense has been committed against them."

https://steemit.com/cultural/@liberty.news/cultural-appropriation-doesn-t-exist
"Social Justice Warriors are rebels without a cause. When they are not busy disrupting speeches from people whose ideas they disagree with, they are busy virtue signalling people – or as the French say, “looking for lice.”
One such louse is “cultural appropriation.” Whenever someone – usually a white person – dresses, acts or does anything usually not associated with their “culture”, they are publicly shamed and are asked to make amends.
There is a major problem with this mentality: there is no such thing as cultural appropriation since it is not owned by anyone."
*"If we were to push de SJW’s logic to its end, then life would be both boring and difficult. More than half the words of the English language would disappear since they don’t originate from the old Anglo-Saxon dialects – words like jewel, warrior, budget, democracy, republic, etc. Modern printing would have to disappear, since Gutenberg very likely took his idea from the Chinese. Writing, for that matter, would also disappear for anyone not born in Mesopotamia (ancient Iraq-Iran region). And so would the wheel, clothes, houses, agriculture, mathematics – in short, anything not invented by “your people.”*


I've received words of support in PMs by various users, discussed this at length with friends and family, and I did research. I'm really relieved and feel like I don't need to worry anymore. I recognize and respect roma culture, and I also realize language is fluid, and this thread is just splitting hairs. So asap I'll be changing my name back to what it's supposed to be.


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## roguetrader

yes but not matter how gypsy-like you may feel inside you cannot change your ethnicity - I fully support your 'right' to express yourself in any way you feel but you will never be a 'real' gypsy unless you are a true born Romani ! but yeah please call yourself whatever makes you happy....


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## roughdraft

this reminds me of my final course required for my B.A. in Spanish. the very first day there was a question (rough translation) What does it mean to be Hispanic? (iirc Que es la Hispanidad?)

i had a very unpopular opinion that day. Basically, you're either born Hispanic or you are never Hispanic. the rest of the class and the professor all disagreed -that you can BECOME Hispanic and that it is a cultural thing not an ethnic thing. Boy if that idea doesn't epitomize liberal arts I dunno what does! So here I think this draws a parallel.

So just for an extreme example, say I marry a Colombian woman, reproduce with her and live/work the rest of my life in Colombia. Great......but I doubt if that were to happen say...next week...and I lived for 35 or 40 years...here I am at 63 or 68 year old @roughdraft a citizen of Colombia...that I'd start to call myself Hispanic because what is the point? It would be a big pile of cringe, in my opinion! Yes it would be more APPROPRIATION than APPRECIATION because the appreciation is implied without labelling myself....so most importantly.....it would be a label without a purpose, accomplishing nothing....all my neighbors, my children my wife etc at that point know me as the expat gringo *still*... but that would not be a *bad thing*....i wouldnt need to *call* myself *Hispanic* in order to show my value and appreciation for the, in this example, Colombian culture.

And especially a line I draw is I would never say La la la I am Hispanic! or name myself i.e. HispanicTravelingBeardyGuy on an online forum for example.

all in good fun and in the sport of debate *fingers crossed* Of course we are all entitled to our opinions


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## BusGypsy

roguetrader said:


> yes but not matter how gypsy-like you may feel inside you cannot change your ethnicity - I fully support your 'right' to express yourself in any way you feel but you will never be a 'real' gypsy unless you are a true born Romani ! but yeah please call yourself whatever makes you happy....



You're still dismissing all other gypsy cultures. No one race owns it.


----------



## Deleted member 125

3 name changes and going on 5 pages and I kinda think yer still not getting it @BusGypsy "it" being every very valid reason why you might wanna think about what it is yer calling yerself. It sounds like the reading into things you did only backs yer "I'll take the term back and make it my own" kinda mindset. 

It's my responsibility to be objective in things like this especially since no website rules are being broken, but if you asked my opinion (which you didn't) ide of let the name go and take it as a lesson learned about other people's cultures and how maybe I as being just a bit uninformed . Imo nothing says ignorant American like debating something when yer clearly well...wrong and using the "take it and make it my own" excuse.


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## BusGypsy

SlankyLanky said:


> 3 name changes and going on 5 pages and I kinda think yer still not getting it @BusGypsy "it" being every very valid reason why you might wanna think about what it is yer calling yerself. It sounds like the reading into things you did only backs yer "I'll take the term back and make it my own" kinda mindset.
> 
> It's my responsibility to be objective in things like this especially since no website rules are being broken, but if you asked my opinion (which you didn't) ide of let the name go and take it as a lesson learned about other people's cultures and how maybe I as being just a bit uninformed . Imo nothing says ignorant American like debating something when yer clearly well...wrong and using the "take it and make it my own" excuse.



3 name changes and 5 pages... No I think it's just a matter of agree to disagree. I didn't ask your opinion. I'm not uninformed, just done with being so afraid of offending people. I'm not an ignorant American though I get that insult is popular to throw around nowadays. Calling me uninformed and an ignorant American isn't very objective at all, neither is taking sides, but I'm not trying to win a popularity contest here.
I'm done with this thread, and I am putting the appropriate parties on Ignore so I may continue to use and enjoy this site.


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## Deleted member 125

BusGypsy said:


> 3 name changes and 5 pages... No I think it's just a matter of agree to disagree. I didn't ask your opinion. I'm not uninformed, just done with being so afraid of offending people. I'm not an ignorant American though I get that insult is popular to throw around nowadays. Calling me uninformed and an ignorant American isn't very objective at all, neither is taking sides, but I'm not trying to win a popularity contest here.
> I'm done with this thread, and I am putting the appropriate parties on Ignore so I may continue to use and enjoy this site.



Right on, I hope you can continue to enjoy the site without ever having somebody disagree with you again.

And I didn't call you uninformed or a ignorant american, I stated how I might feel if I was in yer shoes, which apparently I hit a nerve so it sounds like I was right? But like I said yer not breaking any rules by having what I think is a silly name, but having one of the staff members change it for you 3 times is kinda annoying so it would be dope if you could keep not caring what other people think about it and just stick with one for longer then a day. 

You are 100% right though about me being objective, it shouldn't of been brought up by me because no rules are being broken and I'm just giving my personal opinion. I think you have proven to not only me but the other people who tried a lot harder then I would of to teach you something and to do it in a nice way but you still don't get it.


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## Detour

coyote mogollon said:


> that's why I use the american term Hobo -aristocrat, hobo having the respect of a vagabundo (spn for vagabond, another fav of mine) of a low consumption ( save of course the vino), light on the planet kinda travler, who mostly makes his own way without getting handouts. I don't personally hate on folks flying spange signs, that's just what the old dudes laid out: Hobo-itinerant, worker often seasonal, tramp- same but doesn't work much and spanges.
> 
> I get that calling us vagos 'gypsies' is a slur. It'd be like calling us Lakota's, as both were seriously fucked with to the point of genocide. But that's not to say we can't learn from and respect those native/nomadic groups. All my life I've read and travelled in the SW where the Dnai (apaches) led their low impact, nomadic lives, their warriors including women being the last to hold out against us white eyes. So, much respect to all traditional nomadic societies, esp those that have been denigrated, hinted down, 'tamed'. Tuareg, Crow, Lenape, Tarahumara, Romany, the Polynesian group, Celts, the Mongolian tribes, Aliut, and of course my faves, the various tribes of Lupis lupis, wolf.


Dnai is Navajo not Apache


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## roughdraft

what a shame, but i guess that's where it ends


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## roguetrader

@BusGypsy - can you give me an example of one of these other 'gypsy cultures' ? cos as far as I'm concerned gypsy means Roma full stop.. it seems like you just don't wanna face up to this inescapable fact... as I stated previously I have known Romany Gypsies / Irish Travellers / New Travellers all my life and I know what I'm talking about.... 

what exactly do you think Gypsy means ?


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## blank

They bump uglies with hunchbacks.


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## Deleted member 22331

Shwillam said:


> Hey there folk, I’ve been tramping around England the past 3 months and have realised a ridiculous and frankly insulting trend in American travelling culture. The habit of calling each other gypsies. Well, I’m here to tell ya, you never should call yourself a gypsy and here’s why. As has been discussed before, the word gypsy is to the Romani travellers the same equivalent to any other racist slang. But beyond that, the people that are actually from Romani, and have what would be considered gypsy blood are not what you would think. These are not the free travelling, poor, and open minded individuals that American culture has painted them as. From actually hanging out with people who are proud to be gypsys, let me tell ya a bit about them. They resemble some of our not so quality dirty kids and scum fucks, with leaving camp sites and beautiful natural areas completely destroyed, being completely unable to bury their own shit let alone their dogs, breaking into homes and terrorising the local community, drinking copious amounts of alcohol in large groups in public to the point of causing nearly riot grade mishaps in town, to robbing other travellers for all they have. they carry one HUGE difference though. Most are filthy fucking rich. Their caravans are top of the line luxury RVs that most of us would never imagine even catching a ride from, and their bank accounts are filled with old inheritance. I could look past ALL of that if it wasn’t for the one cultural norm I’ve observed from every last Romani gypsy I’ve met, their woman are forcibly subservient and receive awful treatment from the men and homosexuals are ostrosized and bullied if not physically removed from their “communities “ . It is quite common for them to send 11-14 year old girls into town to attempt to rope rich men into sleeping with them under direction of their fathers in order to black mail the wealthy men into either marrying into the family or paying for the gypsies silence. This isn’t some assumption I’m making, it’s the actual cultural norm. It’s considered bad taste to even talk to a gypsy woman who’s married and the women are beat for speaking out of turn. They hunt for other, poorer travellers in order to straight up rob or attempt to swindle away hard earned gear. In the UK off grid travelling culture, people travelling from other countries are warned to not associate with these dangerous and predatory individuals.
> 
> So I’m short, you shouldn’t call yourself a gypsy for two reasons.
> 
> A) you’re not a fucking gypsy, and if you were you’d be disgusted by the US poor travellers. Hitchhikers and especially train riders are seen as homeless rift raft that they would rather rob, rape and leave on the side of the road than ever call fellow travellers. If you’re not Romani, you’re making a racial slur by calling yourself a gypsy.
> 
> B) Modern day gypsys are not the ones you read about in the history books. If you’re not filthy rich and travel around in a top of the line brand new RV that you buy an upgrade every single year while also holding the attitude that it’s your right to royalty fucking destroy every town you pass into, then you’re not travelling like a gypsy. I would be ashamed to call myself a gypsy or as their non-Romani counter parts are called, Pikies. If you want to associate with the extreme sexist, homophobic, and self destructive culture that is modern day gypsy culture, call yourself a Pikie, because you’re not Romani and thus making a racial slur. However, calling yourself a Pikie is essentially calling yourself a mix of a drainbow, weekend warrior, and trustafarian all wrapped up in a bed of a deep hate for women, other races and homosexuals.
> 
> Just speaking from experience. Please guys, let’s Stop calling ourselves gypsies. It’s just in bad taste



I’m from the U.K and I agree with everything you have just said. Spot on mate


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