# Marijuana Heart Attack Risk



## venusinpisces

This information is probably most useful for older folks but there may be a few younger people with heart conditions here who could benefit as well. A study done at Harvard recently found that heart attack risk is nearly 5 times greater up to an hour after smoking marijuana.
Marijuana Said to Trigger Heart Attacks
From the article:
The danger exists in the first hour after smoking pot, Mittleman told an American Heart Association meeting in San Diego today (March 2). "It causes the heart rate to increase by about 40 beats a minute," he says. "Blood pressure increases then abruptly falls when the person stands up. This could precipitate a heart attack."

Mittleman noted that, as an immediate trigger for heart attack, pot smoking is nearly twice as dangerous as sex for a sedentary person, exercise for a fit male or female, a tantrum of rage, or a bout of anxiety.​Personally, it never ceases to amaze me how many common sense ideas are announced as *breaking news* by the medical industry. I have a heart condition myself and there have been *many* times when I experienced severe chest pains immediately after smoking weed. This was always confusing to me because I'd always heard about how harmless it is compared to other drugs. So about a decade ago I looked up marijuana side effects and discovered that this happens because of the drug's effects on heart rate. I've spoken to a lot of other people who have told me about chest pains that occurred immediately after getting high as well. So, how is it that all these marijuana prescribing physicians with 8 years of education under their belts are not seeing the obvious connection between a sharp rise in smokers' heart rates and the concurring risk of heart attacks and/or strokes? Hello, people? This is not rocket science. 

There is this myth that marijuana is completely harmless but I would be willing to bet that there are people out there who have either died or had significant medical problems as a result of uninformed use, especially considering that many who go to the emergency room aren't going to want to discuss whatever illegal drug use they were engaging in prior to their visit. Don't get me wrong. I am 100% in favor of legalization as marijuana is incredibly useful in a wide variety of situations. But what irritates the hell out of me is people's inability to be reasonable about the situation and inform others of potential risks. Particularly in the case of older people who are using weed for health reasons, this is an issue that needs to be addressed honestly by the medical marijuana movement. Sometimes it seems like people are so defensive about their drug of choice that they've lost the ability to think logically and see anything beyond the issue of federal suppression of the plant. I like to smoke weed too but you will never hear me saying that it doesn't impair motor coordination in experienced users, or some of the other nonsense I hear coming out of people's mouths. 

One of my friends is a grower and I always looked to her as an example of responsible drug use, wishing I could be as disciplined, since she has a great job, nice house, etc. Well, last time I went to visit her she told me that there had been a hose on in her front yard for 3 or 4 months without her noticing. One day she was babysitting and the infant she was watching crawled over the area that had been soaked in water. A sinkhole was instantly created and the child plunged about 6 feet down into the ground! My friend had to call someone over to jump into the hole and retrieve the infant!!! So, there are risks that come with daily use of any mind altering substance. It doesn't necessarily mean you need to quit those drugs entirely but let's be realistic at the same time.


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## venusinpisces

Oh, and I almost completely forgot to mention: I actually knew someone who passed away from a marijuana related stroke. This was my dealer's brother who I had met on a few occasions but did not know well. My dealer, who I've known for 4 years now, had been smoking a blunt with him when all of a sudden his brother just passed out. I don't know how long it took for him to die after that but it was definitely smoking weed that triggered the stroke. It makes me so mad to think there are so many irresponsible physicians out there who don't even think to warn people about these common sense issues. Because, after 8 years of schooling, ignorance is no longer an excuse.


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## outskirts

I got what your saying, but I use it with moderation. I don't think anything consumed is really good for you if it is consumed constantly. Besides weed is to illegal and to expensive for me to be fucking around with it all the time.
Also I always prefer to cook and eat it over smoking it. For me it's always been a better high that way, plus I have asthma.


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## venusinpisces

The main point I was making is that there are doctors with extensive scientific training who are promoting ideas that are not just false, they directly endanger the lives of those patients under their care. What your average young and healthy, or not so healthy, pot smoker does isn't really any of my business unless they want to tell me about it. I was also speaking from experience because of having done dumb stuff like eating too much pot food and getting lost two blocks from my house. My dog actually had to bring me home because I had *no* idea where I was. That story is beyond the embarrassed face so I'm not even going to include it.


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## venusinpisces

And if you are able to effortlessly use with moderation, then I am jealous. More power to you!


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## Nagrom

I have a friend who the first time he smoked pot had a heart attack. thank god he lived. he had a heart condishion he didnt even know he had. he cant even be around the smoke of pot.


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## venusinpisces

Nagrom said:


> I have a friend who the first time he smoked pot had a heart attack. thank god he lived. he had a heart condishion he didnt even know he had. he cant even be around the smoke of pot.


 Thanks for sharing that story. I'm sure it happens way more than is acknowledged in the medical literature.


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## Beegod Santana

venusinpisces said:


> Oh, and I almost completely forgot to mention: I actually knew someone who passed away from a marijuana related stroke. This was my dealer's brother who I had met on a few occasions but did not know well. My dealer, who I've known for 4 years now, had been smoking a blunt with him when all of a sudden his brother just passed out. I don't know how long it took for him to die after that but it was definitely smoking weed that triggered the stroke. It makes me so mad to think there are so many irresponsible physicians out there who don't even think to warn people about these common sense issues. Because, after 8 years of schooling, ignorance is no longer an excuse.


 
The stroke issue is a little more complicated than the heart attack issue. I wouldn't be 100% certain that the weed is what triggered the stroke in this instance. I used to build stone walls with a 65 yr old tough-as-granite motherfucker who actually started smoking pot after his 2nd stroke. According to all his doctors he shouldn't of ever been able to recover, but he just went back to work, smoking like a chimney the whole time. Well, he's now in his 70's and has all but completely recovered from his strokes. He hikes long distances on the weekends and builds stone walls without mortar by hand 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. Through exercise and ganja he went from "extreme risk for a relapse" to "symptom free." 

But ya, weed triggers a lot of things...
Heart attacks, seizures, mental breakdowns, all types of shit.
Strokes however, I personally need more evidence than "my friend was smoking with this guy when he had a stroke." Was this guy a tobacco user? Did he follow a healthy diet? What other drugs was he a fan of? A history of benzos or meth can especially increase your risks. I've seen kids on tour have strokes in their 20's due to all the fucking drug use. 

Oh and your hose story, ya thats a major fuck up, but as an ex-landscaper I've seem plenty worse in the back yards of right wing christians. People don't look out their back doors, they're fucking ignorant to anything that's not the TV, computer or fridge.


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## venusinpisces

Here is another news article linking marijuana to stroke as well as heart attack. Obviously, a completely healthy person is not going to have a stroke from smoking a blunt, but the fact that he lost consciousness within seconds of taking a hit is a pretty clear indication that there was a relationship between the the drug and his stroke. Again, common sense.
Marijuana may up heart attack, stroke risk: study | Reuters


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## Beegod Santana

Interesting article, although it did seem to relate to extremely heavy users. I've been smoking for 15+ years now and I think that the most I've ever smoked on a regular basis was 10 joints a day, and that was back in the stoned as shit teenaged weed dealer days. I honestly don't know where they found people smoking 350 joints a week. Even in mendo or humboldt I've never seen someone smoke that much.

They also point out in the article that there's no actual evidence showing higher rates of heart attacks or strokes in marijuana users. Although, given that many marijuana users also smoke, drink and eat large amounts unhealthy food, I can see how that would be pretty hard prove.


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## wokofshame

venusinpisces said:


> T
> 
> One of my friends is a grower and I always looked to her as an example of responsible drug use, wishing I could be as disciplined, since she has a great job, nice house, etc. Well, last time I went to visit her she told me that there had been a hose on in her front yard for 3 or 4 months without her noticing. One day she was babysitting and the infant she was watching crawled over the area that had been soaked in water. A sinkhole was instantly created and the child plunged about 6 feet down into the ground! My friend had to call someone over to jump into the hole and retrieve the infant!!! So, there are risks that come with daily use of any mind altering substance. It doesn't necessarily mean you need to quit those drugs entirely but let's be realistic at the same time.


 
Thats' called "REALLY FUCKING STUPID". No matter how much weed you smoke you would still notice that. Ther's isssues with her deeper than getting stoned, I tell you that


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## outskirts

venusinpisces said:


> The main point I was making is that there are doctors with extensive scientific training who are promoting ideas that are not just false, they directly endanger the lives of those patients under their care. What your average young and healthy, or not so healthy, pot smoker does isn't really any of my business unless they want to tell me about it. I was also speaking from experience because of having done dumb stuff like eating too much pot food and getting lost two blocks from my house. My dog actually had to bring me home because I had *no* idea where I was. That story is beyond the embarrassed face so I'm not even going to include it.


 
I don't have that much trust in doctors... bad experiences in general.

Two blocks from your house... WOW... how much did you eat? I always preplan how much will be consumed, but yeah
you gotta be careful when eating the stuff, especially with the way I prepare it.


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## venusinpisces

MURT said:


> Thats' called "REALLY FUCKING STUPID". No matter how much weed you smoke you would still notice that. Ther's isssues with her deeper than getting stoned, I tell you that


Actually, she is not a stupid person at all. There are plenty of intelligent people who have extreme problems with organization and problems in general. But yes, people who smoke weed every single day do tend to have fairly significant issues.


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## venusinpisces

outskirts said:


> I don't have that much trust in doctors... bad experiences in general.
> 
> Two blocks from your house... WOW... how much did you eat?.


 
probably not even all that much compared to a "normal" dose. It's always affected me in ways that it doesn't for other people. For example, the hallucinogenic effect is very noticeable. That's just one more reason not to do it that much, I suppose.
And I share your sentiment about doctors completely!


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## outskirts

venusinpisces said:


> And if you are able to effortlessly use with moderation, then I am jealous. More power to you!


Heavy use just wrecks havoc on my libido and kills my motivation to do anything. However ocassional use that's a different story.
There's been many a night that I've had either a wild time in bed or started a project from an enlightening idea.
If I smoked every day, or even every week, I'd be sitting around just watching TV and not getting laid... Fuck that! lol
I have good motivation for my moderation.


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## outskirts

I almost had a weed induced heart attack tonight.
I dropped an unfinished dish of dark chocolate chipotle coffee brownies on the floor.
That will give any stoner a heart attack!


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## venusinpisces

outskirts said:


> I almost had a weed induced heart attack tonight.
> I dropped an unfinished dish of dark chocolate chipotle coffee brownies on the floor.
> That will give any stoner a heart attack!


 I think that would probably give me a heart attack, too, if the floor was dirty!


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## crow

Unless you have preexisting problems, I call bull on that


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## venusinpisces

Beegod Santana said:


> They also point out in the article that there's no actual evidence showing higher rates of heart attacks or strokes in marijuana users. Although, given that many marijuana users also smoke, drink and eat large amounts unhealthy food, I can see how that would be pretty hard prove.


Basically, both strokes and heart attacks occur because of a blockage in the circulatory system. Any increase in heart rate can will also increase the stress on already impaired blood vessels, since the force of blood has a greater impact and there is a higher likelihood of arterial rupture and similar problems. This is why doctors recommend that patients with heart disease monitor their heart rate during exercise, to prevent a heart attack from occurring. Any substance that increases the heart rate suddenly can cause problems. This idea is a very basic part of understanding human physiology. Researchers frequently use unnecessarily large amounts of a substance to demonstrate a hypothesis. However, the same principle would remain true even with smaller amounts.


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## Nagrom

venusinpisces said:


> I think that would probably give me a heart attack, too, if the floor was dirty!



even if it was you still got the 5 sec rule


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## Beegod Santana

venusinpisces said:


> Basically, both strokes and heart attacks occur because of a blockage in the circulatory system. Any increase in heart rate can will also increase the stress on already impaired blood vessels, since the force of blood has a greater impact and there is a higher likelihood of arterial rupture and similar problems. This is why doctors recommend that patients with heart disease monitor their heart rate during exercise, to prevent a heart attack from occurring. Any substance that increases the heart rate suddenly can cause problems, which is a very basic part of understanding human physiology. Researchers frequently use unnecessarily large amounts of a substance to demonstrate a hypothesis. However, the same principle would remain true even with smaller amounts.


 
I understand what you and the article are saying, I'm just saying you have to look at it in a logical perspective. Like I know that eating a pound of red meat a day is terrible for my body, so I don't. I do however eat red meat, just not in a large amount. If I did a study with only people who ate 1-3lbs or red meat a day (which I would say is about comparable to 78-350 joints a week) I would definitely find that a large amount of them where at high risk for a heat attack. However, if I were only to look at people eating from a pound a week to a little under a pound a day (lets say a joint a week to about 5-7 a day) which is a much more realistic demographic, its reasonable to say that a much smaller amount would be at high risk for a heart attack.


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## Beegod Santana

...and my college-educated friend sitting next to me just piped in that the average american eats about 300+lbs of meat a year...

probably explains all the heart attacks


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## venusinpisces

Beegod Santana said:


> I understand what you and the article are saying, I'm just saying you have to look at it in a logical perspective. Like I know that eating a pound of red meat a day is terrible for my body, so I don't. I do however eat red meat, just not in a large amount. If I did a study with only people who ate 1-3lbs or red meat a day (which I would say is about comparable to 78-350 joints a week) I would definitely find that a large amount of them where at high risk for a heat attack. However, if I were only to look at people eating from a pound a week to a little under a pound a day (lets say a joint a week to about 5-7 a day) which is a much more realistic demographic, its reasonable to say that a much smaller amount would be at high risk for a heart attack.


I would agree that there is a need for a more comprehensive study that bases its conclusions on diverse subsets of the population, since controlled studies are what the scientific method is founded on in the first place. At the same time, common sense, combined with knowledge of very basic biological principles, clearly shows that marijuana can induce heart attacks in people with a preexisting condition. I've known enough people in my own personal life whose heart disease has been exacerbated by marijuana use that any scientific study proving this fact is pretty much redundant. But I hope that the scientific community will take interest in this issue anyways because, otherwise, cannabis patients and recreational users may end up paying the price of uninformed use, especially as cultivated strains become more and more potent. And again, this information may not currently be relevant for most people here, but it could be something to keep in mind for 15-20 years down the road. 



Nagrom said:


> even if it was you still got the 5 sec rule


Yeah, unless my dog was just eating pig's feet. She likes to take the chewy stuff out of the bowl and spread it across the floor so if I haven't mopped yet the 5 sec rule does not apply. :dead_zombie:


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## outskirts

Nagrom said:


> even if it was you still got the 5 sec rule


No way! I was using my folks kitchen it's an open kitchen which merges with the dining room and on in to the living room,
to much foot traffic on that floor, to much pet hair.
After I dropped them I was infuriated, my mother just calmly said to me "can we cut the top off what fell?" I had to laugh,
that was a serious pothead idea, lol. So there I was on the kitchen floor doing special brownie surgery.
What can I say, my folks love their brownies!


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## DirtyErik

I hate all drugs but weed will fuck me up and give me panic attacks. ruined years of my life just from smoking it a couple times. Thanks for posting this thread


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## Puckett

you will dumpster for food but no 5sec rule?


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## Sc0ut

yeah thats strange


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## Gypsy Smile

Well Yeah, Anything that increases your heart rate can trigger a Heart Attack. Hell just RUNNING can trigger a heart attack. Tell the Harvard's to quit trying to bring up reasons why Marijuana shouldn't be legal. There are many things that can trigger a heart attack to someone who has heart problems or of someone who is of age that their heart is starting to go down-hill. If you have Athsma, or Heart Problems you shouldn't smoke ANYTHING at all. Not just weed. There are millions of things that people do that raise their heart rate up. Running. Medications.Even Sex. So It's not just Marijuana, But this is a very good Post.


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## xbocax

from what was written it seems that with smoking weed there is a drastic change in the rate affecting primarily the heart. With sex and running you gradually raise your heart rate and have many other parts of your body helping to facilitate with the physical activity. It just doesnt seem healthy to have your heart rate jump and dive without ever really moving.


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## uncivilize

RIP Nate Dogg


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## Traveler

Lol at people looking to point the finger at Cannabis while ignoring pre-existing conditions. If your body has a defect that's your problem but don't defame this wonderful plant.

Cannabis has been used for a few thousand years with less issues than sugar has had for the last 50.


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## doghead45

Most energy drinks do the same thing. Niacin especially. Consume at your own risk. Weed is still awesome, and if the only drawback to getting high is increased heart rate, then cool.


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## xbocax

Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I get curious when i meet people that for some reason claim weed to be the solve all end all and refuse to hear anything otherwise.


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## Traveler

xbocax said:


> Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I get curious when i meet people that for some reason claim weed to be the solve all end all and refuse to hear anything otherwise.



I don't have a pre-existing condition so why would this happen to me? Learn to read.


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## xbocax

well then you have nothing to contribute to the thread because this thread is for the adverse effects of smoking weed not an argument to whether its good or bad or how wonderful your health is


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## xbocax

also this information is very important to people that may have weaker lungs or hearts so to say we are defaming it is a jackass approach on your part when the thread is trying to inform people and possibly save them alot of health risks


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## venusinpisces

Traveler said:


> I don't have a pre-existing condition so why would this happen to me? Learn to read.


Nobody said that this was going to happen to you. Before criticizing someone's reading abilities you may want to go back and take a closer look at the comment, since there seems to be a misunderstanding on your part. The point he was making is that weed raises the heart rate abruptly as compared to jogging or other forms of exercise which raise the heart rate in a comparatively more gradual way. This difference means that smoking weed is relatively more dangerous for the person with heart disease or high blood pressure since they will not be able to stop the physiological changes by resting, as in the case of exercise. Again, while this information may not currently apply to most people here, it is something to keep in mind for 20-30 years down the road, assuming you're planning on living that long. It's funny that people here are getting *so* defensive even though I repeatedly made comments in favor of legalization, talked about how much I love smoking weed (actually vaporizing these days but whatever), etc. I wouldn't go so far as to say that marijuana is not all that healthy because (TMI alert for the squeamish) my periods are so terrible that weed makes all the difference between whether I'm in horrific pain or functional enough to get things done. And I've tried *everything* else out there for it with little to nothing to show for it. Marijuana is truly a miracle plant for certain conditions. But taken in excess, it can make you sluggish, unmotivated and withdrawn. And it will wreak havoc on your short term memory. If you've got to have it, then that's your business and it's not my place to judge because I've been there. It also really helps with PTSD because it blocks nightmares and I'm willing to bet that a lot of people here use it for that without even being aware of it. Do what you have to do but don't deny the effects is all I'm saying. xbocax made a really good point that few in the medical cannabis movement are willing to examine honestly. I don't agree with his assessment that weed is necessarily always going to be unhealthy but the point about abnormally rapid changes in heart rate from smoking weed is a *very* important one.


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## venusinpisces

Heron said:


> yeah i get terrible chest pains sometimes when i smoke marijuana too. they're the only thing in the world that makes me panic when i smoke. one thing i noticed, though, is that i never, ever have gotten these types of pains when i was outside walking around. always when im inside sitting or lying down. and it doesn't seem coincidental although i don't have a theory on what it means.


Thanks for mentioning this. It's a much more common side effect than many people realize. As for why movement reduces the pains, I don't have an explanation for this either but I've had the same problem. This is actually a symptom used for homeopathic diagnosis so you may want to look into it if you get the chance. Chest pains are a rarity for me these days since I've used holistic health therapies like the Weston Price diet to heal myself. Chest pain used to be a regular part of smoking weed but not anymore. Ironically, one of the biggest parts of curing myself was consuming large quantities of saturated fat, in direct contradiction to the advice of Western medicine. If you're on the road with heart disease then expending some extra effort to take care of yourself with diet and supplements will really pay off, especially since the average traveler doesn't exactly have a healthy lifestyle. Good luck and send me a PM if you want a few tips.


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## crazy john

thats crazy!!! i love my nugs and im not one to get scared straight but tis is literally the first medical info ive heard that pot can be bad for you. thanks for the info.


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## oki

actually, stress is the no. 1 trigger of heart attacks. weed helps you relax. my bullshit alarm goes off when i read something like this, just because a test shows a certain result, doesnt mean that all conclusions you draw from that are correct. and theres a lot fo questionable research when it comes to this subject, since there are a lot of people who want to prove its eighter good or bad.
but i guess you allways have to be careful with anyhing you do, when you have a heart condition. just not sure you can blame the pot when your heart condition gives you a heart attack.


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## acrata4ever

oki man everytime i message you you dont answer, wheres tom, cell and the guy from serbia?


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## oki

oh i dont pay any atention to chat messages, sorry.. i look at pm's, so send me one of those next time. 
dont know about izzy, maybe i can mail him. and tom said he would come over, mark i dont know eighter.


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## acrata4ever

ok ive been listening to honkey finger look em up on youtube hes like white stripes


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## oki

cool ive seen him before somewhere, probably on tv at lowlands festival or something. interesting looking guitar.


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## oki

did i show you this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwo6HVTacYs


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## acrata4ever

oki said:


> did i show you this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwo6HVTacYs


yeah i seen that. i wanna build an amp 15 watts. but ill have to get a gig at an arena since busking isnt work lol.


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## oki

sounds good


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