# Enviromental Insanity



## IBRRHOBO (Sep 7, 2009)

This thread may piss some folks off; I am pretty good at doing that and brush up all the time on it!

Yeah, so I get this pimple faced fuckstick kid from some tree hugging organization today on the phone trying to hawk his wares for 50 quid in the middle of dinner. I tried, politely, to tell him I really don't give a fuck about light bulbs as Dollar General has 'em 4 for a dollar and I had no need for his 7 dollar compact florescent lights (CFL). So this petulant motherf*cker starts in on how the South really needs to get with the program as we are a disaster area in terms of the environment. Had I been able to reach through the phone I would have shoved my hand down his throat and pulled his testicles out!

It's not so much that I am defending the South. First, when I am dead it's not going to matter a whole hell of a lot anyway. I DO have a problem with some fuckhead telling me what I MUST put into my home I OWN!

I *69'd his number, spoke with his manager and after a threat to call the FCC, as I am on the no call/fax list, they apologized and are now sending out a case of the fucking CFL's! See, I didn't want the fuckers anyway and now, thanks to the Save the Earth Foundation (forgot their name) I have yet more trash to deal with.

Well, I thought I better look into what this little fucking Al Gore was sending me and lo and behold here's an article dealing with it:



> How much money does it take to screw in a compact fluorescent light bulb? About US$4.28 for the bulb and labour -- unless you break the bulb. Then you, like Brandy Bridges of Ellsworth, Maine, could be looking at a cost of about US$2,004.28, which doesn't include the costs of frayed nerves and risks to health.
> Sound crazy? Perhaps no more than the stampede to ban the incandescent light bulb in favour of compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs).
> According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter's bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.
> Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.
> ...


 
This got me really thinking about all the environmental shit. Now, I don't agree with creating toxic waste dumps wherever or sending ships to India for dismantling so we don't deal with it here. I do believe that there have to be some pretty fine lines drawn though. For example, Congress' new initiative to get everyone into the hybrid cars. Well, I dredged this up:

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer because it is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. *This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding *_*environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.*_ 


The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery.

So, I'm putting this in red as I'm pissed about things. See, where does it end? I mean at what point does my land and my life arbitrarily pass into other's hands? A light bulb here, a prius there, where does it end?

:club::club::club::club:this...' and '...start doing that... .'


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## macks (Sep 7, 2009)

Damn, that kid is lucky he wasn't going door to door.


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## veggieguy12 (Sep 7, 2009)

I don't exactly know what to tell you, IBRR. The attempts to make improvements by lessening the impacts of our technologies upon the land we inhabit are often very flawed. Sometimes they do more harm than good, sometimes it's just "out of the frying pan into the fire".

I understand your frustrations and the notion of infringement upon your personal liberties. Of course you want a clean landbase and drinkable water and air without carcinogens. Who doesn't? The question or debate comes in answering how to get that, given the reality of all these things being "provided to us" by industry.

Me? I think the whole notion of working for consumer change - at the bottom of the long chain of resource extraction, processing/production, transportation, and retail sale - is flawed to begin with, and requires more time than we have.
Shit like styrofoam and plastic bags ought not be made in the first place, and if we end the production of this detrimental crap at its few sources, we won't need to pressure individuals to act _en masse_.


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 7, 2009)

i'd tend to agree w/ya on principal. if change is to occur, real change, it would have to occur at the top.


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## veggieguy12 (Sep 7, 2009)

IBRRHOBO said:


> i'd tend to agree w/ya on principal.



*HOE. LEE. shit.*
Mark it down, folks; it's a fine day in history, one I don't think we'll see come again for some time.


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## bote (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't totally dismiss environmental harm reduction in engineering/ production, but you'll never see me applauding it either: I call bullshit on any suggestion that we can somehow buy our way out of this mess if only someone would sell us the right stuff, or if only we could figure out the right one to pick. 
STOP BUYING SO MUCH SHIT ALREADY!!!!!

sorry IBRR, that's a little off topic, but I get pissed too, at the prospect of somebody calling me up to sell me anything at all...


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## macks (Sep 8, 2009)

Good thread, I agree with ya. The problem is the industry not the product! Good caveat from the other thread about the radio towers too. Although the idea that a hummer is more enviornmentally friendly than another car makes me queasy, it's a good point.


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## dirtyfacedan (Sep 8, 2009)

I agree. An old tungsten bulb is cheap and easy to make. CFL manufacturing costs are massive in comparison. The energy required to make one is considerable. It's all smoke and mirrors.


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## hartage (Sep 8, 2009)

Just FYI. I buy those compact fluorescent lights for about the same price or cheaper than tungsten bulbs. .25 cents each 4 for a dollar. That's not a one time price either. Everyday price but I'm sure it takes advantage of some sort of rebate program. As a consumer though you don't see that part just a quarter each and sales tax. Limit is 40 cfl's per visit. $10 bux for 40 bulbs.


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## bote (Sep 8, 2009)

IBRR, I had a job telemarketing one time long ago and it only lasted a couple days because knots would form in my stomach from all the lying and wormlike behaviour. Anyway, I called someone once and they told me to bugger off, the guy's exact words were in fact "I don't buy lightbulbs over the phone buddy" and I always thought that was kind of a weird expression, if it was an expression at all (I wasn't hawking bulbs or anything bulb related).

Hartage, I sincerely hope you had to go look that info up somewhere, but I also hope you didn't.


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## wokofshame (Sep 8, 2009)

if i remember right CFL{s save you money over their lifespan if y{re paying for the elctricity becuase they use so much less. 40$ plus per bulb they say. Not that i beleive evrything i read (personally i think junkscience.com is exactly what it says, horseshit).
yes that nickel mine in sudbury i have seen it and the devastation is awesome if like me you love seeing that sort of thing. it{s just so black metal. check out palmerton PA for the lovely effects of zinc smelting. i guess smelting is all around bad shit.


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## hartage (Sep 8, 2009)

bote said:


> Hartage, I sincerely hope you had to go look that info up somewhere, but I also hope you didn't.



Didn't look it up, I found them in a store up in LA (socal). Seen them months later same price been that way good 2 years now. Dunno the name of the place some oriental food store in westminster.


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## hartage (Sep 8, 2009)

MURT said:


> if i remember right CFL{s save you money over their lifespan if y{re paying for the elctricity becuase they use so much less. 40$ plus per bulb they say. Not that i beleive evrything i read (personally i think junkscience.com is exactly what it says, horseshit).
> yes that nickel mine in sudbury i have seen it and the devastation is awesome if like me you love seeing that sort of thing. it{s just so black metal. check out palmerton PA for the lovely effects of zinc smelting. i guess smelting is all around bad shit.



Should be easy to verify. Regular bulbs are like 75watts. A comparable cfl puts out the same light but only draws 7 watts. Less than 10% of a standard bulb draw. All you would have to do is verify the wattage draw and you can calculate the rest.

So far the first cfl bulbs I bought 2 years ago are still going strong. Not bad for .25 cent jobbers.


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## finn (Sep 8, 2009)

CFLs is pretty much a dead-end technology, there isn't much research going on in that area anymore, instead everyone is working on making LEDs brighter and cheaper (though who knows what costs that might entail). I don't get the environmentalists who insist on CFLs, given that it's not exactly a replacement for the incandescent bulb, you need to keep that light on for at least 15 minutes for it to be efficient... And then there's the mercury. There isn't a catch-all solution, and it does annoy me when some-know-it all wants to pretend that there is.

Of course I carry a flashlight everywhere, so who knows what damage I'm causing.


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## loess (Sep 8, 2009)

1) Love this quote by author Lierre Keith: "The task of an activist is not to negotiate systems of oppressive power with as much personal integrity as possible; it is to dismantle those systems."

2) Read this recent article by Derrick Jensen published in Orion Magazine: Forget Shorter Showers: Why personal change does not equal political change


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## IBRRHOBO (Sep 8, 2009)

i get a 404 error on lierre keith; the other article is rather circular; an ok read i guess. no to capitalism. hmnn, the coin of the realm has been here since recorded history. no activist(s) have ever changed that. so long as there is a product to be marketed, the populus who wants it will buy it. right or wrong, until you remove money (and i wager that will NEVER happen) it will never change.

funney footnote on the inconvenient truth your quoted article quoted. how much of a footprint was created to hussle al gore around the globe and market it? ever looked at his electric bill? i have..............


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## Mouse (Sep 9, 2009)

hmm.. when I got kicked out of the apartment I was living in by the twat who's parents own the place, I managed to accidently drop one of those bulbs on the floor when I was packing, and I just left it there becasue I didn't give a shit.

I win! hopefully that stupid bitch gets mercury poisioning and dies.

but sadly my boyfriend is still living there becasue he has no other place to go.. I buy him a plastic suit or something. he's moving out, she's gonna be living in that place for years. 




but I have to agree - the best way to be "green" is to STOP BUYING SHIT!

all these fuckers sporting "reduce reuse recycle" t shirts they got at the mall are fucking morons! it's completely going against the point the shirt is making.

i never knew about the harm these bulbs and those cars do. thanks for sharing!


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## bote (Sep 9, 2009)

that derrick jensen article has been discussed at length on another thread entitled ¨your ecological footprint¨or something to that effect.


about ten years ago I remember my friend Mark pointing out that the whole ¨reduce, reuse, recycle¨ slogan would make a lot more sense with the addition of the word ¨refuse¨.


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