# Political Correct-ness



## st1tch

What are your views on being politically correct? Specifically saying terms like "gay" "fag" and other such putdowns that may offend groups of people but not using them TO offend those groups of people.


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## simpletoremember

I really don't use the word "gay", but I do called smokes "fags" most of the time, just force of habit. I also use the word "queer" referring to something odd. I find no problem with using these words, unless you are trying to offend somebody. but that's just my view on the subject.


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## whaleofashrimp

i think politicaly correct is a strange term...it has come to mean left-wing uptightness..but when you think about the term it's self is kind of neutral...you can be politically incorrect as a republican if you dont follow every word of rush limbaughs
when you look at the word..it doesint demote a right or left wing ideology
it just means not haveing the "correct" politics
and of course facists and communests made an art out of rooting out the "politically incorrect"

my simple advice is to be open to all peoples and all trains of thought
be open to discussion and points of view that might make you feel uncomfterbal
be willing to be hated and reviled for makeing others feel uncomfterbal
be willing to accept that yourwrong
but dont autimaticly assume your wrong just because people disagree with you..or even hate you for it

aberrant
1. departing from the right, normal, or usual course.
2. deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type; exceptional; abnormal.

it's a lonely world...but being honest has it's own rewards


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## Rash L

monitoring yourself and those around you for "political correct-ness" is boring.


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## JungleBoots

the political in political correctness is not the same politics as left vs. right, or dealing with government or economic issues. political also means dealing with relationships. you deal in politics when you talk to your friends.

given no one likes pussy footing, but terms like nigger, bitch, faggot, gay, savage, retard what not and so fourth have histories and those histories are damaging to people.

personally i dont really see much an issue with the other words, but nigger, nigga, nigra, nig, anything of that sort is most dangerous to use.

and this is where my politics come in. nigga is a hip term now a days. and its almost non chalant to say. yet it sill damages the black population. However un directed the term is towards being offensive or being directed towards black people the word still connotates aspects of black culture that are degrading. This degradation causes tensions, miss trust, and seperation.

and when you anarchists speak of revolution whose going to be held responsible when rather than the blacks backing the revolution, as the have all the right to do so, they instead sit back and look at you saying "fucking crazy ass cracker". 

if you are very very serious about understanding at least this motivation to have political correctness i suggest reading this article:

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2003/N-Word.htm

its fairly long, and written from a communist revolutionary's perspective but its got all the same reasons to quit using the word as an anachrist would.

and ill tell you what after reading it i was convinced and i have since sworn off the word all together. so I definately suggest reading it.


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## lobotomy3yes

I don't use oppressive language, and it's not hard at all. Not boring either. It just comes to you easily after awhile. The hardest thing to do is not sound Western, but is not really a PC issue. The only thing I am not so good at is gender pronouns, (ze, hir, etc.). I always forget to use them, but I think it is important at least for me to do so. If you don't have much interaction with transfolk than you don't have to worry much about it, but it's the least I can do for people who are by default ignored by everyone.

It really, really depends on who you associate with. If you hang out with a bunch of bros it won't be a big deal. It wasn't for me when I did. However if you meet a really cool radical feminist and expect to still use the word b*tch in everyday language, you are going to find out real quick that it is one or the other. I choose friendship over a stupid word. People are actually are offended by this stuff, and it is easy to say they shouldn't be until you meet them.


I'll say fag and queer, but never as an insult. It's been appropriated by the queer community as a term of endearment when used by other queers. IE. straight people shouldn't use it. Queer maybe ("that story is rather queer and doesn't quite add up"). Fag no. Essentially it's my word, and damn right I'll use it. When you've been called it legitimately, you can too. Personally I'm not at all confrontational about this though. My straight friends say fag all the time, and sometimes call me "gay" or "fag", but never seriously and not too often (more often then I would prefer certainly). If any of them EVER called me a fag contemptuously, I'd be fucking pissed and really close to fighting them. Since it is so ingrained in society I don't typically waste time nagging when I can be doing better things. But really, it's not a freedom of speech thing. No one is banning the words. In fact, the sooner people stop using them casually, the sooner they will be replaced by new swear words that don't refer to marginalized groups of people. It's just decency really. There are a few people out there who I excuse entirely, but for unique circumstances. 


Basically it's like this:
Joe: Shit, that guy thinks he is so cool. What a fucking fag.
Chris: Could you maybe think of a different name to call him, at LEAST around me. I mean I get called that regularly by people I don't even fucking know so it gets on my nerves.

Now this can go one of two ways. 
1)
Joe: Oh sorry dude, my bad. Didn't think about that.
Chris: Hey man, no problem at all. I only mention it because you're a a good friend and try to be a decent person. 

2)
Joe: Fuck you dude. I'll fucking say fag whenever I fucking want. Fucking freedom of speech. Don't step on my rights man, it's oppressive.
Chris: Shit, all I did was ask for your consideration. What's oppressive is being singled out and then branded for it. What's even more oppressive is when people insist on poking a sizzling wound. And you accuse ME of oppressing you.
-------

Good discussion btw. Hope that was helpful.


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## connerR

st1tch said:


> What are your views on being politically correct? Specifically saying terms like "gay" "fag" and other such putdowns that may offend groups of people but not using them TO offend those groups of people.



I don't care too much about political correctness, but I guess that might just be the kind of person I am. I'm also a straight white male. There isn't much you can say that will insult me. I'm sure it'd be different if I were gay. 

I don't know, a lot of it comes down to the person, I think. I have some gay friends who have been called faggot or homo or any of the other terms, and they'll just laugh and say, "yeah I am!" 

Basically, it comes down to decency, I think. I think it should be a matter of respect for fellow people over anything else. What I don't like is when it goes too far, a la affirmative action kind of stuff.


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## st1tch

lobotomy3yes said:


> I don't use oppressive language, and it's not hard at all. Not boring either. It just comes to you easily after awhile. The hardest thing to do is not sound Western, but is not really a PC issue. The only thing I am not so good at is gender pronouns, (ze, hir, etc.). I always forget to use them, but I think it is important at least for me to do so. If you don't have much interaction with transfolk than you don't have to worry much about it, but it's the least I can do for people who are by default ignored by everyone.
> 
> It really, really depends on who you associate with. If you hang out with a bunch of bros it won't be a big deal. It wasn't for me when I did. However if you meet a really cool radical feminist and expect to still use the word b*tch in everyday language, you are going to find out real quick that it is one or the other. I choose friendship over a stupid word. People are actually are offended by this stuff, and it is easy to say they shouldn't be until you meet them.
> 
> 
> I'll say fag and queer, but never as an insult. It's been appropriated by the queer community as a term of endearment when used by other queers. IE. straight people shouldn't use it. Queer maybe ("that story is rather queer and doesn't quite add up"). Fag no. Essentially it's my word, and damn right I'll use it. When you've been called it legitimately, you can too. Personally I'm not at all confrontational about this though. My straight friends say fag all the time, and sometimes call me "gay" or "fag", but never seriously and not too often (more often then I would prefer certainly). If any of them EVER called me a fag contemptuously, I'd be fucking pissed and really close to fighting them. Since it is so ingrained in society I don't typically waste time nagging when I can be doing better things. But really, it's not a freedom of speech thing. No one is banning the words. In fact, the sooner people stop using them casually, the sooner they will be replaced by new swear words that don't refer to marginalized groups of people. It's just decency really. There are a few people out there who I excuse entirely, but for unique circumstances.



Devil's advocate time. Wouldn't it be empowering to the word to make it taboo? If the word is considered as an okay-thing to say then the deushbags who use it as a putdown would no longer be able to hurt whichever minority it offends.


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## st1tch

connerR said:


> I don't care too much about political correctness, but I guess that might just be the kind of person I am. I'm also a straight white male. There isn't much you can say that will insult me. I'm sure it'd be different if I were gay.
> 
> I don't know, a lot of it comes down to the person, I think. I have some gay friends who have been called faggot or homo or any of the other terms, and they'll just laugh and say, "yeah I am!"
> 
> Basically, it comes down to decency, I think. I think it should be a matter of respect for fellow people over anything else. What I don't like is when it goes too far, a la affirmative action kind of stuff.



I'm guilty of saying "that's gay" or "queer" in a negative way, which pisses me off when I actually think about it. One of my bestfriends is gay, and he says gay, fag, queer as well, but as I said, when we actually think about it it is saddening that people will say something that relates to homosexuality- accidentally or purposely- in a negative context.


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## lobotomy3yes

st1tch said:


> Devil's advocate time. Wouldn't it be empowering to the word to make it taboo? If the word is considered as an okay-thing to say then the deushbags who use it as a putdown would no longer be able to hurt whichever minority it offends.



I guess it's possible, but I don't see it being too probable. When a word becomes somewhat common then it becomes all the more likely that a douchebag will use it to marginalize.


Saying "that's gay" for example. This doesn't offend me much (I'm not gay really, but I doubt any homophobe would take the time to differentiate lol). It's become a pretty trivial thing to say. Really, calling someone gay is not incredibly derisive. Sure, it depends on the attitude. Instead of discouraging Dbags from using it to further marginalized queers however, it's just made that marginalization more popular. That's because really that's what using the word in a negative context is all about- marginalizing people- whether or not the person saying it means it. 

If you were to start using "gay" in a positive way like it used to be, I wouldn't have any problem with it. Shit, more power to you. 


I really don't want to limit anyone's speech or make us all sound the same. Nor do I want laws to do this for me. And what Connor said about affirmative action, I don't consider this to be an issue of "PC", so you shouldn't have to worry about that. I do support affirmative action in most cases, but that is for another time. That has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with personal politic philosophy though.


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## st1tch

> I really don't want to limit anyone's speech or make us all sound the same. Nor do I want laws to do this for me. And what Connor said about affirmative action, I don't consider this to be an issue of "PC", so you shouldn't have to worry about that. I do support affirmative action in most cases, but that is for another time. That has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with personal politic philosophy though.



I'm all with you on this, I really want to start speaking in a way that reflects my morals- not that I have a huge issue with any of it, it just seems like if you're (me, in this particular example) going to preach equality, you should start speaking in an equality-friendly manner.


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## lobotomy3yes

Well it will come easy to you real quick with that attitude. For me, it's almost like grammar. They're vs. their vs. there. Just gotta learn it decently at first and it is easy after that.


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## Pickles

As for the whole "empowering the word" issue, I've got a buddy living down in NOLA who would use aforementioned words in regular speech due to the fact that he didn't want to get them power by avoiding their use and considering them taboo. He said that working in a restaurant down in New Orleans, he worked with mostly black people, that they'd use the words 'nigger' and 'nigga' all the time. He said that once, a white supervisor reprimanded a black employee for using these words. The worker got upset and told the woman she had absolutely no right to tell him whether or not he could use the words. And my buddy's black friends had no problem with speaking this way. Thought this was interesting.

In my opinion, white people are basically the only race that is concerned with being racist. Try watching foreign comendy regarding white/american people. Most white/american people would watch this comedy and laugh, thinking "fuck, that's so true!" but if they saw the same comedy format reversed, they would be morbidly offended.

I do not understand this.
Make up your mind people.
Just a thought.


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## lobotomy3yes

There is a difference between a white person and a black person saying n*gga. Same with a hetero/cis person and a queer person saying fag. One is empowering/appropriating, and the other is just obnoxious.


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## st1tch

Pickles said:


> In my opinion, white people are basically the only race that is concerned with being racist. Try watching foreign comendy regarding white/american people. Most white/american people would watch this comedy and laugh, thinking "fuck, that's so true!" but if they saw the same comedy format reversed, they would be morbidly offended.
> 
> I do not understand this.
> Make up your mind people.
> Just a thought.



I agree as far as white people are more concerned with racism then many of the races being affected by it, but that's just for racism. When it comes to homophobia though, no one except the occasional moralist cares at all- rich white people or 3rd world poor people. It's accepted in most cultures to just kill gay people, so I can understand why the gay community would have a problem with modern slurs.


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## iamwhatiam

well i'm gay and it doesn't really bother me that much anymore to hear people say "that's gay" or to be called a fag. maybe because i've been called that countless times growing up, and it's lost the malicious edge it once seemed to inflict at times.
altho i feel sad for the young kids growing up who may be trying to understand their own homosexuality and having a difficult time of it - constantly hearing those kind of phrases from your peers at that age can make one feel ashamed, ostracized, etc.
when i hear someone use those kinds of remarks....it just makes me think that person is well.....unintelligent or...immature i guess.


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## mksnowboarder

I'll talk how I want. Words like "gay" and "fag" aren't common parts of my vocabulary, but if I slip up and say something while just talking, without intent to insult anyone, I'm not gonna take it well if some kid gets up in my face about it. I mean, if they're polite and understand that people can't watch every word that leaves their mouths, I'll probably apologize. If they're aggressive about it, someone's probably getting hurt.

I don't see it as my responsibility to check everything I say for offensive content. Everyone is absolutely free to not listen to me.

mike


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## BUMJUG

ehhh i think its good to not take it all so seriously......but indeed be mindful of what vocabulary is oppressive....just strive for the best...


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## tallhorseman

It's a funny thing. I never stuck my politically incorrect foot in my mouth back when I WAS a racist ass-hole. Because I was careful not to.

But after I shed my racism, sexism, gaycism, etc., I started just ASSUMING that everyone knew I was tolerant/approving. That's when I started slipping up. I pissed off a black man for calling a white man the HNIC(Head Nigga In Charge), which when you think about it is the equivalent of calling a black man Whitey. I pissed off a gay man for writing "Gay Pride" on his hard hat, a prank that had been played on me the day before. I didn't know he was gay. I thought I was just doing it to another strait construction worker. 

It's a slippery slope. It's best to either walk on pins and needles, or have thick skin and be prepared to apologize every now and then. The problem is, in both cases, with me, the people I offended didn't want to hear my apology. They just wanted distance. I gave them their distance, but would have much rather apologized and tried to be friends. Their loss.


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## st1tch

tallhorseman said:


> It's a funny thing. I never stuck my politically incorrect foot in my mouth back when I WAS a racist ass-hole. Because I was careful not to.
> 
> But after I shed my racism, sexism, gaycism, etc., I started just ASSUMING that everyone knew I was tolerant/approving. That's when I started slipping up. I pissed off a black man for calling a white man the HNIC(Head Nigga In Charge), which when you think about it is the equivalent of calling a black man Whitey. I pissed off a gay man for writing "Gay Pride" on his hard hat, a prank that had been played on me the day before. I didn't know he was gay. I thought I was just doing it to another strait construction worker.
> 
> It's a slippery slope. It's best to either walk on pins and needles, or have thick skin and be prepared to apologize every now and then. The problem is, in both cases, with me, the people I offended didn't want to hear my apology. They just wanted distance. I gave them their distance, but would have much rather apologized and tried to be friends. Their loss.



It's funny how that works out


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## Poe Boy

Fuck political correctness.

People need to get the corn cob out of their ass.

Seems these days some jackass is going to get offended no matter what you say, so to hell with them. I'll shoot straight and they'll get offended or not.


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## BrainWreck

well its about being polite to a certain level and being a able to respect people and their differences. but people use terms ignorantly and in some cases not even directed to that group of people.


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## mksnowboarder

BrainWreck said:


> well its about being polite to a certain level and being a able to respect people and their differences. but people use terms ignorantly and in some cases not even directed to that group of people.



Unfortunately, it's the vernacular. Try to raise the next generation to not share that slang, and it'll die. Everyone's so obsessed with getting the changes they want right now, in their lifetimes. Societies have inertia in the same way a giant boulder does. You can't remove those words from language at your whim.

Is it offensive? Yes. Do you have a right to get up in someone's face about it? Not if it's mine.

mike


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## JahDucky

I dont have a problem with "gay" or "fag" I only ever really use "gay". But the one word I cannot stand is when people call someone or something "Retarded". It just makes you look like an uber idiot to use that particular word.


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## Mr. Expendable

i say words like fag a lot but im not a homophobe and would never say that to anyone who was gay... i fact i have some gaay freinds who ive had to stand up for quite a few times... i say words like that for different reasons and its usually not derogatory as much as just friends givin each other shit.... reminds me of Cercks2 "I'm takin it back".... but that movie really sucked balls compared to the first one.... kevein smith really when down the drain with the fart jokes


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## dirty_rotten_squatter

What pisses me off is the people who say "female bodied person" or "male bodied person" and all that shit. I hate it when people get offended for saying dude or chick because it's not "P.C." whatever yo. I think it's just a matter of people taking shit WAY to seriously. That's all I have to say about that.


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## 614 crust

Fuck some PC bullshit it is for all the little I'm hollier than though so dont speak to me cause your dirty types.


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## anywhere_but_here

If everybody just smoked a joint and stopped taking themselves so god damned seroiusly the world would be a better place for all. fuck off if you can't handle words. humans just made them up anyways


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## christa

i've always been against using the word gay or fag in a negative way. there are two "gays' in my family including me and as a teen i remember getting a lot of shit from guys saying that i was either a dyke slut (which they were just mad that their girlfriends would hook up with me) or my brother was a fag. Words like dyke, fag. or gay used negatively just make the person saying them look like a fuckin ignorant redneck. I somtimes will say "hey that's not cool at all" or give body language that shows that I don't approve (like an arched eyebrow) and thats if i feel like putting up a fight but i definitely think people should be respectful especially when talking about a group of people that gets nothing but shit from everyone else. Its not that hard to broaden your vocabulary and just use another word and not be a ass.


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## coolguyeagle76'

being p.c. is the ultimate paradox! im a mechanic at our local bike co-op in tallahassee and am surrounded by people that are so p.c. they actually make an entire circuit back to bigotry...
for instance we had a "ladies night at the shop for a few months at which only chick mechanics and broke bike broads were allowed to attend. thats cool with me but at our last meeting (for the sake of p.c.dom) i mentioned that having a day dedicated just to females of the sex seemed in and of itself somewhat sexist (if we're truely trying to breakdown the barriers), the guy running the minutes was of the minset that women were weaker and usually intimidated by male mechanics... so the day was necessary. i couldnt stop laughing.
so not sexist youre actually pegging an entire sex as weaker and terrified of men.
im of the feeling that if ladies are uncomfortable being helped by male mechanics that its the the pitfall of the mechanic, but segregation for the sake of feminism sucks and is unnecessary.


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## DCLXVI

I cannot stand political correctness. I use words like fag or retard, and I'm not going to lie and say a racial slur has never crossed my lips (although rare and situational). I've known homosexuals who say fag/gay more than me, so why should I care about the opinions of liberal zealots? If someone gets offended, that's their problem, because I'm comfortable with my personal positions on those matters. Since when do the punx give a shit about offending anybody? It's bullshit.

... and don't get me started on feminism. I'm all about gender equality and bustin' the ol' boundaries, but my opinions on this subject unceasingly seem to offend PC punx.

Also, stereotypes hold some truth, that's why they exist. It's not wrong unless you believe a stereotype is a constant or set limitation.


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## nick

if you're going to piss off one person you're going to piss off a thousand. be touchy around certain people, or don't. p.c is ridiculous, words only mean as much as you want them to mean


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## Robbie

I Agree that uber pc people piss me off, but there is deff. a line somewhere. I mean if you walk down my block an say Nigger u'd better believe your gunna get fucked up real quick!

your a fag

meaning you ride harly davidson motorcycles


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## st1tch

aha, thanks Robbie.


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## RnJ

I always have travelers ask me if I'm PC before they really get to know me. I guess it's pretty important. I'm slowly starting to catch on to what it means, cause the confused the hell out of me the first time. I tend to use your normal level of PC terms, not like your cutting edge radical stuff...because I don't know the terms or am not exposed to all the crowds they apply to. I think in sum, I'm not anal over a choice of words, but I place respect at the top. If out terminology is not meant to oppress, though we know it might, we are not necessarily being mean; but we sure are being inconsiderate.


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## Murf

My personal opinion, being politically correct is for gayfags . I think that any kind of cencorship is just out of the question. Why would one choose to limit theirselfs under a pre-determined not as not to offend? Speak your mind , and speak it right. I mean I can obviously see the need for limiting certain words at certain times , for example you wouldnt call a judge homeboy and slap his hand. Be respectable , try not to offend people , but still if your friends being gay , call him a fag. Too much though gets put into simple things. Just be respectfull and have good thoughts. Youll be fine.


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## wartomods

Are you PC, no i am a Mac


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## wartomods

what the hell is this pc thing , sounds like some stupid pseudo left shit.


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## tallhorseman

So damn true!!!



anywhere_but_here said:


> if everybody just smoked a joint and stopped taking themselves so god damned seroiusly the world would be a better place for all. Fuck off if you can't handle words. Humans just made them up anyways


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## Mouse

political correctness is pretty fucking gay in my book.

I dig bad words. I like upsetting people. that's bout it.

I wont go outta my way to offend people but if I feel the need I will bust out the words i know will cut a person deep. Not gonna walk on egg shells thinking I gotta be worried I'm gonna upset someone either. Grow up. 

though I do get worried at times if I say stuff about retards or down syndrome and shit if I know the person has kids I've never met. That, I would find to be rude. 

never met a gay person that takes personal offense from someone using "gay" in front of them. I don't like uppity fags anyhow so I wouldn't care if they did get upset. 

It's all personal pref i guess.


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## readyg

Most P.C. kids have more rules than ultra-conservative Christians, and seem to not live in the real world with the rest of us. 

Life isn't all rainbows and vegan cookies.


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## Mouse

VEGAN RAINBOW COOKIES FOR EVERYONE!*


(*certain restrictions apply)


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## connerR

Can i hav vegan rainbow cooki ?


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## stanktank

I say all sorts of non-PC shit to my friends, being like waddup nigga, or callin them fag or some shit like that. i don't really get why some people have the right to use some words and the rest of us don't. Only blacks can say nigger, (although i've heard mad hispanics use it too), gay folks are only allowed to say fag? can only retarded folks call each other retards? Is it once you've been offended by a word you can use it? what the fuck is that? that's some gay shit if you ask me.

Me, i don't go around shouting those words all day just cause i know in some places that might have very bad consequences and i don't go outta my way to be a dick. i try to be respectful as the next guy but damn, like a bunch of folks said, stop taking yourself so seriously. 

I guess it comes down to the fact that in some crowds you can say about anything you want. other crowds will kill you for what you say. you just gotta be sensitive of that...if you wanna stay alive.


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## Mouse

connerR said:


> Can i hav vegan rainbow cooki ?



i feel your existence may offend someone from a random cultural/sexual/social background that is different from your own.

So, NO. 

fuck off whitey!


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## 614 crust

hahaha


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## connerR

Mouse said:


> i feel your existence may offend someone from a random cultural/sexual/social background that is different from your own.
> 
> So, NO.
> 
> fuck off whitey!


 

omg wut im gonna make a protest now brb gotta go shopping for black clothes and bandanas omg u r DEAD err i mean im all for freedum of opinoin but ur dum


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## dirty_rotten_squatter

Mouse said:


> political correctness is pretty fucking gay in my book.
> 
> I dig bad words. I like upsetting people. that's bout it.
> 
> I wont go outta my way to offend people but if I feel the need I will bust out the words i know will cut a person deep. Not gonna walk on egg shells thinking I gotta be worried I'm gonna upset someone either. Grow up.
> 
> though I do get worried at times if I say stuff about retards or down syndrome and shit if I know the person has kids I've never met. That, I would find to be rude.
> 
> never met a gay person that takes personal offense from someone using "gay" in front of them. I don't like uppity fags anyhow so I wouldn't care if they did get upset.
> 
> It's all personal pref i guess.


 
Lmfao this is how I feel, except at times I will do it on purpose. Fuck keeping my mouth shut. If you take offense at something I say it's your problem not mine, especially along the lines of p.c.


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## Mouse

connerR said:


> omg wut im gonna make a protest now brb gotta go shopping for black clothes and bandanas omg u r DEAD err i mean im all for freedum of opinoin but ur dum



I'll let the town folks know so my friends can counter-protest your protest in a separate location near to your protest but not too close as to scare the general population. 

I'll be sure to file all the legal permits so my protest wont get shut down until the time set on the paper work. you, I assume, will fail to do this and will be kicked off the streets and I WILL WIN!


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## connerR

Too late. I've already filed for two days of permits. I have an extra permit, too, just in the event your protest protest shows up, because I have a backup protest to protest your protest protesting my protest. All of my protestors are the future of political protesting, I grew them myself in my secret lab, feeding them Four Loko and dumpstered pizza every day of the week until they became unstoppable. Did you know my protestors can chant "up da punx", "fuck the system", and "no war but class war" 1000 times per minute?


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## Mouse

foiled once again!

that probably ends up sounding more like the hum of bees once you get them started... dirty, booze fueled bees.


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## connerR

Mouse said:


> foiled once again!
> 
> that probably ends up sounding more like the hum of bees once you get them started... dirty, booze fueled bees.



It's MADNESS, that's what it is.


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## Unkas

I don't care about political correctness. Maybe a bit in special situations I have to care about the words I'm using, but not at all in my thoughts.


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## doghead45

This is how Bob's day at work goes. I screw up an eqaution. "That's wrong Bob." "Shut up queer!" "Hey, you're the one who sucks at math you dumb coon." 

Someone had an accident and almost lost their hand. The fire trucks and military police show up to investigate/take the poor bastard to hospital. The token black guy in the group leaves for w/e reason. Someone says "Hey man, we noticed you got lost when the mp's rolled up."
The token black guy responds, "hahaha, you fuckers."
The injured person was also made fun of relentlessly.

Something breaks. A native american is present. "Hey shitting squirrel, send a smoke signal to the toolroom to get that special tool."
Indian replies, "Hey man, that's not cool." Everyone turn and looks with their predator eyes at the prey who has just exposed a weakness. That was year ago. He gets called "SS" every now and then.
Also soulless ginger,
dirty mexican
runaway frenchie
filthy gook
white boy don't get it
pretty fly for white guy
etc. etc.
And then everyone sits through a 2hour class on equal opportunity which just refreshes everyone's awareness that there are other races in the room to make fun of.


----------



## Gudj

What the fuck is that post for?
Are you trying to shock us or something by showing us how real and awesome your group of racist ass friends are?
This whole thread is stupid as fuck and just got alot stupider. 



doghead45 said:


> This is how Bob's day at work goes. I screw up an eqaution. "That's wrong Bob." "Shut up queer!" "Hey, you're the one who sucks at math you dumb coon."
> 
> Someone had an accident and almost lost their hand. The fire trucks and military police show up to investigate/take the poor bastard to hospital. The token black guy in the group leaves for w/e reason. Someone says "Hey man, we noticed you got lost when the mp's rolled up."
> The token black guy responds, "hahaha, you fuckers."
> The injured person was also made fun of relentlessly.
> 
> Something breaks. A native american is present. "Hey shitting squirrel, send a smoke signal to the toolroom to get that special tool."
> Indian replies, "Hey man, that's not cool." Everyone turn and looks with their predator eyes at the prey who has just exposed a weakness. That was year ago. He gets called "SS" every now and then.
> Also soulless ginger,
> dirty mexican
> runaway frenchie
> filthy gook
> white boy don't get it
> pretty fly for white guy
> etc. etc.
> And then everyone sits through a 2hour class on equal opportunity which just refreshes everyone's awareness that there are other races in the room to make fun of.


----------



## RideMoreTrains

i don't have time for PC holier than thou idiots. i worked in kitchens/restaurants for a portion of my life. if your PC you wont last as a line cook. insults are thrown around loosely. guys insult each others race, sexual preference, mothers, country, hair cut,etc. generally depending on the crew nothing is off limits (wife and kids usually are).. however, at the end of the day you were accepted by how well you threw insults back and if you were a hard worker. i think we give those words less power by not giving them any at all.


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## Diagaro

Its all fun and games till someone gets there feelings hurt.
Cry some more. I'm a redneck cracker


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## drun_ken

what the fuck ever happend to sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me....pansy ass bastards...once again..........fukin kids today


----------



## squabblez

i say nigger, spic and all that. i have black and M punk friends so obviously thats politically incorrect. remember kids were MANIMALS. im racist against humanoids...and centipedes n pigeons.


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## Nelco

I'm a whitey..."snow flake" nigger...that was once married to a slank eyed chigger...so I wouldn't know shit about how to be "pc" verbally..


----------



## CXR1037

nelco said:


> i'm a whitey..."snow flake" nigger...that was once married to a slank eyed chigger...so i wouldn't know shit about how to be "pc" verbally..


 
omfgu whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

my earrssssss 

neeeeeed to read my crimethinc.!!!!!! Ahhhhh


----------



## plagueship

i think it really all comes down to context.

all those people who like to flip out about everything everyone else says are usually a bunch of jerkoffs who want to feel morally and politically superior to everyone around them. especially when they don't actually do anything else socially meaningful with their lives. i have no interest in associating with such people and there seems to be a bunch of them in practically every punk scene.


----------



## venusinpisces

plagueship said:


> Speaking of political correctness, does anyone else like Lisa Lampanelli? She takes it a bit far sometimes, but OMG when she said subpoena I was in stitches!


----------



## whaleofashrimp

heres something all of us..any race any political affiliation..and even feminests can agree on...joan rivers has a funny vagina


----------



## venusinpisces

plagueship said:


> i think it really all comes down to context.
> .


I agree with this. I don't think there should ever be "forbidden" words because rules just give those words more power. The Lisa Lampanelli video I posted is funny because you can tell she's not actually hateful. If she was, it would just be depressing and tedious. On the other hand, I also knew a squatter guy who was always making jokes about beating up women and complaining about political correctness. I let it go at the time because his jokes actually were kind of funny. Later he told me that he had given his girlfriend a concussion after throwing her off a truck bed. I was also present when he stabbed a black guy for not giving him a cigarette while calling him nigger the whole time. So I think it really depends on the situation and the perspective of the person talking. Jokes are one thing, but actual bigotry is something very different. I don't care what words somebody uses or what they joke about as long as they're actually just joking.


----------



## RnJ

I can concede that words need to be taken in context.

Why I can't I say the same about actions? I mean, if I rape a girl, but I'm just making a light joke and don't actually hate her, is that fine?

The effects of our actions are just as important as the intention of them.
I'd argue that although legalistic PCism itself does not solve the problem, how the things we say are perceived and experienced are just as important as (if not more than) our intentions behind saying them.

You don't have to be PC to be a decent human being and have respect for people.
But you DO have to be considerate, and you do have to forgo the freedom "do whatever you want" sometimes, in order to not hurt people (That's the part that we don't like!). Don't be self-interested, don't be an ass.


----------



## Heron

i'd call someone a fag or a pussy (not just for no reason ofc) but i'd also defend a gay or a gal if they were getting hated on, let alone hurt. fuck political correctness but i practice, um, personal correctness you could say.


----------



## venusinpisces

In my experience, most people who throw around un pc words aren't out there raping women or rounding up lynch mobs. But then there are those few people who use humor as a way to cover up genuinely hateful personalities.
It's important to differentiate between people who take political correctness to unnecessary extremes, because there are a* lot *of them out there policing language and being annoying, and people who just don't appreciate bigotry. For example, a lot of social conservatives talk about political correctness as a way to justify teaching their children that all gay people have something fundamentally wrong with them. I don't want anything to do with people like this and, if this makes me politically correct, oh well. I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that being unfashionable is not too disconcerting. Again, it's very context dependent since words and phrases are only as meaningful as the way they're used. I doubt the majority of people who complain about political correctness here are bigoted, though. I have some pretty violent artwork that many would interpret as misogynist, but I know where I'm coming from is very different than their interpretation--so PC people get on my nerves sometimes too.


----------



## Nelco

I just don't give a fuck about systematically, teaching myself, how to speak like a pompus asshole.


----------



## venusinpisces

Nelco said:


> I just don't give a fuck about systematically, teaching myself, how to speak like a pompus asshole.


 
I'm not sure if that comment was directed at me or not, but nothing in my comment was about looking down on anyone--except for maybe rich republicans, which doesn't exactly describe too many people on this board.


----------



## venusinpisces

And I suppose it's not a great idea to look down on *anyone* but right wingers are my weakness at the moment. I'll spare everyone the details.


----------



## Nelco

naw dude
we're good
i'm just mouthy on politics and restrictions..
i think your alright


----------



## venusinpisces

No problem. PC people suck--oops, that language could be degrading to the receptive partner.  Actually, I really don't like cursing in public because you never know when you could be around someone with delicate sensibilities. That's more of a Southern thing though since I was raised that way, and by Reaganites, at that. I don't really hate right wingers, just the rich ones in Congress. Not too fond of the Democrats either. It's worth remembering that this is where the *real* political correctness comes from, from politicians who are sending billions to Israel to help construct a virtual concentration camp around Palestine while Americans are living in poverty. Vegan antiracist feminists may be a bit annoying but they have nothing on people like this.


----------



## venusinpisces

RnJ said:


> The effects of our actions are just as important as the intention of them..


Another good point. I always try to be aware of my audience before spouting off. It might seem uncool but I really don't like to hurt people's feelings if it can be avoided. And it's a stereotype but there really are good people in every group. My mom used to have all her feminist studies department friends over for pot lucks and I have to admit they made some great vegan food.  Can't say I feel more comfortable around them than the bible thumper side of the family, though.


----------



## venusinpisces

JungleBoots said:


> the political in political correctness is not the same politics as left vs. right, or dealing with government or economic issues. political also means dealing with relationships. you deal in politics when you talk to your friends.
> 
> given no one likes pussy footing, but terms like nigger, bitch, faggot, gay, savage, retard what not and so fourth have histories and those histories are damaging to people..


I kind of wish I hadn't posted in this thread to begin with because I can actually sympathize with this perspective as well since all these words really can be used to hurt people, depending on how they're used. But in the real world, people are not so nice and kind so you have to find a way to deal with those who haven't been raised that way, and setting up rules usually just makes things worse. I am officially stepping out of this thread now.


----------



## NyxNomasters

Fuck pc. I do what I want. I say what I want. 

My opinion is, if someone is offended, that is their problem to deal with.


----------



## Heron

NyxNomasters said:


> My opinion is, if someone is offended, that is their problem to deal with.


 
oh yeah that's the other thing about offense and shit. it's not really anyone's responsibility to not offend someone. most of what people get offended over is total bullshit. people are so self-important.


----------



## plagueship

here's a theory: racist/sexist/etc language is a symptom of racism/sexism/etc far more than it is a cause.

i don't consider myself pc at all, but i also don't use a lot of language that many people would consider "un-pc". i do let slip the occasional "that's gay" or "what a bitch" around people i'm certain won't take it the wrong way (although i have wondered for a while what is so much more sexist about 'bitch' than words like 'dick' or 'asshole' which are generally only applied to men?). i used to say 'retarded' for 'stupid' a lot but nowadays one of my closest friends has a little brother who is actually, literally, in a medical sense retarded... so that kind of put that in perspective for me... if someone in my family had a birth defect i really wouldn't appreciate people being shitty about it...

anyway i guess what i'm saying is i'm really not down with people being prejudiced but i think there is a way that prejudicial language can be used in a sort of ironic way or just express a warped sense of humor and lack of uptightness...


----------



## thisisme

Pickles said:


> As for the whole "empowering the word" issue, I've got a buddy living down in NOLA who would use aforementioned words in regular speech due to the fact that he didn't want to get them power by avoiding their use and considering them taboo. He said that working in a restaurant down in New Orleans, he worked with mostly black people, that they'd use the words 'nigger' and 'nigga' all the time. He said that once, a white supervisor reprimanded a black employee for using these words. The worker got upset and told the woman she had absolutely no right to tell him whether or not he could use the words. And my buddy's black friends had no problem with speaking this way. Thought this was interesting.
> 
> In my opinion, white people are basically the only race that is concerned with being racist. Try watching foreign comendy regarding white/american people. Most white/american people would watch this comedy and laugh, thinking "fuck, that's so true!" but if they saw the same comedy format reversed, they would be morbidly offended.
> 
> I do not understand this.
> Make up your mind people.
> Just a thought.


Regarding the racism aspect i have a good number of friends who are the same way. They use the N word on a regular to describe anyone who is ignorant or stupid regularily refer to eachother that way. All of it jokingly of course. they have no shame or qualms about it and figure why give so much power to a word. They dont consider themselves racist. After listening to their points i can see where theyre coming from. Doesnt going out of your way to make sure youre being pc with certain groups of people and being so concerned with how you may accidentally offend them just put up more barriers? if people would just chill out a little things would be alot less tense. and as mentioned in my personal experience as well ive seen way more white people be offended and concerned about it than anyone else. most black people think its funny that ive come across. 
i personally dont feel its my place to "take back the word" so i dont use it. but i think what it really comes down to in the end is intention. If ur saying something to intentionally discriminate or belittle someone or a certain group of people thats one thing but otherwise i think people just need to loosen their panties a little and not get so bent out of shape about words. i dunno thats just my opinion. why am i not asleep yet? i dont know


----------



## shiftingGEARS

NyxNomasters said:


> Fuck pc. I do what I want. I say what I want.
> 
> My opinion is, if someone is offended, that is their problem to deal with.



true that, people need to remove the sticks from their ass, also clean that sand from their vagina's and or nutsack


----------



## black

TL;DR people rail against political correctness because they don't want to stop being assholes most of the time, MOST of the time.

depends on the context. when alt-righters, apolitical crusties, moshcore bros, and generally any right leaning or near-right-leaning/politically "selfish"(couldn't really think of a better word) person says "politically correct" they really mean "empathetic". they do not want to be forced to give a shit about marginalization that doesn't affect them personally. I can understand that there are folks who really go too far with policing others behavior, way too far, but the real idea behind political correctness is simple empathy for the plight of oppressed minorities whether it be race, gender identity, sexuality, etc.


----------



## black

also, as a white person, reappropriating the n word is none of your business and there is no excuse for that.


----------



## Beegod Santana

Language ain't black and white and it's all about context, situation, reception and intent. I call cops faggots all the time and you can't stop me.


----------



## Rob Nothing

There is emotional intelligence and then there is political correctness which is essentially the religion of people with no emotional intelligence that wish they had but never can and so PC manifests in phases, like fad diets and candidacies and memes. And social media.


----------



## black

Rob Nothing said:


> There is emotional intelligence and then there is political correctness which is essentially the religion of people with no emotional intelligence that wish they had but never can and so PC manifests in phases, like fad diets and candidacies and memes. And social media.


would you mind explaining in detail how political correctness is associated with a lack emotional intelligence? while I do disagree this isn't an attack btw im genuinely interested in a further explanation.


----------



## Hillbilly Castro

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lupus-dragonowl-against-identity-politics

READ THIS because it is the best evisceration of identity politics I've seen that is concise and easy to read.

Also read Nietzsche; slave morality is written all over the IdPol crowd and their ideas, as well as a Christian guilt complex.


----------



## Rob Nothing

black said:


> would you mind explaining in detail how political correctness is associated with a lack emotional intelligence? while I do disagree this isn't an attack btw im genuinely interested in a further explanation.



A lot of my more oppinionated posts are written from a kinda take-it-or-leave-it perspective.. I don't expect you to see where I'm coming from automatically and neither am I going to disclaim myself every post with an essay or autobiography. 

I'm glad identity politics has been brought up because that is basically on track with what I was thinking.. most people by my .... educated guess... do not know themselves well enough to formulate their own opinions autonomous of what their consuming minds find in the media. . . Political correctness is a force-fed phenomena, it doesn't spring, overall, from the reasoning mind.. it comes from a collective baser vanity. Resentiment, exactly.


----------



## Notmyname

Hillbilly Castro said:


> https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lupus-dragonowl-against-identity-politics
> 
> READ THIS because it is the best evisceration of identity politics I've seen that is concise and easy to read.
> 
> Also read Nietzsche; slave morality is written all over the IdPol crowd and their ideas, as well as a Christian guilt complex.


Could only skim it cause my phone's gonna die, but it does seem like a good read. If only yuppies cared to read it lol


----------



## black

Rob Nothing said:


> A lot of my more oppinionated posts are written from a kinda take-it-or-leave-it perspective.. I don't expect you to see where I'm coming from automatically and neither am I going to disclaim myself every post with an essay or autobiography.
> 
> I'm glad identity politics has been brought up because that is basically on track with what I was thinking.. most people by my .... educated guess... do not know themselves well enough to formulate their own opinions autonomous of what their consuming minds find in the media. . . Political correctness is a force-fed phenomena, it doesn't spring, overall, from the reasoning mind.. it comes from a collective baser vanity. Resentiment, exactly.


okay so lets say you say the word faggot. and lets say for the sake of conversation (I didn't take the time to read your profile and see if your hetero or not) that youre straight. a gay person you know is offended, and beyond that has a moral objection to what you said being that its a word used to dehumanize a marginalized group for a very long time. do you think his objection is a vain act of political correction? by saying you were morally wrong for using the word faggot do you think he is simply trying to force you to adhere to a nebulous political agenda apart from himself, or that he is simply pointing out an instance of apathy towards the plight of homosexuals? or maybe you simply don't understand what its like to be a homosexual, so nobody should expect you to know the pain it causes, and therefore shouldn't hold you accountable?


----------



## syrinyx

I'm really pretty surprised by some of the responses here. "Politically correct" is a fucking stupid term used to make not acting like an ignorant dickhead seem like the exclusive behavior of Clinton voting whole foods shoppers who only don't say "the N word" so Jesse Jackson won't tell their friends with coexist bumper stickers that they're secret racists, thus getting them evicted from their holistic wellness classes. Seriously, will it hurt your feelings to not vomit racial slurs from your dumb white mouths as much as it could potentially hurt somebody's feelings who's had those words used as tools to lessen the value of their lives or who suffer from the ongoing results of the cultural context out of which those words were born? It probably won't. But I've seen this line of thinking over and over. You Nietzsche-reading nihilists get your jimmies rustled beyond all good sense when you think people are telling you what you can and can't say. It's not about that. It's about harm reduction. If you're a decent fuckin' person, you shouldn't go around foaming slurs at the mouth, especially if you're not a member of the demographic that slur targets. It's not for you to decide that it is or isn't offensive. It's not for me to decide either. But I know there are a million better words available to me that don't carry ANY chance of ruining somebody's day or week to hear, so I use them instead. Is that so hard? If it really IS that hard for you and you just REALLY love to sound like a tween on XBOX live because it's fuckin America and you can say what you want and you're so afraid that you're "adding to the power of the word by not saying it" or whatever bullshit argument you're using as an excuse to be the coolest most offensive person in the room because "it's not my job to not hurt people's feelings" then--fine. Be my guest. But I hope you can hear the collective, audible, painful, unforgettable cringe of everyone in earshot when you're the white kid with dreads that just casually dropped the N word. Wait, nevermind. I know you have black friends, so it's cool.


----------



## roguetrader

i've read some bonkers exchanges on this site but this one absolutely takes the biscuit - real issues drowning in a sea of abstraction - some threads should stay dead......


----------



## Rob Nothing

black said:


> a gay person you know is offended, and beyond that has a moral objection to what you said being that its a word used to dehumanize a marginalized group for a very long time. do you think his objection is a vain act of political correction? by saying you were morally wrong for using the word faggot do you think he is simply trying to force you to adhere to a nebulous political agenda apart from himself, or that he is simply pointing out an instance of apathy towards the plight of homosexuals? or maybe you simply don't understand what its like to be a homosexual, so nobody should expect you to know the pain it causes, and therefore shouldn't hold you accountable?


Thank you sir for keeping this civil and non reactionary.. that's refreshing. 
I understand your disagreement and you raise a good point; is it not immoral to be insensitive to the complexes and sensibilities of people you don't know, in as much as you are knowingly so. 

It was not wise for me to associate in any way with Nietzsche here since, like Marx, there are certain irrevocable connotations and loose baggage associated with his work in the English speaking world. ie nazism and nihilism and fascist agendas or anarchal ones. I would retract that if I could. The more intellectual stuff pertaining to that era and that thinking is old and outmoded on too many levels to look at all credible referring to it. 

Regrettably I am just not one of you commendable souls, you guys that are on a mission to save everyone. You have your style and your priorities, I have my own. We are not all the same species, to the contrary we are all aliens to one another, and because of that I am not going to go around worrying what complete strangers might think about me.. if I know you personally and I like you then that is when the consequences of my conduct and how I carry myself will be most relevant to me in my life. 

I am not in the habit of using the F word or the S word in front of children, and neither am often inclined to use other crude terms in the presence of innocents.


----------



## Beegod Santana

I always put respecting a person above trying to make sure my vocabulary doesn't offend. I grew up around a lotta fucked people, as a result, every now and then something a little harsh slips out my mouth. Sure I should (and do) try to avoid it, but at the same time, I ain't gonna lose sleep over someone being offended by something they over heard me say outta context. Even when I encounter someone I know I disagree with on almost everything, I still do my damnedest to treat them with basic kindness and respect. I won't call a cop "pig" to his face for example, or a Trump supporter a "fucking retard" cause at the end of the day I'm not out to cause more conflict. Freaking out on people about minor slights in their vocabulary however, I would call that causing conflict.


----------



## iflewoverthecuckoosnest

The rise of ultra-political correctness and language/joke policing has been kind of frustrating for me.

I am very, very much in favor of gay rights and racial equality. Racism, sexism, homophobia... They're all real. But when people want to control the jokes of comedians and inhibit open dialogue on college campuses, I just can't get behind it.

That's not to say that it's okay to be flagrantly racist, or to use threatening language. If you call your gay friend a "faggot" in a derogatory sense, expect him to get pissed and maybe not be your friend anymore. If you are a dick, expect to be treated like one.

I like what Rob said about social intelligence. Part of what can make discussions about PC such a headache is that it is heavily context dependent, which is also why making broad laws and policies based on what might "offend" people is not such a great idea.

Not only that, but some of these ultra PC people inadvertently minimize real instances of oppression and abuse. When you proclaim that men can rape you with their eyes and words (I understand that not all PC advocates think this, but some of the more extreme ones have made statements about men raping them without touching them), you undermine the trauma of REAL rape victims who really did face the alienation, terror, and pain of such an assault. You also undermine women who were raped by other women, and you undermine men who have been raped.

I just find this new obsession over language policing and censorship in the name of equality so disheartening. It seems like kind of a waste of time when there are real instances of oppression happening every damn day. That is not to say that people don't sometimes say openly racist or sexist things- but again, that is heavily dependent on context, something that political correctness does not tend to take into account. 

For the record, I don't use racial or homophobic slurs. I think that there are more creative swear words that don't have such a loaded history. But that doesn't mean I'm going to join the angry mob next time a comedian tells an edgy joke.


----------



## Hillbilly Castro

syrinyx said:


> I'm really pretty surprised by some of the responses here. "Politically correct" is a fucking stupid term used to make not acting like an ignorant dickhead seem like the exclusive behavior of Clinton voting whole foods shoppers who only don't say "the N word" so Jesse Jackson won't tell their friends with coexist bumper stickers that they're secret racists, thus getting them evicted from their holistic wellness classes. Seriously, will it hurt your feelings to not vomit racial slurs from your dumb white mouths as much as it could potentially hurt somebody's feelings who's had those words used as tools to lessen the value of their lives or who suffer from the ongoing results of the cultural context out of which those words were born? It probably won't. But I've seen this line of thinking over and over. You Nietzsche-reading nihilists get your jimmies rustled beyond all good sense when you think people are telling you what you can and can't say. It's not about that. It's about harm reduction. If you're a decent fuckin' person, you shouldn't go around foaming slurs at the mouth, especially if you're not a member of the demographic that slur targets. It's not for you to decide that it is or isn't offensive. It's not for me to decide either. But I know there are a million better words available to me that don't carry ANY chance of ruining somebody's day or week to hear, so I use them instead. Is that so hard? If it really IS that hard for you and you just REALLY love to sound like a tween on XBOX live because it's fuckin America and you can say what you want and you're so afraid that you're "adding to the power of the word by not saying it" or whatever bullshit argument you're using as an excuse to be the coolest most offensive person in the room because "it's not my job to not hurt people's feelings" then--fine. Be my guest. But I hope you can hear the collective, audible, painful, unforgettable cringe of everyone in earshot when you're the white kid with dreads that just casually dropped the N word. Wait, nevermind. I know you have black friends, so it's cool.



The problem with this is that the essential structure of Christianity remains intact in any form of political idealism. You are guilty of Original Sin, do your penance, get jacked up on self-righteous belief, and you'll get to the Heaven of a Just world. I have a "dumb white mouth", and if only I police myself and feel all the right forms of guilt, working myself into a neurotic True Believer, racism will end. Nevermind that white supremacy consists of _material_ realities that have essentially nothing to do with language or the behavior of the individual - unless the individual behaves as a guerilla soldier in a _material struggle_ against racist systems and struggles. True, I agree there isn't much reason to use what are commonly understood to be "slurs"; but I take issue with the philosophical road you tread to reach that conclusion. I think the tools you use to get there are weak and, to be completely frank, absolutely misguided.

You post a knee-jerk reaction to Nietzschean ideas, but Nietzsche formulated the ideas he did from watching this exact sequence play out over and over since the Enlightenment. His concept of Slave Morality is essentially that in hierarchical societies, a master class exists, and enforces their superiority (however arbitrary) onto a class of slaves who are denied the means to effectively resist their oppression; What happens from here is _resentiment, _(wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment) where an impotent group of the oppressed turn the hatred they have for their captors inwards, into a culture of mad revenge fantasies and self-hatred. Eventually, this culture takes on a life of its own, until it is divorced from its origins in master-slave society. Christianity epitomized this. The climax of the Christian revenge fantasy is found in the day that _the meek shall inherit the earth,_ by "turning the other cheek" and doing penance for their sins; it is a fantasy that is utterly divorced from the bones of history, that has no tactical relevance or bearing on the processes of history. Slave morality, then, comprises a set of philosophical narcotics that make the self-hating follower of slave-revenge cults doped up enough to acquiesce with the world around them, and in fact, to ultimately serve the very master class they hated to begin with. It is a genius trick on the part of the empowered to circulate resistance back into itself, such that power goes untouched. Along the way, for the individual, this process means a life of guilt and inefficacy, where one's failure to alter the fundamental conditions of the world around them makes them more self-hating, and their self-hatred in turn even further reduces their efficacy in changing their world. *This is pathetic and the path to an impoverished existence.*

I am by no means engaging in some kind of "don't tell me what to say, mom, Nietzsche said you can't" rhetoric in applying these ideas here. I am an individualist, completely and totally. The closest thing I have to a philosophical certainty is that I exist - I desire, and I have unique qualities that differentiate me from all other living beings. Further, these qualities can be nourished into the higher stages of self-actualization - and when these higher planes of the self are reached, and higher selves commune with one another to form communities, this is anarchy. Thus, identity is antithetical to the project of anarchy. Racism is an atrocity, I agree - not out of a moral sense of "duty" but out of a personal and instinctual repulsion - but we must understand that for racism to happen, individuals must be _racialized_. They must be assigned a racial identity against their will, when they are individuals first and foremost. If I encounter an individual that would prefer me to speak a certain way, inasmuch as I find it egoistic to gain the person's respect, I will comply with their desire. If I don't find it egoistic, why would anyone expect me to comply? For "society"? For the "political ideal"? I am absolutely cynical about ideals and I hate society. I am concerned only with those individuals who are in pursuit of their highest selves, and who in so doing exit "society" and its moral strife completely, to wage open warfare against that society. Slave morality is absolutely antithetical to this project.

I do not expect you to agree, but I wanted to add nuance to my position so that it would not be misinterpreted. From some correspondences I have with other anarchists internationally, the positions I describe are much more common outside the US, in Argentina, Chile, Greece, Spain, and so on. The Conspiracy Cells of Fire, the Mexican ITS, and the international Federacion Anarquista International (FAI) are good examples and their writings can be found at nostate.325.net . 

Lastly, consider the tactical benefit of slave morality to the Deep State, CIA, and other authoritarian organizations that aim to thwart cultures of resistance. These two articles do a good job at introducing this as a possibility without engaging with conspiracy thinking.

http://thephilosophicalsalon.com/th...ctual-labor-of-dismantling-the-cultural-left/ and http://www.openculture.com/2015/12/simple-sabotage-field-manual.html are great examples


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## syrinyx

Hillbilly Castro said:


> The problem with this is that the essential structure of Christianity remains intact in any form of political idealism. You are guilty of Original Sin, do your penance, get jacked up on self-righteous belief, and you'll get to the Heaven of a Just world. I have a "dumb white mouth", and if only I police myself and feel all the right forms of guilt, working myself into a neurotic True Believer, racism will end. Nevermind that white supremacy consists of _material_ realities that have essentially nothing to do with language or the behavior of the individual - unless the individual behaves as a guerilla soldier in a _material struggle_ against racist systems and struggles. True, I agree there isn't much reason to use what are commonly understood to be "slurs"; but I take issue with the philosophical road you tread to reach that conclusion. I think the tools you use to get there are weak and, to be completely frank, absolutely misguided.
> 
> You post a knee-jerk reaction to Nietzschean ideas, but Nietzsche formulated the ideas he did from watching this exact sequence play out over and over since the Enlightenment. His concept of Slave Morality is essentially that in hierarchical societies, a master class exists, and enforces their superiority (however arbitrary) onto a class of slaves who are denied the means to effectively resist their oppression; What happens from here is _resentiment, _(wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment) where an impotent group of the oppressed turn the hatred they have for their captors inwards, into a culture of mad revenge fantasies and self-hatred. Eventually, this culture takes on a life of its own, until it is divorced from its origins in master-slave society. Christianity epitomized this. The climax of the Christian revenge fantasy is found in the day that _the meek shall inherit the earth,_ by "turning the other cheek" and doing penance for their sins; it is a fantasy that is utterly divorced from the bones of history, that has no tactical relevance or bearing on the processes of history. Slave morality, then, comprises a set of philosophical narcotics that make the self-hating follower of slave-revenge cults doped up enough to acquiesce with the world around them, and in fact, to ultimately serve the very master class they hated to begin with. It is a genius trick on the part of the empowered to circulate resistance back into itself, such that power goes untouched. Along the way, for the individual, this process means a life of guilt and inefficacy, where one's failure to alter the fundamental conditions of the world around them makes them more self-hating, and their self-hatred in turn even further reduces their efficacy in changing their world. *This is pathetic and the path to an impoverished existence.*
> 
> I am by no means engaging in some kind of "don't tell me what to say, mom, Nietzsche said you can't" rhetoric in applying these ideas here. I am an individualist, completely and totally. The closest thing I have to a philosophical certainty is that I exist - I desire, and I have unique qualities that differentiate me from all other living beings. Further, these qualities can be nourished into the higher stages of self-actualization - and when these higher planes of the self are reached, and higher selves commune with one another to form communities, this is anarchy. Thus, identity is antithetical to the project of anarchy. Racism is an atrocity, I agree - not out of a moral sense of "duty" but out of a personal and instinctual repulsion - but we must understand that for racism to happen, individuals must be _racialized_. They must be assigned a racial identity against their will, when they are individuals first and foremost. If I encounter an individual that would prefer me to speak a certain way, inasmuch as I find it egoistic to gain the person's respect, I will comply with their desire. If I don't find it egoistic, why would anyone expect me to comply? For "society"? For the "political ideal"? I am absolutely cynical about ideals and I hate society. I am concerned only with those individuals who are in pursuit of their highest selves, and who in so doing exit "society" and its moral strife completely, to wage open warfare against that society. Slave morality is absolutely antithetical to this project.
> 
> I do not expect you to agree, but I wanted to add nuance to my position so that it would not be misinterpreted. From some correspondences I have with other anarchists internationally, the positions I describe are much more common outside the US, in Argentina, Chile, Greece, Spain, and so on. The Conspiracy Cells of Fire, the Mexican ITS, and the international Federacion Anarquista International (FAI) are good examples and their writings can be found at nostate.325.net .
> 
> Lastly, consider the tactical benefit of slave morality to the Deep State, CIA, and other authoritarian organizations that aim to thwart cultures of resistance. These two articles do a good job at introducing this as a possibility without engaging with conspiracy thinking.
> 
> http://thephilosophicalsalon.com/th...ctual-labor-of-dismantling-the-cultural-left/ and http://www.openculture.com/2015/12/simple-sabotage-field-manual.html are great examples


1) Didn't need you to explain the concept of slave morality or ressentiment to me. I wouldn't have bothered ridiculing the mention of Nietzsche if I were unfamiliar with his writings.
2) Didn't need you to explain that you're individualist and what that means. I sussed out that you're an individualist a few words into your first post. I have fundamental problems with individualism itself, but that's another issue--and I know you're not fond of ideals anyway. 
3) Don't need a religious society to develop the idea that you shouldn't be a dick to people. In simplest possible terms: I try not to be a dick to people because it makes people sad. I have spent a lot of time sad. I feel empathy for others, so I'd rather not contribute to other people being sad if I can help it.
4) Don't need you to wrap your apathy in long-winded philosophy (if you can call Nietzsche's frequently self-contradicting aphorisms philosophy) for me to understand you don't care for political ideology or society.
5) Don't need political ideology or society to feel empathy for others.
6) Don't need to be spoken to like I'm some kind of pleb that needs to be spoonfed Nietzschean ideas by your obviously highly advanced brain because I simply haven't arrived at such logical conclusions as yours. (I hope that reads sarcastic in plain text.)
7) Don't need you to *bold* your assertions so that my simple brain can understand how very right and logical and important they are.
8) Don't need to use this thread to debate the merits of Nietzsche's writing, although it is highly tempting and I'll leave this 1900 criticism by Trotsky for those interested.
9) Don't need to derail the thread to prove you're the best-read person here. I bet you aced at least your first semester as a philosophy major EASILY.
10) Don't need to explain to me that if you DO see merit in Nietzsche's work that you don't give a shit for "political correctness".
11) Don't think I have much else to say to somebody that finds any value in an ideology railing against the idea of empathy.
12) Don't think you actually understand Nietzsche if you think his ideas are compatible with anarchism or insurrection in any capacity. You can click that green link to Trotsky's writing if you're about to attempt to argue that point.


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## AlwaysLost

I use the word retard quite a bit but in usually describing myself...


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