# Renting (and living) a space that wouldn't normally be considered a living space.



## replaceablehead (Jan 10, 2012)

Right this is my first post; I was think of introducing myself but i'm a little short on time, so uh hi!

Ok so I'm in sydney australia. I don't know if theres many australians on this forum, but perhaps someone can give me some advice

Anyway I'd better explain exactly what I mean. I'm talking about renting places that for whatever reason can't normally be rented as "living spaces" for what ever reason. For example, I know a guy who rents a sort of storage shed near the beach for $30pw. he fits a double bed and fridge in there and showers at the beach facilities. I'll have to ask him but so far as I know the owners cool with it. Thats just one example, but i figure surely theres places out there that are only in need of a little tlc.

I know in the UK they have something called Property Guardians. Basically you pay greatly reduced rent to live in mostly commercial buildings acting as kind of sitter, only instead of houses it's things like empty pubs and shops and warehouses.

Anyway the problem I have is I wouldn't have a clue where to start looking, or how to approach an owner. Really I'd want them to be ok with it and negotiate some kind of deal. I mean I know people who've lived in places that by Australian law shouldn't technically have been rent able (don't we all!). My sister even rented a place through an estate agent that didn't have garbage service and had some pretty suspect repairs, but she got it dirt cheap.

So do these kind of things exist in sydney? and how does one find them? and what other are ways are there of negotiating cheap rent without going so far as to squat.

Oh my budgets like $100 if it was something neat, i need rehearsal space too, but less means i can save more.


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## wizehop (Jan 10, 2012)

From my limited experience, for the most part living in a place that isnt zoned for living isnt legal..or at least not permitted. You wont get changed or anything you just might get kicked out if discovered by the right/wrong person. That being said there is no limit on where you could live as an individual providing no one really knows. Same goes with deals..sure if you can strike up a deal with someone but I highly doubt most people will officially let you live somewhere your not supposed to. Personally I would just find a space where you could get away without anyone really knowing..including the owner.
Depending on what kind of lifestyle you looking for you could probably rent a room in someones house and do things a little more comfortably. Cant really help you with the Australia bit though sorry...never lived there so not up on the scene.


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## replaceablehead (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah I thought that would probably be the case. I guess my situation is that I want a bit of space for a studio and rehearsal and for living; all I really need is a place to hang my hat. And I am happy enough to pay a little money for it if it means avoiding the insecurity of squatting. So if I could find a a decent bit of space I figured so long as it had a toilet why not live there as well. I was also pretty intrigued by this property guardian thing they seem to have set up in the UK. Check it out, http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jan/10/property-guardian-schemes also heres a company that organizes it, http://uk.cameloteurope.com/


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## Matt Derrick (Jan 11, 2012)

the whole property guardian thing sounds kinda interesting, if you find out more info you should get back to us on it.


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## river dog (Jan 11, 2012)

ive heard of the property guardian stuff, people living in castles for cheap! and office buildings and shit like that


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## replaceablehead (Jan 12, 2012)

I know, sounds like a brilliant gig! But is there some reason why it's not legally possible outside the UK and Europe. I know it's done in France and a few other EU countries, but it seems unheard of anywhere else. Maybe someone here has some legal knowledge they could share? Is there somewhere you can go to get information on property law?


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## Cardboard (Jan 14, 2012)

Matt Pist said:


> the whole property guardian thing sounds kinda interesting, if you find out more info you should get back to us on it.


It's probably different in Australia, but if you are interested, ask the folks at the rhizome collective. You were living in Austin before, so I guess you know them? If not, long story short, they were doing this, with some one living in a caravan at their warehouse, and seemed fine with the law. I think they might have actually lost that space in the long run, but they figured out the whole property guardian thing for a while at least. They were doing this when I was there in early 2009.


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## replaceablehead (Jan 14, 2012)

Hmmm a farm is very different. Here in Australia you can do almost anything you want to your own piece of farm land. But I have a suspicion Australian zoning laws would prohibit living in a commercial space, then again if it's just a matter of amenities then plenty of places would have toilets and such. Actually I was looking at a farm shed for lease in the classifieds, not too far from the city. I know from growing up in rural Australia that farmer aren't a very fussy lot. I reckon in the country you'd have no trouble. Hell if this is legally viable I would defiantly consider setting up a small firm to liaison with property owners, or even set up a community group; it would make a great project.


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## replaceablehead (Jan 14, 2012)

Well it doesn't look like any of this is terribly constructive. I might have to go and do further research into the legal side of things. Anyway I'll let you all know if I find anything out.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Oct 2, 2015)

you mentioned rehersal space.... a buch of my friends had a huge wharehouse space that was two levels which they rented on the cheap - like $260.00 a month - in a commercial / semi vacant building that was essentially considered cold storage only - meaning no heat, just electricity.

The whole time I knew them they had a rocking studio going, with parties on a regular basis and 4 or 5 people pitching in to pay the rent.

I myself was to get involved but the excess of drug use there turned me off.

Now -because of where they were - there was very little attention sent their way - until there was a suspicious fire in one of the other semi vacant buildings.

On their behalf - I jumped the gun and used my Fire Dept connections [I was a member of the all vol. fire dept one town over] and let one of the officers know that yes, there is a recording studio at such and such a place, and yes, there's people there all hours of the night - because of the nature of how musicians and artists work - which we all know to be true.

What I did not tell them - nor did I have to - was that there were 3 or 4 individuals living there on the 2nd floor.

Part of the reason folks started staying there was the obvious: so their gear would not get stolen, but also - I mean, $260.00 split 4 ways ?? That's cheap living, plus electricity was basically free.

Where I am going with this is I think it's do-able, what it is you are looking to do but find out if the place you are interested in allows 24 hour access and I can't emphisise this enough: keep everything real clean so you attract no unwanted attention. 

The story above was in CT.

I've known people who did the same thing in NYC during the 1980s - turning storage rooms into full blown rehersal studios / living spaces.

I'd say go for it but continue to do your homework first.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Oct 2, 2015)

*whoa !!
Did not realize this post was like 3 years old....... 

Damn, why is the stuff that is so interesting also long forgotten ??


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## Frodo (Jan 24, 2016)

OTTERWOLF said:


> *whoa !!
> Did not realize this post was like 3 years old.......
> 
> Damn, why is the stuff that is so interesting also long forgotten ??


I dont know man, it is a shame, but im glad you gave the info you did because that is a badas way to live.


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## Fanatical Steward (Jan 24, 2016)

If somebody decides to snitch on them, than I understand that many of these strict zoning laws can cause both the owner and the tenant legal trouble.


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## Deleted member 13433 (Jan 26, 2016)

In the end, they ruined it for themselves.
The last remaining individuals were beating the landlord on the rent, and ripping off other tenants there as well.
That's why I hate drugs so much.
They had a real good thing going and ruined it.
Myself and one of the D.I.Y. Bandits were in talks to take it over, but in the end we just let it go which effectively ended to me anyway one of the last truly creative scenes that was left out here, now there is nothing.... everyone split up, and nobody ever talks to anyone who was apart of that space.
Perhaps it's just as well.

I heard that 10 years prior, maybe even longer - there was another spot in the building which burned up that I mentioned earlier which was run by the D.I.Y. Bandits called The Factory House.

I'm not sure if any info about that place is on the internet but they put on full blown shows there for quite sometime.

I guess people were living there too.,
It sucks that there is no underground art/music community here anymore.
But that's life I guess....


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