# going crazy with (non?) gender questions!!!



## snakefoot

Hey y'all, I've decided to come out about being non-gendered (i think?), and it's fucking with my brain because I've been sitting still for waaaay too long and I feel disconnected from all the other freaks and outcasts. please, for the love of all things holy, talk to me and and let me know that I'm not crazy and not alone!....well, we're all a bit mad here i guess, but you know how it's a different kind of madness that settles in when you're in one place for way too long and dealing with your issues. shit, i don't even really know if i'm non gendered or fourth gendered or whatever the fuck. all i really know is that i don't fit in with men or women as far as women only spaces or men only spaces. i feel like an intruder wherever i go, like i'm wearing a mask and i'm trying to fit in where i don't belong. i'm not a man, but it doesn't feel right to say i'm woman either. i'm not really one or the other, and i'm not really both either even though i share things in common with both. i don't feel like there is anything wrong with my body, it's just a meat suit anyway, and humans only come in two ways, and i would have been just as fine in the other form as i am in this one. help? at least tell me i'm not crazy, cause i feel like i'm about to teeter off into the deep end and never climb back out again. i wanna hear especially from other people who feel the same. reading all these articles with all these different categories of agender and genderqueer and intersex and non binary etc is fucking confusing, i'd rather talk to real live people. any other travelers out there in the same boat???


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## Hillbilly Castro

snakefoot said:


> any other travelers out there in the same boat???



No, definitely not. We've dropped out of society and totally critiqued pretty much all aspects of it, but we're totally cool with this gender thing that says we can only be violent idiots with huge cocks or submissive and curvy mommas-to-be. 
(Thing is, I say that ironically but really, there are apparently some folks who have "awoken from the American dream" but somehow got caught up in some very conservative notions of sex and gender. But fuck them.)
My point is that if you hold any part of this society under a lens you find cracks in the narrative. It's all bullshit, and most people who are travelers understand that innately. I find, for example, that "normies" are _obsessed_ with food expiration dates and adhere to them in a way that strikes me as literally religious. I find this hilarious. Gender is totally the same. I wear skirts to family barbeques lately, as I've been hanging back home to save for Europe, and one of my cousins' new husbands wants to fight me over it. What is this bizarre theater? Why does he take the "M" on my birth certificate as seriously as the expiration date on some yogurt? Can't he use his fuckin' _instinct _to assess each situation in context and realize that the old yogurt won't make him sick, and my wearing a skirt won't actually affect him even slightly? Well, no, he can't, because he is _spooked_. Just like a ghost takes possession of a soul, ideas like gender actually warp an otherwise free individual into a puppet for their use. 
We happen to live in one of the spookiest eras of all time. Everywhere you look, most people are not individuals but mirrors that reflect systems of ideas. This is as old as civilization, but appears to be intensified by the fact that we are soaked in a constant stream of information. No wonder our culture seems to love zombie apocalypse shit so much. Most people today are gender zombies. They just accept whatever idiotic belief was thrust into their hands as a kid, and are so alienated from their own desires and instincts that they cannot feel the extent to which they do or do not fit into classical ideas of gender. They simply carry forth the arbitrary lines they were shown at birth. It's as ignorant as patriotism or throwing away past-dated yogurt without smelling it, but it's a great litmus test for just how arbitrarily the powers that be can set things up.
You are among the aristocrats who've retained enough self-awareness and capacity to be reasonable to know yourself entirely. Importantly, the vast majority of human beings who ever lived lived in this way, and most did not need words to explain it. It simply was, that an individual felt themselves to desire a certain thing, and so they went for it. The vast majority of human beings were not civilized, did not know systems of social hierarchy, or patriarchy. Gender is an idea that has been present, as a rigid and inflexible absolute, in human history for only 10,000 years max. Humans have been human for at least 200,000. So you definitely ain't alone. You've just forged into territory that is timeless, but suppressed, and it is this suppression that makes it look as though you are wandering into unknown land. All you are really doing is reconnecting with desire. Good for you. I'm out here too. Maybe in the ether we'll find others, each other, or pull some more friends out from the huge throng of "true believers" in gendered idiocy. I used to believe, but the seeds of doubt were sown. 
When I hit this point of "omg genderqueer" I found it most useful to put both middle fingers up and do me. I started carrying a knife, and I stopped giving anyone the time of day who couldn't respect me for who I was. And in time I personally found no real need for the infinite amount of new words that queer theory and tumblr seem to have generated. Those are good spells for inducing industrially-produced humans out of their state of anxiety about themselves, but after that, they become hard shells that outlive their usefulness. Identity is a prison. 

Go! Teeter off the deep end. Our ancestors are there, as well as some of the most beautiful human beings you'll ever meet.


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## MilkaNoobie

Wouldn't that be called "A sexual"


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## QueerCoyote

MilkaNoobie said:


> Wouldn't that be called "A sexual"



Sexuality =/= gender

Honestly, my biggest turn off regarding socializing with people outside of their lifestyles/beliefs being incredibly privileged, ignorant, and harmful is the overbearing weight they put on gender. 

When I had long hair, all my trans friends called me she, never even asked for pronouns. Cis people didn't even think to ask. There's layers and layers of gender constructs that affect the way people perceive you as a person, and it's ridiculous and I fucking hate it. Gender permeates just about everything in our culture now. They have Bic pens marketed just towards girls. 

There was definitely a transition period for me when I went "fuck what everyone else thinks" after a few friends told me they wouldn't find me attractive with the short hair I wanted to get. 

The great thing about being queer is we're pretty open. Most queers I know are poly, or anarchists, or both. They're people that say "fuck that" and grow out their leg hair, love whoever they want, have sex however they want, and present however they want.

For me there's a difference between queer and agender, and it's up for you to decide if you're queer or not. Queer is the middle finger out at gender constructs, and agender is the absence of gender in your identity.








Now:


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## spectacular

I just identify as alone being that I'm not interested in hanging out with anyone most of the time and have always felt like an outsider when trying to join groups and party, like I seem to be the one everyone chooses to say "this isn't for you" to many times that I've attempted whether it be rainbow gathering or backyard bbqs or whatever other function.

Gender doesn't have much to do with it . I know a lot of guys who wear dresses who fit in better than I do. 

I'm usually identifiably female. Sometimes people mistake me for a guy when Im in baggy clothes. Most of the time I dress in tight girly clothes. Guys hit on me... I was into it for a bit but now that I'm pregnant not so much.

You're not crazy but looks like you're driving yourself there with the over labeling in my view from what I've read.


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## fuck capitalist scum

Gender is a spook


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## Hillbilly Castro

fuck capitalist scum said:


> Gender is a spook



Yesssss
#FeelTheStirn

(for those who don't get the reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Stirner )


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## Matt Derrick

snakefoot said:


> Hey y'all, I've decided to come out about being non-gendered (i think?), and it's fucking with my brain because I've been sitting still for waaaay too long and I feel disconnected from all the other freaks and outcasts. please, for the love of all things holy, talk to me and and let me know that I'm not crazy and not alone!....well, we're all a bit mad here i guess, but you know how it's a different kind of madness that settles in when you're in one place for way too long and dealing with your issues. shit, i don't even really know if i'm non gendered or fourth gendered or whatever the fuck. all i really know is that i don't fit in with men or women as far as women only spaces or men only spaces. i feel like an intruder wherever i go, like i'm wearing a mask and i'm trying to fit in where i don't belong. i'm not a man, but it doesn't feel right to say i'm woman either. i'm not really one or the other, and i'm not really both either even though i share things in common with both. i don't feel like there is anything wrong with my body, it's just a meat suit anyway, and humans only come in two ways, and i would have been just as fine in the other form as i am in this one. help? at least tell me i'm not crazy, cause i feel like i'm about to teeter off into the deep end and never climb back out again. i wanna hear especially from other people who feel the same. reading all these articles with all these different categories of agender and genderqueer and intersex and non binary etc is fucking confusing, i'd rather talk to real live people. any other travelers out there in the same boat???



i don't think you're crazy, but i think maybe you're struggling a little too hard to categorize what you're feeling? like, maybe take a step back and try to relax and not worry about defining it so much, and just realize that you feel the way you feel, it's complicated, and people should respect that.

that's my general opinion, but i have no real idea what it's like to be in your position as i'm a cis gendered male.


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## Kim Chee

bizzolizzo said:


> You're not crazy but looks like you're driving yourself there with the over labeling in my view from what I've read.



^What this person said.


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## zipty6425

Gnarly topic, I love it! Sounds like your an outcast, which means your in the right place... I think most people on this site are a little outside of the social norm.... Atleast that's what attracted me to sign up. Cheers


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## EphemeralStick

Nah, you're not crazy at all! Just be yourself, don't focus on what you are, focus on who you are. Everything is confusing but you don't need to come out as anything to be who you are. Just take a deep breath and let yourself be confused for a bit. You'll find your own answers in time.

Personally I go with the term queer since it feels the most comfortable for me. There are some days where I look and feel more masculine, then there are others where I feel more feminine. I like to think of my gender identity as something that is always changing and transforming.


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## zipty6425

I'm totally lost right now... Can you clarify? Is there a ding dong between your legs? Or do you buy tampons once a month? I thought she was referring to a state of mind, as a lost young woman... EphemeralStick seems to think he's a homosexual male... Why do people make post soo confusing?


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## HoboinaTux

First of all, i have a penis, only i sit in the same bed for over twenty four hours in all the adornment of my female companion so far it is as such anyway. I don't call myself trans or anything. Gender should not superficially restrict ones enjoyment of sexuality or anything apart from unavoidable biology and procreation. Which is not becoming less restrictive even by the day.

I sit in much the same prison of self as you at present. Lonelyness is worse a pain than a great blow or superficial injury. It is manifest in electrical movement and chemical makeup which is capable of great, great physical harm its reactions cause. It is however, a worthy pain to endure if the alternative is even more dissagreeable. Be who you are, enjoy what you experience, endeavor to accomplish what has value to yourself. No fucking shame. Question everything. Fuck holes. Make it better as if it was yourself to live after your life.


Maybe that's terrible advice for your happiness. I think my opinion is flawed, however the best way of continuing life as it is. So what of you're "crazy"? All that means is your brain functions in a different way. And people are too selfish or otherwise occupied to be concerned with the pursuit of how you got to the conclusion you did. Crazy is not madness. Madness is the absence of reason. An affliction which befalls a very small number of unfortunate souls of their own circumstance.


And play chess with me?


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## EphemeralStick

@zipty6425 Uh, yea you kind of missed my point. But that's okay! Hmm how to put it.
Obviously I don't switch my assigned gender like an amphibian or something. Off of first glance most people just address me with male pronouns which is also fine. Though i don't see my gender as being set as cis-male because there are a lot feminine qualities that go along with me that I find myself sort of between male and female, hence why I identify as queer.

The point I was trying to make was that everyone has their own perception on how they view themselves and that's it's okay for OP to take their time in figuring it out and that they shouldn't feel discouraged nor crazy.


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## zipty6425

For sure!


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## Mankini

Francis Fukuyama called Transhumanism ''The Most Dangerous Idea"...Those who transcend, in whatever way, the limitations of intellect and physiology that we are born with, frighten Frank. He trembles when he considers any evolution in HS Sapiens.
Forget politics. Forget paradigms. And most of all forget matter.


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## Hillbilly Castro

EphemeralStick said:


> Obviously I don't switch my assigned gender like an amphibian or something.



that sounds SICK though
and I actually literally kinda do that


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## doctressjulia

snakefoot said:


> Hey y'all, I've decided to come out about being non-gendered (i think?), and it's fucking with my brain because I've been sitting still for waaaay too long and I feel disconnected from all the other freaks and outcasts. please, for the love of all things holy, talk to me and and let me know that I'm not crazy and not alone!....well, we're all a bit mad here i guess, but you know how it's a different kind of madness that settles in when you're in one place for way too long and dealing with your issues. shit, i don't even really know if i'm non gendered or fourth gendered or whatever the fuck. all i really know is that i don't fit in with men or women as far as women only spaces or men only spaces. i feel like an intruder wherever i go, like i'm wearing a mask and i'm trying to fit in where i don't belong. i'm not a man, but it doesn't feel right to say i'm woman either. i'm not really one or the other, and i'm not really both either even though i share things in common with both. i don't feel like there is anything wrong with my body, it's just a meat suit anyway, and humans only come in two ways, and i would have been just as fine in the other form as i am in this one. help? at least tell me i'm not crazy, cause i feel like i'm about to teeter off into the deep end and never climb back out again. i wanna hear especially from other people who feel the same. reading all these articles with all these different categories of agender and genderqueer and intersex and non binary etc is fucking confusing, i'd rather talk to real live people. any other travelers out there in the same boat???




GENDER IS BULLSHIT. What used to be called "sex roles" (which are regressive and misogynist to the core) is now called "gender" and pushed on young people like some fun thing. It is a bunch of garbage. Ignore it or examine it critically for what it is... and you'll be OK.

Now you know.

Here you go...

http://thenewbacklash.blogspot.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical

The facts are there if you avail yourself of them.


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## snakefoot

Buffalo said:


> No, definitely not. We've dropped out of society and totally critiqued pretty much all aspects of it, but we're totally cool with this gender thing that says we can only be violent idiots with huge cocks or submissive and curvy mommas-to-be.
> (Thing is, I say that ironically but really, there are apparently some folks who have "awoken from the American dream" but somehow got caught up in some very conservative notions of sex and gender. But fuck them.)
> My point is that if you hold any part of this society under a lens you find cracks in the narrative. It's all bullshit, and most people who are travelers understand that innately. I find, for example, that "normies" are _obsessed_ with food expiration dates and adhere to them in a way that strikes me as literally religious. I find this hilarious. Gender is totally the same. I wear skirts to family barbeques lately, as I've been hanging back home to save for Europe, and one of my cousins' new husbands wants to fight me over it. What is this bizarre theater? Why does he take the "M" on my birth certificate as seriously as the expiration date on some yogurt? Can't he use his fuckin' _instinct _to assess each situation in context and realize that the old yogurt won't make him sick, and my wearing a skirt won't actually affect him even slightly? Well, no, he can't, because he is _spooked_. Just like a ghost takes possession of a soul, ideas like gender actually warp an otherwise free individual into a puppet for their use.
> We happen to live in one of the spookiest eras of all time. Everywhere you look, most people are not individuals but mirrors that reflect systems of ideas. This is as old as civilization, but appears to be intensified by the fact that we are soaked in a constant stream of information. No wonder our culture seems to love zombie apocalypse shit so much. Most people today are gender zombies. They just accept whatever idiotic belief was thrust into their hands as a kid, and are so alienated from their own desires and instincts that they cannot feel the extent to which they do or do not fit into classical ideas of gender. They simply carry forth the arbitrary lines they were shown at birth. It's as ignorant as patriotism or throwing away past-dated yogurt without smelling it, but it's a great litmus test for just how arbitrarily the powers that be can set things up.
> You are among the aristocrats who've retained enough self-awareness and capacity to be reasonable to know yourself entirely. Importantly, the vast majority of human beings who ever lived lived in this way, and most did not need words to explain it. It simply was, that an individual felt themselves to desire a certain thing, and so they went for it. The vast majority of human beings were not civilized, did not know systems of social hierarchy, or patriarchy. Gender is an idea that has been present, as a rigid and inflexible absolute, in human history for only 10,000 years max. Humans have been human for at least 200,000. So you definitely ain't alone. You've just forged into territory that is timeless, but suppressed, and it is this suppression that makes it look as though you are wandering into unknown land. All you are really doing is reconnecting with desire. Good for you. I'm out here too. Maybe in the ether we'll find others, each other, or pull some more friends out from the huge throng of "true believers" in gendered idiocy. I used to believe, but the seeds of doubt were sown.
> When I hit this point of "omg genderqueer" I found it most useful to put both middle fingers up and do me. I started carrying a knife, and I stopped giving anyone the time of day who couldn't respect me for who I was. And in time I personally found no real need for the infinite amount of new words that queer theory and tumblr seem to have generated. Those are good spells for inducing industrially-produced humans out of their state of anxiety about themselves, but after that, they become hard shells that outlive their usefulness. Identity is a prison.
> 
> Go! Teeter off the deep end. Our ancestors are there, as well as some of the most beautiful human beings you'll ever meet.



So first of all let me say that this was my absolute FAVORITE answer of them all, in no small part because of the continuous reference to expired yogurt (fucking boss! and expiration dates are totally over rated) 
This is kind of the way that I have been thinking about the whole thing but didn't really have the words to put it in because, well, I was kind of freaking out lol. and fuck all the weird and random names that people have come up with to define themselves outside of traditional gender roles...you're right, they do turn into just as much of a constraint as the ideas on gender that you are trying to move away from. it's just been really hard for me at times to remember who and what I am because of where I am at, so, you know, I kind of lose my shit every once in a while and then come to one connection I still have to the misfit traveler community to remember that hey, this place I am in? it's not the real world, and these really are just sheeple out here, and I should really, really stop letting them get to me, because, well, fuck them!
I really do think that there was a time before gender constructs and ideologies, when people could really and truly just be people without having to define and explain themselves to the narrow minded who only know what they have been force fed and made to regurgitate under the guise of knowledge and answers. 
this is indeed one of (if not the) spookiest time in all history, definitely the spookiest in recorded history, and it's really funny to me how so many people think that they are "intelligent and informed" when they have absolutely zero critical thinking skills and a gross inability to discern things for themselves without relying on someone else's opinion. 
since I made this post, which was really a call to those I really feel are my family to comfort me in a time of need, i've been getting my head screwed on a little better....i'm not so confused by the terms, and really don't care about them, although I do insist that people refer to me as "they". I've been a lot less afraid to stand up for myself and not take anybody's shit. I don't care what they think or how they feel, and if they can't wrap their head around it, that's fine, but respect or fuck off. 
at this point in my life there is no place for gender. maybe it's because the more i think about it, the more ridiculous it sounds and the less i want to do with it (not that i wanted much to do with it in the first place, because hey, if it's going to spin me like that, then why the fuck should I even waste the time effort and energy to entertain it?) and maybe it's because gender is just totally bogus, made up, and bad for you, just as bad for you and unnatural as drinking round up. 
anywho, thank you all for all your kind words and encouragement, for sharing your stories and for reaching out. you fucking rock. all of you


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## snakefoot

HoboinaTux said:


> First of all, i have a penis, only i sit in the same bed for over twenty four hours in all the adornment of my female companion so far it is as such anyway. I don't call myself trans or anything. Gender should not superficially restrict ones enjoyment of sexuality or anything apart from unavoidable biology and procreation. Which is not becoming less restrictive even by the day.
> 
> I sit in much the same prison of self as you at present. Lonelyness is worse a pain than a great blow or superficial injury. It is manifest in electrical movement and chemical makeup which is capable of great, great physical harm its reactions cause. It is however, a worthy pain to endure if the alternative is even more dissagreeable. Be who you are, enjoy what you experience, endeavor to accomplish what has value to yourself. No fucking shame. Question everything. Fuck holes. Make it better as if it was yourself to live after your life.
> 
> 
> Maybe that's terrible advice for your happiness. I think my opinion is flawed, however the best way of continuing life as it is. So what of you're "crazy"? All that means is your brain functions in a different way. And people are too selfish or otherwise occupied to be concerned with the pursuit of how you got to the conclusion you did. Crazy is not madness. Madness is the absence of reason. An affliction which befalls a very small number of unfortunate souls of their own circumstance.
> 
> 
> And play chess with me?



I would LOVE to play chess with you!!!


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## Inhibition

I identify as agender if forced to pick. More accurately I'm closer to a gender abolitionist, although I have empathy for people who feel a need for a label.

Gender is a social construct designed to dominate and control the appearance, behavior and attitudes of the population. It is antithesis to my value system. No one needs a label to cage them.

I have hormones and reproductive features typical of a biological male. I've never felt this was a problem. Some people have issues with their features and it sounds like it is difficult for them so I sympathize with that as well.

It's very alienating, but so is being anti capitalism, suffering from illness, and being deviant psychologically, ideologically, behaviorally, or cosmetically in general. I'm surrounded by feminists and in a very liberal area of the country, but in practice people have a strong preference for men who conform to male gender roles. Competitive, dominant, pro capitalism and using capitalist structures to provide for women and children, suppressing emotions, etc. 

I won't conform so it's something I have to accept that I can't change. People's value systems here are much closer to mine though. If I had the health to travel I'd be interested in meeting the kinds of people posting here.


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## xpolx

It does fascinate me how much the so called counter culture reinforces bullshit mainstream gender values Even in so called queer spaces the reigns can be so tight around expression and terminology to the point of oppressive, iim Lucky to be part of a group of feircly self determining queers who are More I interested iin living loving and learning than being accepted by society and I Hope you find the same.


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## A New Name

This is what happens when we give too much importance to words instead of seeing them for what they are: symbols.


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