# The Great Fraud, the tip of the iceberg.



## RoadFlower33 (Jul 13, 2019)

The tip of the iceberg. 
How do we chisel this mother f***** down? Peacefully. Here we go guys I'm here to propose a huge proposal, an epic idea of Uniting a group to combat the common enemy. it needs to happen nobody's doing it and who are we as an anarchist Community to just sit around and let it happen; when knowledge is power, the tongue is a sword and we can change people's minds, hearts, ideas and way of life. 

We are some of the most woke people in our country some of the most free some of the most capable some of the most die-hard stubborn tough fucks there are. Were smart, we improvise, we conquere, we are in the shadows, we know the ppl better than the ppl know themselves. we all have a common Interest in removing the Universal commercial code from all non commercial entities reinstating the Constitution and taking back the power of the people to the people for the People by the people. 
As we are all aware we're dangerously close to 1984 (if not there now) Nazi Germany, World War 3 and complete Domination of the world. The star ID is going to be the first form of federal identification enacted since World War II in Nazi Germany when Hitler made the Jews get IDs and we're a band around their arm to identify them as a Jew... I'm on a national domestic terrorist list and this is why... 
I'm a motherfuking freedom fighter and I'm here to recruit you!!! stand up and join me? fight your government, save our people save our country! Help bring stability back to the peoples minds. Hope to the poor, freedome to the country. 

this is how I propose we do it. And forgive me because I'm winging it right now, straight raw emotion, unthought through post, I'm open to discuss anything and everything of a certain cognative value. so here we go. 

I propose that through learning and teaching the truth of our economy, government, judicial system and the larger picture that is the collapse of individual rights freedoms and choice. 
I have tons of information, websites and a bad ass mentor to help me learn and guide others. I am here as a member, an American a free man and I will die before i kneel. My last option is violance in strict self defense situations.
My weapon of choice is the pen as it is much mightier than the sword. Time and time again the pen rules the sword. 
Socialism is not okay, communism is not okay our capitalism ways have to change or we as a people are doomed. we are not free. The Roman's are still here. Language is magic, and can convince anybody to do anything if used correctly. And it has been used against us our entire existence. It's time we take back the power. Unite as gentlemen and use the system that has been put onto place to enslave us. We can turn the tables.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 13, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> removing the Universal commercial code from all non commercial entities



You will be pleased to know that your dream has been realized- the UCC (which stands for Uniform, not Universal, Commercial Code) has very little to do with any non-commercial entity, or any transaction that is not business-to-business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
Your mention of the UCC in the same sentence as the Constitution tells me you are listening to people who are nuts, and are quite possibly a nut yourself.

This sort of rhetoric is characteristic of "tax protestor" /"sovereign citizen" folks, the ones who say the gold fringe on the US flag in the court that sentences them to a long prison term for not paying their income tax means the court is an "admiralty court", and thus the sentence is meaningless. This is because Ohio is not really a state, among other nutty and wrong ideas these folks (my first wife's sister is one) have.

_Maybe_ the fringe on the flag means the whole US legal system is somehow fake, but the prison bars work just as well as if the flag had no fringe, and the prison food sucks just as bad.

This stuff is legal surrealism- people with no legal training misunderstanding the law, or straight up making shit up. Every time these ideas are tested in court, they fail. Every time.

*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## SaltyCrew (Jul 13, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> we all have a common Interest in removing the Universal commercial code from all non commercial entities reinstating the Constitution and taking back the power of the people to the people for the People by the people.



Speak for yourself, not others. The Constitution implies having an operating government. How can one be an anarchist and wish to also have the Constitution? You've either contradicted yourself here, or you're not an anarchist yourself. Are you generalizing that everyone here is an anarchist, excluding yourself? Or is your statement false?


----------



## RoadFlower33 (Jul 14, 2019)

🤣omg, I should have known better. I knew We had some serious nimwits on her, but you all know so much about law its amaizing. I wasnt expecting anything less from you guys.... I mean anyone here can tell me what a police officer is correct? I mean why couldent you. You all are so smart and educated In the matter. You could tell me exactly whare to find your original copy of your Birth cert too right? 🤣🤣🤣 

I'm still here for anybody with a ligit respons.


SaltyCrew said:


> Speak for yourself, not others. The Constitution implies having an operating government. How can one be an anarchist and wish to also have the Constitution? You've either contradicted yourself here, or you're not an anarchist yourself. Are you generalizing that everyone here is an anarchist, excluding yourself? Or is your statement false?



I'm excluding myself. I am not an anarchist. I'm a realest and a constitutionalest. Alot of you are anarchest, and I half expected alot of you to know wtf. And I'm sure there are theyr just in the woodworks somplace. 
Older than dirt has apparently done a quick Google search to find the regulated open version, wants to quibble over an auto correct word and is acting as if he has read even a little bit of the ucc to know what it is. People like him are the problem you guys are the problem and it's really funny. I don't give a s*** if you want to be an anarchist it's ridiculous f****** retarded idea you're a bunch of nimwit morons for thinking it would ever work if it's plausible... what the f*** ever, your all just using anarchy as a shield to not face reality. You're against the way the system works but too f****** Nimwitted and dumb to understand or even look into what you're against. you don't even know why the system is the way it is other loans how to f****** deal with it or get rid of a government. you can't even unite, no organization skills a bunch of lazy f***s. then older than dirt with his f****** Google search. he also knows everything about the Uniform Commercial Code but I bet you he has a driver's license registers his car pays his insurance and income taxes on his wages. but you can't even tell me where the law is or what the law is or what the police enforce as law can anybody tell me what the police enforce as law where does it come from who writes it who enforces it? anybody? anybody? If the police enforce the law where does it come from? answer that and then f****** come and try and shut me the fuk down.🤣 good luck. Also find me the law that says you have to pay income tax. If you find that law I'll personally let you cut off my left nut and I'll suck your f****** dick till you come in my mouth.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 14, 2019)

Aha, so you are not just listening to nutty people, you are a full-on nut yourself. 

You are also a rude and abusive asshole, who can't take it when his silly and wrong ideas are challenged, and so resorts to incoherent name-calling, because you can't actually make any argument for your stupid beliefs that any grown person would take seriously.



BirdDaddy said:


> then older than dirt with his f****** Google search. he also knows everything about the Uniform Commercial Code but I bet you he has a driver's license registers his car pays his insurance and income taxes on his wages. but you can't even tell me where the law is or what the law is or what the police enforce as law can anybody tell me what the police enforce as law where does it come from who writes it who enforces it?



Actually, I know what the UCC is from going to law school, and passing a bar exam, dumbass.

No, i do not have a driver's license (and never have). My wife's car is registered and she pays insurance, as required by NY state "Vehicle and Traffic Law", as passed by the NY legislature:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/lawssrch.cgi?NVLWO
The UCC has _nothing whatever_ to do with driver's license, vehicle insurance, and registration requirements.



BirdDaddy said:


> Also find me the law that says you have to pay income tax. If you find that law I'll personally let you cut off my left nut and I'll suck your f****** dick till you come in my mouth.



Thanks for the very kind offer, but i suspect you may not be my type.

However, anyone who wonders where to find "the law that says you have to pay income tax", it is located in Subtitle A, "Income Taxes", of Title 26, "Internal Revenue Code", of the _US Code._

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26
Here is the IRS response to various silly arguments idiots like you make about not having to pay income tax. All these people _always_ lose in court, and then have to pay their taxes and fines, and often go to jail.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/anti-tax-law-evasion-schemes
*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## SaltyCrew (Jul 14, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> I'm excluding myself. I am not an anarchist. I'm a realest and a constitutionalest. Alot of you are anarchest, and I half expected alot of you to know wtf.



Thank you for clarifying that. That's all I was curious about. Carry on...


----------



## roughdraft (Jul 14, 2019)

alrighty.....

I´m an idealistic and romantic person who also plummets into cynicism, I too "wanted to save the world" many times over, and even got into trying to understand some more practical means to get it poppin´, and I know nothing about all this shit yáll are talkin and don´t purport myself to understand, but I´m gonna sit my dish at the potluck here and whoever wants to take a bite by all means go hammer

"language is magic" yeah that could be, unfortunately there are 7 billion + magicians out there 24/7/365 all casting spells at the same damn time, what are you gonna do about that?

As well, it seems like ´you´ want people to just kneel, ironic as fuck isn´t that, and ess yr dee. - you wanna "unite as gentlemen" then as soon as someone wants to offer THEIR counterpoint, shit, not even properly BEGINNING to explain their full stance, it´s "Yáll are fuckin nimwits blah blah blah" so.......

Enough said!


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 14, 2019)

roughdraft said:


> I know nothing about all this shit yáll are talkin and don´t purport myself to understand



For you, and anyone else who can't figure out what @BirdDaddy is saying, or what i am saying in response, BirdDaddy has become a believer in certain ideas of the ultra-rightwing "sovereign citizen" ideology.

"Sovereign citizens" believe the US Federal government is a private corporation owned by the Queen of England, or the Rockefellers, or the Jews, or the Freemasons, or some other amorphous bad thing. Modern currencies aren't really money because they are not gold. They also believe that income taxes are voluntary or that the laws authorizing them are illegitimate (this is where Ohio not really being a state comes in) but that you certainly don't have to pay them, unless your mail is addressed to you with a zipcode, or with your name as it appears on government documents (they like to add lots of punctuation in the bizarre belief that courts will care).

i am not making any of this up. My ex-sister-in-law has been a tax-protesting, no-zipcodes, _Protocols of the elders of Zion _nutcase for 30 years.

here are some references for those unfamiliar with this strain of rightwing nonsense:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
Of course, everything "sovereign citizens" believe is bullshit, and those who follow through on these beliefs tend to end up shot dead by the armed state agents who will come and find you if you break enough laws, or sentenced by judges who don't give a fuck how you punctuate your name or that you don't like flags with gold fringe, or just paying a shitload of fines to the IRS if they conclude you are more deluded than evil. Google Wesley Snipes' tax history if you doubt this. If you think you may do better than a rich Hollywood actor, you do you as the kids say; *see disclaimer below!!!*

One more time, from the folks who send the armed state agents:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p3995.pdf

*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## RoadFlower33 (Jul 14, 2019)

Just to clarify old as dirt has no clue what he's talking about a sovereign citizen cannot exist does not exist will never exist and I am not in that group of people. 🤣 every time he types something it just makes him seam way more dumb than the time before. y'all probably have a lot of the same opinion about me as well lol. too bad I don't care. Don't read too much into all this dirt opinion though do your own research as well as what I'm saying in my opinion. don't take me for granted do your own research I might be crazy but if I wasn't a little crazy I don't know... I wouldn't be sane that's for sure... I know the law I know maritime law I know common law and I know Uniform Commercial Code . this guy's obviously just doing Google and wiki searches really fast to try and counter everything I say. I'm not even going to give him the decency of arguing with him. he has his opinion he's obviously old as dirt and dumb as f***. He has nothing of any value to contribute except for fast Google searches he's probably never been to a law library in his life. Honestly after reading a lot of older dirt opinions on squat the planet I feel like he's just a troll anyhow he's always trolling people just being angry for angry sake.

Also there is a legitimate $5000000 reward being offered for the person who can find the law that states you have to pay income tax on your services. You know why it's there because it's illegal to charge taxes on personal services there is actually a law that states that. Do your own research.
I personally have been contracting for 10 years every time I sign into a contract I'm paid b via business my services are not taxed only the material in which I use are taxed I make great money I don't pay taxes outside of sales tax I don't have a driver's license I don't register insure my vehicles you know what I'm not I'm not in jail... funny how that works huh UCC Section 1 - 3 0 8.


----------



## blank (Jul 14, 2019)

Older Than Dirt said:


> *ex*-sister-in-law


Sounds like a lucky break. 

These things always make for such fun court cases.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Jul 14, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> 🤣omg, I should have known better. I knew We had some serious nimwits on her, but you all know so much about law its amaizing. I wasnt expecting anything less from you guys.... I mean anyone here can tell me what a police officer is correct? I mean why couldent you. You all are so smart and educated In the matter. You could tell me exactly whare to find your original copy of your Birth cert too right? 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> I'm still here for anybody with a ligit respons.
> 
> ...



okay @BirdDaddy i need you to calm down. I know you're upset, but name calling doesn't just make your argument look super weak, it's against our forum rules. I wasn't going to issue you a warning cause @Older Than Dirt so thouroughly destroyed what you're saying with... you know... _facts_, but then you continued to name call and just generally sounds like a wacko.

so I anticipate this being your last warning before getting banned, but you could prove me wrong by calming down and treating this discussion in a more civil manner.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 14, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> I know the law I know maritime law I know common law and I know Uniform Commercial Code . this guy's obviously just doing Google and wiki searches really fast to try and counter everything I say. I'm not even going to give him the decency of arguing with him. he has his opinion he's obviously old as dirt and dumb as f***. He has nothing of any value to contribute except for fast Google searches he's probably never been to a law library in his life. Honestly after reading a lot of older dirt opinions on squat the planet I feel like he's just a troll anyhow he's always trolling people just being angry for angry sake.



Never been to a law library in my life?!?!

Oh, if only it were _true_, and i had all those wasted years in my early 30s back!

One more time: i am a graduate of a very reputable law school, with very high grades, who passed the NY bar exam (one of the hardest in the US). I also have a PhD in criminology, which certainly draws on my legal knowledge. i taught legal topics at the undergrad level for 20 years.

Before that, i was an outlaw anarchist punk-rock skinhead hoodlum and drug dealer on the Lower East Side in the '80s; i was a NYC bike messenger in the glory days of that profession ('70's-'00s). There's a lot more i've done i won't mention.

I am more of an outlaw than you will ever be, and unlike you, i also have professional legal training, and lots of first-hand Federal court experience.

You (@BirdDaddy) have literally _no idea what you are talking about;_ that you get away with driving in Idaho with no plates or license or insurance (do they even have cops there?), and don't make enough $ to get on the IRS' radar proves nothing.

Stop being a prick for a minute, and as you keep saying, "do your research"., only really do it this time, instead of relying only on fringe nut-bar sites. Read the IRS links i provided.



BirdDaddy said:


> Also there is a legitimate $5000000 reward being offered for the person who can find the law that states you have to pay income tax on your services.



How do i collect? See IRS links in post #7 above. Could use the $.

Also, while i may well be "dumb as f***", i am in fact (as my user name suggests) not as "_old_ as dirt", but am in fact "_older_ than dirt".

I was around when the stuff was _invented_, son; never thought it would catch on.

*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## RoadFlower33 (Jul 14, 2019)

Okay, okay okay, so I admit I got riled up. Honestly I am a peaceful person, I swear. I get a bit touchy and a tad emotional on the subject. I knew this was possible qgoing into it. Even told myself I was going to be cool. as the internet does not supply accurate information on the topic at all and I'm hundreds of miles from my own business home and paperwork; I dont have the currant resource to combat older than dirts time and misleading information. I will gladly do so with time.

Also I apologize for my rash Behavior, I'm normaly the ass to those being an ass and here I am being an ass... I probably shouldn't use talk to text as it allows me to send shitt before I clearly think it through or even proof read alot of the time.
This post was not to convince anybody but simply make ppl question. 
As for the entire straw man pose, or the sovern citizen thing.... yeah okay I admit I never read anything more than a paragraph of what older than dirt wrote, but I never claimed to be trying for sovereignty. And to be put in said catagory of nimwits is insulting as I am educated and living the life I'm preaching. A cop hasent searched me in over 5 years. Not to say I havent been stopped or pulled over I just refuse to contract in the ucc and they have to respect that as policy enforcers. Policy enforcers.... I am long winded as fuck and will eventually read what older than dirt posted and combat when I have my paper.
.... Matt had told me already to wait with this until I had a more physical, actionable plan in place. He obviously knows this community better than I.
Planting seeds for thought was my plan. Did it work? idk. Will I continue? Yes. My only request is that you look into what your "c" account is, how to obtain it, how to use it and why it is there. 
This is a rather serious subject and to say older than dirt combated me with facts is an opinion as his facts are false misleading and inaccurate obtained from unreliable sources. I will the sharing more factual based researchable evidence as soon as I can get back to Colorado.... till then. 

Again sorry for loosing my shit. I am working daily on my ego. Have been for years. I need 3rd party criticism as much as anyone and I'm totally not upset for having received it. Thanks. You guys handled me well. After reading my own posts ( should have done that first) I was way out of line. This is why I'm still here after 8 years. 
Cheers.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 14, 2019)

Glad you are calming down, @BirdDaddy.

Maybe you should actually read the shit i posted, the shit you said was ignorant and wrong _without reading it_.

You might learn something; you may find that the IRS is at least as familiar with US tax law as that guy Clem with the "Buy American!!" hat, and the AK-47, that you met at the bar.

Getting away with not filing, or paying, income tax is easy; i did it every single year of my life from when i started working at 14 til 26, and then from 27 to 42. It does not prove that you don't have a legal obligation to file, only that you are too small-time for The Man to bother prosecuting you and locking you up.

FYI, I scammed on my income taxes as a bike messenger/cook/drug dealer from my teens til i applied for student loans in my late 20s to get a BA.

After i realized (after filing taxes once) that all the university Financial Aid office wanted to see was a tax return (that they had no way of knowing whether it had been filed or not), i stopped filing again until i married an immigrant in my early 40s, and had to show _real_ tax returns to the INS (now ICE) to get her green card. Unlike the NYU Financial Aid office, the immigration folks check with their pals across the hall at the IRS (private entities can't see tax returns, but fellow Feds can (sometimes but not always)).

_Now_, i add, after reviewing, i am kosher as a Passover dinner, and cleaner than two whistles. My shit has been _correct_ for more than 20 years now (had to file back taxes for three years at age 42, for anyone who thinks they've caught me out). Just so you know.

*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## roughdraft (Jul 14, 2019)

it´s an emotional struggle for everyone, to an extent @BirdDaddy 

taking rein over yr emotions is an essential aspect of it, as you know, best wishes


----------



## Coywolf (Jul 14, 2019)

Older Than Dirt said:


> Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should _always_ get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, _anything whatever_.



This alone speaks to @Older Than Dirt 's legal experience. And I salute him for being a responsible poster by including it.

Christ, I feel like I've seen this exact conversation get out of hand on StP more than once.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 14, 2019)

@Coywolf- Just trying not to get nailed for unauthorized practice of law, or having some nutbar imagine a lawyer/client relationship might exist between me and them because they read something i wrote about some legal matter.

I don't feel like i have to include this disclaimer when posting about polycro groundsheets, or whatever, but i have no desire for stern letters from the NY (or Idaho!) bar ethics folks, so it seemed prudent to include in posts _here_.

But surely not _this_ one, which expresses no opinion about any legal matter? Oh how wrong you'd be if you thought that. They are stern folk that bar committee.

*Disclaimer: i do not practice law. Nothing contained in this post is legal advice. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before doing, or failing to do, anything whatever.*


----------



## benton (Jul 20, 2019)

my view is that until Americans stop voting for Republicans and Democrats, there is no chance for a government that serves the people


----------



## Deleted member 25988 (Jul 21, 2019)

Older Than Dirt said:


> You will be pleased to know that your dream has been realized- the UCC (which stands for Uniform, not Universal, Commercial Code) has very little to do with any non-commercial entity, or any transaction that is not business-to-business.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code
> Your mention of the UCC in the same sentence as the Constitution tells me you are listening to people who are nuts, and are quite possibly a nut yourself.
> ...


 Great post man, agree with everything that you wrote here.


----------



## paiche (Jul 21, 2019)

BirdDaddy said:


> The tip of the iceberg.
> How do we chisel this mother f***** down? Peacefully...
> I'm a motherfuking freedom fighter and I'm here to ...
> Socialism is not okay, communism is not okay our capitalism ways have to change or we as a people are doomed. we are not free. The Roman's are still here. Language is magic, and can convince anybody to do anything if used correctly. And it has been used against us our entire existence. It's time we take back the power. Unite as gentlemen and use the system that has been put onto place to enslave us. We can turn the tables.


I'm totally loving your attitude here. Don't lose the passion. We can pick apart your words and your politics but whatever man your heart is in the right place. Keep that open slayin.


----------



## Older Than Dirt (Jul 21, 2019)

All fine with the passion, but there is also something to having _some fucking clue to what you are talking about_ before you start foaming at the mouth in public about a bunch of untrue shit you recently "learned".

No lawerly disclaimer here, because this post is not about law, but rather about how not to "show your ass", a slang term that i hope i do not have to explain to you young people. Perhaps it is still current among the youths, or even self-explanatory.


----------



## RoadFlower33 (Jul 22, 2019)

Older than dirt.... it is disappointing how little you actually know. For obviously being not a dumb person you sure seem to be blind to what is happening in our economy. Believe what the tell you. To say you are not a commercial entity is obscured and obsured. All persons in America are commerciall. And I didnt just learn any of this btw, It has been a thing in my life for a long time many years. It's tough finding honest true information. You can may say all you want. I gave up on old ppl like you a long time ago. You are the problem with society and poisoning it constantly with your old ideas of conformity and socialism, bow to the man bc he says so. And you think were free? Honestly free? Not governed by a code for commercial entitys.... but we are indeed commerce and we are indeed signed into a contract with the ucc. What do you think your w2 is man? A contract with the ucc? You will debate this and say how it is not a contract agreeing to garnish wages that are spacifcly not taxable by law unles you sign an agreement... but that's ok. I know better. Call me unlearned or foaming at the mouth lol. This guy dosent care what you think. Obviously no one here has a clue what I'm talking about and are just as lost and clueless as you are. Believing the most simple answer. But honestly look at the facts. Ucc 1-308 is the basis of our slavery and its blatant as fuck. Nobody is hiding it. The constitution is worthless and we are not free lol. For you to say I'm not a commercial entity or persons is ludicrous. But you say I pay taxes and I register my vehicle with the DMV... that's not commercial at all.... ok. Think what you like. Do as suits you now. It's okay to be a good slave. The bible tells you to be a good slave and you are obviously a great slave. Fighting for your rights to be a slave 🤣🤣🤣😋 I love you enthusiastic slave person. Look up the definition of citizen for me please? Post that on here so everyone can see what you are, really...


----------

