# r/vagabond Admins censoring at their own will



## warlo (Jan 30, 2016)

I imagine that some people who check this place also check www.reddit.com/r/vagabond.

I have been around there for a while, didn't had a user until a few days ago. I thought it was a good place to comment every now and then so I created one. I had read that people complained a lot about the Admin there, called Huckstah. Lots of people talk shit about him (not that I care or confirm it). One of the complains is that he is deleting lots of valid posts and comments. I read his defense where he says, quote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_huckstah Hobo 1 point 19 hours ago 

No posts have been deleted lately, and this post itself is just another lame attempt to slander my name and cause subreddit drama. If anyone wishes to see the moderator log, I'll be happy to screenshot it and show proof of that. Trolls have been banned, and reported spam posts have been deleted, but there hasn't been any major drama with posts being deleted in anyway whatsoever. _
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_Funny enough, this was a reply on a thread that later was deleted. In such thread, people ask why this and that thread was deleted, only to get answers like this from the admin. 

Here's the link to the thread (reddit seems to keep a copy even if its deleted from the sub)

In that thread, I asked why a thread that I was interested in and had my own input in had been deleted. I understand the need to delete spam and obvious trolls, but there was no evidence at all of any of both things there. After a couple minutes of my comment being posted, the thread was deleted (not that it was because of me)

This is the thread being deleted
_
Like I said, I've been around there for a while and read lots of complains about people having interesting threads being deleted for mysterious reasons. So I can imagine that lots of good info and inputs from people have been censored, in my opinion, based on the ideals of the admins and what they think its good and what its not.

I understand that nobody invites you in and that if you don't like it you can stay away from that place. But I believe in honesty. If this people wanna have a subreddit in which they exercise plain censorship of whatever they believe should not be discussed there, they should make it very clear so people don't waste their time to later find out that it wasn't a good place, maybe even join other places and recommend other people not to go there but (for example) here instead, or even create new sites. But of course this is not done, as the idea is to still look cool right? and which censor you know who has a cool reputation these days?

Very recently, a new sticky post "New subreddit rules" was posted by the admin.
Still denies valid posts being deleted and gives a very vague definition of what will be censored in the future. In my view, total failure at defining what they actually mean with theyr subreddit.

I don't know about you people, but I'm against all kinds of censorship. Sorry to bring the drama here, but since it cannot be discussed over there as the post will be deleted for sure, I bring the discussion to STP, with the hopes that this will stir a nice discussion on freedom of expression and anti censorship on the internet, specially at STP


----------



## etpyh (Jan 30, 2016)

warlo said:


> Sorry to bring the drama here, but since it cannot be discussed over there as the post will be deleted for sure, I bring the discussion to STP


If I am not mistaken huckstah is a fellow STP member named @Hobo Huck so maybe he will explain himself here (again).


----------



## landpirate (Jan 30, 2016)

Well as a moderator on here, I will say that I haven't and to my knowledge nobody else has censored anything written here unless it breaks the very clear and open rules of the forum.

I'll be honest and say I read stuff on here that I think is boring and sometimes irrelevant to what this forum is about. I even read stuff that I disagree with or that offends me but I'm not going to delete it, I just don't read it again. There's enough internet for everyone to be able to say everything, but sometimes people just need to make the right choices about where they vent their views.

I don't know anything about the vagabond reddit thing as I've not used it, but you can be safe in the knowledge that there's nothing fishy going on here.


----------



## Tude (Jan 30, 2016)

Yeah - I second with what @landpirate stated.

And to add, we (mods and the admin) really are transparent here with follow up as to what we say or do and follow the site mod rules that are open for people to view. Plus we mods and admin have a meeting room where we can discuss what we think is going on, like a potential situation or a post that has been reported, etc and decide what to do about it ... and based upon, decision we do it. 

Drama - meh - have had some but that is minor, we are really open minded here I think.


----------



## iamwhatiam (Jan 30, 2016)

I don't see what the big deal is? he only says he's deleting posts that are obviously trolling/spamming or talking unnecessary shit about other users/homeless lifestyle. The same thing happens here on STP except you get issued several warnings before being banned.

And deleting posts asking information about trainhopping that is already available using the search engine and/or sidebar is not a bad thing, is it? I know I get annoyed sometimes seeing numerous posts every month from new users that are too lazy/ignorant to use the search engine.

Also, as most people know Huck and his crew are busy roadtrippin and taking on different volunteer projects at the moment. I'm sure the last thing he wants or needs to do is further defend himself on here when he's quite clearly stated the why's and how's of it on his subreddit.


----------



## Hillbilly Castro (Jan 31, 2016)

Either way, that sub is so blown up with his life that it's more like /r/huckstah...


----------



## warlo (Jan 31, 2016)

I want to make it clear that I am not implying there is censorship in here, but i think its great to have some sort of confirmation or discussion

about what iamwhatiam says, I dont think you get the point of what im saying. Its not about people asking about freight hopping, its about people asking whatever else and having their threads deleted.


----------



## warlo (Jan 31, 2016)

by the way, I have just been banned from r/vagabond, truly amazing. I think a point has been made here.


you've been banned from /r/vagabond
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
subreddit message via /r/vagabond[M] sent 1 day ago

you have been banned from posting to /r/vagabond.

you can contact the moderators regarding your ban by replying to this message. *warning*: using other accounts to circumvent a subreddit ban is considered a violation of reddit's site rules and can result in being banned from reddit entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is is why.
someone re-posted a question about censorship I had made in one of the censored threads.



sexyrexy1989 1 point 1 day ago 

Message from /u/warlo_bonsai

I would like to get an explanation on why the post with title "What the admin of Squat the Planet thinks about labeling travelers and "real" hobos" " has been deleted. I understand the need to delete spam and troll attacks, but if somebody identifies that thread as any of those two categories, then he/she don't really understand their real meaning or its practicing plain censorship.

I've been following this reddit for a long time, created an account some days ago because I thought was a good place to contribute to, this thread being among the first ones I decided my voice could have added something to the matter makes me very upset about this place, as this seems to be plain censorship to me.

If whoever did this thinks she/he can decide what we will argue about, then should consider making it a public thing so that we dont waste our time believing this is a good place.

huckstahHobo[S] 2 points 1 day ago 

I find it rather fitting that both your account and warlos accounts are obvious throwaway accounts. Keep it up trolls 

sexyrexy1989 0 points 1 day ago 

What is your definition of trolling? Are new accounts banned from the discussion?

huckstahHobo[S] 2 points 1 day ago 

Throwaway accounts that instigate harassment and subreddit drama at r/vagabond will be banned.

sexyrexy1989 0 points 1 day ago 

Do you have a distinction between disagreement and harassment? If so, would you answer the first question on how that deleted post is harassment.

huckstahHobo[S] 1 point 1 day ago 

I'm going to explain this to you like a 5 year old, since that's obviously how you need things explained.

The post you are referring to was a bullshit post that was intended to do nothing but stir up drama in our subreddit, and it's no coincidence that it was submitted by a throwaway account used purely for harassing our subreddit. It's also no coincidence that the only person defending such a shitty post is also a brand new throwaway account.

Now, right now I'm clearing out invasive plants species at a local marsh with 6 other redditors, as opposed to sitting on my ass at home or office with nothing better to do that to annoy people online like a teenager. You have wasted enough of my time, so you might want to create a new throwaway account since this account will now be blocked.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Isn't this way out of hand? I mean, this guy confuses disagreement and negativity (not even mentioning critical thinking) with trolling instantly and hits the ban button without thinking for a second. I dont believe I have provided anything for him to hold the thought that im a troll, I even commented heavily on other posts before ever saying something about a post that had been deleted and BAM, got banned and labeled as troll. Isn't that fucking annoying?


----------



## landpirate (Jan 31, 2016)

yep it's annoying but not a lot we can do about it here. If you don't like the way they operate then vote with your feet and don't go on the website. i don't really know what else to say. Sadly that sort of thing happens all the time in forums.


----------



## Dmac (Jan 31, 2016)

hobo huck claims to be "the voice of the traveling community" so obviously, if you don't agree with him, you don't belong.


----------



## roguetrader (Feb 1, 2016)

i'm sure i read a post describing STP as "full of oogles and wannabees" from one of their regular crew the other day ! there's definitely a "superior" air to a lot of the content from Huck and his buddies - they seem very keen that everyone is correctly labelled and aware of his/her status in the underground hierachy... hobo's > train hoppers > backpackers > homebums > amoeba's etc ... anyone who refers to themselves as a vagabond is a bit confused in my opinion, seeing as this was a term coined in the Middle Ages to describe wandering criminals ! (suppose it sounds more rock n' roll than 'i live in a van')...... being in the UK observing these two similar sites with a bit of critical distance i"ve concluded that STP is the more open minded, inclusive community and r / vadge-abond has the feel of 'mine own personal fifedom ruled with a rod of iron' so i could easily see posts that didn't suit being removed....


----------



## warlo (Feb 1, 2016)

Fuck this guy, he is such an ass hole. I wrote him a private message telling him that im no troll / throwaway account as he described me in order to ban me and delete posts and comments, to do so, I invited him to check this post to confirm its me under this account and see that im an active user under the same account in many places to make sure im no troll. so what he says?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You act like a butthurt little child. Funny but kinda sad as well. I'm busy installing a kitchen on a bus right now so unfortunately I don't have time to read your forum post and I can't even remember my STP password since I haven't used it in a few months. However I'm sure it will be interesting so make sure to slander me till your hearts content! Good luck!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fucking annoying power-craze dude right there if you ask me.


edit: I guess its unfair to publish his messages and not mines, so here it goes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to huckstah sent 16 hours ago


https://squattheplanet.com/threads/r-vagabond-admins-censoring-at-their-own-will.26621/

I invite you to STP, where we can discuss this matter like adults and where you don't have the mighty ban button to censor me  there and on my website you might confirm that not only im not a troll or a throwaway account, but that i have been a traveller for years and also a real person who has real opinions. Problem is that you dont like opinions that hurts, right?

Seriously, I think your attitude is pathetic, I totally understand the need to delete spam and troll messages, but this goes way too far. you are neglecting people like me, people that has not only opinions that are worth something but also experience and stuff to add to your site other than your constant self promotion and stupid look at me pictures. Just because I think that people who label themselves as hobos and dirty kids are ego-pathetic and that includes you, oh mighty admin, I am labeled as a troll / throwaway account? I think you are way high on yourself mister admin. please take a closer look at your actions and learn to take some critique.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## roguetrader (Feb 1, 2016)

@warlo having read a few of both yours and huckstahs posts i know whose being childish..... and he ain't Norwegian ! stick with the upper crusties hear at STP brother....


----------



## warlo (Feb 1, 2016)

roguetrader said:


> @warlo having read a few of both yours and huckstahs posts i know whose being childish..... and he ain't Norwegian ! stick with the upper crusties hear at STP brother....



Thanks! I like this place, and regardless of this or other situations in similar sites I have decided that my cents are worth and appreciated in here, so here I am. 
I just feel a bit bad to rant so much about this. But if there is any reason why I bring this here is because I think its important to keep the censorship debate alive. I have decided to stay as far as I can from r/vagabond, but I dont think the matter should be let go that easily. Most people are horrified by, say, Chinese censorship, and expect others to do something about it. I say that as long as I have no power against Chinese government, I'll fight against any form of censorship that is presented to me.


----------



## kecleon (Feb 1, 2016)

I'm not being funny, why do you care this much? It's just boring to drag all these things out and not worth caring about. I understand why they deleted your post. By being like oh such and such says this super reasonable shit that obviously no one disagrees with like implying whoever's running that reddit doesn't its just like trying to start a fight where everyone takes everyone's words all outta context and brings up shit they said ages ago. It's like old unhappy married couples fighting.

For me get over it, its just starting drama for no reason. If you're bored go do something. This isn't worth anyone times man..

I don't know you or him or anyone involved but I just feel like who cares, yknow??? Put it all to rest and go do something worth time.


----------



## iamwhatiam (Feb 1, 2016)

warlo said:


> about what iamwhatiam says, I dont think you get the point of what im saying. Its not about people asking about freight hopping, its about people asking whatever else and having their threads deleted.



So you're okay with people blowing up a forum asking the same basic questions when you can easily use the search function and get the answer to it. Don't you think it sucks to have to weed through 100s of posts asking the same stupid obvious things like "Can someone give me a crew change guide"? How do I hop a train? How do I stay warm at night?"

I mean....Can you give some specific instances of people's threads being deleted? What were they asking in their threads?


----------



## warlo (Feb 2, 2016)

iamwhatiam said:


> So you're okay with people blowing up a forum asking the same basic questions when you can easily use the search function and get the answer to it. Don't you think it sucks to have to weed through 100s of posts asking the same stupid obvious things like "Can someone give me a crew change guide"? How do I hop a train? How do I stay warm at night?"
> 
> I mean....Can you give some specific instances of people's threads being deleted? What were they asking in their threads?



Could you read the OP? I think you haven't and you are kinda stuck in something. There I give examples of threads being deleted that have nothing to do with asking questions about things that are in the sidebar of the website or the kind of stuff you are revering to. This guy is basically deleting whatever he dont like, PLUS repetitive questions that were answered before or the answers are on the sidebar, but mainly, he is deleting whatever he feels like deleting, which is very upsetting considering that is a public forum.




jimyf said:


> I'm not being funny, why do you care this much? It's just boring to drag all these things out and not worth caring about. I understand why they deleted your post. By being like oh such and such says this super reasonable shit that obviously no one disagrees with like implying whoever's running that reddit doesn't its just like trying to start a fight where everyone takes everyone's words all outta context and brings up shit they said ages ago. It's like old unhappy married couples fighting.
> 
> For me get over it, its just starting drama for no reason. If you're bored go do something. This isn't worth anyone times man..
> 
> I don't know you or him or anyone involved but I just feel like who cares, yknow??? Put it all to rest and go do something worth time.




Wel, first. You might not care about it, many other people might not care about it, but others do. And there is nothing wrong about posting this which im posting. Its not like im shoveling it into your brain, you can also simply ignore this thread and then there is no issue being discussed in your world, right? then the people who care can come and discuss and others can do whatever they believe its important. 

Also, its not like this takes me much time. I opened an account there a couple days ago, posted something, got deleted, asked why, got banned, got upset, came here, posted this and every now and then I reply to comments. In between, I have a very rich life, full of happenings that do not involve this thread or subject. So dont try to make me look like im wasting my time here or that im just sitting by the computer hitting refresh to see how many wanna join my revolution against r/vagabond, because it isnt the case.

Also, I dont understand why you say you get why I got deleted. I was posting warnings about a sect that runs all over the world where me and some friends got caught by accident, I was developing the case with many other users to bring a solid warning based on experience. My other contribution to r/vagabond was a reply to a discussion where people were having an argument about "what being hobo means"and why STP Admin's opinion was so important to come to a decision (like administering a website gives you definition powers) and since it seems like people cant check a dictionary I did and answered that im tired of that fucking discussion and people taking labels so importantly in their life. I didnt even attacked the admin of that subreddit as you are implying, I didnt attacked anybody personally, I just said what I thought about the subject and then the thread got deleted. Then I asked why and got banned. Does that sounds like a reasonable thing to you? not to me. Then I PM the admin telling him im no troll and giving him easy proof to check (in a thread he said i was a throwaway account) hoping my account could go online again so that I could continue with the 12 tribes sect thread, as I was happy to see lots of people contributing to something I believe its important to warn people about. And he basically says to me fuck off, I dont give a shit if you are a troll or not. which of course makes me upsets and gives me the little energy that is necesary to produce a a thread like this (which is not much more than a cup of coffee and some porridge)

So yeah, sorry for using forums for discussing things that matter to me, specially when it involves the traveling community. Excuse me if I misunderstood the function of such places (NOT)


----------



## kecleon (Feb 2, 2016)

I meant I understand why it's deleted not why you got banned. I. Don't want to get in an internet argument if it means a lot to you of course you can discuss away here or whatever. I just don't like all the infighting weird drama shit that seems to be creeping in a lot of communities I'm involved in


----------



## Wingate (Feb 2, 2016)

Huck doesn't seem to understand that this is the internet and sometimes ideas get popular and people want to try them out.

This whole "you MUST! be houseless" thing is ridiculous. Vagabonds in the original sense don't even exist anymore, everyone is just throwing a label onto something we all love doing; traveling.

Honestly if you travel for a living aren't you technically houseless anyways? I think huck is a little irritated that not everyone see's it "his way" and lumps anyone who disagrees with him into the troll crowd.

And if someone brings up a good point, he'll reiterate with "im too busy doing xx on the vagabus to deal with trolls" as if his Vagabus is some god's gift to the western hemisphere when in reality they've gone probably less than 500 miles in 5 months.

This drama started when people took issue with the vagueness and ambiguity of the vagabus project after Huck started asking for money from the internet (same community he's going ape over right now) to pay his way. People wanted answers and Huck didn't like the questions.

Now anyone who doesn't live the huck lifestyle isn't allowed to post on r/vagabond. 

To me, this does nothing to aid the travel community. There are no vagabonds, hobos, tramps anymore. Those people were homeless and looking for work because they had to do that to survive in a time that was a million times harder than today. People who intentionally look like a hobo or like getting dirty are just romanticizing a long lost lifestyle. 

It's not hard to stay clean and respectable as a traveler. But if we're too clean? Guess were not homeless enough for Huck.


----------



## roguetrader (Feb 2, 2016)

from my own experiences on the Euro vehicle travelling scene, i find the people most ready to pour scorn and hate on those 'beneath' them are always the ones who are the least travelled / accomplished themselves.... those confident in their own abilities and achievements don't feel threatened by people new to the scene or the younger generation.... personally i find newbies and greenhorns to often be fun - very keen and enthusiastic ; this is a pretty big generalisation but can be true in the same way that veterans are frequently the most cynical and jaded !


----------



## warlo (Feb 2, 2016)

jimyf said:


> I meant I understand why it's deleted not why you got banned. I. Don't want to get in an internet argument if it means a lot to you of course you can discuss away here or whatever. I just don't like all the infighting weird drama shit that seems to be creeping in a lot of communities I'm involved in


Dont worry, I am not intending to drama with you, and I misunderstood as if you said the whole deal was being properly handled by huckstah. Anyways, I still disagree with (at least) that thread being deleted, there was nothing wrong with it except that this guy's feelings got hurt as he identifies as Hobo.


----------



## iamwhatiam (Feb 2, 2016)

all I would say is take it up with the higher up redditors if you don't like the way huck is administering the site. that or start your own subreddit. what are you expecting anybody here at STP to do about it?


----------



## roguetrader (Feb 2, 2016)

He's just letting us know about the issue because many people who visit STP also seem to visit r/vagabond and may be interested - it might be because its Winter and I got nothing better to do but it seems relevant to me - I thought forums were for sounding out a lot of different opinions....


----------



## iamwhatiam (Feb 2, 2016)

yea, forums are for sounding out different opinions. but I guess that's all this thread is for then, to vent frustration and opinions. unless there is some kind of action that is going to be produced from it...we are just "kicking a can" around so to speak, and it seems pretty trivial to me

so far I've pretty much only seen posts badmouthing Huck, yet no one has suggested any kind of solution to the problem


----------



## Dmac (Feb 2, 2016)

@Wingate very well said.


----------



## iamwhatiam (Feb 2, 2016)

go ahead and dislike my post even tho its the truth. you can continue to bitch about huck and r/vagabond while nothing gets done about it. this thread is a waste of time


----------



## Dmac (Feb 2, 2016)

@iamwhatiam , why did you post in it 5 times if it is a "waste of time"?


----------



## tintinhurray (Feb 3, 2016)

*(Directed at this Huck character, referring to his "IamA" Reddit post). Yes I know this is a bit off topic, but hell..*

You mean you were chased by a bunch of drug-hyped killers wielding guns that felt like you owed them something and just _ran_ away from them?
"Hawaiian mafia", "Tijuana cartel", "Jewish mafia", "Colombian cartel"...
Sounds like nothin' but story telling, to me.
Nonetheless, why in the hell would _anyone_ feel proud of being a supporter of such an immoral organization as the cartel?...

This kind of big-headed behavior is so childish and yet it seems as though people take a liking to that kind of shit. It's a trait of the sheeple.

*warlo* seems both idealistic and respectful in his post, but he's getting a bunch of shit. Strange.

Anyways, cheers! ::


----------



## roguetrader (Feb 3, 2016)

question for Matt or the Mod Team relating to this ish - do you have much of a problem with trolls here at STP ? after reading a fair few posts at r/Vagabond it seems like Huckstah and his crew are dealing with them all the time.. although obviously what constitutes trolling behaviour is highly debatable - Huck constantly refers to people stirring up drama on the site - i have not noticed much of this here at STP.... i have heard it said that the best way to deal with trolls is not taking the bait and getting wound up - they are trying to get a reaction out of people after all - if you don't play they go away, yeah ?


----------



## Wingate (Feb 3, 2016)

Huck is ridiculous. This "it hurts my ears" nonsense is crazy. This is from his reddit post explaining the contents of his bag. He also mentions starting a travel blog or doc, things he talked shit on recently,

"
They're not trolls by any means, they're usually people who just highly disagree with him or the lifestyle asking questions. He doesn't like that. Him automatically labeling people who disagree with him as trolls is a huge fallacy.


----------



## MolotovMocktail (Feb 3, 2016)

This thread has run its course and is starting to devolve into personal attacks so I'm locking it. If you must continue this conversation, you can take it to private messages but it's not serving any productive purpose as a public thread.


----------



## Matt Derrick (Feb 3, 2016)

So, not that anyone asked me to, but I've decided I'm going to throw in my two cents on this issue.

First, I've been offline while all this went down, so I'm just reading about it now. I don't know what threads were deleted, and what wasn't or what hobohuck's thought process was when removing any threads. all in all, it seems like a lot of people getting upset about a whole lot of nothing.

as for @MolotovMocktail 's decision to lock this thread, i stand by it. frankly this thread wasn't going anywhere for quite a few posts, and towards the end it was clearly going the route of a flame war against someone that isn't here to defend themselves. Also, this thread doesn't really have much to do with StP or even the travel community, but more had to do with a disagreement between two people. this disagreement didn't take place on StP, and doesn't really have much to do with it, other than possibly serving as an example to others what can happen in these situations. so if that was the purpose of creating this thread, i believe it's accomplished that.

@warlo unfortunately some things are just outside your control. one of the great things about the internet is that if you don't like the way it's being done somewhere you can always go do it yourself somewhere else (or join a different group of people doing the same thing).

@warlo you also reported @MolotovMocktail 's post announcing the locking of this thread with the following message:



> seriously? locking a post that is discussing censorship in another forum that wont let the discussion go? where are we supposed to have this conversation then? I dont see the point of having it locked, no one has been getting its feelings hurt or expressed anything close to that as of yet. really, is this serious??? cant admin / mods of forums take a bit of discussion? Im starting to believe that its not possible to talk about anything serious on the online traveler community.



in order to keep discussions on track and relevant to the community, we sometimes lock, edit, or delete threads in order to keep StP a fun and interesting place for the community as a whole. no one likes reading a message board full of spam and flame wars. we have not deleted your thread, so we haven't censored you; we've merely done our jobs by keeping a thread from devolving into a flame war no one was interested in (there are several comments in this thread from StP members stating this).


----------

