# Heads up- July 17 ICE protests



## phantomcat

Anybody gonna be at the July 17 protests? If there's not one in your city friggen start one! Check the images with info from @occupyICEpdx. They've been occupying the ice prison there for weeks, and I'm about to head up there to join them!


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## phantomcat

@Matt Derrick could you or another moderator pls move this thread to the politics forum I somehow missed? (not surprising having shit service in this desert) or should I just delete and repost? Thx!


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## Matt Derrick

phantomcat said:


> @Matt Derrick could you or another moderator pls move this thread to the politics forum I somehow missed? (not surprising having shit service in this desert) or should I just delete and repost? Thx!



moved!


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## phantomcat

Matt Derrick said:


> moved!


Heck yes thanks man!


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## slurricane




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## Matt Derrick

slurricane said:


> View attachment 44376



does the blonde hair make him antifa? i mean, i _kinda_ get it, but it falls a bit flat.


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## slurricane

Matt Derrick said:


> does the blonde hair make him antifa? i mean, i _kinda_ get it, but it falls a bit flat.


Modeled after OP's avatar "selfie".


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## Matt Derrick

slurricane said:


> Modeled after OP's avatar "selfie".



that's very clever. how's that working out for you? being clever...


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## phantomcat

slurricane said:


> View attachment 44376


If ur callin me a Stasi spy fuck off


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## Deleted member 20683

i'm going to say i'm agnostic on the spy thing although it doesn't seem that way to me.

however i did want to say that while i see and value your passion, values and vibe, it's important to be careful about how you're putting yourself out there. "especially these days"... i was thinking more in terms of like, putting your photo and possibly identifying info on a blog for fash to come after, than that @s/lefties will think you are a cop if you come off too earnest, but i guess both are good examples of the sorts of things you should think about when transitioning from campus- to street(?)-based activism. i also think it just sounds fundamentally iffy to start a public project of any sort when first getting into something, not matter what the topic, i mean again i appreciate the confidence, but i also internally facepalm when i think of some of the early stuff i wrote and distributed either online or in zines, and wish i had taken a bit longer to observe and absorb before deciding whether to "speak up", what to say and how. don't be like this guy...and a lot of that wasn't political, but i think the same things go for activism. we all understand the feeling of urgency but that doesn't mean it's necessarily smart to get swept off your feet. believe it or not there is always some shitstorm or another blowing up and as time goes by your ideas about how to respond to it may change drastically - not to minimize or relativize the fact that we are probably close to full-on fascism , but i also think back to stuff like when the iraq war started and it felt to a lot of us like the world was literally ending and opposition from the left had totally crumbled; or for that matter, whether it was actually better when the machinery of global economic and ecological devastation (drone strikes, mass deportations, bail outs, the ever-declining wage and ever-warming planet) rumbled on under the smiling, "liberal" facade of the obama era? one thing i think is encouraging about the anti-ice momentum is that the democrats are chasing after it showing that opposition is going further left but then again the exact same thing happened with occupy and look how that ended up- i get that it sucks to not do anything but that doesn't mean do anything just to do something - you don't want to become the cannon fodder of tomorrow's "democratic socialist" bureaucrats like the anarchists in spain who got murdered by the communists....


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## phantomcat

oak moth said:


> i'm going to say i'm agnostic on the spy thing although it doesn't seem that way to me.
> 
> however i did want to say that while i see and value your passion, values and vibe, it's important to be careful about how you're putting yourself out there. "especially these days"... i was thinking more in terms of like, putting your photo and possibly identifying info on a blog for fash to come after, than that @s/lefties will think you are a cop if you come off too earnest, but i guess both are good examples of the sorts of things you should think about when transitioning from campus- to street(?)-based activism. i also think it just sounds fundamentally iffy to start a public project of any sort when first getting into something, not matter what the topic, i mean again i appreciate the confidence, but i also internally facepalm when i think of some of the early stuff i wrote and distributed either online or in zines, and wish i had taken a bit longer to observe and absorb before deciding whether to "speak up", what to say and how. don't be like this guy...and a lot of that wasn't political, but i think the same things go for activism. we all understand the feeling of urgency but that doesn't mean it's necessarily smart to get swept off your feet. believe it or not there is always some shitstorm or another blowing up and as time goes by your ideas about how to respond to it may change drastically - not to minimize or relativize the fact that we are probably close to full-on fascism , but i also think back to stuff like when the iraq war started and it felt to a lot of us like the world was literally ending and opposition from the left had totally crumbled; or for that matter, whether it was actually better when the machinery of global economic and ecological devastation (drone strikes, mass deportations, bail outs, the ever-declining wage and ever-warming planet) rumbled on under the smiling, "liberal" facade of the obama era? one thing i think is encouraging about the anti-ice momentum is that the democrats are chasing after it showing that opposition is going further left but then again the exact same thing happened with occupy and look how that ended up- i get that it sucks to not do anything but that doesn't mean do anything just to do something - you don't want to become the cannon fodder of tomorrow's "democratic socialist" bureaucrats like the anarchists in spain who got murdered by the communists....


That's actually good advice, thank you. Yeah I'm def not a cop, just an overly passionate nerd, and I didn't even think about how being public about this project could hurt me or the project, but I guess I figured this was a safe space with like minded people.


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## phantomcat

oak moth said:


> i'm going to say i'm agnostic on the spy thing although it doesn't seem that way to me.
> 
> however i did want to say that while i see and value your passion, values and vibe, it's important to be careful about how you're putting yourself out there. "especially these days"... i was thinking more in terms of like, putting your photo and possibly identifying info on a blog for fash to come after, than that @s/lefties will think you are a cop if you come off too earnest, but i guess both are good examples of the sorts of things you should think about when transitioning from campus- to street(?)-based activism. i also think it just sounds fundamentally iffy to start a public project of any sort when first getting into something, not matter what the topic, i mean again i appreciate the confidence, but i also internally facepalm when i think of some of the early stuff i wrote and distributed either online or in zines, and wish i had taken a bit longer to observe and absorb before deciding whether to "speak up", what to say and how. don't be like this guy...and a lot of that wasn't political, but i think the same things go for activism. we all understand the feeling of urgency but that doesn't mean it's necessarily smart to get swept off your feet. believe it or not there is always some shitstorm or another blowing up and as time goes by your ideas about how to respond to it may change drastically - not to minimize or relativize the fact that we are probably close to full-on fascism , but i also think back to stuff like when the iraq war started and it felt to a lot of us like the world was literally ending and opposition from the left had totally crumbled; or for that matter, whether it was actually better when the machinery of global economic and ecological devastation (drone strikes, mass deportations, bail outs, the ever-declining wage and ever-warming planet) rumbled on under the smiling, "liberal" facade of the obama era? one thing i think is encouraging about the anti-ice momentum is that the democrats are chasing after it showing that opposition is going further left but then again the exact same thing happened with occupy and look how that ended up- i get that it sucks to not do anything but that doesn't mean do anything just to do something - you don't want to become the cannon fodder of tomorrow's "democratic socialist" bureaucrats like the anarchists in spain who got murdered by the communists....





oak moth said:


> i'm going to say i'm agnostic on the spy thing although it doesn't seem that way to me.
> 
> however i did want to say that while i see and value your passion, values and vibe, it's important to be careful about how you're putting yourself out there. "especially these days"... i was thinking more in terms of like, putting your photo and possibly identifying info on a blog for fash to come after, than that @s/lefties will think you are a cop if you come off too earnest, but i guess both are good examples of the sorts of things you should think about when transitioning from campus- to street(?)-based activism. i also think it just sounds fundamentally iffy to start a public project of any sort when first getting into something, not matter what the topic, i mean again i appreciate the confidence, but i also internally facepalm when i think of some of the early stuff i wrote and distributed either online or in zines, and wish i had taken a bit longer to observe and absorb before deciding whether to "speak up", what to say and how. don't be like this guy...and a lot of that wasn't political, but i think the same things go for activism. we all understand the feeling of urgency but that doesn't mean it's necessarily smart to get swept off your feet. believe it or not there is always some shitstorm or another blowing up and as time goes by your ideas about how to respond to it may change drastically - not to minimize or relativize the fact that we are probably close to full-on fascism , but i also think back to stuff like when the iraq war started and it felt to a lot of us like the world was literally ending and opposition from the left had totally crumbled; or for that matter, whether it was actually better when the machinery of global economic and ecological devastation (drone strikes, mass deportations, bail outs, the ever-declining wage and ever-warming planet) rumbled on under the smiling, "liberal" facade of the obama era? one thing i think is encouraging about the anti-ice momentum is that the democrats are chasing after it showing that opposition is going further left but then again the exact same thing happened with occupy and look how that ended up- i get that it sucks to not do anything but that doesn't mean do anything just to do something - you don't want to become the cannon fodder of tomorrow's "democratic socialist" bureaucrats like the anarchists in spain who got murdered by the communists....


I rly took your advice to heart.. I'm editing everything to be more vague-ish. I still want to be involved and let people know of shit happening!


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## Matt Derrick

phantomcat said:


> but I guess I figured this was a safe space with like minded people.



Despite some folk's paranoia, I'd consider StP to be a safe space, but it never hurts to have a healthy dose of skepticism


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## Deleted member 20683

yo i don't think you are a cop phantomcat. technically, i don't know but i was sort of kidding. anyway, i am glad you saw something of value in my weird rant (i do a lot of those here).

unfortunately i don't think it is ever safe to assume that ANY public internet site, OR traveler/radical culture in general (online or off) are "safe spaces". anyone with an internet connection can read this site and any asshole can wear dirty black carhartts... i've read accounts on this site of run-ins with LEOs who have read this site and with traveler "punx" who are literal nazis. anyway, not to freak you out, this shouldn't have to mean paralysis because nowehere is really 100% safe ever, but just that careful consideration of how you interact in those spaces can make you more or less safe. knaamean?


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## Sameer

There are 500 children ages 12 to 17 in the prisons of occupied Palestine. (The country not the city). How about you protest that!


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## Deleted member 20683

huh? why is everyone playing "what about" in politics these days. i think it's fair for people in the u.s. to be concerned more urgently with resisting what our government is doing right here, than what a totally different country is doing on the other side of the planet....


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## Sameer

Although a true and Noble cause my post was sarcasm. These demonstration do nothing to help the humanitarian effort as they are politically based. The law needs to be changed and what are you doing about that? Who did you vote for in the last election? Did you canvas neighborhoods and man a phone bank to get out the vote? Who are you supporting in the upcoming November elections and what work are you doing for them? Who is running for the Senate and the house in your District? What are you going to do to ensure liberal victories in November? You can protest the current Administration in the guise of humanitarianism all you want but it accomplishes nothing.
This is posted by a 30-year member of the Socialist labor party who understands how the system works.


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## Sameer

I want to add this
All you're doing is pissing off the right wing which will make them stronger and more organized. Our only hope is to win the Senate and the house in the midterm elections... That's the only way to put a stop to all that is going on.


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## Matt Derrick

Sameer said:


> I want to add this
> All you're doing is pissing off the right wing which will make them stronger and more organized. Our only hope is to win the Senate and the house in the midterm elections... That's the only way to put a stop to all that is going on.



@Sameer i'm giving you a verbal warning to not make off topic posts in this thread. the OP didn't ask for your political opinions, they were posting an event to share with the community. if you disagree, then you can simply ignore the thread and go read something else.


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## Sameer

Sorry about that!


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## Deleted member 20683

well i guess it is fair to question someone on how they are going about the change they want; i sort of did that and op seems to have vibed with it. but yes that was very off topic and what i really take issue with is anyone who feels they need to come in like "i am old and know everything and you should be grateful i'm taking time to come down from my high horse and tell you what's what"...that shit always used to make me laugh in my activist days like, if you knew how to fix everything 30 years ago, then why are we all in this mess and why are you spending your time arguing with "dumb kids"


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## Sameer

Your assumptions about me are wrong and rather ageist. There is only one way to change the immigration laws and only one way to stop what this Administration is doing to our country and its people. What you're doing is quite detrimental to the efforts of those who are working tirelessly to change this situation. we all have to do what we feel is right and I wish you peace and happiness. I am Banning myself from this discussion for lack of understanding both on my part and yours. Sorry for hijacking your thread! Good luck to you in your efforts... Remain passionate in your convictions.


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## Deleted member 20683

Sameer said:


> Although a true and Noble cause my post was sarcasm. These demonstration do nothing to help the humanitarian effort as they are politically based. The law needs to be changed and what are you doing about that? Who did you vote for in the last election? Did you canvas neighborhoods and man a phone bank to get out the vote? Who are you supporting in the upcoming November elections and what work are you doing for them? Who is running for the Senate and the house in your District? What are you going to do to ensure liberal victories in November? You can protest the current Administration in the guise of humanitarianism all you want but it accomplishes nothing.
> This is posted by a 30-year member of the Socialist labor party who understands how the system works.



um yeah no im not assuming anything i read your fucking post. try again. or better yet just don't. move on to moveon.org with your liberal bs


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## Beegod Santana

I say protest it up kiddies. Just aways remember to keep it non-violent and be aware that anyone you talk to could be an undercover. This whole "if we piss off the other side they'll get more organized so we should not organize and instead pander to the system that has already failed us" argument makes no damn sense to me.


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## pewpew

Matt Derrick said:


> does the blonde hair make him antifa? i mean, i _kinda_ get it, but it falls a bit flat.


He's missing the red mask


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