# We should have our own land, part I



## Kim Chee

Like the title says....that's the idea. There are other things like funding, ownership, which piece of ground our heads might rest upon and how to put funds safely away with 100% transparency...all of which will need to be addressed. Obviously, there is much more to this thought than what is listed above. If you have ideas, tips, friendly advice or otherwise, kindly share. 

If you have talents or skills which you think might be particularly useful, share them

If interest warrants it, I'm looking forward to part II.

**feel free to add awesome tags


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## psychofoamer

I thought this was why we had rainbow gatherings


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## EphemeralStick

Well as we've learned Detroit is a completely possible option.

https://squattheplanet.com/threads/wanted-good-squatters-for-detroit.25393/

There are many ways of going about this as well as a multitude of options for what it we could accomplish. For instance, do we have a home base in a rural area or urban? What kind of climate do we want to live in? 
Personally I would enjoy living in a warehouse setting in an urban environment. It would offer a lot of space for various projects, we could build a fortress like structure on the inside with various rooms that serve separate purposes. Having a large roof will also provide a lot of options for greenhouses, open gardens, solar panels, water collectors, and an assortment of other options! 

It being in an City will also make it easier for practically anyone to get to and as long as it's a bit off the beaten path, like in an industrial area, we could have the privacy to be as loud and mischievous as we want! The hard part would be on deciding on a city. Obvious Detroit is a good option except for the harsh winter. 

Winter will make it harder to do outdoor activities such as gardening and keeping animals. I've thought about doing a project similar to this on my own once I have the funds but having an StP Warehouse would be so much cooler. 

What are some other ideas?


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## kaichulita

Hm, I wouldn't want to live in a big city, but not too far from it either...


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## Kim Chee

EphemeralStick said:


> Well as we've learned Detroit is a completely possible option.



I have a favorite place in mind, but it is more expensive. The weather is nice year round, blah blah. 

It is expensive to get there though.

I do remember seeing properties in Detroit going dirt cheap to owner/occupants. 

I'd be willing to temporarily disregard the place(s) I have in mind for a place which seems to be much more economically feasible. 

Do you have any current info on these cheap properties in Detroit?

The option I was thibking about would take about $20k+ but could be oh so sweet.


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## Durp

Like I been sayin, I already got 23 acres in an un zoned un restricted area. I hold the ownership and pay the taxes. I would love to set up an artist homestead collective, but mainly I find a bunch of lip flapping and no one actually willing to help with the hard manual labor of getting things off the ground.


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## EphemeralStick

This is the one I've been eyeing, it's less than 10k, the building is 6,000 square feet but the lot size is 70,000. Put up some fencing, build some structures and it could be pretty awesome! 

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19423980/15630-Woodrow-Wilson-Highland-Park-MI/


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## Durp

EphemeralStick said:


> This is the one I've been eyeing, it's less than 10k, the building is 6,000 square feet but the lot size is 70,000. Put up some fencing, build some structures and it could be pretty awesome!
> 
> http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19423980/15630-Woodrow-Wilson-Highland-Park-MI/



It has over $12k in back taxes the owner will be responsible for. Looks like $1 million to get it back up to code, and then you will still have to deal with zoning regulations. You want unzoned and unrestricted land deed.


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## EphemeralStick

JimH1991 said:


> It has over $12k in back taxes the owner will be responsible for. Looks like $1 million to get it back up to code, and then you will still have to deal with zoning regulations. You want unzoned and unrestricted land deed.



Fiddlesticks! Back to the drawing board then. 

What kind of area is your property in?


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## Kim Chee

EphemeralStick said:


> This is the one I've been eyeing, it's less than 10k, the building is 6,000 square feet but the lot size is 70,000. Put up some fencing, build some structures and it could be pretty awesome!
> 
> http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19423980/15630-Woodrow-Wilson-Highland-Park-MI/



Says $12k in open taxes, I'm guessing that this must be paid along with the purchase price.



JimH1991 said:


> Like I been sayin, I already got 23 acres in an un zoned un restricted area. I hold the ownership and pay the taxes. I would love to set up an artist homestead collective, but mainly I find a bunch of lip flapping and no one actually willing to help with the hard manual labor of getting things off the ground.



More lip flapping:

If you already own the land you sure will have a hard time getting people to help you with the hard manual labor even if you are paying them. Are you paying them? Are you offering up this land so we can stop looking for a place to call our own? 

Exactly what are you offering...or are you simply referring to another thread?


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## Durp

Rural. Its considered semi arrid but sits dirrectly above an aquifer. Also it is at 4500 ft above sea level so it has nice mild temps year round. Hardly peaked 90 all summer and hardly gets below freezing in winter. 8 miles from a small town, 45 min drive from home depot or other big bix stores. Right off of I 80


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## Durp

I've been trying to get a collective together, otherwise I will just park a trailer or school bus on it and start building myself once I get board of sailing around the puget sound. Everyone I have talked to irl, bails before they even come out. I waited out there for over a week for some kids to show up to be ditched without even the decency of a quick phone call to inform me they weren't going to make it.


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## milkhauler

JimH1991 said:


> Rural. Its considered semi arrid but sits dirrectly above an aquifer. Also it is at 4500 ft above sea level so it has nice mild temps year round. Hardly peaked 90 all summer and hardly gets below freezing in winter. 8 miles from a small town, 45 min drive from home depot or other big bix stores. Right off of I 80


Elko County Nv? Were nearly neighbour's. I have 40 acres near Montello. [emoji12]


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## MirandaLeigh

My one issue with these sort of things is it quickly turns into some kinda freaky 'family' situation. 
Most of my inquiries in past projects like this have given off a very cult-like and VERY law heavy feel. 

But if we can find a balance between rules and freedom, community and one-true-father-orgy-cult craziness....then I have funds I'm willing to put into this and experience farming...also not a dislike of hard labour.


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## Deleted member 125

highwayman made a post about a person he had known from something sometime back and gave me the persons contact info, after speaking with him on the phone a dozen or so times he started eh sound extremly sketch. at this point i was planning on moving there with my at the time girlfriend and spending the winter on his land, im really glad i got to half know this person before delving into the middle of nowhere maine to live on a strangers land for free. i really like the idea, its just hard to figure out who you can actually trust or rely on to contribute when it really comes down to it.


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## MirandaLeigh

Trust is the hardest part for sure >__<


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## OstrichJockey

JimH1991 said:


> I've been trying to get a collective together, otherwise I will just park a trailer or school bus on it and start building myself once I get board of sailing around the puget sound. Everyone I have talked to irl, bails before they even come out. I waited out there for over a week for some kids to show up to be ditched without even the decency of a quick phone call to inform me they weren't going to make it.



What would the "hard manual labor" entail? I'm always game to be a part of cool projects. I'm a carpenter but I'm willing to do whatever-the-fuck to get it off the ground. Let me know.



MirandaLeigh said:


> My one issue with these sort of things is it quickly turns into some kinda freaky 'family' situation.
> Most of my inquiries in past projects like this have given off a very cult-like and VERY law heavy feel.
> 
> But if we can find a balance between rules and freedom, community and one-true-father-orgy-cult craziness....then I have funds I'm willing to put into this and experience farming...also not a dislike of hard labour.



Also, this exactly.


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## Odin

Just gonna throw out an idea...
Instead of land how about a coalition of boats/platforms to create a sea-stead.
Even if it was say a central platform with "satellite" vessels docking and going as they please.
This way everyone would have they're own "home" but you could have a central anchor for community projects like aquaculture, power generation perhaps, community space and hydroponics/sea gardening.
Developing the central "anchor" would be tricky. I dunno if you could find a structure at sea like an abandoned oil platform or if the center could be a large vessel of some-sort. Say a few houseboats set up in an isolated Cove somewhere.

...probably this is a more difficult and expensive idea but has appeal.

Also... if it is gonna be land how about a group of people Expatiate to another country with cheaper land and less restrictions?

Whatever the case gotta have clear guidelines to peoples rights in participation. I would not mind joining someones project and putting in Hard work... but if after a bit... there would be no clear understanding of my place and opportunities then I would make my peace and move on.

This is where the sea-steading deff has appeal... more autonomous control per the individual.


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## WanderLost Radical

I would be so down to eventually throw a k or 2 at a collective I could help getoff the ground and stay at, plus I'm a carpenter. The problem is that I'm canadian. So I won't invest money in time in a US property I can't live in full-time. 

But if I get a chance, I could stop give a hand if I happen to be nearby


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## Durp

I'm not looking for anyones money. I envision creating like an artist collective of travelers where people can come help out a bit and hang out for a few months before heading off to travel. The hardest work is at the beginning, and that would be organizing a food source, building some small earthbag living structures, ect. Once the the structures are up it would be more chill like making crafts to sell for projects, growing food, picking up food, just lending a hand to keep things comfortable. I would love to have and organize a place to host different classes and talks, and of course a safe place to create art.


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## MirandaLeigh

JimH1991 said:


> I'm not looking for anyones money. I envision creating like an artist collective of travelers where people can come help out a bit and hang out for a few months before heading off to travel. The hardest work is at the beginning, and that would be organizing a food source, building some small earthbag living structures, ect. Once the the structures are up it would be more chill like making crafts to sell for projects, growing food, picking up food, just lending a hand to keep things comfortable. I would love to have and organize a place to host different classes and talks, and of course a safe place to create art.




But you would need money for this? XD


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## CT I

I'd be down for something like this.


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## Durp

By not taking any ones else's money, if shit gets rank I would have no issues in ejecting scum bag assholes. I wouldn't be interested in surendering my deed tho unless a non profit was formed and bought me out for the costs. I have money because I bust my ass and enjoy to work. I just also happen to enjoy fucking off for for a few months and living cheap off of the rubber band bank.


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## buffalobill

Waaaaatttttterrr !!!!! Hehe yeah I'm scared for future droughts political unrest and food scarcity and inflation . I wanted to do something in Detroit but you did pitch a sick idea and in the desert would keep most people away maybe .. I'm looking for some were to crash for the winter I might be able to set up some structures aka save for a trailer. 

Hendrix I've read a couple of your other post I'm jelly haha except for the tractor part ? I feel for yah but were does the weed s come into play for this sucker haha maybe not now huh ?? Anyways I'm down if I can come out this winter I'll go for it. I'm tied down for just a bit longer can I contact you then. I'm not a super sketch kid but I am a bit unreliable right now and on the other side of the country, which seems like forever away if I might add. I would suggest trying to recruite workers at jamboree


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## Durp

I'm all about an organic sort of build up and haven't tried super hard via the webs to organize. I have some irl frineds that I know would be willing to pitch a hand when the time comes. I was mainly trying to illistrate how difficult it can be to try and get some thing off the ground. The main thing to illistrate I guess is you should expect to have some money in your pocket to cover your own food and beer expenses, in exchange for a "free" place to kick it. I currently have moved this to the back burner so I can sail around for a while first. I'm a pretty staunch individualist, so we would have to meet and be chill irl before I can offer anyone a spot. Oh if I had a tractor I would not need any help for manual labor  that's what the tractor is for. From my experience a tractor can do the same work as 5 men busting ass in half the time. Bodies or a tractor are an important thing.


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## Kim Chee

@JimH1991 I wouldn't mind you jacking my thread so much if you had at least taken the time to answer the questions I directed at you.


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## Durp

Sorry.... its a great idea, but will need a relentlessly determined organizer.


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## Kim Chee

JimH1991 said:


> Sorry.... its a great idea, but will need a relentlessly determined organizer.



Granted, but what you did was disorganize this thread by making continued references to your earlier thread without simply posting a link to it and continuing discussion regarding property which you already own.

If you want to post that link, feel free. 

You are probably about the only landowner here among the few who has offered land. I'm surprised you don't have tons of help already from at least passers thru.


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## Kim Chee

I do like the idea of desert land, but proximity to town and available water are major considerations for me. Also, unless at a good elevation, summers can be unbearable. In many instances, the land isn't too expensive.

I also think growing one's own food and a year round surviveable environment are very important.

Thanks @EphemeralStick for showing what is in Detroit. Are there any more of those $1000 houses available or are they $2000 now? Sure, they need work, but just might be bucket flush liveable until things get fixed. 

Not the desert:
Welcome to the jungle~http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2103395549_zpid
Not the cheapest acre on the Big Island, plenty of but water, good year round growing conditions and an in place screen from any neighbors is already in place.
Bring a shovel, an axe (or a few), a couple goats, chickens, tents and rock it.







*Palainui Ave,Mountain View, HI 96771*
*1 acres*
LOT/LAND
$11,000
Price cut: -$4,000 (9/21)
Est. Mortgage: $41/mo
Parcel #2 and Parcel #3 tmk: 3-1-1-80-2 and tmk: 3-1-1-80-3 are also available, three side by side lots to be sold together at $15K of each lot.Lots are located on main road (Palainui ST)) and starts from the corner of Naia St.Seller will not pay for staking or survey. Lots to acccomodate large family. Land Tenure: Fee Simple
*FACTS*

224 days on Zillow
Views since listing: 223
All time views: 224
3 shoppers saved this home
MLS #: 281287


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## CT I

@7xMichael I KNEW you were thinking about Hawaii! My best friend and I are going in December to check it out. We were thinking about moving out there at some point.


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## Deleted member 2626

I have 2 acres in a cornfield 4 miles from a dink town and 6 miles from a little bit bigger town. Woods and land near to hunt and trap and collect wood. I just posted a thread about what I built and taxes are like 100 a year and I didn't apply for the build so till they see it it stays at that price. Wasn't too fond of it till recently. I have a place to go when the day comes that it's all I have to call home.


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## Deleted member 2626

Also it sits in north pa. About a 20 min drive from the NY border. I am near some of the most remote parts of the state of PA. I plan to set up shelters in the vicinity for wilderness trekking and hunting( when I can stay put long enough)


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## Rob Nothing

//



MirandaLeigh said:


> My one issue with these sort of things is it quickly turns into some kinda freaky 'family' situation.
> Most of my inquiries in past projects like this have given off a very cult-like and VERY law heavy feel.
> 
> But if we can find a balance between rules and freedom, community and one-true-father-orgy-cult craziness....then I have funds I'm willing to put into this and experience farming...also not a dislike of hard labour.


Less specifics about how and micromanaging of _where_, the better I think. People with real drive and real purpose more likely to adopt a DIY attitude and make shit happen. imho.

freaky family situation isn't strange to me, but I've definitely run into people that were capable of thinking beyond that as well. and I know there must be at least a handful of people like that here.


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## Kim Chee

severin said:


> //Less specifics about how and micromanaging of _where_, the better I think.



How much money you don't have is going to exclude many places.
If you want water, that is going to dictate where you wont have property.
If you want year round pleasant weather where you can farm, that is going to narrow it down quite a bit.
If you don't want building codes to be in the way, that'll narrow it down some.

Without water, you don't have spit and wont be farmin' shit.
Farmers are amongst the biggest DIY mofos I've ever met.
A farmer doesn't rely on somebody for his food, he makes his own everyday.

...if I weren't pulling big gold out of the ground I think scratchin' the earth for my food is the next best situation I'd like to be in.
...but wait, maybe it is better to scratch the earth and grow some food being poor for the rest of my days than be wealthy and feel the guilt of having much and seeing those who don't.


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## wokofshame

I'd like a piece of land near a crew-change, or better yet, a random place where trains happen to stop, not in a town at all.
Where I and my friends could hop off or on a train at any time of night, roll over to a cozy cabin, roll up a fat joint,set the woodstove a blazing (fire already kindled) and be away.
Also it would be nice if it was a place where there was some sort of seasonal work available nearby.
I was thinking somewhere in the Appalachians- West Virginia or eastern Kentucky. has anyone been to the town of Dante, VA? Old Clinchfield coal mining town deep in the mountains that is super-depressed, cheap land and has a bunch off cool old railroad shit. CSX trains still stop there.
That's where I'd like to buy some land. sort of like Black Butte east coast but less exclusive and no hipsters.
It would be nice, also, to be in a state where there is medical weed allowed so we could have a legal grow op. If we have illegal plants growing, the state can confiscate the land if they bust us. So I'd say legal grow op is better.


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## Deleted member 2626

Damn straight murt. KY would be cool. Pa is supposed to move forward with the legalization. If so I'm gonna look into growing. Seasonal work is a good one for sure. At least enough to keep ya going off season and just ramble


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## Roots317

JimH1991 said:


> Like I been sayin, I already got 23 acres in an un zoned un restricted area. I hold the ownership and pay the taxes. I would love to set up an artist homestead collective, but mainly I find a bunch of lip flapping and no one actually willing to help with the hard manual labor of getting things off the ground.


Where at?


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## Rob Nothing

You're right 7m. But my thinking was more about how and where the vision and inspiration for all of this will crystallize and become meaningful / therefore communicable to enough people, without caving in on itself in some kind of murky "we're doing this because we're better than everyone else" collective creative dissonance.

Of course it all starts with planning out the details the blueprints and asking for input. Starting with one person, and another one, and another. 

I would be so down to help if / when I could. . . Hawaii is a bit farther than a few trains away for me but regardless. 
For myself I was also looking up properties for sale around Detroit, just a month ago when I thought I had my foot in the door for longish term work on a boat.. Was going to take that money straight over the highline next summer. Maybe even still if I find something else..


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## Rob Nothing

Also for anybody without any farming experience but interested in what Michael et al are scheming, interning is a good place to start: https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/internships/

Attra is also a good resource looking into full time, often year-round positions as well.


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## Kim Chee

No matter the who, where, what, how and why...a common thread here is acquiring funds (yes, this will take money unless a gift). 

Whoever has ideas of how to conduct fundraising on the Internet or just simply has a rich Aunt who would like to see a whole bunch of travelin' folk work towards being self sufficient is welcome to chime in.

I hope nobody is offended by my mention of working towards self-sufficiency...just trying to loosen the chains a bit.


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## Deleted member 2626

Work pahhh! No its kind of the only way I travel on and off and own land. Family helps without my permission here and there, I don't ask. But. Yes money is needed fornself sufficiency on land. Anyone disagrees, you probably don't own land.


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