# Punks and Marriage



## Spinelli

So whats yer guys thoughts on being progressive and married? I know alot of married punks and some activists that are or are getting married. I'm kind of a do as ya please guy, I think you could make yer marriage non-typical but maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?


----------



## Mouse

it's only a business contract. if i was with someone for years and years and there was an opp for me to maybe get health insurance or something else out of marrying them, then yes. But otherwise, I'd stay unwed at all costs. 

I was "married" at one point and it didn't last very long. I loved him enough to do it. but that wasn't how he saw it apparently. we weren't legally married. luckily! cuz it woulda been hell to get that shit fixed after he ruined my life enough already. 


so, i say, don't sign a contract until you've been together for at least 10 years, have kids, or need health care.


----------



## Dillinger

*Completely* Agree With Mouse. . .

I was with this girl for 6 years and we got "married" - non legally - with but a promise and a diy tattoo of a heart on our fingers. I thought you know I'm an 18 year old boy why the Fuck have (or how) I been with this girl for so long at such a young age, I should be humping anything with legs. So we did that. The rad neo-hippie way. (seeing as how any other way is just for Christians or for benefits) Needless to say she's no longer a part of me, and yeah, happy it wasn't legal cos of all the shit you Do go through to get out of it but I mean... the fuck is a ring and paper? it's the feeling thats real.


----------



## Labea

yea i dont see a point in 'marriage', if i wanted to be with someone for the rest of my life i wouldnt need a diamond or a peice of paper to feel secure. but im down with the whole mutual love and unofficial marriage in the woods on acid thing. more power to the people who can stick with it when the going gets rough.

my mom has been married 4 times. kids and marriage are not in my near future.


----------



## Mouse

the only thing that really hurt was when people would ask me if we were legally married and I'd say No they'd be like "oh, well, it doesn't count then" and brush it off. Sorry, fuckers, but it sure as hell counted TO ME otherwise I wouldn't have done it. Just cuz you don't sign a piece of paper doesn't mean it means nothing


----------



## SeymourGlass

i've seen too many marriages thrown down the drain throughout my life and it's just not something i'm interested in. you don't need expensive jewelry and a court document to prove you're in love with someone. just live together, be together, learn from each other and have fun.


----------



## Clit Comander

i will for the tax benifits!? hahaha yeah right


----------



## kai

in Canada if you live with your partner for more then 6 months you become common-law spouses which albeit is not a bonafide marriage it still counts and I know that it is legally binding to certain point, specifics I am however not sure.


----------



## Spinelli

I dunno myself, I spose for the health care or something. I agree if ya love someone ya love 'em, but I'm not really against it either, I'm kinda a sucker a hopeless romantic do anything for a girl kinda guy which is probably bad.


----------



## Dillinger

If those benefits honestly save a lot of bullshit for someone I may just go sign a domestic partnership with one of my buds haha. =)


----------



## Dillinger

Well if I've been playing music and living with this kid for about 3 years I think maybe perhaps they could assume we're a bit shy and what we do is our business type deal. Living together for that long and going everywhere together and shit, I mean yeah a lot of people do that but I think you could easily point a finger and say, "Hmm, Yeah.... they're _probably_ lovers."
=)
I got plenty of rad girl-friends who would probably be down for that too. Mayyyyybe.
^_~


----------



## valuetravel

hmm.. i agree with you all that its pretty much bullshit especially since the divorce rate is over 50% of marriages. but i also think theres something great about binding a commitment to another human being under a written contract. if it was some one you really knew you would spend the rest of your life with. not just a wim. just a thought. devil advocate really...by the way i posted this little family because i think it looks nice and i wouldnt mind that one day.


----------



## SeymourGlass

that picture is nice as hell to look at, even though i can never see myself there.


----------



## valuetravel

why not? it looks nice.


----------



## Spinelli

Some are just not cut out for kids. I love my extended family. I have forged my own brothers and sisters and have the love of my life, but I could not see myself having kids. Maybe a nice warm house and a loving partner, but minus the kid.


----------



## hellomonday

whenever i see that picture above, it makes me think of the book the glass castle by jeanette walls. its a really crazy book and its actually a true story about a little girl and her family, they end up having to travel a lot, living out of thier car. not beceause they want to though, more so because they have to.


----------



## spaz1972

me and my lover talked about, we agreed to keep it simple, use the word marrige as a fusing of the two metals. get D.I.Y. tattos or something too(kinda my idea, but shes into it) why should i get a piece of paper that says how i love someone?? thats pathetic. the words that i use to describe how i feel about my lover will never fit on thier papers. fuck paper! lol. :shock:


----------



## Seija

The Glass Castle = a very good book.

As for my views? It would feel nice to be connected to someone, whether it be legally or not. Have a set of arms to fall asleep in and a decent place to live -- I'm set for life. Well, maybe throw a few animals in there. =)


----------



## Oaksey

Seija said:


> The Glass Castle = a very good book.
> 
> As for my views? It would feel nice to be connected to someone, whether it be legally or not. Have a set of arms to fall asleep in and a decent place to live -- I'm set for life. Well, maybe throw a few animals in there. =)



do you have a copy of it? i couldnt find it on slsk or piratebay. 
PM me if you can help, it sounds interesting.


----------



## Lycanhardcore

I think I'd probably be down for solidifying something of a "spiritual connection" with another person - or several other people. Not even necessarily people that I'm attracted to sexually. I am as far from monogamous, however, as a person can get - and I honestly think that the DIY marriages that people are talking about in this thread are supersweet, too. Maybe not for me, but I like it.


----------



## veggieguy12

I recommend that any US citizen use his/her power to circumvent immigration laws and help foreigners stay in the USA legally. Check it out, you wanna know what you're getting into, but if you think borders are invalid and 'illegal people' is a nonsense notion, then it's something you can do to fight that. I think it's a great thing to do, and any citizen can.


----------



## veggieguy12

Widerstand, *nice link*!



veggieguy said:


> I recommend that any US citizen use his/her power to circumvent immigration laws and help foreigners stay in the USA legally. Check it out, you wanna know what you're getting into, but if you think borders are invalid and 'illegal people' is a nonsense notion, then it's something you can do to fight that. I think it's a great thing to do, and any citizen can.



I forgot to note that you won't succeed you're getting any govt. subsidy or if you're a felon. You need to have enough finances to 'sponsor' your immigrant, or have a co-signor who attests that he/she will do so until the applicant is legal to stay and work in the USA (up to 10 years from time of application).


----------



## maus

i would marry the right person if there were financial benefits which there usually are. i could probably get cheaper auto insurance and better financial aid for college. there are other privileges you get like visiting the person in the hospital and youre also exempted from testifying against the other person in certain circumstances


----------



## Dameon

The only way I could see myself getting married is if I accidentally had a child, and then it would just be for the child's benefit. Otherwise, I can't stand the idea of a love contract with an expiration date of "death" and heavy penalties for early termination. A little ceremony, I'm fine with, although I will never ever ever EVER go through one of those stupid expensive "traditional" ceremonies. Seriously, what is wrong with people that they have to spend tens of thousands of dollars throwing an event just to say "let's move in together and make babies"?


----------



## dirtbag

Glass Castle = great read.

Freaks me out that you mentioned it. Some middle aged woman I used to work with gave it to me and said I'd probably enjoy it. Never heard anyone else speak of it, though.


----------



## veggieguy12

Dameon said:


> The only way I could see myself getting married is if I accidentally had a child, and then it would just be for the child's benefit.



You don't *really* think that you'd be benefitting the kid, do you?
Maybe in some ways by his/her papers or state-oversight or something, but not if you were staying with someone you didn't intend to be with.


----------



## Dameon

veggieguy12 said:


> You don't *really* think that you'd be benefitting the kid, do you?
> Maybe in some ways by his/her papers or state-oversight or something, but not if you were staying with someone you didn't intend to be with.



It'd really depend on the circumstances and the mom, I suppose. I don't tend to sleep with women that I don't think I could get emotionally involved with. Unless I'm drunk, then all bets are off 

At the very least, it'd be worth a shot, if the circumstances weren't badly against it, and the only way I could see myself being a responsible father involved in my kid's life would be if I tied myself down.

Hopefully, though, the occasion will never come up where that sort of decision has to be made


----------



## Ravie

hmmm i think if i ever got "married" i would have a normal ceremony with rings and such, but no legal contract. love should not be based on anything but being together. it should have nothing to do with money or benefitting anything but the joy of being near your other half. with a child involved its different i guess but im not even sure if there is a child in my future.


----------



## bikegeek666

ArrowInOre said:


> h. Best way to loose a great friend, marry them or loan them money. I



ha ha...it's true...i've been married (and technically still am) and feel like it's part of what led to the decline in the relationship between me and a woman who's perhaps the most amazing person i've met. 

there's some regret there, for sure, but what are you going to do? you just keep moving...

as far as my opinion for anyone else, do it if you want to, but watch out, it might not be what you thought it would be.


----------



## veggieguy12

Dameon said:


> It'd really depend on the circumstances and the mom, I suppose. I don't tend to sleep with women that I don't think I could get emotionally involved with. Unless I'm drunk, then all bets are off
> 
> At the very least, it'd be worth a shot, if the circumstances weren't badly against it, and the only way I could see myself being a responsible father involved in my kid's life would be if I tied myself down.
> 
> Hopefully, though, the occasion will never come up where that sort of decision has to be made



_Get a fucking vasectomy_ and it won't!
Plus, there's a free beer in it for ya...


----------



## syphilust

I can think of exactly one marriage that made sense - 

a bunch of us rolled into a city and proceeded to get right drunk. About ten hours later we found ourselves in a hotel hallway which we had gotten for free, along with two bottles of champagne and various lil things because two of our friends, who themselves were best friends in a absolutly platonic way, had just gotten married. She took the booze, said "goodnight" to her new husband and they went to seperate rooms. Now everytime they run into some random place they introduce each other as "my wife" etc. funny shit. they're still married and that was about five years ago.

myself? I always said I'll probably end up breaking marriages instead of making 'em (half joking)...although I would definatly marry someone so they could get canuk citizenship....or maybe for ridiculous amounts of cash from a sugar daddy...


----------



## katiehabits

hey *Syphilust* i've never heard that whole story.... i just know it happened.
ya the only reason i's ever get married would be to get someone citizenship.


----------



## Beer Mortal

Im much too young to think about marriage at anytime or even children.
Im sixteen, but im also not one for short lasting relationships. 
I enjoy the idea of commitment but not on that level.
I dont like the idea of marriage or how many are ended or created.
Honestly id be happy with a life partner MAYBE children when im much older and done seeing what I want to see.
For now im happy being affectionate with someone loyal and not full of shit.


----------



## atomicpunk

i would do it again but only with another punk. no more thinkin wit the little head( i hope)


----------



## oldmanLee

Hmmmm,time to pull out my 'bitter old fart".Married twice,divorced twice.Both times with remarkablecreativesexyintellegent people.Both ended acrimoniously.Both tore me up,one almost sent me over the Big Edge(thank a overdeveloped sense of responsiblity to the kids for not going there),both compleatly drained me finacially(and i had primary custody).It was all I could do not to turn into a compleatly misogionistic bastard.Avoided that,and taking out my anger on others.Came to the conclusion that while I know a lot of folks that can marry and hold it together(my own folks will be celebrating thier 53 anniversay on Groundhog's Day this year)its not in my cards.


----------



## Monkeywrench

. Can't figure out how to delete the post.


----------



## jon

Hey it worked for me so far, so far being almost 18 years...

got married in a shitty apartment over a couple bottles of $8 wine (that was the good stuff) about 2 months after meeting my wife. Next day went around telling everyone we were married. Thought we were in a common law state and thought that was about all it took, maybe we were maybe it was, though I'm less sure now. But what the fuck ever, it's a personal commitment nothing to do with religions or states for me.

Did it help? Did it matter? Dunno, might have helped through some of the shittier times, or maybe we would have been just as stubborn and bloody mined about staying together any way, I certainly credit the joint stubborness & bloody minededness for the longevity of the relationship and certainly the start of the marriage, I proposed, some what jokingly, over some fine garlic bread she'd cooked up and she, somewhat jokingly accepted. 18 years and two kids and ALOT of shit later neither of us has backed down, so far as I know we both currently think this is a good thing. 

That's the short version of my Punk Rock Love Story.


----------



## Wolfeyes

I'm against the concept of "Legal Marriage" because of it's history and what it represents. Way back when, the process of legally marrying someone was put in place only to prevent inter-ethnic and inter-religious breeding. Blacks couldn't marry whites, Catholics couldn't marry Jews, etc... The concept is intolerant, out dated and just plain ignorant.

Then there's the "property" angle, whereby a woman became property of her husband under a legal marriage. That's one reason why I would never give a woman I had a connection with a ring, even one I made. The ring symbolized ownership.

In my instance, I'm legally unmarried, spiritually on trial separation. An ex gf and I had a DIY spiritual marriage a few years ago. We're still together in some ways, but we see other people, getting back together every now and then for emotional/sexual comfort. We recently discussed going the legal route, so she could get better health care coverage and I could get tax incentives, but we agreed it would ruin what we have.

To that end, I'm still fairly young, and I doubt I'll ever be legally married. I don't need to prove anything to anyone.


----------



## anne

I'm glad you brought up these points. 

I'm legally married (for now) and used to even go so far as to wear a big, stupid diamond ring. Now that I know more about what diamonds mean for less developed areas of the world, I can't support that trend. Even the so-called "ethical diamonds" promote cruelty indirectly by advertising a need for them. I was thinking of pawing it at first, but I'll probably just end up flushing it down the toilet. 

I "love" my husband and it's likely that we'll be together for a long time, maybe even for the rest of our lives. However, I'm super excited about our upcoming divorce. I'll still get to be on his insurance as a domestic partner and the other benefits that resulted from us being married in the first place are no longer relevant. 

Another main reasons why I want to get a divorce is because I don't want to be part of any group that excludes others for religious/crazy reasons. Even if it did include everyone, it's still not cool because it would give benefits to people simply because they have love in their lives while everyone else gets the cold shoulder. It's amazing how so many people are okay with the government trying to pressure them into having only one type of acceptable relationship. Essentially punishing people for being unmarried and not pursuing a traditional way of life. 




Wolfeyes said:


> I'm against the concept of "Legal Marriage" because of it's history and what it represents. Way back when, the process of legally marrying someone was put in place only to prevent inter-ethnic and inter-religious breeding. Blacks couldn't marry whites, Catholics couldn't marry Jews, etc... The concept is intolerant, out dated and just plain ignorant.
> 
> Then there's the "property" angle, whereby a woman became property of her husband under a legal marriage. That's one reason why I would never give a woman I had a connection with a ring, even one I made. The ring symbolized ownership.


----------



## jon

anne said:


> Another main reasons why I want to get a divorce is because I don't want to be part of any group that excludes others for religious/crazy reasons.



Hey, I'm right with you on that one Anne. We're in Massachusetts now which is fairly inclusive in terms of "legal" marriage (now), though if that were to change we'd definitely get a divorce and push the "domestic partner" route.


----------



## LilMa

i agree with mouse. in my general opinion, divorce is EXPENSIVE!! I have never been married, and in all honesty, don't believe in it & don't plan on it. unless in certain situations, ex. health issues - then get married for the insurance. the ONLY marriage I have ever seen work was my great grandparents, married for 62 years! my thoughts on that was that it was an 'old love' type thing. the kind you see in old movies and such, but never in real life.. they had something that i have never seen in another couple. all in all - why pay for a piece of paper to say that you are in love or are happy?? if you're happy and your half is happy, why complicate things with money and paper trails? haha, anyway


----------



## Fever

I'm going to agree with Mouse on this too...a marriage license is nothing more than legal bonding. If you look at it from the ceremonial aspect, at the rate people are getting married and divorced, it must not be at all as "sacred" as it's made out to be, if people are so willing to throw out their marriage to fuck their secretaries or whatever. If you love someone, being legally married doesn't even really matter. You can add people to your bank account anytime! The rings, dresses, all that jazz should just be trivial in the end. It's got to be more than that.


----------



## colorado

Me and my wife had a gutter punk wedding in s.f on haight street it was crazy ,for me marriage is for leagle reasons i.e if i was in a coma and im pretty shure your wife cant testify against you


----------



## drybonezz

Me and my boyfriend are "married" we had a ceremony in a treehouse at a drum circle it was AWESOME and I love being married


----------



## JayJayOnTheFly

that sounds nice actually i want to do something like that fuck legally getting married haha thanks guys


----------



## logan714

Marriage,
Well, I married a gutter punk going on 8 years ago. I would say if a person is young, go out and fuck your brains out. 

Responsibility:
Well, if your idea of responsibility is panhandling up the next 40 then I guess you're not ready for marriage. First you have to accept responsibility for yourself and find legal ways to do things, then you might you might be able to find somebody you can work with to do even more things. 

This isn't only about marriage. This is about kids on this site, etc. etc. You want to be an anarchist. You don't want to deal with money. You don't want to deal with any type of responsibility. Okay, tear down the system. Then? Who's garbage cans are you going to eat out of? Who's spare change are you going to buy beer with? Who is going to deal with the Really BAD shit in life, when some mother fucker does deserve a bullet in the brain? you going to shoot 'em?

I hear a lot of "Bad" about established things, govt. marriage, laws, whatever. 

And I'm married and I'm older and here are a few of the other reasons. 

not to insult people like widerstand or matt, but I've spent more time on the road than most people on this site have been alive. and I've led a real hard life. How about survivors benefits for my kids easily instead of my widow having to fight for five years to get em. How about an easy transfer of property if I die too soon. Yes, as you get older you tend to acquire more than a tent and a back pack. 

I have yet in my life seen anyone propose something to replace the govt. and system we all live in that would be sustainable. Therefore, unless some rocket surgeon comes along and all of a suddenly comes up with some new and interesting crap for everyone to do, I think we're going to be living in this type of system for a long time. In other words, utilize this system to work for your advantage and change what little things you can. If everyone starts to change itty bitty things, maybe something can happen.

You know when I was a kid in Texas, they'd put you in jail for 3 years over a fucking joint. Now, essentially in the West it's quazi legal, and California is voting on full legalization in Nov. 

Logan


----------



## dyefukked

jon said:


> Hey it worked for me so far, so far being almost 18 years...
> 
> got married in a shitty apartment over a couple bottles of $8 wine (that was the good stuff) about 2 months after meeting my wife. Next day went around telling everyone we were married. Thought we were in a common law state and thought that was about all it took, maybe we were maybe it was, though I'm less sure now. But what the fuck ever, it's a personal commitment nothing to do with religions or states for me.
> 
> Did it help? Did it matter? Dunno, might have helped through some of the shittier times, or maybe we would have been just as stubborn and bloody mined about staying together any way, I certainly credit the joint stubborness & bloody minededness for the longevity of the relationship and certainly the start of the marriage, I proposed, some what jokingly, over some fine garlic bread she'd cooked up and she, somewhat jokingly accepted. 18 years and two kids and ALOT of shit later neither of us has backed down, so far as I know we both currently think this is a good thing.
> 
> That's the short version of my Punk Rock Love Story.



i just wanted to say that i think this is one of the more romantic stories. not romantic in a cheezy way, but in a way that's real and means something in the long run.


----------



## RnJ

Awesome, civil discussion guys. Me likes such a thread.

I see marriage as not just the binding of two people who like each other, but two people who love each other, and want to do so for the rest of their lives. In this sense, loving is the promise to pursue that person for as long as you live. Perhaps it's a bit idealistic, but ideals are good. I believe we are better as individuals when we learn to serve each other, instead of only expecting things to each other. I do not deny that some pretty devilish things come into play a few years after marriage. The divorce rate is incredibly high, making marriage look like a sham. I'd prefer to blame several things, rather than the concept of marriage: 1) people who do not analyze the feasibility of life-long marriage with a certain person, for example a nice sweet person may not be heading the same way as you in life, so what chances does it have of lasting?; 2) Marriage is seen as some sort of validation into adulthood. We should make stronger efforts to uphold singles in our society.

Personally, I love kids, and I want to find a life-long lover to adopt some kids with. And marriage? My Christian view, which is not the standard Christian view perhaps, is that the marriage lies in the confession to family, friends, and your community, not the legal documents. I'm not so concerned about the legal registration of the marriage, as having a wedding including the people in my life and those of my wife. I think it's a good think to show the people who care about us two that we're making a commitment not fuck each other over. This is a very collectivistic approach to relationships, especially in comparison to the no-ties way that most people do it. But I think love is serving, from the top to the bottom. As far as legal registration, I think I'd do it because it's easier. I'd let my wife choose to take my last name or keep her last name, that's up to her. I enjoy thinking about my ideal wedding, because of all things I would do to turn it from a boring, dry-ass ritual to an awesome party.

Interesting fact: Thought I love kids and families, I have never seriously dated a girl; or kissed on, etc, etc. The ones I like don't like me, and the ones who like me, I don't dig at all. Additionally, I have seriously problems with couples who lose their zest for life by settling down. I fear getting into a relationship with someone who's not heading in the same direction as me, because I can totally understand how certain factors can work against the one-honest commitment to stay with that person through thick and thin. But I still believe that marriage can create synergy; we can help each other be who we want to be. I can handle people changing, but I've considered what it would be like to live with someone who was 0% who they were when you committed yourselves. And I can't say I won't lose my mind and get a divorce in the future, just that I don't want to marry so soon -- or get into a boring relationship --and that when I do, I want it to be a life thing full of challenges and renewal. For now, I'm enjoying the final let-up of my families expectations to find a girl get married and pump out some kids ASAP. I'm in the clear.

I'm young (26), love-inexperienced, and idealistic. Please read me as such.


----------



## Eviscerate

i've always been against marriage. it was from a time when the average life expectancy was 35 and we needed people to stay together so that the kids could be brought up in a dangerous world.
none of that is true now. times have changed and so must marriage.


----------



## shwillyhaaa

logan714 said:


> Marriage,
> Well, I married a gutter punk going on 8 years ago. I would say if a person is young, go out and fuck your brains out.
> 
> Responsibility:
> Well, if your idea of responsibility is panhandling up the next 40 then I guess you're not ready for marriage. First you have to accept responsibility for yourself and find legal ways to do things, then you might you might be able to find somebody you can work with to do even more things.
> 
> This isn't only about marriage. This is about kids on this site, etc. etc. You want to be an anarchist. You don't want to deal with money. You don't want to deal with any type of responsibility. Okay, tear down the system. Then? Who's garbage cans are you going to eat out of? Who's spare change are you going to buy beer with? Who is going to deal with the Really BAD shit in life, when some mother fucker does deserve a bullet in the brain? you going to shoot 'em?
> 
> I hear a lot of "Bad" about established things, govt. marriage, laws, whatever.
> 
> And I'm married and I'm older and here are a few of the other reasons.
> 
> not to insult people like widerstand or matt, but I've spent more time on the road than most people on this site have been alive. and I've led a real hard life. How about survivors benefits for my kids easily instead of my widow having to fight for five years to get em. How about an easy transfer of property if I die too soon. Yes, as you get older you tend to acquire more than a tent and a back pack.
> 
> I have yet in my life seen anyone propose something to replace the govt. and system we all live in that would be sustainable. Therefore, unless some rocket surgeon comes along and all of a suddenly comes up with some new and interesting crap for everyone to do, I think we're going to be living in this type of system for a long time. In other words, utilize this system to work for your advantage and change what little things you can. If everyone starts to change itty bitty things, maybe something can happen.
> 
> You know when I was a kid in Texas, they'd put you in jail for 3 years over a fucking joint. Now, essentially in the West it's quazi legal, and California is voting on full legalization in Nov.
> 
> Logan


 
good point...
but everyone has different success stories.
this is why the world is relatively diverse.


----------



## Shakou

My husband and I got legally married mainly for the legal benefits. We knew we were inlove and we knew we weren't going anywhere, and that we didn't need to prove that to anyone. But (as an example) what would happen if one of us ended up in the hospital? Most hospitals only allow immediate family members to visit. If it's not on paper, they don't give a shit how much you love someone or how long you've been together.


----------



## Roach

Mouse said:


> the only thing that really hurt was when people would ask me if we were legally married and I'd say No they'd be like "oh, well, it doesn't count then" and brush it off. Sorry, fuckers, but it sure as hell counted TO ME otherwise I wouldn't have done it. Just cuz you don't sign a piece of paper doesn't mean it means nothing


 

i know what you mean i hate that so much i just gave birth to our daughter and they didnt put him down as my husband...that broke my heart...


----------



## graven

Marriage is about ownership, imo.

You can say it's good for getting in on the healthcare of you partner, or that it's a contract for immigration purposes, but it's just a tool to give one person power over another.

Forget that. No one owns me or will have me stay with them solely so I can keep my healthcare or become a citizen of wherever. I can do that on my own. Any partner of mine would be able to do it on his own too, and we'd be together out of mutual respect and love, not because we signed a contract.


----------



## Uncle Mom

I got married once. Still paying for it. I don't recommend it.


----------



## LeatherTrampGypsy

The whole act of what a typical wedding consist of is Pagan. It simply comes down to symbology. The government just twisted it to become a "legal" matter. AND buying your girl a diamond ring is exploiting Africans. They die miserable deaths, starving, dehyrdration, sun stroke, etc. for your girls 24 karat diamond so she can look more "loved" or "rich" it disgusts me. Fucking pathetic. I love that Mouse could overcome that persons negative imput. Right on, girl! Marriage only matters to those who do it. I'm comtemplating "marrying" my boyfriend. I don't believe in "divorce" either.


----------



## Shakou

It totally depends on the people and what exactly they want/are comfortable with. I haven't been married for very long, but it's been a very good, positive experience for me. It works for us because we're just so fucking compatible and want the same things in life. I would have stayed with him for life regardless, but I got married mainly because I knew I had met the person I wanted to make my life with (and vice versa), and because of the benefits that follow with marriage, such as if one of us gets seriously sick and ends up in the hospital, the other can be there in the room. This came in very handy when I had a staph infection in my kidney about a month ago and was in the hospital for a while. 

I also don't believe you have to be with someone for a super long time in order for marriage to work out. I think it depends on how well you know yourself and what you want. My mom married my step dad after having only been dating him 2 months, and they're STILL together now 13 years later and extremely happy. There's no rules on how long a person should wait to get married, because everyone is different.

EDIT: Shit, I just realized I had posted to this thread a couple months ago! XD Ah well, what I say still stands.


----------



## Earth

ok.... here's the deal: if you are to get married, you do it for one and for one reason only: because you love that person. Forget about the rest of the technicalities.... If you really want to be with that one person forever and ever, go for it. I personally tried it 3x, first ended when Leslie killed herself, 2nd ended when Gina dumped me without warning, 3rd ended when 'graven' decided it was time to go. It's cool, it's all good - needless to say - there won't be a 4th..........


----------



## Earth

now... that being said, if it ain't working and you see it ain't working, the best thing to do is break it off and set her free. Thats what I just had to do. It was terrible, I was very very broken up about it - but when I saw how happy she was about moving to Seattle (with new man out there already) I saw that I had no other choice than to do so. When we love someone, we must set them free...


----------



## plagueship

i think i would do this with the "right person" if it seemed like the legal technicalities worked in our favor... otherwise what is the point?


----------



## EmmaJane

I'm sort of conflicted about this whole issue.. 

I couldn't ever get legally married; my parents were married. In fact, it was my Dad's 3rd marriage and my Mum's 2nd, and they couldn't legally get married until I was 2 and half because Dad's divorce wasn't finalized from his 2nd marriage yet. Now he's working on marriage number 4 and I don't know if I can ever forgive my mother for staying with an abusive dickwad who hurt her kids just because he was her "husband". 

At the same time, though, I can recognize that co-operation and community are perhaps humanity's only saving graces. By working together, through love, trust, and loyalty, we can achieve things that we could never make or do on our own. I value bonds of love and friendship, and although I'm terrified and repulsed by the idea of making a commitment "for life" I would be happy to make a more short-term commitment. This doesn't mean that I abhor responsibility, it just means that I'm realistic about the prospect of two people being compatible and STAYING compatible for multiple decades.

Far from decrying commitment, I merely believe that we need to take a more realistic view at how feasible a life-long commitment is in a time when people are living many times longer than they have in the past. Expecting two people who love each other to remain totally monogamous and devoted to each other for life, for 40, 50, 0r 60 years, is the reason why so many marriages end in divorce. There is so much pressure on people to have that fairytale 'happily ever after' that we live in a society that belittles non-government sanctioned unions instead of cherishing that instinct in ourselves that tells us occasionally to compromise our own happiness for the sake of the people we love. We should rejoice in our humanity rather than berating people for failing to live up to a nearly impossible standard.

As to the whole wedding ceremony; I've always been disgusted at how much money people are willing to throw away and how much of a ridiculous spectacle people are willing to turn something as intimate as a commitment ceremony into. I never want a legal or monogamous marriage, and I would leave anyone who tried to give me a diamond.


----------



## scales

mariages don't work the divorce rate is over fifty percent that should tell you something but yeah a lot of people do it because of the benefits


----------



## DFA

Okay,
picture this, here is a great marriage ceremony
represented in the opinions of me myself and I



No fuckin family, no friends, (unless your kinky like that) no contracts, no goddamn legality at all.

Just you and the other person,
As deep in the woods or desert as you can possibly get, no sign of civilization.
Drop some strong acid, drink some booze, perform some dark golden dawn or pagan inspired ritual, summon
some deity that represents both of you, maybe throw some menstrual blood (very powerful
substance for ceremonial purposes) in there, and then have awesome, long, drawn out, all-consuming sex.


That would be the only way I would get married to someone, because that would be awesome.
At least if you end up hating each other (which you probably will) you can look back on
when you got married on acid in the woods and think "damn that was crazy...."


----------



## RockerBilly

So many people confused about what is the right way. I say rather than speculating about pagan inspired rituals and doing acid, give a damn, -do the actual research about where you come from. You are only the current chapter in a very long book. For me, I look back to the way my ancestors did things (before the Anglo-Saxons destroyed most of their culture). The Picts and Celts would take part in a ceremony called hand-fasting, and although it seems kinda hippy-ish and ridiculous, to me it sounds pretty rad and makes a lot more sense. Christians robbed us of our way of life and I think we should take it back. This is the wikipedia article about hand-fasting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handfasting


----------



## XMNnmx

I have no intent of getting married or producing offspring. I just don't...feel it.


----------



## BrittanyTheBananarchist

..jhbdj


----------



## BrittanyTheBananarchist

last year i did the high line and got down to key west FL. figured id be there for a min and i ended up meeting my now husband. we got married after 3 days of knowing each other but we felt it was right and decided to go for it.(not legally but a promise and rings we found at a little shop on the street.) so that all began on Nov 26th 2011. ever since then me and him have been together all the time we traveled up and down the Florida coast squatted all over hitched walked spanged did everything together. bought a truck lived in it and went up to PA where hes originally from. once we got up there i found out i was 3 months pregnant. o shit. we decided we are gonna keep it so that meant it was time to start getting our shit together jobs place to live ect. big change for two people that were on the road. so we got jobs were living in a shed and doing alright til we got laid off. at that point we were about 9 months married and me getting even closer to my due date. with all the pressure of having this kid (which i never thought would happen) and no income shit has been getting a lot harder on our relationship. due to the fact that because now i am currently 7 months pregnant and nobody will hire me cause of that all the stress of work has been put on him. we just packed up and went to new jersey to help out with the hurricane clean up. i hate the fact that hes out there busting his ass for the both of us and i cant really do much to help out cuz im so far along. this month will be our 1 year anniversary and it has been a struggle to keep both our heads up. but even though its been hard dealing with settling down and not bein on the streets and raging i know that i love him and everything comes when its needed. hes my best friend my partner in life and the best road dog i could have ever asked for. one that do anything to make me happy and i love him for that. it hasnt been easy but im sure things will work out. heres to our son soon to arrive on feburary 23rd 2013!


----------



## BrittanyTheBananarchist

Mouse said:


> it's only a business contract. if i was with someone for years and years and there was an opp for me to maybe get health insurance or something else out of marrying them, then yes. But otherwise, I'd stay unwed at all costs.
> 
> I was "married" at one point and it didn't last very long. I loved him enough to do it. but that wasn't how he saw it apparently. we weren't legally married. luckily! cuz it woulda been hell to get that shit fixed after he ruined my life enough already.
> 
> 
> so, i say, don't sign a contract until you've been together for at least 10 years, have kids, or need health care.


 
i totally agree i got tired of ppl lookin down on me and my husband because it wasn't legal so i just started telling them it was. let me tell you it feels more like a marriage with a promise than it would with a piece of paper. fuck em im happy thats my husband and ill be damned if anyone says its not cuz its not legal.


----------



## iamalouse

I was engaged for almost 4 years. When I refer to that time now I'll say something like "when I was married" or something like that, because we were basically that. Not even three weeks after we started I moved in not even a week after that he asked me to marry him while I was high as hell on a ten strip of lsd. Not the best time to answer a heavy question like that but I was in love. We never planned a wedding because he had lost his ID and wasn't able to get a new one without jumping through tons of legal hoops. At one point, like 2 1/2 years into our relationship he bought me a diamond ring and gave it to me as an engagement ring ON MY BIRTHDAY. I was pissed. I remember going to a show that night without him, wearing the ring, and being disgusted by it. I still wore it for the next year and half until we broke up. It was complicated; mostly I was like "Shit! I've been monogamous for four years and I just turned 21!". It took me that long to figure out that I needed to go explore the world before settling down. Our relationship ended badly about 5 months after my birthday. The level of passion we had in the beginning, the fact that my partner was unwilling to be non-monogamous and the fact that he was a crazy irresponsible fuck got me over it. THANK GOODNESS we never got married legally. I would STILL be dealing with that shit! 


As far as marriage in the future goes: I am pretty sure (it's been discussed) that I'm gonna marry my platonic life mate/lady. I haven't had a relationship as legit as this one before, the only thing is we don't have sex. Filling that void has proven complicated. I'm a hopeless romantic, so I'd like to spend my life with someone I am romantically involved with, it just seems unlikely any time soon. 

Legal marriage... could be useful. But I wouldn't do it for love. Love doesn't need a contract.


----------



## iamalouse

Uhmm, to sum up that first paragraph I'd just say my "marriage" was a fucking mess.


----------



## urchin

I'm against it as well, which caused a bit of an issue with my last girlfriend. We're still cool and love each other but marriage isn't my thing. My mom and stepdad got divorced, as did all of my friends but two, and my brother and his wife are on the verge as well. 

The funny thing: My sister is getting married tomorrow and the rehearsal is today. I don't give them five years. They already have four kids between them and my sister is only 27.


----------



## Tumbleweed

Mouse said:


> it's only a business contract. if i was with someone for years and years and there was an opp for me to maybe get health insurance or something else out of marrying them, then yes. But otherwise, I'd stay unwed at all costs.
> 
> I was "married" at one point and it didn't last very long. I loved him enough to do it. but that wasn't how he saw it apparently. we weren't legally married. luckily! cuz it woulda been hell to get that shit fixed after he ruined my life enough already.
> 
> 
> so, i say, don't sign a contract until you've been together for at least 10 years, have kids, or need health care.


From personal experience I can attest to the value of Mouse' advice. My ten year anniversary was a couple of months ago and my wife and I agreed to separate today. We can't dissolve our relationship easily because we have 2 kids, a mortgage and and a strong desire for healthy co-parenting for another 18 years (at least). If I had waited ten years before proposing (I waited two years) we would be in a much different situation, namely, we wouldn't need to involve the state in sorting out our affairs.
I should add that (from a Punk Rock! perspective) I loved being married before we had kids. Marriage can be a great way of proclaiming your allegience to each other before all other allegiences, which is very romantic. But life is change and marriage locks you into a fixed course. I want to raise my wonderful kids with my wife, I just don't want her to be my wife any longer.


----------



## duderino

I'm not trying to piss anyone off with this, but recently, a few of my punk rock friends have been getting married, and every time I hear about it, I think of the song blissful myth by Rudimentary Peni. It just seems to me that marriage is something pushed on people by society, and we as punks should be thinking critically about social norms without jumping into them because "that's what people do." Most weddings are expensive, and even if you go to a courthouse, all you are doing is getting government approval of your relationship, which seems unnecessary to me. For all you married punks out there, what was your reasoning for getting hitched? Thoughts on my shitty opinions?


----------



## Multifaceted

I think marriage has a different meaning depending on who you ask. Reasons for marriage are not always as clear-cut as, "we love each other."

When you get married your auto insurance rates go down, and when you get married you have the legal capability of making decisions regarding your partner's life if they should end up in the hospital on life support, etc. Marriage has many benefits- if it were simply about a piece of paper you pay a shitload to get undone no one would do it.


----------



## roguetrader

I agree that people are under intense presure from society to conform but also I do think humans have a natural tendency to pair off, frequently for long periods of time.... I'm an old punk who didn't believe in marriage but i got with someone at 18 and here I am 26 years later with the same girl who I still love, adore and most definitely wanna be with... we're not officially married in law but might as well be - if we did get hitched it'd be some alternative version which wouldn't be remotely like a white wedding... I think punk and anarchist theory goes too far in attacking every single institution of society, not everything we experience in life is an evil plan of the capitalist elite ! as far as the question of marriage goes what would you prefer if you could choose : a string of short term fuck buddies or to spend life with your soul mate ?​


----------



## duderino

Multifaceted said:


> Marriage has many benefits- if it were simply about a piece of paper you pay a shitload to get undone no one would do it.


Admittedly, I'm pretty ignorant of the benefits of marriage, so maybe I should stop being a cynical shithead and just be happy for my friends. I think some people would still get married if it was just a piece of paper though just because society pushes it so hard.


roguetrader said:


> far as the question of marriage goes what would you prefer if you could choose : a string of short term fuck buddies or to spend life with your soul mate ?


 I'm a weirdo loner, so I would choose neither. I guess that's why I don't understand these things.


----------



## swellard

haha, well, my best friend's parents got married at a skate park (i'm pretty sure they did it for free, too). they were both punks, and they stayed punks forever. unfortunately the daddy is dead now, but he was one gnarly sucker.


----------



## duderino

Crap I just realized there's already a thread with about this with the exact same title. I tried searching and didn't see it when I made this thread. My bad.


----------



## EphemeralStick

@duderino Ha, no worries; it happens to the best of it. I can do a neat trick and merge the old thread with the new one, that way the conversation can keep rollin' on. Keep in mind the original started in 2008 so a lot of the users in the beginning won't be around to respond if you tag them. Either way I digress.

I myself am single now but it is my hope to get married one day. However, I feel it might hold a different meaning to me then it would most hetero normative couples in that activists having been fighting for my right to marry the person I love for decades now. Do I believe in the traditional ceremony based sacrament of marriage? No, absolutely not. But I do believe in honoring those who fought before my time to bring visibility LGBT community and my getting married feels like it would do just that. 

A middle finger to traditional marriage and bigots everywhere, plus a way of honoring the love I have for my partner? Sounds pretty punk to me.


----------



## duderino

@EphemeralStick right on.


----------



## syrinyx

Married the fuck out of @black . Had two week's notice and the ceremony was maybe ten minutes long at the bridge where we first got together. We wrote our vows and a close friend made me a bouquet out of herbs and flowers from my garden. My wedding dress was $20 and is pictured right there to the left in my avatar lol. Afterwards we spent an hour or so with the friends and family that could make it and then drove off to a coastal town two hours away for a two day honey moon before he had to be back at work. That day and the couple after were the happiest I have ever had and maybe always will be-- or at least, that's what I'd say if he didn't continue to bring me to tears every single day because he fills me with such immense joy. We plan in the future to have our ideal spiritual ceremony for just ourselves and our gods in some beautiful forest clearing some day not too far from now.

I used to feel like marriage was unnecessary and outdated and meaningless. When I met my spouse I realized that if/when we decided to get married what it would actually mean to me is the commitment to make it NOT meaningless. The two of us grew up with picture perfect examples of the shittiest a marriage can get. Us deciding to get married was the promise to always defy those examples. It was the statement of courage and trust in one another to never become the monsters that made marriage seem worthless to us. It isn't worthless just because millions of people that shouldn't have gotten married do anyway. I understand that if you've had it or seen it go terribly wrong it may seem that way, and it's a fuckin shame.

Aside from the joy of committing myself to my soul mate with our friends and family there to see and all the philosophical love type things, it's also important for us to be tied legally because I have various and sundry health problems and I need to know that if I'm hospitalized no one can deny my darling access to me. 

I'm sort of rambling now, but what I'm trying to say here is that if you marry the right person the concept of marriage becomes something completely different than what you could ever begin to comprehend beforehand. IMO it's childish as hell to close the idea of marriage in a little box labeled "society's expectations" and forget that it has existed in some form for a long long long long time and means vastly different things among many different societies and individuals and preconceptions and ideals and dynamics. Don't erase the complexities of love and devotion because you think it's punker to do so.


----------

