# Notmyname aka DJ



## autumn (Nov 21, 2017)

People involved:
@Hillbilly Castro,
@Erinn Oface,
@Notmyname and
myself

Back in September, we went to spange in Minneapolis to make some money, drink a bit, and have fun. A girl that he met on Tinder showed up at the spot and hung out with us for a while, then invited us all back to her house. Us four, her, and a random Minneapolis homebum went to her apartment. Everybody except myself and @Erinn Oface got blackout drunk.

The girl pretty much immediately passed out, stone cold, mostly naked on the bed and @Notmyname kept touching her legs, feet, etc, despite myself and @Hillbilly Castro repeatedly telling him to stop and physically stopping him from touching her. @Erinn Oface explained to him that what he was doing wasn't okay and that seemed to calm him down for a bit.

Not ten minutes later he climbed on top of her and started taking her underwear off, so I pulled him off of her and held him in a headlock while trying to figure out what to do with him. I somewhat let him go when he started having trouble breathing and @Erinn Oface managed to talk him down.

He began rambling about how what he did was fucked up and he deserved to get his ass kicked. He shortly after passed out but woke up about an hour later and was putting his fingers on her mouth. Once again I physically stopped him from touching her and he passed out again a while later, seemingly for good.

We rolled out at about 6AM and left the homebum there to deal with him when he woke up.

We could have expelled him from the apartment but it seemed like a bad idea to me given the state he was in; his behavior towards random people on the street would have been unpredictable and potentially predatory. Neither myself nor @Erinn Oface were going to be able to sleep so it made the most sense.


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## Notmyname (Nov 21, 2017)

At this point I can't refute shit cause I was so fucked up. But I will stand by what I said and give you permission to fuck me up on sight if that's really what happened. 4 can I also ask why you didn't say any of this to my brother when you went back to the RV?


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## Notmyname (Nov 21, 2017)

And also if it was as you say, why didnt I end up in the untrustworthy and shady people section the day after?


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## Notmyname (Nov 21, 2017)

If Kat was dunk enough to black out and to pass out almost immediately, how was she able to drive a car full of drunk bums to her house in a busy college area on a Saturday night with no issues? When Jason said why you guys left she said she didn't believe that I was being rapey. Maybe I was trying to wake her up with some fooling around, idk. Not saying I didn't cross a line. But calling me a rapist is a little far fetched.


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## Zaphod (Nov 21, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> Maybe I was trying to wake her up with some fooling around, idk. Not saying I didn't cross a line. But calling me a rapist is a little far fetched.



the activity you just described there: yeah, that's fucking rape. People were there and will corroborate this. You'd be much better off taking accountability for your actions rather than trying to blame shift


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## autumn (Nov 21, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> At this point I can't refute shit cause I was so fucked up. But I will stand by what I said and give you permission to fuck me up on sight if that's really what happened. 4 can I also ask why you didn't say any of this to my brother when you went back to the RV?





Notmyname said:


> And also if it was as you say, why didnt I end up in the untrustworthy and shady people section the day after?





Notmyname said:


> If Kat was dunk enough to black out and to pass out almost immediately, how was she able to drive a car full of drunk bums to her house in a busy college area on a Saturday night with no issues? When Jason said why you guys left she said she didn't believe that I was being rapey. Maybe I was trying to wake her up with some fooling around, idk. Not saying I didn't cross a line. But calling me a rapist is a little far fetched.




Given that we were waiting for Minnow's medication to arrive @ your brothers house, it seemed prudent not to mention it to your brother.


I haven't posted this until now because:

1. @Hillbilly Castro had some idea that he was going to "reform" you in a way that didn't involve the possibility of being ostracized. Instead, it seems that he never even spoke to you.

2. @Erinn Oface seemed reluctant to corroborate what I've said due to fear of confrontations. 

3. It seemed that Andy might pressure her not to post in this thread given that you're friends; moreso now given the fact that he never even spoke to you about it 


The moment we got back to the house, the 4 of you were slamming shitty vodka. You went through the entire bottle in less than 15 minutes.


Whether or not she believes you were being "rapey" doesn't matter. You were touching a sleeping person without their consent.


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## creature (Nov 21, 2017)

if this happened (which i heard from more than one source involved, within about 48 hours or less if when it allegedly happened)  then it was while you wete intoxicated, and as such you are lucky not to be dead or worse.
people's bodies do shit on alcohol, because it fucks up their brains, and as such you can be cut a little slack, but only because you were fortunately stopped.
if that is not you in your sober state, you need to never fucking drink again, or only drink when you are by yourself, away from other people,well planed in advance.

some folks at functional on shit that fucks others up..
that's the nature of fucking psychoactives..

I heard this shit in such a way as to believe it, from more than one source, but I have an inclination to believe your conscious self was subdued by chemical interaction.

the bottom line is that you now have information regarding your interaction with alcohol, and need to make an appropriate response regarding it and your being.

consider that this had gone down not as a strike against your personal identity, but as an issue you need to address, if true.

do not respond with denial.

people here don't just fucking shoot on sight.

have there been any past episodes?
if not, then you got an early call out, is be thankful & contrite..

don't know why this surfaced now, but it affected me over a month ago, when first discussed.

if you've acknowledged and dealt with it, great...

like I said dunno why it is shooting up now, but my inclinaton is to believe it is for your own good, regardless.

respond with responsibility, and assume the worst is true.
apologize & correct your behavior.

maybe it will never happen again, but it is better to be warned by reasonable people, than to be judgmed by total shits..

good luck, buddy, if you take the info well..


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## Deleted member 20 (Nov 21, 2017)

I think when people purposefully get blackout drunk than they must expect that bad things do & will happen. If I drink to get drunk as fast as I can, then quickly I get drunk; I then relinquish all control. If I get drunk an passed out; I cannot protect myself, I can't give consent or even trust my own behavior while drunk. Getting drunk is the common denominator in 99% of all drama, turmoil, violence & conflict on STP.

While what was described probably is not rape, it could have been had a sober person with a conscience not stepped in. Is it untrustworthy & shady? It sounds like it could be sexual assault but??. Where is the female (victim) in all of this? I doubt she would remember anything if she was actually passed out. I think without the actual supposed victim claiming foul it is hard to determine. From another post about this topic on "rape & dressing slutty" @Notmyname & this chick had previously arranged to meet for sex on tinder. This kinda would elude that some sort of prior consent was prearranged before their meeting. Does getting blackout drunk together negate that consent??? Whether public drunken rape sex in front of others was what was planned or not. How many times did I have to get completely drunk to have sex? You cannot rape the willing, one who is passed out may not be 100% willing but are they 100% unwilling????

Sobbahs Beddah


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## Matt Derrick (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm depressed that I even have to explain this.

@highwayman first, there were multiple witnesses, almost all of which are members of StP.

second, you weren't there, so you can't make any assumptions about consent. so take all your 'maybes' and 'what if's' and flush em.

third, if you fuck me while I'm passed out, i'm gonna be pretty fucking pissed about it. i can't imagine anyone that would be okay with that. so yes, that is rape. if the other person can't explicitly consent in the moment, yes, that is rape. even an 'i want you to fuck me' text via tinder is not an excuse _or a contract_ that makes unconscious sex later okay in any way.

again, WHY AM I HAVING TO EXPLAIN THIS???? this is consent 101 people. geez.


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## Notmyname (Nov 21, 2017)

creature said:


> if this happened (which i heard from more than one source involved, within about 48 hours or less if when it allegedly happened)  then it was while you wete intoxicated, and as such you are lucky not to be dead or worse.
> people's bodies do shit on alcohol, because it fucks up their brains, and as such you can be cut a little slack, but only because you were fortunately stopped.
> if that is not you in your sober state, you need to never fucking drink again, or only drink when you are by yourself, away from other people,well planed in advance.
> 
> ...



Creature I respect the fuck outta you so I'm taking what you say to heart. I can't explain why this just blew up on here instead of the people involved talking to me about it directly. Believe me or not, after that day I did actually start to moderate my drinking. I didnt know what I did but it pissed off my friends to the point of not talking to me. I knew I fucked up, just not how bad. I don't want people to think that my denial is avoiding responsibility. I just didn't believe that it actually happened like that.


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## Deleted member 18141 (Nov 21, 2017)

Hey, it's taken me a while to chime in on all of this because I'm still very disturbed by it all like literally shaking as I type this and remember it. So everything zim says about the night is entirely true. Save some of the gruesome details that included us having to roll this poor girl over on her side because she was vomiting in her sleep. I still have nightmares about this. I was very reluctant at first because I felt that immediately outing dj from what I felt to be the only community he was strongly a part of would cause him to drink/act out more and potentially harm himself or others more. I also was in a shell shock of my own as this homebum that was present, who had waited till zim had left the room to make a phone call and I was alone with everyone else passed out drunk, tried to kiss and hug me. I didn't make a big deal out of it at the time or really tell anyone because I just so badly wanted to make sure no one else choked on their vomit or did anything dangerous. So my silence has mostly been due to feeling sick and scared whenever I remember it. Dj what you did was so bad and messed up and that girl had no way to consent to anything in that moment and I'm sure her denying anything the morning after was her trying to repress the fear and confusion she felt. I'm sure I would have reacted in a similar way if I were her. I really hope you can be better in the future. I hope you don't hurt anyone anymore. Please be better.


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## Multifaceted (Nov 22, 2017)

This area of the board is for warnings, so now we are all warned. He will still be out there on the streets with us, though, so I still feel like he should be a part of the site.. Hopefully if anyone does give him another chance he remembers this and- no.. Hopefully if he gets another chance the ideas never even cross his mind.. But if they do, i hope he can know without a doubt that it's wrong and doesnt give them any more thought..

I personally feel like a removal of him from the board could be potentially more dangerous.. The homebums we dislike don't disappear when we shun them. We still have to coexist.. Seeing them around the city and hearing about and from them helps further our understanding of them, rendering us safer through more predictability. It could also potentiate him seeking to better his current identitity by growing rather than creating a new one to hide behind.. 

DJ, I wouldnt hang out with you. Drinking is one of my least favorite things because of this type of crap. People change for the worst so often.. Seek help. Stop drinking. Please. 

And highwayman.. I see where youre coming from but no, it most certainly relinquishes consent when we are no longer present to consciously revoke it ourselves. Sometimes we stop consenting mid-coitous. We cant do that if we are passed tf out.

Lastly.. Erinn.. Thank you for protecting her. Thank you for giving everyone's feelings consideration. Thank you for speaking up now. You did no wrong whatsoever and we need more people like you in the world. I hope we cross paths.


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## LeeenPocket (Nov 22, 2017)

https://squattheplanet.com/threads/...ringing-the-focus-away-from-punishment.30728/

I believe this is what Hillbilly meant by trying to reform him. And, honestly, I agree with him. DJ isn't a predator. He gets touchy feely when he gets drunk. Maybe now that it's presented as a public problem he'll do something about it. Ostracizing him is NOT the answer. We should support him if he's willing to accept it without excuse and make a change.
Like you said Boof. If you did it, beat your ass. Fuck that. If you did it, that's the easy way out for you. If you did it, accept it and change something to ensure it doesn't happen again. Now that you know, doing anything less would be a conscious decision on your part to continue being a possible threat while you're drunk.


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## Dameon (Nov 22, 2017)

LeeenPocket said:


> I believe this is what Hillbilly meant by trying to reform him. And, honestly, I agree with him. DJ isn't a predator. He gets touchy feely when he gets drunk. Maybe now that it's presented as a public problem he'll do something about it. Ostracizing him is NOT the answer. We should support him if he's willing to accept it without excuse and make a change.


You say "he isn't a predator" in one sentence, and then describe the behaviour of a predator in the next sentence. The fact that he's drunk just means he has to lower his inhibitions before his predatory nature emerges. He already MADE excuses and denied it. He denied practically every detail of the story that would imply any responsibility on his part, and hasn't accepted responsibility.


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## Zaphod (Nov 22, 2017)

Dameon said:


> You say "he isn't a predator" in one sentence, and then describe the behaviour of a predator in the next sentence. The fact that he's drunk just means he has to lower his inhibitions before his predatory nature emerges. He already MADE excuses and denied it. He denied practically every detail of the story that would imply any responsibility on his part, and hasn't accepted responsibility.



ALL OF THIS


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## QueerCoyote (Nov 22, 2017)

LeeenPocket said:


> And, honestly, I agree with him. DJ isn't a predator. He gets touchy feely when he gets drunk.



If someone is trying to sexually assault someone while they're unconscious, they're a predator, intoxicated or not. 

"Touchy feely" is way too polite a phrase for touching, undressing, and inserting fingers into the mouth of an unconscious person. He gets assaultive when drunk, by what's described here. Call it what it is and if he wants to maintain standing in the community he'll own up to it and try to do better.


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## zaye rodriguez (Nov 22, 2017)

Zaphod said:


> the activity you just described there: yeah, that's fucking rape. People were there and will corroborate this. You'd be much better off taking accountability for your actions rather than trying to blame shift




Exactly! People just can't go around excusing EVERYTHING.


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## zaye rodriguez (Nov 22, 2017)

QueerCoyote said:


> If someone is trying to sexually assault someone while they're unconscious, they're a predator, intoxicated or not.
> 
> "Touchy feely" is way too polite a phrase for touching, undressing, and inserting fingers into the mouth of an unconscious person. He gets assaultive when drunk, by what's described here. Call it what it is and if he wants to maintain standing in the community he'll own up to it and try to do better.


 
But that person is a danger if he's going around doing that. should he really be given a second chance ? Wouldn't taking a chance in him be putting people at risk? That doesn't really sound fair. Its just all about him getting a second chance, not about the safety of innoncent women or young girls. Just because people are homeless, doesn't mean they have to accept that in to whatever community they join. One doesn't have to accept a preditor in their homeless community anymore than in a traditional neighborhood. I don't see the balance in that.


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## Notmyname (Nov 23, 2017)

All I have left to say about this is thanks to the people who have actually fucking met me, for seeing that I'm not a lost cause. The people treating me like a serial rapist monster don't know shit about me. The context of the events is important. The assault in question is totally different than touching your friends ass while partying at a bonfire . I've already said I'm not denying shit cause I can't. I was fucking there and didn't even know what went down so you bet your ass I'm gonna be asking questions. As far as community goes I may or may not stick around here but I'm not gonna stop travelling. 

And Erin. I like that you put thought into this whole thing. But someone should have talked to me about it long ago. For fucks sake creature knew what happened before I did and that's fucked up. I appreciate the sentiment and respect the idea, but keeping me in the dark for so long just seems really counter productive. And now I'm effectively green lighted as a rapist over an isolated incident that thankfully never resulted in rape, putting me and my dog in danger. 

The people who read this that don't know me won't give a single shit about the fact that I quit drinking, or the fact that I was stopped, or the fact that I've never done anything like this, or that fact that I'll make sure it doesn't happen again. That won't matter to someone who wants to throw a rapist under a train.


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## Dameon (Nov 23, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> The people who read this that don't know me won't give a single shit about the fact that I quit drinking, or the fact that I was stopped, or the fact that I've never done anything like this, or that fact that I'll make sure it doesn't happen again. That won't matter to someone who wants to throw a rapist under a train.


Good move quitting drinking. It sucks you weren't told about this right away. I've been a piece of shit while blacked out before, and been lucky enough to have friends rub my face in it the next day. But you're not the victim here. Your entire post is about how this is going to hurt you, not how you nearly raped somebody else and had to be physically stopped multiple times, and we only have your word that this is the only time this sort of thing has happened. Not super reliable since you didn't know THIS happened.

You haven't admitted wrongdoing, you haven't apologized, or taken ownership of your actions. You haven't accepted responsibility, or really shown any personal insight at all. It's just "me me me". You owe that girl an apology, even if she doesn't remember it. Dude, you've acted like a predator when your inhibitions have been lowered. You need to address that part of yourself and really figure out where that's coming from, who you want to be, and what you're going to do about it.


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## LeeenPocket (Nov 23, 2017)

Shunning him from the only community he has to turn to for support is not going to keep anyone safe. It's more likely to make him drink more. Putting him and others that he drinks around in danger. 

At this point, DJ. You have no memory of the incident but you do have people trying to fill it in for you, regardless of how unpleasant it is. You have to take more responsibility for what happened. You know getting drunk is an issue for you. So you have to do something with that information. 



Notmyname said:


> I quit drinking


And it appears you have. I really hope you keep up with it despite all of this. I'm not going to shun you from my community. Anytime you want or need to talk, you know how to reach me. But you know how I feel about this topic. I'm giving you a second chance because even though you're hesitant to take full responsibility because of the events surrounding the situation, you've at least made a change in the right direction by removing alcohol from the equation.


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## autumn (Nov 23, 2017)

Dameon said:


> Good move quitting drinking. It sucks you weren't told about this right away. I've been a piece of shit while blacked out before, and been lucky enough to have friends rub my face in it the next day. But you're not the victim here. Your entire post is about how this is going to hurt you, not how you nearly raped somebody else and had to be physically stopped multiple times, and we only have your word that this is the only time this sort of thing has happened. Not super reliable since you didn't know THIS happened.
> 
> You haven't admitted wrongdoing, you haven't apologized, or taken ownership of your actions. You haven't accepted responsibility, or really shown any personal insight at all. It's just "me me me". You owe that girl an apology, even if she doesn't remember it. Dude, you've acted like a predator when your inhibitions have been lowered. You need to address that part of yourself and really figure out where that's coming from, who you want to be, and what you're going to do about it.



For what it's worth, after it happened, he was also rambling about how "this has happened before" in kansas city


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## QueerCoyote (Nov 23, 2017)

zaye rodriguez said:


> But that person is a danger if he's going around doing that. should he really be given a second chance ? Wouldn't taking a chance in him be putting people at risk? That doesn't really sound fair. Its just all about him getting a second chance, not about the safety of innoncent women or young girls. Just because people are homeless, doesn't mean they have to accept that in to whatever community they join. One doesn't have to accept a preditor in their homeless community anymore than in a traditional neighborhood. I don't see the balance in that.



If he's never done anything similar and is willing to give up drinking, I would _personally_ give him a second chance. In this case it seems removing the drinking would remove the danger he could present, and now this is going to be common knowledge to folk in this online circle where he can be held accountable. How much more risk would he present if ostracized from the community and had no accountability to others or support to keep sober?

I will admit I'm a bit iffy as apparently by his own words this has happened once before, and because of the reply where he stressed that they had met the victim on tinder which came off as him trying to excuse his actions. If there are assault victims on the forum who are extremely uncomfortable with him being here those feelings are entirely valid and warrant some deep discussion on the best way to support both parties: concerned parties in feeling safe and respected, and DJ in recovering from a lifestyle and mindset that enables him to assault others. If that discussion results in him being removed from this community to protect vulnerable members that is what it is, but I hope either way that he's able to get support to continue his sobriety and be part of a larger community.


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## Notmyname (Nov 23, 2017)

I've never even fucking been to Kansas City. Shit makes no sense.

Actually I have passed through on Amtrak once. Was there for a few hours to change trains. I never met anyone there and never even left the station.



Dameon said:


> Good move quitting drinking. It sucks you weren't told about this right away. I've been a piece of shit while blacked out before, and been lucky enough to have friends rub my face in it the next day. But you're not the victim here. Your entire post is about how this is going to hurt you, not how you nearly raped somebody else and had to be physically stopped multiple times, and we only have your word that this is the only time this sort of thing has happened. Not super reliable since you didn't know THIS happened.
> 
> You haven't admitted wrongdoing, you haven't apologized, or taken ownership of your actions. You haven't accepted responsibility, or really shown any personal insight at all. It's just "me me me". You owe that girl an apology, even if she doesn't remember it. Dude, you've acted like a predator when your inhibitions have been lowered. You need to address that part of yourself and really figure out where that's coming from, who you want to be, and what you're going to do about it.


I completely agree about owing her an apology but I don't know her full name or how to get in touch with her. And as far as my me me me shit I know that I'm not the victim but I hope you can try to understand how scary and shitty it is to find out that you're capable of sexual assault and have no memories of it.


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## QueerCoyote (Nov 23, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> I completely agree about owing her an apology but I don't know her full name or how to get in touch with her.



Can you message her on your tinder conversation? Maybe figure out where her house was that you went to and send a letter. I'd be very conscious of wording when contacting her.


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## Notmyname (Nov 23, 2017)

QueerCoyote said:


> Can you message her on your tinder conversation? Maybe figure out where her house was that you went to and send a letter. I'd be very conscious of wording when contacting her.



This happened so long ago we aren't matched on there anymore. She lives in an apartment so I won't be able to find her adress


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## Hillbilly Castro (Nov 23, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> But someone should have talked to me about it long ago. .



Dj, this was my fault. It was not my decision to just up and leave the next day, but as I was still wasted the next morning, I had to roll out with the others. Then I spent another several weeks in the RV, where I was taking some flack for thinking you were a decent dude who made a shitty mistake, instead of simply casting you out as an evil rapist in a black-and-white way. I didn't want to discuss the shit with you in such proximity to the others, where we were already having conflicts that originated elsewhere and in other issues. I just wanted that chapter of my time on the road to be over - so I kept my mouth shut and held on. 

I was also scared I'd call you and you'd handle it poorly and deny it - like other folks who've assaulted people have done in the past, in my experience. It's not an excuse to not call you, but it did keep me from actually making the call every time I thought I should. Plus, Erin, who I spend all of my time with, was so traumatized by the event that speaking with you near her would make her very upset. 

I should have made some time and given you a call, and probably within a week or two of that night. I'm sorry I didn't call you, open up a dialogue, and treat you like a friend instead of a "criminal specimen". Mostly, I was shocked.. You never seemed like the type, but now we know - and we know that you've got some healing to do which you goddamn better take seriously. You said to Zim "kick my ass if it's true" but getting your ass whooped is a lot easier than whooping your own ass into shape and unpacking that big dirty closet of shit inside ya that would push your subconscious mind to do that...

That's the real issue here, and it seems like you're taking it well. 
If you ever need help with that healing, call me up.
Otherwise not sure what to say but sorry - sorry I didn't call, sorry we had to leave, and sorry the world you've lived in has you carrying a heavy load.


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## LeeenPocket (Nov 23, 2017)

Notmyname said:


> I know that I'm not the victim but I hope you can try to understand how scary and shitty it is to find out that you're capable of sexual assault and have no memories of it.



Read the post in the link from my one of my previous comments! This is why I, and apparently Hillbilly Castro, feel DJ is a prime example of someone who can benefit from reform, rather than ostracization. I've spent a good amount of time with DJ and I can tell you he is not like this when he isn't drinking. And as a rape survivor myself, I never felt unsafe when drinking with him. Rape is about control and domination and that is so not him. But being blackout drunk is not an excuse for touching an unconscious person, regardless of what your mutual intentions were before they passed out. I still stand by what I said. You're still apart of my community as long as you're trying to ensure it doesn't happen again.


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## Deleted member 18141 (Nov 23, 2017)

@Notmyname I don't know you all that well dj which is why I avoided contact with you. You sent some pretty agressive text messages after asking me to talk to you about it which scared me after all things considered . I don't really know you and after going from a day of hiking to that I didn't know what to make of it. I also didn't tell your brother because he has a family and honestly still in that moment felt that turning him against you would have made you go off the wall. Was also counting on hillbilly to talk to you about this as he seems to know you better, which I'm hoping he will soon.


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## Notmyname (Nov 25, 2017)

Hillbilly Castro said:


> Dj, this was my fault. It was not my decision to just up and leave the next day, but as I was still wasted the next morning, I had to roll out with the others. Then I spent another several weeks in the RV, where I was taking some flack for thinking you were a decent dude who made a shitty mistake, instead of simply casting you out as an evil rapist in a black-and-white way. I didn't want to discuss the shit with you in such proximity to the others, where we were already having conflicts that originated elsewhere and in other issues. I just wanted that chapter of my time on the road to be over - so I kept my mouth shut and held on.
> 
> I was also scared I'd call you and you'd handle it poorly and deny it - like other folks who've assaulted people have done in the past, in my experience. It's not an excuse to not call you, but it did keep me from actually making the call every time I thought I should. Plus, Erin, who I spend all of my time with, was so traumatized by the event that speaking with you near her would make her very upset.
> 
> ...


It's all good. I really don't have much else to say about this but I'm not mad at you. If I ever find some wifi that's strong enough to make a call I'll definitely hit you up. This whole shit is just so fucking crazy. Honestly i told Zim to fuck me up cause he chose to not call the cops. I feel like police intervention is bullshit like 90 percent of the time so I'm okay with handling it another way. I have lots of time to dwell on this and try to figure some shit out. I've been working on it pretty much constantly since this whole thing came up. And I'm connecting some dots, but there's a lot to sift through in the past 21 or so years of memories. Not even including shit I don't remember. I still consider you a good friend and I'll get in touch with you on the phone or in person before too long. Thanks for seeing through the bullshit and having some faith in me. It means a lot for real.


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## EphemeralStick (Nov 25, 2017)

It sounds like you have a desire to change. That's a positive way to look at this situation, even if it's vapid. However, allow me to make this point very clear.

DJ, you are no longer welcome in or around my company. You will not be forgiven because what you did cannot be forgiven.

And honestly, shame on the rest of you. @Hillbilly Castro you talk of healing as if there is something traumatic that initiates this behavior. Would you stand by this for every man who commits sexual assault? Would you give this same benefit of the doubt to Brock Turner? What if he was your friend? I've been through more sexual trauma than I would wish on my worst of enemies and not once in my life have I ever thought to take advantage of somebody in a vulnerable state no matter how black out drunk I was. You're making excuses for a behavior that is inexcusable. I now know to never rely on you in the future when dealing with the topics of sexual assault and rape.

@LeeenPocket would you still be wanting to give him a chance of he did this to you? What if you were the one to be assaulted and then everyone else was all, he should be given another chance? How would that make you feel? How do you think his victim feels?

@zim its good that you came forward but make no mistake, this situation should have been addressed a HELL of a lot sooner. In these moments your conviction must be unwavering. You knew what was happening was wrong and yet you waited for Andy to take care of it, which never happened. I get that it was uncomfortable for you but just think of what that girl must be feeling. We owe it to the victim to bring justice to the offender.

@Erinn Oface, I've never met you in person like these others. I do not know who you are or what lies in your heart but what I do understand is fear. It sounds like you felt a lot of that during this situation and for that I am sorry. However, you shouldn't let fear keep you from coming forward when you know a situation needs to be addressed and brought into the light of the community.

@Notmyname, again what you did is unforgivable. If it were up to me I would ban you from this community without a second thought. THAT is how we keep a community safe from those who have the potential to prey on others, by not allowing them another opportunity within our metaphorical home. And should the community decide that is what they want I will do just that. You will *never* be forgiven.

As for the rest of you who were there, you all fucked up too. I hope you take the time meditate on that and make swifter decisions for the future.


I can only hope that girl has a community to support her through whatever she is feeling. I am sad to see ours this misdirected.


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## creature (Nov 25, 2017)

Well..
My van is pointed towards the fucking Ocean..

I dunno..

I am such a fucking coward..
I am such a fucking *human*...

I think we all need to just kill each other & get our shit over & done with.

No fucking kidding.

Humans are more fucked up than a shitty smart phone.

Goddamn I am glad everyone I ever knew gave up on me..
Or beat the shit out of me
or DC int didn't fucking CD are. ccare

Or did shit ebven more fucked up, atfete wards.. AAaftrr WA ards. shit...
afterwards..

Goddamn, I wish I were as perfect as *this* fucking phone, since I am normally so fucking perfect otherwise..

Goddamn I livke killing my fucking friends..

Damn fuck àlmighty I love hutrtong the best & most introspective & self ounibdshing .. punishing people I have ever met, since they are such easy fucking targets..

I am really fucking perfect & never make any mistakes, so I know what forgiveness is all about, right?

Kill me, Mr. Backspace key..

Ok..
So we have drunken brother who did some fucked up shit.

He gets it. 
Unless he does it again.

LSD, cocaine, meth, sake, whatever..

Whatever you do that fucks up your head, you are responsible for.

Coffee, anger, addiction to porn, hate, addiction to meat, being an ideioigoge. Whatever...

Here..
Let's each have s gun & each have a bullet & thereafter practice 'democracy', instead of anarchy...

be glad that 'democracy' is the threshold at which actual 'anarchy' can begin its experimentation..

What fucking use is there in bitching at someone *unless* it might actually make a difference?

We are just apes beating our fucking chests..

you want to judge?
adnit your worst fucking sins, first.

Otherwise shut the fuck up.


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## autumn (Nov 26, 2017)

creature said:


> Well..
> My van is pointed towards the fucking Ocean..
> 
> I dunno..
> ...



@creature I love you though I completely disagree with you on this.

Worst sins? Maybe:


When I was 13, I called a girl who liked me fat and ugly

Used racial slurs as often as 'fuck' in my early teen years

Stole from everyone I knew including my family to score heroin (5 years clean thankfully, just so there's no confusion)
I could go on, but I mean, there's no point.. none of these things even remotely compare to attempting to rape somebody.

It was clear to both Minnow and I from the moment we met DJ that he had issues with misogyny. He objectified every woman he talked about (eg. "she had huge tits"). So this is not surprising at all. - and a longtime friend of DJs (@LeeenPocket) is not going to be the best judge of character here. People don't drink themselves into being rapists, anymore than they drink themselves into being serial killers. We are talking about willfully assaulting someone who is unconscious. Intoxicated or not, there is no gray area.


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## salxtina (Nov 26, 2017)

Yeah I've been creeped out by this person since he posted about "wanting to choke a bitch" but that was ostensibly about shit that a consenting adult was agreeing to...

(can this possibly be treated as 'off-topic' after many of the last posts on this page?)


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## Hillbilly Castro (Nov 26, 2017)

EphemeralStick said:


> @Hillbilly Castro you talk of healing as if there is something traumatic that initiates this behavior. Would you stand by this for every man who commits sexual assault? Would you give this same benefit of the doubt to Brock Turner? What if he was your friend? I've been through more sexual trauma than I would wish on my worst of enemies and not once in my life have I ever thought to take advantage of somebody in a vulnerable state no matter how black out drunk I was. You're making excuses for a behavior that is inexcusable. I now know to never rely on you in the future when dealing with the topics of sexual assault and rape.



Well, there ain't a whole lot I can say to that. What do you propose be done with these folks? Let an angry mob round them up and execute them? Probably that would get time consuming, because there are so many of these people, and it would prove more efficient to run a few death camps. Or perhaps to run some colony of exiles in Antarctica. Since you asked, I'll say the two things that come to my mind about this way of thinking: First, I wouldn't volunteer to run the death camps, prisons, or penal colonies that your way of thinking seem to necessitate, because death and confinement are ugly jobs. Nor would I have someone else do these jobs for me. Second, since there are so many of these people - and similar types among racists, murderers, and other undesirables - I find myself forced to ask whether there is a system, culture, or some large circumstantial thing that pushes otherwise decent people to be rapists, sexual assaulters, etc. 

Worth saying on that second point is that we live in the most violent and alienating human society that has ever existed. We've been human for 200,000 years. We've only known the world of bright Chuck E. Cheese lights, absolutely perverse and omnipresent free pornography, industrial-caliber drugs, total isolation and breakdown of the extended (and often nuclear) family, and an intense culture of discipline and punish, of glorifying cyber warfare and the fastest destruction of the ecosphere that has ever proceeded - for about fifty years. That's 0.025% of human history being radically different from the other 99.9% - this larger percentage being a time of hunting and gathering in societies that generally consisted of large extended families which supported and did not discipline children, where sexual violence, depression, and suicide are virtually always unknown. It makes sense that some of us have not adjusted well to this brave new world of civilized emptiness. I contend that the destruction of our original human culture has created a monster - both in the collective and in the individual sense, and that this monster is what we are at war with. Can we successfully fight this monster without destroying too many people? Sometimes, the logical conclusion of "unforgivability" may be required - execution - but personally, knowing what it is to kill another living thing, I know better than to jump to this messy conclusion too soon. 
In Dj's case, he can see the gravity of the situation now - he has been warned. Now, he heals, or he proves himself to be unforgivable. 

All of that seems too great and too relevant a tribulation to ignore. If my opinion marks me as a heretic or other undesirable, so be it. I'd rather be honest about what I think than hide it for the sake of appearing digestible and nonthreatening to the collective here. The article I posted a while back was written from the heart of the most liberal college in America, where the ideas you espouse were born - and its author saw how the logical conclusion of those ideas does not bring the community any closer to a livable world.


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## EphemeralStick (Nov 26, 2017)

@Hillbilly Castro no, no penal colonies. Stop thinking about this in a macro sense.

I don't give a flying fuck what DJ wants to do to make up for his transgressions and it's not my responsibility to help him. Your friend sexually assaulted someone. That is not the kind of person we need in our community. That is the kind of fuck up you don't come back from.

What I'm proposing is he finds himself some other place in the world to find community because sexual assault can NOT be tolerated.


You can spout out theories and numbers all day but the fact of the matter is YOUR FRIEND SEXUALLY ASSAULTED SOMEONE. And you are forgiving of that. If you think there's a better solution than ostracizing then you can be the one to rehabilitate him, but seeing as you practically ignored the issue until it was addressed here that's more than likely not going to happen.

That is your problem here, you are all theory and no application.


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## Hillbilly Castro (Nov 26, 2017)

I am "forgiving of that"? If a thing was not perpetrated against me, I cannot forgive or not forgive it in any meaningful sense. I can observe it, say how terrible it was, show my friend another way, and if he rejects this first chance, let him go.

Either way, this "be perfect or go to hell" mentality will, in the longrun, create a community of people that gets smaller and smaller, more and more self-righteous, and composed of people who value the aesthetic of purity more than actually having honest content to their person. I learned that in college, where there's a lot of commie groupthink and rabid witchhunting about this shit. Particularly in a community of itinerant unemployables, drunks, ramblers, anarchists, and howling fools such as our milieu, you'll find a tablespoonful in every ton of us to be crisp around the edges and in any sense "pure"... we've all hurt people in different ways, and maybe I'm an optimist, but if our communities matter to us it should only take one warning to shape up. If we refuse to give that warning, we'll shrink, and the hordes of scumfuck traveling kids will overrun us..

Anyway, I've said my piece. Dj's got the message, everyone else has been warned, and there's a lot to be learned on everyone's part. I myself won't drink liquor anymore, and will take damn good care to see these situations before they happen when possible.


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## Matt Derrick (Nov 26, 2017)

okay folks, time to take all political and philosophical debate to another thread. if it doesn't pertain to the OP, please create another thread for it.


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## Shwillam (Feb 11, 2018)

This makes me so sad. And angry. DJ came off to me as such a good and sweet person. I wish I could get on the forgiveness bandwagon but tbh, I’m with @EphemeralStick on this one. I can’t look over such a serious offence. I’m a fucking ASSHOLE drunk, I mean ask @Matt Derrick @Shwhiskey Gumimaci @dumpsternavel ect, I am an unbelievable douche when I drink And I truly believe this points to serious flaws in my heart and personality that I’m constantly in the process of addressing, but I’ve never once committed a blantant example of sexual assault. As much as I enjoyed DJs company, I will never associate with him again knowing this.


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## Coywolf (Feb 11, 2018)

I'm with @Hillbilly Castro on this one.

I understand that sexual assault has no place anywhere, and that one can never be truly forgiven for it.

But this idea of banning and shunning someone completely from a community (BTW is this A community, or YOUR community?) Because of a transgression, in this case, that the perpetrator has apologized for and accepted that he has a serious problem, is not the solution.

What will be next? And who will draw the line? I personally would like to see the people on this site that go around blatantly calling others racists, sexists, misogynists, nazis, ect. With their "higher than thou, I'm right you are wrong" attitude, stop what they are doing, but I will never call for them to be forcefully removed from this community, unless there is a poll, there is a danger to others, or the person refuses to stop, or endorses their behavoir.

@EphermalStick I respect you as a person, and as a moderator here, but I don't agree with you on this topic.

What Castro said about this causing a community to be more exclusive, and become smaller and smaller is absolutely right. 

I believe that using others views and experiences as education and rehabilitating is much more important than swinging a giant ban hammer.

If certain people no longer want to associate with @Notmyname, I can understand, and that is their choice, but please don't make that decision for me. There is an ignore button for that. 

And as far as public shaming is concerned, I'm all for it. But please, at least try talking to the person first beforehand.

Shaming can be useful, and it let's the community know about potential dangerous/shady activity, I'm for it. But I stand with my statement above.

@MattDerrik if this post isint appropriate, don't approve it. But I couldn't keep my mouth shut on this one.


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## Matt Derrick (Feb 11, 2018)

Coywolf said:


> I'm with @Hillbilly Castro on this one.
> 
> I understand that sexual assault has no place anywhere, and that one can never be truly forgiven for it.
> 
> ...



well, your first mistake is that @notmyname was never banned. he closed his account a few weeks ago, long after this discussion stopped receiving replies.

second, there's a _*world of difference*_ between people calling each other whatever names online and sexually assaulting someone in real life. to even make that kind of comparison is ridiculous.

third, i could really give two shits about welcoming people into this community that think it's okay to commit sexual assault of _any _kind. if that makes the community smaller, then so be it. we don't need those kinds of people here.

fourth, a LOT of users mistake this section of the forums as an opinion column where anyone can voice what they think about situations that don't involve them in any way. this is false. this section is to alert people about potentially dangerous people they might encounter on the road. not what your opinion is about it. you're free to discuss this topic by creating another thread in a different section of the forums.

finally, @Coywolf i want to be clear that i'm not attacking you in any way or directing most of this at you, these are just a few things i felt needed to be said to clarify this situation. with that said, i believe this thread has run it's course and letting people continue to voice their opinions on the matter (instead of facts) will only cloud up the waters of this subject. so i'm closing this thread to further replies.


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