# Taking the king's deer



## oldmanLee (Jan 5, 2010)

Okay,with all apologies to all the vegans,vegetarians,and animal rights activists on this forum,I would like to find out if anyone else has been a poacher.I make no apology for eating meat,I do most all of my own killing and have a bit of contempt for those that will eat flesh but won't do the deed.Also cannot stand the concept of the trophy hunter,if I were to take a tropy of a hunt;would hope that the animal was far enough up the food chain to hunt back,and that I meet it on close terms.So,who else has taken the "king's deer"?


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## yarn and glue (Jan 6, 2010)

It depends on what you mean by "poacher."

There's the relatively harmless type who simply hunt bountiful species (such as deer) out of season, on government property, or without a license -- but still do so in a sporting way. I believe there's something to be said for at least considering the ecological justification for some hunting laws before you go breaking them, but obviously other laws, such as the required hunting license, serve only to generate profit and can thus be stealthily ignored.

I'm assuming that you think of yourself as being in the first category, based on the romantic Robin Hood allusion!

The other type of poacher is, to borrow your phrase, "beneath my contempt": firing from roadways, using spotlights, targeting exotic endangered species, taking trophies, and generally showing no respect for the tradition of the hunt. I believe that this second group is what most people will most closely identify with the word "poacher," in this day and age, so . . . keep on doing what you're doing if it's sustainable and fair play, but be careful about describing yourself as a poacher.

Also, try bow hunting if that isn't already your chosen method. Gratifying, silent, and a little more natural.


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## oldmanLee (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks for putting me in the first catigory!Although I would put my sense of rebellion more with William Tell than with R.H.(never could quite get into the mindset,seemed pretty blindly altruistic without much substance).
Yes,bow,occasionally spear,and nothing that would cause regret(i.e. exotics,penned,"farmed" game,females in breeding /birthing season,trophy).Only that which sustains life,and a enormous gratitude for the life taken.
I use the word poacher by choice.Under the basic of most states laws,unless you can pay the fee,you may not preform acts that allowed human survival on the most basic of hunter/gatherer levels.Someone who does these things is breaking the law,where its a deer out of season,a rabbit bagged in a feild of broomstraw,pigeons and squirrels taken in an urban environment,fish without a licence,etc.There have been many times that this act has sustaianed myself and others,and I feel that an understanding of it and the philosopy that should guide a "ethical poacher" might be an interesting debate.
All in all,yarn and glue;an interesting topic.And thanks for being willing to address it!


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## yarn and glue (Jan 6, 2010)

In my interest to see if anything had been written about ethical poaching, I googled the phrase -- and one of the first results is entitled "Ethical Hunting Versus Poaching."



> A poacher has no vested interest, no passion for the outdoors, no vision of sustainable or correct utilization of natural resources and no will to protect the environment for the next generation.



Talk about yer people in glass houses!


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## yarn and glue (Jan 6, 2010)

It is worth noting, however, that the author of that article is from South Africa, where sustainability hunting is still practiced among tribes and poaching is a very different issue than it is here.


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## oldmanLee (Jan 7, 2010)

Excellent article,and a somewhat great example of the pot calling the kettle black.While the author has no trouble running a guided safari company,which pretty much assures a kill;he has problems with the idea of primative hunting.
While I can and do wholeheatedly support the idea of ecotourists(they do provide income to some of the most impoverished areas of the world),i found his attitude to be a bit on the "great white hunter" school.In his veiw,the only way to take an animal is with a rifle,which denies the intimacy of the act between hunter and hunted.
A book that I might suggest is one that I intially read around 1970(!!!!!!),"A Sporting Chance",by Daniel P. Mannix.It has influence a great deal of my thoughts on the subject.


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## wokofshame (Jan 7, 2010)

i dunno, growing up in vermont as a veggie for a couple years there i always really disliked people who bait deer and its definitely unsporting, baiting bears is even worse,
however if you're hunting for food you're not in it to make it as hard as possible, you're there to make it as easy as possible. so i don't neccesarily think jacklighting is wrong as long as you're doing it for food. what sucks is people who waste the carcass and just grab the antlers or whatever. 
and generally a lot of young kids out there hunting who have macho attitudes suck. it kinda drove me crazy in vt.


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## bryanpaul (Jan 2, 2011)

my buddy drive-by shot a deer with a crossbow out of his car...brought it home and we strung it up and were just kinda starin at it wonderin where to start..his girlfreind steps in and butchered the whole thing by herself, thats a real woman right there...but yeah, fed us all winter


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## Dmac (Jan 2, 2011)

i have hunted without a licence, at the acherage i work at. rabbits, squirles, quail, pheasant and turkey. could have had a deer any day, but i hunt them with a bow and did not want to risk it running. i see deer there every morning and evening. i eat what i hunt and only get what i need.

i still get a licence for duck, geese, and deer also. here in nebraska the money from hunting and fishing liciences goes directly to the park service to help pay for the upkeep to the state parks and wildlife areas. so i don't mind paying since i spend a lot of time at the parks, camping and what-not. plus the state sells a rear long pass to the state parks for only 15$. without it it is about 3-5$ per day at the park enterance.


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## stonedwonderer (Mar 1, 2011)

Growing up in the backwoods of oregon we used to poach two to three deer a year to feed my family most here prob wont agree with the method but we used a spotlight at night and a 22 to the dome you want to use a higher caliber rifle if your not 100 percent sure you can make the shot and aim right behind the front shoulder for a heart shot. hitting them in the neck will cause them to run and they can go a long distance before they die from that wound. also i wouldnt try a head shot without spotlighting them deer can be quick to move in daylight. honestly i see nothing wrong with this if your going to eat the animal. and as far as quality the younger the animal the better but i wouldnt shoot a spike or a doe, a spike prob isnt old enough to have bred yet and does are the breeders even if you take the buck that would have mated with that doe another buck will do the job for him. so shoot a forked horn or better and a 30-30 or a 30-06 is plenty big enough to take down a deer at a hundred yards a 22 i wouldn't take the shot any farther 20 yards and thats a 22 long rifle


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## Dead horse (Sep 4, 2011)

Good thread! Ya if its for food then you gotta do what you gotta do its common sense I haven't done much of this myself but doing the deed and then taking what i could carry right then and there even at the cost of bringing down a large moose (Can ya tell I'm from Canada) and leaving hundreds of pounds of meat behind it not a waste when you look it in in terms of nature its efficiency to go though its processes. That meats gonna get eaten by something just like we've been known as humans to steal and or scavenge from kills the same rules apply


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## trash diver (Sep 4, 2011)

Meat has more food value per gram than plant food.


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## Beegod Santana (Sep 4, 2011)

If you're gonna be eating the meat and making every effort to use every part of the animal, I say fine. If you're starving out in the woods, self preservation is the highest law. If you're just going out to bag a deer out of season cause you didn't get around to it when you had your chance, I think you're a dick.

Same goes for survival education. Teach your kids to hunt when its in season.


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## acrata4ever (Sep 4, 2011)

vultures does anyone hunt them?


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## Albert Johnson (Nov 19, 2011)

I have poached, but never used a firearm. I have caught fish (trout) out of season or used traps/snares for other animals. Anything caught is eaten, I detest killing in waste. Deer are very easy to snare as are rabbits. 110 conibear traps catch squirrel or rabbits, where a 220 conibear will take racoon or groundhogs. While I have used suppressors (.22) I perfer traps for their slience and the fact you can reuse them.


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## Earth (Nov 19, 2011)

My neighbor hunts, uses a bow - and only lets the arrow fly if he knows it's going to be a direct hit.
Otherwise, he simply watches and takes in the view.

I always know when he's had a good day, because the blood runs down the road past my place, and me dogo goes wild.

He's a great man who truly understands nature / the ecology more than most (and this is coming from a militant vegetarian/ Defender of ATWA) and we often have conversations about the fragile state of our planet while enjoying some Lord Calvert...

As for traps,
I'm waiting for some asshole who's trapping for furs to snag my dogo.

Believe me,
I'm always on the lookout for those damn leg traps,
as we hike all the time out here.

And if God forbid that day should ever come,
I'll be looking to chop somebody's head off.............


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## TheUndeadPhoenix (Nov 19, 2011)

I am a very spiritual person, so this is how I see it:
If you are trying to survive, yes, kill something. If you're going to kill it and mount it, I want to kill and mount you. Even if you're just gonna make sausages or freeze the stuff. If you mount the head after eating it, ok fine. But try to use the hide for something too, whether its for display or clothing. Ancient man would wear the skin, eat the brains, eat the eyes, eat the bone marrow, etc etc etc. They also fashioned weapons out of bones (arrow heads) and used the antlers for ritual head gear.

Most people nowadays just fuckin kill things to kill them though. That's wrong. You can actually get away with "poaching" if you're caught and tell them you are trying to survive and actually have an encampment or something you can show them to show you're trying to survive. But 9 times out of 10, they won't really care, as long as its not endangered.


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## TheUndeadPhoenix (Nov 19, 2011)

bryanpaul said:


> my buddy drive-by shot a deer with a crossbow out of his car...brought it home and we strung it up and were just kinda starin at it wonderin where to start..his girlfreind steps in and butchered the whole thing by herself, thats a real woman right there...but yeah, fed us all winter


^this. All of it.


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## TheUndeadPhoenix (Nov 19, 2011)

Earth said:


> As for traps,
> I'm waiting for some asshole who's trapping for furs to snag my dogo.



I trap. But its not for foxes or wolves. Its for rabbits. Rabbits, not hares. If a dog gets caught in the tiny little thing, the worse that will happen is he'll either get his snout caught in it, or if its a small dog, a cut on its nose.


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## DisgustinDustin (Nov 20, 2011)

I hunt.. Deer and hog only pretty much. I am not a trophy hunter. I hunt for meat. I will take does and bucks alike. Original poster is spot on about having contempt for those who eat the flesh but can't do the deed. Matter of fact, I hunted all day yesterday with no luck and I'm going this evening..

So. Yes, I have taken the kings deer..
Ah, just remembered the thread spoke of poaching.. Km not a poacher  hide and watch only!!


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## BobbinGoblin (Dec 2, 2011)

trash diver said:


> Meat has more food value per gram than plant food.


There is only a 10% transfer of energy from the sun to the plant, 10% from the plant to the herbivore, 10% from the herbivore to you.
In the end, it takes less energy and resources to eat more plants. Unless we're talking scavenging, here.

Regardless, I love venison. Therefore, I am in the process of honing my bow skills, so that I may taste the bloody fruits of the forest by my own hand 

I agree with oldmanLee that it is ridiculous to eat meat, but not do the killing yourself (or know who's doing it). And of course I agree with utilizing the WHOLE animal. These are kind of "duh" points to me..


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