# Crass turned capitalist sell-out fuckheads



## ipoPua

http://www.anarcho-punk.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=61407

serious fucking bummer, cunts

[edit by matt derrick: added the whole article inline for people to read]

*Crass: Capitalist traitors using copyright laws against Anarcho-Punk.Net - 3000 albums deleted because of these greedy selfish sellout bastards*



by *anarcho-punk.net* on 18/07/2012, 20:43
2 days ago, Mediafire advised Anarcho-Punk.net that a complaint concerning a copyright law was filed against Anarcho-Punk.net at Mediafire related to 7 albums by Crass. We're talking about albums released 30 years ago and not the remastered stuff.







In the result of this, Mediafire deleted all CRASS albums but they have also banned multiple accounts of Anarcho-Punk.net and Pirate-Punk.net. In total, over 3000 albums are now deleted because of their greed.

The following albums are concerned by Crass complaint :
Crass - 1978 - Reality Asylum (7'')
Crass - 1978 - The Feeding Of The 5,000 (Lp)
Crass - 1984 - You're Already Dead
Crass - 1979 - Stations Of The Crass (Lp)
Crass - 1980 - Nagasaki Nightmare (7'')
Crass - 1979 - Peel Session (7'')
Crass - 1981 - Penis Envy (Lp)






_*Update : during the last hours this article have been shared a lot of time, including on Crass' and Southern Records' official Facebook pages. They deleted all posts and banned everyone who shared the link. Obviously, they don't want their fans to know that crass is a pro-copyright band, they prefer to lie and pretend to be fighting against capitalism. Crass, who used to be a band against censorship and fighting for freedom of speech, have betrayed their ideas again and they are now censoring everyone who dare to critise them.*_


*- A capitalist law*

Crass are using a capitalist law named Digital Millenium Copyright Act to close our Mediafire account. The anti-capitalist movement has been fighting against this law since its creation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Mi ... yright_Act

There is no more difference between the opportunistic methods of Crass and music industry's big labels like EMI, Sony or Universal.


*- Over 3000 albums deleted because of Crass*

After the copyright complaint by Crass, over 2000 albums are now deleted from Anarcho-Punk.net, a website built by anarcho-punks and where it's clearly written everywhere that bands can just contact us at any time to ask us to remove their albums. On top of all, 1000 other albums of french punk bands (who are also agreeing with file sharing) from Pirate-Punk.net were deleted because they were on the same Mediafire accounts.


*- The world's biggest anarcho-punk music database destroyed because of Crass*

Today, because of the band who is bragging about being the precursor of anarcho-punk, almost all albums of the world's biggest database of anarcho-punk music is destroyed. That's over 2000 albums from bands who were not against file sharing which are now offline because of the traitors from CRASS who have decided to use to their advantage the capitalist system they were fighting against.

During the 4 years anarcho-punk.net has been online, hundreds of bands showed their support to our project and to file sharing - we could write a very big list and that would include a lot of cult bands from thecanarcho-punk scene and beyond.
But Crass decided to impose their opinion against file sharing to the majority of bands who supported it. Hundreds of bands just lost their right to be shared for free because of only one band who was against it.


*- Crass, a capitalist band who betrays what it always stood for*

Yes, I'm really talking about Crass, this anarcho-hypocritical band who's bragged about giving away albums for free in their biography during the '80's. They even produced a couple of albums specifically to give them away, including 20,000 free copies of the album "Sheep Farming". They've also bragged about never touching a single dollar of profit in the whole history of their band and always selling albums at the cost of production. If internet and file sharing existed in 1980, Crass would have supported it and they would have given their albums away for free through file sharing.

Is that their definition of "fighting against capitalism" ? These people pretended to want an anarchist society but they can't even take a friendly agreement between anarchists without using capitalist laws and system. They pretend to fight for anarchism but they can't even act the same way we would in an anarchist society.

Crass is now officially and undeniably a capitalist band who betrayed all of their ideals. They're now using capitalism to defend their own interests : personal profits, whatever is the price to pay, even if other bands should be penalized by their actions and even if it implies licking the asses of the bourgeoisie. We notice the same logic from the big capitalist companies that don't care about others in their ultimate quest for maximum profits.


*- Anarcho-Punk.Net, a website respecting artists where they can easily contact us to remove their albums*

Crass could have simply contacted Anarcho-Punk.Net and asked us to remove their albums. A friendly agreement could easily have been made and their albums would have been removed in less than 24 hours. It's clearly written on our website that Anarcho-Punk.Net will remove any album if the band or the label asks - the moderators have done this many times during the past. Instead of doing that, CRASS preferred to use the CAPITALIST SYSTEM and it's LAWS against anarchists who are supposed to be their comrades.

In 4 years of existence, it is the first time that a band files a complaint against us at Mediafire, without even taking the time to contact us. They prefer to make an agreement with capitalists rather than seeking an agreement with anarchists. It's very ironic that the only band to ever use copyrights against us is the band who's selling the most albums among all those present on our website.


*- A personal revenge against a website who dared to critisize Crass*

The members of Anarcho-Punk.Net strongly critisized the change in Crass' attitude during the past few years. The criticism turned around the attitude of Steve Ignorant that had been doing an over-priced tour where he made tens of thousands of dollars in profits. $25 per ticket, 2000 tickets sold per show, and around 20 shows. Do the math. And that's not even including thousands more made off albums/merch sold. Members of the forum also critisized the price that Crass are selling their remastered albums for.

We, at Anarcho-Punk Collective, think that it's understandable that some members are perplexed to see a band making so much money when they built their reputation on being a non-profit band. We also think it's understandable to question the price of a remastered album multiple times more expensive than the original used to be - specially when this band used to print "do not pay more than 3$" on their albums. On top of all, we feel that the other 2000 downloadable albums shouldn't have to pay the price for Crass' decision to fight file sharing. We also feel that because members of this forum critisized Crass, it isn't a valid reason to act the way they did and not even try to contact us to sincerely ask us to remove their albums.

During the discussion with Crass (see below) our interlocutor insisted on the fact that members of Anarcho-Punk.Net forum "hates Crass anyway". All this makes us believe that they filed a copyright complaint against us because they had something against Anarcho-Punk.Net and wanted to take revenge because we dared to critisize their attitude - a strongly capitalist attitude, let's admit it.

After we told Crass we were from Anarcho-Punk.Net during our discussion, they became somewhat antagonistic and then suddenly stopped answering us.

That might explain why Crass acted like that against Anarcho-Punk.Net but doesn't do anything about the MILLIONS of other websites that are sharing their albums, a lot of them even making money from the music they share.


*- Crass pretend to be against copyrights laws*

If you visit Crass' official Facebook page, you will find out that 50% of the things the band "likes" on Facebook are anti-copyrights groups. For example, they have been strongly standing against SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) but on the other hand they told us that they believe an author should have absolute control over his work, which is exactly what SOPA aims to do. Actually, without laws like SOPA it wouldn't be possible for Crass to request their albums to be removed and they're claiming they should have the right to do it. But this right couldn't be possible without laws like SOPA, so it's pretty hypocrite for them to pretend to be fighting against it.


*- Discussion with Crass on Facebook*

I contacted the official Crass account on Facebook and I waited for their answer before posting this article. Here's their answer where they clearly admit having filed a complaint with Mediafire while supporting that artists should control their copyrights. They obviously have an huge grudge against Anarcho-Punk.Net because the community dared to strongly critisize their capitalist methods and the thousands of dollars of profit they are making from anarchism. Revolution for money, like they said.















*- Lies*

Crass defend themselves with numerous lies, beginning by pretending that they have not been able to contact Anarcho-Punk.Net directly. Then they end up contradicting themselves while pretending to have contacted us via Southern Records. This is totally false, neither the band or the label contacted us a single time. If they did, we would have just deleted all of their albums like we have always done with similar cases in the past. We don't like what they have became and we would have agreed to remove their albums if they asked us, since it could only prove that they have become greedy.

Crass also claim to be selling albums at production cost (a big lie when we see the price they are selling their new remastered albums). Do they seriously think people are stupid enough to believe that even 30 years after the publishing date of their albums they still have not sold enough albums to pay back their production cost during the '80's, which would justify their opposition to file sharing of albums released around 1980 ???

They pretend that it's not their fault and Mediafire doesn't delete an account just because of a single complaint. Well, it's not a single complaint but SEVEN different complaints about SEVEN different Crass albums. I repeat it again : Crass is the ONLY BAND to EVER file a complaint against us in 4 years so THEY and ONLY THEY are responsible for the closing of our account and the removal of over 3000 anarcho-punk albums.


*Consequences for Anarcho-Punk.Net*

We appealed our case on mediafire and they confirmed to us that our account will remain locked. Now we must move to a new kind of system that will be based on a torrent tracker or a FTP system. Either way, none of the albums will ever get deleted but it will cost us an around $200 for a new server, additionally to what we are already paying. We're not Crass, we're not full of money so we will need to find new ways of raising money since we can't just sell a bunch of overpriced remastered albums and sue people sharing them. That's the price to pay to stay true and authentic to what we believe in, but we're willing to pay the price. Unlike Crass, the ideals we believe in and what we stand for is worth way more than thousands of dollars.

Want to help us ? Send a donation or buy a t-shirt from http://english.ni-dieu-ni-maitre.com


*- Spread the word about it*

To all of you, like me, that had huge respect for what Crass were, what they stood for, what they were fighting against... Here's what our "anarcho-punk heroes" have become, here's how low they have sunk, willing to do anything to make more money - exactly what they have always pretended to be the antithesis of. A band that used to make no profit at all has now become a band who's trying to make the maximum possible profit. If that's not your definition of anarchism then take a stand against it and let's show them that's not what anarcho-punk is all about.

This article must be spread widely. Copy it in your blogs, post it on your facebook page, show it to your friends. We must spread the word about what Crass has become. This band doesn't have anything to do with anarchism anymore and it must stop being considered as an icon of the anarcho-punk scene but instead be considered as what they really are : traitors, impostors, capitalists and SELLOUTS. 

Let's give them the reputation they deserve.


^^ Can you believe that's what they were fighting against 34 years ago ?


*Update : Crass also using copyright laws against Youtube users*

Other users reported that Crass are sending DMCA complaints to take down Crass audio and videos from Youtube :


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## bryanpaul

whoever is responding for crass does make a good point


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## Kim Chee

Artists have to eat too. 
...and if they play music that is considered in demand (read that as music that you want) I bet they don't plan on getting their next meal out of the dumpster. So, if you disagree with their distribution policy yet enjoy their music, I guess you're torn? 

There is a complete shitload of great music that is FREE on the Internet. FREE as in no money needed to download, FREE as in nobody getting pissed because you downloaded it. The hard part for you is sifting through all the stuff that your ears don't appreciate. 

Here's a thread that has plenty of links to tunes:
http://squattheplanet.com/threads/download-almost-any-artist-album.7110/#post-107150 

And if I am missing the point. 
I'll never be punk.


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## ipoPua

they have a good point about asking permission before sharing it, i grant that, but they completely ignore the fact that their one complaint was treated as 7 separate ones by mediafire and completely fucked over a tremendous amount of artists that just wanted to be heard and fans that just wanted to hear. i dont download anything, i just think this is bullshit. and the argument 'artists have to eat too' is just as much bullshit, i make music and i don't get fed by it, plenty of people work normal jobs while they make music and if youre going to take it for granted that doing something you love ought to feed you then you're just a lazy spoiled asshole who doesn't deserve to be fed by your music anyway. i'm quite sure crass isn't starving in the gutter, even without getting real jobs they could easily just play another few shows, sell some shit, theyre a big enough band that they wouldnt have any trouble coming up with dinner. 'artists have to eat too', then do what everyone else is forced to do and pump some gas or wash some dishes, don't make it impossible for the people who look up to and even love you to enjoy your music and the music of a million other bands just because you're making a bit less profit than before. that's scummy as fuck.


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## ped

"Those dumb punk kids will buy anything"


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## Kim Chee

ipoPua said:


> ...and the argument 'artists have to eat too' is just as much bullshit, i make music and i don't get fed by it, plenty of people work normal jobs while they make music and if youre going to take it for granted that doing something you love ought to feed you then you're just a lazy spoiled asshole who doesn't deserve to be fed by your music anyway. i'm quite sure crass isn't starving in the gutter, even without getting real jobs they could easily just play another few shows, sell some shit, theyre a big enough band that they wouldnt have any trouble coming up with dinner. 'artists have to eat too', then do what everyone else is forced to do and pump some gas or wash some dishes, don't make it impossible for the people who look up to and even love you to enjoy your music and the music of a million other bands just because you're making a bit less profit than before. that's scummy as fuck.


 
Did I strike a nerve? It is bullshit that "artists have to eat too". It also happens to be true. The "mom and pop" musicians often have an income that has nothing to do with music that keeps them fed and happy. The "professionals" like Crass have risen above that level and often don't need an income outside of what their music makes or has made in order to survive. They have spent their years hungry and jamming in a basement. They are big-time and expect to be paid now. As far as professional musicians are concerned, you are one of the masses, bow down and pay them. Did they earn that money? Here's your chance to either support them by buying their music/merch or choose to not support them. Either way, their music appeals to hoards of people who will happily support them. Buy some music or a t-shirt from one of those barely recognized bands that isn't well known and you'll be making a difference in their lives. But, what are you going to do when your favorite small-time band hits it big and comes to town and concert tix are $300?

As for me, I stopped paying for music. There's much out there to be had for free if you're willing to look for it.


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## ipoPua

mmmmmmmichael said:


> Did I strike a nerve? It is bullshit that "artists have to eat too". It also happens to be true. The "mom and pop" musicians often have an income that has nothing to do with music that keeps them fed and happy. The "professionals" like Crass have risen above that level and often don't need an income outside of what their music makes or has made in order to survive. They have spent their years hungry and jamming in a basement. They are big-time and expect to be paid now. As far as professional musicians are concerned, you are one of the masses, bow down and pay them. Did they earn that money? Here's your chance to either support them by buying their music/merch or choose to not support them. Either way, their music appeals to hoards of people who will happily support them. Buy some music or a t-shirt from one of those barely recognized bands that isn't well known and you'll be making a difference in their lives. But, what are you going to do when your favorite small-time band hits it big and comes to town and concert tix are $300?
> 
> As for me, I stopped paying for music. There's much out there to be had for free if you're willing to look for it.


'risen above that level' my cumstains. you don't 'rise above' having to earn your meals. hungry and jamming in a basement is a hella happier life than hungry and slaving away in a factory for decade on decade, its not much to ask that they at the very least get out there and tour to feed themselves. these albums are 30 years old, they've been paid for them. do something new if you want people to pay you more. you made my point tremendously, their music appeals to hordes* of people who gladly support them, so why do they have to fuck over the fans who cant afford it and all those smalltime bands that're just looking to get their music out there? thats crap and you know it. and no band i'd support would ever charge that much for a show, or anywhere near it. and if they did, the answer is simple, i wouldnt go. and i would start downloading and sharing all their shit just to spite them for being such greedy twigpricks. you say they dont need an income outside of their music. if thats the case then lucky them, if it isnt, then do some fucking work, dont fuck over innocent people who're just trying to enjoy some music or get their own music heard.

if they were true artists they wouldn't be in it for the money. they'd be in it for the music, and they wouldn't be shitting all over the hundreds of other bands that're in it for the same.


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## Matt Derrick

ipoPua said:


> they have a good point about asking permission before sharing it, i grant that, but they completely ignore the fact that their one complaint was treated as 7 separate ones by mediafire and completely fucked over a tremendous amount of artists that just wanted to be heard and fans that just wanted to hear. i dont download anything, i just think this is bullshit. and the argument 'artists have to eat too' is just as much bullshit, i make music and i don't get fed by it, plenty of people work normal jobs while they make music and if youre going to take it for granted that doing something you love ought to feed you then you're just a lazy spoiled asshole who doesn't deserve to be fed by your music anyway. i'm quite sure crass isn't starving in the gutter, even without getting real jobs they could easily just play another few shows, sell some shit, theyre a big enough band that they wouldnt have any trouble coming up with dinner. 'artists have to eat too', then do what everyone else is forced to do and pump some gas or wash some dishes, don't make it impossible for the people who look up to and even love you to enjoy your music and the music of a million other bands just because you're making a bit less profit than before. that's scummy as fuck.


 
i disagree, i think crass is making a valid point. i don't think it's fair what media fire did, but that's more their fault than it is crass'....
....
....
.....
actually, i just read the full article from the link on the OP, and you know what? fuck crass. godammit that makes me so mad, i supported steve's tour and saw him play in austin, and it was an awesome experience. i know it's rough getting older and having to work a shit job, but this is just the wrong way to go about it. i think everyone should read the article on anarcho-punk.net, since they make the argument much better than crass ever could.


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## Matt Derrick

i think one of the big problems here is that crass is getting pretty old now, and im sorry, but i just don't think older folks have the same grasp of technology (file sharing) and how it compares to giving away your album like they did in the 80's and the tape trading underground of that same era. it's what made them famous.

i know it sucks when people are bootlegging your shirts and famous celebrities are wearing them having no idea what the symbol means, just that it "looks cool" (this happens in the crass documentary) but to turn around and start attacking people on youtube and mediafire is acting just as ass backwards and dinosaur-ish as major capitalist record companies.

i personally am going to be taking down my youtube video of the crass concert before i get a warning issued.


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## ipoPua

im so fucking disappointed. i used to worship these guys and now they've done a complete 180


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## Matt Derrick

ipoPua said:


> im so fucking disappointed. i used to worship these guys and now they've done a complete 180


 
i know, me too... why does everyone have to fucking sell out like this? is it a part of getting old? i don't fucking understand it.


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## keg

never really liked crass music.reading there booklets with words to sons and such was better.but everyone is full of shit.they say one thing and do another.like subhumans got a song about no shirts...Dystopia seem the most stand up when it comes to their ideas.people want to make new shirts and stuff and they say know.even the people are friends and not really trying to make money.but the guy from Metal Skull takes the cake.he says kill yourself when you do all you want to do.and he did.but i have mety the guys from crass(they own land in Hawaii and come here sometimes) and they share their drugs and feed the homeless and when they try to hit on guys and the guy says no they are respectful,etc


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## tobepxt

*"This page is maintained by Southern on behalf of the former members of the band, who do not currently contribute directly to the page's content, other than by giving us information and guidance. Thanks!" so Southern Records is the bastard here...*

*crass was a movement. trying to make money off of it is stupid and hypocritical. stopping people from sharing the messages in the songs is fucking stupid. *


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## Rotten Falafel

what about the people that dont find the album to buy or they cant afford buying the album?fucking capitalist bastards.music is art and art should be for free.


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## ped

Rotten Falafel said:


> what about the people that dont find the album to buy or they cant afford buying the album?fucking capitalist bastards.music is art and art should be for free.


 

Why?


They made art instead of growing food. You grew food instead of making art. You two can trade your efforts if you wish. If the artist doesn't trade he doesn't eat so you have the upper hand.

You want a feast of consumption without giving artists anything in return. And then they're the greedy bastards?


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## ipoPua

ped said:


> Why?
> 
> 
> They made art instead of growing food. You grew food instead of making art. You two can trade your efforts if you wish.
> 
> You want a feast of consumption without giving artists anything in return. And then they're the greedy bastards?


i dont think art has to be free, i just know for a fact that crass and their label certainly dont have to worry about feeding themselves, and shutting down a completely cooperative website between bands who wanna share their music and fans who wanna hear it, just to have a little more drugmoney, is fucked up and goes completely against everything crass has always, ostensibly at least, been about. it's disgusting.


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## ped

ipoPua said:


> i dont think art has to be free, i just know for a fact that crass and their label certainly dont have to worry about feeding themselves, and shutting down a completely cooperative website between bands who wanna share their music and fans who wanna hear it, just to have a little more drugmoney, is fucked up and goes completely against everything crass has always, ostensibly at least, been about. it's disgusting.


 

It's disillusionment. Maybe it says something much more profound about the world than it seems....


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## ipoPua

that everyone has the potential to become a hypocritical moneygrubbing shitstain?


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## ped

ipoPua said:


> that everyone has the potential to become a hypocritical moneygrubbing shitstain?


 

That moral judgements are the foundations of governments. And not just pragmatic, situational ethics. But an absolutist and fascist slave morality. That greed is wrong not merely in case where it has negative consequences, but always wrong even if benign not matter what.

In essence you are the glarring hypocrite for applying a protestant, fundementalist morality to an artist whos primary thesis is anarchism in which they are exemplifying. Who made you the authority of right and wrong?

So you either renounce anarchism in which you would be completely illogical in associating with the band itself and thus pointless in caring about the matter at all, or renounce your demands for conformity.

Que the vapid banality of punk rock politics.


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## Raging Bird

Crass isn't having any trouble eating. I've got to work to eat and I don't get paid for work I did 30 years ago. Recorded music only exists because of capitalism, as does the market that buys it. Making money off the shit at all is hypocritical. I'm not an anarchist and that's how it looks from the outside.


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## Kim Chee

I didn't mean for people to take it literally when I say "artists have to eat too". Yes, they can get on foodstamps, fly cardboard and beg as well to get that food. They also are going to want a place to live, a nice car, boob job for the old lady and a vacation. Also, even if the music is old, they should be able to sell it. Royalties, yes! I wonder how much awesome music is out there that you will never hear because it sits in somebody's private collection and somebody out there is saying, "fuck the fans" and is all pissed off at how their art is being distributed their seeing a dime. Sure, I think an artist as well as a doctor, politician and holy men should be the financially poorest people on the planet, motivated not by cash but by the sheer joy of the impact they can have on their fellow man. Unfortunately, I don't run shit here.


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## ipoPua

ped said:


> That moral judgements are the foundations of governments. And not just pragmatic, situational ethics. But an absolutist and fascist slave morality. That greed is wrong not merely in case where it has negative consequences, but always wrong even if benign not matter what.
> 
> In essence you are the glarring hypocrite for applying a protestant, fundementalist morality to an artist whos primary thesis is anarchism in which they are exemplifying. Who made you the authority of right and wrong?
> 
> So you either renounce anarchism in which you would be completely illogical in associating with the band itself and thus pointless in caring about the matter at all, or renounce your demands for conformity.
> 
> Que the vapid banality of punk rock politics.


firstly, this is not a case of benign greed, this is case of one small group of individuals completely destroying an ideal, happy, established exchange between fans and artists who don't have a problem with free distribution of their music. that is not benign. secondly, there's a difference between anarchy as a sociopolitical system based in self-governance and freedom from the destructive consequences of industry, and anarchy as a nihilistic concept of aimless chaos. both have merit, the first is an ideal and the second is a fact, but just because we all have the option of being scumfucks within the fundamental self-devastation of life doesnt mean we can expect not to be held to the moral standards of people who understand the idea of the golden rule, and minding your own business when it comes to the harmless actions of others that have no real impact on your own life. anyone observing this example of selfcontradiction and hypocrisy has the right to spout venom at the name of crass, because it goes against everything theyve always claimed to stand for, and everything true punk is about in general. thirdly, i am not an anarchist and never claimed as much, i'm a fourier communist and i dont have to agree with an individual's stated morals to have an issue with them going completely against said morals in their actions. hypocrisy is a wrong that transcends belief. and i'm not demanding conformity, if they wanna take down their music from the site they have every right to do so, what they do not have the right to do is dismantle a strong system of free trade from bands who are more interested in having their music heard and positively impacting lives than lining their pockets with benjamin and co. THAT is fascism my friend, tearing down a society(and society this site was) because you see it as a threat to your personal interests. THAT is demanding conformity, THAT is hypocrisy, THAT is the foundation of amoral governance. calling them dicks for fucking with something completely harmless and -actually- benign, is not.



and mmmichael, they still do sell their music. as i've said several times by this point, they absolutely had the right to demand their music be taken down. getting the whole site shut down is where i have a problem. also see what thirtydollar said, they recorded some shit for fun three decades ago, its pretty pretentious to think they ought to be able to live highclass off something they did so long ago, that a billion other people have done without demanding such egregious compensation for it. but still, if they wanna be stuckup pennypinching twats they have the right. its fucking with the system of free share by other groups that dont need the dollar where they go beyond that right and earn the title of self-centered shitbags.

p.s. mad respect, just cos we disagree doesnt mean i have a problem with either of you. snoogans


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## ped

> firstly, this is not a case of benign greed, this is case of one small group of individuals completely destroying an ideal, happy, established exchange between fans and artists who don't have a problem with free distribution of their music.


 
So you're cool with greed in some instances? Could you give an example?




> doesnt mean we can expect not to be held to the moral standards


 
Whos moral standards and why?



> and minding your own business when it comes to the harmless actions of others that have no real impact on your own life.


 
Why?




> true punk is about in general.


 
True punk? Circle A? Selling impressionable teens culture?



> thirdly, i am not an anarchist and never claimed as much


 
That is this bands prima facie. Why bother with them in the first place then?




> i'm a fourier communist and i dont have to agree with an individual's stated morals to have an issue with them going completely against said morals in their actions.


 
You're moral expectancy is consistancy and rational purity. Theirs is not. 



> what they do not have the right to do is dismantle a strong system of free trade


 
What free trade? You're taking everything and giving nothing.




> from bands who are more interested in having their music heard and positively impacting lives than lining their pockets with benjamin and co.


 
They're not living up to your standards. You don't live up to Muslim standards. That's cool but why be mad about it?



> THAT is fascism my friend, tearing down a society(and society this site was) because you see it as a threat to your personal interests. THAT is demanding conformity, THAT is hypocrisy, THAT is the foundation of amoral governance. calling them dicks for fucking with something completely harmless and -actually- benign, is not.


 
And yet they were pioneers in molding and selling punk identity.


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## ipoPua

did you read anything i said or are you just scanning for little snippets, halfsentences that you can misrepresent and ignore the actual meaning behind? cos it's clearly the latter. everything you asked and said in that last post was either already answered, or a complete misinterpretation of the bits you quoted from me. im cool with greed where it doesnt hurt anyone. if someone wants to build up their dragons lair by making a bunch of crap and selling it at no harm to anybody else, i couldnt give a shit. like i already said a million times and i hate repeating myself, the infringement of rights is in shutting down the site and blocking the trade between less materialistic bands and their fans. who's moral standards was answered in the end of the sentence you cut in half. crass is not practicing self-governance, they're practicing fascist governance in shitting all over the trade of others. like i already said, im not talking about them taking down their music, can you read a sentence of more than 5 words or what? im talking about them getting the site shut down. and the free trade of the other bands. the exchange is this-the band gives the music, the fans give the support in going to shows, spreading the word, etc. and when i say true punk i mean being more interested in freedom and self-expression than in mindless profit. read a full fucking sentence next time, you completely misread almost everything you quoted.


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## ped

ipoPua said:


> did you read anything i said or are you just scanning for little snippets, halfsentences that you can misrepresent and ignore the actual meaning behind? cos it's clearly the latter. everything you asked and said in that last post was either already answered, or a complete misinterpretation of the bits you quoted from me. im cool with greed where it doesnt hurt anyone. if someone wants to build up their dragons lair by making a bunch of crap and selling it at no harm to anybody else, i couldnt give a shit. like i already said a million times and i hate repeating myself, the infringement of rights is in shutting down the site and blocking the trade between less materialistic bands and their fans. who's moral standards was answered in the end of the sentence you cut in half. crass is not practicing self-governance, they're practicing fascist governance in shitting all over the trade of others. like i already said, im not talking about them taking down their music, can you read a sentence of more than 5 words or what? im talking about them getting the site shut down. and the free trade of the other bands. the exchange is this-the band gives the music, the fans give the support in going to shows, spreading the word, etc. and when i say true punk i mean being more interested in freedom and self-expression than in mindless profit. read a full fucking sentence next time, you completely misread almost everything you quoted.


 

You gotta expect that with anarchists. That's why most people want goverment....to prevent that kind of thing.

Makes you rethink those cool punk patches doesn't it!


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## ipoPua

how many times you gonna edit your post, guy? your argument is empty. youre more focused on ostensibly witty little quips about patches i dont wear than responding to anything i've actually said.

edit- and the reason im mad about it, as ive said far too many times by now, is because theyre fucking with other peoples lives by shutting down this site. blather all you want about the relativity of morality, its a pretty little notion but the fact remains that screwing other people over for personal gain is just plain douching. im talking reality, not theoretical ideas of 'noone gets to say whats right and wrong'. youre right, i cant force my opinion on anyone that theyre assholes for fucking over all those other bands, but i -can- express it and anyone with any sense of idealism can agree.


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## ped

Yes sir massa I beez good fer ya, don't yell at me!




> edit- and the reason im mad about it, as ive said far too many times by now, is because theyre fucking with other peoples lives by shutting down this site.


 
Probably because they see themselves as the victims fighting against the assholes.


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## ipoPua

ped said:


> Yes sir massa I beez good fer ya, don't yell at me!


clever. obviously i'm such a fascist for suggesting that crass mind their own business and leave the rest of the site alone


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## ped

Thanks. I hear that chic from Nausea is a big republican now too.


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## graven

Crass _was_ a movement. It's over.

For them to be acting like this just proves that.


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## Matt Derrick

@ipopua & @ped, please keep the conversation civil and refrain from being so combative. it's just a discussion


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## ped

He started it


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## Rotten Falafel

ped said:


> Why?
> 
> 
> They made art instead of growing food. You grew food instead of making art. You two can trade your efforts if you wish. If the artist doesn't trade he doesn't eat so you have the upper hand.
> 
> You want a feast of consumption without giving artists anything in return. And then they're the greedy bastards?


 you can always make a trade or pay free price for something that you want. i think this will be the best from my point of view. 
some people cant afford buying the records or in the places they are living is not possibile to find them and ordering them from the internet it is not an option also if you dont have a house and a bank account. 
keep bussines out of punk.if u want to make bussines play something else.


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## ped

Rotten Falafel said:


> keep bussines out of punk.if u want to make bussines play something else.


 Does punk really need more rules and regulations though?

Do _they_ owe us a living? ......Punk rock consumers that is...lol. Maybe they've found ghetto life ain't so bad in their old age?!


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## kickthatshit

We act as if it's normal to be paid for your recorded music, but in fact, it's a tiny blip of history, beginning, and ending in the 20th century. Before that, musicians had to go out and perform, and today, the same is true - plus other options such as selling merch, etc. I have no pity for 'artists' who want to sit around and collect royalty checks. Get a job or learn to live without one; you're not special because you make art.


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## bIackswan

Matt Derrick said:


> @ipopua & @ped, please keep the conversation civil and refrain from being so combative. it's just a discussion


 
this post is pathetic ^^


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## DFA

Yeah what about the artists who wanted to distribute their music for free on the anarcho-punk.net? And now they can't because crass fucked up hours and days of server uploads .
It just seems like they acted out of spite against forum users who just talk bad about them.
Steve charging 25 bucks for tickets at Slims (a clear channel owned venue mind you) was annoying, but this shit takes the cake.


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## kevlar

Everyone that has the albums should nuts make more copies and give them away. I'll even pay you for them. 
Everyone sells out eventually...


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## Earth

wow, where does one even begin here??
fortunately or unfortunately... thirty years ago, i was buying Crass records as they became available at places like Ratcage Records in new yorks lower east side.
those recordings... especially the Bullshit Detector comps really opened our eyes and ears to say the least.
keep in mind, back then you got beat up for not being like everybody else.
today, with all this diversity bullshit, everthings become safe, homonginized... and its like, i mean we were still talking about the sex pistols back in 80, 81 and we felt punk was already dead then.
but Crass was more than just music, it was art, it was telling the truth, and they paid dearly for it.
by 1985, the dream was dead.
actually, movement... as correctly stated earlier here.
i still got all my Crass vinyl, and several CDs which were generously presented to me maybe 2, 3 years ago (along with another great band, The Subhumans) for safe keeping in this studio.
i suspect there was a very good reason for that.....
anyway, so let me get this straight:
someone decides to put all of the listed Crass records on line so anyone could have them for free.
steve or someone else finds out and doesnt like it, so they file some sort of old school complaint, and now the whole thing is shut down??
something is not kosher with this whole thing........
such an ungrateful generation, wanting everything for free.....
something we never got


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## Benny

Who cares!? There not 19 years old anymore! Eventually your liver gives out and you need healthcare. Once you get older and realize that you have to pay bills and you cant squat the rest of your life, it's fucking time to collect royalty checks. Do you think they are getting rich.........NO. 

Look at all the hippies that grew up from the 60's and then joined the system. History repeats itself.


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## ipoPua

i guarantee you they're getting rich man, like i said they could wipe their ass with a napkin and sell it on ebay for cashflow, they're one of the biggest names in punkrock they dont need to shut down a cooperative filesharing website just to get their own records off. expensive shows is one thing, getting in the way of other people's business is something else entirely


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## Matt Derrick

bIackswan said:


> this post is pathetic ^^



I don't see why my post was "pathetic".


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## bIackswan

Matt Derrick said:


> I don't see why my post was "pathetic".


 
Well, you "pathetically" attempted to stop a pretty interesting argument, one I was enjoying reading up until you cried about it.


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## Matt Derrick

bIackswan said:


> Well, you "pathetically" attempted to stop a pretty interesting argument, one I was enjoying reading up until you cried about it.


 
now you're just being a dick. i was keeping the discussion on topic. warning given.


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## nameless

crass sucks anyways, they stopped being cool after i turned 15
so fuck em ill shit on their cd if i find one

partvacances


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## Doc Road

Fuck um.... Ill just have to find another way to steel there shit. keep the masks on folks, them filthy bastards are in EVERYTHING.


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## Doc Road

Nothings perfect i rekon, I just found out about the band yesterday(no bullshit). I see them for the artist they are, the music has a point of view that most of us can truly appreciate. so what if there full of shit, im not and they have inspired me, and surl tons of other young fuckoffs. music is a fabric, crass is just another thread. Like water, it goes stagnate, keep it fresh and flowing, they did there job.... i feel like jamming.


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## Benny

Crass patches has really just become a fashion statement for kids to look cool with. Most people have no idea what era crass is from. Steve Ignorant is about 55 now! Ha Ha....older than most kids parents on this site. Do you really think Crass gives a fuck about anything other than paying for their retirement fund? HaHaHaHa.........


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## bIackswan

Matt Pist said:


> now you're just being a dick. i was keeping the discussion on topic. warning given.


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## Deleted member 5971

crass sucks.. just like nirvana.. when u hit 16 its lame


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## bIackswan

Benny said:


> Crass patches has really just become a fashion statement for kids to look cool with. Most people have no idea what era crass is from. Steve Ignorant is about 55 now! Ha Ha....older than most kids parents on this site. Do you really think Crass gives a fuck about anything other than paying for their retirement fund? HaHaHaHa.........



True, cause I for one have absolutely no idea what era crass is from but I became so much co0ler once I sewed a few Crass patches onto my skinny's


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## ipoPua

nirvana's fucking amazing, eat turds


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## Jimmy James

What Crass did was just plain WRONG. The fact that they did not EVEN contact the site administrator over their 'issue' & filed 7 separate complaint's about 7 of their albums w/ the internet copy-write enforcers, instead of one complaint; seems pretty clear their intent was to get the site SHUT DOWN. This also shows TOTAL HYPOCRISY on their part and COMPLETE disregard for what they have been 'claiming' to be their political beliefs for the last 30 odd years. What a shame. What Nazi like behavior...From Crass even!
WTF is this world coming to?


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## Benny

Well...I'm not saying what he did wasn't shitty but its his music. Every song ever recorded in human history is free online so screwum. We will get what we want for free and they can't stop us.


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