Seriously thinking about sailing

[NocturnalJoe]

Am seriously thinking about sailing. Mostly grew up on the beach of Oregon, so know alittle about the sea and how it really is. Have been doing research into it and have found a site where i can get a free boat, but would need alot of repairs. Am a DIY guy, so looking to do the work myself. As cheap as possible using places like craigslist to find cheap or free building meterials like wood, ect. Have lived in RV's and owned and used solar systems before. But have never done anything like this before, and never been out more then 5 miles or so off shore. Looking to find others who can help, and maybe sail together. Am a anarcist and not going to bother with ship paperwork, passports, ect other then ownership papers for the ship. Any thoughts, idea's, suggestions?

 

[Matt Derrick]

not being concerned about papers and all is a nice thought, but not one you're going to get away with in reality. if you don't have your boat properly registered, safety equipment on board, and inspected, the coast guard can take your boat away.

If you're going to put that much work into something like that, play the game and do it legally, otherwise you're just wasting your time.

i have a few posts about sailing here:

http://squattheplanet.com/blog/travel/sailing/

 

[NocturnalJoe]

Hmm makes me wounder about thier authority on NON u.s. boats and non u.s. persons. Looked around and found this, but am still woundering....

THE U.S. COAST GUARD

The U.S. Coast Guard is authorized to enforce, or assist in the enforcement of, all U.S. Federal laws applicable on, over, and under the high seas and waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. These include laws which provide for the U.S. Coast Guard to exclusively act, and those which the Coast Guard enforces primarily for some other Federal agency. Generally, the Coast Guard must determine on a case-by-case basis whether it has jurisdiction. Besides determining whether it has the domestic authority to assert jurisdiction, it often must also determine whether an assertion of jurisdiction is consistent with international law. In many cases involving a foreign vessel, the Coast Guard decides whether it has jurisdiction over the vessel and its personnel based on three elements: the activities of the vessel and personnel, the location of the vessel, and the nationality of the vessel.

Two notes are warranted here. The first relates to the phrase "waters subject to United States jurisdiction." This phrase encompasses more than United States territorial waters; it also extends to those waters where the United States, pursuant to an agreement with a foreign government, has been authorized to take law enforcement action involving United States or foreign vessels. Such waters could, and in actual practice do, include foreign territorial waters.

The second point is that the Coast Guard may go aboard any United States vessel at any time, anywhere to conduct a documentation and safety inspection. A search of a U.S. vessel beyond this type of inspection is subject to limitations under the United States Constitution. If a search extends beyond this narrowly defined scope, a court may be asked to evaluate the legality of the search by balancing the individual’s right to privacy in the specific circumstances of the search against society’s interest in detecting criminal conduct.

 

[Matt Derrick]

my point was that you need to choose your battles. running around without papers or registration on a boat isn't one you can win.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

come on there matt but he's anarchist!

 

[Joni]

my point was that you need to choose your battles. running around without papers or registration on a boat isn't one you can win.

I agree with matt here. most likely they will treat like a drug dealer arrest you and sink your boat on the spot. Leaving it up to the courts to sort things out. They don't play around esp in the gulf. i have seen on Discovery channel documentary how they have gattling guns and the works to 'combat the war on drugs'. Makes sense even if it is propaganda. Also alienating the people around you that may save your life is probably not a good idea if you a running an older boat. at least look legal. :/

i'd never bring a knife to a gunfight... just sayin...
-joni

 

[Matt Derrick]

I agree with matt here. most likely they will treat like a drug dealer arrest you and sink your boat on the spot.

Haha I don't know about that, more likely they'd reposses your boat and sell it at a government auction.

 

[NocturnalJoe]

Am looking into declairing independence and starting a country, that would of course be the boat. To me this makes the most logical sense. Might be able to work with other contries to setup deals with them for trade and coming on shore.

 

[upcat]

I get you but what to you makes most logical sense some people find crazy. I know the few times I've been on boats here I've been hassled by the border/coast guard for passport and papers. I don't know what they do if you don't have them but they seem like serious guys haha. Once combed a boat for 2 hours searching drugs for no reason. Then again the world is a big place and one you're out in international waters you're supposedly free. If u don't want papers then a country with some level of overt corruption would take cash instead! How sea worthy is this boat? If you're just gonna be hovering around the coast it sounds like trouble

 

[Joni]

Also modern piracy is something to take as no joke. IMO when people get poor they take desperate measures. most americans are pretty well off even as a street kid in the USA compared to the rest of the world. A floating house is a heck of alot better than a hut in the barren plains/slums in some peoples eyes. Most of the news is about Africa but that is not the only place it is going on.


http://www.usni.org/store/catalog-fall-2012/pirate-alley
" After running head-on into a U.S. policy of catch-and-release, he realized that there was more to fighting piracy than just catching youngsters armed with AK-47s and RPGs."
Statements like that make me have a reality check for sure. RPG?!?!?! WTF ?!?!?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4424264.stm

Piracy hot spots:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41009000/gif/_41009058_piracy4_map416.gif

although on the flip side of the coin that $500K+ floating across your path is mighty nice looking retirement plan in china or mexico! ;D lol JK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy#United_States
Jail would be a retirement plan if you got caught lol

just some of my delusional thoughts...
-Joni

 

[Matt Derrick]

piracy is really the last of my worries sailing unless you're in one of those specific hot spots.

 

[Joni]

Haha I don't know about that, more likely they'd reposses your boat and sell it at a government auction.

true there. i suppose it all depends on circumstances.

 

[NocturnalJoe]

Yes piracy is a issue in different parts of the world, and plan on staying safe, even if that means avoiding those areas of the world. Just like trying to avoid areas that have alot of fallout due to the nuclear disaster in Japan.

As far as the legal side of it. Am in the works of starting a nation state, this includes the Right Of Self Determination, and exercise rights thereof. As a matter of self respect and responsibility. To see what I am talking about, there is a youtube video that gets into it alittle bit.

 

[tannedsails]

I agree with the previous concerns about paper work while in US waters - the US coast guards are young bastards with guns. However elsewhere (not the Caribbean though which is also US terror police domain) it's not the same. Bringing a boat into a country illegally would be nearly always risky, although you could get away with it you risk jail/deportation or losing the boat or both or maybe just a bribe depending on the country or whatnot but if you legally enter the country and buy the boat in the country then there's not much they can do other than kick you out of the country, but much less likely and less severe than sneaking you and a boat into the country. Even up north along the BC coast the enforcement level on the water, in comparison to the US coast guard is almost non existent there's tons of coast line and not very many people or cops, the Canadian Coast guard isn't even armed, they refuse to "enforce" and are primarily a life saving organisation. Good luck

 

[Adonis]

The risks of entering other countries waters vary greatly on where your leaving from and heading too.

USA, Mexico, China, Japan, Germany, Russia are the most high risk that I am aware of and I am sure many others can be added.

Australia (from North American west coast) is fairly easy if you don't mind the several month journey and then weeks of island hoping...

South America seems to be 50/50 and requires some study of current affairs and getting solid advice from experienced people doing/done it (more people than you think do this successfully every year).

The Caribbean is heavily Americanized and guarded as such although it's not considered overly difficult to "sneak into" esp Jamaica as it's diplomatic and economic ties are closest to Canada..

The risks of getting caught are not the only or even main risks of illegally entering a country by sea tho, in some (most cases) it's the route/methods needed to pull it off that have the highest risk since it's usually about life & death situations..,

 

[Deleted member 20]

I am sure there is also risk of those countries takng posession of your boat once caught.

 

[Matt Derrick]

but if you legally enter the country and buy the boat in the country then there's not much they can do other than kick you out of the country, but much less likely and less severe than sneaking you and a boat into the country.

technically this isn't 100% accurate. even if you buy a boat in a country you're not a citizen of, that country can still seize your boat if they choose to.

 

[Adonis]

I am sure there is also risk of those countries takng posession of your boat once caught.

Every aspect of life is full of risk, but it's also full of incredible adventures for those daring enough to risk it.

 

[tannedsails]

technically this isn't 100% accurate. even if you buy a boat in a country you're not a citizen of, that country can still seize your boat if they choose to.

Well yes they, if they want to take your boat away and have guns, they will. But you sneaking into a country with your boat illegally would mean nearly no legal hurdles for them to justify stealing your boat. You entering the country legally and buying property aka. a sailboat would mean them seizing your "legal" assets the same thing as taking land/house you've bought or holding a gun to you and taking your bag, shoes, wallet, bike, car and what ever they want - it happens for sure but I think probably less common than if you were to use this vehicle (aka. sailboat) for sneaking into the country. I've had 3 different friends deported from the US (and not allowed back in) for being in the country illegal for what ever reason, however the sailboat that they had bought in the US was NOT seized by the government because it was not used in the crime of sneaking into the country. Getting it back is another story and not easy either, especially if it's on the hard at the time. In most countries if your caught sneaking into the country on a boat, I doubt they would even hesitate taking the boat but if the boat has a different title than you've got a chance of your friends getting to you later or depending on the border sneaking back in and leaving with your boat.

 

[NocturnalJoe]

Have the paperwork sorted out, so am not worried about that at all.