Sailboats

[Diagaro]

In this thread witch I answered in a relatively better mood and it counts that I have had extensive dealings with Anyways I spilled my guts a little more anyone know about living on boats theres your answers
I'm too fucking stoned to try and cross reference and properly argue points in this thread anymore. one thing that sticks out in my fuddled mind is that yea I see alot of people that significantly and sometimes happily and untroolishly posted helpful knowledge - most are listed as "FORMER MEMBER"
or "I'M A DBAG AND GOT BANNED"
I'm going for Dbag B& as I don't give up easily, not even on annoying or ignorant people, not pointing a finger , just saying.

 

[Earth]

Man, there's some excellent points being made here all around - and not just on sailing either, but I'll throw in my 2 cents if I may (and I hope I'm not repeating anything as I did not read every post here). I've been kayaking since say 1975 thru 1983, then steadly for the last 5 years. Evrything from lakes to white water to tidal rivers to open water. I've been tempted to put a sail rig on one of my longer ocean going kayaks (AIRE Sea Tiger II, which incidently is the ultimate travel boat too) but then my woman last year mentioned she wanted to get into sailing. I said ok - and a miracle occured - I found a 1965 Sunfish - in real good shape - at a real good price - right at the other end of our street - and bought it. Know how many times she aksed about using it?? None. Because she wanted a $150k trimaran, which she could live on. I would argue that it's best to start out small, real small, learn the basics - then build from there. All I got in return was a blank stare. It's obvious as to who grew up rich and who grew up poor as she split from me / here because she couldn't take having to put in work. Anyway, I'm getting a trailer for the Sunfish and am gonna use it later this summer / fall in the Long Island Sound. Incidently I kayak up to 5.5 miles straight out into to an area called the Middle Grounds Light / Stratford Shoals - which is a late 1800's gothic style lighthouse on a rock thats less than an acre in size. Sailboats are no joke - they are great when everything's sorta predictable - but if you are dealing with changing / variable winds - you can get cracked in the head by a boom real fast if not paying attention - or capsised even... Definately make sure you know what you are getting yourself into, and don't expect to sail the world your first season. I trained for 2 solid years on a long tidal river before I even thought of crossing the L.I. Sound in a kayak mainly for endurance and physically being able to be in one for 6 hours at a time. I even got some drunks in a big sport fishing boat to make as violent as a wake as possible to simulate rough water. Now, I'm comfortable in up to 4 foot seas way way off-shore. And what's really crazy is I do all my trips solo. Many talk the talk, have crazy expensie kevelar boats - but they never actually use them, for they are more into the 'social scene' as opposed the real deal. Try to find some folks in your area who are sailing actively - or who used too - as to old knowledge is sometimes better than new. I worked on a couple of fishing boats out of Sheepshead Bay back in my youth, and that knowledge has stuck with me for life. PS: as a final note, my woman split for Seattle, where she plans to sail signs - but I've got a 10 to 15 year plan where if I do it right, I'll be dumping this studio and buying for cash a nice big catamaran live-a-board sail boat. By then I'll have accumulated much experience on different size boats (starting with the Sunfish this year, maybe a Hobie Cat next year) as I know you've got to start small to learn the basics. GOOD LUCK !!

 

[Myechtatel]

NO YOU DON'T! If you work hard to learn something, that knowledge is yours. Sometimes I think it's the only thing you really own. I like to share information and to help out when I can, which is why I check in here at StP from time to time, but IT'S MY CHOICE whether I want to share what I've learned with somebody or not! Jesus! I just don't understand where this sense of entitlement comes from!
And i want to make it clear I don't just mean you. But sometimes I feel like just purging my password and never logging on here again, which is what happened in one form or another to most of the wisdom pool of the trainhopping forum, which is a shame because there are some people who really want to learn, and others who really want to help.

I apologize for the rant. This has been building up for a while.
I hope you find a good boat.

Yeah I completely agree with that. I think you misunderstood. My point is that while it's extremely common for travelers to say that others should do what they're doing in order to avoid working, etc; when questions on how to do so, they refuse to give answers. that's what i think is stupid and hypocritical.

 

[hamikman]

Can't resist putting in my $0.02. I just finished replying to someone else's similar question on another thread. Its there if you're interested in my opinion on aquiring a boat. I liveaboard a smal sailboat in British Columbia. Sailed it offshore south to SF last fall and brought her home this spring. Like the other guys here with boat knowledge I think you have to learn a lot of shit before you head out onto the ocean. Even SF Bay (especially actually) can be deadly. If you're going to coastal cruise w coast there's few places to run and hide so you have to know what you're doing. Off shore can be more violent but there's a lot less to hit. On Canadian w coast lots of islands etc making for excellent gunkholing etc. But I digress. If you want to get some experience really the best thing is to make friends with sailors. Take beer, food, cook etc, etc and get them to take you sailing and get you to do hands on work. Taking coast gaurd courses etc will do a ton of good too. Theres a lot of reading to do as well. Sorry to burst your baloon but it nothing like pirates of the caribean. Theres also the whole culture of long distance crewing. There are many skippers with boats too big for them and wife etc to handle alone (stupid fucks with little dicks but thats a whole other topic) and so they want crew for thier trip to Hawaii or Tonga or even down the coast to SD or where ever. These guys will often take inexperienced people and teach them the ropes so to speak. What they will teach will be minimal though and it would be up to that person to try and absorb as much as they can. These skippers typically want a deck monkey to pull, scrape, paint, cook and do that trick at the wheel in the wee hours. All that said it can be a great experience on the right boat so if you can cook, have a basic mechanical knowledge like your average guy its not impossible to get these gigs. Its actually a fairly common way of getting to New Zealand or where ever for some people. There used to be a book published called "The Seagoing Hitchhikers Guide". There's likely a website about it. There are definitely websites for getting crewing positions. It can be competitive- for example if a greenhorn and I were wanting the same crewing position - guess who'd get it? Unless that greenhorn looked like Marisa Tomei, cooked like Martha Stewart and was a sex adict. Ya thats right, women get crewing positions quite easily. Hope that was some help.

 

[Diagaro]

Also a greenhorn will get grabbed over a seasoned salt (from what I've heard) 'cause the greenhorn is a blank slate adn will not do in leu of what the cap'n wants, what he'd/she'd been learned on a previous cap'ns boat - I.e., you don't wanna take set in stone knowledge on someones boat as it will almost alwase be THE WRONG way to do the deed in question.
applied experience: purse sainer in puget sound fall of '09

 

[Shannon]

Hi! I don't claim to know much, but maybe I can help? I crewed some on cruisers around Palau and Philippines.

First, a really good resource for learning the very basics of sailing is the Cal Sailing Club in Berkeley. Seventy-five dollars and three hours of volunteering gives you three months of unlimited hands-on sailing instruction with their dinghies, and, eventually, keelboats. I don't know of such a deal anywhere--if you're serious about this, it would be worth relocating to the Bay temporarily. They're good folks.

Second, if you just want a cheap place to stay, research marinas where you can dock your boat. I wouldn't expect less than a hundred or more a month even in the boondocks (and that may be in areas with no facilities, where you're basically squatting), and much more in population centers. But again, others know better.


Third, you might want to preview the lifestyle beforehand. There is NO PERSONAL SPACE on a 37- to 45- ft sailboat (that's the size you're looking at). No space for aerobic activity, really, either, unless you like swimming in the surrounding waters or jogging in one place.
Finding a gig on cruisers is all about who you know, so make connections with other fellas at the dock. The Seafaring Hitch-hiker's Handbook, referenced earlier, is outdated by now (I read it while on my second yacht). Most anybody can be taught anything, the yacht owners are looking for someone that they can comfortably share a very small space with. Likewise, get to really know the person that you'll be working for before accepting any position--you're putting your life into his hands. It should be someone you can get along with well under the most trying circumstances, who won't screw you over.

I could stand to be corrected. Hopefully this might be somewhat helpful to ya.

 

[hamikman]

Shannon- that sounds like excellent advice. The berkely place sounds like an awesome deal for a beginner.

 

[Diagaro]

Here comes Mr. negativity again . . .
The BerCal sailors will tear you apart if you cannot take critisizem let alone have no beginner knowledge of boats - I.e., if you cannot understand "helms alee" or "slacken the tack line" or if your told to "go aft and wait for instructions" and you look at the captain like hes speaking greek your sailing life will be short lived, you WILL NOT BE WELCOMED BACK ABOARD AGAIN.
If you want some one to hold your hand and teach you EVERYTHING step by step, go to the small pirate marina at the far west end of 5th off Embarcadero, south of Jack London square and ask around for mike. not only does he have shitloads of shitty boats slipping through his fingers he also is a key contact in the greater bay area for learning anything about anything - but he is a fucking PIRATE Real fucking deal, don't trust him hes a shyster and an underhanded sneak, but if you can defeat him at his own game if you have any brains, just don't fuck with the housies, they will fry you. that is all I have to say about sailing in the bay.

 

[cranberrydavid]

OK, let me tell the story of how I learned to sail, FWIW.

I grew up in a commercial fishing community. My dad and my uncle both fished from time to time, so I know something about boats and water.

Later, when I was going to the University of Washington, living below radar to save money ( dumstering U Village for my food, selling plasma on the Ave for my cash, and sleeping on campus in the back of my car) I'd often park at night behind the stadium down by the lake. I'd wake up to the sound of the rowing club and the sailing club going out to practice.

I decided I wanted to teach myself to sail, so I got a 25 cent copy of Royce's Sailing Illustrated and started reading through it at random. It's still one of the best sailing books out there. 1000 useful facts, good pics, and fits in your pocket. Then I'd sit and watch the boats for hours, trying to make sense of everything I was seeing and reading. Sometimes I'd catch lines or help people carry gear, always trying to be helpful.

After a week or so, when I'd figured out everything I could on my own and people were starting to get curious about the weird guy sitting on the bank, I introduced myself to one of them, told him i was trying to teach myself about sailing, and asked if he'd mind answering a few questions. I made sure they were intelligent ones.

He was pretty cool and asked if I wanted to join the club, but I just shrugged it off and let him know I couldn't afford it. A few days later people started inviting me to go sailing, and going out of their way to explain things to me. Some of them were pretty clueless, but I probably learned more from them by watching them screw up than I did from the aces. Or maybe not, I don't know.

30 years later I'm still sailing.

Lots of small boat time is really valuable for training reflexes. They capsize faster than large boats, but you don't usually get hurt. That's the only way I know to learn the "Spidey Sense" of how hard you can push a boat before she's about to bite you, and how to handle helm and sheets to bring her back under control in the second or two you have before she goes over. I've been right to the edge of a knock-down on a 68 footer off shore in a storm, and although it feels different than an el Toro on a sunny day on Lake Washington, the old instincts still let you know that you're poised to be fucked!

 

[Diagaro]

Excellent! brings a tear to my eye!

 

[cranberrydavid]

A cool bit of sailing video. Not my type of sailing, but there's a lot to be learned from this. Nobody panics. Everybody does their job:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=x1MOsI1BfbM