Question I'm considering moving StP to a reddit-like open source software alternative; Thoughts?

[Matt Derrick]

If you haven't been paying attention to the social media sphere lately (and I wouldn't blame you), Reddit is currently blacked out in protest due to their CEO being up to the usual CEO bullshit of unrepentingly screwing their community as hard as they can. Currently, hundreds of thousands of users are flocking to Reddit alternatives like beehaw.org and kbin.social.

Much like the recent Twitter debacle, this has renewed my interest in re-positioning StP as an open source social media website, ideally working with ActivityPub and the Fediverse. I don't really have any interest in being the next Reddit, but there are reddit-like features in open source alternatives like Lemmy and KBin that I think would be useful and actually create less work for myself (a big plus IMO).

In the tests I've done over the past few days....

Some of the benefits would include:

• Anyone can create a community about whatever they want (i.e. squattheplanet.com/c/train-hopping or squattheplanet.com/c/gaming) as long as it doesn't violate our website rules.
• Even if you have an account on squattheplanet.com, you can follow other communities on other lemmy/kbin sites (also mastodon accounts) by putting their url into the search and clicking 'subscribe'
• similarly, you could follow StP communities in other sites or apps that follow the ActivityPub protocol (i.e. Mastodon, Lemmy, Kbin, almost all other fediverse apps)
• an overall very lightweight browsing experience (i.e. mostly text, not a ton of graphics, will load faster in mobile browsers).
• Unlike systems like discord, discussions are archived and able to be indexed by search engines, so discussions can be found on google/duckduckgo/other search sites
• the software is free to use and being developed 'open source' so anyone can look at the code and add features or make bug fixes
• If we end up ditching Discord for Matrix (an open source live chat alternative to discord) at some point in the future, Matrix supports ActivityPub, so folks will be able to get StP content in the Matrix client.
• Lemmy has a decent mobile app called Jerboa for Lemmy. I think the layout could be nicer, but it's very new and in active development.

Some drawbacks (off the top of my head) include:

• reddit/lemmy/kbin are mostly link aggregators that support discussion about those links, but that hasn't stopped people from using it as a forum as well, so not a huge drawback
• emphasis is laid onto the discussions or links/photos/content, so user profiles are minimal. If you like having a big fancy profile, you won't have that in reddit-like apps
• the biggest drawback would have to be that there's no import function for any of those pieces of software. This means I can't import our current discussions to the new software, we would be starting from scratch. That said, I would definitely create a website archive (something like old.squattheplanet.com) so that information doesn't get lost.
• reddit/lemmy/kbin lack advanced features. One example would be our 'reactions' system (i.e. likes/dislikes/poo rating). there's just an upvote/downvote system (downvotes can be turned off entirely if we want to do that).
• while admins will be able to make changes in any community, ideally that community should be moderated by the person that created it (or assign mod duties to others)
• these systems are not as 'pretty' as the current site or the other software alternative I'm looking at, Flarum.
• The developers of lemmy are definitely tankies and their main site Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad.ml smack down content that isn't pro-communist or criticizes that ideology. Most leftist-leaning lemmy/kbin servers block those sites from interacting with their lemmy/kbin communities. I am not aware of the Kbin software developers having any political allegiances.
• While Lemmy has a mobile app, KBin does not. I've read that the developers are working on one but it's not ready for use yet.

On a side note, I'm still seriously considering Flarum, because it's essentially a message board software with a lot of the modern features we are used to, and we can import our past discussions into it. It is NOT part of ActivityPub or the Fediverse, but they are very interested in adding support for those systems at some point in the future.

TL;DR -- The Reddit blackout has opened my eyes to some possible alternatives to StP. The biggest advantage would be giving users the ability to create their own communities. The biggest drawback would be not being able to interact with our previous message board discussions (which date back to 2006).

Please vote on the poll and post any comments you might have. I know I haven't covered everything about these software alternatives, so please post any questions you have below and I'll do my best to answer them as soon as possible. Thanks in advance for your time and input!

 

[MetalBryan]

I like that the current StP feels more "private" in that it's mostly shielded from indexing and has checks/mods to keep the shit away. You have to join to get access. The best thing about this community is also the worst thing - we're all a bit anti-social or contrarian or just weird and we need to protect the content from ourselves. Lemmy & KBin seem impersonal at least visually, and I think having easy access to the wealth of info on StP is critical which is why I voted for Flarum. Since we're either mobile or at least interested in discussing being mobile, a friendly app seems like the logical next step.

 

[texastraveler]

Reddit is a cesspool and the site design is ass imo. I really dig on the forum style, it's very nostalgic and it makes it easy for people to find what they're looking for. My vote is for whatever is most similar to what there is now

 

[Coywolf]

the biggest drawback would have to be that there's no import function for any of those pieces of software. This means I can't import our current discussions to the new software, we would be starting from scratch. That said, I would definitely create a website archive (something like old.squattheplanet.com) so that information doesn't get lost.

I feel that accessing the past site content is one of the most important aspects of StP as it is now, and that feature is invaluable to this being a community that seeks to assist new travelers/be a source of info and prior experience that is available nowhere else on the internet....so thats a point against any software where we cannot directly access prior threads/content.

That is one of the main reasons that I came to StP in the first place, and it has been invaluable to me.

The developers of lemmy are definitely tankies and their main site Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad.ml smack down content that isn't pro-communist or criticizes that ideology. Most leftist-leaning lemmy/kbin servers block those sites from interacting with their lemmy/kbin communities. I am not aware of the Kbin software developers having any political allegiances.

I'm just going to be straight up. I fucking hate subreddits/Social media run by tankies. I cant handle those people.

And if they are the ones in charge of the software, I'm a big NO in joining a community where they are in charge/are developing the software.

I like that the current StP feels more "private" in that it's mostly shielded from indexing and has checks/mods to keep the shit away. You have to join to get access. The best thing about this community is also the worst thing - we're all a bit anti-social or contrarian or just weird and we need to protect the content from ourselves. Lemmy & KBin seem impersonal at least visually, and I think having easy access to the wealth of info on StP is critical which is why I voted for Flarum. Since we're either mobile or at least interested in discussing being mobile, a friendly app seems like the logical next step.

In total agreement here.

Reddit is a cesspool and the site design is ass imo. I really dig on the forum style, it's very nostalgic and it makes it easy for people to find what they're looking for. My vote is for whatever is most similar to what there is now

While I don't think reddit is a 'cesspool' (I actually really like reddit, it kinda depends on what you get into on there)

But I also agree that this is probably the best version on StP I've yet seen, and something similar would be the best, IMO.

Definitely like the mobile feature. Definitely like access to previous threads. Definitely like the forum style. Dislike tankies.

I have to look through some of these options more, but im....really liking what you've built here atm Matt.

 

[texastraveler]

I feel that accessing the past site content is one of the most important aspects of StP as it is now, and that feature is invaluable to this being a community that seeks to assist new travelers/be a source of info and prior experience that is available nowhere else on the internet....so thats a point against any software where we cannot directly access prior threads/content.

That is one of the main reasons that I came to StP in the first place, and it has been invaluable to me.



I'm just going to be straight up. I fucking hate subreddits/Social media run by tankies. I cant handle those people.

And if they are the ones in charge of the software, I'm a big NO in joining a community where they are in charge/are developing the software.



In total agreement here.



While I don't think reddit is a 'cesspool' (I actually really like reddit, it kinda depends on what you get into on there)

But I also agree that this is probably the best version on StP I've yet seen, and something similar would be the best, IMO.

Definitely like the mobile feature. Definitely like access to previous threads. Definitely like the forum style. Dislike tankies.

I have to look through some of these options more, but im....really liking what you've built here atm Matt.

i just hate reddit's social credit system, it's rife with abuse and the site is super monotonous. you hear the same shit parroted everywhere because people need to fish for good boy points

 

[Coywolf]

i just hate reddit's social credit system, it's rife with abuse and the site is super monotonous. you hear the same shit parroted everywhere because people need to fish for good boy points

Ya, I hate the whole 'Karma' concept as well. But I try to actively ignore that. I just think the responses on that media platform are just more, i dunno...authentic? You can also choose what is thrown into your face, and can filter out all the political/social bullshit by only subscribing to certain subreddits. Not completely, but better than most other choices.

Its the best platform I've found (so far)....I mean...beside StP of course 🙃

 

[Matt Derrick]

Im just going to be straight up. I fucking hate subreddits/Social media run by tankies. I cant handle those people.

I wholeheartedly agree, but I do want to clarify here that Lemmy is 'open source' software, meaning anyone can contribute to it. This includes 'forking' the code (I.e. making your own copy where edits are separate from the original).

The short version is that any tankie developers would be disincentiveized from making controversial changes as those changes would become immediatley obvious, and someone would raise the alarm and probably fork the project to one that doesn't have those changes. Its one of the many advantages of open source software. Everyone knows what's going on under the hood, and if you don't like it, you can copy it and make your own version.

So its not really 'run' by tankies, there are some devs that have tankie politics, but those are mostly contained to their personal sites (listed in my OP above).

 

[Matt Derrick]

Just an update, based on feedback here and in the discord I'm still leaning towards a forum/message board centric solution, the previously mentioned Flarum message board software.

That said, I DO really like Lemmy/KBin and will be using it as my active replacement for Reddit. I also think the fediverse and decentralization is the way to go for general social media/community information sharing going into the future. I'm going to keep tabs on Flarum's progress into the fediverse and hopefully we'll get that function for it someday in the near future (update: it looks like it's in the roadmap for their version 2.0 release! yay!).

All this said, the poll is still going for another three weeks, so please vote and post your opinions here!

 

[texastraveler]

Just an update, based on feedback here and in the discord I'm still leaning towards a forum/message board centric solution, the previously mentioned Flarum message board software.

That said, I DO really like Lemmy/KBin and will be using it as my active replacement for Reddit. I also think the fediverse and decentralization is the way to go for general social media/community information sharing going into the future. I'm going to keep tabs on Flarum's progress into the fediverse and hopefully we'll get that function for it someday in the near future (update: it looks like it's in the roadmap for their version 2.0 release! yay!).

All this said, the poll is still going for another three weeks, so please vote and post your opinions here!

If ypu decide to migrate to a different platform in the future, what's the future of the current forum? I feel it's a great resource for new travellers and oI'd be really bummed to see it lost, wpuld it be kept around even if in an archived, read-only capacity?

 

[Matt Derrick]

If ypu decide to migrate to a different platform in the future, what's the future of the current forum? I feel it's a great resource for new travellers and oI'd be really bummed to see it lost, wpuld it be kept around even if in an archived, read-only capacity?

The current goal with flarum would be to import our old data into the new system so there would be little to no loss.

In the event that isn't possible, an online archive of the old site would be made available.