medium alice is + 2350 CI
large alice is +3800 CI
cfp-90 +4250 with patrol pack attached(+1200 CI) its volume is around 5450 CI
im not sure if these volumes include the large top flap compartment that all three packs share(in fact, the cfp-90 looks to me like many of the design concepts of the alice system were merely incorporated into the cfp-90)
LC2 – Medium W/Frame. Max load 45 LBS
LC2 – Large W/Frame. Max load 60 Lbs
CFP-90 W/O patrol pack Max load 116 Lbs.
CFP-90 W/Patrol pack Max load carried 120 Lbs.
Yes it is certainly more bulky than the large alice pack, but it is a little taller and narrower than the alice pack. sleeping gear can be carried internally with the cfp-90 whereas with the alice system it is supposed to be attached to the bottom of the pack and frame.
I personally think it is a little better fit for taller and larger framed people than the alice(which i used to use when i was a bulletproof kid) and it has the advantage of the shoulder straps being adjustable for a persons height.
Not all packs work for all people. if something works for you, then it works for you and the devil take the naysayers.
A word of caution: find one that is USA made. Specialty Defence Systems will be on the tag and i seem to remember that there is an outfit in pennsylvania that made them for Specialty Defence Systems. If the pack has a tag from a maker with a pennsylvania address it is USA made. Avoid the foreign built ones that tout that they are "improved" or "above milspec". There have been many complaints of these foreign made packs not holding up like the true mil-spec ones.
large alice is +3800 CI
cfp-90 +4250 with patrol pack attached(+1200 CI) its volume is around 5450 CI
im not sure if these volumes include the large top flap compartment that all three packs share(in fact, the cfp-90 looks to me like many of the design concepts of the alice system were merely incorporated into the cfp-90)
LC2 – Medium W/Frame. Max load 45 LBS
LC2 – Large W/Frame. Max load 60 Lbs
CFP-90 W/O patrol pack Max load 116 Lbs.
CFP-90 W/Patrol pack Max load carried 120 Lbs.
Yes it is certainly more bulky than the large alice pack, but it is a little taller and narrower than the alice pack. sleeping gear can be carried internally with the cfp-90 whereas with the alice system it is supposed to be attached to the bottom of the pack and frame.
I personally think it is a little better fit for taller and larger framed people than the alice(which i used to use when i was a bulletproof kid) and it has the advantage of the shoulder straps being adjustable for a persons height.
Not all packs work for all people. if something works for you, then it works for you and the devil take the naysayers.
A word of caution: find one that is USA made. Specialty Defence Systems will be on the tag and i seem to remember that there is an outfit in pennsylvania that made them for Specialty Defence Systems. If the pack has a tag from a maker with a pennsylvania address it is USA made. Avoid the foreign built ones that tout that they are "improved" or "above milspec". There have been many complaints of these foreign made packs not holding up like the true mil-spec ones.
med and large alice will both work with or without frame. the pack has attachment loops at the top and bottom. use the same shoulder straps. for a short walk with a light load it (used to be for me) actually better to not use the frame.
yes, they are old school, but dirt cheap for a used one if you hunt around. i can get em here for 4.95 for large, no straps or frame of course, but the straps are not that expensive and a frame set up with the improved, longer straps and waistpad runs a little over 20 bucks here.
yes, they are old school, but dirt cheap for a used one if you hunt around. i can get em here for 4.95 for large, no straps or frame of course, but the straps are not that expensive and a frame set up with the improved, longer straps and waistpad runs a little over 20 bucks here.
sh4d0wm4573ri7
New member
I really like my Ranger Ruk its almost exact design of medium Alice. I can get 50 pounds of gear in it with no problem,and it's comfortable with a full load. But prefer to carry much less when I trek. It is completely compatible with the frame and all accessory's used by the Alice. All in all I think its a good wearing heavy duty pak that is comfy even though it carries extra weight.
D
Deleted member 20
Guest
Fuck ALICE has left the fucking building, she was ok ten years ago as cheap surplus but wtf? I wore one to hell & back in the military 15 years ago & then on the road after & swore by them for years, now I swear at then. I have got better more lightweight external frame packs out of the trash Now I am into the new school molle assault type packs. In exchange for weight & volume (they are heavy even empty & not really big or comfy once full since lacking a frame system. but hell they are only designed for short patrols. Old school ALICE packs are obsolete with frame or without & if its all you got or can afford than It will work, i would comb craigslist for a cheap gently used yuppie pack & oh how your back will thank you. Anyone looking for a free pack, check my Black Market listing.
Came across this in Hot Mess free store in Oakland.
Mtndoo bottle to exemplify the size.
I have never seen an Alice this large. I thought I was stuck with my jansport, mind you I will probably keep the jansport around at my dads house for example as hes alwase in need of an extra hiking pack for one of his buddies to borrow that don't have one, but If I hit the road again this is gonna be my turtle shell, I just need some shoulder straps for it, currently I'm using the top flap cinch straps as makeshift shoulder straps for short distance in-town reconnaissance and hauling, but I think I can get some straps at an army/navy surplus store for like 10 - 15 $'s
Mtndoo bottle to exemplify the size.
I have never seen an Alice this large. I thought I was stuck with my jansport, mind you I will probably keep the jansport around at my dads house for example as hes alwase in need of an extra hiking pack for one of his buddies to borrow that don't have one, but If I hit the road again this is gonna be my turtle shell, I just need some shoulder straps for it, currently I'm using the top flap cinch straps as makeshift shoulder straps for short distance in-town reconnaissance and hauling, but I think I can get some straps at an army/navy surplus store for like 10 - 15 $'s
hey dregede,
That is the large alice pack, also called a mountain ruck by some.
Unless i am greatly mistaken that pack does not have the fabric loop with metal ring to attach alice straps.
the padded piece up top slides over the frame and the straps attach to the frame.
the medium alice can be carried either on frame or without frame.
one of my earlier posts stated both types can be carried without frame. this was incorrect and i should have changed it when i realized it , but folks hopped in saying what a piece of shit the alice packs are so i never bothered. i hope you did not grab this pack going on the incorrect information i wrote.
That is the large alice pack, also called a mountain ruck by some.
Unless i am greatly mistaken that pack does not have the fabric loop with metal ring to attach alice straps.
the padded piece up top slides over the frame and the straps attach to the frame.
the medium alice can be carried either on frame or without frame.
one of my earlier posts stated both types can be carried without frame. this was incorrect and i should have changed it when i realized it , but folks hopped in saying what a piece of shit the alice packs are so i never bothered. i hope you did not grab this pack going on the incorrect information i wrote.
Naw man I have had numerous alices just never this large, I thought there was only one size. and yea there is no apparent way to attach straps to the sack itself. but I have D rings and [] rings and lots of dental floss, theres nothing that stays unsatisfactory for long in my collection of fabric things.
Agni Riniari
<(-.-<) ^(-.-)^ (>-.-)> ^(-.-)^ <(-.-<)
I have an XL Osprey Crescent 75 that I got really cheap from a friend selling some junk of his. It is in perfect condition and I took it to the East Coast just a few months ago.
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/01-crescent-series-75-backpack-by-osprey-packs-for-men~p~85241/
While this is a great pack that carries a sh!t ton of stuff and still has all of its straps, even the detachable padded strap that goes around the waist to help support the whole thing and take the stress off your back, due to its size, I feel that I should find another pack to use. I was considering selling this on CL or something to help pay for another smaller pack, maybe from a surplus store.
I am doing some research on Alice packs online, as well as other brands, though, any suggestions are welcome.
In the beginning, I was considering using it, but making sure to not pack it very heavily, though, recently, I have just been having my doubts.
Anyone else think it would be better to downsize to a different pack?
- Agni
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/01-crescent-series-75-backpack-by-osprey-packs-for-men~p~85241/
While this is a great pack that carries a sh!t ton of stuff and still has all of its straps, even the detachable padded strap that goes around the waist to help support the whole thing and take the stress off your back, due to its size, I feel that I should find another pack to use. I was considering selling this on CL or something to help pay for another smaller pack, maybe from a surplus store.
I am doing some research on Alice packs online, as well as other brands, though, any suggestions are welcome.
In the beginning, I was considering using it, but making sure to not pack it very heavily, though, recently, I have just been having my doubts.
Anyone else think it would be better to downsize to a different pack?
- Agni
K
Kim Chee
Guest
That's a pretty nice pack. I like it, its just a little too tall for what I'm doing. If it weren't so tall I'd consider swapping you a medium alice with frame that is nearly new (lotsa people here would say you'd be dumb to trade for an alice though).
Shit, I can get over the fact that its so tall and be able to trade you (I'm on the west coast).
Alice is what is used because they are usually cheap.
Alice suffers from not being able to adjust for torso length. It also ignores a critical method of load carrying which is the ability to adjust the weight of the load onto your hips. A good pack should have shoulder straps that attach just below the top of your shoulders with the top of the pack actually a little above your shoulders. at this high point the shoulder straps should have an adjustable strap running up to the top of the pack.
Alice suffers from not being able to adjust for torso length. It also ignores a critical method of load carrying which is the ability to adjust the weight of the load onto your hips. A good pack should have shoulder straps that attach just below the top of your shoulders with the top of the pack actually a little above your shoulders. at this high point the shoulder straps should have an adjustable strap running up to the top of the pack.
Agni Riniari
<(-.-<) ^(-.-)^ (>-.-)> ^(-.-)^ <(-.-<)
I really love the pack, but, like you said, it is rather tall for some things. I am going to be traveling by foot, hitch, hop, etc., and it may be too tall for those purposes as well, simply in the sense of how large and cumbersome it is. So, I might consider trading, as I am on the West Coast as well. Though, I will take some time to look through the types of packs that are out there as well as visit the surplus to see what they have there. Also, if I could maybe sell it and get some cash to not only pay for the new pack, but have a little extra left over to pocket, that would probably be what I would do, for obvious reasons.
Hm. Well, I had only started looking at Alice packs, but, I guess maybe I will look at a different type. I mean, the one I have obviously is amazing, but it is a bit large and might make it a little difficult to get around. I mean, it is not heavy unless I pack it full, and I can put like a few weeks worth of clothes in this thing with a few extra things added in the detachable pack and pockets. So, I would never really be wanting for space if I kept it, but, again, it is a bit large, and, like someone said before, the more expensive packs can tend to get swiped from you.
I am really enjoying these opinions. Please, do keep them coming.
- Agni
well, if your heading through phoenix you can swing by and get some hands on with the military cfp-90(which is as large as yours)
medium and large alice on original frame with original straps and also with upgraded straps,
molle frame and straps with medium and large alice on it,
and a couple of other options like a blackhawk three day assault pack with add ons or the cfp-90 patrol pack on a molle frame with added pouches.
i dont have the molle ruck for the molle frames as i was attempting to upgrade the alice gear i have.
i also have a internal frame hiking pack but i suspect it is as large as yours.
medium and large alice on original frame with original straps and also with upgraded straps,
molle frame and straps with medium and large alice on it,
and a couple of other options like a blackhawk three day assault pack with add ons or the cfp-90 patrol pack on a molle frame with added pouches.
i dont have the molle ruck for the molle frames as i was attempting to upgrade the alice gear i have.
i also have a internal frame hiking pack but i suspect it is as large as yours.
Agni Riniari
<(-.-<) ^(-.-)^ (>-.-)> ^(-.-)^ <(-.-<)
I took a look at some of those packs, especially the CFP-90, and I like the look of them. They seem like they would give everything a way better "compact" feel to let me move better and prevent me from getting it snagged on anything, while still having a decent carrying capacity.
I am going to keep looking in that area and see if the surplus store has anything like it when I can make the trip out to it. (It's in Seattle >.<)
- Agni
I am going to keep looking in that area and see if the surplus store has anything like it when I can make the trip out to it. (It's in Seattle >.<)
- Agni
Cfp 90 is about 4250 ci without the 2400 ci "patrol pack" attached. The patrol pack has its own straps and can be worn as a frameless ruck for dayhiking. both parts of this system will accept either alice or molle gear attachments.
Note that the straps and upper backpad are adjustable up and down by loosening two screws.
The one tryout I took the pack on I did not take the patrol pack with me. I had two one quart mil canteens attached to the back and a mil issue e-tool in carrier. Had the mil issue bivy and green patrol bag stuffed into the bottom compartment.
I was very comfortable but I was very aware i was carrying a LARGE pack, though very aware it was loaded very lightly.
The one you linked is 4900 for the xlarge, which is what i assume you have. they are built much the same.
If you decide on cfp 90 DO NOT buy an "enhanced" one or one that is any color but woodland. it must have a tag inside from specialty defence systems or an outfit in pennsylvania. this assures it is a mil issue US made one. Do not buy a foreign made one.
Dont pay more than about 75 for the whole system, both packs, used and dont pay over a hundred if its still sealed in the bag.
just thought id pass on the info.
Note that the straps and upper backpad are adjustable up and down by loosening two screws.
The one tryout I took the pack on I did not take the patrol pack with me. I had two one quart mil canteens attached to the back and a mil issue e-tool in carrier. Had the mil issue bivy and green patrol bag stuffed into the bottom compartment.
I was very comfortable but I was very aware i was carrying a LARGE pack, though very aware it was loaded very lightly.
The one you linked is 4900 for the xlarge, which is what i assume you have. they are built much the same.
If you decide on cfp 90 DO NOT buy an "enhanced" one or one that is any color but woodland. it must have a tag inside from specialty defence systems or an outfit in pennsylvania. this assures it is a mil issue US made one. Do not buy a foreign made one.
Dont pay more than about 75 for the whole system, both packs, used and dont pay over a hundred if its still sealed in the bag.
just thought id pass on the info.