- abortion -

veggieguy12

veggieguy12

The Captain
Inspired by the thread "Who's having kids?"...
Beyond religious moralism imposed by dogmatic nutcases, I don't see why it's such a taboo or a moral controversy. Nobody chastises or demonizes someone for having anything removed from their body, but assholes protest and slander and guilt & shame women who get abortions, and the more extreme end of this anti-choice position advocates killing abortion providers. What the fuck?

I understand someone not wanting to talk about their medical/body issues, but as much as someone can talk about any procedure or treatment, I think abortion ought to be as on-the-table and without question.
And I might agree that there's some life to what would, perhaps, eventually be born as a human baby. But there's also life to a sixth finger on a hand, or tumor growing in the brain, or the pancreas whose purpose in the body is not fully understood - yet nobody seems to have any qualms about removing these things.

So, to close this rant, I think that it's nobody else's fucking business what a woman does with her body, and I'm curious what other StP'ers think about this controversial topic.
(And if you take offense that I referred to so-called 'pro-life' protesters as "assholes", chances are good that you qualify as a self-righteous, judgmental, dogmatic asshole.)
 
Ok, I personally don't believe in abortion. I was brought up to believe that if you are woman enough to drop your panties, then you deal with the consequences. I don't care if other women have 49845734 abortions. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't really want kids, but if it ever happened and I think I couldn't take care of a child, like I said in the other thread about having kids, I'd adopt it out. Bc theres tons of people who want them but can't have them. But, back on track, I think at the date of conception, it is still a living person. I also don't believe in using the morning after pill or Plan B either. But, thats just me.. And like Veggieguy said, its a persons own choice. And I think people should have the freedom of doing whatever they want if they get pregnant. People should always have the freedom of choice.
 
devenheartbreak said:
Ok, I personally don't believe in abortion. I was brought up to believe that if you are woman enough to drop your panties, then you deal with the consequences.
Click to expand...

deven, perhaps you can help me understand your point of view: Why is having an abortion not considered "dealing with the consequences" of sex?
I don't get it; I think having an abortion IS a way of responsibly dealing with the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy.
It seems like you (and others) see 'being responsible' as limited to carrying to term and then birthing a child; what gives?

Arrow, thanks for sharing your story. Nobody needs to give personal details to explain her/his position, so your frankness is appreciated.
 
Hahaha, well, I didn't want to start the topic, but since you asked..
Super 100% pro-choice, I am. Although I hate the bi-partisan options of being "pro-life" or "pro-choice" in a debate that should never have reached national politics as it is and just serves as a distraction from things that actually affect the world..
Anyway, I'm pro-women having control over their bodies. Unwanted pregnancies have been intentionally miscarried since the beginning of recreational fucking. I think more people could be happy with the idea if herbal abortions were more widespread than surgical. I think we should be able to take matters completely into our own hands (although of course sometimes herbal abortion doesn't succeed and surgical/medical is necessary) and learn how to really be tuned into our own bodies instead of having to rely on a doctor to vacuum out our uterus, ouch..
As for adoption, I think a lot of people underestimate the physical/psychological strain of carrying a child to term, connecting with it with in utero, giving birth (ouch, again), and then giving the child away. I, at least, would find that way more psychologically damaging than miscarrying the pregnancy while the thing was made up of a few cells.
Most of the debate, really, is based around the idea that human life is more important than other life. Fuck that, sanctity of life is every life or not at all.
 
I am 100% pro-abortion. If the numbers given on the "pro life" (bahahaha) shirts I've seen at school are accurate (which I doubt), abortion has prevented a lot of humans. I back that.
 
veggieguy12 said:
deven, perhaps you can help me understand your point of view: Why is having an abortion not considered "dealing with the consequences" of sex?
I don't get it; I think having an abortion IS a way of responsibly dealing with the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy.
It seems like you (and others) see 'being responsible' as limited to carrying to term and then birthing a child; what gives?
Click to expand...

I agree. My sister had a kid a while ago and now it's just chaos on the whole family. My mom more or less raises the kid, my parents are both taking on more work to pay for all the expenses, etc. All of this, it seems, is gonna be a hectic environment for my nephew to be growing up in. I feel that if you have a kid, it has to be in the absolute best environment possible, and a lot of unplanned pregnancies don't lead to that.

But moreover, I agree with Widerstand 100000%. This should be a debate amongst women, not men.
 
I am very prochoice and believe politicians and churches need to stay out of womens bodies. What really pisses me off most is that the people that like to scream about the sanctity of human life don't seem to give a shit about life after it's born. I think something is seriously fucked about their morals that they think it's not ok to have an abortion but they think it's fine to send people off to war, die of treatable medical conditions, live in impoverished conditions....the list could go on and on.
 
So-called "pro-lifers" are adorable. Against abortion, for the death penalty, for war, gun owners (that one is a generalization).

But yeah, I agree with most people here; abortion is a [biological] WOMAN'S decision. I just happen to think it's a good decision. Haha.
 
veggieguy12 said:
deven, perhaps you can help me understand your point of view: Why is having an abortion not considered "dealing with the consequences" of sex?
I don't get it; I think having an abortion IS a way of responsibly dealing with the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy.
It seems like you (and others) see 'being responsible' as limited to carrying to term and then birthing a child; what gives?

Arrow, thanks for sharing your story. Nobody needs to give personal details to explain her/his position, so your frankness is appreciated.
Click to expand...

I, personally don't believe in abortion. I'm not knockin' what others do. It is a choice. I just feel that if you knowingly have unprotected sex and get pregnant, then you should carry the baby and if you can't handle raising it, then adopt it out. I've said this before, other people want to have kids but can't. So, why have an abortion when someone else could give that child a good life and home? I knew this girl in high school who had quite a few abortions. And I just don't understand how you can get pregnant 5 times and abort them all and think thats its ok. I mean, where would you draw the line?
 
I understand why someone wouldn't want to have an abortion, even in a bad situation where it's in the fetus's best interest to terminate.

But I'm still pro-choice.

I don't claim to really have a strong moral opinion about this; I think it's an issue that has two sides and that's still open to a lot of debate.

I do know one thing though...

If you make something illegal, but it's still something that's relatively easy to, and that people want to do, people will still do it. But it will usually be more dangerous and unregulated.

When abortion was illegal before, we ended up with a lot of women injured and dying horrible painful deaths from botched abortions. For people who think human life above all else should be preserved, pro-lifers never seem to take this into account.

It's similar to the flaws in the "war on drugs." Don't snort coke because you don't know what it's cut with or if it's funding terrorists. Well if it was legal, we WOULD know those things.

Anyway...that's all.
 
well heres my standpoint: i'm pro-choice all the way. personally though, as long as it wasnt rape or from some disgraceful drunken night of accidental fucking, and i got pregnant from a guy i actually gave a fuck about then yeah, ide have the kid. but i'm not for abortions at all for myself. but i guess its easier for me because i dont require a "fuck" very often. Sex is great but i guess i'm one of those odd ones who actually has to care about someone before i indulge. although it disgusts me to know theres women out there having 10+ abortions in their life, fuck, its not my body so i could give a fuck less. i can definitely understand a younger girl getting prego on accident out of ignorance and getting an abortion or someone who just had a fucked up situation. but the women who piss me off are the ones who dont try to prevent getting prego at all and when they find out their pregnant are devastated and are like "i cant understand how this happened! he pulled out!" ....dumb dumb dumb. in their sense it should be illegal for them to even breed. to all is their own though.

as for herbal abortions and talk of how abortions have been around forever...yeah people have been getting abortions for a long time, but not nice ones. alot of women died from those and it wasnt herbal abortions either. it was bloody, painful, and involved unsanitary tools leading to either major blood loss or infection. and most of the time the women had absolutely no say in whether they wanted to keep the baby and were considered whores. as for herbal remedies, i wouldnt use those in a hundred years. every womens body is different and wont react the same to certain naturals. its a huge hazard. but i do have to say good job for trying to come up with an alternative. rant over.
 
Yeah, fuck using a coat hanger.

Although when Bush was president and I was worried Roe vs. Wade might get overturned, I made two of my friends promise to falcon punch me if I got pregnant.
 
I've wanted to learn more about herbal abortions, but I'm afraid that I'd seriously injure someone by fucking it up, so I haven't even bothered looking into it.

I'll stick to safer hobbies. Like, erm ... hm ...
 
devenheartbreak said:
I've said this before, other people want to have kids but can't.
So, why have an abortion when someone else could give that child a good life and home?
Click to expand...

If someone wants a child, but can't, they should adopt. I think that's what you were implying though.

There's not a shortage of children in adoption agencies, foster care homes, etc. I don't think that not getting an abortion so that someone else can raise a child is very logical. There will always be unwanted, abused, parentless kids out there for loving parents to adopt.

Then again, it's not as if parents who adopt are always saints. Abuse happens to adopted and fostered children as well. My view on this might be biased though, my sister was adopted and raised lovingly and I was friends with the "foster parents" of the year growing up.
 
Widerstand said:
What do you think then in cases where a rape took place, or the mothers life is in jeopardy?
Click to expand...

Me and Matt have had this discussion a bunch of times too.. And if rape is involved its still her choice. And I have no problem with abortion. I've said that a bunch of times. Its just not for me. And as far as complications giving birth, every woman have a 50/50 chance of dieing everytime she gives birth. But not everybody realizes that. Its a choice. I still think adoption is a better choice.
 
devenheartbreak said:
Me and Matt have had this discussion a bunch of times too.. And if rape is involved its still her choice. And I have no problem with abortion. I've said that a bunch of times. Its just not for me. And as far as complications giving birth, every woman have a 50/50 chance of dieing everytime she gives birth. But not everybody realizes that. Its a choice. I still think adoption is a better choice.
Click to expand...

bs nowdays, and even back then
 
According to the kind people at Yahoo Questions, that figure is incorrect.

What are the chances of a female dying during birth? - Yahoo! Answers


And, according to this, even in the 1600s, the highest the figure got was 1:8 in the woman's lifetime (including all births)

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/childbirth.cfm

Then there's this: "The U.S. maternal mortality rate rose to 13 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2004, according to statistics released this week by the National Center for Health Statistics."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/24/health/main3202083.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3202083

Although, apparently it is more likely to die during a Cesarean section than through squeezing it out..
 
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