what's with all these right-wing anarchists?

[plagueship]

i used to know some left-anarchists who thought they could dialogue with tea party/anarcho-capitalist/free state/etc types in such a way to draw them further into anti-authoritarianism as opposed to mere anti-statism. as much as i think a lot of the things that a lot of left anarchists are about are idiotic, it kind of almost makes my head explode when people won't stop talking about "liberty" and "freedom" and "voluntary societies" without "coercion", then turn around and say that property rights and the "free market" will make it all possible. what??? without police who will protect your property rights? you and your gun, i would imagine... but if so then you should stop kidding yourself that you're not practicing a form of coercion on anyone...

i would assume that like most other political activist groups/tendencies they like to make a lot of noise and give the impression they are more numerous and significant than they really are... still, when you think about how powerful the "tea party" is now (whether it's staying or not), and how any kind of radical leftist critique has dwindled away from mainstream society, shit gets creepy... these people are wicked dumb, they're all wound up about something or other, a lot of them seem to have guns, and their half-baked ideas seem to be spreading into all levels of american politics. or are they?

what do y'all think - are you seeing a lot of this BS out there in your travels across the US?

 

[bicycle]

neither left nor right..
people talk alot, as long as they keep talking nothing changes. so let them discuss " left or rightwing anarchism" as much as they want.

 

[Margarita]

Leftism and rightism are irrelevant to someone who embraces pure "anarchism". I'm not being purist or elitist by saying that, just stating a fact. Everyone has a right to live their life freely, without coercion, so long as they do not restrict the freedoms of others through coercion. That's the most fundamental statement I can think of to capture what I mean if I call myself an anarchist (and I hate doing that because people have their freaking preconceived notions about what anarchy is, based on the cultural propaganda of a violent and coercive society...) </precursor>

I think that anarcho-capitalism, as it is practised by so-called anarcho-capitalists, is an oxymoron. I guess right-wing "anarchists" can pull up the alternative definitions of anarchy, such as absence of government and law, to argue that they aren't being contradictory. "Lawlessness" or "lack of a leader" is the pure translation of anarchy, and combining that with the pure definition of capitalism, the terms are compatible. Of course that discounts that logical conclusion that having observed capitalism in effect for some time now, we've learned that, as a practice, it is incompatible with the anarchist ideals of freedom to do as you please, transforming it into the "freedom to do as you please, so long as you have the money," which isn't very free at all!

Talk and debate on terminology and dogma will never bring about change. But it can inspire new kinds of thinking that will lead to change on an individual level, which can lead to change on a global scale. If we never discussed our ideals and ideas, whether face-to-face or through books and zines, nobody would understand who we are, or what we believe.

 

[Missy]

It doesn't matter what group of people you are talking about republicans, democrats, anarchists, or traveler type. The majority of these people are just talk. They never do anything worth wild other then go on and on about thing.

Talk is cheap.

StP is no exception to that rule.

 

[drunken marauder]

So how is protecting what you have worked for or personal well being coercion??? Wouldnt the coercion be from the person there to steal life and liberty... I have a lot of right-wing Ideals... My father brother and a lot of other family members really embrace the whole teabag thing I don't really get it.. I was raised around the militia.... I get what they want and really want the same things.... Less government..... Tell me how commie-leftist with there shit ass healthcare and all this expand the government programs and a bunch of people telling you how to live... They are cutting medicare/medicaid so ridiculously it barely exists... How do I know cause I've been dealing with them for awhile now.. If state run healthcare is so great why do people who are from countries with state enforced healthcare come here for healthcare instead??? I think its good when you can go to the doctor when your pregnant or having a baby...

All this it takes a village shit is a crock of shit.. I don't need shit from them. I don't need them to tell me how to live and show me the way to do it...

I'm not an anarchist.. I'm not red or blue.. I dont need a gang and fuck your crew... What am I a fucking pirate. Live anarchy everyday.. Its in my head, I have morals that supersede law. Most of the time they are well with the "code of law" But I live by my morals my needs and desires.

Im all for people being richer than me. They can have a ferrari in the front and the lambo in back or what ever the gangsta needs.. They put the time into get it.. By any means neccisary... By hook or by crook..
Just cause you believe in anarchy doesnt mean you have to be a hater cause someone worked hard...
You haters are funny as hell most of you are crustfund kids in the curl up and die crew...
I dont know shit. I have no formal education and will never persue one in politacal science....
But I have had some hommies that got sick of the muderous bastards in the Murrah Federal building and we know how that worked out... Or how bout the ALF bombing at MSU that Dick Beard went down for from Pirate Law... No more animal testing at MSU since the 90's ugh I dont know.....

Coercion were Randy Weavers kids forcing there shit on any one??? How bout his wife and his dog??

 

[acrata4ever]

ghandi was an anarchist he was sucessful. REFUSE and RESIST. im all for the bakunist organised secret society if you cant beat them beat them at their own game. look like them dress like them go to town meetings. anarchy in america needs to be called something else to get away from the dreaded A word and its steriotypes. the internet and cellphones makes this possible. this is the 21st century this means change.

 

[plagueship]

really not what i was asking about. did you guys even read my post? i was wondering what people think about right-wing libertarianism/anarchism/minarchism taking off as a trend across the u.s. is it really a big thing? are they just talking a lot and posting on the internet?

i don't really want to get into a big debate about healthcare, but i'm not aware of large numbers of canadians coming here to get care. i also want to point out there is a big difference between the "individual mandate" approach of "obamacare"/romneycare, which requires every to carry insurance, and actual socialized medicine, in which the government directly provides healthcare to its citizens, which frankly as long as we have gov'ts, they might as well be fucking doing for us.

also while we're speaking of states, they're not a philosophical abstraction, they are a historical reality, and states as we know them were born alongside the capitalist era of economics, have always been part and parcel of the deal.

and finally just because i think it ought to be said, i can't believe your'e crying over some fucking nazi's dog one minute and the next, celebrating the murder of hundreds of innocent people including dozens of children in oklahoma city. that's just disgusting.

 

[drunken marauder]

well I dont know I think the government chooses to protect and insulate themselves with children.... How many daycare centers are in a gm plant..... So if you dont agree with peoples views its cool if the government shows up and slaughters them right... How many kids were burned to death in wacco.....

 

[drunken marauder]

Pry my gun out of my cold dead fingers.... Hmm you werent complaining about ALF there cool.... I dont know I'll be in the news someday.... Let someone else tell my story cause I'm sick of talking.......

 

[plagueship]

good, i'm sick of trying to make sense of your idiotic comments.
your picture seems like it fits you perfectly.

 

[drunken marauder]

I'd spell it for ya but I think I did.. I asked is it only wrong when the government murders people you agree with???

 

[shiftingGEARS]

attacking peoples character plagueship seems pretty idiotic, childish as well

 

[nivoldoog]

im starting a cult, with death rays and everything.

 

[plagueship]

i don't believe in right vs. wrong. i'm just saying if you want to use a word like coercion, which has an actual, specific definition - that is "to constrain someone's actions through force or the threat of force," not just to do so when drunkenmarauder think it's "wrong" - you should at least know what that word means and use it properly rather than just do toss it around for the sake of rhetoric.

shiftinggears, i'm glad you think i'm more of an idiot than this guy who admires the nazi mass murderer timothy mcveigh. really speaks to your intelligence and character as well.

so, does anyone want to talk about the question i posed in the original post? at all?

 

[shiftingGEARS]

The tea party is just an illusion, they makes people believe that citizens have a say in the "big scheme". Nothing more than just another bunch of puppets.

 

[drunken marauder]

Dude really you happen to be speaking of my family now a true saint. That said fuck an appeal..... Fuck ratting out my hommies.... A nazi???? Try a fucking sepratist How many Acts of domestic terrorism has the government carried out since then....
There's kids outside playing hopscotch and everybody knows this is the hot spot.... Lots of people use children to garnish sympathy why they slaughter people that are different and just want to be left alone..
And you said if someone protects there property they are threatening violence??? No when you come to my home to take it that is an implied threat.. When you show up cop crook who ever I am going to use my inalienable right to protect me and my family.. Your on my property/camp what ever.. I'm just doin my thing your the one impeding or threatening.. But you know what these fucking leftist commie fucks are trying to take free speech lots of shit... At least we dont judge brave crusaders for the rights of all... If you want to hide behind your children while you try and kill me... Well I guess my kids will have less people to worry about.

 

[acrata4ever]

im starting a cult, with death rays and everything.

The Hand of Inner Peace Human Resource Center (lets do online church charter tax free)

 

[CXR1037]

The tea party/anarchists/democrats/republicans/homosexuals/people of color/crimethinc/the black panthers/communists are just an illusion, they makes people believe that citizens have a say in the "big scheme". Nothing more than just another bunch of puppets.

fixed it for ya!

Anyway, I'm conflicted...when the Tea Party types were starting up I resonated with a lot of them, but now I think they're mostly out there. Nonetheless...

it kind of almost makes my head explode when people won't stop talking about "liberty" and "freedom" and "voluntary societies" without "coercion", then turn around and say that property rights and the "free market" will make it all possible. what??? without police who will protect your property rights? you and your gun, i would imagine... but if so then you should stop kidding yourself that you're not practicing a form of coercion on anyone...

Okay, this makes no sense to me. I don't see how property rights and the free market couldn't bring about liberty and freedom. Like, "I want liberty, I want the freedom to do what I want on my property."

I think most of these people with guns are pretty knowledgeable on the guns they have and aren't psychotic murderers. I don't see why you would need police to protect property rights...

still, when you think about how powerful the "tea party" is now (whether it's staying or not), and how any kind of radical leftist critique has dwindled away from mainstream society, shit gets creepy... these people are wicked dumb, they're all wound up about something or other, a lot of them seem to have guns, and their half-baked ideas seem to be spreading into all levels of american politics. or are they?

Unsuccessful troll. If the Tea Party is wicked dumb, so is every egg-sucking moron with a circle-A patch. I expect these kind of over-generalizations from myself, not from the other users of StP!

And again, what do guns have to do with anything?

what do y'all think - are you seeing a lot of this BS out there in your travels across the US?

The only BS I see in my travels comes when I run into punks.

 

[wokofshame]

Yeah here's my interpretation of most tea party supporter's political views
"My wife is nagging me, my kids are screaming, I'm losing my hair, all my money is going to taxes, I havent gotten a Beej in 10 years, i love shooting guns, i hate obama hes a closet muslim"

Less taxes. Who wants to pay taxes? Thats not really a political thing its more like personal, damn stop taking my money. Lets promise them MONEY and theyll vote for us. Of course. Oldest political tactic in the book. If someone paid me 500$ to vote for them i probably would.

Guns. Sweet. Fun. But what the fuck about drugs and abortions? You can't claim to be into freedom/less gov't and then selectively choose what you want to be legal. It complete bullshit. Lets legalize the shit I LIKE but not shit i don't like.

Basically theyre not anarchists and theyre being completely duped, the real financial support for the Tea Party is from billionaires like the Koch Bros and the Heritage Foundation's supporters

NO GODS NO MASTERS sarah palin is a wacko slut not even hot she should go back to being the shrink on the sopranos, also her retarded baby looks drugged heavily

 

[plagueship]

cxr if you'd read my actual post a little more carefully...

property rights are an idea that only holds water when it's enforced. the police are there to detract people from stealing things, if tomorrow there were no police you'd probably need a gun to protect your house/property/etc, so in a way armed property owners are standing in for police. but their social relations are still shaped by their relationship to production and their way of living. on a more broad scale, what about businesses? they need either the police or some kind of security force to prevent, say, the employees from looting their store or taking over their factory and operating it collectively or on some other form of organization, since there are so many more workers than owners/bosses. so now we're talking about at least some kind of corporate feudalism.

again i'm not defending leftists/anarchists, i just think this kind of capitalist utopianism is just as useless and hypothetical. the modern forms of economics and politics evolved hand in hand; you can't just have capitalism and take away the state anymore than you can just have the state (or the 'people's will' or whatever leftist/anarchist political form you want to imagine) and subtract capitalist economics. in either case all the rhetorical labels for ideas like 'liberty', 'property', etc become meaningless and we're really talking about the dispositions of people and things. thought experiments can be interesting but they make a delusional basis for politcial projects, don't you think?

anyway so all forms of political idealism being stupid, i'm just interested/disturbed by what seems to be a big current of capitalist anti-statism in the us. im not convinced it means much and i tend to think the overall global society is shifting in kind of a leftist way. i'm interested in what is happening not in approving or disapproving or taking sides about it, obviously i have my opinion...

this is really the wrong place for an objective discussion....