hi from a seattle suburbs kid

[christianarchy]

yeah..uh, this is an introduction to myself. my names christopher, im from redmond, which is 15 min from downtown seattle. its a realllly rich stupid place, where microsoft is from.

i am a christian anarchist, and i don't think the two conflict whatsoever.

i am a firm believer in nonviolence. i'm still living at home. i am trying to practice freeganism as much as possible, which has been hard with a broken leg. i love bicycles, fixed is my preference. i just got my drivers license, which is one of the most "real people" things i've done for quite some time, but hopefully i wont drive at all once i can ride a bike again. when i hit 18 this summer im planning to live in a trailer in georgetown//sodo (seattle), which may or may not constitute as squatting (it'd be parked in the woods or just on some old ignored alley or something). me and a lady are gonna get married, but not with all the legal stuff, just because that doesn't really matter to me. my main ways of practicing anarchism and empire resistence are freeganism, veganism, music, art, DIY, conservation, educating people, and being a nice person. i'm wanting to do more as far as food not bombs, anti war activism, ELF, giving away free stuff, wheat pasting, and writing. im excited to start squatting and traveling either by hopping or hitching. i wanna see a lot of places. i wanna meet a lot of people and teach people about an alternative to empire.

for me, anarchism's primary goal is "the abolition of exploitation of man by man" (guerin quote, although I only got halfway through his introduction to anarchism). i love people, love the earth, and hate injustice and ignorance. i wish people didn't settle for all the shittyness in the world, from sweatshops to throwing away food, and i wish people didnt think there is no alternative.

this intros kinda a bummer. i realy like having fun to, which i do a lot without drinking or drugs. im xvx i guess, but i try not to be an XVX douche? im actually prolegalization, its just not for me. alcohol can be pretty stupid sometimes, but still..i'm proud to say that these arent me..

gosh that tattoo..camo and everything..how much worse could it get?

i really do like video games, and star wars, and i kinda nerd out on that stuff. i really like mario kart and al the metroids and mario and lots of old games. and nerdy rpgs. video games with friends is fun and shows are fun and i really like to have fun!

gosh this is way to long, dont know why you would ave read so far..
but i like dystopia and iron lung and hail seizures and abandon ship and mewithoutyou and psalters and sleep and nux vomica and a lottttttttta other bands. on vinyl or tape mostly.

okay fuck this is way tooooo long, im stopping, i quit, its over, goodbye.


:soldier: i hate smilies but metal slug is sick.

-christopher

 

[goldilocks]

Welcome! and good luck.

 

[st1tch]

Are you just a Christian who happens to be into anarchy? Or do the 2 connect somehow?

Either way, welcome to the site and I'm interested to see your views on everything!

 

[christianarchy]

the two are very relevant, jesus was persecuted for being against violence and gov't and wealth and class gaps and racial/sexist barriers.
"no one can serve to masters" -jesus in matthew 6:24
which is funny because most christians of today "serve God" but also serve the gov't through taxes, voting, taking place in gov't, serving in the army, and american flags. the cross and the flag are reallllllly incompatible though, which you wouldn't be able to guess by looking at the current state (pun!) of organized religion.

a really cool outline to christian anarchism was written by tolstoy later in his life called the kingdom of god is within you, if your interested. but there are shorter reads too with similar content haha.

"mixing the church and state is like mixing ice cream and cow manure. it may not do much to the manure, but it sure messes up the ice cream." - tony campolo

 

[st1tch]

the two are very relevant, jesus was persecuted for being against violence and gov't and wealth and class gaps and racial/sexist barriers.
"no one can serve to masters" -jesus in matthew 6:24
which is funny because most christians of today "serve God" but also serve the gov't through taxes, voting, taking place in gov't, serving in the army, and american flags. the cross and the flag are reallllllly incompatible though, which you wouldn't be able to guess by looking at the current state (pun!) of organized religion.

a really cool outline to christian anarchism was written by tolstoy later in his life called the kingdom of god is within you, if your interested. but there are shorter reads too with similar content haha.

"mixing the church and state is like mixing ice cream and cow manure. it may not do much to the manure, but it sure messes up the ice cream." - tony campolo

That's cool man. I'm by no means Christian, but I was raised on basic Christian morals, which I've always thought were fairly reasonable.

That is a great quote by the way.

 

[Apples]

Welcome. Glad you dont actually have that camo tattoo.

 

[st1tch]

Welcome. Glad you dont actually have that camo tattoo.

Yes, that is quite possibly the lamest tattoo I've ever seen.

 

[veggieguy12]

Well, I'd like to note that I come from a pacifist background, so while I was never faithful, I would say I'm highly versed in Dorothy Day, AJ Muste, Jesus, Tolstoy, MLK, Gandhi, Thoreau, Plowshares, the Berrigan Bros., Ray Bourgeois, etc.
Their rationale and argumentation is mostly solid, and pacifism itself is pretty admirable and courageous and fearless. I find this impressive at the least, it's what motivated me to follow suit for years.

The reason I'm no longer a pacifist is that it would bother me more to let damage be done to the world than to do damage to a destructive person.
I realized that Civilization is imperiling the planet, bringing about mass extinctions. And it won't stop by persuasion, only force. Non-violence IS force, but peaceful force, requiring mass action and widespread awareness. I don't think we have the time for that route, setting aside the important question of whether or not we even have the means (funds, participants, propaganda outreach, targets we can succeed against, etc.).

I came see that if any people or plants or animals are alive in the future, they won't hold against us the fact that the polluters of Dow Chemical Co. may have been killed, or that there's no more electricity because coal mining and oil pumping have ceased. Our descendants won't be bothered by the means we utilized to preserve Earth for their habitat; they will simple be glad that not every tiger (or rhino or gorilla or shark or whale or redwood or owl or penguin or swordfish or roach or rat or wolf or bison or fern or coral reef or mountain or swamp or delta or river) was not eradicated because we did anything necessary to defend these Earth-neighbors of ours.

I'd rather feel bad down the line about hurting someone who was destructive to the planet and thus the future, than I would feel bad about not having done enough (anything I can) to stop it. In a wasteland of a world, all the nobility of my moral code won't mean a thing. Similarly, all the cool gadgets and trinkets and conveniences (Xbox, iPod, Internet, refrigerators) will not be enough to salve my conscience. But if I'm feeling guilty about anything, I think seeing a regrowing forest or wild pandas will do just fine.

On the other topic of religion, you gotta admit you're kinda cherry-picking the Bible and the tales of Jesus, right? I mean, a lot has been attributed to him, such as Matthew 10:34, for one.
Moreover, if you say you feel God's presence, that's beyond debate - I just gotta accept that. And one of my only mentors is also a very faithful (but not dogmatic or fundamentalist) former Episcopal priest, and he says this. AND he acknowledges that there is no evidence for the existence of anything immortal, omnipotent and omnipresent, existing beyond the universe and before everything else.
And of course, the stories of Jesus could be fabricated wholecloth, there is absolutely no way to verify any of his legend. It is generally accepted that there was a traveling, preaching Jew, performing magic and healings (a common thing in that era), and challenging the Jewish leadership and eventually executed by the Romans. This is not unarguable, 100% fact; it's quite possible that the famous Jesus of Nazareth never existed.

At the very least, God exists but doesn't care enough about our plight to intervene on the side of justice, God is not compassionate enough to stop tragedies and misery - the result of things God setup (tornadoes, volcanoes, earthquakes, floods). It could be even worse, God could actively be aiding atrocities like Rwanda, the Armenian Holocaust, the Nazi regime, the Khmer Rouge, the Japanese Imperial Army, Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
I have to wonder why anyone would worship such a creature.

I suppose I'm asking for your perspective and how this positively motivates you toward a similar position as my own. And I guess that my point here is: Won't we all be better-served by acting on what makes our lives possible, what is in our faces in a very real, indisputable way?

 

[christianarchy]

I too am familiar with Dorothy Day, MLK, Gandhi, Thoreau (dumpstered a copy of Walden, actually), and Tolstoy, among others, but I'd definetly like to check out the rest also. My "to read" list is already really long but I'll put their names on it!

As for your reasoning for not considering yourself a pacifist anymore, I can very much understand where you're coming from. I've thought similarly before and still do get in such moods, because sometimes the world just seems so fucked up that it seems unreasonable to have a pacifist moral code when everythings in such an awful state.

In a wasteland of a world, all the nobility of my moral code won't mean a thing.

I've been there, and I'm still there a lot. But I guess my belief in some sort of life after death (I really have no idea what it will be like, that's something that I struggle with a lot) makes me somewhat confident that even if we think that nonviolence won't change the world as much as we would with violence, striving for change without embracing violence yourself is worth something. That doesn't really make a lot of sense...I'll try my hardest to explain. Forgive me for not being great at writing.

In his work (which I'd highly recommend), Christian anarchist/pacifist Shane Claiborne talks about how the things that deceive mankind the most aren't the most obviously evil things, but the seemingly good things. "It's the beautiful things that get us. Perhaps the greatest seduction is not the ANTI-GOD, but the ALMOST - GOD." This makes a lot of sense when you see the church getting involved in the state because their mission of "bringing people the good news" is a lot easier when "christian values" can be enforced through the state's power. To them, they are attracted to the things that seem logical, the "Almost-God" things.

But I think this is true in a nonreligious context too. Keep in mind the reason so many people agree with U.S. occupation of the middle east is because we are "bringing peace" to those countries through the use of force (I'm not saying this is the government's actual intentions, but this is what many people believe we are trying to accomplish). Most people aren't inclined to murder, but the use of military force is justified because it will bring about a greater good.

The flaw in this logic (other than the fact that the U.S. is there to serve it’s own interests unlike what many people believe) is that the measures taken to bring about the greater good involve embodying evil, and not showing grace, mercy, or patience, but instead relying on money, brute force, and technology. How can we create peace with violence? Leading by example is a very core Christian value, in my opinion, so it doesn’t really make sense how so many can followers of Christ justify violence while “hating war.”

This is the more logical side of my reasons for pacifism. Violence can be deceiving and has deceived so many because it seems like a way to make a change. But I think if history has taught us anything, it is that violence doesn’t rid the world of violence. Because humankind is flawed, and if we respond with missiles and not grace, then we lose our own integrity in the process of trying to bring about this peace.

It’s not always easy for me to understand this, but this is where I stand most of the time.

But for me pacifism is very emotional too. Because it is such a tragedy that the destruction of our planet has come so close because CEO’s and presidents and society’s top elite put their own interests first, but how much more of a tragedy is it that these people (as awful as they may be) don’t see the value and importance in nature? These people are missing out.

And that’s what nonviolence is inspired by – the desire not only to get rid of evil in the world, but to save the people furthering that evil in the process.

MLK puts it best, as I’m sure you have read before:

Somehow we must be able to stand up against our most bitter opponents and say: “We shall match your capacity to inflict suffering by our capacity to endure suffering. We will meet your physical force with soul force. Do to us what you will and we will still love you.... But be assured that we’ll wear you down by our capacity to suffer, and one day we will win our freedom. We will not only win freedom for ourselves; we will appeal to your heart and conscience that we will win you in the process, and our victory will be a double victory.”

As misanthropic as I can be, when it comes down to it I love people too much to see anyone suffer, even If it’s the worst dictator in the world of a selfish CEO or whatever. Every one of us is so flawed, and if we are to punish each other where do we draw the line for who gets punished? None of us can be perfect and no human has a right over anyone else (to me, a principle that Christianity and anarchism share). Killing a murderer doesn’t make one less murderer in the world. Showing love, grace, and compassion does.

As for my cherry picking of the Bible, I agree. I cannot understand a lot of the Bible. And this is something I struggle with. As for Matthew 10:34 specifically, I think it is important to look at it in the context of Jesus’s world. People wanted a solution to their grievances, just as people do today. But they wanted Jesus to fix all of their problems, to make everything the way they wanted it to be. And I think Jesus saw that it couldn’t be, because society’s problems cannot be fixed until people’s hearts are softened. He saw that His way – of nonviolence, endless compassion and loving your enemies, of sharing without hesitation, wasn’t going to sound too great to the rich, or the political elite, or the slave owners, or the tax collectors, or those that benefited from war, or those that held grudges or had debts owed to them. Jesus wasn’t bringing the kind of peace that the world expected, the kind of world that our world is striving towards today, but He was bring a whole new kind of peace, and people weren’t going to like it. Also in the chapter right next to verse 34 He was talking about how families would be split apart because of Him – there would be disputes over His teachings and following the path of nonviolence and enemy-love wouldn’t be popular. The fact that the word sword is used is very strange to me – I would be interested to see if a different term were used in the scripture’s original language and version. Anyways, that has been my personal interpretation of Matthew 10:34 for quite some time now, and I don’t expect you to adopt it but would like you to know how I still associate Christianity and nonviolent anarchism in consideration verses like that. I do feel like if Jesus were talking about advocating violence in that verse, He wouldn’t of later said in verse in Chapter 26 verse 52 "Put your sword back in its place…for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” (NIV)

And I know that’s not the only one that's confusing or could seem to advocate violence. There are a lot of verses that I have difficulty understanding. But I think overall the Bible’s message is about forgiveness, love, nonviolence, and equality, and if you read and meditate on it enough, that becomes clear. As a side note, I think sustainability needs to be a lot higher up on the typical Christian’s agenda.

I think if you were to suggest the fabrication of much scripture, you gotta also recognize that a lot of history could be fabricated too. Based on the current ways of asserting the validity of historical stories, characters, or even civilizations, there is actually a good amount of evidence supporting His existence, relative to how much we have on other historical figures. But I think you do recognize this, and Jesus' existence isn’t 100% unarguable fact, I wouldn’t claim that either. I personally do believe He existed and associate God with Him, but I think believing in His the aforementioned message of forgiveness, nonviolence and equality is just as, if not more, important.

Although it is easy to see injustice in the world as the apathy of God towards mankind, I think it’s more than that. I believe that we have free will and that God won’t stop these atrocities from happening, but when we turn towards community, humility, and love rather than violence, punishment, and vengeance we can overcome such things as God desires. I really cannot say because I am not God (kind of how some children can't understand their parents wisdom), but personally I believe that things work towards good. This has been a struggle for me, having been hit by a truck and nearly killed two months ago today, even though I was riding my bike in protest of war, environmental destruction, slavery, and gluttony (something that I felt like God was okay with me doing), and now me probably being held responsible for the accident (I won't get into it but it's basically bullshit). But I can still firmly say that I believe things work for the good. It’s so hard to explain…it is just a firm belief I have that I will never be able to prove. I don’t want to leave it at that, but I hope that you are able to witness things working for good in your life, because good things do happen. I know this world’s fucking awful, and that injustice is widespread, but it only makes the call for another world more and more urgent, and thank you for being someone who’s doing something about it. And it’s a really good thing that you answer questions like these, I feel like even people with more atheistic views can agree that most people don’t think about or consider things of a spiritual nature enough.

Also, I’m sorry for all the “church people” that are destroying this world. I’m a really big screw-up too. I just feel like that is important to say whenever I talk about my faith – I am sorry that followers of Christ, myself included, make some really big mistakes sometimes. Forgive us.

-Christopher

 

[veggieguy12]

That's no brief quip you've given there; your efforts are appreciated.
You'd probably enjoy chatting with member RnJ, if you haven't yet found him on here.

 

[sweet potatoe]

hey chris its colin, im really glad you finally got on this, its strange cuz wev known each other for quite a while but i actually did learn alot about you from this, congradultioans on th "marriage" decision shes fuckn awesome fer you

 

[macks]

It is nice to hear from a 'believer' so to speak who seems to have a level head and some well thought out ideas!

Welcome to the site, look forward to reading your posts!


wait, that back tat isn't yours right?

 

[Vinyl LP]

It's cool that your a straight edge vegan. I am trying to go from vegetarian to vegan but honestly its to the point that I'm so broke that when I'm offered a free meal such as a slice of cheese pizza I just go for it because I can't be choosy in my current situation. This is why I wanted to do guerrilla gardening, so wherever I go there's a place to get free veggies.

 

[christianarchy]

It's cool that your a straight edge vegan. I am trying to go from vegetarian to vegan but honestly its to the point that I'm so broke that when I'm offered a free meal such as a slice of cheese pizza I just go for it because I can't be choosy in my current situation. This is why I wanted to do guerrilla gardening, so wherever I go there's a place to get free veggies.

dude, i've dumpstered so much vegetarian but not vegan stuff, i just try not to buy a lot of it. it's a process, but just making efforts towards veganism is pretty rad. i actually went straight to vegan, but have had some not very strict phases. guerrilla/urban gardening are the way to go.
when i'm living with no money this summer it'll probably be really tough to be vegan, and i'll feel what your going through. but the effort your making is rad. do you dumpster much food?

 

[wartomods]

welcome

i am a christian anarchist

I stop reading here

 

[christianarchy]

I stop reading here

so would most christians =)

 

[Monkeywrench]

Though I'm not a Christian, and consider "Anarcho-Christians" to be the most likely FBI informants, I'll welcome you anyway.

I would also suggest that maybe this website isn't the most appropriate place to be talking about the ELF?

 

[LeilaniRose]

I may be a bit late, but welcome

 

[christianarchy]

Though I'm not a Christian, and consider "Anarcho-Christians" to be the most likely FBI informants, I'll welcome you anyway.

Haha, if i worked for the fbi i probably wouldn't make myself stick out like that. or maybe i would for reverse psychology...i'm just digging myself a hole aren't i? just saying this could make me more suspicious..and that..

I would also suggest that maybe this website isn't the most appropriate place to be talking about the ELF?

ELF's actions have been kinda hit or miss for me. I'm only recently starting to learn about them and my opinions change, and I won't be conspiring in your forums or anything haha, but I am looking forward to discussing the ethics of their actions with people here.

I definetly should have put "environmental direct action" as what i wanted to do more of, i apologize, and I am still learning about ELF and can agree with some of their actions but disagree with just as many.
Just looking forward to learning about them and discussing them and stuff =)

 

[Monkeywrench]

I'm only recently starting to learn about them.

I figured as much. ELF is currently considered to be the #1 domestic terror threat in the US. To talk about them on a site where sensitive things like tips on catching out, CC's, and squat locations are discussed is just kind of a bad idea.