I am not sure how I would feel about that actually . . . the value of anything achieved through segregation is dubious at best. Maybe I would prefer increased dialogue in general? Not a hundred percent certain on this point mind you, I just have an uneasy premonition that the addition of a separate queer oriented forum might turn the rest of the site by default into a heteronormative wasteland (i.e. "I'm moving this topic into the queer forum").
Sort of smacks of banishment, to me. Not that I'm entirely against it; maybe it could be done properly... as I said, just something to think about.
A hearty "hear hear" to the rest of it though.
Hahahaha couldnt have said it better myself. I'm not at all against gays, but this isn't a forum for anything like that, its a travelers community not travelers segregation forum. If you want that type of seperation, go to tribe or something.
Yeah, some people are assuming that just because we're travelers and squatters that we don't know about that stuff already. And while being an ally is nice, being a good friend is much better. But if you've been around enough, you'll realize that people are people, whose genders, sexual preferences and identities are pretty much fluid to one degree or another.
A section for identity politics and related topics could definitely be useful, making more room for discussion instead of just commentary about that. Also some crimethinc related threads might be able to hide there to escape the wastebin.
Also, the amount of traveler kids and punks who are either 'not-that-political' or are just regular kids who don't give a fuck about anything disappoints me all the time.
Also, the amount of traveler kids and punks who are either 'not-that-political' or are just regular kids who don't give a fuck about anything disappoints me all the time.
I dont want to stretch the page so i wont quote the Rstanks post .. call me names, etc, whatever you want, but here goes the rant. Seriously why should i be tollerant or intollerant for race, age, creed, gender, orientation, etc... who defines if i should or shouldn't be tollerant ? Do i loose "punk points" if im homosexual intollerant?
Most of the lines that you have posted looks to me like :
1. Approach the cat slowly.
2. Pet the cat slowly.
3. If you wont pet the cat slowly it will explode. BOOOM
For me everything looks pretty random and like you have just stumbled upon this issue and you are very frustrated about sharing this information "in your own words" with others.. ehhh What if i would educate you about how "trannys destroys marriage"
EDIT : Widerstand posted my thoughts first...
Most of the lines that you have posted looks to me like :
1. Approach the cat slowly.
2. Pet the cat slowly.
3. If you wont pet the cat slowly it will explode. BOOOM
For me everything looks pretty random and like you have just stumbled upon this issue and you are very frustrated about sharing this information "in your own words" with others.. ehhh What if i would educate you about how "trannys destroys marriage"
EDIT : Widerstand posted my thoughts first...
-10 punk points, booohooo, i think ill need to make a mohawk out of a wig and wear it tommorow.
Rememberusername, I agree with the sentiment in your post, except for the part about "have fun hating people".
It's easy to say that when racist/hetrosexist/ect. shit doesn't put YOU in danger physically (I don't know anything about you, maybe it does maybe it doesn't). But even if that is the case, it's our responsibility to make the world/country/region/culture/subculture/scene/party a safer place for our friends and loved ones.
Thats part of why the reason I get so fed up with people who are so close to doing something useful or helpful to their community (or, actually helping to form a community) but they just don't. They just sit around and react to a post about somebody trying to have themselves or their friends feel safer and less like outcasts with comments with the perceived (by me) attitude of "so what if I am an intolerant shithead, get yr queer shit off of my forum".
Hm... I apologize for sounding a bit incoherant and pissed.. it's just because I'm pissed.
It's easy to say that when racist/hetrosexist/ect. shit doesn't put YOU in danger physically (I don't know anything about you, maybe it does maybe it doesn't). But even if that is the case, it's our responsibility to make the world/country/region/culture/subculture/scene/party a safer place for our friends and loved ones.
Thats part of why the reason I get so fed up with people who are so close to doing something useful or helpful to their community (or, actually helping to form a community) but they just don't. They just sit around and react to a post about somebody trying to have themselves or their friends feel safer and less like outcasts with comments with the perceived (by me) attitude of "so what if I am an intolerant shithead, get yr queer shit off of my forum".
Hm... I apologize for sounding a bit incoherant and pissed.. it's just because I'm pissed.
rememberusername said:
Ehh just as i supposed, neither of you two (or more if someone else posts while im writing this post) did see that im being sarcastic in my first post. Im pretty much tolerant with everything, as long as it isn't a threat to me or my friends, but thats the different story. I wrote that, because i don't like than somebody tries to put up their ways/ideals/views etc as correct ones for everybody.
You say that we are childish, or that i am losing in life for "being intolerant", well from other point of view you are being intolerant to me, because im intolerant to homosexuals(as i explained before, it was sarcasm... im just flowing along with flame wars to point out my point of view), so you are loosing in life too? People who go and say "You should be tolerant for those kind or those kind of people" ar as bad as people who say "You should be INtolerant for those kind of those kind of people" there is a freedom of speech and knowledge, but for me its wrong to try and put something into someones head (be polite with these people, dont make fun out of those people, etc..), everybody chooses their way/view of life...
I respect what you are trying to say, and I have heard your argument before.
However, being intolerant of intolerance (especially when it perpetuates an attitude that puts yourself or loved ones in danger) is different than being intolerant.
It's called self-defense and to equate it to hetrosexist attitudes is an extremely flawed argument.
I do like how you responded this time though, if you want to continue this through PMs, I am open to that. I don't want to monopolize this thread.
Kk, you can PM me or i'll Pm you later, cause its 2am Wednesday and im going to sleep or else my head will explode like a cat ...
Rstank, I really glad that you posted this. transgendered folks and gender identity are really confusing concepts to grasp for most people, and as someone who had a lot of confusion with thier gender identity, I have to say that it helps A LOT to have just one person to talk to about it, let alone a support group of allies. I think that homophobia and transphobia are two different animals, as there are quite a few people in the gay scene who are transphobic (something that I don't get).
I look forward to your posts in the future. maybe we can start a queer social group!
I look forward to your posts in the future. maybe we can start a queer social group!
I think this could be a very useful thread if cleaned up a bit. I wasn't put off by the language, but I can understand how people could misconstrue things.
The "format" Rstank used is standard ally-speak of anything. It is meant for people who are looking for unique insight into whatever perspective. It's great for a site on feminism, cisgender, etc. That being said, it isn't the best tone to use on a traveling forum. While most people here probably agree with you, they might see this as condescending. IE: omg time to educate you 4narchists lolol.
A better approach could be something like "Hey, I know a lot of you are into the whole equality thing and are interested in other perspectives. Just thought I'd offer some personal insights about X." That would probably get a positive reception.
Thank you for posting this though. Transgendered people face obstacles that most people would never even think of. Don't believe me? Consider such simple matters as obtaining a driver's license, acquiring health insurance coverage, or passing a background check. Now imagine how much of a nightmare these things must be for transgendered people.
Godz I sound like a parent.
Oh and PS, I really wouldn't use the word "tranny" in a post intended for allies...
The "format" Rstank used is standard ally-speak of anything. It is meant for people who are looking for unique insight into whatever perspective. It's great for a site on feminism, cisgender, etc. That being said, it isn't the best tone to use on a traveling forum. While most people here probably agree with you, they might see this as condescending. IE: omg time to educate you 4narchists lolol.
A better approach could be something like "Hey, I know a lot of you are into the whole equality thing and are interested in other perspectives. Just thought I'd offer some personal insights about X." That would probably get a positive reception.
Thank you for posting this though. Transgendered people face obstacles that most people would never even think of. Don't believe me? Consider such simple matters as obtaining a driver's license, acquiring health insurance coverage, or passing a background check. Now imagine how much of a nightmare these things must be for transgendered people.
Godz I sound like a parent.
Oh and PS, I really wouldn't use the word "tranny" in a post intended for allies...
Made my day
rememberusername said:
Ill try to film and upload video to youtube of an exploding cat if i'll ever encounter one.
My point indeed ...
Back to the topic about tolleration, helping each other out, etc...
Different people come from differenct backgrounds/countries/continents and their view on everything is formed in the early years by the view of society/parents/educational system and if the intolerant view is formed strong enough there is only 1 to 100000 chance that their views will ever change on the subject of matter. For example here in Lithuania, we only got our freedom and got to know western culture on 1991 03 11, before that there were no homosexuals, no transgenders etc (well there maybe was but they were hiding it from society) because the soviet union knew everything, even "what are you doing in bed under the blanket". So if a homosexual person would have been caught he would have been put up to a mental institution or so. And this thing lasted for 50years, so in 50 years our grandparents got their view that being queer is BAD, our parents go the view that homosexuality is BAD, and we got our brains washed from early age that its BAD. Not many tried to look "deeper" into the whole thing and get to know everything better, but 95% of lithuanians thinks homosexuality is bad. If you would say that you are gay out loud in the public, people of age 30+ would just think "queer"... but people 15-25years old would smack you in the face with no questions asked. And advocating for sexual minorities "Being GAY is OK" etc.. (you got the point) or trying to educate them that it isn't queer, thats just how the nature goes, makes them more angrier and more intollerant. So in here situation is that "YOU CAN'T BLOW AGAINST THE WIND"...
To add to that, in here, in russia, in poland swear words such as Pydar, Pedik, Pedal, Petuch (all means homosexual) are the strongest curse words, if you want to pick up an instant fight, call someone these words...
Komjaunimas, it´s interesting to hear where you are coming from, but I disagree with your analysis that there is a ¨1 in 100 000 chance that they will change their minds¨.
The attitude you are describing is generally based on nothing more than ignorance.
I don´t mean that to sound insulting, I just mean that the people most outraged by homosexuality are those who know the least about it.
A lot of people who casually display homophobic behaviour, once they actually meet a gay person at work, in their family, wherever, they are at first curious and then they begin to care a whole lot less about other people´s sexuality because it´s no longer some scary, unknown thing.
This is why it is important to talk about it, so that people can get used to the idea and stop making such a big fuss about it.
Rstank, the negative intro to your post bugged me too. The info and this discussion are pertinent to stp and I hope you post what you got, but maybe keep in mind rule number 1 of what you posted: ¨don´t assume...¨
The attitude you are describing is generally based on nothing more than ignorance.
I don´t mean that to sound insulting, I just mean that the people most outraged by homosexuality are those who know the least about it.
A lot of people who casually display homophobic behaviour, once they actually meet a gay person at work, in their family, wherever, they are at first curious and then they begin to care a whole lot less about other people´s sexuality because it´s no longer some scary, unknown thing.
This is why it is important to talk about it, so that people can get used to the idea and stop making such a big fuss about it.
Rstank, the negative intro to your post bugged me too. The info and this discussion are pertinent to stp and I hope you post what you got, but maybe keep in mind rule number 1 of what you posted: ¨don´t assume...¨
depends on the conversation. In discussing deviation from the sexual status quo in Lithuania, I´ll bet they face a lot of the same challenges.