Starting a Nation

[NocturnalJoe]

Am looking for people who are seriously interested, to maybe join with me and make it a reality.

 

[Thrasymachus]

If a nation could only exist by being born there, then the U.S. would have never came to be.

Yes, that is a great example, a nation founded on imperialism, genocide and all other manner of crimes. Good luck on powerless hippy types following the American model...

 

[Traveler]

Uhhh...... NNNNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!
From the very source you gave:


It has barely been around for months, it has huge sprawling territory but a puny population of five according to the very source you gave. It definitely looks like a project that will never amount to much besides updating some wikis with contact info that no-one will be able to reach like almost all such projects.

It's older than a day and Japan hasn't taken it back. That's a success in my book.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Apparently your book is one of fiction... You don't even know if the Japanese state even knows about it, but then again I doubt you even read the wiki you Googled up before posting it to us.

Alot of even wiki communes are "just starting" and yet you cannot contact many or most of them and they have far less ambitious goals than starting some artificial nation. Yet you are so quick to believe some chimera you only know through a wiki and advertise it as a success without reading it.

 

[Traveler]

Just because you don't like the statistics doesn't mean that what that man did isn't a success.

 

[autumn]

Relevant and hilarious:

The Conch Republic (República de la Concha) is a micronation declared as a tongue-in-cheek secession of the city of Key West, Florida from the United States on April 23, 1982.
On September 20, 1995, it was reported that the 478th Civil Affairs Battalion of the United States Army Reserve was to conduct a training exercise simulating an invasion of a foreign island. They were to land on Key West and conduct affairs as if the islanders were foreign. However, no one from the 478th notified Conch officials of the exercise.

Seeing another chance at publicity, Wardlow and the forces behind the 1982 Conch Republic secession mobilized the island for a full-scale war (in the Conch Republic, this involved firing water cannons from fireboats and hitting people with stale Cuban bread), and protested to the Department of Defensefor arranging this exercise without consulting the City of Key West. The leaders of the 478th issued an apology the next day, saying they "in no way meant to challenge or impugn the sovereignty of the Conch Republic", and submitted to a surrender ceremony on September 22.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic

 

[autumn]

Oh, and if you want to see an example of a micronation that worked out, look no further than Freetown Christiania

 

[sketchytravis]

lolwat? i wanna see how this one pans out for ya man, good luck

 

[Odin]

Conch republic was on a list of micronations I read somewhere but Freetown Christiania is a new one. Interesting too. Thanks.

Matt. We need to get this going. An STP micronation. ::cigar::

 

[Kim Chee]

I'm not saying the micronation thing can't happen. I don't think there will be a problem unless:

You don't pay your taxes
You don't lay down your arms when invaded
You don't keep the mailman from delivering U.S. mail
You don't obey federal or state laws

I live on an Indian Reservation and the tribe governs themselves. However, Federal law still prevails here. I seeum FBI here all the time. I don't think you'll ever achieve true sovereignty while within the borders of the U.S. (if anybody deserves it more than American Natives I'd like to hear about it). I'll be convinced that you have been successful when you renounce citizenship, arm your citizens to defend yourselves against your oppressors, hold elections, make your own laws and stand on your own without assistance from the Fed or State Govt.

 

[Kim Chee]

...so if this ever gets off the ground, I'd like to be your token idiot.

 

[tobepxt]

I have always loved the idea of micro nations.

 

[NocturnalJoe]

I am not doing a micro nation >.< I do know the law of nations and international law.

 

[Kim Chee]

I am not doing a micro nation >.< I do know the law of nations and international law.

Not knockin' your knowledge of the "law of nations" or "international law". Will the Government whose borders you reside within know and recognize those laws as well?

I clicked on your website and it says it is unavailable.
http://www.rawtube.info/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

Is there a difference between a "micro nation" and what you have in mind?
Also, why would several people need to be involved? Is that a legal requirement or just a preference? In the good old days people simply took land by force or purchased it and it was theirs to do as they pleased (made laws, etc.). You say that this has been done before they way you mention. In the U.S.? Can you provide examples?

I repeat:
I don't think there will be a problem unless:
You don't pay your taxes
You don't lay down your arms when invaded
You don't keep the mailman from delivering U.S. mail
You don't obey federal or state laws

 

[NocturnalJoe]

My websites are suspended, gotta call the hosting company on Monday. Some paperwork is on my websites. In law there is a huge difference between a nation vs a micro nation. As for how many people are required, it can be as little as 3. Multiple people are needed so in law there is a body. There are some lawful requirements that need to be met. I plan on showing people how to do this stuff step by step, as I am doing the steps myself. As for the U.S. Government, if things are done properly, you would be outside their jurisdiction and therefore out of their laws. But not outside the law of nations and international law.

 

[Kim Chee]

I found a wiki on "seasteading" which some may find interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

Not sure if it belongs here or should get its own thread. Seems like that by being in international waters, you eliminate some problems all while taking on a shitload of others (along with raising your profile 10x). Just an idea, as bad as it is maybe there is something useful to glean.

 

[Margin Walker]

From one settler to another, this nation, like all nations, is an occupying force on traditional indigenous lands. Check yourself.

 

[Kim Chee]

You don't build a community, a tribe or a nation, either you are born into one or you aren't. So many people have failed with so many different communes and intentional communities using every permutation possible.

This is the same self-defeating attitude which makes change impossible.




"...others have failed, therefore I will not try."
Thrasymachus

 

[Thrasymachus]

No, I am just a realist who likes living on the ground on Planet Earth. I don't like believing in unrealistic fantasies. The thread starter is a bs-er who kept repeating and repeating and "I studied law and international law, I am expert, trust me, you can start your own micro-nation in the most powerful nation-state, the USA and get away with it." Yet he never demonstrated any real expertise or gave any evidence or examples. Even the real conquered nations who allegedly have local autonomy and treaty rights, don't have much power and have to obey federal law, as you yourself posted. This is how they are doing:

SPOTLIGHT ON SPECIAL POPULATIONS: American Indians and Alcohol (PDF)

... In a review of existing data, May and Moran (1995), for instance, cited the rate of alcohol-related deaths for Indian men as 26.5 percent of all deaths and the rate for women as 13.2 percent. ...

The US government and the ruling elites are not some love and peace hippies, despite what some in this thread like to believe, they destroy all their enemies and perceived rivals.

The US government is so organized in crushing mass movements, that time and time again it has been proven that roughly 1 in 6 protesters are agent provocateurs:

OCCUPY: Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States.

...

How many agents or infiltrators can we expect to see inside a movement? One of the most notorious “police riots” was the 1968 Democratic Party Convention. Independent journalist Yasha Levine writes: “During the 1968 protests of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which drew about 10,000 protesters and was brutally crushed by the police, 1 out of 6 protesters was a federal undercover agent. That’s right, 1/6th of the total protesting population was made up of spooks drawn from various federal agencies. That’s roughly 1,600 people! The stat came from an Army document obtained by CBS News in 1978, a full decade after the protest took place. According to CBS, the infiltrators were not passive observers, monitoring and relaying information to central command, but were involved in violent confrontations with the police.” [Emphasis in original.]

Peter Camejo, who ran for Governor of California in 2003 as a Green and as Ralph Nader’s vice president in 2004, often told the story about his 1976 presidential campaign. Camejo able to get the FBI in court after finding their offices broken into and suing them over COINTELPRO activities. The judge asked the Special Agent in Charge how many FBI agents worked in Camejo’s presidential campaign; the answer was 66 agents. Camejo estimated he had a campaign staff of about 400 across the country. Once again that would be an infiltration rate of 1 out of 6 people. Camejo discovered that among the agents was his campaign co-chair. He also discovered eavesdropping equipment in his campaign office and documents showing the FBI had followed him since he was a student activist at 18 years old.

...

There is an oft-repeated joke that goes: How could you tell which members of the Communist Party of the USA were really government agents? The ones that always paid their dues on time. And it was a joke based in realism.

Anyway, you don't even think much of this idea in reality, mmmmmmmichael, as judged by your previous replies to this thread before this one, you were one of the few responding to be realistic enough to know the US government is not gonna sit by while a threat emerges. You just got really offended after I replied with this post to one of your threads, and went fishing through my post history to nit-pick. That is all.

 

[lry]

I like the idea, although I worry about something like waco happening. Is there really law that would allow such an undertaking?

Edit: Removed my hastily written rant.