The age old question

coolguyeagle76'

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basically the situation is as follows: my friend matt plays drums in this really shitty hardcore band with a bunch of 14 year olds and they were playing a "punk" show at this "community" showspace we have in tallahassee. during the set the lead singer said the word faggot (as in "i wanna see you move faggots"((could have been a bit more creative i know)) ) and they were all banned from said venue for life. An intersting side to this, the singers sister is out and he himself is bi. in you OPINION do words with negative or bigotted connotations conflict with the anarchist ethics/agenda in any way? is it "fascist" to exclude hatred and bias in anarchistic chaos, is it niave to think that is even possible?? DO WORDS REALLY HURT???
 

CXR1037

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Words only hurt weak people.

Words are just the bullets that fly through the air. Motives and actions hurt. Words are just tools. If words offend you, you're a god damned idiot.

Obviously, if you're going around spouting racial slurs for pure joy, then you're probably a piece of shit and should be generally ignored. But if I say, "damn, that's gay that you got fired," I'm not being some horrible oppressor. If you think i am, it's probably because you're an attention whore.

also, in before someone says, "you're not gay/queer/genderqueer/biofembotmalegenderambiguous v.1.0.2 manwomyn who the fuck knows.com, you don't know what it's like!" I have plenty of friends who are and they have enough common sense not to let a three letter word emotional unravel them.

/rant
 

xbocax

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Theres been worse things said but if your in a safe space just have some common sense. Chances are the people that are running the safe space are a bunch of overly PC ninnys. It just has to do with the spot and what the spot has deemed ok or not ok over time.

sure words in themselves don;t hurt but what if those words bring back awful memories. If a queer person hears another queer or out queer supportive person say faggot their may be some comradery involved in a sort of fighting the same fight attitude. At the same time if someone who may maliciously be using the word says it it may bring back awful memories of when this person was beaten up, persecuted, or maimed while the specific word was used against them. We cant always know what words may mean to others but common sense will tell which ones definately will and in regards to a safe space you have to show your good intent and like mindedness before ranting off words of hate.

I think had this person expressed themselves as a queer folk if he considered himself as such their may not have been such an outcry. Look before you leap.

Somethibng somewhat similarly happened to me where me and my friends got hassled at Clit Fest LA because they were pitting in their thongs and me well in nothing. We thought it would be a funny thing to do and express what clit fest was all about but i guess the site ofpenis ticked off a couple of the PC queer folk haha. Shit is the drummer from con de nada would play topless it was a pretty shitty call on their part.
 

Ivy

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Words only hurt weak people.

Words are just the bullets that fly through the air. Motives and actions hurt. Words are just tools. If words offend you, you're a god damned idiot.

Obviously, if you're going around spouting racial slurs for pure joy, then you're probably a piece of shit and should be generally ignored. But if I say, "damn, that's gay that you got fired," I'm not being some horrible oppressor. If you think i am, it's probably because you're an attention whore.

also, in before someone says, "you're not gay/queer/genderqueer/biofembotmalegenderambiguous v.1.0.2 manwomyn who the fuck knows.com, you don't know what it's like!" I have plenty of friends who are and they have enough common sense not to let a three letter word emotional unravel them.

/rant

It's a shame we can't all be as big and strong as you, but be that as it may, what does it take for someone to pause and think about their word choice?

No one is asking you to censor yourself, just consider someone else's feelings.
 

GutterGrayse

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Anything said in humor should be regarded as such, even if it isn't your style of humor.
Jokes and such are at their best when they regard what makes us human/ how we are.
So, if you're using a word like 'faggots' in a joking manner to people who are not all gay,
then you are in the right.
 

cranberrydavid

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I don't really see this as a PC thing. When you say some things it's an invitation to fight. That's your right. It's also the right of the management to say "Take it outside guys."
 

coolguyeagle76'

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Anything said in humor should be regarded as such, even if it isn't your style of humor.
Jokes and such are at their best when they regard what makes us human/ how we are.
So, if you're using a word like 'faggots' in a joking manner to people who are not all gay,
then you are in the right.
thats my personal philosophy as well, i think part of the issue with the band being banned is that they werent in with the clique that runs the space and in this particular case they were using the pretext of political correctness to exclude these kids from their cool club. that is the most fucked up part of the situation.
 

spoonreceptacle

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In my opinion yes, words with negative or bigoted connotations conflict with anarchist ethics/agenda.

First let me try and clear something up first though because it's not a straight YES, to assume that anarchist have an agenda, or would adhere to a "moral code of ethics" is just that, an assumption. Anarchists have forever questioned and fought moral code because it is derived from god, and by most part enforced by government, and they have always sought other means of growing communities in which these codes do not apply or exist, but a humanitarian view based on equality and anti-authoritarianism. Also for an agenda, it's hard to say considering that anarchists consist of many decentralized groups. There are lots of groups that are social-libertarian or unions, primitivists or activists that have agendas, even squats and bookstores and showspaces may have an "agenda".

But as we have all found a large percent of people who consider themselves "anarchist" do not usually have "ethics"(doesn't mean they're bad people) or an "agenda", and are free spirits roaming the outskirts of capitalism conquering personal quests. So once again, an assumption that anarchists even have ethics or agendas.

Now that i took so long clearing that up, i personally think that most if not all anarchists have ethics, and agendas. I've hung around tons of anarchist shops, community's, squats, camps, made friends with travelling anarchists and anchored anarchists, been to protests and riots; and they all, except a select few, have ethics and morals and a personal agenda they wish to inflict on the world. Morals like, anti-racism, anti-homophobia, anti-sexism,anti-nationalism, treating everyone with equality and fighting them with direct action on all fronts. And always searching for the root of the problem, to create a different community.Alot of these people have set up venues or spaces for people to escape skinhead culture, to escape their schools and their homes and find a safe place to interact. So when things like "faggot" are shouted instead of a clever mother fucker or punk bitches, it may spark the attention of people that have been trying their whole life to get negative ideas like that which are tools to lower energy levels and create dichotomy.
It's also not a straight yes because besides all anarchist attempts at "a better world" they are firm believers in personal liberty and free speach. And attempt to dissect the origins of these ideas and words and their effect on people.

So is it wrong to exercise their authority as owner and/or owners of the venue according to their own personal ethics/values/agenda anarchist or not?

Is it fascist to exclude bias and hatred? Are they themselves becoming fascist? what ever happened to free speach? Like i said, their own personal agenda.
Is it fascist to kick a nazi in the face? Are they exactly the same? or honest clashes of ideals that can grow into futures and rewrite history?
Is it naive to think it'll ever happen? Perhaps, but what else are people gona do.. stop trying?
And yes, words do hurt. Especially when you're 14. They shouldn't but they do, buncha pussies. mwahaha jokin'

In the end, my own opinion, whoever didn't punch that kid in the mouth is a fuckin moron. i've been to too many shows where the queers would gladly, and have, kicked anyones ass for that shit. And also, if you take that shit to heart you're a moron too, grow up, it's just a word,everyone needs to get past using nonsensical terminology that clearly we all spend too much fucking time talking and typing about. (especially me) Stop using it, stop caring about it, who gives a shit, why is everyone so dull these days anyway i swear they put something in chef boyardee that decreases the ridges on childrens brains. But god damn i love free speech as much as he loves saying faggots
The singer should just be a man and talk to the community space staff up front about his situation, i mean if the kids didn't tear down the place and eyeballfuck the band who cares. I guess some people do... in places that try to offer said environments. But shit man, they could be the next GWAR!!! wooo!! I was at one show, found out someone shit on their living room floor the next mornin, they could always do that.
 
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Pheonix

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spoonreceptacle, you had some good points until the end when you basically said physical violence is an acceptable retaliation to verbal name calling. after that I forgot everything else you said.
 

spoonreceptacle

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All i said is i have first hand witnessed others inflict their own personal style of "justice" upon people doing them, what they feel is, wrong. Oh ya and the moron part for not punching the kid in the mouth, haha, well maybe that's going too far, i truly do admit.. truly, accidentally knock the mic into his mouth? haha.


I like your albert einstein quote.
 

cranberrydavid

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But the reality is that violence is a common retaliation for being dissed, and I can't say it's wrong. Look, when somebody chooses to publicly diss you by calling you a faggot, motherfucker, cocksucker or whatever, they're usually not interested in your sex life. They're usually trying to start a fight, and there's usually a real threat of physical violence behind the words. And if you're about to take a beating, there's a lot to be said for getting in the first shot.

I'm not saying the words always justify a violent response. But they can often be the spark that triggers violence, and once you're at that point you've got to protect yourself and your friends as best you can.

As for using the power of the microphone to diss the whole crowd, all I've got to say is I'd want to be in a cage first.
 

colorado

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sounds like ya need drink all there booze f^^^ there ole ladys clean out the fridge and move on like a swarm of degenerate punks to the next pc house bro u aint never gonna win with dem pc hipsters quicker you find itout the more femmnazi u can piss off
 

MrD

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sounds like ya need drink all there booze f^^^ there ole ladys clean out the fridge and move on like a swarm of degenerate punks to the next pc house bro u aint never gonna win with dem pc hipsters quicker you find itout the more femmnazi u can piss off
what the fuck am i reading...
 

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