Right to travel law (no license or papers)

[codycodnyk]

So I ended up on a YouTube video about the right to travel without a license, plates, insurance, registration, etc. Now I'm not too sure about the legitness of these videos, but several people on YouTube get pulled over, assert the right to travel amendment in the Constitution, show paperwork for the amendment, and the police let them go.
apparently, there is an old constitutional amendment that gives people the right to use their private cars for noncommercial purposes on the road without a license or papers. It seems like an old law that many cops do not know about, but I've found many articles saying the supreme court upheld it.
so if it is all legit, that sounds like great news for rubbertramps. My only thing would be that some cops may refuse to acknowledge it and still arrest you, impound your vehicle. At the least, it would be a hassle.

its interesting, though. Any thoughts on this? Anyone ever heard of it or can attest to it being legit?

 

[MolotovMocktail]

Interesting but I don't think it would do you any good. As you said, no cop will know about this and it's possible that citing some obscure amendment would just piss a cop off more. Also, I would strongly advise anyone who's traveling in a vehicle to have a license since having cops run your name is pretty much inevitable if you're traveling.

Wikipedia says: "With the advent of the automobile, however, courts began upholding laws and regulations requiring licenses to operate vehicles on roadways. Constitutional scholar Roger Roots has referred to the forgotten right to travel without license as 'the orphaned right'."

So yeah, I don't think it would be very helpful.

 

[Kim Chee]

The Constitution is Federal, the States have the power to make laws more restrictive than Federal laws, but don't have the ability to make them less restrictive (except in the case of medical weed, which I don't understand why the Feds don't hassle the States who have passed laws making it legal). If that last sentence bothers you, you can unwad your panties, I just used it as an example and wouldn't consider depriving you of your weed.

Anyway...since DC is Federal, you would be more likely to get away with things there as DC is not a State. There is no Federal law I know of which requires a drivers license to operate a vehicle, to have insurance or even license plates...all kinds of good shit. The states (most of them) require you to have that stuff.

Also, Indian Reservations are governed neither by the States or the Feds, but the Feds do have jurisdiction and enforce Federal laws using the FBI.

 

[Matt Derrick]

unfortunately, the law rarely determines what is actually enforced by the officer. for those of us that are skirting so close to the edge financially, these fights aren't generally worth the cost.

if you've read up a lot on it maybe you could use this as a way to bs the cop as to why you don't have a license/insurance, but i doubt it would work.

 

[codycodnyk]

My reasoning is that with all the cops shooting innocent people, its not a good idea. Sad to not be able to do something in the constitution out of fear of police ignorance. But glad that its a trivial thing.

 

[Matt Derrick]

My reasoning is that with all the cops shooting innocent people, its not a good idea. Sad to not be able to do something in the constitution out of fear of police ignorance. But glad that its a trivial thing.

true, i've heard there's no official law stating we should have to pay taxes either, yet we do for some reason...

 

[Chillawhile]

After a bit of research, it appears that this is little more than wishful thinking mixed with confusing legal terms and flat out misleading info from the proponents of the "right to travel" movement. Most of the legal cases cited on RTT websites claiming to prove precedence are from completely unrelated cases, and the "right to travel" as specified under the "privliges and immunities clause" does little to imply that the issuance of a drivers license by the state is unconstitutional. It really just says you have the right to travel from one state to another and guarntee of equal rights in the new state. Or so I gather...
All this being said, i do not agree with nor condone the deplorable infringements upon our rights by the police state, and highly advocate learning (and standing up for) your rights. This however does not appear to have much truth behind it, at least that I can find. If anyone has info to the contrary Id love to see it.
There are better, more proven ways to stay out of trouble, tho no matter how much law you know the cops can (and will) pretty much do whatever the hell they want, legal, constitutional or not. always remember to say, "I do NOT Consent to searches!"
Arm yourself with knowladge, stand up for your rights, and hope the cops you encounter have some memory of their job description. Ie. Uphold the constitution etc. Not likely, but we can hope

 

[creature]

Chill, thank you!

All the posts are provocative & informative..
i've traveled with 2 StPers who refused to provide ID, one claiming they never applied for nor were issued any..

both were in new mexico & california, where they are probably used to it, but in can's ass?

i dunno..


but def a good, practical perspective...

 

[travelingjoe]

Chill, thank you!

All the posts are provocative & informative..
i've traveled with 2 StPers who refused to provide ID, one claiming they applied for nor were issued any..

both were in new mexico & california, where they are probably used to it, but in can's ass?

i dunno..


but def a good, practical perspective...

Im just wondering. What did the cops do when they didn't show proof of identification?

 

[creature]

edit my previous post: "claiming they <never> applied for nor were issued any.

in the 1st instance i didn't see, since they separated us when they began their interrogatories..

in the second, they did did the same thing (common tactic to pry between individuals & their right not to speak), hope to catch some inconsistency they could accuse us with, when all that is sought is to protect one's self as simply as possible against against the danger of power vested upon the incompetent..

(see any number of my references to googleing "to smart to be a cop?")

in that instance the hubby just said, essentially, "never applied for any kind at all, and was never issued any kind at all"
i mean, that is **not** verbatim, but it was *that* fucking brief.. true or not? not my fucking business.
he seemed to be right on top of his rights, as such, though, because he didn't yield.

i would advise serious research.

i am merely trying to Get The Fuck Out.

get the fuck out of where pis can stuff their shit up our assholes..
America..

America..

oh my Joy..


She is dead,

unless we nurture her with blood..

She

is

Dead.

Dead.

we are just fleeing, like the dying flakes of bark,
burning as the Forest dies..

i have no desire to cleanse Her with the Blood

of tyrants..

not because i am afraid

but because they are not worth it..

& until i am convinced that there is any future to be had,

should they ever, ever, ever, cease to exist..

then i shall

Flee..


i shall flee & i shall hope

i am no more than a coward.


America!!


O, my Love!!!


my

Love...

my One,

True

Love...

my meaning & everything i would sacrifice everything for..

my one Pride that i have Pilgrimaged to,

even if your portion of Earth
was where my feet first
Touched...


O, Mr. Snowden..

Oh..

She dies..

she Dies,

deciding what Humanity shall Become..


& humanity is too strong for patriotism
& too strong to be anything other than yeast, or any creature that will devour until it shits itself unto simple death.

Humanity.

Vonnegut got us Right.
we are like fucking Yeast
& we Don't Fucking Care.

yer poor?

fuck you.
sucks to be You.

asshole.

yer poor.

shithead.
yer poor.

it's yer fucking fault, & if you die because of it?

it's yer fucking fault.

& all the shitheads say,

well, mother, motherfucker
this is America, asshole,
& the people who die, are the people who don't listen..

& we are the poor
& we can't Vote,
We will Surely

Do Something Fucking Else.

So..

all you fucking spooks.. not Spooks, as if you meant something beyond life..
unless you were a Spook
willing to die,
even if you learned what you loved
was False..
or had been Poisoned, so that you could not love it
with Faith..

all you fucking spooks, reading this..

you fucking minor, worthless, pointless, distribution of taxes to people who are just as capable of doing actual work as those who just suck off the Tit of That Which Has Diminished What They Should Be.. ( & i capitalize that, not because i would capitalize a set of letters like 'cuthulu' opps.. cthulu.. or whatever..) but because you shits who try to control (because you are too fucking lazy to otherwise), rather than produce, are more unimaginably evil as a reality, than everything ever set before us in the Upanishads, the Dhammapada, the Koran or the new & old Fucking Testaments in glyphs or letters warning us of what haunts our potential.

if we are left alone to become

what our failure of Ease

entices us


to

be..

or, rather

to not

Be..


O, my God
& O my Love..



Tude?

I shall not send you Glass, untill I tear it from tje very Sand with my own Hands..

or the poetry i make,

watching the Storm tear upon Her..

spooks should be Gray

& sad..

& they should be Powerfull,

but not because they
Want

to be..

neither should they ever, ever,

^ever^

be small..

& the big ones that are Bad

we should be Free

to Kill..


so...


as far as identification goes?

check it out.

my advice?

Fuck this fucking place.

barbed wire fences & signs saying you will be arrested.

fucking shitty business models that pay friendship with theft..

shitty fucking political machinery that does nothing but support "checks & balances" with the vulgarities of desire..

& if that is all humanity is?

just another fucking yeast?

guess what we fucking are.


just another fucking yeast..

poets, patriots, revolutionaries, artists, doctors, judiciates, protectorates.. all..

just fucking yeast.

just a fucking infection.

& fuck the radical Christans & donaldfuckinghahahhahhaHAHahapissrunnofftrump..
& fuck the assholes who have nothing better to do than believe in fucking virgins..

all we are is fucking mold.

or maybe, if we are lucky, algae..

because then

the Sea
might still

Live..

 

[Odin]

all we are is fucking mold.

or maybe, if we are lucky, algae..

because then

the Sea
might still

Live..

@creature ,

Blimey!

Sometimes I read what you write and I feel like I am facing the celestial display... a cosmic mirror.

Some day friend we must break open a bottle of excellent gutrot grog...

Then.

Trim the sails and set our course across the caps through the waves, a Cutty Sark.

Keep the Luff in line with the wind... Let it out until it starts to flap, and then pull it in until it stops.

Sea Salt in yer crusty lungs!

Arrrrgh!

 

[Mankini]

This sort of philosophy is of the 'sovereign citizen' variety. It all sounds good in theory but application is an entirely different matter.

 

[Kim Chee]

I've traveled without ID on foot for years (sometimes drove). I also would not tell law enforcement who I was when approached.

In most cases, you're going straight to jail (for obstruction of justice or whatever bullshit they make up). I've been to jail so many times I can't remember. Just minding my own business.

...If you always carry papers and always tell cops who you are when asked, I hope you don't claim to be punk...I don't care what kind of music you listen to or how you dress. Fuck off, poseur.

 

[travelingjoe]

So glad its straight to jail with no papers. lol

my hopes just jumped a million ropes,
feel i been fucked in the ass by an atelope,
now the cops here to stir up all hope,
well bite me, kick me, shoot me down.
i know in this world i will be found.
if you find me on the ground,
please pick me up and sing one sound........
Pantera shoulda been crowned,,,
for this song that goes round!!! BECOMING!!!


A long time ago i never knew myself,
then the memory of shame birthed its gift.
No more the small one the week one the frightened one
running from beatings. deflating
im becoming more than a man, more than you ever were.
driven and burning, to rise beyond jesus...
im born again with snakes eyes
becoming godsize....

 

[Desert]

I was a dollar short when the first squad car drove by and motioned for me to leave. I refused. Another drove by within a few minutes and flashed his lights. Again, I refused to move. I had just picked up what I needed and a "May Yahweh bless your travels" when the third officer pulled in behind me.

"What are you doing out here?" He asked.

I simply pointed to my sign and started walking toward the bus stop.

"Hold on...You have an ID?"

"Nope." I told him with my back still turned. It was the truth.

"What? You don't have a name?"

I could pick up on his irritation so I took a moment to settle myself before I turned around and looked at him.

"I have one but I don't think you have any right to stop and ask me. I believe that it is my right to free speech to stand here and hold this sign. If you feel any different than call your superior officer."

I turned around, crossed the street and sat at the bus stop. He got in his car and drove off. Ten minutes later I was sitting at the light rail station waiting to head east.

On foot, that's my argument. If I'm driving then I just try not to get pulled over. As far as I know you are not required to carry identification or a license unless your operating a motor vehicle. They will fuck you sideways if you don't have license and you get pulled over.

 

[Chillawhile]

Yes this is absolutely true. If tort on foot and have done nothing illegal, or "suspicious" then police have no right or reason to ask for or demand to see ID.

Driving a car is another story entirely. Just don't get pulled over and know your shit for the ever increasing random roadblocks and checkpoints. Depending on the officer at such random checks knowing your rights and confidently reciting said rights can get you through without presenting ID, but it's often more trouble than it's worth. If you have a driver's license that is, and if not then it can't hurt to try anything as your probably going to jail anyways.

Another thing I always do when "flexing" my rights is record the interaction with the cops, if possible from multiple angles (one on the cop out the window and one on me) I try to make it known from the start that I'm recording and it seems to put them on their best behavior.

It's always best to start the conversation as polite and professional as possible, despite the overwhelming urge to answer every question with an emphatic "FUCK YOU PIG!"

Good luck to all my off the grid out of the system brothers and sisters out there. Much Love!

 

[Desert]

It really has to do with the Fed's attempt to criminalize being poor. Most of us are lucky enough to be able to afford an ID and have a pretty good understanding of what our rights are because we get hassled all the time. The ones that don't are the ones that get fucked and thrown in jail long term. They don't want other people to see us because we are dirty and have found a way around their so-called rules. It's just an attempt to satisfy the old rich white fucks who believe everyone should be working 9-5, raising a family and falling inline with their Judeo Christian values. When you challenge this and live on the margins, they try to intimidate you with state sanctioned violence and "legal" oppression.

 

[Chillawhile]

I agree for the most part. Although I think they more want people to stay poor and become dependant on the state for survival either by incarceration or preferably by welfare and food stamps etc. as in many places it is already illegal to be "homeless"

To the powers that shouldn't be we are no more than resources to be controlled and manipulated for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the many.

 

[urchin]

There is no law saying you even have to talk to a cop. If you aren't doing anything illegal, or they haven't caught you doing it, you don't even have to acknowledge them. I've done this many times and never got in trouble in many states. Keep in mind this is on foot.

 

[Chillawhile]

Again... On foot, as a passenger in a car, any manner of travel where you're not operating a motor vehicle. And if your doing nothing wrong then no you are not "required" to answer any questions.

If anyone finds themselves in an unwanted conversation with law enforcement and want to end it quick there are three questions YOU need to ask the cop.
1 Am I under arrest? The answer will most likely be... "No"
Then immediately followed by the second question...
2. Am I being detained? Again, most likely the answer will be "No" if so, then the third question is...
3. Am I free to go now? This is more of a statement than a question in reality as if your not under arrest or being detained then by law you ARE free to go.

If the answer to #2 is not "No" and that means ANY response other than "No" then the next question to ask is "do you have a reasonable suspicion that I have committed a crime?" If they don't have any, or can't make something up, then by law you are free to go, and should revert to question 3. "Am I free to go"

My approach is generally:
To be as respectful as possible unless and until given a reason not to be.
To be confident and assertive of my knowledge and understanding of the laws in question and individuals rights.
To try to keep the encounter as calm and non confrontational as possible (because pissing off the wrong cop could literally be a fatal mistake)
To Never, EVER under any circumstance what-so-ever consent to searches. Just don't do it. Absolutely nothing positive can be gained from doing so.

Cops are well trained and practiced in the art of 'con'vincing civilians to "voluntarily" waive their rights. They are "legally" allowed to lie to you in order to trick you into giving up your rights.

I've tried many approaches over the years and the polite non-compliant method seems to result in more positive outcomes. And when I stay calm I'm less likely to be pissed off the rest of the day as a result.