Political Correct-ness

[st1tch]

What are your views on being politically correct? Specifically saying terms like "gay" "fag" and other such putdowns that may offend groups of people but not using them TO offend those groups of people.

 

[simpletoremember]

I really don't use the word "gay", but I do called smokes "fags" most of the time, just force of habit. I also use the word "queer" referring to something odd. I find no problem with using these words, unless you are trying to offend somebody. but that's just my view on the subject.

 

[whaleofashrimp]

i think politicaly correct is a strange term...it has come to mean left-wing uptightness..but when you think about the term it's self is kind of neutral...you can be politically incorrect as a republican if you dont follow every word of rush limbaughs
when you look at the word..it doesint demote a right or left wing ideology
it just means not haveing the "correct" politics
and of course facists and communests made an art out of rooting out the "politically incorrect"

my simple advice is to be open to all peoples and all trains of thought
be open to discussion and points of view that might make you feel uncomfterbal
be willing to be hated and reviled for makeing others feel uncomfterbal
be willing to accept that yourwrong
but dont autimaticly assume your wrong just because people disagree with you..or even hate you for it

aberrant
1. departing from the right, normal, or usual course.
2. deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type; exceptional; abnormal.

it's a lonely world...but being honest has it's own rewards

 

[Rash L]

monitoring yourself and those around you for "political correct-ness" is boring.

 

[JungleBoots]

the political in political correctness is not the same politics as left vs. right, or dealing with government or economic issues. political also means dealing with relationships. you deal in politics when you talk to your friends.

given no one likes pussy footing, but terms like nigger, bitch, faggot, gay, savage, retard what not and so fourth have histories and those histories are damaging to people.

personally i dont really see much an issue with the other words, but nigger, nigga, nigra, nig, anything of that sort is most dangerous to use.

and this is where my politics come in. nigga is a hip term now a days. and its almost non chalant to say. yet it sill damages the black population. However un directed the term is towards being offensive or being directed towards black people the word still connotates aspects of black culture that are degrading. This degradation causes tensions, miss trust, and seperation.

and when you anarchists speak of revolution whose going to be held responsible when rather than the blacks backing the revolution, as the have all the right to do so, they instead sit back and look at you saying "fucking crazy ass cracker".

if you are very very serious about understanding at least this motivation to have political correctness i suggest reading this article:

http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/archives/oldsite/2003/N-Word.htm

its fairly long, and written from a communist revolutionary's perspective but its got all the same reasons to quit using the word as an anachrist would.

and ill tell you what after reading it i was convinced and i have since sworn off the word all together. so I definately suggest reading it.

 

[lobotomy3yes]

I don't use oppressive language, and it's not hard at all. Not boring either. It just comes to you easily after awhile. The hardest thing to do is not sound Western, but is not really a PC issue. The only thing I am not so good at is gender pronouns, (ze, hir, etc.). I always forget to use them, but I think it is important at least for me to do so. If you don't have much interaction with transfolk than you don't have to worry much about it, but it's the least I can do for people who are by default ignored by everyone.

It really, really depends on who you associate with. If you hang out with a bunch of bros it won't be a big deal. It wasn't for me when I did. However if you meet a really cool radical feminist and expect to still use the word b*tch in everyday language, you are going to find out real quick that it is one or the other. I choose friendship over a stupid word. People are actually are offended by this stuff, and it is easy to say they shouldn't be until you meet them.


I'll say fag and queer, but never as an insult. It's been appropriated by the queer community as a term of endearment when used by other queers. IE. straight people shouldn't use it. Queer maybe ("that story is rather queer and doesn't quite add up"). Fag no. Essentially it's my word, and damn right I'll use it. When you've been called it legitimately, you can too. Personally I'm not at all confrontational about this though. My straight friends say fag all the time, and sometimes call me "gay" or "fag", but never seriously and not too often (more often then I would prefer certainly). If any of them EVER called me a fag contemptuously, I'd be fucking pissed and really close to fighting them. Since it is so ingrained in society I don't typically waste time nagging when I can be doing better things. But really, it's not a freedom of speech thing. No one is banning the words. In fact, the sooner people stop using them casually, the sooner they will be replaced by new swear words that don't refer to marginalized groups of people. It's just decency really. There are a few people out there who I excuse entirely, but for unique circumstances.


Basically it's like this:
Joe: Shit, that guy thinks he is so cool. What a fucking fag.
Chris: Could you maybe think of a different name to call him, at LEAST around me. I mean I get called that regularly by people I don't even fucking know so it gets on my nerves.

Now this can go one of two ways.
1)
Joe: Oh sorry dude, my bad. Didn't think about that.
Chris: Hey man, no problem at all. I only mention it because you're a a good friend and try to be a decent person.

2)
Joe: Fuck you dude. I'll fucking say fag whenever I fucking want. Fucking freedom of speech. Don't step on my rights man, it's oppressive.
Chris: Shit, all I did was ask for your consideration. What's oppressive is being singled out and then branded for it. What's even more oppressive is when people insist on poking a sizzling wound. And you accuse ME of oppressing you.
-------

Good discussion btw. Hope that was helpful.

 

[connerR]

What are your views on being politically correct? Specifically saying terms like "gay" "fag" and other such putdowns that may offend groups of people but not using them TO offend those groups of people.

I don't care too much about political correctness, but I guess that might just be the kind of person I am. I'm also a straight white male. There isn't much you can say that will insult me. I'm sure it'd be different if I were gay.

I don't know, a lot of it comes down to the person, I think. I have some gay friends who have been called faggot or homo or any of the other terms, and they'll just laugh and say, "yeah I am!"

Basically, it comes down to decency, I think. I think it should be a matter of respect for fellow people over anything else. What I don't like is when it goes too far, a la affirmative action kind of stuff.

 

[st1tch]

I don't use oppressive language, and it's not hard at all. Not boring either. It just comes to you easily after awhile. The hardest thing to do is not sound Western, but is not really a PC issue. The only thing I am not so good at is gender pronouns, (ze, hir, etc.). I always forget to use them, but I think it is important at least for me to do so. If you don't have much interaction with transfolk than you don't have to worry much about it, but it's the least I can do for people who are by default ignored by everyone.

It really, really depends on who you associate with. If you hang out with a bunch of bros it won't be a big deal. It wasn't for me when I did. However if you meet a really cool radical feminist and expect to still use the word b*tch in everyday language, you are going to find out real quick that it is one or the other. I choose friendship over a stupid word. People are actually are offended by this stuff, and it is easy to say they shouldn't be until you meet them.


I'll say fag and queer, but never as an insult. It's been appropriated by the queer community as a term of endearment when used by other queers. IE. straight people shouldn't use it. Queer maybe ("that story is rather queer and doesn't quite add up"). Fag no. Essentially it's my word, and damn right I'll use it. When you've been called it legitimately, you can too. Personally I'm not at all confrontational about this though. My straight friends say fag all the time, and sometimes call me "gay" or "fag", but never seriously and not too often (more often then I would prefer certainly). If any of them EVER called me a fag contemptuously, I'd be fucking pissed and really close to fighting them. Since it is so ingrained in society I don't typically waste time nagging when I can be doing better things. But really, it's not a freedom of speech thing. No one is banning the words. In fact, the sooner people stop using them casually, the sooner they will be replaced by new swear words that don't refer to marginalized groups of people. It's just decency really. There are a few people out there who I excuse entirely, but for unique circumstances.

Devil's advocate time. Wouldn't it be empowering to the word to make it taboo? If the word is considered as an okay-thing to say then the deushbags who use it as a putdown would no longer be able to hurt whichever minority it offends.

 

[st1tch]

I don't care too much about political correctness, but I guess that might just be the kind of person I am. I'm also a straight white male. There isn't much you can say that will insult me. I'm sure it'd be different if I were gay.

I don't know, a lot of it comes down to the person, I think. I have some gay friends who have been called faggot or homo or any of the other terms, and they'll just laugh and say, "yeah I am!"

Basically, it comes down to decency, I think. I think it should be a matter of respect for fellow people over anything else. What I don't like is when it goes too far, a la affirmative action kind of stuff.

I'm guilty of saying "that's gay" or "queer" in a negative way, which pisses me off when I actually think about it. One of my bestfriends is gay, and he says gay, fag, queer as well, but as I said, when we actually think about it it is saddening that people will say something that relates to homosexuality- accidentally or purposely- in a negative context.

 

[lobotomy3yes]

Devil's advocate time. Wouldn't it be empowering to the word to make it taboo? If the word is considered as an okay-thing to say then the deushbags who use it as a putdown would no longer be able to hurt whichever minority it offends.

I guess it's possible, but I don't see it being too probable. When a word becomes somewhat common then it becomes all the more likely that a douchebag will use it to marginalize.


Saying "that's gay" for example. This doesn't offend me much (I'm not gay really, but I doubt any homophobe would take the time to differentiate lol). It's become a pretty trivial thing to say. Really, calling someone gay is not incredibly derisive. Sure, it depends on the attitude. Instead of discouraging Dbags from using it to further marginalized queers however, it's just made that marginalization more popular. That's because really that's what using the word in a negative context is all about- marginalizing people- whether or not the person saying it means it.

If you were to start using "gay" in a positive way like it used to be, I wouldn't have any problem with it. Shit, more power to you.


I really don't want to limit anyone's speech or make us all sound the same. Nor do I want laws to do this for me. And what Connor said about affirmative action, I don't consider this to be an issue of "PC", so you shouldn't have to worry about that. I do support affirmative action in most cases, but that is for another time. That has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with personal politic philosophy though.

 

[st1tch]

I really don't want to limit anyone's speech or make us all sound the same. Nor do I want laws to do this for me. And what Connor said about affirmative action, I don't consider this to be an issue of "PC", so you shouldn't have to worry about that. I do support affirmative action in most cases, but that is for another time. That has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with personal politic philosophy though.

I'm all with you on this, I really want to start speaking in a way that reflects my morals- not that I have a huge issue with any of it, it just seems like if you're (me, in this particular example) going to preach equality, you should start speaking in an equality-friendly manner.

 

[lobotomy3yes]

Well it will come easy to you real quick with that attitude. For me, it's almost like grammar. They're vs. their vs. there. Just gotta learn it decently at first and it is easy after that.

 

[Pickles]

As for the whole "empowering the word" issue, I've got a buddy living down in NOLA who would use aforementioned words in regular speech due to the fact that he didn't want to get them power by avoiding their use and considering them taboo. He said that working in a restaurant down in New Orleans, he worked with mostly black people, that they'd use the words 'nigger' and 'nigga' all the time. He said that once, a white supervisor reprimanded a black employee for using these words. The worker got upset and told the woman she had absolutely no right to tell him whether or not he could use the words. And my buddy's black friends had no problem with speaking this way. Thought this was interesting.

In my opinion, white people are basically the only race that is concerned with being racist. Try watching foreign comendy regarding white/american people. Most white/american people would watch this comedy and laugh, thinking "fuck, that's so true!" but if they saw the same comedy format reversed, they would be morbidly offended.

I do not understand this.
Make up your mind people.
Just a thought.

 

[lobotomy3yes]

There is a difference between a white person and a black person saying n*gga. Same with a hetero/cis person and a queer person saying fag. One is empowering/appropriating, and the other is just obnoxious.

 

[st1tch]

In my opinion, white people are basically the only race that is concerned with being racist. Try watching foreign comendy regarding white/american people. Most white/american people would watch this comedy and laugh, thinking "fuck, that's so true!" but if they saw the same comedy format reversed, they would be morbidly offended.

I do not understand this.
Make up your mind people.
Just a thought.

I agree as far as white people are more concerned with racism then many of the races being affected by it, but that's just for racism. When it comes to homophobia though, no one except the occasional moralist cares at all- rich white people or 3rd world poor people. It's accepted in most cultures to just kill gay people, so I can understand why the gay community would have a problem with modern slurs.

 

[iamwhatiam]

well i'm gay and it doesn't really bother me that much anymore to hear people say "that's gay" or to be called a fag. maybe because i've been called that countless times growing up, and it's lost the malicious edge it once seemed to inflict at times.
altho i feel sad for the young kids growing up who may be trying to understand their own homosexuality and having a difficult time of it - constantly hearing those kind of phrases from your peers at that age can make one feel ashamed, ostracized, etc.
when i hear someone use those kinds of remarks....it just makes me think that person is well.....unintelligent or...immature i guess.

 

[mksnowboarder]

I'll talk how I want. Words like "gay" and "fag" aren't common parts of my vocabulary, but if I slip up and say something while just talking, without intent to insult anyone, I'm not gonna take it well if some kid gets up in my face about it. I mean, if they're polite and understand that people can't watch every word that leaves their mouths, I'll probably apologize. If they're aggressive about it, someone's probably getting hurt.

I don't see it as my responsibility to check everything I say for offensive content. Everyone is absolutely free to not listen to me.

mike

 

[BUMJUG]

ehhh i think its good to not take it all so seriously......but indeed be mindful of what vocabulary is oppressive....just strive for the best...

 

[tallhorseman]

It's a funny thing. I never stuck my politically incorrect foot in my mouth back when I WAS a racist ass-hole. Because I was careful not to.

But after I shed my racism, sexism, gaycism, etc., I started just ASSUMING that everyone knew I was tolerant/approving. That's when I started slipping up. I pissed off a black man for calling a white man the HNIC(Head Nigga In Charge), which when you think about it is the equivalent of calling a black man Whitey. I pissed off a gay man for writing "Gay Pride" on his hard hat, a prank that had been played on me the day before. I didn't know he was gay. I thought I was just doing it to another strait construction worker.

It's a slippery slope. It's best to either walk on pins and needles, or have thick skin and be prepared to apologize every now and then. The problem is, in both cases, with me, the people I offended didn't want to hear my apology. They just wanted distance. I gave them their distance, but would have much rather apologized and tried to be friends. Their loss.

 

[st1tch]

It's a funny thing. I never stuck my politically incorrect foot in my mouth back when I WAS a racist ass-hole. Because I was careful not to.

But after I shed my racism, sexism, gaycism, etc., I started just ASSUMING that everyone knew I was tolerant/approving. That's when I started slipping up. I pissed off a black man for calling a white man the HNIC(Head Nigga In Charge), which when you think about it is the equivalent of calling a black man Whitey. I pissed off a gay man for writing "Gay Pride" on his hard hat, a prank that had been played on me the day before. I didn't know he was gay. I thought I was just doing it to another strait construction worker.

It's a slippery slope. It's best to either walk on pins and needles, or have thick skin and be prepared to apologize every now and then. The problem is, in both cases, with me, the people I offended didn't want to hear my apology. They just wanted distance. I gave them their distance, but would have much rather apologized and tried to be friends. Their loss.

It's funny how that works out