Banned jermacastus, requesting crew change guide (1 Viewer)

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Django

Pilgrim
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
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121
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Alaska-Argentina on a bike
I would expect more tolerance from a kinda anarchist online community. Even though I have read and in general wasn't about to ask for it, it seems a bit harsh to ban someone for that... Don't tell me the old saying "Not knowing the rules doesn't mean you won't be punished" applies here, in a fucking anarchist community!!

Don't you guys think you could just warn the guy, send him a msg (probably copy paste, like the one I got from the founder when just signed up a few hours ago) and delete his thread?
Just imagine how many members you lose over this bullshit of thinking you're too good to explain someone the rules.

Its like being an asshole as a cop and give tickets for bs traffic felonies, or have the mercy and humility to forgive and EXPLAIN!!!

Stay safe
Stay warm
And Justice for all
 

Matt Derrick

Semi-retired traveler
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I would expect more tolerance from a kinda anarchist online community. Even though I have read and in general wasn't about to ask for it, it seems a bit harsh to ban someone for that... Don't tell me the old saying "Not knowing the rules doesn't mean you won't be punished" applies here, in a fucking anarchist community!!

Don't you guys think you could just warn the guy, send him a msg (probably copy paste, like the one I got from the founder when just signed up a few hours ago) and delete his thread?
Just imagine how many members you lose over this bullshit of thinking you're too good to explain someone the rules.

Its like being an asshole as a cop and give tickets for bs traffic felonies, or have the mercy and humility to forgive and EXPLAIN!!!

Stay safe
Stay warm
And Justice for all
your definition of anarchy probably varies from our definition of 'anarch-ism' which are two different things. we have the rules for a reason, and we made the decision to ban this person because the first post they made was specifically against the rules this community has agreed to abide by, making it painfully obvious they did not even bother to read the rules, despite the fact that we give you multiple chances to do so. this is disrespectful to the people that put there time and energy into this space, so while we don't always ban people for requesting a crew change guide, we do reserve the right to ban people outright if we feel the circumstances justify it.

this is also stated in our rules. if you don't like it, then you're welcome to leave. sounds like a dick statement, sure, but we deal with people all the time that think the rules here don't apply to them, and after running this website for 18 years now, we're sick of having to deal with people's bullshit.

it's real simple. read the rules, don't be a dick. we're super nice here and you can generally do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rules you agreed to by registering an account on this website.

remember; anarchy is chaos, anarchism is living without rulers. we believe in the latter more than the former, within the constraints of logistics like available software and the amount of volunteers we have. we're the ones that put in the time, money, and resources to provide this free service to you. so, please be respectful, even if you don't necessarily agree with some of our decisions.
 

VikingAdventurer

Guardian of the Knowledge of the Wastes
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Just imagine how many members you lose over this bullshit of thinking you're too good to explain someone the rules.
I find this humorous.

The rules ARE explained, and quite clearly at that.

Right on the very first post of the very first thread that anyone who comes to this website sees.

It's literally called "READ THIS FIRST!"

If it's tolerance of breaking the clearly stated rules that you're looking for, try logging on to TOLERATE the Planet dot com.

Lol.
 

Ezra Fyre

Newbie
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
190
Hometown
New Orleans
I'm going to throw my totally unwanted 2cents in...

I also think Matt can be a bit totalitarian - and some of the other mods can come across harsh/snarky from time to time...

BUT - !!!!

I appreciate that this isn't an easy group to moderate. Time, effort, and yes the dreaded MONEY! This shit is NOT free - no matter how many anarchists want it to be. Without Matt for designing, building, AND maintaining this site - We ALL wouldn't have it. Without the Mods putting in their time to keep threads straight, filed right, disputes negotiated, etc! NOBODY would be here - because none of this would make any sense at all... Just be a damn run on list of random comments... No good.

I might not always think personally (safe in my own lil world) that the overlords (said lovingly to all mods & financial contributors) of the site handle things as nicely or respectfully as possible - but for fuck sake! It's a hobo forum! Them guys often aint polite, haha :)

IT IS a stressful, time consuming, and finance requiring job!

And I for one am DAMN greatfull they do it! (even if my lil feelings sometimes get their toes stepped on) I just wish I'd found it 18 yrs ago!! & I hope Matt stays young & unjaded enough to keep it running 18 more!!
 

Matt Derrick

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The rules ARE explained, and quite clearly at that.
not to mention that we've gone out of our way to send each new member a message with the condensed version of the rules for their convenience. oh, and you have to click 'agree to the terms and rules' when registering an account (which also links to the rules). ooooh and the guide to using stp which also outlines the rules for using the forum along with some forum etiquette advice.

so yeah. plenty of opportunities to familiarize yourself with the rules. so many there's really no excuse for not reading them.
 

Matt Derrick

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I'm going to throw my totally unwanted 2cents in...

I also think Matt can be a bit totalitarian - and some of the other mods can come across harsh/snarky from time to time...

BUT - !!!!

I appreciate that this isn't an easy group to moderate. Time, effort, and yes the dreaded MONEY! This shit is NOT free - no matter how many anarchists want it to be. Without Matt for designing, building, AND maintaining this site - We ALL wouldn't have it. Without the Mods putting in their time to keep threads straight, filed right, disputes negotiated, etc! NOBODY would be here - because none of this would make any sense at all... Just be a damn run on list of random comments... No good.

I might not always think personally (safe in my own lil world) that the overlords (said lovingly to all mods & financial contributors) of the site handle things as nicely or respectfully as possible - but for fuck sake! It's a hobo forum! Them guys often aint polite, haha :)

IT IS a stressful, time consuming, and finance requiring job!

And I for one am DAMN greatfull they do it! (even if my lil feelings sometimes get their toes stepped on) I just wish I'd found it 18 yrs ago!! & I hope Matt stays young & unjaded enough to keep it running 18 more!!
thanks for the kind words. i understand that our decisions might not always seem fair, but we are trying to be as transparent as possible. there might be reasons outside of the general public's knowledge as to why we take certain actions.

that said, if you feel like something is unfair, let us know. we've never banned anyone for disagreeing with us (as much as we'd like to when they're being a jerk about it), only if they are breaking the rules while doing so (i.e. constant harassment on the issue, name calling, etc). believe it or not, we're willing to change how we do things here if it will work within the logistical confines of this platform. in fact community input helps keep things transparent and improves the community as a whole when we get new, fresh ideas on how things could be done here. as long as the criticism is constructive, we'd love to hear what you think.
 

Ezra Fyre

Newbie
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
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190
Hometown
New Orleans
I know perfectly well it's my own damn fault i missed a good chunk o' this (the rules for the site) when I joined... Was outta my mind and single focused... Lol... I'm kinda greatfull I'm not a hobo looking to get the right train quick when I signed up... Ida likely been banned out the gate too :)

Took a min to catch on to how this place runs (for me) ... But, former home owner - i get the responsibility factor & the aggravation the community can offer those shouldering the responsibility... I "see both sides"...

But it all boils down to something basic to me - It's Matt's sandbox! We just get to play in it ... I know perfectly well he can pack it up and take it away with a power-cord :) ... But I like being a guest, even if i don't like whatever....

It's my own damn fault for being too preoccupied by my own shit to skip the rules till later...

But, my own example - I didn't (a. Know it was a thing... to even ask for) b. Know asking for a CCG would get you banned - until it happened "right in front of me" couples weeks ago...

My own damn fault - I'm sure... But I totally missed that, for weeks...

Threads like this is how I went, OH! ... lol

Then, ofcourse, I had to use my brain, figure out what one even was & logic why it would be something to get people banned... I got it figured out without having to ask... & Then, just for confirmation (also, without me being the one to ask) everything i thought up, or woulda asked was conveniently explain, through others conversation, within that thread.

Proving - this site rocks!

It's a noob mistake, and in a diff walk of life - probably one i would have made myself.
 

roughdraft

RápidoCorrenLosCarrosRespletoLosRielesDFerrocarril
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Messages
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"The Hamptons of the Chesapeake"
on one hand, you have a billion people on the internet using services like this forum "fo free" and with that comes all this entitlement and assumption like la la la anarchy la la internet anonymity which of course gets out of hand very quickly...so i can appreciate the pushback on that entitlement and misbehavior from the site administration and surely i am not alone in that

on the other hand if i start using a forum and I'm too much a space cadet to read the rules first does it completely make me worthless relative to the forum, i.e. worthy of being banned? it's easy to say if someone is stirring up, for example, hate for people based on ethnicity "yeh they need to go" but asking for the crew change is clearly more innocent (not to say i disagree with keeping it off of the site) so to what extent is ignorance an excuse?

a possible solution to cut down on unwanted types of traffic:

when someone creates an account require them to 'take a test' it could be 3 to 5 multiple choice questions based on the most important rules of the site. for example:

where on stp is it appropriate to ask for the crew change?
a. hitchhiking forum
b. road dog forum
c. nowhere at all
d. trainhopping forum

a theoretical 'rite of willful registry' such as that could force people to acknowledge the rules before being able to post

only an idea, to play devil's advocate, not feeling too passionate about it one way or another - but perhaps in the long term it could prevent issues like OP created
 

Matt Derrick

Semi-retired traveler
Staff member
Admin
Joined
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Hometown
Austin, TX
Website
youtube.com
on one hand, you have a billion people on the internet using services like this forum "fo free" and with that comes all this entitlement and assumption like la la la anarchy la la internet anonymity which of course gets out of hand very quickly...so i can appreciate the pushback on that entitlement and misbehavior from the site administration and surely i am not alone in that

on the other hand if i start using a forum and I'm too much a space cadet to read the rules first does it completely make me worthless relative to the forum, i.e. worthy of being banned? it's easy to say if someone is stirring up, for example, hate for people based on ethnicity "yeh they need to go" but asking for the crew change is clearly more innocent (not to say i disagree with keeping it off of the site) so to what extent is ignorance an excuse?

a possible solution to cut down on unwanted types of traffic:

when someone creates an account require them to 'take a test' it could be 3 to 5 multiple choice questions based on the most important rules of the site. for example:

where on stp is it appropriate to ask for the crew change?
a. hitchhiking forum
b. road dog forum
c. nowhere at all
d. trainhopping forum

a theoretical 'rite of willful registry' such as that could force people to acknowledge the rules before being able to post

only an idea, to play devil's advocate, not feeling too passionate about it one way or another - but perhaps in the long term it could prevent issues like OP created
those are some very good suggestions. i've been looking at some kind of addon that would give us the ability to force people to view the rules page before posting, and there are a few different choices so we'll probably implement something like that in the near future.

the other stuff makes me nervous because it's always been important to me to keep StP open and not be 'gatekeepers' as others have insisted we do in the past. it's always a balancing act to keep the community useful without excluding people unjustly.
 

roguetrader

Wanderer
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
439
Hometown
Exeter, United Kingdom
unfortunately I imagine a lot of people click to say they've read the rules and conditions of a forum without actually bothering to do so.... I admit I did this when first joining STP - its only when I began to value the community that I went back and read all the introductory stuff... I think this is the inherent problem - until you know you want to be part of an online community (through participation) the rules and regulations don't mean much to you ! they only become important to the casual user later, whereas a forum owner and moderators want the rules obeyed from day one....
 

Matt Derrick

Semi-retired traveler
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Admin
Joined
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Messages
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Hometown
Austin, TX
Website
youtube.com
unfortunately I imagine a lot of people click to say they've read the rules and conditions of a forum without actually bothering to do so.... I admit I did this when first joining STP - its only when I began to value the community that I went back and read all the introductory stuff... I think this is the inherent problem - until you know you want to be part of an online community (through participation) the rules and regulations don't mean much to you ! they only become important to the casual user later, whereas a forum owner and moderators want the rules obeyed from day one....
this is 100% truth, and i'm guilty of it just as much as anyone else. that's why i try not to be toooo hard on new users, but also reminding them where the rules can be found once they're ready to read them. but of course, not reading them doesn't exclude you from following them... so it's a bit of a catch 22.
 

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