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All Who Wander

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Thats right folks, guarenteed minimum income is on its way and if your homeless or working poor living in Stockton CA you may already be getting an extra 500 bucks a month...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiB1qWqidzfAhWDLn0KHVOuDysQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-income/california-city-fights-poverty-with-guaranteed-income-idUSKCN1J015D?mod=article_inline&psig=AOvVaw1tBNoQWx2amXirwOl_UN4V&ust=1546964325953461

But it dosen't end there... get ready cause Andrew Yang is running as a Democrat for president in 2020 and he wants to give everybody 1,000 a month!
https://www.yang2020.com/

But that news comes with a bit of a downer... ya see Yang says theres really no choice, when vehicle automation (self driving cars trucks busses fork lifts etc) hit in the next 5-10 years, 20%+ of the workforce will go belly up, and thats not counting all the other jobs advanced automation will be (and already is) replacing... in essence he's saying all westernized nations are going to go into total economic collapse as all the jobs disappear, and the only way to preserve any form of normalcy is to hemorage cash to the tens of millions of soon to be jobless and likely homeless.

But then if that happens you think our plutocratic overlords in the less than 1% are going to stick around and have their bank accounts drained to pay for it or do you think they will jump on L-5 jets and become proud new citizens of the isle of man and pay 0 taxes?

Anyway this rolls I expect a whole lot more athoritarianism and no thats not something I look forward to.

So I expect STP will get a lot more popular soon. Your thoughts?
 

Matt Derrick

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universal basic income is still a long way off, and isn't necessarily a bad thing, although the right-wingers will certainly have a shit fit considering how much they complain over welfare. not corporate welfare mind you, that they're totally cool with.
 
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Geraldo

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Yeah like half my taxes go to the motherfucking Waltons. Why the fuck would I care if half my taxes go to people who aren't already wealthier than God?
 
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All Who Wander

All Who Wander

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Is it a long way off? Its like a 4hr drive for me, and it's Yang's main talking point, for him its less than a few years away.

But the automation thing is no joke, LA county had something like 1,200 electric meter readers then when they put in the new smart meters that went to 12.

In my neck of the woods job wise there is a hotel in Simi valley that uses a phone app for check-in and room key and uses robot bellhops to deliver towels, room service etc.

And this automation, especially self serve kiosks, seem to be spreading at light speed. Ok you just passed a $15.00 per hour minimum wage? Guess its time to spend 50k on having a new robotic shelf stocker and fire another 20 walmart employees at every store. This shit is happening now.
 

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I'm convinced we're headed for a major (economic) depression before any of that goes into effect.

All Who Wander - I don't wish to make you uncomfortable by singling you out but I'm fascinated by your presence on this site
 
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All Who Wander

All Who Wander

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Yeah like half my taxes go to the motherfucking Waltons. Why the fuck would I care if half my taxes go to people who aren't already wealthier than God?
Because soon if your lucky enough have a job, your pay is gonna plumet and the taxes you do pay might go up another 50%. Seen that Matt Damon movie "Elysium"? LA in that movie might be a good representation for whats on the way...
 

highwayman

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People should have the basic universal human rights that are already guaranteed but not yet distributed equally in our societies. People have rights to adequate food. shelter, health, employment, security, water & rights of movement. These things can universally be deduced to being right & wrong. Many of us here on STP believe in socialism and take full advantage of our health/dental insurance, transitional assistance, unemployment assistance, SSi/SSDi, USDA subsidized EBT/SNAP benefits/ food pantries & fuel assistance.

Do I think I cannot survive & thrive better while receiving such benefits? You are damn right I can!!! I will survive even if/when they change the rules to benefit the elite class. Most likely since this was a creation of the right wring; elite society will simply move the goal posts in a centrist way so that all of the elite can profit. Others will find ways to profit through greed as they always do. If we all receive a basic income; will that not mean that housing prices could simply increase to keep the masses in serfdom? I imaging that without having universal access to regulated affordable housing that this too could happen. It sounds so very soicalist to me which must be why it scares you. Maybe the cost of food, wifi, heat, water, electricity will become so expensive that families will again have to pick & choose which luxuries they will pay for on their fixed income each month.

Regardless of the amount of income I have earned I would never have a bank account or pay taxes. Many societies have woke up in the morning to learn that their currency was again worthless, their land and valuables seized etc. It really is all like monopoly money if you think about it. By removing the game, I have learned to not care about the outcome. I am not a player and not really a spectator of how the majority plays. The sheep can go try to collect $200 aka their tax return, apply for a balloon payment mortgage and hopefully agree to buy Baltic Avenue over 20 years. My wealth exists between my ears while your idea of wealth exists in you wallet.

With automation & increasing productivity many jobs do in fact go away; its industrial evolution. We can & do produce goods, food & all resources more efficiently than we ever have!!!! EVERYONE does not need to work! Most jobs are useless & many workers are simply idiots. Too many kids are educated in school to become workers while never really educated to become thinkers. More people should live better lives of leisure; maybe you would read more, take in the arts, interact with friends instead of being a troll here online, you could travel & volunteer. Too many people slave away their lives with the intention to do X,Y or Z in retirement yet never live long enough to feel comfortable to leave the security of their meaningless career. Perhaps when your job is eliminated you can then go volunteer at a soup kitchen to serve your fellow man, utilizing the hospitality skills that once drove them away from your former hotels complimentary breakfast? With such a basic income you could finally live a quality life and maybe not be so afraid & defeated. We are free people, you sound so utterly enslaved.

My small family has had a tax free income as high as $150k a year and as low as $7,200 per year. You should try living a simple & intentional life. Have you ever even heard of intentional poverty? Do you know that our quality of life has not suffered in spite of the income disparage. Many of us at STP have figured out how to exist & thrive anywhere with what ever resources we have access to.

Everyone should benefit from the exploitation of capitalism. We have a socialist underbelly & always have. Many people believe in adhering to some basic amount of fairness & good. We are already collectively destroying the ecosystem where the poorest of the poor will suffer most. There are huge profits & surpluses in the world. We are supposed to be a civilized society yet praise our vulgar ignorance. Slavery supposedly required free labor, then industry figured out how to entice & influence low wage unskilled immigration & migration. We live in a global economy that exploits for profit. Think of our third world neighbors who are now manufacturing all lour throwaway goods for pennies a day.

You always sound so fucking bitter. You seem to be a entitled drone of a man who lives in a bubble of ignorance. You are a fear-monger and a true online troll. Do you really think that your hard labor & petty taxes are unnecessarily funding a global welfare state? Many nations have free healthcare, affordable housing & welfare programs for their populace. You work at a 2 star hotel! You probably earn less than $40-$50k a year. There are people who spend that for a weekend hotel suite. You are not an elite, you are just a divisive drone who cannot see which class you exist in. You definitely must know that your job is meaningless & that as a citizen that you are almost entirely useless. You say that you are educated with a double masters degree but you act so insane & uneducated. Do you not realize that we are all real people & this is a real community?

Are you here to try to recruit & rehabilitate us backwards bums to join your community or are you here to join ours?
 
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Juan Derlust

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C'mon now - show some tolerance

(as I put my bullshit detector on STUN...)
 

noothgrush

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Yeah like half my taxes go to the motherfucking Waltons. Why the fuck would I care if half my taxes go to people who aren't already wealthier than God?
Alot of taxpayers that lack your insight are going to be pretty bitter about paying people they feel contribute nothing to society. Not my personal opinion but I have hears it time and time again.
 

Juan Derlust

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In a consumer economy all we need to contribute is our unlimited appetite
 
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All Who Wander

All Who Wander

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before I respond to the wall of text crit, just wanted to say glad the other posters here find the topic interesting, Juan- you can totally single me out, lol I'm pretty used to it, maybe even crave it a little. I'm just glad anything I do can "fascinate" anyone. That made my day.
 

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All good - I'm not trying to shut you up or wall you out; we're all opinionated here. i'm easily fascinated - what can I say?
Regarding the article, it's a privately funded year and a half long experiment- it'll be interesting to see what if any conclusions can be drawn
 
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All Who Wander

All Who Wander

I'm a d-bag and got banned.
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People should have the basic universal human rights that are already guaranteed but not yet distributed equally in our societies. People have rights to adequate food. shelter, health, employment, security, water & rights of movement. These things can universally be deduced to being right & wrong. Many of us here on STP believe in socialism and take full advantage of our health/dental insurance, transitional assistance, unemployment assistance, SSi/SSDi, USDA subsidized EBT/SNAP benefits/ food pantries & fuel assistance.

Do I think I cannot survive & thrive better while receiving such benefits? You are damn right I can!!! I will survive even if/when they change the rules to benefit the elite class. Most likely since this was a creation of the right wring; elite society will simply move the goal posts in a centrist way so that all of the elite can profit. Others will find ways to profit through greed as they always do. If we all receive a basic income; will that not mean that housing prices could simply increase to keep the masses in serfdom? I imaging that without having universal access to regulated affordable housing that this too could happen. It sounds so very soicalist to me which must be why it scares you. Maybe the cost of food, wifi, heat, water, electricity will become so expensive that families will again have to pick & choose which luxuries they will pay for on their fixed income each month.

Regardless of the amount of income I have earned I would never have a bank account or pay taxes. Many societies have woke up in the morning to learn that their currency was again worthless, their land and valuables seized etc. It really is all like monopoly money if you think about it. By removing the game, I have learned to not care about the outcome. I am not a player and not really a spectator of how the majority plays. The sheep can go try to collect $200 aka their tax return, apply for a balloon payment mortgage and hopefully agree to buy Baltic Avenue over 20 years. My wealth exists between my ears while your idea of wealth exists in you wallet.

With automation & increasing productivity many jobs do in fact go away; its industrial evolution. We can & do produce goods, food & all resources more efficiently than we ever have!!!! EVERYONE does not need to work! Most jobs are useless & many workers are simply idiots. Too many kids are educated in school to become workers while never really educated to become thinkers. More people should live better lives of leisure; maybe you would read more, take in the arts, interact with friends instead of being a troll here online, you could travel & volunteer. Too many people slave away their lives with the intention to do X,Y or Z in retirement yet never live long enough to feel comfortable to leave the security of their meaningless career. Perhaps when your job is eliminated you can then go volunteer at a soup kitchen to serve your fellow man, utilizing the hospitality skills that once drove them away from your former hotels complimentary breakfast? With such a basic income you could finally live a quality life and maybe not be so afraid & defeated. We are free people, you sound so utterly enslaved.

My small family has had a tax free income as high as $150k a year and as low as $7,200 per year. You should try living a simple & intentional life. Have you ever even heard of intentional poverty? Do you know that our quality of life has not suffered in spite of the income disparage. Many of us at STP have figured out how to exist & thrive anywhere with what ever resources we have access to.

Everyone should benefit from the exploitation of capitalism. We have a socialist underbelly & always have. Many people believe in adhering to some basic amount of fairness & good. We are already collectively destroying the ecosystem where the poorest of the poor will suffer most. There are huge profits & surpluses in the world. We are supposed to be a civilized society yet praise our vulgar ignorance. Slavery supposedly required free labor, then industry figured out how to entice & influence low wage unskilled immigration & migration. We live in a global economy that exploits for profit. Think of our third world neighbors who are now manufacturing all lour throwaway goods for pennies a day.

You always sound so fucking bitter. You seem to be a entitled drone of a man who lives in a bubble of ignorance. You are a fear-monger and a true online troll. Do you really think that your hard labor & petty taxes are unnecessarily funding a global welfare state? Many nations have free healthcare, affordable housing & welfare programs for their populace. You work at a 2 star hotel! You probably earn less than $40-$50k a year. There are people who spend that for a weekend hotel suite. You are not an elite, you are just a divisive drone who cannot see which class you exist in. You definitely must know that your job is meaningless & that as a citizen that you are almost entirely useless. You say that you are educated with a double masters degree but you act so insane & uneducated. Do you not realize that we are all real people & this is a real community?

Are you here to try to recruit & rehabilitate us backwards bums to join your community or are you here to join ours?
ok here goes...

Firstly everyone mark this moment, take a screenshot, you will never again see such a perfect crystal clear example of a forum edgelord completely losing his shit.

I mean really, read this…

“Do I think I cannot survive & thrive better while receiving such benefits? You are damn right I can!!!”

Wow, now that’s powerful! So you can cannot survive while… oh never mind it’s awesome!

The next part really hits it… you state that greedy people will always find ways to profit, but you think that won’t carry over into a socialist system? Interesting. Btw, nothing about socialism scares me, more assumption there, same way you assumed I’m a capitalist even after I told you I don’t care about money, and how you assumed I am a MAGA Trump supporter, when I told you I didn’t vote for him and nothing will make america great again if it ever was… so also very wrong, maybe you should stop making such grand assumptions, you’re not very good at it.

Then it gets more interesting… you would never pay taxes but you would always take advantage of “health/dental insurance, transitional assistance, unemployment assistance, SSi/SSDi, USDA subsidized EBT/SNAP benefits/ food pantries & fuel assistance.” so I get it I think, you said in another thread you are ok with being a liar and a thief, so pretty much you just want to steal and not contribute, or I guess contribute bad art and judgemental pseudo intellectual unjustified opinions based on flawed assumptions. Alright I guess, to each their own.

Next you say me and basically anyone with a job is an uneducated indoctrinated slave, and not a great thinker like you… then kind of imply that because I care about my job, my business, and the people I work with… I’m afraid and defeated, while not having a job, or seemingly any sense of honor you are free. Um ok I guess, opinions are like armpits and all... Go you!

Then you talk about how STP members survive and thrive with very little resources… um there's a lot of threads on this site talking about people who just up and disappeared or died young, very young, and very recently… I think I’m calling BS on that one… I would bet money the survival index of the average STP member is a hell of a lot shorter than societal average. That’s really not a good thing… and because of that I really doubt the quality of life is on the same level either. Heck people on here are talking about not being able to take a hot shower or bath for months, have all kinds of lice and parasites… might be just my opinion but having your taint infested with dangerous parasites because you can’t bathe… that’s some low quality life right there. Big time.

Then you rage about the injustices of a world capitalist economy… as if a world socialist economy wouldn't be just as twisted and flawed. Oh you need a new liver? Sign right here to be on the 8 yr waiting list, hope ya make it, and the line for one jar of baby formula goes around three blocks. Got news for ya, all of mankind is flawed. No system humans will create will eliminate selfishness, greed or exploitation, and the absolute chaos that would result in even trying at this point would create instability like you could not immagine. You think things are bad now? Look at the poor in India, Calcutta, go climb a mountain of garbage looking for edible trash with 1000 other starving people and supplement your family's diet by eating human feces. Jesus. Noble suffering? Intentional poverty? Try that shit there. Literally. That’s real poverty, and mark my words same thing will happen here eventually, maybe real soon, and socialism won’t save anyone from it anymore than capitalism, anarchism, or democracy will. And I’m the mindless drone? Keep fantasizing.

“Many nations have free healthcare, affordable housing and welfare…” you mean all those nations that are now shifting to ultra right wing populist movements? The ones with the 50% unemployment rates, continuous riots and faction gang fighting? Those countries? Sure their doin just awesome right now, ask their enraged citizens with the bricks and molotovs.

Then you just go on to more wrong… misconstruing more of what I said and telling me I’m meaningless, my job is meaningless, and i'm an idiot because class war bs… yada yada yada… great.

At least you finally ask a question at the end of this wall of text tirade, am I here to recruit and rehabilitate you backward bums to join my community or am I here to join yours… (facepalm) I have joined your community see I’m responding to your post right now.

Look, I get it. I don't completely agree with almost any aspect of your world view, so you want to label me, categorize me, and outline me as some kind of villain so you can turn people against me. (which by the way is pretty hypocritical considering your recent posts complaining about how people in society do this to you.) Capitalist, fascist, MAGA supporter, ultra-troll, what else ya got because none of those have worked. I’m none of those labels.

You want a few, (Sorry Juan, I think I'm gonna break the fascination here) how bout misantropic absurdist. Chew on that for a bit.
 

highwayman

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you can totally single me out, lol I'm pretty used to it, maybe even crave it a little.
Look, I get it. I don't completely agree with almost any aspect of your world view, so you want to label me, categorize me, and outline me as some kind of villain so you can turn people against me.
how bout misantropic absurdist.
So here we are. You are just a poor misunderstood Misanthropic Absurdist who disagrees with all of our collective worldview and you crave the attention of being singled out. This kinda screams troll to me. I want to find your humanity somewhere so that we can have a dialogue but everything you say feels intentionally & absurdly toxic. Its amost as if you seek out platforms to spew your fear based/fatalist rhetoric in order to create online conflict & infighting among groups you oppose.

I do not need to label or mislabel you; you are doing a fine job at turning people against you here at STP on your own.
 
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Juan Derlust

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Don't apologize -
or no apology necessary rather -
I'm just curious as to your reasoning for visiting/posting on this site.
It's difficult to gauge someone's tone in this medium and we tend to operate under various assumptions - I don't know either you or highwayman, but I assume you both come here to exchange ideas or amuse yourselves reading vagabond escapades. I know - assumption... Anyway, I have this fantasy we're all angling for some greater good through understanding eachother better, developing a respectful appreciation for varying viewpoints. You strike me as a thoughtful, intelligent individual. I can't compose my thoughts quick enough before I get a reaction alert - hooray technology. Anyway, what do YOU think about Mayor Tubb's experiment? I'm trying to absorb the fact he's 27 & mayor of Stockton! That, and 1 in 4 lives in poverty there...
The core idea of the article you shared is worth considering - although as experiments go it probably needs a broader scale to gain any useful data
 
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Matt Derrick

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@All Who Wander okay, so at this point I feel like I need to ask what it is you hope to accomplish by participating in this community/website. because while you're not technically breaking the rules, 90%+ of your posts are of a inflamatory nature designed to rile up those with differing options from yourself. I could classify this as trolling, but I'm going to give you a chance to state your purpose here before taking action.

TL;DR - are you here to learn/discuss travel as it concerns this community? or are you just here to rant your political views? because if it's the former, I'm going to have to ask you to go do that somewhere else.
 
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All Who Wander

All Who Wander

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There ya go with more wrong assumptions highwayman, very little if anything has meaning to an absurdist so I don't really fear anything much, but please don't ever stop. I love you just the way you are. btw what dialog are you hoping to reach? That's kind of interesting.

Juan, well maybe the wind kicked up and just blew the circus away and I showed up here (heh), or I got bored of playing red dead, or I enjoy forums in general, especially the ones where people seriously consider themselves really radical (!!!)

Humm... I have trouble with concepts of good and evil, I have subjective value judgement viewpoints on those but can't say I really accept a greater good any more than a greater evil but that's pretty far out there. I do value a well thought out honest individual viewpoint, TED talks etc, but tend to think most people just copypasta shit they read that they think is cool and might get them laid. I don't run into many true individualists online or otherwise.

The experiment... I don't know... I know arizona was doing a thing where they were giving homeless people apartments and not requiring more than meeting with social workers. overall they found they saved a crap ton of money on medical expenses that the homeless now in the apartments didn't end up using. That was pretty insightful, then again maybe it just says more about insanely high medical costs.

but just giving money out... don't think it will work. Didn't work in the two year study Finland did. bottom line, people spend money on shit they don't really need. Same will happen here. Plus... if you have to work for the money you get I think you appreciate it more, tend to be more careful with it, if you don't have to do anything to get it, your probably more likely just to piss it away. "I got a new iguana woot!" Also... everyone has a tendency to live to the very edge of their means... if you give an extra 500 a month, people will complain, rage, and want more almost immediately, real gratitude or thankfulness isn't high on the priority list for most people.

Have you looked at the universe 25 experiment... I kind of think this is what happens when you give people utopia...
 

Matt Derrick

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@All Who Wander okay, so at no point did you come even close to answering my question. this isn't a place for you to experiment with your views or to just rile up people.

since it's become fairly obvious you're not interested in engaging with this community in a meaningful way or for the purpose it was built for, I am banning your account.
 
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