Is Green Energy really Clean Energy ?? (1 Viewer)

OTTERWOLF

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You know, I don't like being lied to... and since about late December, and definately earlier this year I've been questioning the validity of solar energy and wind energy, wondering if it is really worth it.
I came close to buying a new hybrid vehicle, but wound up with my 2002 Monte Carlo SS instead... and some of that was because I started to educate myself on how the batteries are made, along with useful life, etc....

Anyhow, last night I got turned on to this: Say what you want about Michael, but he really nailed it here.

I stated hearing that solar and wind energy was nothing more than a money making brainwashing hoax from a whack job named James Mccanny who has a science program on shortwave radio [anyone beside me listen to the airwaves ??] and he was stating how the whole thing is a hoax, and why.... but now after watching this video, I have completely changed my views on supposed clean green energy, since now it is apparently actually a very dirty source of fuel from the get go.....

But, judge for yourselves, the video is quite long, about an hour and forty minutes maybe, but I think it's really worth it.
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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Yes I am.... did you watch the whole video ??
It really got me seeing things very different than I originally thought....
Like I said, I don't like being lied to.
*edit - especially from the supposed good guys.
 
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Ya, my 15 yr old solar panel that's been powering my spot for the last 4 yrs is totally a government conspiracy. Shoulda been buying and burning Diesel that whole time!
 

SlankyLanky

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Yes I am.... did you watch the whole video ??
It really got me seeing things very different than I originally thought....
Like I said, I don't like being lied to.
*edit - especially from the supposed good guys.
No I didnt even click the link. Because I can smell bullshit without having to directly put my nose into it.

Yer buying into some wingnut conspiracy stuff. Solar and especially wind energy are absolutely viable forms of power that are not only cheaper for you, but they also dont kill the planet quite as much as other forms of energy.
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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ok.... I see where this is going.....

I guess since nobody is going to bother watch this - @SlankyLanky you want me to delete this or do you want to delete this ??

Either way works for me.......
 
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I mean if you wanna actually summarize the main arguments and provide links that back them up I'm all ears. I'm not gonna attempt to stream a 1hr movie by some shortwave wingnut who's probably some Koch operative.
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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@Beegod Santana I think on a small scale solar and wind is very good, but not on a mass scale, like trying to power an entire city or metropolitian area.
It simply can't be done without using fossil fuels or exploiting huge open spaces of land - or wilderness for that matter.
Don't get me wrong, I wish I could be done, but after viewing this I seriously have my doubts.
 
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SlankyLanky

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@OTTERWOLF I'm sorry if me and one other person disagreeing with you is all it takes for you to want to delete yer post. Would you prefer people not try to tell you when you are wrong or not bother to share their opinions?

Didn't you undeleted yer profile before and say you were going to not take people disagreeing with you so personally in the future?

There is no valid reason for this thread to be deleted. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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It's not from that shortwave looney, this is a Michael Moore film, and it's the first one I've seen that he's done right - in my opinion....

But hey, it's all good.

Time to enjoy a nice sunny afternoon outside with my dog :)
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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@SlankyLanky yes you are correct, but that was something completely different.

And no, I just get pissed off when people jump to conclusions before checking things out for themselves.

I'm at a point in my life where I trust/believe no one.

I came across this link at of all places a Trapping Forum that I belong to, and there's a real shit show there because those who refuse to watch it say its crap, those who sat through it say it's done quite well and gets you thinking.

I thought it might not be a bad idea to post it here.
I'm just kind of surprised that there is zero interest in watching something like this.

It's cool, another lesson learned for me here.......
I'm out - play time with my dog :)
 

Odin

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@OTTERWOLF I think you are correct it is a matter of scale to an extent.

Having a personal wind and solar setup to power your small house/cabin is great.... although geothermal would be my choice if possible.

I will check the vid later but a simple search had me find this from NPR from a concern I remember with wind... anyone gonna call NPR wingnuts?

So lets see how friendly wind power can be on a mega scale.


replacing, disposing of (landfills) and transporting the turbine blades is what is discussed there I think.


this part of wiki gives great examples of how I would like to see wind power implemented more... such as an example of a drum? type turbine mounted atop a light pole... if every single light pole in neighborhoods and along main roads and highways was set up like this....
 
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My bad, shitty connection and what not. I'm no fan of Michael Moore either though. I've never watched his early stuff but everything I've seen from him since bowling for Columbine was pretty much junk. He sets out to prove he's right, and just ignores anything that might prove otherwise. Tons of appeals to emotions too which always drives me nuts.
 

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I skimmed through the vid in about 30 minutes; essentially green energy is about dollas, exploiting ignorance, and maximum profit like everything else. Makes sense.

Admittedly, I dont know much about the subject, so those who are more educated please chime in;
But this seems far more feasible if Americans were less wasteful and excessive with energy usage; if we were more considerate of how much energy we were using.
In my experience, America is the only country where everyone has a full size fridge, dryers, big ol dishwashers, etc. A lot of people have a basement/garage/beer fridge in addition too the one in their kitchen. Other countries most people have much smaller fridges, hang their clothes after washing, and just way fewer outlets in general. SUVs are pretty rare in other countries.
We would rather find solutions for irresponsible behavior rather than change that behavior.

When I'm living in my 5th wheel, my freezer is winter time. :)
 

Stiv Rhodes

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The point of the film wasn't that solar and wind promotion is a brainwashing hoax. It was that industrialization can't be sustainable and that greenwashing/green capitalism is an refusal to admit that.
 

Jackthereaper

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@Beegod Santana I think on a small scale solar and wind is very good, but not on a mass scale, like trying to power an entire city or metropolitian area.
It simply can't be done without using fossil fuels or exploiting huge open spaces of land - or wilderness for that matter.
I agree that solar and wind especially can be very damaging to local fuana. But, gen4 nuclear is coming and i for one hope we embrace it. Using molten salt reactors to burn off old nuclear waste and decomissioned bombs makes a ton of sense to me, and its all demonstrably viable technology (as far as my limited minds grasp can tell).

India seems to be on it.
 
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OTTERWOLF

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Well, I just finished watching it... and the next person who asks me if I want to convert to solar energy for my home had better start running.

I always knew mankind was going out of their way to destroy forests, deserts, you name it - entire eco systems - all for the sake of the almighty dollar - I just had no idea it was being done on such a mass scale under the guise of green energy such as bio fuels and solar.

I'm really mad because i bought into the whole green movement, only to find out it's all a fucking lie.

Damn it, like - maybe 20 years ago - I got approached by a young woman who had loads of VHS-S and UMATIC video of the after effects of redwood destruction, not only the filming of it - but the devestation that followed, regarding the wildlife and how it never grew back.
She - I believe her name was Jessica - was experimenting with time lapse video, which I had not known to be possible at the time [although both my VHS-S-HD and UMATIC machine do have variable speed settings...] using video - film yes, but video I did not believe was possible.

Anyhow, she got arrested before she got to drop off the videos at my studio, as I was to do the soundtrack work and editing... but it never happened, and truth be told I forgot all about it until the last 15 minute of this film which I linked here.

Those last 15 minutes really shook me up - starting with the dumping of the animals in that machine which grinds them up for animal fats... but the part with the dying primates was even worse.

I've seen such things out here myself in person when mass development occurs, and it is absolutely horrifying to bear witness to it knowing that there is nothing one can do to stop it.

With no contact info, it will be next to impossible to track Jessica down.

All I know is that she was a hardcore young enviromentalist who was setting out to be a documentary film maker while living out west, filming things that could have gotten her killed.

I'm appreciative of those who checked out the link I posted and get something from it.

I'll pray for those who feel it's all bullshit, that Green energy could never be bad.... because I used to feel the same exact way.

I'm out.
I got some phone calls to make.
 
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So I tried to watch the end and went right to the part where a guy is pointing at 45 150watt panels and saying it could only run a 1200 watt toaster. 45x150=6750 watts. Still a little weak to run a stage that size but I've run slightly smaller ones on 5kwatt generators before and it's over 5x what the guy in the video says.

Here's the thing too, they may be 200watt banks (9000watts total), I assume they're 150watt which is what my 15 yr old one is, but newer ones can be up to 200watt.

In conclusion, Michael Moore is a liar and a hack.
 
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OTTERWOLF

OTTERWOLF

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@Beegod Santana ok.. I can appreciate that - but let me ask you a question: how long can those panels run at rated output without any help from fossil fuels ??

I'm serious - can you get ten hours continious usage out of them if the sun is shining on them, at rated capacity ?? and then what happens when the sun ducks behind clouds ??

My only experience with solar is using a panel to keep the batteries in my mighty diesel van charged.

Like lets say I want to power my existing home with solar and get off the grid entirely where there is no connection to any utilities.

My elec bill is anywhere from $250.00 to $450.00 per month, depending on what kind of work the recording studio is seeing.

When the recording studio is in full operation, I am typically running three 20a circuits at say 12 amps, no wait - I know for sure one is pulling 15a continious.... and if there is working being performed upstairs as sometimes the artists choose to utilize both upstairs and downstairs for isolation reasons, and then that's like three to four more 15a circuits running probably at 8 - 10a, as I try not to push things too hard, and this is without factoring in AC in the summer, which will really drive up usage.

If I'm running a 10 hour session with that kind of power requirements - since my studio is old tube gear, can I do that with solar ??

I told one person a while back I require 120v 200a continuious service and he turned as white as a ghost because I do not like to max out my requirements, like I say I need 200a but it might be only 100a that I am using... so I do not max out my power requirements...

Would I need to have my entire garage filled with batteries ??
What happens when the panels fail, or the batteries turn to shit ??

Listen, don't get me wrong - I wish I could do this - but I can't and I am not willing to have panels all over the place which would fuck up my garden which is very wildlife and insect/bird friendly.

I'm just concerned that on a global level with the human population that we are ever expanding - green energy is not the way to go because of what is required to make it work and keep it going 24/7 no matter what.

On a side note, one year the electric company punished me by taking away my residential rates and making me commercial... and at first I was alarmed, but in the end my bills went down because the peak usage times literally reversed, and became very much in my favor.

Lastly - Michael Moore did not make that movie, the other guy did.
Michael Moore just put it out.

I really sincerely thought some might sit through the whole thing, I guess I was wrong.

No worries, I'll never post something like this ever again here as this is the wrong forum for such things.

Time to do more searching on line, as my phone calls yesterday got me closer to that eco film maker I am trying to track down....

Appologies for the typos, as I seem to get worse with that as time goes on.....
 
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A 2x4 lithium power bank can easily hold enough power to power a house. Your power use will depend on the size inverter you run. My panel is only 150, but once I use it to power 4 golf cart batteries (6hrs in the sun) I can run a 1000watt inverter for about an hour. I normally just use a 300watt one though at that will last me a whole day on 4 cart batteries.

My main point though is that the very first scene I saw in this movie is ripe with disinformation. Anyone slightly familiar with how solar works would know these guys are full of it, so obviously they're marketing this to people who know nothing about it. If you don't like being lied to than this is not the film for you.
 

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