I would like your honest opinion (especially the negative ones)

[Venatus]

hello everyone, its been ages since i bothered to tell my story, but things have changed as you would assume.

my name is jasper, and ive posted on here telling stories of my travels (not nearly as grand as some of yours) and the hardship and exoneration it brought me. but that is not where i am now, i am a student. i have never been honest about my intentions in the face of strangers, but here we are. i would like your most sincere and logical criticisms regarding the following (but if you wanna just be like FUK U BRUH- i wont really care either way)

also this is not "by the book" but if you have any opinions regarding that, i would gladly welcome it.

here are 6 basic rules i have learned about living self sufficently outside of the governments grasp-

All 6 are related to my experience in the environment of the slabs, as well as on the road whilst encountering other travelers.i would like to hear your views on how realistic they are- not in relation to the "real world" but the world we wish to create away from it.



The 6 tenants-



To live how you wish to, and preserve your personal health.



To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered



To defend what is yours before defending what is others



To mind your own business unless welcomed by another



To never turn before an enemy of equal strength



To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.



these tenants are intentionally ambiguous to allow diversity and refinement, and to keep individual freedoms first priority. they are classically unwritten, the neutral environment of our communities is what instills these rules, and i may not be entirely accurate in such areas. but i would like to hear your thoughts/criticisms regarding such things.

 

[iamwhatiam]

Sounds good except for the first one about living how you wish, I would add something after like "but not at the expense of others" or "as long as you dont hurt others". similar to the wiccan rede "do what thoust will as long as ye harm none"

 

[Kim Chee]

#1 is selfish and doesn't mention your regard for others

#2 is selfish and focuses on your needs (not the needs of others)

#3 is selfish...defense of material things you own?
Are you ready to die for a backpack?

#4 how can you mind your own business when somebody is hurting somebody who cannot defend themselves?

#5 how can you assume you have equal strength unless you fight for a month straight with no win/loss or submission. I don't think I've seen two equals fight, well matched maybe, but far from equal. Sooner or later a skull gets crushed.

#6 why all this talk about fighting, adversaries and strengths?


I try to avoid situations where I feel compelled to compare or compete with others.

If it were about somebody else, I'd find myself somewhere else.

 

[landpirate]

I've moved this over to the people & cultures section of the forum, I think it fits better there.

 

[Venatus]

I've moved this over to the people & cultures section of the forum, I think it fits better there.

alrighty, makes sense

 

[Venatus]

#1 is selfish and doesn't mention your regard for others

#2 is selfish and focuses on your needs (not the needs of others)

#3 is selfish...defense of material things you own?
Are you ready to die for a backpack?

#4 how can you mind your own business when somebody is hurting somebody who cannot defend themselves?

#5 how can you assume you have equal strength unless you fight for a month straight with no win/loss or submission. I don't think I've seen two equals fight, well matched maybe, but far from equal. Sooner or later a skull gets crushed.

#6 why all this talk about fighting, adversaries and strengths?


I try to avoid situations where I feel compelled to compare or compete with others.

If it were about somebody else, I'd find myself somewhere else.

i absolutely agree with all your points, now if you where to revise this, what would be your version of it?

 

[Venatus]

Sounds good except for the first one about living how you wish, I would add something after like "but not at the expense of others" or "as long as you dont hurt others". similar to the wiccan rede "do what thoust will as long as ye harm none"

perfect! thank you for your imput

 

[Venatus]

see i am testing to find a middleground, and while these rules are kind of odd and have many implications, i ultimately want peace, but i want people to be able to defend themselves, and treat eachother as equals. this is why these 6 tenants have alot of stuff related to minding your own buisness and dealing with conflicts. however they need some work, and as 7x pointed out, they imply many undesirable characteristics of a community view.

i would welcome more of your criticisms

 

[Tony Pro]

I think 7xMichael's interpretation is on the harsh side. Like you say, it's intentionally vague, so if I see someone crying in the street, I'll interpret rule #4 in such a way that it's okay for me to offer help, because that's what I know is right.

I dunno man, maybe it's possible to boil down a comprehensive theory of vagabond morality, but I also question whether there's a point in trying to make it universal, since everyone has a unique situation. I really like your list, even though a good portion of it doesn't reflect my life experience. For that reason I don't wanna suggest changes, but you ask for feedback so here's MY list of tenants as inspired by yours, but reflecting my own experience.

To live how you wish to, but don't profit from destruction

To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered (you've nailed that one)

Defend friends just as you would defend yourself, but where there's no kinship there's no obligation.

To mind your own business unless welcomed by another (again, this is ripe for interpretation)

To never take advantage of those weaker than you, even enemies

To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.

 

[Venatus]

I think 7xMichael's interpretation is on the harsh side. Like you say, it's intentionally vague, so if I see someone crying in the street, I'll interpret rule #4 in such a way that it's okay for me to offer help, because that's what I know is right.

I dunno man, maybe it's possible to boil down a comprehensive theory of vagabond morality, but I also question whether there's a point in trying to make it universal, since everyone has a unique situation. I really like your list, even though a good portion of it doesn't reflect my life experience. For that reason I don't wanna suggest changes, but you ask for feedback so here's MY list of tenants as inspired by yours, but reflecting my own experience.

To live how you wish to, but don't profit from destruction

To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered (you've nailed that one)

Defend friends just as you would defend yourself, but where there's no kinship there's no obligation.

To mind your own business unless welcomed by another (again, this is ripe for interpretation)

To never take advantage of those weaker than you, even enemies

To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.

This is excellent! i will definitely take note of it. i think you have a perfect understanding of the subject. thank you.
i like how you defined cause of obligation in relation to others, this is definitely something that needs to be improved upon.

 

[Kim Chee]

i absolutely agree with all your points, now if you where to revise this, what would be your version of it?

To live how you wish to, and preserve your personal health.
^the example left by @iamwhatiam is a fine idea for a revision of this rule


To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered
^take what you must to get by but be ready to give when you have



To defend what is yours before defending what is others
^No belongings are worth anybody suffering over, you can always get new gear/find a new camp



To mind your own business unless welcomed by another
^To poke your nose may mean getting your nose poked but be ready to step in to help those in need



To never turn before an enemy of equal strength
^Better to make a friend of an enemy than have blood drawn



To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.
^You're making me think too much, its been a long day...I hope you find this useful.

 

[Venatus]

To live how you wish to, and preserve your personal health.
^the example left by @iamwhatiam is a fine idea for a revision of this rule


To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered
^take what you must to get by but be ready to give when you have



To defend what is yours before defending what is others
^No belongings are worth anybody suffering over, you can always get new gear/find a new camp



To mind your own business unless welcomed by another
^To poke your nose may mean getting your nose poked but be ready to step in to help those in need



To never turn before an enemy of equal strength
^Better to make a friend of an enemy than have blood drawn



To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.
^You're making me think too much, its been a long day...I hope you find this useful.

 

[Venatus]

oops i fucked up the quote
i am glad you have presented your own version of this as well. let us continue to refine these 6 rules. your version is more focused on the travelers lifestyle, rather than self sufficiency and independance in an anarchist community, but that does not make them any less exceptional.

accidentally said that in the quote box

 

[Venatus]

fixed it

 

[Mankini]

you, i think, are presenting ethics. i am an aesthetics guy so i see all morality in terms of aesthetic appeal.
i.e., if its beautiful, do it. if not, dont do it. the more beautiful the act is, the more urgently, and forcefully, you should do it. some action is morally and aesthetically neutral...so i dont know what to say about that.

 

[Rob Nothing]

Tennant Number One: Be the very best you can be.

Tennant Number Two: Until some other finally comes and caves your head in. Figuratively, or literally.

Tennant Number Three: And then be better.

 

[pcflvly]

To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered
You nailed this one and as mentioned above the equivalent action is to give when you have.



To defend what is yours before defending what is others.
Everything you have was a gift and anything you have, you're likely to give away to someone who needs it more so I reject a material interpretation of this tenet. It relates more to our well being and the health of our community. It needs one more layer: To defend what is ours, then what is mine, then what is yours. And what then are we defending if not anything material? Integrity.

 

[Whereamiwhatdoido]

In order for a self-sustainable community to exist you'll need people who are willing to suffer, especially for others well-being. As a universal law of ethics I don't know how many tenants you'd need, but every personal identity should be capable of measuring his own motivation, for such a community to work.

On the contrary I've learned my ethics and people skills in a very authoritarian community, which had a non-hypocritical christian value. We shared everything, called nothing our own and we did exactly what we were told, and good deeds towards others. Therefore I've seen how a community can flourish and prosper and be good.

On the other hand I don't see how a anarchistic community would work, atleast not to the extend where survivability would be completely possible.

Because of our incapabilities as human beings to be good towards others I think it hard for such a community to work. Though if it's like an end-day scenario where people would be forced to live communally it would be different because people can submit and adapt better for survival than for fulfilling desires of utopian character.

I'm not sure how you're thinking about communal living, and in which form these properties you've presented were thought to fit in, could you please expand on the - way of life - that you've intentionally thought these prescripts into?

 

[Vulture]

hello everyone, its been ages since i bothered to tell my story, but things have changed as you would assume.

my name is jasper, and ive posted on here telling stories of my travels (not nearly as grand as some of yours) and the hardship and exoneration it brought me. but that is not where i am now, i am a student. i have never been honest about my intentions in the face of strangers, but here we are. i would like your most sincere and logical criticisms regarding the following (but if you wanna just be like FUK U BRUH- i wont really care either way)

also this is not "by the book" but if you have any opinions regarding that, i would gladly welcome it.

here are 6 basic rules i have learned about living self sufficently outside of the governments grasp-

All 6 are related to my experience in the environment of the slabs, as well as on the road whilst encountering other travelers.i would like to hear your views on how realistic they are- not in relation to the "real world" but the world we wish to create away from it.



The 6 tenants-



To live how you wish to, and preserve your personal health.



To only take what is needed for your survival, from what is offered



To defend what is yours before defending what is others



To mind your own business unless welcomed by another



To never turn before an enemy of equal strength



To always embrace honor and subtlety in the face of great adversaries.



these tenants are intentionally ambiguous to allow diversity and refinement, and to keep individual freedoms first priority. they are classically unwritten, the neutral environment of our communities is what instills these rules, and i may not be entirely accurate in such areas. but i would like to hear your thoughts/criticisms regarding such things.

I disagree with morality being a rigid and universal concept, for the most part. My only tenant is to do unto others as I would have done unto myself, Peter Kropotkin's Anarchist Morality. I find stretching morality into more detail is to make it less universal. Blah...

 

[Rob Nothing]

But, people are built differently. Their wants and needs are different and so the golden rule, daywbdb, is not always productive. I think using your brain and reading people to the best of your abilities is the safest bet. And those who can be bettered, will be.