Guns/gun violence - thoughts? (1 Viewer)

Dameon

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I'm not attacking you, I addressed you. Sorry you feel as though you're being attacked. I assure you I am not. But it's my perspective against yours I guess. I apologize if I made you feel that way.
Sorry man, but that was a personal attack, it's not that I "feel" as though I'm being attacked. You attacked me by going after my motivations, rather than addressing my argument. By making it about how I "want to control people", you're making the discussion about me as a person, rather than addressing the argument presented. It's not a matter of perspective; objectively, you made a statement that attacks my character. Either you did it consciously, or it was a mistake, but please don't try to play with sophistry to try and make it out like it didn't happen.

The argument isn't about whether or not I want to control people, the argument is about the effect of gun regulations on deaths.
 
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SaltyCrew

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Sorry man, but that was a personal attack, it's not that I "feel" as though I'm being attacked. You attacked me by going after my motivations, rather than addressing my argument. By making it about how I "want to control people", you're making the discussion about me as a person, rather than addressing the argument presented. It's not a matter of perspective; objectively, you made a statement that attacks my character. Either you did it consciously, or it was a mistake, but please don't try to play with sophistry to try and make it out like it didn't happen.

The argument isn't about whether or not I want to control people, the argument is about the effect of gun regulations on deaths.
Alright man, I apologize for attacking (holding you accountable for) your personal beliefs. I was only trying to understand where your motivations came from/what they are. No deception involved, I promise, I just personally do not consider it attacking. But hey, that's just my opinion.
 

Dameon

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Alright man, I apologize for attacking (holding you accountable for) your personal beliefs. I was only trying to understand where your motivations came from/what they are. No deception involved, I promise, I just personally do not consider it attacking. But hey, that's just my opinion.
My motivation is straightforward. I want less people to die because of guns. I don't know why you keep bothering with the non-apologies. You didn't attack my personal beliefs, you made it about my personal motivations, just like you continue to do, and said that I want to control people, which is an attack on me as a person. Either stronger gun regulations will save lives, or they won't, and that's independent of whether I'm a megalomaniac or not. Even if I was a baby-killing Nazi who wants to see the world bow before him, it would have zero effect on whether I'm right or wrong.
 

roughdraft

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it does make sense yeah, "controlling people" is an implicit part of any law. it's basically cheapening to the meaning and effect of a specific law to reduce it to.... "you *just* want to control people"
 

SaltyCrew

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My motivation is straightforward. I want less people to die because of guns. I don't know why you keep bothering with the non-apologies. You didn't attack my personal beliefs, you made it about my personal motivations, just like you continue to do, and said that I want to control people, which is an attack on me as a person. Either stronger gun regulations will save lives, or they won't, and that's independent of whether I'm a megalomaniac or not. Even if I was a baby-killing Nazi who wants to see the world bow before him, it would have zero effect on whether I'm right or wrong.
Right on man, I respect your intentions, also your ability to debate. I choose to "play devil's advocate" (for lack of a better term in 2019). I would like to see a world with no violent crime at all, where folks have the ability to decide right and wrong for themselves, ultimately choosing right, under their own accord. I believe we (you and I, please don't take this as an attack in my calculated assumption of your personal belief/motivation) have the same end goal, just a difference in means.
 

WyldLyfe

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I would like to see a world with no violent crime at all, where folks have the ability to decide right and wrong for themselves, ultimately choosing right, under their own accord.
^ This here is what it comes down to, to get to the point of it all.. Its about people knowing right from wrong, and choosing to do right or good. To add to your comment.

Law of freedom.
Freedom and morality are directly proportional. As morality increases, freedom increases. As morality declines freedom declines. Another way of stating this law would be to say that the presence of truth and morality in the lives of the people of any given society is inversely proportional to the presence of tyranny and slavery in that society. If a particular man made law is in harmony with natural law, then it follows logically that it is redundant, since it is stating a truth that is inherent, pre-existing and self evident, Therefore it is both irrelevant and unnecessary. If a particular man made law is in opposition to natural law, then it follows logically that it is both false (incorrect) and immoral (harmful) or in other words wrong. Therefore it can not be legitimately binding upon anyone.

Natural law
Based upon principles and truth (inherent to creation) Harmonized with due to knowledge and understanding. Universal; exists and applies anywhere in the universe, eternal and immutable; exists and applies as long as the universe exists, and cannot be changed.

Mans law
Based upon dogmatic beliefs (constructs of the mind) complied with due to fear of punishment. Differs with location based upon the whim of the legislators (moral relativism) changes with time based upon the whim of legislators (moral relativism)

True freedom can never exist in a society that embraces moral relativism (the idea that there is no inherent and objective difference between right and wrong, so humanity may arbitrarily “create” or “decide” right and wrong for themselves.)

Morality: Right: correct, truth, harmony, actions based in no harm unless for self defence or protection. Wrong: Incorrect, not based in truth, immoral, actions based in harm of other beings.
Every harmful action that a human being is capable of taking is a form of theft. Some form of property is always being stolen when a wrong-doing is committed. Life is a form of property, Rights is a form of property and Freedom is a form of property.

Anarchy: from the Greek prefix an-(av-) “without; the absence of” and the Greek noun archon “master; ruler” anarchy does not mean “without rules it literally means “without rulers; without masters.”

True freedom includes infinite possibility, which, by definition, includes the possibility of chaos. This possibility must be embraced without fear if we are to be truly free. The fear of the possibility of chaos is the fear of freedom, that does not mean do not take precautions in life when necessary.
 

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