Guns/gun violence - thoughts? (1 Viewer)

Juan Derlust

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What do the Gilroy Garlic Festival, El Paso Walmart, and a Dayton, OH bar all have in common? I'm not a gun owner, nor am I a gun rights advocate, however I don't know if assault weapons bans, background checks, or so-called red flag legislation can really prevent someone who is bound and determined to do harm from succeeding. I was remarking on @Coywolf's status how just over a week ago we were gassing on some individual who made peepee on some potatoes at Walmart. While I don't have any answers, I'm curious what people think in the United States AND in other countries.
 
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Coywolf

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These assault weapon bans are being driven by something other than gun control advocates. It worries me, And someone will do just as much damage with a semi auto hunting rifle.

I also hate it when people who know nothing about guns scream to ban "assault rifles", as if that is even a thing.

That being said, we need common sense gun laws. Expanded BG checks, mental health red flags, and mandatory training that is paid for by taxes on gun sales.

I will never support the police having more firepower than the citizenry
 

Shaggy Rogers

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We won our Independence using guns. if I want to take my musket out and blow a hole in some people, I can because that's exactly what we made this country for, although I'm not a psychopath so I don't. imagine that every person in America had a gun there would be a lot less mass shootings
 

BradKajukenbo

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I only own 1 gun which is a 30-30. I love hiking and camping. When I go camping I take it with me for protection against mountain lions and a little target practice. I don't want to kill an animal so all I've ever had to do is fire a shot off in the air and they scatter.

I don't know what to stay about all this gun violence but that its sad. I don't see things getting any better. Someone who really wants guns to commit these shootings, if they can't get a gun legally, eventually they will get one off the streets or a black market no matter what Gun Regulation Laws are in place. All the media coverage afterwards is just giving other idiots ideas.

A parent shouldn't have to fear sending their kids to school. A family shouldn't have to worry about getting shot up at the movies or a concert or even shopping.

While Nikolas Cruz was still a student at the school he shot up , administrators were warned that he was looking at guns on a school computer and told a schoolmate that he liked “to see people in pain.” A school official told the student who complained to mind his own business. That's what pisses me off. Students are taught to voice their concerns, yet that's the response.

How are things going to get better? What is the real solution? What are the signs to look for?
 

Jackthereaper

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Sadly many companies have capitalized on what exactly a “gun” is in this country. Its just the lower reciever. There are millions upon millions of home manufactured guns out in the wild. Look up 80% ar-15.

Legislation isnt the solution to this problem, honestly i dont think there is a solution that will work. Even arming every person wont do the job. That guy in walmart hit 43 out of 45 rounds in under 90 seconds with self defenders present.
 

BradKajukenbo

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When I was in school and you had a problem with another kid in school, you handled that problem behind the basketball courts. Then next day you were friends again. You didn't go home and get daddy's guns and kill 20 students.
 

Older Than Dirt

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I have owned firearms since i got my 10th birthday present, a "Sears and Roebuck" brand 10-shot bolt-action .22 rifle (have upgraded since; still have it though).

So i have owned at least one firearm at all times for more than 50 years now. Never even had occasion to point one at anyone in a violent life, though i've had plenty pointed at me.

A big deal the first 20 times or so, but you do always want to take it seriously even when you are used to it (kinda like being sued for big bucks). Most idiots that point a gun at you think they've got the world by its tail. Not so much. Blood is messy and dead bodies are hard to hide.

Tell them to suck your dick (regardless of whether you have one) when they point guns at you if they aren't 'The Man' (obey, and then sue, them). If they shoot and kill you anyway, at least you die proud, and they generally don't (so far so good, knocks wood). Probably they will miss anyway as they are an asshole and don't practice, even from 3' away..

I used to be an NRA member a long time ago (had to join up at age 10 as member of my Junior High School Rifle Team, and High School Rifle Team (til i got expelled)).

I like and own guns, and have no problem with shooting folks who fuck with me, mine, or those i like, love, or who are the underdog in anything.

But there is no doubt that guns in America are mainly about insane far-right white racist cowards arming themselves against the imaginary brown hordes. Most US gun owners would shit and then drop their "SUPER-DUPER-PENIS-MAN-WHO-IS- DEF-NOT-A- BIG -OVERWEIGHT-COWARD ASSAULT RIFLE with FLASH HIDER and many TACTICOOL SHITS" ,and run if a porcupine tried to take their sandwich if they ever went in the woods, instead of OPEN-CARRYING at Starbucks and the mall.

I would favor banning all semi-automatic firearms NOW and going back to revolvers, and pump and lever action long guns. PLENTY were killed with such firearms when they were all that was available, for the cowardly or bloodthirsty. Including for "The Man" naturally- can't take away firepower from the people without taking it awy from those who "protect and serve".

Buybacks at generous terms for all such guns, stiff criminal penalties for possession after that- it worked n Australia.

i have to wonder why any gun-owner would be against this. If you have to defend your kids against 30-50 feral hogs per yesterday's big meme, maybe you are a shitty parent and should move?

And if any "anarchists" want to argue with this in favor of "community self defense", come on down.

Been an anarchist gun-nut with an IWW card since before your daddy and mama was born. Be sure to pull out the Malatesta, Sanguinetti, Makhno, etc. and review first. Maybe i can talk some sense into you.

Disclaimer: i do not practice law, but rather am an elderly and often drunk armed lunatic, AND HAVE IN FACT THIS VERY DAY BEEN DRINKING FOR [CHECKS] HOWEVER THE FUCK MANY HOURS THERE ARE BETWEEN 9 AM AND 6:15 PM- so what?. By all that is sacred, nothing contained in this post could possibly be construed as legal advice by anyone not dumber than a hammer. As always, everyone should always get legal advice from a competent attorney admitted in their jurisdiction before defending themself against, or assaulting, or failing to assault, or failing to defend themself against, anyone whatever, or doing, or failing to do, anything whatever. I hope this is all clear now.
 
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SlankyLanky

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Just a general heads up since I have a feeling this thread will turn sour at some point I wanna remind anyone who posts in this thread to please remain civil and what not.

I kinda don't wanna write any den of the banned posts right now.
 

James Meadowlark

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I almost think it's something environmental- Lead poisoning in paint and emmissions, chemicals in the food/air etc. Maybe the anomie that comes with the internet/social media and lack of real human contact kids seem to experience these days...

I mean, America's always been full of guns, literally since before our founding. We've been gun nuts forever and have had tons and tons in private hands as long as we've been a nation...

And we've always had "military" style weapons in their civilian form on the consumer market- It's capitalism 101.. Colt started selling AR-15s to the public in 1964! And we've had comblock AKs on and off since the 70's depending on sanctions. Before that it was M14 civilian models, M1 Garands, etc. So civilian versions of military guns have always been on the market for the public to buy, and the public has always bought them, but we didn't seem to have this sort of mass shooting deal until the last decade or so..

Just seems like the last 15 years or so something changed with the people, or maybe society and alienation from the internet. Maybe chemical too, since I didn't know a single person with a peanut allergy or celiac disease when I grew up in the 70s and 80s, but now it seems like those folks are everywhere... Maybe it's economic as well with the disintegration of the middle class, wage stagnation, and the death of the American dream.. I think young people see themselves as having to work twice as hard as their grandparents for half the benefit, and just don't know how to channel that frustration in ways that aren't destructive.

It just makes me so sad that these shooters didn't have anyone to be there for them before they snapped. Fucking tragic.
 
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Juan Derlust

Juan Derlust

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Yeah, I started this thread to read folks' ideas and get a sense of everyone's position - I'm not anti-gun & I don't think anyone is thrilled about these mass shootings; I'd rather read what people here have to say than some op/ed nerdgel in an ivory tower. Folks in other countries have guns but there seems to be something in U.S. culture. Don't get me wrong, I love this country deeply - but I worry about it becoming even more of a police-state.
 
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Older Than Dirt

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Anyone reading this who doesn't know about the John Brown Gun Clubs, or Redneck Revolt, ("Putting The RED back in 'Redneck''") might want to check them out:


Anarchist, communist, and socialist folks who are organizing and armed; mnay are vets of The Endless War In The Mid-East. They train, and do armed defense of threatened communities against the Fascists.

Most Republicans who hear about them will probably favor universal disarmament by next week.

So if you are a commie or anarch who likes to shoot, join up. If you are a leftie that hates guns, join up too, and maybe "gun control" will finally happen.

"Uncle/Auntie* ANARCHY Wants YOU!'
["Uncle/Auntie Anarchy" is pointing that finger at YOU]
--------------
* Homonym (pronounced the same as) of "anti" ("against")- a pun.
 
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Juan Derlust

Juan Derlust

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John Brown is one of those mad heroes us white folks can embrace without shame

& @James Meadowlark I gotta ask about your avatar - what the hell happened?
 

BradKajukenbo

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The first gun I had shot, I was 10. My stepdad had an SKS. But we only got to shoot it once.

I guess my right side in the matter, I believe a person should be able to own any gun they want. Now myself, I don't own an "Assault" rifle. I feel there isn't any need or reason for me to own one. I doubt in my life time anyone is going to home invade me for the few dollars I have or for the one plant I grow.

[Gun Fact: The AR-15 stand for ArmaLite Design #15. Sold to Colt in 1959. AR does not stand for "Assault Rifle"]

I can see an assault rifle useful in the military. Whats wrong with a shotgun for home defense or the 30-30? To each his own the way I guess.

I do believe that most of the guns that are on the street come from the Cartels and so many of them come from home burglaries. If gun owners are more responsible an use gun safes, many guns ending up on the streets will stop. How many people own dozens of guns, invite people into their homes and brag and show off their guns and where they are kept? Then wonder why they come home from work and their guns are gone.

The gun doesn't kill people. The person holding it does. But how do you keep a gun out of a persons hands who is dead set on getting one to kill people with? Lock them up for a crime they hadn't commit yet?

@Older Than Dirt you seem to give decent legal opinons. If a person was suspected of planning a mass shooting, can there be charges of even attempted murder if they could prove Intent. Just like if you break into a house with the intention to commit burglary, even if you don't burglarize the house but still get caught, you are charged with burglary.
 
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roguetrader

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I live in England - over here guns are difficult to get hold of legal or illegal - we also have very few spree killers shooting up schools / malls etc - I can think of 2 in the last 30 years....

I've never been to the States but I get the impression that guns are everywhere, legal and illegal - you also seem to have people shooting up schools / malls on the regular..

so am I being too simplistic when I say surely it's the widespread availability of guns that leads to these shootings ? you can tinker with the law all you like but with that much firepower lying around these killings seem inevitable - a psycho can find weapons quickly and easily...

I know that many Americans hold the 'Right to Bear Arms' as sacred but over here we have very few guns and get on just fine without them....
 
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Juan Derlust

Juan Derlust

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It's one of those legacy issues, a root part of this country's heritage that will never go away. We seem to agree there's no real legislative solution. Buyback programs are limited, regardless how generous. Access to guns isn't unique to this country - I'm curious what in particular U.S. culture makes it so prominent with these gun-related mass-casualty events (as opposed to 'stampede' mass-casualty events I occasionally read about elsewhere)

 
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nivoldoog

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Fact: as gun ownership goes up crime rates drop
Fact: more crime is prevented by a civilian with a gun then by police.
Opinion: Ban "Gun free zones"
Opinion: make it law to own a gun, know how to use it and tax anyone that opts out of having a gun.
 

Coywolf

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Fact: as gun ownership goes up crime rates drop
Fact: more crime is prevented by a civilian with a gun then by police.
Opinion: Ban "Gun free zones"
Opinion: make it law to own a gun, know how to use it and tax anyone that opts out of having a gun.

Ahhh. Not sure all of that is fact. Why would you tax people for not owning a gun, what would that accomplish?

We need to make standardized training mandatory with gun purchases, and pay for it via taxing gun sales.
 

Glass Roads

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It's a very complicated issue, and I can empathize with both sides. At the end of the day, everyone just wants themselves and their loved ones to be safe. Whether it's from desperate people, mentally ill people, or governments, and regardless of their stance on gun regulations. I really have to shake my head at people on FB or insta that try to sum up the complexity of this issue in some clever antagonizing meme stance.
Though I'm much more worried about why so many people are in such a state where they take so many lives, and why it takes masses of people dying for society to think about that. People are so dam alienated and disconnected from each other in modern society. I don't perfer a world where everyone is safe, but still mentally ill and/or desperate.
 

SlankyLanky

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Fact: as gun ownership goes up crime rates drop
Fact: more crime is prevented by a civilian with a gun then by police.
Opinion: Ban "Gun free zones"
Opinion: make it law to own a gun, know how to use it and tax anyone that opts out of having a gun.
Please provide legitimate sources if you want to cite "facts". This is a topic I think most folks would want to see some form of proof before believing things written simply because somebody typed fact before their claim.

I was unable to find any info that said in any way whatsoever that simply owning a gun reduced crime.
 

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