God, Truth and Perception | Squat the Planet

God, Truth and Perception

Argus

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It's said that at the center of every lie in a kernel of truth. It is my belief that every truth is incased in a shall of lies. Incased, but not trapped. It must be mined, sifted and extracted and eventually, with enough decrement, a precious piece truth is reached.

Human beings are like broken mirrors portraying a distorted reflection of a perfect Truth. Truth being the perception of God. This Truth is what I believe to be objective reality - rather, things as they really are, verses subjective reality which is experienced through our five senses and seen through our inner mental filters that are shaped by our past conditioning.

Although it is possible to perceive objectively we cannot take in the totality of reality and say anything about it; we can only point to some of its characteristics. So whenever we explore reality in any specific manner, we have to leave out something. For example, when you describe an orange, you cannot say anything about its totality. You have to talk about its color or its taste or its shape. If you want your description to encompass the whole thing -- its color, shape, and taste all together -- you can only say, "orange." It's the same with objective reality. If you want to say anything about it, you have to focus on its specific characteristics. Import that idea into the concept of God, and you're in for quite the mind-fuck.


What are your thoughts, questions, expoundations, disagreements, or comments?
 

adragonfly

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i know what you said is pretty much a joke veggiguy ( and if it isn't, my bad haha) but i do believe god is responsible for all the terrible shit in our world, just as much he is responsible for all the good things. He loves everything so much that he gives everything with a consciousness the power to manifest its dream. For example, plants want to grow and survive, so god provided its growth. for plants its pretty easy, since they only want to do very few thing, grow and reproduce. For humans its a lot more complex what we desire since we desire so many things, especially now-a-days when some people desire to look skinny over surviving (anorexia) and god also provides that motivation. God realizes the desire for a murderer, and god realizes the desire for mother teresa. God loves everything so unconditionally, that when someone becomes emotionally hurt and doesn't want to see love and god, god will realize that desire.

im still working on this philosophy. I can't say i believe it, i just have a couple of jigsaw pieces and this is one of them. and it hasn't connected to any other pieces i have yet. :/
 

veggieguy12

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Actually, I read a novel that suggested that God exists and is very jealous of humans for several reasons: we are temporary and mortal, we can leave this planet and rest in death, we have bodies to provide sensations, sights, touch, we can have sex, feel pleasure and pain; God is immortal and without any physical presence.
Because God hates us out of sheer jealousy, God infects minds and enables atrocities against people and this planet we need for survival.

In defense of that notion, the numerous failed attempts to kill Hitler are detailed throughout the book - there was one of God's greatest agents of harm and destruction, wreaking death on a massive scale, perhaps unprecedented. And he survived over and over, shootings, bombings - nothing did more than come close getting him.
He was continually protected by God's grace, it would seem...
 

Argus

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veggieguy12, I'm assuming you've never heard of Jesus?
Because the one of the concepts of christianity is that God became a man and added to himself humanity.

Human body, human emotions, human experiences.
It changes everything.
 

macks

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Are you trying to use the "we can't ever comprehend or communicate true reality"/"what is reality anyway man....." idea to back up the existence of God/Jesus? If so, how does that make any sense? Just a little confused here.
 

Argus

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Macks, I believe you're question is answered in the OP, if not can you be more specific?

The OP suggests Theism, but is still miles away from Christianity.

I made another thread regarding Objective Reality and Relative/Subjective (I'm not sure if there's a difference or not) Reality.
I should note that Ayn Rand was a bit psychotic, but I think the core of her philosophical system has some validity.
 

macks

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Well, after reading your original post I was confused by your reply to veggieguy. Where do God and Jesus fit in to ideas of how we define reality?
 

MeatyMax

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Actually, I read a novel that suggested that God exists and is very jealous of humans for several reasons: we are temporary and mortal, we can leave this planet and rest in death, we have bodies to provide sensations, sights, touch, we can have sex, feel pleasure and pain; God is immortal and without any physical presence.
Because God hates us out of sheer jealousy, God infects minds and enables atrocities against people and this planet we need for survival.


The gnostics believe something along these lines. That the God that created this world was an evil one. Similarly, Albert Pike talked about how if this God was all good, there would be no need to "fear God's mite". Generally people praise a mean God to stay on his good side and not piss him off. Granted some say that Pike and Freemasons are nothing more then satan worshipers but thats a different topic.

I agree with the difficulties of explaining reality. And that any explaining of it is just a humans attempt at doing so. Even science is just some humans understanding of the world that fits into this method that they have created. Think of dark matter, a term that describes this stuff that seems to be pushing matter apart. Science has no way of seeing or even measuring that its there they just know it is. According to recent hypothesis, dark matter makes up 95% of the universe! that means that science can only talk about 5% of "reality". That being said i am very open to anyones idea of reality, man some pink dolphins from jujuban are your saviors and have provided you with happiness in this "reality" well more power to ya.
 

veggieguy12

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veggieguy12, I'm assuming you've never heard of Jesus?
Because the one of the concepts of christianity is that God became a man and added to himself humanity.

Well, y'know what "They" say about assuming - in this instance, it turns out to be un-true!
I never did hear of this Jesus fellow you reference, but after a bit of researching online, it seems that he's supposed to have lived for about 30 years before he was executed, by the Romans, around 2009 years ago. His existence hasn't been conclusively proven, but it is generally and widely accepted.
He was supposedly born by a virgin mother, though he still needed the normal 10-months time in the womb to develop, and he was a pretty unremarkable Jew of time/region until he returned from some Eastern excursion, about which little is known.
Anyway, there are a lot of specious claims about his actions (ridiculous miracle stories abound - all totally unconfirmed, of course), and he never gained much following until way after he was dead, but basically, there branched a segment of Jews who called themselves Christians, because he was the christened one.

And somehow, despite the billions of dollars spent to promote this guy and tell varying iterations of his life and its meaning, and in spite of the billion Christians on the planet, I never did hear of it! Thank you!

And therefore, the idea behind that novel I mentioned couldn't even be considered?
 

freepizzaforlife

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you ever wonder if there is actually any reliable sources that the people existed, and the events described in the bible really happened? for all we know, it could of been a few random guys high on opium, who decided to write a fucking story. how can this shit even be depicted into english? the bible changes so fucking much. im high off my ass right now, saw this and stopped asking questions. sure its a spiritual belief. but shouldnt people grow up a bit and come to a realization that mabye this book of "truth" is 100 percent bullshit, and that people should start beliving/thinking for theirselves and the members of their community? insted of some fucking dude, we dont even know if he actually existed's story.

jesus got nailed.
 

Gypsybones

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Consider this

One is amazed and even astonished, when considering the million people whom nowadays they profess to be of the spiritual lineage of the a being called Christ. For if one was from outer space and able to view life on this planet a century or so, one might observe this:

The Christians are the wealthiest humans of the third Planet. They seem to be the most violent humanoids, having brought about two world wars, tens of thousands of murders, and millions of rapes, assaults, and lynching. They are the only group that has dropped an atomic bomb against other not-Christian people. Also they are the unique ones which they have colonized and enslaved whole races of other human beings (Africans, indeed the bulk of the not-Christian world) and has committed genocide on an unsurpassed scale (America Indians and the Jews, for example). One of its nations, in which great amounts of Christians have settled down, called America, cages and imprisons more people per-capita that any other Nation state.
They destroy and fail to replenish enormous expanses of land to secure great amounts of paper, called money.
Their cities have vast numbers of people who live in the street, who they call "homeless".

This extraterrestrial perspective seemed facetious, but it allows us to ask questions that challenge that body of human kind that claims to be of the spiritual lineage of the Jewish carpenter of Nazareth.

Isn't is odd that in this nation the majority of the Christian adherence, claim to adore and pray a being who was prisoner of the Roman power, a inmate of the empires "death row" That the one that they consider the personification of the creator of the universe was tortured, humiliated, beaten, and crucified in a barren scrap of land, in the imperial periphery, at Golgotha (the place of the skull)

That majority of its inhabitants called adherence to the crucified God, strenuously support the execution by the State of thousands of its jailed citizens? That the overwhelming majority of its judges, prosecutors, and lawyers, those who condemn, and prosecute, sell out the condemned. Claim to be followers of the fettered, spat upon, naked God.

Of whom we are speaking: the Baal de Babylon, Jupiter of Rome, or the Christ of the Christendom?
After the passage of two millennia, How can even envision a future where life is safe to live, where the seas, the air, the very sun doesn't threatened extinction?

How far the ideal from the real, how many of us who's god is mammon have sold out the worth of this wonders Earth for a shiny token? In how many of us can the voice of God be heard amid the tinkle of coins and rustle of paper?
 

macks

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Damn, well worded and thoughtful reply. You just made this thread like one hundred times better! Gold star!
 

bote

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Heaven´s Falls, picture you Holly rollin´ !

(not to trivialize your content, which was valid and tasty)




Argus, this seems to be your ¨kernel of truth¨ the one you mentioned is ¨Incased in a shall of lies¨:

Truth being the perception of God. This Truth is what I believe to be objective reality - rather, things as they really are

so... what you believe is the truth, and the truth is GOD? and that´s how things really are?

as Macks pointed out, that doesn´t explain a thing, it just tells us what your (unfounded at least as far as this thread goes) personal beliefs are.
You have a belief in a god character based on faith, I wouldn´t call that ¨miles from christianity¨

fyi, ¨expoundations¨ is not a word in the english language and ¨decrement¨ does not imply distillation, but rather reduction.

So that what you in fact said in your intro, was that one should take the information at hand, then make it smaller and smaller until it´s just an indistinguishable speck, then presto: ¨import that idea into the concept of god¨

mindfuck indeed.
And as good a word as any to describe my opinion of the interrelation of God, Truth and Perception.
 

Ravie

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Ah, I love religious debates. They never end in a conclusion because it's impossible to find one...
 

Argus

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you ever wonder if there is actually any reliable sources that the people existed, and the events described in the bible really happened? for all we know, it could of been a few random guys high on opium, who decided to write a fucking story. how can this shit even be depicted into english?
jesus got nailed.


You are an ignorant, uneducated fool - respectively.

The bible has a mass amount of secular historical validity.
 

bote

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...and continuing with the grammar lessons, what you meant to say was respectfully, not respectively.
Respectively would serve to attribute the adjectives to different subjects, so unless you are suggesting that freepizzaforlife is in fact multiple personalities, one of whom is ignorant and another of whom is uneducated, then your sentence doesn`t make any sense.


And then your second sentence:
You may remember a rap duo from the mid-nineties called Gangstarr, produced by DJ Premier and fronted by a guy named Guru, who prided himself on kicking the knowledge and who would try to use big unwieldy words to describe mundane ideas, the end result sounding like he was really into the thesaurus, much along the lines of what we have here.

His shit rhymed though and he had a dope monotone style, plus you can`t really go wrong with a Primo beat.
 

macks

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You are an ignorant, uneducated fool - respectively.

Now now, name calling never gets us anywhere.

The bible has a mass amount of secular historical validity.

Proof?

And could you answer my question below about how God and Jesus fit in to your original post? I still don't understand the point of this thread.
 

yarn and glue

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Heh heh heh heh heh. I like you.


...and continuing with the grammar lessons, what you meant to say was respectfully, not respectively.
Respectively would serve to attribute the adjectives to different subjects, so unless you are suggesting that freepizzaforlife is in fact multiple personalities, one of whom is ignorant and another of whom is uneducated, then your sentence doesn`t make any sense.


And then your second sentence:
You may remember a rap duo from the mid-nineties called Gangstarr, produced by DJ Premier and fronted by a guy named Guru, who prided himself on kicking the knowledge and who would try to use big unwieldy words to describe mundane ideas, the end result sounding like he was really into the thesaurus, much along the lines of what we have here.

His shit rhymed though and he had a dope monotone style, plus you can`t really go wrong with a Primo beat.
 

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