I bought an RV

autumn · Feb 23, 2017

charmander said:
If you're burning that much oil you'll see it and not just when you open the oil cap you aren't seeing smoke out the exhaust? If you don't have excessive smoke get it up to temperature and put cardboard under it as leave it idlr a while the little leak you see running at temperature could be losing that much oil.

Is the engine bay smoky when you open it or you get any weird smells in the car? You have no overheating? good power? Compression?

It could still just be head gasket even with no coolant missing / in oil or valve seals and pcv like you said worth doing anyway. I'd be surprised if you need a top end rebuild.

Probably with all the new oil you added it skews it a bit but what did the oil you changed out look like?

todd said:
those few drops of oil when you park could very well be a lot more when your at full revs and oil pressure at cruising speeds. just like another said, if there's no smoke or burning oil smell in your exhaust id be willing to bet there's a gasket or O-ring leaking somewhere on the engine. it will leak more when the engine is at full speed and temperature. there's only a few places the oil can go. into the coolant section, out on the ground, or out the tailpipe.
good luck and keep us posted.

@charmander & @todd

I took it up to an auto shop that has a reputation for doing good work on old engines. They said they could diagnose it within a few days for an hour of labor. He took a look at the engine and he said it was both leaking and burning. Said it might be something simple and easy but there's no way to know until they take a look at it, and if it's not a gasket/distributor oring or something they'll have to pull the block. He said if they have to pull the engine out it'd be an hour and a half (so $110) at most. Seems pretty good to me, the place across the street said they'd diagnose it for $300 and wouldn't get to it until April. I also called some dipstick who told me that a smoking oil cap means that it's done and I have to buy a remanufactured engine..from him presumably.

He said it's definitely burning oil, when I was revving it in neutral with the doors open I could smell it in the exhaust too. He said it doesn't look like it's burning enough oil to go through a quart every 600 miles. I asked him about exactly what you said, if the leak would get worse when at operating temperatures and he said probably. If it's going out of the tailpipe I'm guessing (with my very limited understanding of engines) that means it's just going mostly out of the exhaust valve.. which is better than it heading anywhere else, I'd think. Maybe not in terms of the source of the issue, but in terms of collateral damage.

Grubblin said:
I forgot to post this earlier but valve cover gaskets are notorious for oil leaks and they're cheap and easy to change. I would start looking there for the oil leak. If you have the time you may want to just change them out whether you can tell if they're leaking or not. The problem with diagnosing an oil leak is that the oil gets everywhere making the source difficult to pinpoint. Apologies if this has already been posted.

Yeah it's good advice and it's a pain in the ass to find. I wasn't able to find it myself even after using some brake cleaner to wipe the engine down. I wonder if there's some kind of dye that you can put in oil to find a leak... I know they do that for AC systems with an ultraviolet dye. Probably wouldn't work with oil because it would just get combusted yeh?

Grubblin said:
If you could find a dyno to test the used motor you could be reasonably sure of what you were getting. If forgot to add that part. Buying your own parts is definitely the way to go if you can afford it.

That's a really good point and I think I might go that route if the engine is fucked. Buying a bunch of parts and having it rebuilt is still expensive as hell, not as expensive as a long block... but maybe getting a good engine and swapping them is the way to go, like you said.

kecleon · Feb 23, 2017

Yeah 110 is a great deal for that in my eyes, you'd never get close to that here. Hope it's an easy fix otherwise at least you can get a better picture what you need.

Kim Chee · Feb 23, 2017

The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.

More classic than classy.

Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.

Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.

Grubblin · Feb 23, 2017

There is an oil dye that you can use, I'm not sure if it's UV or not.

autumn · Feb 23, 2017

Kim Chee said:
The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.

More classic than classy.

Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.

Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.

Very good point, luckily I had the sense to ask them that and they said in total an hour and a half of labor, I asked them if that means I'll pay the hour and a half and it will be in the same condition as when I dropped it off, as in I could drive it away, and they said yes. I recorded the interaction with my phone in my overalls' breast pocket because mechanics are usually crooked motherfuckers and I always feel the need to be prepared to go to small claims.

They could be full of shit but if I show them the video I doubt they'd refuse to release the vehicle for the stated $110. I think they'd be much more likely to pull the ol' "we broke a bolt and the seal on your head gasket, now you have new spark plugs, heres 8 hours of labor and $120 in parts". A brand new head gasket to go with my brand new flux capacitor.

Oh and I should clarify, they didn't say "pull the engine".. I think he meant pull the head off.

autumn · Feb 23, 2017

Kim Chee said:
The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.

More classic than classy.

Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.

Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.

Actually I just went back and watched the video and he said an hour and a half at most if they DIDN'T have to pull it off. That makes a lot more sense, doh.

Now I'm gonna have to give them a call tomorrow and make sure they don't do that...

Dmac · Feb 23, 2017

Did anyone mention taking it to an Auto Diagnostic center? They can usually give you a clear picture of what's going on, without pulling the engine. Last time I did it was like 60 or 80 bucks.

Kim Chee · Feb 23, 2017

Dmac said:
Did anyone mention taking it to an Auto Diagnostic center? They can usually give you a clear picture of what's going on, without pulling the engine. Last time I did it was like 60 or 80 bucks.

I mentioned diagnose waaaaay back early in the thread.

Yeah, great idea before tearing shit apart.

Dmac · Feb 23, 2017

@Kim Chee Yes, very good idea. I do that to any used car, before I buy. Many used car lots will deduct the cost of the diagnostic, if you end up buying the car. fyi

kecleon · Feb 24, 2017

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) that an 83 Toyota didn't have diagnostics. Also since he hasn't mentioned check engine light unless I missed it.

I thought the 110 was too pull the cylinder head which would be a great deal.. even if it was another 110 to put it back.

If it's 110 to poke around a bit it sounds about right a good/honest mechanic has a decent chance of figuring out yr problem.

Kim Chee · Feb 24, 2017

charmander said:
I thought the 110 was too pull the cylinder head which would be a great deal.. even if it was another 110 to put it back.

It would be if something were fixed, but it won't without extra money. Also, it takes at least 3x as long to put shit back together as it did to take it apart. So, putting it back together for $110 is just wishful thinking.

You don't need onboard diagnostics to diagnose a problem.

@zim, rent a compression tester, perform compression check and a leakdown check and try to diagnose the issue (everything I mentioned earlier).

While pulling plugs, number and inspect them (there is a chart which will tell you how to read them).

~The above will tell you a lot WITHOUT TAKING THE DAMN MOTOR APART~

Since you pulled the plugs, put different, newly gapped ones in unless the plugs you pulled look normal. They're cheap and you can use them in whatever motor or head they will go in later.

Did that shop tell you how much a new headgasket with new bolts was going to be? Yep, those things are normally replaced when pulling head.

Resurfacing the head?

Most shops can't do that work and it gets sent to a machine shop.

I'd hate to see such a low mile motor be tossed, but you may want to source a running used engine or rebuild if you can afford it.

Grubblin · Feb 24, 2017

You could also keep the engine that you have in it. Buy a used engine and rebuild it, while running the present engine, then swap them out when you get the second engine rebuilt. That way you have a ride to get around while the work is being done.

This is kind of a pipe dream, I guess. I've always wanted to do that with my truck but when I had the money and space, I didn't have the time. Now that I have the time I don't have the money or the space.

autumn · Feb 24, 2017

Kim Chee said:
It would be if something were fixed, but it won't without extra money. Also, it takes at least 3x as long to put shit back together as it did to take it apart. So, putting it back together for $110 is just wishful thinking.

You don't need onboard diagnostics to diagnose a problem.

@zim, rent a compression tester, perform compression check and a leakdown check and try to diagnose the issue (everything I mentioned earlier).

While pulling plugs, number and inspect them (there is a chart which will tell you how to read them).

~The above will tell you a lot WITHOUT TAKING THE DAMN MOTOR APART~

Since you pulled the plugs, put different, newly gapped ones in unless the plugs you pulled look normal. They're cheap and you can use them in whatever motor or head they will go in later.

Did that shop tell you how much a new headgasket with new bolts was going to be? Yep, those things are normally replaced when pulling head.

Resurfacing the head?

Most shops can't do that work and it gets sent to a machine shop.

I'd hate to see such a low mile motor be tossed, but you may want to source a running used engine or rebuild if you can afford it.

That's all great advice. The reason I didn't want to pull the plugs is that they look like they've never been changed and are probably being held together by carbon deposits. If they pull them at the shop I can at least force them to give me a discount if it falls apart. Same thing happened with my scooter, everything was being held together by burnt oil and when it got cranked it blew the piston apart. A little "you fucked it up buddy, I went in there with a running engine" goes a long way.

I called them this morning and put some pressure on the guy, he said he'd do the diagnostic for free and I have the call recorded. And I specifically told him not to pull the spark plugs if he doesn't think he can get them back in without breaking the engine. He said before he does any labor-costing work he'll give me a call and get my approval. When he does that I'm gonna go over there and get a written estimate so I'm on the right side of VA law and they can't fuck me. In VA, quoted work, in writing, can't exceed 20% of the original quote for vehicles older than 25 years. I'll file against them in small claims if I have to.

autumn · Feb 24, 2017

Grubblin said:
You could also keep the engine that you have in it. Buy a used engine and rebuild it, while running the present engine, then swap them out when you get the second engine rebuilt. That way you have a ride to get around while the work is being done.

This is kind of a pipe dream, I guess. I've always wanted to do that with my truck but when I had the money and space, I didn't have the time. Now that I have the time I don't have the money or the space.

I looked into that today and spoke to a few people in WV with 22Rs that they're selling. I'm keeping it open as an option

autumn · Feb 28, 2017

Kim Chee said:
The old "we'll pull it for $110" trick.

More classic than classy.

Ask them how much they will charge to put the damn thing back in like it was before they fucked with it.

Good luck with crooked fuckers like that.

God damnit @Kim Chee, you were completely right. They're a bunch of cheating, lying motherfuckers. They haven't done anything yet, thankfully, but the guy lied to me about what he said. When I called him out on it he tried to continue the conversation as if nothing had happened.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow and I'm not paying them shit. Better yet, I'll snatch it in the middle of the night and go get my keys back tomorrow in case they try to pull some shit.

Dmac · Feb 28, 2017

That sucks Dude. Good luck with that!

autumn · Mar 1, 2017

I'm just playing mechanic roulette right now. If I had an air compressor I'd do the leakdown test and wait for my service manual in the mail but if I can get a mechanic to diagnose the issue for an hour of labor that's good too, and I can just verify it on my own.

Despite my own incompetence I'm heavily leaning towards just doing all the work myself. I've gotta learn sometime but I was hoping it would be with a fully functioning engine, replacing little parts like the starter and working my way up from there - not my first project being pulling the head, honing the cylinders, replacing the pistons, water pump oil pump timing chain, having to redo the timing myself.

Kim Chee · Mar 1, 2017

Maybe somebody with skills can show up.

There's got to be a few 22r's out there.

Not sure if you can get 22re to work without serious modification, worth looking into though.

autumn · Mar 2, 2017

Kim Chee said:
Maybe somebody with skills can show up.

There's got to be a few 22r's out there.

Not sure if you can get 22re to work without serious modification, worth looking into though.

Maybe, heh. I just spoke to a guy a hundred miles from me who said he's a retired mechanic and would help me with a rebuild. I asked around online and the consensus from mechanics seems to be that doing a ring job with no experience or proper diagnosis to fix mysterious oil burning is a bad idea.

I have an air compressor now and ordered a decent compression tester and leakdown kit, as well as a factory service manual which will be here on Friday. The factory service manual is a hundred dollars, but fulfilled by Amazon. When I receive it I will return "it"; my 10 cent Chilton's manual. Whoever's unpacking the box won't give enough of a shit to discern the difference.

Lesson learned: harbor freight is crap for everything except cheaply casted non-precision tools. And I've ended up spending way more money than I wanted to on the compression/leakdown kits and a quality torque wrench.

Crossing my fingers and hoping the engine doesn't implode after removing the ancient spark plugs.

Kim Chee · Mar 2, 2017

Pb blaster might help with the plugs.

Good luck.

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